Author Topic: Nuisance animals and ethics  (Read 29626 times)

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Offline skandic

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Nuisance animals and ethics
« on: February 05, 2015, 02:33:53 PM »
I struggled a bit about whether or not to start this thread but I think it's something that is deserving of discussion. We may not all agree with one another but there's no reason why we can't express our views and opinions without causing hard feelings, I hope.

Depending on where you live, the animals that are at times considered as nuisance animals will vary greatly. I'm going to attempt to explain how things are in my part of the world and encourage you to do the same in an attempt to better understand one another.

The northern half of this province is what some people would call wilderness, but is known simply to us that live here as ''the bush". It's also a large area, roughly half the size of Texas with a total population less than that of many small cities, with the majority being aboriginal (Cree, Dene and Metis.) As such, wildlife laws do not apply to them because native people are exempt.

First, bears: bears are fully protected under our game laws and require a licence to hunt or shoot. The exception to this is when they become aggressive, or a nuisance. We have the right to defend ourselves and to protect property, so bears can legally be shot without the usual hunting licence in such cases. Even when hunting bears during a regular hunting season, provincial law does not require anyone to keep the meat, unlike with other game animals where it is illegal to discard an edible animal. In other words, bears aren't necessarily considered edible in this province, although anyone may certainly keep the meat if they wish. The vast majority of bears killed here every year, whether it's nuisance bears or those taken during a hunting season, are simply left in the bush. This is just the way it is here.

Another that comes to mind are squirrels. Ours are Red Squirrels and are classified as a fur bearing animal and therefore are regulated under our trapping laws. A trapping licence is required, and they may be shot,  trapped or snared.  This is also another animal that we do not eat. These too are a great nuisance around buildings. They are very destructive, chewing practically anything. If they get inside a cabin they will chew up bedding, mattresses and whatever else they can, and make quite a mess. I've seen them chew electrical wiring inside walls, destroy insulation and chew holes completely through walls. Any found near a building are often shot and simply discarded to provide a meal for whatever bird or animal that finds it.

Fish: I know very few people that will eat burbot. It's definitely ugly, but I have had it and it's quite good.
The above are considered as edible by some, though not by most. None are eaten by the vast majority of people here. I only know of one person that has actually eaten squirrel (as part of a survival course) and his comments weren't favourable.

So, it can be seen that one man's food is not another's. It all comes down to the individual's choice, so really there is no right or wrong. Pick your critter and eat it, or not, and since I'm no man's judge I'll try not to judge anyone for their preferences.

So, what animals do you have in your area that may or may not be considered edible? What about snakes? I know some people do eat them, but for those of you that shoot them and don't eat them, what do you do with them? Or anything else that you personally don't eat, but have to dispatch at times?

I'm curious to see the responses since there are a lot of birds and animals common only to certain areas and what's acceptable in one area may not be in another.
 

Offline kanukkarhu

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Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 03:09:36 PM »
For where I am, and where I was raised (Northern Ontario) the bear and squirrel thing holds true as well. I know that around here (where I live now) coyotes are a huge problem, and farmers love it when they're shot. We don't eat them either. Timber wolves are here now too, and they're also hunted and not eaten. Crows get shot and not eaten as well.

I personally think that if an animal is abundant enough to be a nuisance, and by that I mean threatening life or property, it ceases to be 'game' and becomes vermin. I personally don't like to shoot problem animals - I'd prefer to find another solution - but for many of these animals there doesn't seem to be a way for them to coexist with us once they start damaging and killing etc. it's not a nice scenario, and it makes me kinda sad, but that's the way it is sometimes.

Bears are really bad. While I've eaten bear from the bush, I wouldn't touch it from near a settlement. What they eat gets assimilated right to their flesh (like pork) and unless you know what it's eaten, and when, it can be pretty gross. (That's why there's a waiting period to slaughter critters like pigs - to let the crap get out of their system.)

So for my two cents, I'm not eating a problem bear. In fact, I'm not eating any bear. It's just a choice I've made. They're largely considered inedible up here by most folks anyway, and for a lot of folks eating them would be like someone from say, Nevada, eating a coyote. Just kinda not done.

Good thread.


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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 03:44:27 PM »
I live on a small farm adjacent to river bottom country in the great plains area of western South Dakota.  The only edible creatures here are deer and antelope and a few squirrels.  We have a lot of pests and predators.  The predators are coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions, feral cats, and dogs.  I don't consider any of them edible.  We have to get a license to shoot lions or bobcats.  You can shoot a lion if it is a problem lion coming in and killing your sheep or hanging out at your farmstead.  The game warden usually will come out and kill them if you don't want to do it yourself.  We have a season on them and most folks out here get a license just in case they hang around.

Bobcats are not much of a problem except they kill a few pets and will take a lamb if they can.  They are not as protected as lions but are protected as furbearers. They don't bother me and I don't shoot them.  Coyotes are pretty much dead on sight where I live.  The government flies ranches and shoots them out of planes to keep them under control.  When the prices of pelts are high a lot of folks go after them including calling them in.  Feral dogs are problems when they get in ranchers sheep or get in a running pack.  Feral cats are not much of a problem but they usually get in the barn and run the "good" cats off.  My neighbor cleaned his supply of cats out a couple of years ago.  One barn yielded about 30 of them. 

Raccoons and skunks are disposed of as quickly as possible by most people I know.  Skunks in particular are the number one carrier of rabies and raccoons carry it as well.  One came after my neighbor awhile back and ran him into his shop.  In the winter raccoons bring enough money sometimes to trao them and sell to the fur buyer.  You have to have a fur license for some of this unless you own the land.  I understand that some people eat raccoons, I haven't done that yet.

On the fish in my reservoir; if I catch a carp I throw it on the bank.  I eat a few bluegills and throw all the bass back in as I like to catch them more than eat them.   

We don't have enough squirrels here to cause us problems and since I don't mind them around unless they start tossing the baby birds out of the nests I leave them alone.  If they start tossing then they are goners.

The snakes at my place are water snakes or bull snakes and we let them alone as they are good to have around, especially in the barns and around the grain bins.  The bull snakes get a lot of mice.

Like most areas there are a lot of critics who like to condemn the shooting and trapping of predators and it is mostly from folks who live in town or cities who don't have problems with the animals in question.  Our society has "humanized" animals with cartoons and movies to the point that some folks think they are just the nicest things around.  I guess if we should give them a raccoon to put in their garage or shop while they are gone and leave a couple of bags of feed or cattle cake for them to scatter about and foul they might think a bit differently.  When one them gets rabies and bites somebody its a pretty expensive process to get the shots.  I trap a few raccoons each year and have not made an appreciable dent in their population. 

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Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 04:15:46 PM »
Outside of what is considered vermin or varmints around here like coyotes, the list may, at times, include game or furbearing critters like beaver, raccoons or badgers.  If they are causing property damage like the flooding of prime farm ground or established housing areas, digging holes in stock dams or causing crop degradation they can become pretty destructive.  When fur prices are low and there is no interest in trapping them to keep their populations in check, they go on 'the list' and are eliminated or thinned back to a manageable level by less desirable means.  Same goes for woodchucks, squirrels, etc.  I have no problem with that.  I've eaten raccoon and beaver, but more as a novelty at a rendezvous than anything else.  Most people don't eat them & I don't fault them for that.

One popular game animal that can become a real problem are whitetail deer.  They were so thick around here, a few years back, that farmers who never even hunted deer as a game animal before were being issued permits that allowed them to shoot as many of the does and antler-less deer as they could.  Some of these animals were taken to local lockers and processed into burger to feed the hungry through various state programs.  That was a good thing!  Eventually the numbers of them overwhelmed the system and they were just hauled to the local landfills.  Nobody wanted them.....there were just too many.  I heard reports of as many as 8-12 animals per day being shot off out of a herd of over 150 animals in one hay field!  Bear in mind, that this was during an 'exceptional' category drought and hay loss spelled financial ruin to the landowner who depended on those hay bales to feed his cow/calf herd during winter.  The deer had become vermin just through overpopulation.  EHD eventually came to the 'rescue' and nearly wiped them all out. :'(    That's really beside the point, however.  I think almost ANY animal can be in the 'inedible' category depending on location and circumstance. :shrug:
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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2015, 04:22:25 PM »
Jeez wolfy.I could fill a busload or two of hunters.for harvesting "overrunning deer".
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2015, 04:34:19 PM »
 My short answer on this topic is...


"As long as you are "legal", "safe", and are considerate of others property in what you do, in the area you are doing it, do what you like.".
 ;)


 MY long answer would likely be just that... long.


Maybe later on I will post again another time. I "tread softly" in this type of topic now a days. It will be interesting reading I would guess though...
 :)
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Offline upthecreek

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2015, 04:43:32 PM »
If it causes me or mine harm... kill it. There is nothing I enjoy than my relationship with mother nature, but she can be a very cruel mistress. I am very aware of our previous thread skandic and have no opinion for nor against your reaction to the situation presented to you. However I'd probably done exactly the same thing.

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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2015, 04:46:14 PM »
If it causes me or mine harm... kill it. There is nothing I enjoy than my relationship with mother nature, but she can be a very cruel mistress. I am very aware of our previous thread skandic and have no opinion for nor against your reaction to the situation presented to you. However I'd probably don't exactly the same thing.

Creek

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At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2015, 04:50:21 PM »
typos...  :doh:  I'd done the same thing

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 06:21:31 PM »
Around here it's coyotes. They eat a lot of domestic cats. They also eat the sheep as well. We had a big loud pack of them in the gully behind the house a few weeks ago. It sounded like they were right outside the window!

Also mice and chipmunks like to chew the siding on the house and get into the attic. I have dispatched quite a few chipmunks working with my jack russel. She "trees" them behind the evaporative cooler and then I take them out with an airgun. Chipmunks are really cute and my wife loves them. I like them up to the point they start damaging the house and then it's time to go.

We have rabbits eating the landscaping too, but they never eat so much as to cause a problem so I leave them alone. We only very rarely see snakes, maybe 1-2 per year. I leave them alone too, but I do probe around with my walking stick before stepping over a large rock, just in case.

Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 06:30:30 PM »
Some good detailed information there guys, thanks. :)
In the far north there really aren't a whole lot of troublemakers except the bears and squirrels as I noted previously. And wolverines in some places but they're by no means common.
There are no: snakes, raccoons, coyotes, badgers, skunks, rats, deer, ticks, pigeons, pigs/hogs and maybe others I'm forgetting. Farther south it's a different story.

Beavers are a huge problem farther south in the more settled/populated regions. Sometimes there's a bounty put on them, or open season to reduce their numbers. It's incredible how much damage to roads and property they can cause. Some people do eat them but it's more common among the native people I think.

Coyotes are another big problem some years, dealt with much the same as beavers, but I've never heard of anyone ever sinking their teeth into one.  ;D

Wild boars are really gaining ground as well in the southern part of the province, just as they are in many parts of Canada and the U.S.
They might just be the biggest upcoming problem that's only going to get worse. I know some people do eat them, but I have never even seen one.
As wolfy mentioned, a lot of these animals could be put to good use feeding the needy. Our foodbanks in the cities allow wild meat to be donated to those in need, and I think it's a great way to help people as well as reduce unwanted/out of control game numbers.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 06:45:26 PM »
Some good detailed information there guys, thanks. :)

Coyotes are another big problem some years, dealt with much the same as beavers, but I've never heard of anyone ever sinking their teeth into one.  ;D



I never had either, UNTIL going through the list of things that were consumed on the Lewis & Clark Expedition.  I can't recall exactly, the number, but incredibly, it was more than one! :[
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Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2015, 06:57:23 PM »
I never had either, UNTIL going through the list of things that were consumed on the Lewis & Clark Expedition.  I can't recall exactly, the number, but incredibly, it was more than one! :[

I suspect a lot of things that we turn our noses up at nowadays would look pretty darn good if a guy gets hungry enough. ;D

Offline Boreas

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2015, 07:08:49 PM »
These debates crop up quite frequently in my province next door. Recently there was controversy over coyote tournaments in an area with coyote bounties.. There's a growing population of feral pigs, deemed as agricultural pests like rats rather than wildlife. Whitetails have huge bag limits in some areas to control the spread of chronic wasting disease. Wolves are still controlled with poison and aerial shooting to relieve pressure on both cattle and endangered caribou herds. Commercial fishermen have left hundreds of burbot on the ice while harvesting the more popular walleye and whitefish. Dandelions are doused in herbicides to make way for a monoculture of grass. And the list goes on..
Choosing which species should live to maintain a certain state in an ecosystem which has be highly augmented by human impact is tricky. Should we control only introduced species, native species which are increased in number and are problematic due to human interaction, or species which are naturally occurring and behaving but pose a threat to our human existence?
Thought provoking topic Skandic.

Offline Dano

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 05:13:03 AM »
Our largest would be coyotes.  There is no limit as to numbers, but you must have a hunting license if not on your own land and written permission from the land owner.

Feral pigs, the same as coyotes.  However, you have to euthanize it if trapped at the trap location, or immediately upon removal from the trap location.  Eating them is not recommended due to the number of diseases encountered in tested animals.  They also must exhibit some of the European characteristics, or have adapted to living in the wild, if not.  Otherwise, it's a hog and not allowed to be hunted.  If it has larger hind quarters, leave it alone....I guess that's a hog.  Also, and I found this interesting, a fee can not be charged to hunt wild or feral pigs unless you are a permitted nuisance animal remover.

Any of the fur bearing animals can be live trapped and released in the same county or euthanized only if you are the landowner or tenant.  Otherwise, you have to have written permission from the land owner and the animal falls under the hunting/trapping guidelines and seasons.

Another caveat is that the animals on our list (about 20) must only be harvested while causing damage, with exception to coyotes and feral pigs.

Offline Duece111

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Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 06:34:00 AM »
Feral pigs are just becoming a problem here govt is scrambling to fix it but as usual doing a horrible job of it,coyote open season,rabbits,skunks squirrels all the same.... Porvided you are not inside town limits,i would be pretty stealthy if did that😇
D
As for burbot if i done eat it goes back down the hole,i do eat them though they are a huge PI The A to clean but man they are good!!!we used to keep a nail on the side of the iceshack so we can nail it wall and " peel " the skin off it,whole tail is more or less good meat
D
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:39:01 AM by Duece111 »

Offline Indiana Hillbilly

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 06:47:09 AM »
Ours would be coyotes also. They are over populated and as a result, our rabbit numbers have went down. Some people trap or hunt for the pelts to sell, others just shoot. I do hunt rabbit and squirrel, but I do eat the meat. Yummy!!!

Raccoons and such are hunted and trapped just for the pelt mainly also. Beaver and muskrat can be destructive to farm ponds, so they are delt with either by trapping or shot. Which is not leagal to hunt beaver or muskrat unless they are problem animals to your property.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 07:39:38 AM »
Jeez wolfy.I could fill a busload or two of hunters.for harvesting "overrunning deer".
Sorry for the misunderstanding, MM, but those 'unlimited open' permits were issued only to the individual landowner upon request.  Nobody else could do it for him and all animals shot were required to be turned over to the DNR & then they dealt with them from there.  Most were utilized for food, but that late in the year, there wasn't much meat on them anyway.   They were starving to death or they wouldn't have become the problem that they did.  It was unbelievable, the number of haystacks or big round bales that the herd could consume in one night! ???
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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 07:51:28 AM »
It's sad to see any animal starving.

I have eaten a lot of the things 95 percent of FL folks wouldn't.  The 5 percent are usually FL Crackers.  Not a derogatory term.  They are the born and raised for generations in FL.  Cracker comes from the crack of the whip OVER not on the cattles' backs to herd them.

I have not heard of anybody eating coyotes or any kind of sea bird.  Of course any ocean mammals like dolphin, whales, or manatees are strictly protected.  The Seminoles did eat manatee I believe.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 10:03:53 AM »
In New Brunswick and Nova Scotia you may only shoot game animals within the appropriate season with the appropriate lisence and tags.
That being said, rats, squirrels, racoons and porcupines causing damage are "considered" fair game and likely wouldn't get you into trouble however...
The legal thing to do is to call DNR to have them trapped or shot by DNR Officer if in the country and to call an exterminator if in urban area.
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Offline vallehombre

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 10:37:11 AM »
The approach in my family has always been not to kill anything you are not going to eat unless it is about to eat you.

On my place and where I generally trek there are no nuisance animals outside of humans.  This approach has been beneficial to me personally with skunks, badgers, racoons, coyotes, squirrels, black bear, deer, elk, eagles, hawks and all down the line.  Animals in the wild that have never been hassled by humans are actually very accepting when not threatened. We're not talking petting zoo here but you get the idea.

It might be necessary to rethink that approach with a Brown Bear or lion but there are no Browns around the SW and anyone who spends much time in the outback knows to watch carefully in lion country and having a dog and firearm along is a good idea. One encounter with a full grown lion will make a believer out of anyone, trust me.

The way I see it the critters were here first and they have the true title. Me, I'm just a tourist. Sometimes there is a squirrel in the roof, a mouse in the kitchen (the cat's getting old too), a bird flying in the door, a skunk waddling to the compost pile or gophers and rabbits raiding the garden.

I like that.



Offline wannabe

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 02:11:49 PM »
Sorry for the slight derail but if any Canadian members have any dried or tanned pelts they like to get rid of, I will gladly give them a good home. That goes triple for antlers. Back to the very interesting and informative thread...

Offline arngmechanic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2015, 04:59:49 PM »
Out here in arkansas, it's coyote and crow. Crows kill owls an I won't have that lol. And coyotes destroy 6 billion dollars worth of livestock a year. So we roll em and use the pelts if they dot have mange. And if they are healthy, I personally eat them. Tastes like beef


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Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2015, 11:44:04 AM »
Out here in arkansas, it's coyote and crow. Crows kill owls an I won't have that lol. And coyotes destroy 6 billion dollars worth of livestock a year. So we roll em and use the pelts if they dot have mange. And if they are healthy, I personally eat them. Tastes like beef
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You are the first person I've ever heard of to actually eat coyotes. I know that in some cultures dogs are commonly eaten. I would assume that coyotes would be comparable. What methods do you use when cooking them, and are there any parts in particular that are best? I'm merely curious. I don't anticipate trying one any time soon.  ;D

Offline arngmechanic

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Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2015, 11:53:27 AM »
Well you have to make sure they are healthy. Most of them out here are missing a LOT of fur, but when you get a good one, just quarter it like you would a rabbit. Freeze the meat before you wash it, then before you cook it, scrub it, trim it, de-fur it(hair likes to stick to it ever while scrubbing, so always double check) then season with salt and pepper to taste, cut in strips, fry in olive pile over medium heat. There is not really a best cut, but the anatomy of dogs puts the hip as the most dense so that's the "best cut" if there is one


Edit: if there is any of the pelt missing patches of fur, DONT EAT IT! that's mange and has the chance to kill you if you consume it

Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2015, 11:58:14 AM »
Well you have to make sure they are healthy. Most of them out here are missing a LOT of fur, but when you get a good one, just quarter it like you would a rabbit. Freeze the meat before you wash it, then before you cook it, scrub it, trim it, de-fur it(hair likes to stick to it ever while scrubbing, so always double check) then season with salt and pepper to taste, cut in strips, fry in olive pile over medium heat. There is not really a best cut, but the anatomy of dogs puts the hip as the most dense so that's the "best cut" if there is one


Edit: if there is any of the pelt missing patches of fur, DONT EAT IT! that's mange and has the chance to kill you if you consume it

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Although I don't anticipate eating one, it's still good knowledge to have from someone that speaks from experience rather than rumour or hearsay. :thumbsup:

Offline arngmechanic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2015, 12:00:11 PM »
Yeah man! Always a pleasure. At leas yall didn't make fun of me for it lol :)


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Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2015, 12:16:15 PM »
Yeah man! Always a pleasure. At leas yall didn't make fun of me for it lol :)
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I try not to judge others for their practices or beliefs (though I know I'm not always successful.) I don't necessarily believe there's a right or wrong way of doing things as much as there's different ways of doing things. I know of many people that eat things I would not (unless I'm starving :))), including my wife, who is aboriginal. In fact, I credit her for opening my eyes to the fact that just because I don't eat something, that doesn't mean it's not perfectly edible. I think we grow up with preconceived notions of what's edible and what isn't, but it many cases it's just something in our heads telling us that something is no good to eat, when in fact the opposite might be true.

Offline arngmechanic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2015, 12:29:21 PM »
I really like that way of thinking. What critters did she open your eyes to?


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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2015, 12:32:25 PM »
Phew.  NOT making fun at all.  But eating coyote is hard core.  Good advice on the mange factor.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2015, 02:06:44 PM »
I really like that way of thinking. What critters did she open your eyes to?
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Nothing new in the way of critters, but rather the parts of them. The intestines of fish for one.
And on large animals like moose, parts of the stomach. The head is also completely consumed (though not the brains) including the chin, nose and jaws. A bit of an odd sight seeing a jawbone on a plate because of the teeth staring back at you ;D, but it's the tender meat that is wanted. Eyes are another.

I know people that have eaten muskrat as well, with one person saying how good it is and another saying the exact opposite, so as with anything else it's a matter of personal preference.
Porcupine is supposed to be good, and lynx too, although I've yet to try either.
I do know that compared to many parts of the world, we here in North America are a bit squeamish and fussy about what we eat. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it does seem like it.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2015, 02:24:50 PM »
I remember the first 'offbeat' thing I ever ate was half of a big King salmon head.  Half a head was big enough for a single serving and it covered a large dinner plate.  My uncle out in Washington state was a logger and machinist who did some machine work for the local native fishermen and traded goods for services.  He split the severed head lengthwise and simmered the halves in a large pot along with some spices that were probably just pickling spice from the look of it.  He proceeded to show us how to dissect the head in layers, starting with the eyeball which had a hard lens that looked like a contact lens that you removed first.....then you popped the scooped-out eyeball into your mouth and gently crushed the jelly-like orb with your tongue.  It was very mild and not at all disagreeable.  The skin was then peeled back to reveal the meat, which was connected to a bunch of feathery, fan-shaped bones that you would remove to suck the meat off of.  As I rcall, there were several layers like that, along with the larger 'cheek' medallion which was an absolute delicacy! :drool:
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Offline Trekster

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2015, 02:26:45 PM »
Around here, most people won't shoot a bear and leave it, but many farmers and landowners (esp. My grandpa) wont eat squirrels or groundhogs they shootbor trap. I've eaten squirrel and if I may be so bold, I think of it as food for lean times, with rabbit being far preferable. I know a couple of old guys who claim to have eaten groundhog and even possum, but they claim these were fatty and I get the impression that the times they ate it were during the Great Depression lol. I don't think shooting an animal and leaving it is a total waste. Buzzards, crows, ravens, foxes, coyotes and wolves certainly need to eat, lol. And I think most ranchers and farmers would prefer wolves and coyotes eating bear than their livestock.
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Offline Trekster

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2015, 02:31:30 PM »
Oh yeah, and nobody hear I've heard of eats crow. Haha. Even though there's no season or bag limits.
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Offline arngmechanic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2015, 02:48:05 PM »
There is a crow season here in Arkansas. Same one as fur bearing


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Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2015, 02:51:05 PM »
Oh yeah, and nobody hear I've heard of eats crow. Haha. Even though there's no season or bag limits.
The Brits, I understand, are quite fond of rooks which are closely related to the crow.....

http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2011/03/rook-pie-anyone.html
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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2015, 03:32:26 PM »
The one I tried had purple meat and it sucked.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2015, 07:16:44 PM »
Or "potted larks" lol :lol:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2015, 07:18:15 PM »
The one I tried had purple meat and it sucked.

I thought "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie" was a true story.
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2015, 07:23:01 PM »
   Not gonna say too much here, as I said before.


  Just be real careful on what ya eat. If you don't prepare things right... You gonna eventually get sick.


 All I am gonna say. But someone should say it.....


  There be a whole lot of crap you can get yourself into, if you eat meats that are not prepared in the correct way.
 Leptospirosis, Trichinosis, Salmonella, etc..  Look 'em up.


Many types of worms can be transmitted without proper temps in cooking.. Virii/viruses, & other pathogens also, if you don't do things right...


"Watch yur bobber!" on this...




  Be safe. Don't wanna hear about anyone getting sick....or Dead...
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Offline skandic

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2015, 07:38:52 PM »
MnSportsman, you make some excellent points and I agree 100%. Proper cooking is essential, regardless of what is being cooked. That cannot be stressed enough, thanks. :)

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2015, 12:44:43 AM »
Snakes, we skin & eat'em. use the skin for lots of things.






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Offline madmax

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2015, 02:08:36 AM »
Rattlesnake.  Snake courtesy of Spyder1958.

At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2015, 07:22:13 AM »
I remember those pictures & I've eaten rattlesnake, but not GOOD rattlesnake like those pictures appear to be.  The only time I ever had the opportunity to eat it was once at a gun show where I sampled some smoked RS jerky.  It was like chewing on a piece of very salty, but otherwise tasteless smoked rubber......not good.   The other opportunity was at a rendezvous when I was offered a sample of battered & fried RS that was a cold 'leftover' from a cooler for a late night snack.  That was probably better, but I really can't remember what it was like.....it was a long time ago, but in the condition I was in at the time, I probably wouldn't have remembered the next morning! :P
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2015, 04:07:28 PM »
I made a few things out a skin I tanned a long time ago but when it comes to eating them I get a little squeamish. 
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Offline nmt2f

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2016, 08:41:45 PM »

On the fish in my reservoir; if I catch a carp I throw it on the bank.  I eat a few bluegills and throw all the bass back in as I like to catch them more than eat them.   

What is the reason you throw the carp on the bank?  Have they overpopulated the lake?  If not, there's no reason to kill them.  It's well documented that in most cases, the traditional game fish coexist very well in waters that hold carp (common carp -- not the Asian carp that you see jumping in the U-tube videos).  Just last year, in TN, an impoundment on the Tennessee River that is known for its population of large carp just gave up a new TN state record largemouth bass.  Obviously the two species do coexist just fine in that area.

In most of the world except for the US, the common carp is the #1 sport fish. In parts of Europe, people pay thousands of $$$ to fish in certain lakes just for the chance to catch a big carp.  They fight much harder and longer than bass of similar size, and grow much larger.

Carp certainly aren't the greatest of "table fare", but they were brought here to the US in the 1800s by the government "as a food fish".  Many people do eat them, and in certain ethnic groups, they are considered quite good.

You should also be aware that in some states, the "wanton waste" of fish (such as leaving them on the bank to rot) is highly illegal and subject to stiff fines and loss of fishing/hunting privileges (maybe not where you live, but you might want to check before you do it again).

IF carp are overpopulated in your reservoir, you might ask your state DNR to help, or maybe publicize that fact so that some of your local "meat anglers" start fishing there for carp, and help thin the population.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2016, 09:12:53 PM »
Carp used to be a highly thought of fish, much more so than brown trout.  They were served in the fine restaurants of New York and other cities.  Today they are not enjoying that position. 

My reservoir is my reservoir and the fish in it belong to me.  I don't need to check with the game and fish folks on that.  As the land owner I don't need a license to fish here although visitors do.  Wanton waste is not an issue with carp, suckers, or other invasive species.   

The carp population is low and we keep them from becoming the dominant species in the reservoir.  While they may get along with larger Bass they do destroy the eggs of bass with their bottom feeding.  They can also become over populated easily.  If you know someone who would pay thousands of $$$$ to fish for them I would probably let them try my place.

Here is what our state thinks of Common Carp (and other species like the Asian)  Maybe down in Tennessee they are better neighbors.

"Significance:

Carp are destructive, non-native fish. Carp are omnivorous (eating both plants and animals), their bottom feeding habits causing great destruction of aquatic resources. They compete heavily with diving ducks, such as canvasbacks, for submerged plants. Carp of all sizes compete with native fauna for aquatic food, and destroy the nests and eat the eggs of other spawning fish. They stir up silt and degrade the water quality resulting in loss of other more desirable fish and animals.

Juvenile carp do provide forage for game fish, but quickly grow too large for this purpose. Although carp provide good action when caught on rod and reel, they are not classified as a sport fish and are difficult to catch much of the year. Their bony structure and often muddy tasting flesh reduce their desirability as a food fish."

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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2016, 10:06:32 PM »
...

Here is what our state thinks of Common Carp (and other species like the Asian)  Maybe down in Tennessee they are better neighbors.

"Significance:

Carp are destructive, non-native fish. Carp are omnivorous (eating both plants and animals), their bottom feeding habits causing great destruction of aquatic resources. They compete heavily with diving ducks, such as canvasbacks, for submerged plants. Carp of all sizes compete with native fauna for aquatic food, and destroy the nests and eat the eggs of other spawning fish. They stir up silt and degrade the water quality resulting in loss of other more desirable fish and animals.

Juvenile carp do provide forage for game fish, but quickly grow too large for this purpose. Although carp provide good action when caught on rod and reel, they are not classified as a sport fish and are difficult to catch much of the year. Their bony structure and often muddy tasting flesh reduce their desirability as a food fish."
Montana FWP thinks less of carp than even S. Dakota. I don't eat carp myself, but they do make great compost and fish emulsion for the garden, so they don't go to waste.
I do have a recipe for Planked Carp, though, if anyone's interested.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2016, 12:57:23 PM »
  I can't believe I missed this thread when it first went around,  Generally I don't agree with killing for the sake of killing,  in my opinion if you like to hunt ( I do ),  hunt game that you can use or give away to someone that will,  I understand the practical argument that no meat in the wild goes unused,  I just don't believe it's ethical or moral,  carrion eaters have managed quite well on their own for most of time,  they don't and shouldn't depend on our help.
 Pests and predators that are directly affecting ones health, property, or live stock are another story and need to be dealt with where ever and how ever possible as long as it's done safely and as humanely as possible.
 As for what's edible in the animal world,  most anything that swims, creeps, crawls, wears hair, or flys is eaten somewhere in the world,  so most species are edible,  and taste good if prepared right,  that said, the old saying "you are what you eat" should be taken as a caution,  some things because of their diet can make you sick,  either for a day or two,  or permanently (if you get my drift) .
 Having spent many weeks in hunting and fishing camps over most of my life time (we always harvested something for camp food when the opportunity presented itself) I eaten a lot of stuff that some folks would pass on,  Beaver (meat & tail),  Snake, Porcupine, wild Rabbit, Squirrel (greys), Raccoon,  Woodchuck, Wildcat,  and many species of wild game birds,  I and my hunting buddies have always had the benefit of good cooks, plus, almost anything can be made to taste good with the right amount of salt, pepper, and a lot of garlic, so all of the above was fine eating.
 On the other hand some critters I've tried once and will never eat again if I can help it,  one of which is Possum,  I know folks in the south swear how good they are,  maybe they know some secret way of fixing and cooking them that we Northerners don't.
 In my area of the North East Black Bear is a game animal,  it's hunted for it's hide and for it's meat,  it's one of those meats that benefit from low and slow cooking,  think slow cooker or better yet a pressure cooker,  also makes good wild sausage.
 Carp,  while I'm sure some folks around hear eat it,  most consider it a trash fish,  though some species are held high on the list of game fish for the sport of catching them,  Bluegills and other panfish are considered by many here to be great eating.
 Berbot is a puzzle to me,  I have lived most of my life in the same area of southern NE,  it's predominately French Canadian in ethnicity with a good helping of Italian and Irish thrown into the mix, we do have a fish that we call a "Budbut" (sic),  the more commonly know name is Bullheads or Black Catfish,  they are ugly,  damned near impossible to kill, but they are excellent eating panfried in butter,  if you get them out of clean water.   

 
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Offline Quenchcrack

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Re: Nuisance animals and ethics
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2016, 02:23:40 PM »
One of the nuisance critters we see after flooding is all the snakes that really don't take well to water.  I have a grand scheme that if we could get the nutria to eat the snakes and then get the feral hogs to eat the nutria, then have bounties on the hogs, we would have our problems solved.
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