Author Topic: Ins and outs?  (Read 1191 times)

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Online Unknown

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Ins and outs?
« on: January 31, 2017, 05:38:16 AM »
you are not a boomer,and raising children.
How would you build your house?

I might use "the perfect wall" system. I suspect the membrane used on the exterior is probably too expensive to do in real life  life at this stage of the game for me. I.e. Children are grown.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 02:01:00 PM by Unknown »

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2017, 11:24:47 AM »
I don't understand  :shrug:

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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2017, 01:36:48 PM »
I don't understand  :shrug:

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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2017, 01:40:32 PM »
I've been in and out of this thread several times, now.  It seems to be working. :shrug:
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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 02:15:39 PM »
The Perfect Wall. I'll add the designer's name when it comes to mind. Basically it is a conventionally framed 2x that puts all the insulation on the exterior, and uses a thick membrane- like the self-ahearing stuff used on roofs, over all the sheathing. Insulation and furring on top of that. 

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 03:34:20 PM »
you are not a boomer,and raising children.
How would you build your house?


I'd use a licensed and bonded contractor.

Creek
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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2017, 03:49:11 PM »
Not a bad idea. There are still some good ones out there.

Along with that I assume the house would be standard 2x, insulation, and drywall.(?)

One thing I've not been especially keen on is slab on grade. Most houses here are built that way and have been for many years.

I like a crawl space much better, but not the crawl spaces I've been in. It should be sealed from moisture, insulated, and have enough room to actually work in.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 04:02:29 PM by Unknown »

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2017, 04:27:04 PM »
Depends on where you live.  Further north you go with 2x6 walls, triple glazed windows, and basically build a "pop bottle" that lets no air in and no air out except where you want it to enter and exit.  An example is outside air to the furnace. 

The perfect wall is a construction concept that has been around in one form or another since about 2010.  It uses the wooden or metal structure as the interior and then laminates the various layers from insulation to exterior skin.  Here is their site:  https://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall.  You will note that they also deal with the concept of the perfect slab and the perfect roof.

More important to me is to design a house that is designed for your lifestyle.  First it needs to be flexible for future changes, which at my age would be minimal but you may still be young enough to have issues arise that would need to be addressed.  Need a basement?  Need a large kitchen?  Want a small and efficient house with other outbuildings for activities?  If I were building a home today it would be smaller than what we live in at present.  We only need Two bedrooms, each with a bathroom, central living, dining, and kitchen, on an open area.  My house would have to have a library room with a view to the outside, a laundry on the main floor, and adequate storage for our lifestyle.  A full basement would also be underneath everything.  I would use a licensed contractor with post and beam experience for the project.  All other activities would be located in a large barn.   

The fellow who developed the perfect wall concept touted it as a "500 year house".  Not a driving force as far as I am concerned. 
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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 05:26:17 PM »
Thanks for the link. Do you  mean the touted longevity, the 500 year thing, is not a factor in your decision making, or the 500 year house is not a major player in the building market. I get both, just not sure what you meant.

One thing I haven't thought much about, what is the difference really, if you are in a heating dominate climate or one that requires more cooling? Seems like you'd need the same things, maybe a dark color roof v. Something close to white to reflect the sun.

I really do like the looks of  post and beam, timberframe building. As far as I know the difference in the two is p&b is primarily built using hardware and tf uses wood joinery. Most of the ones I have seen use SIPS or something similar, on the exterior to sheath/insulate walls and roof. The only problem with that is a house can be built with sips alone, making the frame redundant. A timber frame is pretty darn expensive too, especially if you have to use sips to get an engineer's stamp.

Ive seen some hybrids too, using mostly conventional framing, with a little bit of timber to show off. They  look good and solve some of the wiring, and other mechanical problems that come with full on timber, P&B.

Including the raising of children into the scenario is to get the thinking to move toward adaptability, easier modification, low maintenance, higher efficiency, and maybe even less expensive. Less expensive is probably too much to ask.
And it doesn't matter if anyone wants to talk about housing from a child- less pov either.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2017, 06:39:04 PM »
The 500 year factor is not important to my decision making and it is not a player in the housing market, at least on the tract housing market which produces homes people can afford. In fact I know of only a few people who would care and they all live in castles in Europe. 

As you note Timber Frame houses use no fasteners while Post and Frame does.  The fasteners can be iron forgings and add quite a look to the construction.  If a good builder is involved they can be hidden to the point that it is difficult to tell which is which.  Post and Beam is quicker and somewhat less costly to build of course.  Some people will use both in the same structure, particularly where the Timber Frame elements are used to show off the pegs and joinery.   

The area you live in dictates the insulation and windows you use.  In the far north with many days of below zero temperatures one would probably want triple glazed windows and walls and roofs insulated to far different standards than down south.  Until one gets into areas that have no real low temperatures the structure is sort of the same.  Get far enough south then things change a lot.  You would, of course, not need the same R value in walls or ceilings in the Florida Keys that you would want in Duluth Mn.  You also wouldn't even want the same type of construction.

There is also a departure in areas of the country to different materials and technology.  I lived in New Mexico in the 1960's in a delightful adobe house that was built, in part, about 1845.  It was a wonderful structure with 12" thick walls and a corner fireplace.  The windows all had wooden shutters to shut it up when cold weather came.  It was cool in the hot days and in the cooler days of September and October you fired up the fireplace and it stayed comfortable all night.  If I lived in that part of the southwest I would live in an adobe house.  Up north you could use hay bale construction with post and beam and stucco or synthetic "stucco" and have quite a nice home.  Higher maintenance than some exteriors though. 

When I was working in the construction industry in the mid 1990's, just before my desire to retire outweighed my desire to work,  I was consulting on a job where one of the contractors was also building hay bale houses at another project in the mountains west of Denver.  He was really enthusiastic about the materials and possibilities they had. There was resistance from some building departments to hay bales.  He made some progress with them over the time I worked on that project.  I don't know much about their use today but I think they are allowed in a lot more areas. 

SIPS (structural insulated panels for those who are not familiar with abbreviations) are more expensive to build with than conventional framing in most parts of the country.  Especially where labor costs are high.  I have never worked with that product so I have no thoughts on it.  I would think it is a product that would really be efficient in manufactured housing.   

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Offline Orbean

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 08:01:40 PM »
The adobe house my dad was born in is over a hundred years old, built by my grandfather, still stands. Cool in the summer but don't let completely cool down in the winter because it takes forever to heat back up. The walls take hours to absorb heat, bringing the room temp up to what is considered comfortable. I know this from personal experience. Once heated it retains the heat well and does not require much more heating to keep it comfortable.

I am in the process of planning my own vacation place and it will not be adobe for the reason I stated earlier. For a dwelling I plan on only using occasionally it will be traditionally framed house. 2x6 framing, cement slab. No plumbing under the slab, waste or water lines, the floorplan has all plumbing along the perimeter. The reason is for ease of repairs, not that I plan on any in my lifetime. Separate gray water and black water systems. There is no natural gas service available so propane heat with a wood burning back up. It is only  a little over 600 ft squared so the electrical required will be minimal, I do however need enough power for my amateur radio hobby.

Frankly I am a hell of a plumber, but a terrible carpenter, so am recruiting help from friends who are great carpenters. I want to keep it small for several reasons, it is a weekend home, heating costs as it sits on the continental divide, and I want to use my money on higher end materials and not on square footage.
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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 08:04:21 PM »
Where I'm at in Oklahoma, we have a mixed environment. Not nearly as cold as SD in winter, maybe not as hot as the southwest can be. Overall, A/C might be the bigger concern, but still need the heater to work. I was fantasizing about getting a wood cook stove but in reality it would be decorative for most of the year

There are a few things I can think of that should be different in heating v cooling predominate areas. Orientation to the sun, shading  windows to help prevent heat gains of sun blazing through, high R value roof insulation, reflective roof color. I guess it is true though, there is a much bigger difference in the temp inside and outside when it is below zero degrees for long periods of time, compared to 100 outside trying to keep 70 inside.

A friend of a friend is in the process of building a strawbale house. He is outside of any jurisdiction requiring inspection. Which is no reason to do shoddy engineering, but you can do what you want pretty much, except for sewage. I don't know much about them really, but if built right and maintained they can last for a very long time.

500 years is a pretty long time to me. Who can guess what things will be like for us humans that far off? Nevertheless it seems worthwhile to build things that can last for a long time and not need a bunch of maintenance to keep it standing, or a ton of energy to keep it comfortable.

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 08:11:14 PM »
That sounds interesting Orbean. I'd like to hear a little more, like how you will get flow from the toilet, wil pipe be exposed or concealed in some way.

Offline Orbean

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Re: Ins and outs?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 03:53:43 AM »
That sounds interesting Orbean. I'd like to hear a little more, like how you will get flow from the toilet, wil pipe be exposed or concealed in some way.

Black water will on a septic, both gray and black water has to have separate vents, drains don't work properly without vents. My parents bought a house where the master bath toilet was not vented and fixing it was a huge pain to correct. You have to expose the drain lines and rip open the walls.
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