Author Topic: "Bushcraft Knives"  (Read 4215 times)

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Offline Moe M.

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"Bushcraft Knives"
« on: August 07, 2014, 12:34:11 AM »

  It appears that "Bushcraft" has finally made the news,  two reasons that make me say this is that the word Bushcraft has been TradeMarked by someone who obviously considers the name itself a valuable commodity,  and the second is that several knife companies that have marketed sportsmans knives and tactical/survival knives in the past have now come out with new lines of dedicated "Bushcraft Knives".
  Two in particular have sparked me to open this thread,  now some folks may think I'm getting petty or just an old crank,  and everyone has a right to their opinion,  me included.
  First let me say I have nothing against either maker,  I have owned their products in the past, still do, and have not experienced any serious problems with any of them.
  My rant (if you choose to call it that) isn't even about the companies,  it's about the corporate geniuses that manage these companies that seem to know very little about the products they design and market or about the consumers they are targeting those products to.

  Cases in point,  Buck Knives is coming out with three new offerings targeted at Bushcrafters,  a knife, camp hatchet, and what they call a Chopping Froe,  they are selling for $80.00, $125.00, and $180.00 respectively,  besides being hideous to look at in their bright red paint they are not practical tool designs for bushcraft tools in my opinion,  the knife is more Tactical/Survival,  the hatchet is flat and appears to be the same thickness as the knife and Froe making it about useless as a camp axe,  the Froe is shaped and sized about like a Corn Knife sold at any Tractor Supply or Farm store for $20.00.
  IMHO, three cutting tools that are much better suited to the bushcrafter can be purchased from Condor Tool & Knife,  their Bushlore knife,  Small Forest axe, and Golok chopper are excellent and inexpensive bushcraft specific tools,  price wise all three can be purchased for under $50.00 each,  What is Buck Knives Thinking ???
  The other company is Ontario Knife Works,  they have designed what amounts to a steak knife the quality that you might find in any 99 Restaurant or Outback Steak house and called it a Bushcraft knife,  and they've priced it at $125.00,  about the same as a good semi custom or entry level custom knife,  quite frankly in my opinion it's not worth the money when again you can buy a Condor Bushlore or Kephart one third the price,  or for about the same money or a little less you can buy an excellent Jeff White bushcraft knife with a custom JR leather sheath,  What is Ontario Knife Co. Thinking ???

  Evidently they must be thinking that we are stupid,  or maybe they are just not thinking at all ???
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 03:52:56 AM »
 :thumbsup:
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Offline Dano

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 05:41:05 AM »
I had to chuckle Moe, that reminded me of things Cody Lundin said in an interview and he addressed in one of his books.   He was talking about cheaply made/gimmicky gear, people that buy said gear without learning skills and then naturally what came out recently about network television. 

Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 07:02:24 AM »
Cheap gear hurriedly made in a reaction to a newly discovered, rapidly growing market... hmmmm... Big surprise.

Isn't that the seedy underbelly (an unfortunate side effect?) of capitalism's supply and demand? I mean, we're all fans of entrenpeurship and making a buck and all, but isn't this one of sad side effects of our market-driven economies? People will buy this stuff because someone tells them they should, if they want the latest bushcraft stuff.

Or is it a simple case of their their prices are too high for the product offered (aka a little corporate greed)?

Whatever. I dunno. I try to find the good in the examples above - strip the red paint, pay less for it - but yeah, I find it a little , I dunno ....  "Off-putting."
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Offline Dano

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 08:16:38 AM »
Cheap gear hurriedly made in a reaction to a newly discovered, rapidly growing market... hmmmm... Big surprise.

Isn't that the seedy underbelly (an unfortunate side effect?) of capitalism's supply and demand? I mean, we're all fans of entrenpeurship and making a buck and all, but isn't this one of sad side effects of our market-driven economies? People will buy this stuff because someone tells them they should, if they want the latest bushcraft stuff.

Or is it a simple case of their their prices are too high for the product offered (aka a little corporate greed)?

Whatever. I dunno. I try to find the good in the examples above - strip the red paint, pay less for it - but yeah, I find it a little , I dunno ....  "Off-putting."

Along with that goes the old saying of "buyer beware".  Folks need to take the time to research things for themselves so they can make the best decision for THEIR needs, as opposed to just reading an advertisement and then dropping their hard earned money on items.

I think most of us here know certain key elements of what we need before we start shopping, then we read through the ads.  For people who don't know and start with the ads, they are more suspect of falling into the advertisement traps.

When we think about the gear offerings and how things were judged 40+ years ago, there were a lot fewer choices and things had to have merit to gain any following.  People understood the needs back then and looked to fill them differently than today.  Word of mouth, with a lot of field use, was how many many things either stood the test of time or fell into the shadows.  Today, a lot of manufacturers aren't afraid to risk an inferior product knowing that if said item fails, they can just bury it behind the latest, greatest "improved models"...kinda like a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 08:26:01 AM »
  I have nothing against capitalism, free trade, and the open market,  after all,  it's what made most of the industrialized nations of the world free and prosperous,  and for the most part why we can live the lifestyles we do today.
  My problem with this stems from concern that if it goes unrecognized or worse accepted what kind of market place and products will our kids be sorting through twenty years from now.
  Being my age has it's benefits and it's down side (no pun intended),  in this case 20/20 hind sight allows me to recognize or see things that younger people don't,  most young folks today have never lived in a world without Microwave ovens,  video games,  TV,  or McDonald's,  some of us have,  and It wasn't that bad, and I don't want to get into a political discussions about social issues, we are discussing products, manufacturing, marketing, and how it affects us.
  As I've been impressing you all with opinions on this subject for a day and a half a couple of things came to mind about the past and the present in regards to this discussion,  my thoughts went back to business people like Henry Ford and to men like my Father,  Ford was not altruistic, he went into business to be successful,  but he didn't set out to make a killing in the corporate world,  he did set out to make a product that he thought people could use,  he intended it to be simple,  inexpensive,  and well built with the end user in mind.
  My parents were born poor,  both worked hard,  started small businesses and eventually made a good living,  both provided products and services that people needed and wanted,  and both provided the very best of both that they could for a reasonable price.
  I don't see that same motivation in design and manufacturing today,  what I see are products designed to appeal to our imaginations and our senses rather than our needs,  whether they work or not,  or whether they are the highest quality that the selling price allows doesn't seem to matter anymore.
 Gone I think are the folks who built businesses based on a genuine interest in the products that they designed,  people like old LL Bean,  he was a hunter and fisherman,  he took pains making and marketing the very best outdoor products that simple working call people could afford and use,  while LL Bean is still in business and still carrying a lot of fine outdoor products,  the business is no longer dedicated to the ideals that drove old LL Bean the man.
  We can however when it comes to some outdoor gear,  find that same kind of love for the product and caring about the customers in the small family run shops like Four Dog Stoves and in the custom makers who actually listen to their peers and take the best products they can find, the best designs they can muster and turn them into products that really work and of which their owners can be proud to use and show off,  and usually at prices that are affordable to many of us.
  There are some companies who do listen and who do try to make quality products that are affordable to the common man,   for those of us that can't afford a custom made knife or a Gransford Bruks axe there are companies like Mora Knives and Condor Knife and Tool.

  Where and on what we spend our money sends a clear message to business,  by supporting those businesses that cater to our needs we send a very important message to those businesses that cater to their own needs first and put us at the end of the line.
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Offline upthecreek

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 08:45:42 AM »
It's all about the money and I believe to think anything else is naive. We don't get magazines with 75 of their 100 pages filled with ads for nothing. Make someone believe what they have isn't good enough and the new gadget is better...bam, money in the bank. Marketing. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 08:46:26 AM »
Agreed, Moe.

I used the term "under  belly" very purposefully. I believe bad things happen when people make shoddy products, products they don't believe in, and products that serve their own ends first (such as the whole 'disposable-you-need-to-buy-one-every-year' stuff). It is then that people get into makin a buck at any cost, and I think we all suffer. Gone are the days when money was made by properly supplying a decent, valuable and legitimate product, IMHO.

Now, we allow ourselves to buy their cheap, inferior latest and greatest, and unscrupulous businesses capitalize on our instant gratification world.

As Dano said, caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware.

Ymmv. This is all just my opinion.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 10:18:31 AM »
I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 11:52:25 AM »
I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.

  Damn,  you have a talent there my friend,  most of those attributes wouldn't impress me all that much,  but the oyster knife part would get my attention,  my dearly loved Buck 110 lost it's tip by falling victim to a un cooperative oyster on Cape Cod many years ago,  I did manage to reprofile the blade though it did end up about 3/8" shorter.  ;)
 Keep up the designing, you may end up selling the idea to Buck Knives or some other corporate head for big bucks (pun intended).    :thumbsup:
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Offline Sarge

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 01:31:21 PM »
Big bucks! Lol
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Offline Dano

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 02:07:18 PM »
Sarge forgot to mention the Light Saber part....it's on there, he's just too modest to brag on himself!

Offline Lamewolf

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 02:14:51 PM »
I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.

Don't forget to put some weird colored coating on it - like purple maybe ! :P
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Offline Sarge

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 02:44:45 PM »
Sarge forgot to mention the Light Saber part....it's on there, he's just too modest to brag on himself!
Modesty is one of my most admirable traits. LOL

Don't forget to put some weird colored coating on it - like purple maybe ! :P
Good idea. Maybe with a zombie green shoulder holster
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Offline wolfy

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 03:31:45 PM »
I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.

Don't forget to put some weird colored coating on it - like purple maybe ! :P
I'd seriously consider 'John Deere Green' as a color choice, if I were you.  You'd have farmers from all over the country clamoring for one......especially if you build it so it can also be used as a CORN KNIFE!  :banana: :popcorn:
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Offline comis

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 03:47:51 PM »
  I don't see that same motivation in design and manufacturing today,  what I see are products designed to appeal to our imaginations and our senses rather than our needs,  whether they work or not,  or whether they are the highest quality that the selling price allows doesn't seem to matter anymore.

 Gone I think are the folks who built businesses based on a genuine interest in the products that they designed,  people like old LL Bean,  he was a hunter and fisherman,  he took pains making and marketing the very best outdoor products that simple working call people could afford and use,  while LL Bean is still in business and still carrying a lot of fine outdoor products,  the business is no longer dedicated to the ideals that drove old LL Bean the man.

I can't agree more on this, and I think this phenomenon is observed not only in sharps, but in many outdoor related goods.  What sometimes worry me is the abusive use of word 'survival' which could have serious consequences, especially when a company advertises without much testing and just paint things orange.



Gone are the days when money was made by properly supplying a decent, valuable and legitimate product, IMHO.

Now, we allow ourselves to buy their cheap, inferior latest and greatest, and unscrupulous businesses capitalize on our instant gratification world.


I too do miss those days, which I am not merely buying a product, but I can trust the product will perform with quality, and the integrity of the people behind those product.

Nowadays, to make matter worse, I fear the inferior latest and greatest does not come cheap, and companies are just leveraging on what reputation their predecessors have built.   Instead of taking of customers and companies' long term interest, some short-sighted management might only be interested in their own instant gratifications.

Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV.

Offline Sarge

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2014, 03:13:03 PM »

I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.

Don't forget to put some weird colored coating on it - like purple maybe ! :P
I'd seriously consider 'John Deere Green' as a color choice, if I were you.  You'd have farmers from all over the country clamoring for one......especially if you build it so it can also be used as a CORN KNIFE!  :banana: :popcorn:
Thanks, wolfy. I'll be adding Recon Corn Knife to the model name.

Of course I'm having a little fun but I've read and agree with some good points made here. This is sorta related to my interest in butcher knives, Green Rivers and some of the other blades of the frontier, westward expansion, and the like. Those guys depended on their knives for their lives, livelihoods, meals, etc. and the blades were basic - no bells and whistles, no buzz words.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate an elegant knife. I just think a lot of the marketing and hype is silly. Instead of creating knives to meet demands, guess it's easier to introduce a knife then create a demand with ads, celebrities, the impending zombie apocalypse, and such. Kinda like all the fishing lures that catch fishermen instead of fish. The knives don't really have to "work", they just need to sell. Many people will buy them and won't use them anyway.

There's my 2 cents
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Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2014, 03:52:19 PM »
I'm designing a bushcraft survival combat tactical fighter hunter swat skinner samurai scalper diver sniper Bowie oyster knife. Its a large, compact, heavy-duty, lightweight, multi- use, specialized tool that should appeal to multiple target demographic groups.
Im in for one of those! :thumbsup:
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Offline Sarge

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2014, 09:12:33 PM »
I've processed your pre-order, KK. ;-)
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Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: "Bushcraft Knives"
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2014, 10:24:36 PM »

I've processed your pre-order, KK. ;-)
:)
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