Author Topic: THE VIKINGS  (Read 35062 times)

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Offline werewolf won

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2013, 08:08:12 AM »
When the 'raven segment' came up, right at the end of the second episode, I remembered that you had mentioned they had used them as a navigation 'tool'.:hail:   You don't happen to recall where you came by that piece of information, do you?    That was the first time I'd heard of it. :shrug:

I do not specifically recall, odds are pretty good however that  some long forgotten military lecture on navigation might have mentioned it.  Why it stuck in my head is beyond me. 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2014, 04:42:10 PM »
The VIKINGS start the second season tonight on The History Channel with the continuing saga of Ragnar Lothbrok and his horde of explorers and axe-wielding raiders.   The newspaper today, gave it a pretty good review as a series based on what is known about one ruling family's 3-400 year reign as clan leaders.

It starts here at 9PM, but will be shown again several more times in coming days.

                                            Ragnar> >:D
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Online Moe M.

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2014, 05:22:04 PM »
The VIKINGS start the second season tonight on The History Channel with the continuing saga of Ragnar Lothbrok and his horde of explorers and axe-wielding raiders.   The newspaper today, gave it a pretty good review as a series based on what is known about one ruling family's 3-400 year reign as clan leaders.

It starts here at 9PM, but will be shown again several more times in coming days.

                                            Ragnar> >:D

  I can't bring myself to watch it,  it's much too violent in my opinion,  I know it's history,  I understand that to be accurate the writers have to present them as they really were,  but,  I don't watch shows that feature serial killers, rapist, arsonist, and torturers either,  oh wait,  that what the Vikings were.   :doh:
  I certainly can't support those actions today,  so I'm not going to support those who profit from portraying them.

  Sorry Wolfy,  but we can't always agree.    :cheers:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2014, 06:18:13 PM »
Thanks Wolfy.  It starts out here at 8:00 pm.
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Offline Malcolm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2014, 09:59:06 PM »


  I can't bring myself to watch it,  it's much too violent in my opinion,  I know it's history,  I understand that to be accurate the writers have to present them as they really were,  but,  I don't watch shows that feature serial killers, rapist, arsonist, and torturers either,  oh wait,  that what the Vikings were.   :doh:
  I certainly can't support those actions today,  so I'm not going to support those who profit from portraying them.

  Sorry Wolfy,  but we can't always agree.    :cheers:
[/quote]

Similar experience might well breed the same outlook.  I got my quota of violence in my career and subsequently refuse to watch a number of movies and follow some news stories.  On a few occasions, I met the predator nose to nose and - somehow - made them blink first, but I now want that life behind me.  I have been researching the Norse culture for years and find that they were probably no worse than a number of cultures and were probably better than some others in their social institutions.  One indication that I have always found amusing is that Norse men were generally well-behaved around the household.  Finally, a question:  Does anyone know the origin of the expression, "Ten thousand Swedes went running through the weeds, pursued by one Norwegian?"  The town where I attended college had a Norwegian athletic coach who delighted in pulling that expression on the local Swedes.   

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2014, 05:57:48 AM »
I have lost all faith in History Channel.  Any credibility they had evaporated long ago.  I just don' think they are capable of producing anything historically accurate.

Offline rtaylor129

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2014, 06:33:40 AM »
This is my absolute favorite program! What a start to the season! Reminds me of the Starz movie channels Spartacus series!


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Online Moe M.

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2014, 06:46:02 AM »
I have lost all faith in History Channel.  Any credibility they had evaporated long ago.  I just don' think they are capable of producing anything historically accurate.

  It's been said that movies mimic life,  when we go back to the '40's and look at social entertainment media we can see a progression from then to now of what used to be implied,  such as sex and violence and from  the use language (getting ones message across without using the profane,  Hitchcock was a master of imagination building, he could build a production that would let us see all of the offensive details in our minds eye without projecting it on the screen.
  Slowly as we progressed in time the imagination was replaced with the raw violence and shocking rudeness of real life horrors and pain,  no longer do we have to paint a picture in our mind of what is happening when the lights go out,  we are treated to it in all it's nakedness,  and in it's lowest forms of language and behavior.
  All we need do is look at how our youth acts and interacts with each other and with society today,  they have been desensitized by the forces around them and in the schools,  the electronic games they play,  and by being spoiled by us, their parents.
  Is it any wonder that as they grow up and become the new writers, directors, and producers of the crap that is handed off to us as entertainment that many of us who grew up with real entertainment in a more civil time are greatly disappointed ?

  As for the "History" in the History Channel,  the above applies just as well,  they stopped teaching history, especially American history decades ago in the lower grades and in college,  today the kids learn revisionist history, hell most young people don't know what time was like before personal computers or cell phones.
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Offline rtaylor129

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2014, 07:01:22 AM »
I quit follow the "current" history books. For example: my 5th grader had to do a paper on the American Revolution. They had to pick a major "player" (exact words) and tell why he or she was important. My son picked Benedict Arnold. He used a book that was published in 1947 from our local library as his source. He received an F because the teacher taught them that Arnold did NOT betray the colonists that it was Washington who betrayed us. Needless to say a parent teacher conforence ensured with me producing 7 texts stating the fact that this leftist liberal teacher was unfit to teach! And because of my demanding this person has lost their teaching liscense here in PA. The reason I bring this up is that the liberal left is trying to rewrite history. That is why the History channel had to change format to the reality based format they are now. TV is all about rating all about the all mighty dollar. Tis the times we live in now. The dollar is worshipped more now than The Lord our God is. And that is a crying shame. In my home we say a prayer every meal, every morning, and at every bedtime. Am I "old fashioned" you are darn right and proud of it. But, I still like the entertainment value I find in shows like the Vikings.


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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2014, 09:54:25 AM »
Awesome show. I love it. Game of Thrones also starts in April. :)

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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2014, 10:18:12 AM »
I find it interesting, the differing opinions on this series. 8).   I find it an interesting look back on a time that is impossible to document accurately, but ties together the 'snippets' of actual history that we DO know.   More a 'speculative mortar' that binds together those few pieces of factual historical incidents taken from a time of little recorded history.  CERTAINLY, it is not a factual story, but it is quite well done for one attempting to deliver a chain of historical events that we know the VIKINGS actually did play a part in.  Michael Hirst, the developer of the story line has done some widely acclaimed similar treatments of history in 'docudrama', &  ain't no dummy when it comes to delivering a bit of history that few would know 'jack' about otherwise. :thumbsup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_(TV_series)

What other choices do we have to watch.....Here Comes Honey BooBoo? :rolleyes: :shrug:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2014, 10:50:38 AM »
I am with you Wolfy.  Last nights episode was pretty violent but I actually know that its just a movie and doesn't make me "bloodthirsty".  A lot of the incidents are taken from the sagas and while they are not gospel fact they do give an indication of the times.  I have read a fair bit about the raiding in England, Scotland, and the islands of the British coast and there was a lot of killing and pillaging going on. 

As an aside I turned to Pawn Stars a bit before the Vikings started and one of the segments was a guy bringing in some Viking age jewelry and the expert valued it.  Then he brought in a couple of Viking swords.  Interesting items. 
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Online Moe M.

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2014, 01:02:50 PM »
I find it interesting, the differing opinions on this series. 8).   I find it an interesting look back on a time that is impossible to document accurately, but ties together the 'snippets' of actual history that we DO know.   More a 'speculative mortar' that binds together those few pieces of factual historical incidents taken from a time of little recorded history.  CERTAINLY, it is not a factual story, but it is quite well done for one attempting to deliver a chain of historical events that we know the VIKINGS actually did play a part in.  Michael Hirst, the developer of the story line has done some widely acclaimed similar treatments of history in 'docudrama', &  ain't no dummy when it comes to delivering a bit of history that few would know 'jack' about otherwise. :thumbsup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_(TV_series)

What other choices do we have to watch.....Here Comes Honey BooBoo? :rolleyes: :shrug:

  I can understand the need for artistic license when it comes to historical novels,  even when it's presented on the screen,  it's impossible to fill in the blank spots between historical events unless it was recorded verbatim in some way,  and that rarely happens even in currant events.
 The show lost me in one of the first episodes when the brothers were discussing a future raid,  when one brother left his house the visiting brother promptly raped his brother wife and then told her to quit whining.
 I really didn't see where that needed to be included in the story line,  in my opinion it was added for pure exploitism and it did nothing but glorify the barberism of the charactor.
 Call me a softy, but like Malcolm said,  those of us that have seen the damage done to innocent people and especially children because of that sort of barbaric mentality don't need to be reminded so starkly that it existed then and in part still exists today. 

 I don't mean it to be a reflection on those who watch and enjoy it,  I just personally think that the producers could keep the story line valid and fairly accurate while not having to glorify the carnage as they do,  in my opinion it's just another sign that we as a civilization are on a downward trend.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2014, 03:02:05 PM »
I am with you Wolfy.  Last nights episode was pretty violent but I actually know that its just a movie and doesn't make me "bloodthirsty".  A lot of the incidents are taken from the sagas and while they are not gospel fact they do give an indication of the times.  I have read a fair bit about the raiding in England, Scotland, and the islands of the British coast and there was a lot of killing and pillaging going on. 

As an aside I turned to Pawn Stars a bit before the Vikings started and one of the segments was a guy bringing in some Viking age jewelry and the expert valued it.  Then he brought in a couple of Viking swords.  Interesting items. 
I got in on part of Pawn Stars, too.....didn't get to see the Viking jewelry, but I DID see the sword.   $23,000, I think was what the guy was trying to pawn it for. :shrug:   No doubt, it would be worth that much to someone, but there are limits to how much even Rick is willing to pay for an historic item like that.........especi ally as long as the 'Old Man' is still watching from the back room! :doh:   I do like that program because Rick does seem pretty knowledgable on the worth & authenticity of historic items and history in general. :thumbsup:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2014, 03:18:08 PM »
I am with you Wolfy.  Last nights episode was pretty violent but I actually know that its just a movie and doesn't make me "bloodthirsty".  A lot of the incidents are taken from the sagas and while they are not gospel fact they do give an indication of the times.  I have read a fair bit about the raiding in England, Scotland, and the islands of the British coast and there was a lot of killing and pillaging going on. 

As an aside I turned to Pawn Stars a bit before the Vikings started and one of the segments was a guy bringing in some Viking age jewelry and the expert valued it.  Then he brought in a couple of Viking swords.  Interesting items. 
I got in on part of Pawn Stars, too.....didn't get to see the Viking jewelry, but I DID see the sword.   $23,000, I think was what the guy was trying to pawn it for. :shrug:   No doubt, it would be worth that much to someone, but there are limits to how much even Rick is willing to pay for an historic item like that.........especi ally as long as the 'Old Man' is still watching from the back room! :doh:   I do like that program because Rick does seem pretty knowledgable on the worth & authenticity of historic items and history in general. :thumbsup:

The guy with the swords just brought them in for Rick to see, they were not for pawn.  The guy is a friend of Rick's and is the one who valued the jewelry.  He quoted $35,000 for one of the swords.  Rick asked if he could get one for about half that and they guy said they were so rare and so infrequently on the market that it wouldn't happen.  :shrug:

That Jimmy Hendrix guitar was verified authentic and worth between $750,000 and a mil.  Rick offered the owner $600,000 but he passed. 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2014, 03:32:50 PM »
Like I said, I only got to see just a minute or so of the program, so I had no idea of who the guy was with the sword.....didn't see the Hendrix guitar at all.  I'd like to have the sword, but I'm afraid the guitar would be wasted on me! :-\
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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »
Wow, Moe - after the laissez faire attitude you showed when I posted the topic on the brutal murders of two well-known and respected members of the community I live in, I'm a little surprised by the "Mr. Sensitive" bit.  I came away from that thread thinking you must be pretty 'hard boiled':

http://bladesandbushcraft.com/index.php/topic,3851.msg66678.html#msg66678

Interesting.

Whereas I tend to agree with Mannlicher that the History Channel doesn't have much credibility, I think this show is the exception that proves the rule.  What I've seen so far is pretty faithful to the spirit of the sagas.  I thought the violence has been downplayed from what is seen in the sagas, Heimskringla, etc. - i.e. enemies with the 'blood eagle' cut on their back or bellies cut from sternum to crotch and then marched around a tree to pull their entrails out, or other gruesomeness.  Of course, the series isn't over yet...............

I'll be watching.  Beats the heck out of watching Toe Jedi acting like a doofus or reruns of Bear Grylls drinking his own wee.

Offline Trekster

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2014, 10:38:19 PM »
I enjoyed what episodes I watched, and it is true that some things in this show are historically or archaeologically accurate, however, there are a lot of inaccuracies as well. I don't really like how the producers made all the men look scraggly and filthy. The truth is, most other peoples of the time period remarked upon how "fastidious and cleanly to the point of anality" the Norse were. They carved antler combs and used them several times a day. They washed their hair and faces multiple times a week and bathed fairly regularly. Perhaps not on voyages or during wartime but I'm betting that once they were covered in mud, blood and guts, most of them immediately went to a water source and bathed. LOL.

The violence and brutality is certainly indicative of the times. They were, like many other cultures and cultures today, brutal during wartime yet kind to their children and wives and fairly homely when they sailed into their home ports.
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Offline Trekster

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2014, 10:40:55 PM »
With the exception of thralls (slaves), women were treated well in their culture, especially wives. My guess is that the rapacity that the main character's brother showed was meant to be a point of departure from the norm, showing his perversion and beastliness compared to his brother, creating drama, which these shows all thrive on lol.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2014, 03:59:44 PM »
Just a reminder to those that are still following the continuing saga of Ragnar and his clan.  It's on again this evening. :banana:

VIKINGS doing Viking stuff>>>>> :chopwood: :deadhorse: :fire1: :duel: :cheers: :stir:
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Offline Wilderbeast

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2014, 04:17:42 PM »
Just a reminder to those that are still following the continuing saga of Ragnar and his clan.  It's on again this evening. :banana:

VIKINGS doing Viking stuff>>>>> :chopwood: :deadhorse: :fire1: :duel: :cheers: :stir:

I'll be watching it Wolfy  :thumbsup:



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Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2014, 04:25:47 PM »
Just a reminder to those that are still following the continuing saga of Ragnar and his clan.  It's on again this evening. :banana:

VIKINGS doing Viking stuff>>>>> :chopwood: :deadhorse: :fire1: :duel: :cheers: :stir:
Thanks for the reminder, I missed last week.
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2014, 06:53:35 PM »
I guess I miss it because I'm watching life below zero, need to record one. Thanks for the reminder craig
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2014, 08:28:26 PM »
Ragnar's on tonight. :chopwood:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2014, 08:38:14 PM »
I am watching it as I type this.   :popcorn: :duel:
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2014, 03:20:18 PM »
Ragnar's last hurrah for this season is on tonight. :chopwood: :duel: :cheers: :canoe:
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Offline rolandsilvajr

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2014, 08:46:53 AM »
Was sort of concerned it might end on a cliff hanger and have to wait until next season but it went out with a bang. Really good scripting and story lines tying everything together.


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Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2014, 07:37:48 PM »
Missed it. I will have to watch for a rerun.
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2014, 07:47:59 PM »
Missed it. I will have to watch for a rerun.

It should be archived on the website soon.
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Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #79 on: May 05, 2014, 03:50:17 PM »
Just because something is on the History channel does not make it history.  Like any other form of entertainment, they are looking for ratings.   The Vikings were pretty intimidating to the people of most of Europe.  However that changed when they came to the new world, the native people in North America convinced the Vikings to go back home.

Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #80 on: May 05, 2014, 04:32:41 PM »
I don't care if it is historically  accurate as long as it is interesting.
 I would like to hear more about their time in North America.
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Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #81 on: May 05, 2014, 05:39:45 PM »
The Vikings were pretty interesting, but at the time they existed, their culture was relatively primitive compared to the culture of many of the native American peoples.  I had an acquaintance, a Tlingit gentleman, who referred to the Russian settlement in Alaska as the "barbarian" invasion.

There are all of these programs on the History channel, but I have yet to see something that tells us about the very sophisticated culture that existed here when the Europeans arrived.   The native Americans, had vast trading networks that spanned the continent,  they left great earth work monuments, the mounds in Ohio.  The Eastern peoples lived in framed houses, in walled towns.

They had art, culture, music, theater, all of this has been denied to us to justify our treatment of the "ignorant savages".. 

The Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian and a number of the other coastal peoples were seafarers, that built canoes that were in most cases as sea worthy as the "Dragon Ships",   

Vikings, as tough guys, would never have, gotten off the beach if they ran into the Tlingit's.   

This is suppressed history, but it is our history, not something from Europe.


     

Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #82 on: May 05, 2014, 05:57:13 PM »
I still say it's a good series. :duel:    Some of it is based on actual occurrences, but like all these things there is a lot of personal drama thrown in.  I just consider the drama as a mortar or grout that holds it all together.  I never thought I was missing anything available on the rest of the channels that was worth squat anyway. :shrug:
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Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #83 on: May 05, 2014, 08:00:19 PM »
John, that's the history I would like to hear more about. Any good books out their?
Thanks.
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Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #84 on: May 06, 2014, 08:16:23 AM »
lgm

I am sure there are books, but most of what I know has been through first hand experience, and bits and pieces from other sources.  The walled towns and frame houses of the Eastern peoples came from old block prints made by the early settlers and reproduced in one of the Editions of my Traditional Bowyer"s Bible.  I have been all over the mounds in Ohio and read everything I could find about them, I have been to the stone dwellings in the SW, truly amazing architecture.  I knew many of the native people in Alaska, our police academy was at Sitka, and there totem poles, long houses and a lot of information about the culture and traditions of those people.

The Tlingit people were predominately found in the SE part of Alaska, but they ranged all of the way up north of the Yukon river, they had copper mines, in what was to become the Kenneccot Mine in Mc Carthey, Alaska.

Lots of American history.

I have some grief with the History channel, some of the material they present is an absolute misrepresentation of facts.

History is a pretty fluid topic, usually written by people who want to appear in a "light most favourable"..  I am getting a long way off topic, but one prime example is the battle of Kadesh, it was fought to a stalemate, Ramesses II, marched back to Egypt, erected monuments to commemorate his great victory over the Hittites .. did not happen. 

In fact there was a peace treaty drawn up between the Egyptians and the Hittites and a copy of that treaty hangs in the UN building.

Wolfy .. sorry to have hijacked the thread...J

Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #85 on: May 06, 2014, 11:04:05 AM »
No worries, John......hijacked threads don't bother me as much as they do some people. ;)

I don't anticipate any activity in this thread until next season anyway. :chopwood:
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Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2014, 07:20:17 PM »
The older I get the more interesting history is. Only thing is it always seems to be  writing by the " winners" so it can be hard to find the truth.
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Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #87 on: May 07, 2014, 12:56:15 PM »
lgm

You are absolutely correct.  History is like looking for evidence in a homicide case, you have to carefully evaluate the evidence.  One of the most maligned people in history was Pontius Pilate, when he questioned Christ, he asked him why he was here and Christ replied to bring the truth, and Pilate asked what is truth.?  (not direct quotes, but I am not sure that any direct quotes exist)

I am afraid that truth is one of those things that is like beauty, it lies in the eye of the beholder.

I do not mean to malign the History channel, but when you watch their presentations, just remember they are the same folks that brought us the series Ancient Aliens, a real compilation of misrepresentation and pseudo science. 

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #88 on: May 07, 2014, 03:00:05 PM »
John, that's the history I would like to hear more about. Any good books out their?
Thanks.

I'm also interested in the subject, and have been trying for a long time to find any good information on it. Sadly, there isn't much written on it because there is very little actual evidence on which we can go on. It is mostly speculation and story telling. We know of the settlement, and a few coins on the continent itself, but the rest is on the same level of historicity as Ancient Aliens. 

Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #89 on: May 07, 2014, 03:40:15 PM »
 Wood Trekker

That is not quite accurate.  There is definitive evidence that the ancient peoples in Ohio, had trade with the the people living in the west. When they excavated those mounds they found abalone shell jewellery, abalone are only found in the Pacific. There was also metal items made of smelted copper.

There are burial sites on the Snake river, form the remains and interred artefacts is it pretty evident that those buried were Aztec's.  The ruins at Wupatki, were abandoned over 1000 years ago, but the irrigation systems are still functioning.

The Mesa Verde and Canyon De Chelly complexes are are evidence in stone of a sophisticated society, that existed and thrived in the Sout West. The Tlingit peoples of the NW can trace their line back 5000 years, through records.

The Calico Early Man site,in California is reported to be 100,000+ years old.  I am a bit sceptical about that, I have a close friend that is an anthropologist, and he feels a lot of what they are calling worked stone is more probably the result of geological action.  However the supporters have some pretty compelling arguments. 

There is a growing accumulation of evidence that there were two migrations into North America, one from Asia and another form Europe, at roughly the same time. There are stone tools that have been found in the Eastern US that are of the same construction as those of the Soultrean culture of Souther France, some what similar to the Clovis design but with out the hafting flute.

There is a lot more history in North America then we have been lead to believe.

Not Ancient Aliens.. but pretty conclusive fact. 

 


Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #90 on: May 07, 2014, 07:01:56 PM »
The Soultrean theory has a lot of pro and a lot on con going on with it.  Here is a site that explains it a bit.  The comments section at the end of the text is where a lot of the arguing occurs.  These people are not qualified archaeologists so much of what they say can probably be dismissed.

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-evidence-supports-solutrean.html

The Monte Verde site in Chile is currently the oldest known site I am aware of and predates Clovis cultural but is nowhere near 100,000 years old.  That figure is out of the range of any qualified archaeologists range for occupation in the Americas.  Carbon dating at Monte Verde is about 14,800 years old and there was charred wood at a level that was 33,000 years old but that date and the cultural material at that level is not accepted as accurate by the scientific community.

If there were two distinct migration routes into the Americas from Asia and Europe one still does not know who the Soultreans were.  Some think they could have been from North Africa, moved into France and migrated but all of that has little foundation at the present time.  There is some interesting DNA comments in the blog though.
 
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Offline hushnel

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2014, 07:09:35 AM »
We have a tendency to look at our ancestors as primitive, in the lowest definition of the word. I am fairly certain that trade routs across the globe were established some time before the end of the great ice sheets. Seeing how a majority of people live near the oceans we can assume it has always been so and for many of the same reasons. After the ice melted and seas rose near 400 feet, in many places, these routs had to be re established and much of the evidence of our ancient world was destroyed and buried offshore.

People are lazy, they are uncomfortable with"anomalies" of ancient artifacts, and just write them off.

Too much violence in the visual media, I'm going to go carve birds perched on Cherry Blossom Trees into glass. "o)

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2014, 01:22:24 PM »

There is a growing accumulation of evidence that there were two migrations into North America, one from Asia and another form Europe, at roughly the same time. There are stone tools that have been found in the Eastern US that are of the same construction as those of the Soultrean culture of Souther France, some what similar to the Clovis design but with out the hafting flute.

There is a lot more history in North America then we have been lead to believe.


The findings that you are talking about are relatively recent (past two decades or so). I don't think anyone is misleading anyone. We just interpret the evidence that we have. That evidence currently comprises a handful of disputed artifacts. The Solutrean theory dates back only to the 1990s, and deals with a time period way before the Viking discovery of America or any interaction they may have had with the locals. That is the time period I was interested in. I haven't found any good books on that subject, and the evidence we have on which to form any theories is very minimal.

There is a fair number of books on the Solutrean hypothesis for people in America such as Across Atlantic Ice, and there have been several Discovery Channel specials on the subject, which did a good job at presenting the evidence we have. Of course, all of those claims are highly disputed. For example, Morten Rasmussen recently published a genetic study allegedly showing no Solutrean DNA tracers in Clovis people. I don't know if the theory will eventually turn out to be correct, but the evidence right now is very sketchy. Almost everything said about it is 10% data and 90% speculation. 

There is certainly evidence of people and cultures in the Americas prior to European colonization. I don't think anyone is disputing that, and it's a well known part of history. We have quite a bit of literature on the Aztecs, the Maya, the Anasazi, etc.

Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2014, 02:43:15 PM »
There is more evidence to support an earlier population of peoples in North America then we earlier believed.  There is a site in Virginia that is claimed to be 17,000 years old. 

I have some personal experience with a find of human remains on the Columbia river, and those remains were dated back to around 11,000 years.  The remains were more closely related to Europeans, than Asiatics. There was a book written about that it is "Ancient Encounters", written by James C. Chatters PhD.

There are a number of documented finds in the West of a similar nature.  A lot of remains that have been found, and were just dismissed as European settlers, are being, re-examined, carbon dated and DNA tested. 

It is incontrovertible the we travelled much further in ancient times than was was originally thought.  There is some pretty conclusive evidence that there was commerce between Egypt and South America, three thousand years ago.

Then there are the remains of people with red hair found in China.  There are petroglyph?s in the SW that bear a strong resemblance to those found in Celtic Britain. 

We can continue claiming the world is flat, but that is getting tougher to support all the time..

Offline lgm

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2015, 04:56:23 PM »
The vikings are coming ! The Vikings are coming!
To night At 9:00 central  ;)
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2015, 05:11:58 PM »
Oh boy, my dose of extreme violence is back.

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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2015, 05:47:54 PM »
We'll be there! :popcorn: :popcorn:


Thanks, lgm! :cheers:
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Offline John Van Gelder

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2015, 08:24:15 AM »
Probably as historically accurate is one of my favourite movies, the 13th Warrior.

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2015, 08:39:03 AM »
It back? Right on i really enjoy it. That is my kind of tv, the tudors,  c.s. foresters horatio hornblower series on a&e ( before they started showing garbage) the sharpe's series based on bernard cornwell's books. Looking foward to the new season
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Offline wolfy

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Re: THE VIKINGS
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2015, 08:50:19 AM »
I think this is a great series......a little hard to get the secondary characters' names and roles straightened out in my mind once in a while, but other than that I'm really enjoying it!   The ships, arms, way of living & the quest for farmland that they lacked at home, but needed for perpetuation of the clans, being one of the paramount reasons for their raids in Europe........helps bring to mind the importance of farmland for food for those that get their food only from supermarkets. :)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX