Author Topic: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA  (Read 2348 times)

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Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2018, 02:48:40 PM »
I have been doing some deep thinking on this issue, and I am reluctantly okay with single sex troops, but I believe the boy scouts should have worked with the girl scouts, maybe even have merged. I can see admitting a girl if the troop is the only one in town, or if there are enough girls to populate a patrol, or den, I can see the utility of having co-ed cub scouts, but am still a firm believer in at the age of  boy scouts the two sexes would have a more positive experience if they stay single sex.

There is also a big part of me that wants to fight for what is left of a men's only world. I have tried to join a book club my girlfriend belongs to and I am shunned by some, talked down to by others and some are okay with it, but enough of the fat old mean man haters made it so I did not stick around. What if I was to join a womens only gym ( not that I would, I hate working out), the gals would be squawking like the sky was falling. So yes a big problem I have with this decision is chauvinistic and I am damm proud to say it.
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2018, 03:30:25 PM »
Also how's summer camp going to work? I can see both gender troop attending at the same time but
  Why ?,  it's common today for men, women, gays, and trans genders to share the same facilities in many public places.
  Ain't saying it's right, only saying that it's being done and accepted by modern society today.
Because it would violate their youth protection guidelines.
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2018, 03:43:37 PM »
<iframe width="628" height="353" src="" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2018, 06:00:31 PM »
 :rofl:  I remember seeing that one on a Saturday morning, MANY years ago.
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Offline crashdive123

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2018, 06:19:29 PM »
Regardless of what they end up doing, it is important to remember it is for the kids and to develop them (whatever gender they happen to be) into productive members of the community.  It seems that nowadays there is less and less guidance for many of the kids.  Hopefully some of us old farts can do something to change that.

Offline Mannlicher

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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2018, 07:38:00 AM »
sick.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2018, 11:02:31 AM »
Won't see much about this on the nightly news I am afraid.  One of their own stepped on his D**K on this one.  What a sick individual group that is.
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2018, 03:48:05 AM »
I realize that WND is not the most reliable of news sources,  but they,  like all blind squirrels, finds a nut now and then.
http://www.wnd.com/2018/05/condoms-required-at-scouts-24th-world-jamboree/
Quote
The Boy Scouts have decided to accept people who identify as gay and lesbian among their ranks. And girls are welcome now, too, into the iconic organization, which has renamed itself Scouts BSA.

So what?s next?

A mandate that condoms be made available to ?all participants? of its global gathering.

It?s among the demands of the World Scout Committee for any host country of a World Scout Jamboree.

That would include the 24th World Scout Jamboree, scheduled July 21-Aug. 1, 2019, in West Virginia.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2018, 06:12:03 AM »
I realize that WND is not the most reliable of news sources,  but they,  like all blind squirrels, finds a nut now and then.
http://www.wnd.com/2018/05/condoms-required-at-scouts-24th-world-jamboree/
Quote
The Boy Scouts have decided to accept people who identify as gay and lesbian among their ranks. And girls are welcome now, too, into the iconic organization, which has renamed itself Scouts BSA.

So what?s next?

A mandate that condoms be made available to ?all participants? of its global gathering.

It?s among the demands of the World Scout Committee for any host country of a World Scout Jamboree.

That would include the 24th World Scout Jamboree, scheduled July 21-Aug. 1, 2019, in West Virginia.

  If the story is factual the organization is in a lot more trouble than just the question of Coed Scouts,  it's an all encompassing policy that flies in the face of the BSA's long standing Motto which clearly defines what Scouting was supposed to instill in the character of boys and young men.
  Personally I've drifted back and forth between being angry and being understanding of the need to be inclusive,  while I may not agree with the changes in the organization I'm not without compassion for the young people who are different when it comes to gender, religion, or sexual orientation, this world is crazy enough for adults to try to understand, it's got to be doubly hard for kids to try to figure out where they fit into it.
  My fear is that there's more to these changes than just inclusiveness,  with every new story that breaks concerning the organization and it's ever changing progressive policy changes over time on Faith, gender, sexual orientation, gay leaders, and now passing out condoms and suggesting alcohol may be present at the gathering,  this is starting to look like an agenda is being pushed to destroy another venue that teaches pride in ones creator, country, moral character, and ones self,  It's happening in our town halls, our schools, and now in some of our greatest institutions.
  I believe we've reached our prime and are now beginning our backwards slide to self destruction,  it was a great ride while it lasted. 
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2018, 06:35:32 AM »

[/quote]

 
  I believe we've reached our prime and are now beginning our backwards slide to self destruction,  it was a great ride while it lasted.
[/quote]

I agree.  The pendulum won't swing back.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2018, 07:38:15 AM »
I realize that WND is not the most reliable of news sources,  but they,  like all blind squirrels, finds a nut now and then.
http://www.wnd.com/2018/05/condoms-required-at-scouts-24th-world-jamboree/
Quote
The Boy Scouts have decided to accept people who identify as gay and lesbian among their ranks. And girls are welcome now, too, into the iconic organization, which has renamed itself Scouts BSA.

So what?s next?

A mandate that condoms be made available to ?all participants? of its global gathering.

It?s among the demands of the World Scout Committee for any host country of a World Scout Jamboree.

That would include the 24th World Scout Jamboree, scheduled July 21-Aug. 1, 2019, in West Virginia.

  If the story is factual the organization is in a lot more trouble than just the question of Coed Scouts,  it's an all encompassing policy that flies in the face of the BSA's long standing Motto which clearly defines what Scouting was supposed to instill in the character of boys and young men.
  Personally I've drifted back and forth between being angry and being understanding of the need to be inclusive,  while I may not agree with the changes in the organization I'm not without compassion for the young people who are different when it comes to gender, religion, or sexual orientation, this world is crazy enough for adults to try to understand, it's got to be doubly hard for kids to try to figure out where they fit into it.
  My fear is that there's more to these changes than just inclusiveness,  with every new story that breaks concerning the organization and it's ever changing progressive policy changes over time on Faith, gender, sexual orientation, gay leaders, and now passing out condoms and suggesting alcohol may be present at the gathering,  this is starting to look like an agenda is being pushed to destroy another venue that teaches pride in ones creator, country, moral character, and ones self,  It's happening in our town halls, our schools, and now in some of our greatest institutions.
  I believe we've reached our prime and are now beginning our backwards slide to self destruction,  it was a great ride while it lasted. 

QUOTE FROM MOE:
"If the story is factual the organization is in a lot more trouble than just the question of Coed Scouts,  it's an all encompassing policy that flies in the face of the BSA's long standing MOTTO which clearly defines what Scouting was supposed to instill in the character of boys and young men."

SCOUT MOTTO:
In English, this MOTTO is most commonly BE PREPARED. In the third part of Scouting for Boys Robert Baden-Powell explains the meaning of the phrase: The Scout Motto is: BE PREPARED which means you are always in a state of readiness in mind and body to do your DUTY.

OBSERVATION FROM WOLFY:
Since the Scout MOTTO is "BE PREPARED," I find the issuance of the new Official Scout Rubber as just another venue for being fully prepared! :cheers: :lol:
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2018, 07:47:38 AM »
That made me LOL wolfy.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2018, 12:08:41 PM »
not sure the 'be prepared' thing included being ready to deal with  peaderasty.  Especially from a 'trusted leader'.   Issuing a good Buck knife would seem to be more in the way of being prepared.

Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2018, 12:16:06 PM »
Just another of my failed attempts at levity, I guess. :shrug:

The Girl Scouts appear to be gaining some members since the acceptance of girls in the Cub Scouts program.  Maybe SOME good will come of all this.....

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/lifestyle/as-boy-scouts-allow-girls-seattle-area-girl-scouts-flourish/
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:40:14 PM by wolfy »
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2018, 05:22:15 PM »

  Sorry guys,  I was referring to the BSA Oath and called it Motto instead,  Senility creeping in I guess.  (Grin)
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Offline Punty

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2018, 01:39:15 PM »
  They should drop the "B".

  Or...they should name them the "Bushlore Scouts of America". Then they can keep the "B".
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2018, 07:58:20 AM »
Thoughts of two old Eagle Scouts on 'the change'..........

« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 04:40:29 PM by wolfy »
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #68 on: May 30, 2018, 11:30:17 AM »
Thoughts of two old Eagle Scouts on ?the change?.....



  Thanks Craig, good catch.

  There's a lot to think about pro and con about this subject,  I found myself really angry about the changes that the BSA have been going through over the last decade and especially now that they are including girls in the program and changing the name of the organization.
  But then there's the side of me that can recognize a need for a venue for young women who want to broaden their lives and take on more adventurous lifestyles than is offered to them with the GSA programs,  I have two daughters (both grown and married),  one always dressed with collar length dresses that always ended below the knees,  she was a cheer leader in high school and plays the Harp,  the younger one dressed in shorts and tank tops most of the time,  played contact sports, and rode a mini bike.
  The oldest joined the GSA, did crafts, and sold cookies,  the younger one would have none of that,  she loved to go camping, hiking, canoeing, and fishing,  none of which were offered by the GSA,  so why not give the girls a place to experience that.
  So, on the surface the change is needed and a good thing,  but in my opinion there's an underlying agenda at play, it's very subtle, it seems to be well planned, and it is moving ahead at a pace where it's hard to recognize,  first the BSA are pressured into policy changes relative to firearms practice, fixed blade knives and hatchets, then to discourage the general carry of pocket knives,  Boy Scouts have had no issues using those tools for a hundred years,  why the changes ?
  Then all of a sudden there's a hue and cry that the BSA is bias against allowing gays into the organization,  first they are pressured into accepting gay scouts, then gay Scout leaders,  and again the traditional values and policies that have worked so well for so long are changed,  ask yourself why, and by who ?
  Now the BSA are accused of gender discrimination,  DUH, it's called The BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA for a reason,  but evidently what used  to be accepted as normal behavior is now a civil rights violation against women,  it's also my opinion that everything Traditional that represents individualism, gender, faith, patriotism, values, ethics, and morality that has defined us as a society are all under attack by the forces of the left be it liberalism, progressivism, socialism,  what ever tag they place on themselves, or the new term they are labeling themselves as "Social Warriors" are a loosely organized but large group of saboteurs working independently to "Fundamentally Change the United States of America"  (remember that campaign slogan),  well,  they are getting it done,  and we like good little sheep,  are letting them do it,  shame on us.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2018, 01:13:58 AM »
Well, marginalizing broad classes of people used to be normal.  I'm fine with the changes when they're good ones.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2018, 09:17:12 AM »
Well, marginalizing broad classes of people used to be normal.  I'm fine with the changes when they're good ones.

  I agree, but who gets to define what's good, individually or for the country in the long run ??? ?

  I appears that the changes will continue until every one is of the same or no faith, everyone shares the same economic lifestyle,  when the genders loose all of their identifiable markers,  and when the state decides, not the individual, what's proper to think, act, and  how we should conduct our private and pesonal lives, in other words total collectivism.

  Call me an old fashioned Traditionalist if you will,  but I still believe that we and our world were created by intelligent design,  I don't believe in the theory that we and the world as we know it are the result of a freak accidental collision in space,  we and our environment are much too complex to believe that it's all come about through evolution,  the basics had to be there to begin with.
  There's a reason why men and women are different in body and in mind,  the same holds true for all of God's creations fauna and flora,  when man believes himself to have risen above the intelligence of his creator and begins to tamper with the order of nature he sets himself on the path of self destruction, and I'm not talking religiously, I think we are well on our way to loosing ourselves.

  A good example of how much we have lost can be found in the not so distant past,  when the great depression came along most Americans still had inherited self reliance skills that were instilled in them by their parents and grand parents from the 1800's, they knew how to garden, work with live stock, hunt, fish, and forage, they knew at least the basics of building, and of survival,  today most young people and adults couldn't build a fire without a Bic lighter and a can of charcoal fuel,  don't know the first thing about growing food or preserving it, or raising chickens,  one of the main reasons why forums like this exist is because people need a place to learn,  that is if they know what they have lost.
 If we had the same type of event befall us today how many do you think would survive without a job, home, any way to purchase food and meds, utilities, gasoline, hell most wouldn't survive the loss of their cell phone service,  it's mostly due to people who keep trying to fix something that's not broken,  or make right some inequity that they deem to be unfair without giving any thought to the unintended consequences they may be causing down the road.   

 In todays world self reliance is not only discouraged, but our modern wise thinking powers that be actually have passed laws forbidding the collection of rain water, the growing of gardens, and have curtailed hunting and access to public lands where wild edibles could be foraged,  boys are being feminized and young women being convinced that they should be men,  many are so screwed up they don't have a clue what they are or want to be, so they dress in unisex clothes, wear their hair the same way and want to invade each others space,  I hear they  are even working on a way to allow men to get impregnated and give birth, the article stated "naturally",  go figure.

 Again,  I'm not against some changes, others, not so much.   
 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 09:22:18 AM by Moe M. »
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Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2018, 05:49:26 PM »
I am thinking one reason there are not more younger members here on the forum is a result of the changes made in the boy scouts years ago. Change is the rallying cry of the progressive left, change no matter the cost or consequences. If it does not work or there are negative consequences they defend their nearsighted emotional actions by saying "something had to been done" or "what would you have done". They act without thinking just as children do.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2018, 03:04:12 AM »
I suppose this is something that we'll never agree on.  It's pretty clear from history that a lot of what some call "traditional roles" were merely roles adopted in the last hundred and fifty years, in some cases less, that were pretty big departures from the centuries that preceded them.  Feminization of males? That's pretty humorous! Go to a rendevous and you'll find plenty of Brawny men wearing purses as men did in the past, but of course it's not a purse if you call it a "possibles pouch" is it?  You don't need a broad understanding of history either to see that children under the age of three or four were dressed in dresses no matter their gender, for the reason you'd imagine in an era when you didn't have a 7/11 stocked with disposable diapers.  Well before the White Man "discovered" this continent it was already heavily populated, and many of those First Nations did not share the modern/"traditional" idea of binary gender roles.  Many tribes had language that recognized a third sex.  Also homosexuality is a modern concept that would have seemed odd to man ancient cultures.  A wealthy man might have sex with a younger man but that "lifestyle choice" as is quaintly said today didn't "make" him anything, it was just an act that a person might do.  In Rome it was more about who did what (ie which was the dominant partner) than the genders.  The idea that a certain deity ordained one type to be moral and another immoral was relatively uncommon outside the Middle East/desert religions.

Likewise the folks of the 1800's couldn't write code or drive a car, either, for the same reasons people today generally don't shoe horses or pick cotton by hand- namely that those skills aren't relevant to their lives.  Many folks of the past couldn't read or write at all (I suppose the same is true today especially in very impoverished areas).  What use would a resident of NYC have for skills like shoeing a horse?  That's like teaching an Australian Aboriginal how to pilot the Space Shuttle just in case he ever found one somewhere.  In our modern world there are a lot of skills needed to survive, so learning skills to survive a hundred years ago won't help that you survive today.  There are seven billion souls on this blue marble today- there's no practical way to roll back the clock to the 1800s again and have those people survive.

But it's true, it's complicated to decide what's best, and for who.  I suppose most people agree that not lynching black men for marrying white women is a change for the better, although sadly not everyone agrees.  It's true that going forward, middle aged white men will no longer make all the decisions for the rest of society.  Some lament that but I think it's both necessary and inevitable.  We never should have had slavery to begin with, never should have had voting a right only for white males, never should have forces "colored" people to drink from different fountains.  I suppose the libertarian in me doesn't think the government has any business in my bedroom either. 

Tradition.  That's the rallying cry of the hard-right and alt-right.  Things must stay the same, the status quo must be preserved no matter the cost to human life and dignity.  If people are marginalized or disenfranchised, well, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.  But doing things they way they've always been done simply because we've always done it that way...that's slavery.

I suppose this has strayed a bit afield of the issue but on some level change is the issue.  Some folks simply don't want things to change, no matter what.  Me, I like the idea of preserving good traditions and ditching the bad ones.  I really can't see what's wrong with teaching our girls and young women how to change a tire, skin a deer or clean a fish just like I see nothing wrong with teaching a boy or young man how to cook his own dinner or sew on a missing button.  Self reliance is something we should be promoting for everyone just like love of outdoors should be part of every life.

Lastly, I think it's good that we can have a discussion like this while keeping a civil tone.

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2018, 05:51:06 AM »
"choice" as is quaintly said today didn't "make" him anything, it was just an act that a person might do.  In Rome it was more about who did what (ie which was the dominant partner) than the genders" Quoted from Phaedrus.

You mean Greece, in Roman history there are plenty of examples of homosexuality as being against the public norm; Julius Caesar's troops made up a ditty that made fun of Caesar's relationship with a prince. Pompey commented on the immorality of homosexuality more than once. In Rome it was frowned upon. The word buggered has a latin origin, which means to take advantage of in a demeaning way, to screw over. It is also a term used to describe "non-tradional" sexual positions. Because a third gender was recognized by American Indian tribes does not mean that every indian was okay with it. Read Mans Rise to Civilization by Peter Farb, it will enlighten you more on the Indian sexual mores.


I do not know how homosexuality came into this dicusssion. It has nothing to do with this topic. THis is a topic and rallying point of the progressive left, who yes want to do away witn any all conventions and traditions. They respect nothing, nothing is sacred. This kind of argument is straight out of Saul Lewinskeys play book. It will not play well here, we are an educated bunch.

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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2018, 08:00:21 AM »
EXCELLENT discussion, gentlemen! :hail:
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2018, 08:24:11 AM »
 You're right about having civil conversations,  but they can be trying at times.

 You say that Tradition is the rallying cry for the right and alt right,  it very well may be,  but change is the rallying cry for the left and for most libertarians,  while some may argue,  it's undeniable that both ideologies have more in common than they disagree on,  one of the points they share in common is their uncanny ability to misrepresent facts, mostly by introducing half truths and over complicating issues, history being one of their favorite targets.
 If you go to a primitive rendezvous you will indeed see brawny men carrying possibles bags, hunting bags, and market bags, these could be considered purses of the day, but you failed  to include that at that time most clothing had no pockets,  that women continued to carry bags because women's clothing still has few pockets while men's attire since the Victorian era has had pockets commonly affixed to pants, vests, and jackets,  the need for men to carry bags of any kind with which to keep their "possibles" in is no longer needed.
 You are also right that up into the early 1900's infants and toddlers were dressed alike and mostly wore what we commonly refer to as dresses,  but it wasn't out of any disrespect for gender rolls, it was done more for expediency than style.
 An honest look at history when it comes to gender roles clearly shows that there were definite differences between the roles that men and women were expected to fill in society,  from the time when people made their homes in caves down through the ages when they moved to tee pees and wig warms, women always tended to family while men did the providing and protecting, however,  native American women in the Five Nations did play an important role in their society, they were the actual decision makers for the confederation, they would meet, discuss problems, make decisions, and then quietly pass their decisions down to the male leadership who would implement those decisions,  it's been written that the way our own US government is set up is loosely based on the workings of the Confederation of the Five Nations.
 My personal feelings toward homosexuality is pretty much neutral, what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is none of my concern,  however, as much as gays want to convince society that homosexuality is natural and normal by pointing to the past and misrepresenting the truth about how it was accepted in the days of prehistoric man or in the days of the roman empire, or in todays enlightened society, and how it happens in the animal and plant world,  it again is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, while it is true that there were pockets of sexual decadence in world history it doesn't erase the fact that society in general down through the ages has considered homosexuality as being abnormal human behavior though I would agree that religious beliefs have played a big part in making it so.
 That said,  if one discounts the religious aspect and relies on the scientific relevance,  homosexuality plays no reasonable role in the evolutionary process of man,  it absolutely serves no function on any level of furthering or improving the species,  it's acceptance is only supported by the level of tolerance it is given by society in general at any given time in history,  and tolerance doesn't equal acceptance or imply that it is normal to the human condition, thus even today some call it a life style choice while others believe it's a genetic defect from birth, still others see it as caused by a mental or emotional disorder, which all goes to support the overall belief that what ever it is it's not natural or normal, and I don't see that changing any time soon.     
 As far as people in the 1800's driving cars,  automobiles in the 1800's were scarce at best and too expensive for the average working class person, it wasn't until well into the 1900's that the automobile actually became more affordable and before roads and infrastructure were established to support wide spread use,  and it wasn't until approx. 50 years later that women started driving, most women in the '40's and early '50's didn't drive, not because it wasn't PC, but because they had no actual need to drive.
 Most women worked in the home, there were usually small grocery stores within easy walking distance from their homes and most areas of the country had available public transportation or the men in the family would drive them to where they needed to go if necessary.
 Again, in my opinion there have been many good changes that have come about over time especially where civil rights are concerned and there's no arguing that much of todays technology has made our lives easier and in many ways safer, and has extended our lives, but some of the traditions that have been cast aside especially in the last century in the name of societal progress such as religion, morals, ethics, mutual respect, love of country, and yes even self reliance skills and the ability to cope with emotional stresses have not benefited us as a society, one only need to point to the ideological and political division in this country, to the racial unrest, to the street violence, and to violence happening in our schools, churches, and public buildings,  to the complete lack of respect for our first amendment rights in colleges today where differences of ideas are being violently opposed and shut down.
 We live with the changes that tear at the very fiber of our being, millions of babies are killed in the womb every year while our political leaders champion for the rights of MS13 gang members who do nothing but murder, torture and commit other evils on the innocent,  how are those changes working out for you.   
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2018, 03:14:02 PM »
Homosexuality appears in nature in most mammals that science has observed. It's perhaps more common in Bonobos than in humans. It's so common in the animal kingdom in fact that many scientists think there's an advantage to it or at least that it cannot be much of a hindrance. Few human societies are more uptight about sex as ours is but the historical truth is that most of disdain seems rooted in the desert religions of the middle east. As for people publicly advocating for mi13 I'll confess I've never heard anyone doing anything of the sort, so that has worked out for me just fine. Truly you must hang with a much rougher crowd than I do.  ;)

Through most of history a pregnancy wasn't considered viable until the 'quickening' when the baby began to move in the womb. Abortion has been pretty common in human history as has contraception. The root of the modern hysteria against it seems rooted in the antiquated notion of women as property, subject to the rules of whichever man had claim on her.  I don't think a zygote has a very good claim to personhood but every state has laws against abortion of a late term pregnancy, so that seems like just dogma to me.

At any rate gender roles are something every civilization works out for themselves. It seems to me fairly ridiculous to expect all future generations to slavishly conform to norms of the ancient past. For the most part modern life doesn't require the physical ability to beat a mammoth to death, so why should we pretend it does?

Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2018, 03:59:31 PM »
Homosexuality appears in nature in most mammals that science has observed. It's perhaps more common in Bonobos than in humans. It's so common in the animal kingdom in fact that many scientists think there's an advantage to it or at least that it cannot be much of a hindrance. Few human societies are more uptight about sex as ours is but the historical truth is that most of disdain seems rooted in the desert religions of the middle east. As for people publicly advocating for mi13 I'll confess I've never heard anyone doing anything of the sort, so that has worked out for me just fine. Truly you must hang with a much rougher crowd than I do.  ;)

Through most of history a pregnancy wasn't considered viable until the 'quickening' when the baby began to move in the womb. Abortion has been pretty common in human history as has contraception. The root of the modern hysteria against it seems rooted in the antiquated notion of women as property, subject to the rules of whichever man had claim on her.  I don't think a zygote has a very good claim to personhood but every state has laws against abortion of a late term pregnancy, so that seems like just dogma to me.

At any rate gender roles are something every civilization works out for themselves. It seems to me fairly ridiculous to expect all future generations to slavishly conform to norms of the ancient past. For the most part modern life doesn't require the physical ability to beat a mammoth to death, so why should we pretend it does?

Where are you getting your info from, it has a biased slant to it. It is absolutely not true that most mammals species have homosexual members. IT IS NOT TRUE. Many displays of homosexuality outside of humans are acts of domination, have seen it before with bulls. You are throwing info out posing as facts. Want to see your references. I have and can furnish more references to back up what I am saying. Can you. You are close to ruining a good thread so why continue.


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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2018, 06:50:02 PM »
Phaedrus, so what are you suggesting?  That because every despicable act was at some time in the past by some some group considered acceptable  that it should also be now?
Does that go for pedophile, slavery, witch burning, canabulisem or just the ones you like?
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2018, 07:12:02 PM »
Yeah, I think the thread has taken a bit of a detour.......it wasn't supposed to address pederasty, natural or unnatural homosexuality or abortion in the B.S.A.   It's mainstream was supposed to be a discussion about the turn toward providing young people of both sexes with much needed outdoor education and why it now has to be the responsibility of the BOY Scouts instead of a massive and neglected redirection of the GIRL Scouts.  :-\
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Offline wolfy

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2018, 09:58:08 PM »
Grab a pad & pencil and take down this number and website if you TRULY want to be heard by the higher-ups at the B.S.A. over this matter......

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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2018, 11:30:45 PM »

Where are you getting your info from, it has a biased slant to it. It is absolutely not true that most mammals species have homosexual members. IT IS NOT TRUE. Many displays of homosexuality outside of humans are acts of domination...

That sounds like simply your opinion.  You can pretty easily read the facts for yourself, they're very well known to anyone that's studied anthropology at all, or any other natural science.  The studies of Bonobos is widely known, please educate yourself at your leisure.

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2018, 11:38:35 PM »
Phaedrus, so what are you suggesting?  That because every despicable act was at some time in the past by some some group considered acceptable  that it should also be now?
Does that go for pedophile, slavery, witch burning, canabulisem or just the ones you like?

Not at all.  But to turn that around, is something despicable simply because a bronze age desert religion declares it to be?  Or should we apply critical thinking to it?  What does the US Constitution say?

There's a couple of tests you can apply to see if something is terrible.  The first is does it affect other people?  Well, aside from causing general butthurt.  If a two women fall in love, how is that harming you?  How is your business?  If a man wants to wear a skirt, or a kilt, how is that harming you?  The short answer is that if you're merely suffering from butthurt, then it's probably something that really doesn't concern you.  If you apply that test to pedophilia or rape, then you'll see why those are crimes.

This is straying quite a ways from the Boy Scouts but I see it as related.  Many of you seem to think that no one has a right to conduct their lives or businesses in ways you disapprove of.  Disapproval should be an Olympic sport from the looks of things.  When did skins get so thin that knickers get twisted over women being allowed to collect bugs and light campfires?  Are girls destined to simply sell cookies and shut up?

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2018, 11:40:44 PM »
Yeah, I think the thread has taken a bit of a detour.......it wasn't supposed to address pederasty, natural or unnatural homosexuality or abortion in the B.S.A.   It's mainstream was supposed to be a discussion about the turn toward providing young people of both sexes with much needed outdoor education and why it now has to be the responsibility of the BOY Scouts instead of a massive and neglected redirection of the GIRL Scouts.  :-\

You're probably right.  Probably the Girl Scouts should be working to give girls better opportunities.  But they're probably hobbled by the same kind of groupthink that's directing mortar fire onto the BSA.  Maybe they have the right idea; not BOY scouts, not GIRL scouts, just scouts.  I don't think that will topple the Republic. ;)

Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2018, 05:22:17 AM »
Grab a pad & pencil and take down this number and website if you TRULY want to be heard by the higher-ups at the B.S.A. over this matter......



  Good catch Wolfy,  thanks for sharing.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2018, 07:57:20 AM »
Homosexuality appears in nature in most mammals that science has observed. It's perhaps more common in Bonobos than in humans. It's so common in the animal kingdom in fact that many scientists think there's an advantage to it or at least that it cannot be much of a hindrance. Few human societies are more uptight about sex as ours is but the historical truth is that most of disdain seems rooted in the desert religions of the middle east. As for people publicly advocating for mi13 I'll confess I've never heard anyone doing anything of the sort, so that has worked out for me just fine. Truly you must hang with a much rougher crowd than I do.  ;)

Through most of history a pregnancy wasn't considered viable until the 'quickening' when the baby began to move in the womb. Abortion has been pretty common in human history as has contraception. The root of the modern hysteria against it seems rooted in the antiquated notion of women as property, subject to the rules of whichever man had claim on her.  I don't think a zygote has a very good claim to personhood but every state has laws against abortion of a late term pregnancy, so that seems like just dogma to me.

At any rate gender roles are something every civilization works out for themselves. It seems to me fairly ridiculous to expect all future generations to slavishly conform to norms of the ancient past. For the most part modern life doesn't require the physical ability to beat a mammoth to death, so why should we pretend it does?

  Actually, I don't hang with any rough crowds,  I'm considered pretty mainstream as far as my associations with people,  although my circle of friends are mostly conservative,  mostly outdoors people, mostly people of faith, and most are family oriented.
  Although my LE career has brought me into contact with a lot of folks who are not all that mainstream,  some could be called odd while others appear to have escaped from a box of misfit toys,  one fellow who I really feel bad for is one of those who's life keeps getting more screwed up every day that he lives it.
  His name is Harold, he's about 35 years old, he still lives at home,  his folks are nice people and he has two normal siblings who live in town and have their own families,  Harold on the other hand can't seem to keep a steady job, doesn't mix well with others and hasn't many friends.
  Harold was born into a Catholic family and lives in a small town that has more churches than bars and gas stations,  the towns school system is one of the best in the state,  and you can take a walk on any street in town any time of day or night and feel pretty safe,  the towns people are average politically and culturally as most other small rural towns.
  So, what's wrong with Harold,  nothing actually, if he lived in Hollywood, LA, SF, or Seattle,  anywhere really where the political environment is ultra progressive or in some Libertarian enclave somewhere,  Harold has a few things going for him that doesn't help to endear him to his community,  he's deeply anti religious,  he's a big L Libertarian,  and he's openly gay,  if he kept all these things to himself and didn't get into debates where he was compelled to advocate for or defend his positions on his politics, religion, and homosexuality he might have a better social life,  get along better with his family, and actually have more real friends.
  I say this only because it's one thing to know that someone you get along with is different than you in a few ways as long as those differences are not continually being focused on,  but it's quite another trying to get along with someone who is different socially, politically, and gender wise and who never misses a chance to be a loud activist for a cause that is less than popular.
  I think we both look at the meaning of the word Traditional and see a different meaning,  I believe you see out dated thinking and rules to live by that are mostly irrelevant in todays more sophisticated world, you view those ideas and beliefs as impediments to societal progress in most areas of life that were instituted by religions as a sort of control over the masses.
  I see them as guide lines created by forward  thinking leaders both religious and cultural who saw that we all have a role to play in this thing we call life,  that there are specific roles for men and women that must be preserved in order to maintain faith, morals, values, ethics, and respect in an orderly society,  and to promote a strong family bond to insure a continuation of the species.
  When those things that we have called traditional are trampled on, marginalized, and made obsolete we end up with the start of what we see happening today,  racial tension, religious persecution, wholesale slaughter of the unborn, mass killings in the streets of our biggest cities,  our schools and public places are no long safe for us or our kids, con men are robbing our seniors at every chance, the family unit is all but extinct in some communities, our prisons are overcrowded, and we no longer know our neighbors. 
 
  Critical Thinking,  how's that working out for you, really ??? ?
   
   
 
 
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Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2018, 09:19:45 AM »

Where are you getting your info from, it has a biased slant to it. It is absolutely not true that most mammals species have homosexual members. IT IS NOT TRUE. Many displays of homosexuality outside of humans are acts of domination...

That sounds like simply your opinion.  You can pretty easily read the facts for yourself, they're very well known to anyone that's studied anthropology at all, or any other natural science.  The studies of Bonobos is widely known, please educate yourself at your leisure.


Wrong, it is up to you to  back up your facts not to me to research them. I am very familiar with Bonobos, but that is not proof of your statement. It is the equivalent of me saying all men from New Mexico are idiots because of the one I ran into last night. Your reasoning is flawed. Your tone is snarky which usually means you do not have the info to back up your statement. Typical keyboard warrior
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2018, 11:11:52 AM »
Phaedrus, so what are you suggesting?  That because every despicable act was at some time in the past by some some group considered acceptable  that it should also be now?
Does that go for pedophile, slavery, witch burning, canabulisem or just the ones you like?

Not at all.  But to turn that around, is something despicable simply because a bronze age desert religion declares it to be?  Or should we apply critical thinking to it?  What does the US Constitution say?

There's a couple of tests you can apply to see if something is terrible.  The first is does it affect other people?  Well, aside from causing general butthurt.  If a two women fall in love, how is that harming you?  How is your business?  If a man wants to wear a skirt, or a kilt, how is that harming you?  The short answer is that if you're merely suffering from butthurt, then it's probably something that really doesn't concern you.  If you apply that test to pedophilia or rape, then you'll see why those are crimes.

This is straying quite a ways from the Boy Scouts but I see it as related.  Many of you seem to think that no one has a right to conduct their lives or businesses in ways you disapprove of.  Disapproval should be an Olympic sport from the looks of things.  When did skins get so thin that knickers get twisted over women being allowed to collect bugs and light campfires?  Are girls destined to simply sell cookies and shut up?
I am at work and don't have the time so all I am going to say is when did any of us ask anyone to change?  We simply don't want the people you are defending to force the BSA to change.  You have taken this thread down a rabbit hole. Perhaps you should start a new thread, maybe on a different fourm. One more suitable for the topic you have chosen.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2018, 05:06:32 PM »
Phaedrus, so what are you suggesting?  That because every despicable act was at some time in the past by some some group considered acceptable  that it should also be now?
Does that go for pedophile, slavery, witch burning, canabulisem or just the ones you like?

Not at all.  But to turn that around, is something despicable simply because a bronze age desert religion declares it to be?  Or should we apply critical thinking to it?  What does the US Constitution say?

There's a couple of tests you can apply to see if something is terrible.  The first is does it affect other people?  Well, aside from causing general butthurt.  If a two women fall in love, how is that harming you?  How is your business?  If a man wants to wear a skirt, or a kilt, how is that harming you?  The short answer is that if you're merely suffering from butthurt, then it's probably something that really doesn't concern you.  If you apply that test to pedophilia or rape, then you'll see why those are crimes.

This is straying quite a ways from the Boy Scouts but I see it as related.  Many of you seem to think that no one has a right to conduct their lives or businesses in ways you disapprove of.  Disapproval should be an Olympic sport from the looks of things.  When did skins get so thin that knickers get twisted over women being allowed to collect bugs and light campfires?  Are girls destined to simply sell cookies and shut up?
I am at work and don't have the time so all I am going to say is when did any of us ask anyone to change?  We simply don't want the people you are defending to force the BSA to change.  You have taken this thread down a rabbit hole. Perhaps you should start a new thread, maybe on a different fourm. One more suitable for the topic you have chosen.

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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2018, 01:43:07 PM »
While I do believe that any and all propositions, opinions, beliefs espoused by the liberal left are based in, and formed from one or another form of deception- the real problem is not one of too much leftist policy, agenda, or attitudes- Nope.

The real trouble in the USA is the weak-knee, kowtow, impotent Right. Someone mentioned attacks on the first amendment, and yet, I'd be willing to bet, everything g they might say would/will remain protected because all of their issues remain mired in those familiar controlled opp. wedge issues.

A perfect example is the Civil Rights Act- oh, that was a definite change for the Good. Who would be willing to examine the fall-out, begin to think, and then say- Nope. It was not good for America or the ideals USA was founded upon. Look at it only from a business prospective. If you were a good businessman you should base your decisions on what is profitable, that which promotes and insures the continued success of your company. Nowadays there is another principle in place that must be first observed- Diversity.

Not really wanting to rant you guys out; from what other standpoint is free speech attacked on other than on a issue relating to Diversity?
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2018, 02:07:43 PM »
From girls in Boy Scouts to homos to race.  Man this thread has multipersonality disorder.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2018, 02:38:43 PM »
From girls in Boy Scouts to homos to race.  Man this thread has multipersonality disorder.

Sorry Max yours is a typical lack of thought that exemplifies the common man conservative
 civil rights apples to all protected classes not just race.

I don't mean to be rude, but that's just the way it is.
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Offline madmax

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2018, 02:47:54 PM »
Yeah yeah. I'm ignorant and deplorable.
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2018, 02:54:09 PM »
I don't think you read what Max wrote.  What he said was true and what you replied, Unknown, was both stupid and wrong.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2018, 03:49:17 PM »
I don't think you read what Max wrote.  What he said was true and what you replied, Unknown, was both stupid and wrong.

I did. He said I was writing about race, which is only a part of civil rights. What I said in every post in this thread is 100% correct.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2018, 03:52:00 PM »
Yeah yeah. I'm ignorant and deplorable.

Not deplorable, you just wish you were. Nope you are just a gun loving liberal, that is- You have a counter position on a few wedge issues that fit a "conservative" point of view- but in every other way just a liberal.
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2018, 04:19:24 PM »
From girls in Boy Scouts to homos to race.  Man this thread has multipersonality disorder.

Sorry Max yours is a typical lack of thought that exemplifies the common man conservative
 civil rights apples to all protected classes not just race.

I don't mean to be rude, but that's just the way it is.
And what defines a "protected class"?
I could argue everyone is in such a class in some way.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2018, 04:43:39 PM »
Federal and state law are what defines a protected class. you might argue that, but it would be an effort to find evidence of such being upheld

Sex, race, religion, sexual orientation are some of the protected classes. Just having those things as elements of your being is not an argument for everyone being part of a protected class. For instance if you are Male, Caucasian (white, European) Christian, Heterosexual/ that's what the others need protecting from....
 
Ain't it?
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Offline Orbean

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2018, 04:51:56 PM »
Federal and state law are what defines a protected class. you might argue that, but it would be an effort to find evidence of such being upheld

Sex, race, religion, sexual orientation are some of the protected classes. Just having those things as elements of your being is not an argument for everyone being part of a protected class. For instance if you are Male, Caucasian (white, European) Christian, Heterosexual/ that's what the others need protecting from....
 
Ain't it?

Bull.

So I am a bad guy because of my skin color, religion and sexual orientation. 
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Offline lgm

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Re: XXX SCOUTS OF AMERICA
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2018, 04:55:29 PM »
I understand what you are saying, & It is what it is,but doesn't mean it's right.  Everyone should be protected, protected from being wronged, stolen from, hurt,evil in general. Not from being left out or offended . All men are created equal. Nuff said.
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