Author Topic: Colclesser Project WIP  (Read 3384 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Colclesser Project WIP
« on: June 22, 2017, 12:28:16 PM »
As discussed here http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=13906.0, I figured I'd start a thread to post my progress as I take a stab at this.

I snapped a couple pics at the gun show and took some rough measurements.


I cut a digital pic to separate the blade and handle. I manipulated each section to get the correct scale, then pasted the pic back together. It is just shy of 10" OAL, about half blade and half haft...


I started with 1/4" thick 5160 and hammered it down to just over 1/8" thick. I cleaned up the bar on the grinder, cut out the profile, and started with a flat grind against a platen.


Changed to a slack belt to begin the convex grind(s). I marked the thickest part of the blade with a black Sharpie line. I think the cross section is reasonably close to original.


Balance point is slightly blade heavy right now. Hopefully, after heat treat, clean up, and a thin set of scales, the balance will be right at the pinch point just rear of the "guard". That should approximate the feel of the original.

The blank is just over 1/8" thick at the hilt and tapers down to about 1/16" at the tip and the butt. This is my second attempt at a distal taper. The first project, code named: Big A$$ Chopper, is still in progress. More on it later.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 12:48:30 PM by Sarge »
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline Quenchcrack

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2285
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2017, 01:09:48 PM »
Looking great, Sarge!  I have ground a few distal tapers and quite honestly, could not really appreciate the effect if produced.  Years ago, I bought a machete at the local Academy store.  It was made by Collins Axe and the machete blade had a distal taper.  The effect was that the blade bent in a smooth arc from the haft to the tip.  The practical effect was to lessen the impact on the wrist of flexing in use.  I have never found another machete made that way.
I guess he'd rather be in Colorado.
-John Denver

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2017, 01:26:33 PM »
Thank you, sir. Convex and distal and tapers are out of my comfort zone but I'll try.

That machete sounds interesting. I've never seen one.

I saw Collins axes in a hardware store the other day and the "Made in USA" sticker grabbed my attention. Upon closer inspection ... the microscopic letters stated handle made in USA. :(
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2017, 01:39:28 PM »
It's ACTUALLY HAPPENING! :shocked:     We're witnessing the birth of the WOLFHART! :banana:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

  • Supporting Member
  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 01:55:07 PM »
I am quite impressed Sarge.  First with the way you did the work to layout the blade and achieve the grind profile.  Secondly it looks like it will be as close to the original as it can be. 

We trust there will be at least two of them.   :thumbsup:
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 02:01:24 PM »
LOL the WOLFHART!

Thanks, wsdstan! Yes, at least two  :thumbsup:

"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline Yellowyak

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 1962
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 02:57:56 PM »
Looking great so far Sarge.

Offline imnukensc

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3003
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 03:05:53 PM »
Looks like some great work so far!   :thumbsup:
The universe is made up of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.

Offline Quenchcrack

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2285
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 05:45:08 PM »
I used to have a sign in my room that read "Hoof Hearted?".  It took my Mom many months to get it.
I guess he'd rather be in Colorado.
-John Denver

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2017, 08:08:11 PM »
LOL! It took me a minute.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline 1066vik

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 352
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 08:21:45 PM »
this is cool -- I am very interested in seeing how it comes out and think it would be awesome to have a chance to see a SXS comparison between yours and E's.

Online PetrifiedWood

  • Friction Fire Fellowship
  • Administrator
  • Belt Grinder
  • ******
  • Posts: 11237
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 12:15:02 AM »
Awesome!

I didn't expect to see this project started so soon. It's a real treat to see. Thanks for taking us along for the ride!

I can't remember if you mentioned it in the other thread, but have you chosen a handle material yet, and what kind of fasteners will you use?

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 08:46:25 AM »
Walnut scales, I'm sure ... nickel silver pins, I think.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline SwampHanger

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3505
  • River Rat Member
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2017, 03:42:06 AM »
You have done the best job I've seen in capturing the concept of this blade. The tip is  always an area that doesn't look right on most. You sir have nailed this thing.

Offline Spyder1958

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2350
  • Kracaneuner Tribe
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2017, 05:10:58 PM »
Wow, Everything Jimmy said.
Sarge why 5160, or did I miss something
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
Zig Ziglar

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 05:45:24 PM »
I was curious about that myself. :shrug:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 06:13:48 PM »
As always guys, thanks for the feedback. I chose 5160 for several reasons and none have anything to do with Kephart or the Colclesser Bros. 5160 is cheap and I have some on hand. I decided to use it in case I fouled up the convex grinds or the distal taper. I didn't want to waste a piece of O1. You guys know I mostly use O1 but I've started sending it out for heat treat. I've been reading about triple quenching 5160 and wanted to give it a try. Today, I HT this blade and a 15" chopper using that triple quench method. They are between the 1st and 2nd tempering cycles right now.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 06:31:05 PM »
COOL....my curiosity is satiated. 8)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

  • Supporting Member
  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 06:48:56 PM »
I don't know a great deal about steel but I did look 5160 up when it Sarge posted it.  It is mentioned that in the higher hardness range it  makes a "tough" steel for use in a knife.  Takes hardness from low 50's to low 60's.  58 to 60 mentioned in one article as its knife range.

Here is a link to it's properties with a few comments at the bottom about its suitability.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=5160
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 07:09:16 PM »
Yeah, I admit to Googling it myself. :-[    I'd never heard of it before, but that don't mean nuthin' 'cept I'm ignernt. :P

There was some discussion on its merits on Bladeforums by some of the knifemakers there.  Some were quenching in water, some in brine and some in oil.....I have no idea which is best. :shrug:
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 10:02:37 PM by wolfy »
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 07:32:05 PM »
This is what got me interested in 5160...

http://www.caffreyknives.net/js_test_blade_art.html

It's been posted, re-posted, cited, etc. on a number of sites. I'm not an ABS member or planning to take the J.S. test or anything - just looking to learn more about forging and heat treating.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline upthecreek

  • Charred Cloth Challenge
  • Global Moderator
  • Diamond Stone
  • *****
  • Posts: 5659
  • Friction Fire Fellowship & River Rat
    • my youtube
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 08:06:26 PM »
That's a great read Sarge

Creek
Axes Rock!

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 08:46:27 PM »
Thanks a lot, Sarge.....now I ain't quite as ignernt. ???
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline hayshaker

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 617
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2017, 07:42:31 AM »
just what was the prticular tool set-up and method to make the kephart.

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2017, 08:18:46 AM »
Thanks a lot, Sarge.....now I ain't quite as ignernt. ???
Ignernt! LOL


Hayshaker, I did change the set-up somewhat vs. what I usually do. I used the grinder with platen to profile the blank, distally taper the blade end and start all 4 bevels. I marked a line lengthwise where I wanted the thickest cross section, then beveled from the line toward the cutting edge and the spine on each side. I removed the platen to convex those bevels on slack belts. I put the platen back on to taper the tang.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline hayshaker

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 617
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2017, 10:19:27 AM »
4, bevels you should see some of my multi bevel knives.
they ai'nt deliberate either, oh boy

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2017, 10:41:22 AM »
Sarge, I am wondering if you are intending to add the varying-width, angular bevels to the spine's top edge also?   BTW.....I am VERY impressed with your attention to the detail of the original Colclesser design!  :thumbsup:      Never disregard the possibilities of a work project success story when undertaken by a good man with a serious case of OCD! :hail:
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 06:21:24 PM by wolfy »
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Spyder1958

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2350
  • Kracaneuner Tribe
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2017, 02:03:16 PM »
Thanks Sarge, Thats some good info from a master. Look forward to your progress
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
Zig Ziglar

Online PetrifiedWood

  • Friction Fire Fellowship
  • Administrator
  • Belt Grinder
  • ******
  • Posts: 11237
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2017, 04:00:12 PM »
Looking at the spear point and the rounded pommel, it might be a good "drilling" knife.

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2017, 07:31:41 PM »
I know whatcha mean, Hayshaker. I've had plenty of those multiple bevel angles ... some are still in the oops box under the workbench. Like I said, I started with 5160 just in case I had an oops.

Wolfy, the flat edge of the spine tapers from about 1/8" thick at the hilt to about 1/16" at the point (pre-sharpening). The thickest part of the blade cross section also tapers from the hilt to the tip. Hope that answers your question. If not, please forgive my 'ignernce'. Haha

Thanks, Spyder. I hope I can do it justice.

I had not thought about that, PW, but now that you mention it ... might be. 
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2017, 08:49:03 PM »
I cleaned up the blade tonight after heat treating it on Saturday.

After heat treat / tempering


Cleaned it up with 80 grit then 120 grit.


Got it ready for the second tempering cycle.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline OutdoorEnvy

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3804
  • Outdoor Junky Approved
    • OutdoorEnvy
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 08:47:22 AM »
Looking good Sarge!

 :popcorn:
Proverbs 27:17    "As iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend"
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 09:36:59 AM »
I'm likin' these progress pictures, Sarge! ;)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2017, 09:12:54 PM »
Got the scales mounted and mostly shaped.

Scales are black walnut with stainless pins.


Started with the small wheel attachment with a 1" diameter wheel.


Sanded down to 400 grit so far


Balances about where I hoped it would
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2017, 10:09:52 PM »
 :banana:

The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

  • Supporting Member
  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2017, 07:34:56 AM »
Sarge, this just gets better and better.  Wonderful job on this project.   :hail:
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline SwampHanger

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3505
  • River Rat Member
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2017, 09:40:46 AM »
I have a feeling your are gonna be making a lot more than two!

Offline OutdoorEnvy

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3804
  • Outdoor Junky Approved
    • OutdoorEnvy
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2017, 12:27:19 PM »
Man that is looking really really good Sarge!  I think you are on to something here finding a new niche in the knife market.  Walnut sure does look nice in Oklahoma...just sayin  :thumbsup:
Proverbs 27:17    "As iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend"
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/

Offline Dano

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 4972
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2017, 06:46:45 PM »
I've been enjoying reading this thread Sarge, you're really doing a great job on this project and paying homage to the original at the same time!!

Another thing I noticed is what nice walnut scales you have there.   They usually have a lot of open pores in the grain (which can add character) but I really like the nice tight grain of these.  They really are nice!!

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2017, 08:33:33 PM »
LOL! That's awesome, Wolfy!

Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback.  Dano, I sorted through about 50 blocks of that walnut to find a really straight grain, minimal pores, etc. Thanks for noticing!

I've got the second coat of Tru-Oil on the scales. Stay tuned....
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline Quenchcrack

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2285
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2017, 05:58:04 AM »
Excellent work, Sarge.  I agree you will be asked to make more than a few.
I guess he'd rather be in Colorado.
-John Denver

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2017, 11:54:51 AM »
Hey, Sarge........ANY NEWS?  :shrug: :drool:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline OutdoorEnvy

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3804
  • Outdoor Junky Approved
    • OutdoorEnvy
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2017, 12:31:12 PM »
I think it's been finished for a while.  He's gotten attached to it and doesn't want to give it up or even show the pictures for fear of the outdoor nuts that will camp out in his lawn as they await their knife to be finished.  It's a lot of pressure.  but still... a pic would be nice Sarge!   :pissed:

 :cheers:
Proverbs 27:17    "As iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend"
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/

Offline wolfy

  • Supporting Member
  • Belt Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 17600
  • "You want a toe? I can get you a toe." -Sobchak
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2017, 01:09:14 PM »
I have a sneaking suspicion that you've struck the tenpenny directly on the head! :doh:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

  • Supporting Member
  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2017, 02:29:24 PM »
Sarge must be on vacation or he got sick.  Someone should go by his house and see if he is there. 

It has been awhile since I wanted anything as bad as I want this.   :-*

Or maybe he is making a whole bunch to surprise us all at once.  Yeah, that has to be it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:36:58 AM by wsdstan »
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Online PetrifiedWood

  • Friction Fire Fellowship
  • Administrator
  • Belt Grinder
  • ******
  • Posts: 11237
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2017, 12:23:39 AM »
Oh, man! This looks great so far. Can't wait to see how the finished knife looks.

I would love to see it side by side with Becker's original Kephart.

Offline Sarge

  • Supporting Member
  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 2662
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2017, 05:36:48 PM »
Check my house to see if I'm there or to see if the knife is there? Haha.

I'm alive and well. Just been off the grid a couple days up in the Smokies. There were a bunch of nuts camped out in my yard when I got home.  :tent: :lol:

I don't know how long these Photobucket links will work but they seem to work for now Here are a couple shots of the finished blade.






An "action" shot!

I'm pleased with the overall look of it but I need to tweak it a bit. This one has a 4 3/4" blade and a 5" handle. The original has a 5" blade and a 4 3/4" handle. That's an easy fix on the next one. The pinch point on the original is more subtle than this one. I also need to work on the convex grind.

I really appreciate all your interest in this. Hope I can fine tune a knife that will pay due homage to the original.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart

Offline hayshaker

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 617
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2017, 07:15:05 PM »
Sarge I think ole' Horace would have been pleased.

Offline OutdoorEnvy

  • Water Stone
  • ***
  • Posts: 3804
  • Outdoor Junky Approved
    • OutdoorEnvy
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2017, 07:17:34 PM »
buddy that looks darn good.  the simple and classic look it has is the best clone I've seen to date!  for a first attempt I would be more than pleased. 

 :cheers:
Proverbs 27:17    "As iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend"
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/

Offline wsdstan

  • Supporting Member
  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 7896
Re: Colclesser Project WIP
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2017, 07:21:42 PM »
It really exceeds anything I have seen Sarge.  Well done.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)