Author Topic: Friction Fire Fellowship  (Read 127033 times)

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2012, 06:34:01 PM »
Thanks guys! :banana:

Offline MATT CHAOS

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2012, 07:05:02 PM »
Way to go!
:thumbsup:
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2012, 07:10:57 PM »
Yeah I finally can feel right about putting the FFF title back in my profile. :)

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2012, 06:58:19 AM »
MnSport..  you lost me at the 'coagulate' picture.       When your spinning the bow/stick into the hole, is that board on top of the one you put the dust on?  Your notch is lined up to the dust pile underneath on the bottom board?   

WW.


"Build" or "grow" might be a better term than "coagulate" WW.
 :)
Letting the coal get bigger so that it is less likely to go out when ya move it to the nest. The dust is a part of the process of "burning in" the divot, & helps to add to the bulk of the coal pile when you are actually trying to get a coal. So rather than waste it, I transfer it to the base board, knife blade, bark, etc. that I am gong to form the coal on, right under the notch I make.
 :)




@MnSportsman: Well, I vote you were successful. Not sure one necessarily needs to have the tinder bundle in hand when getting flame. Ya got fire by friction. Kinda like when airplane pilots say, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing." I guess another way of looking at it is you demonstrated success with an injury.

Perhaps you're thinking one should show his skill as repeatable (to minimize the fluke factor). Kinda like those who try to break the land speed record. They have to make two runs within an hour which are averaged together to get an official speed.


It is not my first time... I have done & can do better. I was angry that my hand was giving so much trouble...When things were going so well til right at the end, when it cramped up...
I wasn't happy that I didn't 'blow" it to flame. Obviously, I was close to flame or at flame when I dropped it, but "I" was not satisfied with "my" results. So I will do it again.
 :)
Thanks for the "success" vote
 :D


Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.

'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:

A) Spun up a coal,

B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and

C) It burst into a flame,

I would think that easily qualifies.

+1
 :thumbsup:


Thank ya both, Beanbag & Matt Chaos for yur votes also!
 :D


I will be doing this again, sometime in the next day or two. I want to satisfy myself, & also work on PT of the hand... I'll take pics again & try to show the other methods too.
:)



Then I will be "qualified", with no harm to any.
;)



I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2012, 08:50:53 AM »
I agree, your previous pics should qualify, but it's up to you to decide if you are satisfied with your effort. :)


Offline RBM

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2012, 10:43:22 AM »
Here you go.
This one is a mini set using Caesar Weed (Urena lobata) board and Goldenrod (Solidago fistulosa) spindle.


This one is more of a standard set using Seasoned Pine board and Dog Fennel (Eupatorium capillifolium) spindle.



Oh, and the bow and socket are seasoned scrub hickory. The cord is a strip off of either an old rubber tire or a fan belt. Is two coals with different friction woods enough?  ;D

Oops. I just realized I didn't blow the coal into flame with a tinder bundle. If you need me to do this I will.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 10:59:59 AM by RBM »
Robert

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2012, 11:28:18 AM »
That is a massive ember!

As for the tinder bundle...

I will leave that up to you to decide. At first I made an ember, but withdrew my membership until I was able to successfully get a flaming tinder bundle. With embers like the one in your picture I don't think you'll have any trouble at all! :thumbsup:


Offline RBM

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2012, 11:57:20 AM »
Well here you go anyway.





It was a rush job since I have other things to do. I would have done a nice fire lay and all with good natural materials but no time right now. That is why I just used a jute tinder bundle and some scrap wood shavings and twigs.

BTW, that makes three coals I spun up today.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 12:05:38 PM by RBM »
Robert

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2012, 12:11:26 PM »
Awesome, congrats RBM! I'll add you to the group right away. :)

Offline MATT CHAOS

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2012, 01:33:43 PM »
Way to go RBM!

 :thumbsup:
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Offline Red

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2012, 02:49:37 PM »
great job RBM! :thumbsup:
"Big drama next few hours.. But whatever happens, no matter what they tell you.. Don't let 'em take them chains off me.."

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2012, 08:05:42 PM »
 :thumbsup: RBM!


 :D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2012, 08:14:44 PM »
Congrats RBM! 

Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

 :-\

What if you woke up today, with only the things you thanked God for yesterday?

Offline RBM

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2012, 09:01:04 PM »
Thanks, Folks. But I have really been doing this for years now. Yes I do not always get coals but I do "most" of the time because of friction wood knowledge and experience and lots of practice.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

You will get it. Just keep on keeping on. It took me a year before I got my first coal. I would make it a point to work the firebow at least once a week and I still do. It took me another year before I got "consistent" coals.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:03:35 PM by RBM »
Robert

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2012, 10:47:27 PM »
Thanks, Folks. But I have really been doing this for years now. Yes I do not always get coals but I do "most" of the time because of friction wood knowledge and experience and lots of practice.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

You will get it. Just keep on keeping on. It took me a year before I got my first coal. I would make it a point to work the firebow at least once a week and I still do. It took me another year before I got "consistent" coals.

*Gulp* A year?!?  I gotta get this tomorrow! ;)

But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)
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Offline RBM

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2012, 03:07:02 PM »
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 08:06:56 PM by RBM »
Robert

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2012, 08:48:55 PM »
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
I actually thought of trying that way initially, as it seems the most 'realistic' scenario. In other words, I'd be whipping up a bow and spindle ONLY if every other course of action was unavailable.

But after trying it, I've decided it's gonna be optimum conditions before i ever get this thing working.

I didn't try today. I think I burnt out yesterday trying too hard in that heat, so I kinda did other stuff today. Maybe tomorrow or Monday.

By the way, I'm using pine. Any good? I've had black dust but no ember yet...

KK
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2012, 08:49:57 PM »
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.


You are right in that (underlined).. If you have not done it before... going out & doing it will be a lot harder if you do not know the woods to look for when you are out in the sticks.
 When I went out for this stuff earlier this week to do this, I took the stuff right from the woods... made it work, but I dropped my nest... My fault.. But I didn't just get the stuff out of a woodpile or off a shelf somewhere. The whole works came from the woods. All natural & harvested in the hour right before I made the sets. I made fire, but didn't get it on film...
So I'll do it over... Done it before... I'll do it again...
 ;)
But you are speaking the truth. It is harder to do out in the sticks, than it is in an easy environment. Knowing how dry things are & what materials will work is a big part of the doins... If ya make the wrong choices in the picking.. you'll regret it in the doins..
 :D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2012, 08:53:13 PM »
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

 ;)
Even Spruce is better than pines.
 :)


Just for you K.K.:
Manitoba Trees (<<--Click me . I am a Adobe PDF file). ;)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 09:00:31 PM by MnSportsman »
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2012, 08:58:22 PM »
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

 ;)
Even Spruce is better than pines.
:)

Ahhhh... maybe THAT explains my dismal failures... Grrrr.  "Dead cotton wood"... "Poplar" to me, right?

Thanks!
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2012, 09:01:59 PM »
I put a link up for ya.. in the post above...Check that out.
;)


It may help a bit.
:D


G'Luck!
:)
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2012, 09:03:02 PM »
I put a link up for ya.. in the post above...Check that out.
;)


It may help a bit.
:D


G'Luck!
:)
Thanks buddy!  :D
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2012, 09:09:25 PM »
Sure!
 :D


We all work together to learn better ways....
 ;)


Somewhere in the many Friction Fire Topics posted in the last month... Easy rider75 or Fire Steel75, or someone...(Can't remember now) put up a list of wood types that are listed in the scale of how they do with Friction fire use.
Ya may want to search that list & compare it to the trees ya have in your area. I have it a bit easy here, since I have been around the area I live for a while, thus knowing the trees that are around here, & which are decent, & which ones are crap.. Since you just got up in the area you are, comparing the two. The list, & the trees in your area... might help. But even a dry red Cedar board from the local lumber yard or mill would do ya better than using Pine, IMO....
 ;)
As I said...G'Luck & Good Fortune!
 :D
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 09:11:49 PM by MnSportsman »
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2012, 08:10:38 PM »
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2012, 08:21:03 PM »
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!

If you can show yourself making fire with it, I don't see why it shouldn't count. I would think any primitive friction fire method should count, bow drill, pump drill, fire thong, fire saw, fire plough, etc.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2012, 08:52:28 PM »
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!

If you can show yourself making fire with it, I don't see why it shouldn't count. I would think any primitive friction fire method should count, bow drill, pump drill, fire thong, fire saw, fire plough, etc.
This challenge has peaked my interest much more than gathering twig bundles, or some other inane exercises. The challenge will be to make a pump drill with natural materials, and no workshop bench tools.  8)
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2012, 09:09:29 PM »
That would be truly something special!

I did some reading about the Egyptian bowdrill the night before my attempt. They actually used them to bore holes in stone. What they did was use copper tubes on the end of the spindle shafts, and they would use abrasive sand to help the copper abrade a circular cut into softer rock.

I know you said that you aren't good with a bow drill, but if you found a suitable wide flat rock, and found it's balance point, you could bore a hole through it using that method and then use it as your spindle weight for the pump drill. Final balancing can be achieved by "pecking" a method of stone work ancient cultures used whereby they shaped rocks by using a hammer stone to break small bits off the surface of the stone being worked. You'd simply peck the heavy side to remove material until the spindle and weight are satisfactorily balanced.

In my area there are a lot of flat, relatively soft pieces of sandstone with pretty consistent thickness that would be easy to work, but they are all angular in shape and would take a lot of pecking and grinding on other stones to take on a circular shape.

Another possibility would be to make a round, flat basket arrangement around the spindle and use small gravel to add weight and balance it.

I've seen weights made from layers of plywood glued together, but to do that out of natural materials you'd need to do some serious carving and flattening of the individual wood layers on both sides, and strong natural glues are time consuming to make.

In any case if you do make one, when you consider the effort involved it would definitely be best to make the spindle such that you can replace the tip every so often.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2012, 11:46:09 PM »
I have a plan for the "fly wheel" weight that will knock your socks off (remember those words).
I'm actually kind of excited about this. I have my spindle picked out, and just need a hearth board.  Gotta go look at that list I posted.
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Offline Angerland

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2012, 12:41:07 AM »
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!
"We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home."

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2012, 05:58:50 AM »
A couple of hints I read about in one book or another...

Screeching sound means the divot has glazed over. You can stop drilling and scrape the divot and spindle to remove the glaze.

Adding a few grains of fine dusty sand to the divot can help prevent it from glazing.

I know the first one is true from my own experiences this past week. Haven't tried the second one.

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2012, 09:34:29 AM »
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!

Same.  Sucks, eh?

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Offline beanbag

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« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2012, 10:07:01 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 12:46:12 PM by beanbag »

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2012, 10:17:54 AM »
Hmm... Maybe we are experiencing different results with different woods?

The juniper set I've been using has only screeched on me one time. After scraping the shiny black stuff off the spindle end and out of the divot, it stopped the screeching sound. I believe it's chatter from the glaze allowing the spindle to slip, and then grab, slip and then grab as it rotates in the divot. When mine was screeching it wasn't producing any dust. After scraping it out (and re-shaping the spindle end so it wasn't a perfect match for the divot) it began to produce dust again and was relatively quiet. I hadn't drilled down deep enough for the sides of the spindle to contact the divot yet at that point.

Last year when I tried using regular pine from a 2X4, I got a lot of screeching and hardly any dust. I think the resin in the wood contributes to the glazing and chatter.

But, I still need to get a lot more embers under my belt before I can say for certain if this is what's happening.

Offline beanbag

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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2012, 10:26:46 AM »
[
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 12:46:40 PM by beanbag »

Offline LetsRock

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2012, 12:51:01 PM »
My experience with screeching is usually due to sap/ resin or moisture in the wood. Can also get screeching if the spindle drills too deep into the fireboard. Can widen the divot or shave off the sides of the spindle making it skinnier. Often times if the divot is too deep the spindle will bind and prevent smooth action (ie. spindle flip-outs). A general rule of thumb is the fireboard should be no thicker than the diameter of the spindle. Example, if the spindle is 1/2" diameter then the fireboard should be 1/2" or less thick. This improves chances of success and efficiency as there's less fireboard mass absorbing the heat (more of the heat is directed to the dust pile in the notch). Also, it's quicker and easier to fill the notch with dust and get it to critical temperature.

I occasionally use sand to help the spindle bite into the fireboard when doing the hand drill. Usually with a fresh set. Saves wear & tear on the hands. I rarely need to do this with the bow drill (fire bow).
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 12:52:40 PM by LetsRock »

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2012, 01:00:52 PM »
So here's a silly question. I've heard a 'fail' using waxed paper to catch the coal under the notch. I even saw one guy cheat and use char cloth.
So what is the consensus here of what to use under the hearth board to catch the coal for transfer to the bundle?
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« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2012, 01:22:15 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 12:47:05 PM by beanbag »

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2012, 02:08:00 PM »
My experience with screeching is usually due to sap/ resin or moisture in the wood. Can also get screeching if the spindle drills too deep into the fireboard. Can widen the divot or shave off the sides of the spindle making it skinnier. Often times if the divot is too deep the spindle will bind and prevent smooth action (ie. spindle flip-outs). A general rule of thumb is the fireboard should be no thicker than the diameter of the spindle. Example, if the spindle is 1/2" diameter then the fireboard should be 1/2" or less thick. This improves chances of success and efficiency as there's less fireboard mass absorbing the heat (more of the heat is directed to the dust pile in the notch). Also, it's quicker and easier to fill the notch with dust and get it to critical temperature.

I occasionally use sand to help the spindle bite into the fireboard when doing the hand drill. Usually with a fresh set. Saves wear & tear on the hands. I rarely need to do this with the bow drill (fire bow).

That is very true! I noticed that the pile of dust can't easily ignite until it has accumulated into a high enough pile to fill the notch in the fire board.  Having a taller board means you have to drill that much longer to make the dust pile high enough to reach where the heat is.

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2012, 02:13:18 PM »

That is very true! I noticed that the pile of dust can't easily ignite until it has accumulated into a high enough pile to fill the notch in the fire board.  Having a taller board means you have to drill that much longer to make the dust pile high enough to reach where the heat is.
You may have just given the Key for why so many people get frustrated. This one "secret" is a pearl!
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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2012, 02:54:41 PM »
I had to dig through 58 pages of my old photobucket album to find this picture...

But, this is a real prehistoric fire board artifact from the Fremont Culture people that lived in Utah around 1000 years ago. There are other artifacts in the display case. Sadly, the rest of the kit wasn't there so it's impossible to tell if it was a bowdrill or hand drill fire board. But, perhaps there is something to be learned from the size and shape of the board, and in particular the shape of the notches, remembering of course that they would have been notched with stone tools. It's possible that access to steel knives or saws would have affected the shape of the notches they used.


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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2012, 03:11:03 PM »
So here's a silly question. I've heard a 'fail' using waxed paper to catch the coal under the notch. I even saw one guy cheat and use char cloth.
So what is the consensus here of what to use under the hearth board to catch the coal for transfer to the bundle?

Just about anything can be used as a coal-catcher (aka ember-pan). I often use a dead leaf that's usually within arms reach. I also use folded out cardboard boxes (such as a cereal box) when demonstrating on video (helps with contrast). I've seen folks even use their knife or hatchet blade as a coal-catcher. A wood chip, shaving, another flat piece of wood, bark, etc... are often used as well.

Can even have no coal-catcher and push the dust pile & coal on the blade of your knife to transfer to the tinder bundle. Some folks won't even transfer the coal, instead just pile pieces of punkwood on and around the coal and blow that to flame. Others will even use the tinder bundle itself as the coal-catcher (fireboard is set on top of the bundle). Basically, you just need a place for the coal to form and way to get tinder around it.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 03:28:46 PM by LetsRock »

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2012, 03:19:58 PM »
Thanks, LR!

PW: The first thing I notice about that board is that some of the divots/sockets/whatever don't go all the way through the board. The two on the right end do, the others don't. All appear used.
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Offline NWYeti

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2012, 05:42:05 PM »
Here is my entry for FFF.
The spindle and hearth are Cottonwood. Socket and bow are Hawthorne


Tinder bundle of Cedar and Cottonwood buds


Thanks
-Chris

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2012, 07:16:39 PM »
Good enough NWYeti! Just go to your profile and send a member group application as per the instructions in the first post, and someone will add you to the group. :)

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2012, 11:39:31 PM »
I am gonna do this, but when it isn't 100 degrees with 72 degree dewpoints.

I have never once, made a friction fire out of all the fires I have made. I will earn that orange lettering ;)

I even have some cedar on hand.

Does the hearth board need to be the same wood as the spindle?
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Offline NWYeti

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2012, 12:04:36 AM »
I am gonna do this, but when it isn't 100 degrees with 72 degree dewpoints.

I have never once, made a friction fire out of all the fires I have made. I will earn that orange lettering ;)

I even have some cedar on hand.

Does the hearth board need to be the same wood as the spindle?

I find that I've had the best results with making the spindle and hearth from the same stick. Also Cottonwood is a little more forgiving than some other woods.
-NWYeti

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2012, 12:09:48 AM »

I find that I've had the best results with making the spindle and hearth from the same stick. Also Cottonwood is a little more forgiving than some other woods.
-NWYeti
Never hear much about cottonwood, so that's interesting. I have tons of it around here.
How about American Elm?  I'm up to my neck in that crap, too.
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Offline NWYeti

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2012, 11:11:32 PM »
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2012, 11:33:58 PM »
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".
She's using the root for the hearth board?  How about the spindle?
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Offline NWYeti

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Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2012, 11:56:04 PM »
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".
She's using the root for the hearth board?  How about the spindle?

I think she just uses it for the hearth board but I'll have to ask her the next time I see her. Thomas Elpel also references it in Participating in Nature but I don't recall if he actually says that he uses the root wood for both.