Author Topic: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA  (Read 2232 times)

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Offline wolfy

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XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« on: May 02, 2018, 11:37:48 AM »
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 11:52:23 AM »
I don't see overnights going without some problems.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 03:18:04 PM »

 They've been going more and more politically correct for years,  this is the icing on the cake for me,  I'll no longer be supporting the organization in the future,  in my opinion their future is in the crapper, and it's well deserved.
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 03:54:53 PM »
Robert Baden-Powell is rolling in his grave.  A major crock of .   >:(
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 04:15:25 PM »
I am still active in scouts and I am not sure where I stand. My question is about the motivation.  If the changes were done because "they" believe the program has something to off all kids, (it does ) I am OK with it.  However if it was motivated by money any they intend to make unessary changes then I have a problem. For years the BSA ( what are the going to call it now? The SA ) has had Venturing that is CoEd and as I understand it the whole organization has been COED in Europe for years. Not that we should follow them.
I have already meet a few female scouts, they were active and good kids.
What a great day to be outside.

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 04:55:26 PM »
They should have consulted with us former boy scouts. I believe it is about money. It weakens the girl scout program. I will no longer support the boy scout program and see huge problems in the future. Overnight campouts are going to be problematic, a bunch of young boys with young girls who hormones are out of control.

The girl scouts have a big problem with this and I do not blame them.  We have sponsored more than a few local boys going to Philmont, not any more.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 05:01:26 PM by Orbean »
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 08:05:01 PM »
I have given this some more thought. I believe I am against it but not sure the best course. I also believe The boys of today  need scouting and I have things to teach and pass along.  Walking away is not going to change the situation.
I am in the process of giving our troop the personal fitness merit badge,  I am saddened by the condition of the boys. I believe by next year the requirements with change to accommodate the girls,  I will not change what I expect.
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 01:18:52 PM »
follow the money.  This is all about revenue.  At it's worst,  letting in girls is probably better than when they let in the NAMBLA predators.
Bottom line is that BSA is,  and has been, done for a long time.  A dying  organization that has outlived it's usefulness.

Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 04:23:46 PM »
I disagree with out lived it's usefulness.  I think it is need more not then in the last 50 years.
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 04:49:15 PM »
as for the kids of the inner city ghettoes, scouting is needed more than ever but I must say
I feel we have already lost an entire generation of youth,
to socialism, goverment schools, gangs dope blah blah.
sadly i never made it to philmont but did go to owassipi in michigan
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Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 05:32:28 PM »
I disagree with out lived it's usefulness.  I think it is need more not then in the last 50 years.

I totally agree. There is a huge need for the values that traditional scouting teaches, the experiences it provides, and the friendships it creates. The real meat and potatoes, the backbone of scouting are the volunteers, scout leaders, parents and other family members. The decision to admit girls should have came from them that and us older scouts. I would love to know what the balance sheet of BSA looks like.

Maybe something will come from the eventual ashes, a national  boys organization modeled after what used to be. I still have many of my patches, unfortunately lost my sash with all my badges, not that there were a lot of them, I was a lazy boy scout and would usually wait till summer camp to earn mine. I would go twice, I am guessing my parents saw it as sweet relief and money well spent. In my study with all my books, are a good collection of my merit badge books and when I die they will be in my possessions.

I came up from the bottom, cub scout, my mom a den leader even after I went to weabalos; my dad was treasurer and begged and bugged money from the other parents to help fund our fun. I went with dozen of other boy scouts to see the movie   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follow_Me,_Boys!, man that was one hyped out group, I swear we could have beaten back Hitler ourselves. Looking for sky lab to fall among the millions of stars, man I still remember and feel the night, I could not have been more than twelve. If I could go back to any point in my life it would that age, when I was in scouts.
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 04:38:21 PM »

Well said and a very good youtube channel.
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 09:54:28 PM »
The girls have been asking their girl scout leaders for years "Why can't we do some of the fun stuff, like the boy scouts do?" The girls were treated like 1950's girls were treated. It was fine in the 50's but not any more. They want to do the camping, hiking, climbing, fire starting, learn knots and all the fun stuff the boys do. Is that a bad thing? The Girls Scouts dropped the ball. They did not listen to their young scouts and now they have lost some of them.

"girls" are now fighter pilots, combat veterans, and many occupations that were strictly male in years past. To do their best they could use the skills taught by Scouting. These are our sons and daughters. They all deserve a solid base to build on and Boy scouts can do that if we, the volunteers, will give the girls a fair chance.

The girls may be short on upper body strength, but they are long on details. They can listen to multiple simultaneous conversations and process them all. The have a better natural situational awareness. In the wild that is valuable. Girls cry easily when things don't go right. When it's over, it's over. Guys usually throw some kind of tantrum when things don't go right. When it's over, it's over. One is not better then the other, just different.

Don't sell these girls short. If you give them the opportunity, they can bring good things to camp. The Girl Scouts have already let them down. Do the volunteers in the day to day trenches want to reject them too? Or give our daughters the same foundation to life and citizenship as our sons.

If you think girls will ruin the scouting program, maybe your scouting program wasn't developing the well rounded scouts you thought it was.

I heard a story a couple days ago. When his daughter came home from college, she was frustrated because her boyfriend wouldn't take her hunting with him. Dad asked her "You want to go hunting?" She said she always wanted to go, since she was just little, but was to scared and shy to ask.
Dad felt bad is an understatement.

Where do you stand with your daughters? Do they deserve to be bullied out of a good Scouting program?

Flame shields are up and active, so have at it.  :soap: but I prefer  :fire1:


Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 05:54:52 AM »
I'll agree the Girl Scout org dropped the ball.  The girls I grew up with always wanted to do what the boys were doing.  No matter how icky or gross or ungirly it was (The lady dost protest too much, methinks.).  None of the boys wanted to be a girl scout.  But there must be a better way to mentor the girls than tearing down the Boy Scouts.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 05:58:15 AM »
girl scouts sold out to political correctness and radical feminism years ago.  They push a pro gay,  pro abortion program in partnership with Planned Parenthood.
BSA,  at the national leadership level has been going in the same direction for years. 

Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2018, 07:11:56 AM »
The girls have been asking their girl scout leaders for years "Why can't we do some of the fun stuff, like the boy scouts do?" The girls were treated like 1950's girls were treated. It was fine in the 50's but not any more. They want to do the camping, hiking, climbing, fire starting, learn knots and all the fun stuff the boys do. Is that a bad thing? The Girls Scouts dropped the ball. They did not listen to their young scouts and now they have lost some of them.

"girls" are now fighter pilots, combat veterans, and many occupations that were strictly male in years past. To do their best they could use the skills taught by Scouting. These are our sons and daughters. They all deserve a solid base to build on and Boy scouts can do that if we, the volunteers, will give the girls a fair chance.

The girls may be short on upper body strength, but they are long on details. They can listen to multiple simultaneous conversations and process them all. The have a better natural situational awareness. In the wild that is valuable. Girls cry easily when things don't go right. When it's over, it's over. Guys usually throw some kind of tantrum when things don't go right. When it's over, it's over. One is not better then the other, just different.

Don't sell these girls short. If you give them the opportunity, they can bring good things to camp. The Girl Scouts have already let them down. Do the volunteers in the day to day trenches want to reject them too? Or give our daughters the same foundation to life and citizenship as our sons.

If you think girls will ruin the scouting program, maybe your scouting program wasn't developing the well rounded scouts you thought it was.

I heard a story a couple days ago. When his daughter came home from college, she was frustrated because her boyfriend wouldn't take her hunting with him. Dad asked her "You want to go hunting?" She said she always wanted to go, since she was just little, but was to scared and shy to ask.
Dad felt bad is an understatement.

Where do you stand with your daughters? Do they deserve to be bullied out of a good Scouting program?

Flame shields are up and active, so have at it.  :soap: but I prefer  :fire1:

  I agree with everything you've said in your post,  but in my opinion it's not the responsibility of the Traditional BSA to pick up the slack,  that said,  the Traditional organization has not existed for a long time,  it has become just one more victim of political correctness,  the national leadership rather than stay true to the tradition and values that grew the BSA from it's initial roots as a Faith based Boys organization to one that no longer allows knives, axes, shooting sports, or encourages many the wilderness skills it once did,  it's now an organization that accepts (right or wrong) and encourages a dumbing down of the masculine image, and accepts Gay and Lesbian leaders and members,  which is an argument for another time, but still a major diversion from the original intent of Baden Powel.
 As far as women in Scouting or any other endeavor,  they have come a long way and again in my opinion have earned every inch of ground that they have achieved,  as you have pointed out, women today fill rolls as airline and combat pilots,  fight next to men in combat, lead huge corporations, are fire fighters and police officers, and are very good at it,  but they did it on their own,  there's no reason why they couldn't get the Girl Scouts Organization to change it's  focus from creating housewives to creating strong young women who want to become more adept at wilderness skills and come into 21st century womanhood.
 Both organizations have dropped the ball, shame on them,  and shame on the parents who let it happen.     
     
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2018, 07:24:39 AM »
These are the seeds brought to us by a Godless anti Christian United Nations,
this is all part of a program i read about in the ninties,
It has to do with planet wide depopulation, It is being done on many fronts
and many ways, this is the end result of where this is all going.ever hear of margrate sanger
she was a close friend of Bill Gates father she she was into poplulation control in the 30's.
many of the human experiments done by the nazis in the 30's were learned right here in america. Think about it.
long before there was even a United nations.

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 09:12:34 AM »
Sounds like Boy Scouts has gone off the rails. Baden Powel may have more to keep him spinning in his grave than just the addition of females to the organization.

I seem to remember something about an alternative organization a few years ago. One that would pick up the slack from the shortages of the BSA. Does anyone know anything about this or have experience with it? Maybe there is another option for the boys.

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2018, 10:55:23 AM »
Sounds like Boy Scouts has gone off the rails. Baden Powel may have more to keep him spinning in his grave than just the addition of females to the organization.

I seem to remember something about an alternative organization a few years ago. One that would pick up the slack from the shortages of the BSA. Does anyone know anything about this or have experience with it? Maybe there is another option for the boys.

I can see the need for the girl scouts to have more outdoor activities. Times have changed and  so have what girls and young women do recreationally I get that. Co-ed is okay with me up to a certain age, but as their little brains develop and they grow their needs are different. The fact, and it is a fact imo, that the girl scouts have dropped the ball in the area of sports and other outdoor activities lays at the feet of their national organization. Both scouting organizations have been failed by their national leadership and have most likely helped them to their demise, which I am thinking is sooner than later, don't think BSA will have a two hundred year celebration.

Boys need to carry knives, shoot guns, bows and slingshots, and i know of more than a couple of girls that do also. Give either one of these young ladies the choice of an outdoor oreintated girl scout troop or a boy scout one they will pick the girl scouts, no doubt in my mind. Boys and girls learn different, just compare their attention spans at any given age from in my experience age five and up. I believe the next thing the national idiots will do is start girl only troops, i will take money on it.
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 01:20:43 AM »
Trail Life USA comes to mind as an alternative. But the theme song from Green Acres keeps running through my mind.  :D

Did you know that Lord Baden Powel's sister Agnes, started the Girl Guides? I suspect he was on board with providing guidance for the girls too.

in 1912 he wrote: ?The secret of sound education is to get each pupil to learn for himself, instead of instructing him by driving knowledge into him on a stereotyped system.?

I like what he wrote to the Boy Scouts in his last letter to them in 1937. Quote ?I have had a most happy life and I want each one of you to have a happy life too. I believe that God put us in this jolly world to be happy and enjoy life. Happiness does not come from being rich, nor merely being successful in your career, nor by self-indulgence.?

   Lord Baden-Powel      Unquote

By his measure, I should be a pretty happy fellow. I guess I am.  :banana: :rofl: :lol:                 :tent:


Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 09:59:31 AM »
This has been an interesting and revealing discussion. :coffee:      I found this Wiki article that gives insight on how, why, when & what lead the B.S.A to be in its present state of unrest.  Mannlicher simply said, "follow the money," but what money is there to follow?  It's easy to see why they are in dire straits financially, when one takes into consideration all of their former BIG MONEY supporters that deserted them in their hour of need.  Pitiful! :-\

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies

EDIT:  Forgot to add the link. :-[  :P
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:35:32 PM by wolfy »
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Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 02:52:37 PM »
This has been an interesting and revealing discussion. :coffee:      I found this Wiki article that gives insight on how, why, when & what lead the B.S.A to be in its present state of unrest.  Mannlicher simply said, "follow the money," but what money is there to follow?  It's easy to see why they are in dire straits financially, when one takes into consideration all of their former BIG MONEY supporters that deserted them in their hour of need.  Pitiful! :-\

  Do you have a link to that Wiki article, I'd be interested in reading it,  I started my Boy Scouting experience at 11 years old, went into the Explorer Scouts, then went on to become a involved as a Scout leader when my sons joined up, I enjoyed my time in the BSA very much and I am saddened that the cultural change that has taken over our country has claimed another great institution as a victim in it's assault on tradition,  Faith,  and our American values.
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 03:05:51 PM »
   Just throwing this out there as a "maybe" to the question of is there an alternative.

   My SIL and BIL home school through their church.  All three kids have had great peer interaction and sound mentorship.  They have all had the pick of the crop of colleges.  None of the parents that I know of have much camping experience or bush skills.  I think it would be a great vehicle to reach these kids with a love of the outdoors.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 04:38:29 PM »
This has been an interesting and revealing discussion. :coffee:      I found this Wiki article that gives insight on how, why, when & what lead the B.S.A to be in its present state of unrest.  Mannlicher simply said, "follow the money," but what money is there to follow?  It's easy to see why they are in dire straits financially, when one takes into consideration all of their former BIG MONEY supporters that deserted them in their hour of need.  Pitiful! :-\

  Do you have a link to that Wiki article, I'd be interested in reading it,  I started my Boy Scouting experience at 11 years old, went into the Explorer Scouts, then went on to become a involved as a Scout leader when my sons joined up, I enjoyed my time in the BSA very much and I am saddened that the cultural change that has taken over our country has claimed another great institution as a victim in it's assault on tradition,  Faith,  and our American values.

Sorry, Moe....my bad. :P    I forgot to add the link, so I edited my last post to add the link. :-[
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 11:48:24 PM »
The freedom of association, I guess, has always been too costly for the BSA to maintain its right to discriminate.
  As every issue got rolled out BSA rolled over.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2018, 01:05:30 AM »
If the Girl Scouts only exist to sell cookies and reinforce 50's gender roles then I'm glad the Boy Scouts are letting girls join.  We need more bushcrafters and more wilderness skills, not less. Good for them!

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 05:16:12 AM »
If the Girl Scouts only exist to sell cookies and reinforce 50's gender roles then I'm glad the Boy Scouts are letting girls join.  We need more bushcrafters and more wilderness skills, not less. Good for them!
 

That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed

BTW what the hell is a bushcrafter, i am certainly not one. It is a silly tag that means nothing, it is a made up word

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Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 07:31:08 AM »
If the Girl Scouts only exist to sell cookies and reinforce 50's gender roles then I'm glad the Boy Scouts are letting girls join.  We need more bushcrafters and more wilderness skills, not less. Good for them!

 I don't disagree with you on the subject that GSA has not answered the needs of modern day young women who are much more assertive and adventurous than they were in the mid 1900's,  nor do I disagree that letting them into the Boy Scouts is necessarily a bad thing on it's face.
 But there's a bigger picture here that is not being addressed in my opinion,  there are two sides to this adversarial debate,  there the Conservative view vs. the more progressive view on genders role in society, and I'm don't mean that in the political sense of either word.
 Among those things that define us as individuals and as humans and brings order to our existence is that we fulfill the roles in life that we were created to fill,  throughout time men and women filled different roles in society,  they were created physically and emotionally equipped to face different challenges and roles,  some would have us believe that the differences between men and women is an accident of evolution and nothing more, they tell us that we're all the same except for a few miss formed parts,  that couldn't be further from the truth.
 People of Faith and those who believe can argue until the end of time as to whether God exists or not, that another discussion for another time,  but most reasonable people will agree that religion in most of it's forms tends to teach morals and values not commonly proffered in Atheistic and Agnostic circles,  Having some sort of guiding force such as religion in society is a good thing compared to none at all.
 When it come to homosexuality and other cross gender issues I don't judge the choices or differences that define them,  I believe that each of us has to take what ever path in life that we feel we have to as long as it doesn't harm anyone else,  that said,  those difference are and probably always will be looked on as being out of the norm,  whether one has compassion for those who adhere to that kind of life style is not the question,  when those life style conflict with socially accepted norms it creates distractions and controversy,  which leads to division, hatred, and litigation which in the long run is not really good for anyone.
 Outside of the force put on the BSA by withholding economic support by major contributors a more subtle and devious agenda is being followed by those who want to create a secular society populated with unisex droids who strive for sameness, they have a genuine hatred for all things different,  individual thinking,  and most of all anything traditional.
 Personally, that not the type of world I care to live in, I enjoy being me,  I like being different than my friends and neighbors,  I like women to be kind, loving, caring, and emotional,  and I respect men who are not ashamed of their masculinity.
 IMHO there is a move globally to change all of the things that make each of us unique in this world,  to tear down traditional gender roles, destroy religious values,  and create a world of sameness, that why I think that some things should not be tampered with,  or we may find that the law of unintended consiquences may come around to take a huge bite out of our backsides. 
 Besides, if women really do crave the more adventurous side of scouting that involves wilderness skills and self reliance and have the where with all to get it done nothing should stop them from revamping the GSA to meet those needs instead of high jacking the BSA and riding their coat tails,  and nothing prevents both organizations from working together to make that happen without trying to meld men and woman into a single human unit. 
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 08:49:48 AM »

That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed


Orbean, Would you ask your sister what her assessment of girl scout camp is ,now that she has had a few years to evaluate it in hindsight?
Was it a good experience. Did she feel she was short changed by GSA compared to BSA camp? I ask because it would seem you are in a unique position to get a "Been there, done that." opinion from a former girl scout. 

Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM »
If the Girl Scouts only exist to sell cookies and reinforce 50's gender roles then I'm glad the Boy Scouts are letting girls join.  We need more bushcrafters and more wilderness skills, not less. Good for them!
 

That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed

BTW what the hell is a bushcrafter, i am certainly not one. It is a silly tag that means nothing, it is a made up word

  While a whole different discussion,  a lot of people who practice wilderness self reliance skills across the globe  while hiking, backpacking, and primitive camping would disagree with you that Bushcrafters don't exist and that the term Bushcraft is a silly made up tag.
  Also as evidence that you are seriously lacking in part of your knowledge of wilderness ways,  there are dozens of forums with tens of thousands of members who are practicing members of the bushcraft community all over the world,  there are countless web sites and U-Tube videos produced and devoted to Bushcrafting and the skills associated with it,  this very forum has it's roots in Bushcraft,  as you must certainly remember it's original name "Blades and Bushcraft" before the term was litigated and forced a change.
  The term started in Europe, spread to Australia,  was accepted in the USA, and has made it's way across the globe,  you personally may not like it, even find it offensive, though I can't fathom why it would be so irritating to you, it's makes no sense at all in my opinion.
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 11:46:42 AM »
Quote
as you must certainly remember it's original name "Blades and Bushcraft" before the term was litigated and forced a change.

'suggested that there might be a possibility of litigation'  might be more accurate.

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 03:47:55 PM »

That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed


Orbean, Would you ask your sister what her assessment of girl scout camp is ,now that she has had a few years to evaluate it in hindsight?
Was it a good experience. Did she feel she was short changed by GSA compared to BSA camp? I ask because it would seem you are in a unique position to get a "Been there, done that." opinion from a former girl scout.

She is the wrong person to ask, roughing it for her is the Best Western or Holliday Inn. LOL. This was discussed at dinner on Sunday and everyone thinks the boys scouts and girl scouts should be separate. She loved camp, but it was all about the crafts and fellowship; camping is not her thing. My step-daughter is the opposite, she loves camping, mt biking and hanging out with her step-dad. She plays sports, volleyball and soccer imo she represents what young girls do today. Our house is filled with young female jocks, including her mom. My stepdaughter did not take to girl scouts. I asked her about the current boy scout drama and she said no to joining a boy scout troop. She was interested in an all girls troop however.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 04:58:38 PM »


BTW what the hell is a bushcrafter, i am certainly not one. It is a silly tag that means nothing, it is a made up word

All words are made up. ;)

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 05:49:58 PM »


That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed


Orbean, Would you ask your sister what her assessment of girl scout camp is ,now that she has had a few years to evaluate it in hindsight?
Was it a good experience. Did she feel she was short changed by GSA compared to BSA camp? I ask because it would seem you are in a unique position to get a "Been there, done that." opinion from a former girl scout.

She is the wrong person to ask, roughing it for her is the Best Western or Holliday Inn. LOL. This was discussed at dinner on Sunday and everyone thinks the boys scouts and girl scouts should be separate. She loved camp, but it was all about the crafts and fellowship; camping is not her thing. My step-daughter is the opposite, she loves camping, mt biking and hanging out with her step-dad. She plays sports, volleyball and soccer imo she represents what young girls do today. Our house is filled with young female jocks, including her mom. My stepdaughter did not take to girl scouts. I asked her about the current boy scout drama and she said no to joining a boy scout troop. She was interested in an all girls troop however.

If I read that right, the step daughter did not take to girl scouts, does not want to join the boy scout troop, but would be interested in a all girls troop. I'm assuming she would be interested in an all girls troop with all the activities and functions of a boy scouts troop but without the testosterone. Sounds like a reasonable request. And an opportunity for a group of parents to either petition the existing girls scouts for a change of venue, or to start a new organization similar to Trail Life USA but for girls.

At one time there were 'subdivisions'? within the BSA of Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and Explorer or Venture Scouts. It sounds like there are girls within GSA that would do well in a troop focused on more adventurous endeavors. But, back to the basic problem: No one is listening to what the girls want.

If that is the case, is it Boy Scouts of America's duty to pick up the slack? Probably not. It lands squarely in the laps of the girls parents and GSA management.

Phew, glad I got that figured out for myself.  :coffee:


Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 06:11:50 PM »


That is bs that  the girl scouts have no  outdoor programs, it depends on the troop. My sister went to girl  scout camp every summer. IN the end very few girls will end up in boy troops, i just do not see it. Outdoor education does not have to be co-ed




Orbean, Would you ask your sister what her assessment of girl scout camp is ,now that she has had a few years to evaluate it in hindsight?
Was it a good experience. Did she feel she was short changed by GSA compared to BSA camp? I ask because it would seem you are in a unique position to get a "Been there, done that." opinion from a former girl scout.

She is the wrong person to ask, roughing it for her is the Best Western or Holliday Inn. LOL. This was discussed at dinner on Sunday and everyone thinks the boys scouts and girl scouts should be separate. She loved camp, but it was all about the crafts and fellowship; camping is not her thing. My step-daughter is the opposite, she loves camping, mt biking and hanging out with her step-dad. She plays sports, volleyball and soccer imo she represents what young girls do today. Our house is filled with young female jocks, including her mom. My stepdaughter did not take to girl scouts. I asked her about the current boy scout drama and she said no to joining a boy scout troop. She was interested in an all girls troop however.

If I read that right, the step daughter did not take to girl scouts, does not want to join the boy scout troop, but would be interested in a all girls troop. I'm assuming she would be interested in an all girls troop with all the activities and functions of a boy scouts troop but without the testosterone. Sounds like a reasonable request. And an opportunity for a group of parents to either petition the existing girls scouts for a change of venue, or to start a new organization similar to Trail Life USA but for girls.

At one time there were 'subdivisions'? within the BSA of Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and Explorer or Venture Scouts. It sounds like there are girls within GSA that would do well in a troop focused on more adventurous endeavors. But, back to the basic problem: No one is listening to what the girls want.

If that is the case, is it Boy Scouts of America's duty to pick up the slack? Probably not. It lands squarely in the laps of the girls parents and GSA management.

Phew, glad I got that figured out for myself.  :coffee:

My thoughts exactly. Neither organization on a national level are meeting the demands of young people, and these needs sorely need to be filled. Like i posted earlier, decisions need to be made a the local level, these are the individuals that know what the kids need. National should only take care of item that can not be done on a local level. The local councils  needs to dictate what happens, not the other way around.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 07:36:19 PM »
An interesting notion that the children should be deciding what it is they want to do. I thought Boy Scouts was predicated on the idea that a systematic guiding through boyhood was the best approach in developing healthy, happy men.

I gotta tell you though I know nothing about girl scouts program but I do somewhat object to the idea presented here that there is now a new sort of girl or 21st c. woman. I will agree that girls/women have a new focus, different ideas from "1950s" definitions of what being female means....which of course has a good deal to do with much of the confusion we see around us.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2018, 02:28:13 AM »
I think a certain kind of person is greatly confused by women with agency, that want to define for themselves what being a woman means.  But that strikes me as a personal problem and not something a woman should give a rip about. ;)  Every generation makes their own rules and creates their own world to a great degree.  And that's how it should be when you think about it.  The living ought not be slaves to the dreams of the long dead.

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2018, 02:53:05 AM »
Outside of the force put on the BSA by withholding economic support by major contributors a more subtle and devious agenda is being followed by those who want to create a secular society populated with unisex droids who strive for sameness, they have a genuine hatred for all things different,  individual thinking,  and most of all anything traditional.
 Personally, that not the type of world I care to live in, I enjoy being me,  I like being different than my friends and neighbors,  I like women to be kind, loving, caring, and emotional,  and I respect men who are not ashamed of their masculinity.
 IMHO there is a move globally to change all of the things that make each of us unique in this world,  to tear down traditional gender roles, destroy religious values,  and create a world of sameness, that why I think that some things should not be tampered with,  or we may find that the law of unintended consiquences may come around to take a huge bite out of our backsides.

I think you're a genuinely good and thoughtful person, Moe, and one of the posters that keeps me coming back to B&B.  But I think on some issues we have different views.  I don't see any move to "unisex drones".  Oh sure, there are a few noisy idiots on the left just like there are on the right, but the broad population is nothing like the caricature that you paint.  It's the bland, mindless sameness of traditional roles that stifles individuality.  I think young folks can see through a lot of the BS that we all get mired down in.  If you look around there are plenty of pictures of Teddy Roosevelt in a "dress"- the idea of male and female clothes for very young kids is a surprisingly modern invention.  Many of the Normal-Rockwell "values" never actually existed outside of commercials.  If a woman wants to get a job, great!  If she wants to get married, or not get married, I don't think her gender obligates her to make choices to satisfy the expectations of previous generations.  Because let's be honest- the current generation have shown little to no regard for what the generations that follow will have to deal with.

All of this nonsense about the 50's kind grinds my gears.  We have this persistent toxic nostalgia about a time that was pretty good for some and pretty bad for others.  Great if you came home from the war and had a good job.  Not so great if you weren't allowed to sit at the front of a bus or drink from the wrong fountain, or if you were legally barred from marrying a white woman.  And many of the gender roles we think are immutable were invented in the 50's by Madison Avenue.  An engagement ring costing two months salaries?  Not a cultural norm but invented by De Beers.  Women stay at home and raise the kids?  A few scant years prior to that they were building bombers and doing all the jobs men used to do.  Hell, back at the beginning of the 20th century my great grandmother was working along side my great grandfather, tending fields, herding cattle, etc.  I think my 70 year old mom could still outwork a lot of 50 year old men doing construction!

We tend to homogonize the past when we look through rose colored glasses.  I don't think we (meaning those between 50-75) really did a very good job as stewards of the world.  Nearly every problem we complain about today was created by us.  We were in control (collectively).

And I'm not sure to what degree anyone can reasonably be expected to live someone else's life.  Just as we made our own choices about the the kind of world we'd have, I think the younger folks have a right to have the same freedoms to choose that we did.  If not why continue to give lip service to the idea of freedom?

I'm not against traditions or values, but Americans are supposed to be free thinkers, not puppets or slaves to the past. Our country was founded by radicals largely in their 20's and early 30's, and based on some radical philosophies for the time.  The Founders blazed a trail but they didn't intend for us to slog along in a rut behind them.

I don't have kids.  I was a Boy Scout and liked the experience.  It's a shame the Girl Scouts seem to be designed to groom young women for the last century instead of the next one so I am fine with them joining the boys.  Obviously there are some challenges and potential pitfalls to be navigated but nothing insurmountable.

Probably the most worrying thing is that no one seems to be able to have a civil disagreement anymore.  Everything is hyper-polarized.  Every change is trumpeted as a War On ______.  To be clear I'm not saying the members here are that way, I'm referring to the Talking Heads that run both sides of the media.  The conversations here are pretty civil, and I wish some of that could be transplanted to the rest of the world.

I try not to be drawn into these types of posts.  I mean, I come here to get away from the insanity of the world!  Muir was right, our spirits need wilderness.  The funny thing is that almost everyone here probably has a vast amount in common; love of the woods, respect for nature, a love of hunting and fishing, etc.  But if we hang out together long enough we always seem to  wind up on the topics we disagree with!

I respect the opinion of all of you folks!  I think this is a good discussion on a lot of levels, too.

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2018, 09:43:54 AM »
An interesting notion that the children should be deciding what it is they want to do. I thought Boy Scouts was predicated on the idea that a systematic guiding through boyhood was the best approach in developing healthy, happy men.

I gotta tell you though I know nothing about girl scouts program but I do somewhat object to the idea presented here that there is now a new sort of girl or 21st c. woman. I will agree that girls/women have a new focus, different ideas from "1950s" definitions of what being female means....which of course has a good deal to do with much of the confusion we see around us.

June Cleaver                     (Leave it to Beaver)
Margaret Anderson            (Father know best)
Betty Draper                     (Mad men)
All wonderful 1950's stereotypes.
And then the reality of Nikki Haley in the 21st century. UN ambassador "I don't get confused."

 :stir:      :rofl:

Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2018, 12:07:58 PM »
 :rofl: :hail:
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Offline wolfy

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Offline wsdstan

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2018, 08:56:16 PM »
Might be the last nail in the BSA coffin.  18.5% is a pretty tough loss in membership and given the shrinking membership as fewer new members join up makes for a grim future I would think.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2018, 10:59:24 AM »
I recieved this from The National Eagle Scout Association this morning......change s some of the preconceived notions & rumors about this 'girls included' movement that is now in the works.....

https://scoutingwire.org/the-boy-scouts-of-america-organization-name-is-not-changing-and-other-facts-to-set-the-record-straight/?tr=y&auid=17566574
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2018, 11:42:34 AM »
Interesting Wolfy, I have met female scouts, they were integrated in a troop with the boys. This was about a month or so ago. I was told they were a trial If I remember.
What a great day to be outside.

Offline crashdive123

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
So......splain this to me.


If they are going to be single gender troops with no co-ed troops, why the change?  Why not single gender troops as in the past?  We used to call them Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2018, 03:18:56 PM »
Also how's summer camp going to work? I can see both gender troop attending at the same time but each camp will have to build new restrooms & showers.
Good thing their are only two genders.  :P
What a great day to be outside.

Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2018, 05:01:51 PM »
Also how's summer camp going to work?
Good thing their are only two genders.  :P

Uhh......that's not what they're trying to convince us of these days, lgm!  ;)
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Online Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2018, 06:41:03 AM »
So......splain this to me.


If they are going to be single gender troops with no co-ed troops, why the change?  Why not single gender troops as in the past?  We used to call them Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

  I could be wrong, it's happened a time or two, but in my opinion (having had kids in both BSA and GSA) in the past when the GSA was in it's prime it's format was just as Home Economics was in High Schools across the country,  to help young women prepare for life as a house wife and home maker.
 We live in a much different world today, women are more inclined to work outside the home, hold managerial positions, and even own business, they have moved out of the kitchen and sewing room and become fire fighters, police officers, and fighter pilots, they build houses and drive the big rigs,  in essence they are competing with men in what used to be a man's world.
 Out of this was born the Feminist and Unisex movements geared toward downplaying the traditional role of women in society,  naturally if a young girl is given the choice of learning to toil in the home and take care of a man and kids,  or to learn a do adventurous stuff like hiking , camping, canoeing, and learning other wilderness and self reliant skills, what would you do ?
 Had the GSA tuned in on these changes over the years and adjusted it's learning format to include some or all of the adventurous stuff in addition to their regular program it would probably have continued to thrive,  but even amid all this furor about the BSA being pressured into taking women into the organization I have not heard word one from the GSA about up date their organization to meet the more modern day requirements of todays young women.           
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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2018, 06:46:38 AM »
Also how's summer camp going to work? I can see both gender troop attending at the same time but each camp will have to build new restrooms & showers.
Good thing their are only two genders.  :P

  Why ?,  it's common today for men, women, gays, and trans genders to share the same facilities in many public places.
  Ain't saying it's right, only saying that it's being done and accepted by modern society today.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2018, 11:57:06 AM »
So......splain this to me.


If they are going to be single gender troops with no co-ed troops, why the change?  Why not single gender troops as in the past?  We used to call them Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

  I could be wrong, it's happened a time or two, but in my opinion (having had kids in both BSA and GSA) in the past when the GSA was in it's prime it's format was just as Home Economics was in High Schools across the country,  to help young women prepare for life as a house wife and home maker.
 We live in a much different world today, women are more inclined to work outside the home, hold managerial positions, and even own business, they have moved out of the kitchen and sewing room and become fire fighters, police officers, and fighter pilots, they build houses and drive the big rigs,  in essence they are competing with men in what used to be a man's world.
 Out of this was born the Feminist and Unisex movements geared toward downplaying the traditional role of women in society,  naturally if a young girl is given the choice of learning to toil in the home and take care of a man and kids,  or to learn a do adventurous stuff like hiking , camping, canoeing, and learning other wilderness and self reliant skills, what would you do ?
 Had the GSA tuned in on these changes over the years and adjusted it's learning format to include some or all of the adventurous stuff in addition to their regular program it would probably have continued to thrive,  but even amid all this furor about the BSA being pressured into taking women into the organization I have not heard word one from the GSA about up date their organization to meet the more modern day requirements of todays young women.           

I think that's about it in a nutshell, Moe.  It's the GSA that has seriously dropped the ball on their available outdoor learning venues and it's the BSA that is now paying the price.  I hope they both survive the consequences & transitions and find some sensible modifications that will add satisfied members to each program.  We still need them both because there really are no nationwide alternative youth organizations that are as universally accessible to as many young people.  :coffee:
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