Author Topic: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR  (Read 995 times)

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Offline wolfy

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KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« on: September 17, 2017, 06:03:21 PM »
The 10 part PBS series starts tonight.....first episode in the series starts now and will be rebroadcast immediately afterward.  Check your local listings. :coffee:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 07:34:50 PM by wolfy »
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 07:49:14 PM »
Thanks for the reminder.  Lost a best friend to that war in 1968.  Still miss him.
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Offline SIXFOOTER

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 07:32:07 AM »
Got to see a bit of that last night, interesting.
It brought up a lot of things that were related that I didn't realize were so that dragged us into Veit Nam
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 11:23:11 AM »
Me neither. :shrug:    I knew of MOST of the pieces, but wasn't completely clear on how they intertwined to involve us in the final mess that became our Vietnam war.  Damned Frogs! >:(
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 06:04:15 PM »
Second installment, Riding the Tiger, starting now.  Shown a second time in 90 minutes. :coffee:
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 05:12:12 PM »
Tonight's episode: The River Styx


Fearing Saigon's collapse, President Lyndon B. Johnson authorizes the bombing of North Vietnam, and sends U.S. ground troops to the south.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 05:20:16 PM »
Tonight's episode: Resolve

North Vietnamese troops make their way down the Ho Chi Minh Trail, defying American air power; while the anti-war movement escalates, American soldiers realize this war is like no other.


Am I the only one watching this? :shrug:   From what I've seen so far, it's been well done. :thumbsup:
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Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 05:28:43 PM »
I have tried to watch some of the first two. 

Burns is an excellent documentary filmmaker but, in my case, I lost my best friend all through high school and the first couple of years of college to that ing war and it causes me some disgust to watch this.  The politics of the time were painful, the treatment of the veterans who returned was pathetic, and the politicians pulling the puppet strings were deceitful lying pieces of excrement.  I am not enthusiastic about watching it for those reasons.  I may but it will ruin my day each time.   :'(
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 05:34:56 PM »
I understand......and that's EXACTLY what last night's episode dealt with, too.  :-\
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Offline Unknown

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 10:31:23 AM »
I tried to watch The West and CivilWar but kept falling asleep. Even though Burns claims neutrality, unbiased in selection of material to present in his films- I have doubts about that.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 10:52:57 AM »
I tried to watch The West and CivilWar but kept falling asleep. Even though Burns claims neutrality, unbiased in selection of material to present in his films- I have doubts about that.

I am always sort of on the lookout for bias.  In the Civil War I don't recall anything really overt in the presentation, neither in the West.  I have not watched any of the others so have no opinion  on them.  So far, in the little bit I have seen on Vietnam it appears to be fairly well balanced.  In last nights program he showed a lot of the resistance to the war and one of those groups for it.  The closing remark might have been a bit biased.  It was an opinion by a Vietnam protester who said to never ask a person who lost a loved on in the war if they were against it because they will say they supported it.  It gives the person a justification for the sacrifice their loved made to preserve the American way and lets them feel that the persons death was not in vain. 

I think he is biased in some of his work but have not seen it.  He is a left leaning individual and Congress probably shows that.  I have not watched it but have read reviews of it and there are some things presented that could be termed a leftist bias.  All in all he may be a liberal gas bag.  Still makes pretty good films.   
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 11:54:21 AM »
Being aware of Burns' political leanings is always something I deal with when watching any of his presentations, but he does a magnificent job of showing all the many facets of any subject he decides to serialize.  He must have a research team that rivals Michener's.  From the Civil War to Baseball and everything in between.....it always seems like I come away knowing more about a subject than when I went in.  VIETNAM is no exception. 

Last night's episode dealt with the lies, misconceptions, secrecy and misunderstandings that McNamara & Westmoreland were responsible for.  President Johnson's frustration with the political ramifications of the war at home and the general feelings of the public and their awareness of it and the eventual spillover of anger into the streets over the seemingly endless involvement and death toll on both sides was pretty well presented......as I remember it, anyway. :popcorn:
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Offline Unknown

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 01:41:26 PM »
Thanks Stan and wolfy.

I think that is the challenge- to discern the underlying message. It may be subtle. It takes a lot of time and money to produce films of this scale in influence and detail- the take-away will not be left to chance.
 

It would be interesting to have a group watch one of the films and then take a test on the subject to see how much was learned, how much detail was retained

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 05:24:51 PM »
Tonight's episode: This Is What We Do

As casualties mount on both sides, American soldiers face deadly ambushes and artillery; President Johnson assures the public that victory is within reach.
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 10:08:41 PM »
I watched it tonight.  They are in the time period when my friend was killed when they get to May of 1968.  He was up north, 3rd Marine Division. 
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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2017, 05:39:10 PM »
Tonight's episode: THINGS FALL APART

Shaken by the violence of the Tet Offensive, assassinations and unrest, Americans begin to doubt President Lyndon B. Johnson's promise that victory is near; Johnson decides not to seek re-election.
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
not everyone that served in NAM left unscathed and of sound mind.
mabey they should do documentray on the homeless and mentally lost.
lord knows i've met my share across the country.
for hollywood to profit off the pain and misery these men and yes women.
mabey some should go to the survivors of the war. just saying

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 01:40:05 PM »
The series ain't over yet, HS.....that aspect may be coming to light in a future episode. :shrug:
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 03:13:07 PM »
Tonight's episode: THE VENEER OF CIVILIZATION

Draft-age Americans wrestle with their choices; Richard Nixon narrowly wins the presidential election; soldiers on all sides of the conflict witness savagery and courage.
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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2017, 12:39:06 PM »
Tonight's episode: THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD

President Richard Nixon begins withdrawing American troops from Vietnam; the invasion of Cambodia sparks large protests.
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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2017, 04:52:25 PM »
Tonight's episode: A DISREPECTFUL LOYALTY

The South Vietnamese fight on their own, succumbing to terrible losses in Laos; after he is re-elected, President Richard Nixon strikes a peace deal with Hanoi that sees the release of American prisoners of war.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:49:44 PM by wolfy »
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 10:00:27 AM »
We were out and about last night and missed that one.  Hope to see it tonight and since we have sworn off the NFL games should be no problem.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 11:26:54 AM »
Thank you Stan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 05:25:17 PM »
Tonight's episode: THE WEIGHT OF MEMORY (finale)


Civil war continues in Vietnam as President Richard Nixon resigns; North Vietnamese troops regain control of Saigon; Americans and Vietnamese try to heal.
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2017, 08:00:57 PM »
I watched this one.  Interesting to review this on the screen after the passage of nearly 50 years.   Some of the speakers are very interesting people.  I particularly liked the comments by the former soldiers, both ours and the North Vietnamese.  While my nearly life long frustration with the loss of my best friend is no less painful to think about it was good to see the comments.   
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Offline Katonijon

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2017, 02:48:30 PM »
Saw bits and pieces of this and it looks really intriguing so far. I'm prob going to keep up when I get the time.

Offline BobbyTilt

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »
Got to see a bit of that, very interesting and as You said - really intriguing.

Offline wolfy

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Offline wsdstan

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2017, 08:59:15 AM »
I watched most of the series but was unaware of your link wolfy.  Thanks for posting that as I doubt it will get any attention or ink from the press.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2017, 09:05:48 AM »
.......or here either, for that matter.  :-\  :shrug:
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Offline OffGrid9

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2017, 04:25:01 PM »
THIS JUST IN.....

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2017/11/08/vietnam-vets-group-demands-pbs-documentary-correct-inaccuracies-n2406540?amp=true

Thanks for the link, wolfy.  I'm glad to see vets demanding corrections...but I doubt they'll get them.  That's OK, even if it's just another Quixotic act, tilting at windmills, it's good to know someone still has the fire to fight back.

I was on the USS Oklahoma City, flagship of the 7th Fleet, from Feb '69 to Feb '73.  We provided naval gunfire support to US and ARVN troops for 48 of that 49-month stretch.  Not near as dangerous as the plight of the in-country ground-pounders, jar-heads and infantry, but there were a few exciting moments. 

Came home in Feb '73, wore my dress uniform into downtown Seattle just once (had to...only way to get the military discount on the airfare to bring my wife and son home...long story).  A pretty young girl walked up and spat on me, while her male companion said pleasant things about ethics, integrity, bestiality, baby-killer status of all armed forces, etc.  I was so shocked I did nothing.  I was shaken, and shaking, and ice-cold mad.  If there had been no witnesses, I might well have plowed them both into the sidewalk.  I think they could see that they might have made a mistake, and they hurried away.

I went back to base (the now-extinct Sand Point Navy Station in Seattle) and stayed there until my discharge three days later.  I never wore the uniform again.

I was not and am not ashamed of my service during the Vietnam war.  I and the people I served with did nothing wrong, and much to be proud of.  But I can't watch movies about it, or a Ken Burns special on it.  I don't want to go there again, it took me too long to come home.
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2017, 04:56:12 PM »
sad thing is so many came home in body only.
somehow thier experiances were too much.
and thier souls somehow were left behind.

Offline wolfy

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2017, 07:29:10 PM »
Thank you OG9, and all the rest of you vets, for your service and sacrifices! :hail:
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2017, 08:20:37 AM »
Evidently Ken Burns had help writing the series from Walter Cronkite and Jane Fonda.  He can't write an unbiased piece,  it's always slanted heavily from the left side of things,

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2017, 09:15:56 PM »
I will have to try to catch the series eventually.  I really liked his Civil War series and find him to be a talented filmmaker.

Offline JohnE

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2017, 09:02:42 AM »
Evidently Ken Burns had help writing the series from Walter Cronkite and Jane Fonda.  He can't write an unbiased piece,  it's always slanted heavily from the left side of things,

Talks cheap.

Give some examples and refute the factual content.

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2017, 10:28:41 AM »
laughing.  If I have to draw you a picture, I doubt you would understand it.  Carry on in your own world.    :)

Offline Orbean

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2017, 02:28:58 PM »
I like ken burns projects, look forward to them. Having said that he is very liberal and the war being as emotionally charged as it still is, I can see his view as biased liberal view.


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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2017, 02:33:37 PM »
Evidently Ken Burns had help writing the series from Walter Cronkite and Jane Fonda.  He can't write an unbiased piece,  it's always slanted heavily from the left side of things,

Talks cheap.

Give some examples and refute the factual content.

makes sense to me. asking for examples should not cause an issue. After asking about any bias in Burns' material the respondents here replied they saw little to none. I have not watched the documentary; which I might or might not as time permits. I could probably learn all I need to know about Kenneth by seeing how he covered My Li. In my opinion Burns likes to confound and conflate until there is no right or wrong, good or bad.

Offline JohnE

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2017, 10:38:16 PM »
laughing.  If I have to draw you a picture, I doubt you would understand it.  Carry on in your own world.    :)

LOL...that's what I thought.


Offline buzzacott

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Re: KEN BURNS: THE VIETNAM WAR
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2017, 06:32:48 AM »
I have tried to watch some of the first two. 

Burns is an excellent documentary filmmaker but, in my case, I lost my best friend all through high school and the first couple of years of college to that ing war and it causes me some disgust to watch this.  The politics of the time were painful, the treatment of the veterans who returned was pathetic, and the politicians pulling the puppet strings were deceitful lying pieces of excrement.  I am not enthusiastic about watching it for those reasons.  I may but it will ruin my day each time.   :'(

Me neither.

It's on Netflix, but I haven't watched it as yet. My dad is a Vietnam Vet (Australian army Infantry rifleman 1969-70) and I've lived with the fallout from that unnecessary conflict my whole life.

One day I'll sit down and watch it. The West and the Civil War were excellent. I am ideologically opposed to many of Ken Burns' personal views, but you can't really fault him as a doco maker. He shows factual history without (too much) propaganda creeping in. Balanced and mostly unbiased. There should be more of it.
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