Author Topic: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE  (Read 188 times)

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Offline wolfy

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REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« on: February 10, 2018, 08:50:02 AM »
The group that owns Remington Arms is in trouble again.   They also own Marlin Firearms; finally got those rifles' quality up to snuff & back to the point they were before the takeover.....now this!

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/02/09/remington-seeks-help-file-bankruptcy/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2018-02-10&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 08:58:55 AM »
I was reading last night that they have 950 million in debt and 550 million is due next year with another 250 million due in 2020.  They will need to refinance that and probably can't.  The article also blamed some of their problem on slow gun sales due to no strong governmental threats to violate 2nd amendment rights. 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 09:35:08 AM »
That's true......if Hillary had been elected they'd be rolling in clover now.  I think I read somewhere that when Obama was President, they sold more guns than had ever been recorded in the history of the nation! ???
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 10:24:50 AM »
  This is no surprise,  it's happened before and will happen again,  many of this country's best gun makers have suffered the same fate,  some of our most respected gun companies have been through it, most are lost, the few that survived are still hanging on.
  I'm not a business major and I may be wrong, but in my opinion the problem is that those great gun companies were established by,  and run by gun people, from the owners to the designers and foreman, to the line workers,  they were successful because they turned out a great product,  gave excellent service,  and gained the trust of their customers,  they were forced to sell out for various reasons.
  More often than not they were infiltrated by finantial malfactors who forced them out in hostile take overs or other devious means,  they were then bought out by investment groups who's only concern was profit,  they bought out the Brand and the equipment,  fired the management and most of the skilled employees,  then sold or manufactured with cheap materials and unskilled labor,  they traded on the name until even that was worthless then they dump it for what ever they can get.
  A good example is Smith & Wesson,  S&W enjoyed a great success because of their great products and customer service until the late '70's into the mid '80's,  S&W was the main supplier of handguns for law enforcement until LE adopted siemi auto pistols and got away from revolvers,  they were caught with their pants down and were facing going bankrupt,  a english holding and investment company came along a bought S&W out for a song,  they fired the executives and employees,  hired bean counters and unskilled assembly workers,  lowered quality control standards and quit servicing their customers,  then they made a deal with the feds to be the main supplier of arms to the country's police agencies, and agreed to support a law that would allow anti gun groups to sponsor lawsuits against gun companies for any crimes that involved firearms,  in other words S&W sold out the second amendment.
 The CEO and investors thought they were beyond the reach of the shooting community because of their gov. contracts,  but when shooters found out about it they boycotted the company and eventually forced it to sell out for pennies on the dollar,  but this time the buyers were the former managers and employees of the original S&W Arms Co.,  under the guidence of real gun people S&W eventually was able to restore the company to it's original quality,  told the gov. to go pound sand, S&W was now back on tract supporting the Second Amendment according to original intent,  and regained the trust and support of the shooting community.
 I don't know if Remington or the other affected companies under it's umbarrella banner can survive this assault by greedy investment scavanger corporations,  I certainly hope so,  but I don't hold out much hope,  I have vintage examples of many of the vintage American made guns, but there are few modern made that I would spend my money on today,  most have been run too far into the ground for the sake of the all mighty buck.     
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Offline Unknown

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 10:48:54 AM »
Hmmm. wait... what? A corporation in pursuit of profits lowered quality and ignored the interests of their customers? Frankly, I am shocked.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 10:49:38 AM »
That's true......if Hillary had been elected they'd be rolling in clover now.  I think I read somewhere that when Obama was President, they sold more guns than had ever been recorded in the history of the nation! ???

  Not to argue, but I disagree,  again, I could be wrong,  but I doubt very much that the rolling back of threats to the second amendment are the cause of Remington's problems,  I blame corporate mismanagement by greedy investors for profit driven motives.
  The group that took over Remington then went after Marlin,  H&R , and a few other name brand manufacturers who had built a good reputation within the shooting community and only did what they do best, rape the company's and bilk buyers with inferior products,  that's why they are going belly up.
  I challenge anyone here to name one name brand gun company under the Remington banner that hasn't closed their doors or has had their reputations ruined by those managers of that holding company, it's only common sense,  if you sell junk, don't stand behind your products,  and insult your customers,  you aren't going to survive in that business.

  While it hurts deeply to see these greats of American industry with such a rich heritage become a part of our forgotten history,  It's the way of the world we all live in today, just as ethics, values, pride in what we make and how we treat people have all gone the way of the great killroy.   
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 10:52:29 AM »
Hmmm. wait... what? A corporation in pursuit of profits lowered quality and ignored the interests of their customers? Frankly, I am shocked.

  No you aren't,  I'm not even going there.

  Have a great day. 
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 12:53:22 PM »
If they are $950 million in debt and they sell guns at an average price of $950, they would need to sell a million guns just to break even. I think the writing is on the wall.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 01:03:50 PM »
One of the things that happens when a company is acquired by a holding company is that the debt of the acquisition is given to the acquired company.  If they already had debt this just adds more debt to the finances and therein lies the problem.

Moe, make no mistake about it, if Hitlerey had been elected President gun sales would be at all time highs.  Any threat of restriction or ban always results in a huge jump in sales.  You are not wrong however that an additional piece of the problem is the quality of what gets produced by Marlin and Remington. 
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 01:13:35 PM »
I purchased a new model 742 in December of 1980. After less then 500 rounds the bolt failed. It was apparently machined from "Unobtainium" because I have never found a replacement and I've been looking sporadically for almost 20 years. I hold Remington responsible for failure to support after the sale. If they are in financial straights it is no surprise. I have consciously avoided that brand ever since. I'd like to think I'm not the only one.

Offline wolfy

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 02:00:13 PM »
I agree that many of Remington's problems were of their own making....and have been since their early days.  Some are due to unfortunate timing; the earliest being the creation of the Remington Rolling Block, singleshot rifle.  It is an ingeniously strong, simple action with only THREE moving parts, but it wasn't ready for production until the closing days of the Civil War when the country was awash in 1858 Springfield muskets.  The U.S. Army Ordinance Board rejected the Remington design, in favor of the much cheaper Allin-conversion of the existing muzzleloading muskets to the cartridge-firing, breech-loading 'trapdoor' mechanism.  All of that tooling and gearing-up for anticipated sales to our government nearly sunk the Ilion, NY firm right then and there.  Fortunately, the design was so well suited to the rigors of combat that governments around the globe began ordering rolling blocks in huge numbers and the company not only survived, but thrived!

Several years ago, due to the success of domestic companies that were producing perfect, brand new copies of the original 1874 Sharps Rifles, Remington decided to again reproduce their Remington Rolling Block which was Sharps' main rival....even back then during the days of 'The Great Buffalo Hunt.'  Everyone was excited to hear the news, but they did not put out a blueprint copy of THEIR OWN design, but wound up cutting corners and tried to market it to riflemen as an 'original' design, which it most certainly WAS NOT!  It recieved bum reviews and remained in production for only a single year.  What idiots! :P
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Offline Dano

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 03:23:17 PM »
I?m saddened to hear this news, but it does not surprise me at all. I do believe a lot of what Moe says, because I work for a large corporation that is doing exactly what he said.


However I do have to agree about the political influence and how it impacts gun prices.  I bought an AR in roughly 2008 or 2009 for almost $900- figured I better get one while they still existed.


I just bought one for my wife, granted it was a complete upper plus lower parts and a stripped lower I assembled myself, but the exact same M4 version- for $375, WITH free shipping! Politics plays a big part I believe!


GO TRUMP and PENCE!!!!!

Offline wsdstan

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 03:45:22 PM »
I was in the same boat as you Dano.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 04:13:52 PM »
Firearms sales are in a huge slump.....across the board, ALL manufacturers are experiencing huge declines in sales.  Just one more thing we can be blame on President Trump! :rofl:

http://fortune.com/2017/09/11/trump-gun-sales-decline/
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: REMINGTON'S WOES CONTINUE
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 05:23:17 PM »
Ruger stock is down 14% so far this year.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)