Blades and Bushlore

Bushlore Topics => Fire! => Topic started by: PetrifiedWood on June 30, 2012, 07:39:21 PM

Title: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on June 30, 2012, 07:39:21 PM
Well I thought this might be fun for those of you who can achieve fire by friction.

All you have to do is post a video (preferably) or picture of yourself making fire by friction in this thread. Once you've done that, you can go to your profile settings and request membership in the Friction Fire Fellowship member group. Make sure to mention the post number of the post where you demonstrate the skill when you send the request.

So to recap, after you post your friction fire in this thread, go to your profile, mouse over "modify profile" then you will see a drop down list. At the bottom of the list, click "group membership", and then select "Friction Fire Fellowship" from the list. When the window opens up asking you to give a reason for your request, make sure you mention the post number in this thread where you posted the fire, and an admin or moderator will add you to the group.

Membership in this group will make your username appear orange in the "who's online" list at the bottom of the forum index page.

This is just for fun. There are no prizes or anything. I just thought you guys who already have the skill should get a little recognition, and perhaps this also would offer a little in the way of motivation for those who want to learn.

So, lets see you guys spinning up some coals! :)

Friection Fire Fellowship Members (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=16)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on June 30, 2012, 08:42:44 PM
Thanks, PW!  You said it.  I need motivation!  I have come close but no cigar.  I now know what I will be doing all day tomorrow and the next until I get it.

 :banana:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Kep on July 01, 2012, 03:04:33 AM
Here ye go then


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8w1RkwoYyI




(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/Kepisbushcraft3/FOLR%20Family%20Day%2020-5-2012/DSCN5526.jpg)

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/Kepisbushcraft3/FOLR%20Family%20Day%2020-5-2012/DSCN5542.jpg)

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n487/Kepisbushcraft3/FOLR%20Family%20Day%2020-5-2012/DSCN5548.jpg)

hand drill from the other day, not easy in the uk using our woods

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x476/Kepisbushcraft2/Fire/DSCN6647.jpg)
Title: Deleted
Post by: beanbag on July 01, 2012, 09:55:06 AM
First successful attempt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJyk2HaiBXM

Another success despite very bad technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AisJmb2m37E
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 01, 2012, 10:05:41 AM
Good job, gents! You guys are the first two members! :)
Title: Deleted
Post by: beanbag on July 01, 2012, 10:11:24 AM
deleted
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 01, 2012, 01:30:43 PM
Way to go guys!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on July 02, 2012, 07:50:23 PM
I like this idea. I haven't made one in a while but here is an oldie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf456HYEXA4

Creek  :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on July 02, 2012, 08:38:23 PM
nice one creek! glad to have you back :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Fire Steel 703 on July 03, 2012, 08:45:29 PM
Does the bow kit have to be one that we make ourselves?  I ask because I ordered a bow kit online cause I wanted to practice before I saw this thread.  So if i get a friction fire with it does that count or is that considered cheating?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 03, 2012, 09:19:07 PM
Does the bow kit have to be one that we make ourselves?  I ask because I ordered a bow kit online cause I wanted to practice before I saw this thread.  So if i get a friction fire with it does that count or is that considered cheating?

I think that would be ok. So long as you aren't using a cordless drill to turn the spindle! :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 03, 2012, 09:20:13 PM
nice one creek! glad to have you back :D

+1

You've been missed around here buddy!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Fire Steel 703 on July 03, 2012, 09:26:11 PM

I think that would be ok. So long as you aren't using a cordless drill to turn the spindle! :D

Ok, thanks.  If anyone else feels it would be cheating, just say so and I wont participate.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 03, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
I have made my share of both hand & bow drill fires, but not ever tried a plough type method. Nor have I used my mouth to hold the block before like some used to do.. I may have to learn the last two ways if my hand doesn't heal up right...
 One of these days, when I feel I can hold a block, I will try the bow drill again & have someone take pics of me doing it. (no vid cam yet). I am afraid the way my hand is healing that I will not ever be able to do the hand drill method again.
:(
& it is a pity since it was my favorite way of FF. I hope I am wrong about my hand. Not whining here, but this particular injury has put a damper in doing a lot of things I enjoy doing...& also my way of making a living..


Not gonna let it get to me though. I am going to make it(FF) one of my self assigned physical therapy exercises to try to get my hand usage back...
;)



Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Buckskin on July 03, 2012, 10:59:44 PM
:(
Not whining here, but this particular injury has put a damper in doing a lot of things I enjoy doing...& also my way of making a living..


Not gonna let it get to me though. I am going to make it(FF) one of my self assigned physical therapy exercises to try to get my hand usage back...
;)


Trust me that I feel your pain.  My hand injury ruined the way I make a living.  I am in school to learn new skills so I can drive a desk.  Its been about 2 1/2 years and I don't have full use back and likely never will.  Somethings are just not possible now, but I keep trying some things.

I have not made a bow and drill fire.  I guess it is well past time for me to whittle a hearth and spindle out of some this sycamore, cedar,  and mulberry I have around here and give it a go.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Binalith on July 06, 2012, 02:05:18 PM
workin on it...
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/obee508/IMAG0540.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: BigHat on July 06, 2012, 02:19:13 PM
+1 on having creek back, missed him being around.

i have a vid from when creek showed me how, but i haven't gotten the skill down by myself yet. when i come home from deployment i'll be sure to learn more and post up some success. i know if i try it on a ship it'll be frowned upon...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: CSugg on July 08, 2012, 03:10:35 PM
Hi guys,

I haven't posted in a while but I still lurk!

I've been trying a number of local woods for a bow drill. Here is one of my finds. It's "Magnolia Macrophylla" or big leaf magnolia. I find it mostly in creek or river bottoms. It works well, very well, for a bow drill. The only problem is that it really takes up water. It needs to be dried out completley before it works.


(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z324/chesleysugg/FFire%20Tuesday1/big%20leaf%20magnolia/P1000724.jpg)

Drill and hearth from same piece of wood.



(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z324/chesleysugg/FFire%20Tuesday1/big%20leaf%20magnolia/P1000726.jpg)

Makes a great coal.



(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z324/chesleysugg/FFire%20Tuesday1/big%20leaf%20magnolia/P1000728.jpg)

Good results.



Thanks,
Ches
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on July 08, 2012, 03:17:34 PM
Bummer >:(.  We're really short on magnolias here in Nebraska, but it certainly looks like produces a nice coal.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Binalith on July 08, 2012, 05:50:47 PM
Received some good advice from Beanbag today and got my first coal this evening. Got too excited and blew it out in my tinder bundle. I just broke my hearth board and I'm sweatin like pig, I'll get back at it in the next couple days when I get back from beantown.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 09, 2012, 12:12:34 AM
CSugg, That's good enough to qualify. If you want in the group just go into your profile settings as per the instructions in the first post and one of us will get your account added to the member group. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 09, 2012, 08:08:24 PM
I just spent the last 2 hours struggling to make my first friction fire with the bow drill.  I made it out of some ash wood (for the record I bought this as Menards).  The spindle, also, from ash from the same piece of wood.  The bow I made out of some branches I cut off the neighbor's tree and some 550 foliage colored paracord.  My bearing block was an old skate from a skate board.  I have to say that this was the hardest thing that I did in a long time.  If my ex didn't call me and ask me for some help in the middle of my struggles, I might have quit (again).  But as I was going to her house, I thought about what I was doing wrong and made the corrections and got it to work............... ......finally.

Yes, Dumb Butt cut his thumb making a notch in the bow to hold the paracord.

Hopefully, these pictures make it for approval.

(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/Bow%20Drill/DSC02813.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/Bow%20Drill/DSC02814.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/Bow%20Drill/DSC02815.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/Bow%20Drill/DSC02816.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/Bow%20Drill/DSC02817.jpg)

If I all is well, I will tell you all the horror stories that went with the above.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on July 09, 2012, 08:12:01 PM
approved :D good job Matt :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 09, 2012, 08:13:55 PM
Congrats Matt! :thumbsup:

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: beanbag on July 09, 2012, 08:17:07 PM
Welcome to the FFF Chaos.  Bloody finger and all. 8)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 09, 2012, 08:17:32 PM
Thanks!
I had nothing but bad luck (which was my lack of experience).  I had made 4 different coals.  1st Nothing under the hearth to catch it.  2nd had a sheet of waxed paper but I couldn't pick it up off the ground and the coal burnt out.  (I bent the corner up on the waxed paper for the 3rd).  3rd had no bird nest ready.  4th finally sat down before making this one and made sure all my (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif) was in 1 bag.  Other than my not being prepared, the hardest part was making the bow drill.  I don't know why I had so much trouble with it but I did............. :shrug:

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 09, 2012, 08:19:48 PM
Slightly off topic: Do any of you guys get so into your work and realize how dangerous you are actually being?  2 times, I realized while using my small knife to drill out the hearth that I brought it up to my chest right by my sternum for better leverage.  Thankfully, I caught myself and didn't stab my heart out.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: beanbag on July 09, 2012, 08:46:39 PM
Do any of you guys get so into your work and realize how dangerous you are actually being?

Yeah, I was being stupid carving a spoon tonight.  It takes so many chops/cuts that you get careless, but I got lucky and caught myself before I cut myself.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on July 09, 2012, 09:42:23 PM
Do we yet have an official B&B Purple Heart medal for injuries suffered in the line of duty when trying for qualification in these ancient methods of fire production?  I think it's time to consider it :-\
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Binalith on July 10, 2012, 10:52:24 AM
Got it this morning before breakfast, but I'm not happy with my pictures so I'm gonna try to do it again later for credit. Plus my hearth board is absolutely mangled
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/obee508/IMAG0558.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 10, 2012, 04:45:53 PM
Ok, here's my entry. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP_dHSTqBdE
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on July 10, 2012, 09:23:16 PM
where is your title??? you are APPROVED :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 10, 2012, 09:27:14 PM
where is your title??? you are APPROVED :P

Well my title is taken up by "administrator" right now, lol. But I will add a custom title just for kicks. I'd have to make FFF my primary member group in order for it to be the default display group. ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 10, 2012, 09:27:49 PM
Way to go, PW!

Nice work!
 :banana:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 10, 2012, 09:30:40 PM
Way to go, PW!

Nice work!
 :banana:

Thanks Matt! I'm pretty stoked about it!  8)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 10, 2012, 09:31:53 PM
Congrats P.W.!
 :thumbsup:

This is my next P.T. .

 :D


You folks are makin me "motivated"!
;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on July 11, 2012, 12:04:42 AM
where is your title??? you are APPROVED :P

Well my title is taken up by "administrator" right now, lol. But I will add a custom title just for kicks. I'd have to make FFF my primary member group in order for it to be the default display group. ;)

darn, i knew you wouldnt fall for it :P i was waiting for the PM "red, can you make me an administrator again, i changed my member group and now i cant log in" or something along those lines :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 11, 2012, 12:06:42 AM
:rofl:

Yeah I am still embarrassed from the last time!  :-[

Not taking any chances this go-around.

:taunt:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: JTD on July 13, 2012, 10:24:30 PM
Cool, just see this thread.. Gonna give it a go.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 14, 2012, 12:41:10 AM
Ok, I'm going to hold off on my membership for the time being until I get success with a tinder bundle.  :doh:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Binalith on July 14, 2012, 05:48:15 PM
thats what I did, I forgot to take a picture of my bundle so I decided to do it again, and haven't had time to get back to it. ggrrr.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 17, 2012, 11:03:45 AM
Well, Duke & I went out yesterday in about 99-100 deg. F. heat & gusty winds ta boot. So we went back to that pine grove I have mentioned before, to get some shade & a bt of wind protection.

I was going to show a few of the methods, but after doing just one, my hurt hand was throbbing & cramping, that one is all I could do at the time. I think I may have overdid my P.T. a bit. I had some success, but I am not happy with the result, so I am D.Q.-ing myself this time, even though I got flame. It was "Pure -D dammn luck" that I got the fire the way I did. I got it when I dropped the tinder bundle, when my hurt hand started to cramp up from holding the block & then the bundle. I had to stretch my fingers to get rid of the cramp & dropped the bundle to do it. I even dropped my cellphone that I was taking pictures with, n order to massage with my good hand. The bundle wasn't lit when it left my hand, but after stretching & cussing a little while. I looked down & saw the nest was burning on the ground, where it was dropped. I quick picked up the cellphone & snapped a pic before t went out. So I do not count this as a success.  >:(


I will try again in a few days. Prolly use one of the other methods, to show them, since I have already prepped them anyway. I brought them home with me.


Here are some pics though:


Set up:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting2.jpg)


I was also gonna do some knife compares, but didn't get around to it this tirp.. Next trip, maybe.
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting1.jpg)


Some of the materials, & such. Willow, ash(I think/not sure), cottonwood & bark,etc.:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting3.jpg)


Batoning 2 hearths, one for Split stick method & one for regular:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting4.jpg)


(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting5.jpg)


Those two hearths made & drilled:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting6.jpg)


Hearths spindles laid out & a small bearing block on right. t was too small so I used the spilt hearth as a block, drilled a bit of a divot in the middle & used that instead. Fit my injured hand better.
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting7.jpg)


Made a crappy Double stick hearth & drilled a divot, should work though. Knife tip pointing at divot
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting8.jpg)


Cottonwood bark as tinder bundle/nest this time:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting9.jpg)


Tinder bundle/nest made:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting10.jpg)


Bow made:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting11.jpg)


Burning in the divot:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting12.jpg)


Saved that dust to put under notch:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting13.jpg)


Notching:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting14.jpg)


Drilled & made ember, waited a bit for it to "coagulate/build" before moving to nest.
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting15.jpg)


In the nest:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting16.jpg)


Waving/blowing & getting smoke. This is where my hand began to cramp & I dropped the nest & my camera:
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting17.jpg)


Here is the pic where it lay on the ground where I dropped it.  >:(
(http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/FireMakingOuting/FireOuting18.jpg)


Well. there it is & I am not satisfied, since I did not "blow/wave" it to flame. So, as I said... in a couple days I will give it another go. Likely with another method to show them too. Not sure yet. Let my hand rest a bit & temps to cool a bit too.
:)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: beanbag on July 17, 2012, 11:19:30 AM
Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.

'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:

A) Spun up a coal,

B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and

C) It burst into a flame,

I would think that easily qualifies.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on July 17, 2012, 11:28:08 AM
Nice job, Mn!  One thing I noticed in your picture series that you showed nicely and I feel is an important part of notching a hearth board, was the undercut.  That is not normally shown in most photos I've seen of this process.  It's one that greatly enhances one's chances of achieving success in producing an easily retrievable ember that hangs together and lasts long enough to transfer to the tinder bundle.....it could be why your 'fumble' produced fire on its' accord :hail:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WoodsWoman on July 17, 2012, 11:40:34 AM
MnSport..  you lost me at the 'coagulate' picture.       When your spinning the bow/stick into the hole, is that board on top of the one you put the dust on?  Your notch is lined up to the dust pile underneath on the bottom board?   

WW.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on July 17, 2012, 07:59:50 PM
@MnSportsman: Well, I vote you were successful. Not sure one necessarily needs to have the tinder bundle in hand when getting flame. Ya got fire by friction. Kinda like when airplane pilots say, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing." I guess another way of looking at it is you demonstrated success with an injury.

Perhaps you're thinking one should show his skill as repeatable (to minimize the fluke factor). Kinda like those who try to break the land speed record. They have to make two runs within an hour which are averaged together to get an official speed.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 17, 2012, 08:52:13 PM
Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.

'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:

A) Spun up a coal,

B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and

C) It burst into a flame,

I would think that easily qualifies.

+1
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 18, 2012, 05:48:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUIJMKs2ch8

Success!

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 18, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
:thumbsup: P.W.!

:D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: beanbag on July 18, 2012, 06:22:23 PM
Yeah PW!!!

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!!! 8)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 18, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
Thanks guys! :banana:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 18, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
Way to go!
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 18, 2012, 07:10:57 PM
Yeah I finally can feel right about putting the FFF title back in my profile. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 19, 2012, 06:58:19 AM
MnSport..  you lost me at the 'coagulate' picture.       When your spinning the bow/stick into the hole, is that board on top of the one you put the dust on?  Your notch is lined up to the dust pile underneath on the bottom board?   

WW.


"Build" or "grow" might be a better term than "coagulate" WW.
 :)
Letting the coal get bigger so that it is less likely to go out when ya move it to the nest. The dust is a part of the process of "burning in" the divot, & helps to add to the bulk of the coal pile when you are actually trying to get a coal. So rather than waste it, I transfer it to the base board, knife blade, bark, etc. that I am gong to form the coal on, right under the notch I make.
 :)




@MnSportsman: Well, I vote you were successful. Not sure one necessarily needs to have the tinder bundle in hand when getting flame. Ya got fire by friction. Kinda like when airplane pilots say, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing." I guess another way of looking at it is you demonstrated success with an injury.

Perhaps you're thinking one should show his skill as repeatable (to minimize the fluke factor). Kinda like those who try to break the land speed record. They have to make two runs within an hour which are averaged together to get an official speed.


It is not my first time... I have done & can do better. I was angry that my hand was giving so much trouble...When things were going so well til right at the end, when it cramped up...
I wasn't happy that I didn't 'blow" it to flame. Obviously, I was close to flame or at flame when I dropped it, but "I" was not satisfied with "my" results. So I will do it again.
 :)
Thanks for the "success" vote
 :D


Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.

'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:

A) Spun up a coal,

B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and

C) It burst into a flame,

I would think that easily qualifies.

+1
 :thumbsup:


Thank ya both, Beanbag & Matt Chaos for yur votes also!
 :D


I will be doing this again, sometime in the next day or two. I want to satisfy myself, & also work on PT of the hand... I'll take pics again & try to show the other methods too.
:)



Then I will be "qualified", with no harm to any.
;)



Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 19, 2012, 08:50:53 AM
I agree, your previous pics should qualify, but it's up to you to decide if you are satisfied with your effort. :)

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 20, 2012, 10:43:22 AM
Here you go.
This one is a mini set using Caesar Weed (Urena lobata) board and Goldenrod (Solidago fistulosa) spindle.
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/062741.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/06:27:41)
(http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/063322.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/06:33:22)
This one is more of a standard set using Seasoned Pine board and Dog Fennel (Eupatorium capillifolium) spindle.
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/063440.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/06:34:40)
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/063929.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/06:39:29)

Oh, and the bow and socket are seasoned scrub hickory. The cord is a strip off of either an old rubber tire or a fan belt. Is two coals with different friction woods enough?  ;D

Oops. I just realized I didn't blow the coal into flame with a tinder bundle. If you need me to do this I will.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 20, 2012, 11:28:18 AM
That is a massive ember!

As for the tinder bundle...

I will leave that up to you to decide. At first I made an ember, but withdrew my membership until I was able to successfully get a flaming tinder bundle. With embers like the one in your picture I don't think you'll have any trouble at all! :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 20, 2012, 11:57:20 AM
Well here you go anyway.
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/075401.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/07:54:01)
(http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/075415.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/07:54:15)
(http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/075540.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/07:55:40)
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/075611.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/07:56:11)
(http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20060502/075620.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2006-05-02/07:56:20)
It was a rush job since I have other things to do. I would have done a nice fire lay and all with good natural materials but no time right now. That is why I just used a jute tinder bundle and some scrap wood shavings and twigs.

BTW, that makes three coals I spun up today.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 20, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
Awesome, congrats RBM! I'll add you to the group right away. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 20, 2012, 01:33:43 PM
Way to go RBM!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on July 20, 2012, 02:49:37 PM
great job RBM! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 20, 2012, 08:05:42 PM
 :thumbsup: RBM!


 :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 20, 2012, 08:14:44 PM
Congrats RBM! 

Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

 :-\

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 20, 2012, 09:01:04 PM
Thanks, Folks. But I have really been doing this for years now. Yes I do not always get coals but I do "most" of the time because of friction wood knowledge and experience and lots of practice.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

You will get it. Just keep on keeping on. It took me a year before I got my first coal. I would make it a point to work the firebow at least once a week and I still do. It took me another year before I got "consistent" coals.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 20, 2012, 10:47:27 PM
Thanks, Folks. But I have really been doing this for years now. Yes I do not always get coals but I do "most" of the time because of friction wood knowledge and experience and lots of practice.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
Tomorrow.  I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow!  Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!

You will get it. Just keep on keeping on. It took me a year before I got my first coal. I would make it a point to work the firebow at least once a week and I still do. It took me another year before I got "consistent" coals.

*Gulp* A year?!?  I gotta get this tomorrow! ;)

But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 21, 2012, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 21, 2012, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
I actually thought of trying that way initially, as it seems the most 'realistic' scenario. In other words, I'd be whipping up a bow and spindle ONLY if every other course of action was unavailable.

But after trying it, I've decided it's gonna be optimum conditions before i ever get this thing working.

I didn't try today. I think I burnt out yesterday trying too hard in that heat, so I kinda did other stuff today. Maybe tomorrow or Monday.

By the way, I'm using pine. Any good? I've had black dust but no ember yet...

KK
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 21, 2012, 08:49:57 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
*Gulp* A year?!?

Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.

Quote from: kanukkarhu
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do.  Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord.  Not so easy, in my experience! :)

It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL

If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.


You are right in that (underlined).. If you have not done it before... going out & doing it will be a lot harder if you do not know the woods to look for when you are out in the sticks.
 When I went out for this stuff earlier this week to do this, I took the stuff right from the woods... made it work, but I dropped my nest... My fault.. But I didn't just get the stuff out of a woodpile or off a shelf somewhere. The whole works came from the woods. All natural & harvested in the hour right before I made the sets. I made fire, but didn't get it on film...
So I'll do it over... Done it before... I'll do it again...
 ;)
But you are speaking the truth. It is harder to do out in the sticks, than it is in an easy environment. Knowing how dry things are & what materials will work is a big part of the doins... If ya make the wrong choices in the picking.. you'll regret it in the doins..
 :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 21, 2012, 08:53:13 PM
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

 ;)
Even Spruce is better than pines.
 :)


Just for you K.K.:
 Manitoba Trees  (http://www.gov.mb.ca/conservation/forestry/pdf/health/fieldguidefinal.pdf) (<<--Click me . I am a Adobe PDF file). ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 21, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

 ;)
Even Spruce is better than pines.
:)

Ahhhh... maybe THAT explains my dismal failures... Grrrr.  "Dead cotton wood"... "Poplar" to me, right?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 21, 2012, 09:01:59 PM
I put a link up for ya.. in the post above...Check that out.
;)


It may help a bit.
:D


G'Luck!
:)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 21, 2012, 09:03:02 PM
I put a link up for ya.. in the post above...Check that out.
;)


It may help a bit.
:D


G'Luck!
:)
Thanks buddy!  :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on July 21, 2012, 09:09:25 PM
Sure!
 :D


We all work together to learn better ways....
 ;)


Somewhere in the many Friction Fire Topics posted in the last month... Easy rider75 or Fire Steel75, or someone...(Can't remember now) put up a list of wood types that are listed in the scale of how they do with Friction fire use.
Ya may want to search that list & compare it to the trees ya have in your area. I have it a bit easy here, since I have been around the area I live for a while, thus knowing the trees that are around here, & which are decent, & which ones are crap.. Since you just got up in the area you are, comparing the two. The list, & the trees in your area... might help. But even a dry red Cedar board from the local lumber yard or mill would do ya better than using Pine, IMO....
 ;)
As I said...G'Luck & Good Fortune!
 :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 22, 2012, 08:10:38 PM
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 22, 2012, 08:21:03 PM
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!

If you can show yourself making fire with it, I don't see why it shouldn't count. I would think any primitive friction fire method should count, bow drill, pump drill, fire thong, fire saw, fire plough, etc.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 22, 2012, 08:52:28 PM
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch?  I suck with a bow drill!

If you can show yourself making fire with it, I don't see why it shouldn't count. I would think any primitive friction fire method should count, bow drill, pump drill, fire thong, fire saw, fire plough, etc.
This challenge has peaked my interest much more than gathering twig bundles, or some other inane exercises. The challenge will be to make a pump drill with natural materials, and no workshop bench tools.  8)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 22, 2012, 09:09:29 PM
That would be truly something special!

I did some reading about the Egyptian bowdrill the night before my attempt. They actually used them to bore holes in stone. What they did was use copper tubes on the end of the spindle shafts, and they would use abrasive sand to help the copper abrade a circular cut into softer rock.

I know you said that you aren't good with a bow drill, but if you found a suitable wide flat rock, and found it's balance point, you could bore a hole through it using that method and then use it as your spindle weight for the pump drill. Final balancing can be achieved by "pecking" a method of stone work ancient cultures used whereby they shaped rocks by using a hammer stone to break small bits off the surface of the stone being worked. You'd simply peck the heavy side to remove material until the spindle and weight are satisfactorily balanced.

In my area there are a lot of flat, relatively soft pieces of sandstone with pretty consistent thickness that would be easy to work, but they are all angular in shape and would take a lot of pecking and grinding on other stones to take on a circular shape.

Another possibility would be to make a round, flat basket arrangement around the spindle and use small gravel to add weight and balance it.

I've seen weights made from layers of plywood glued together, but to do that out of natural materials you'd need to do some serious carving and flattening of the individual wood layers on both sides, and strong natural glues are time consuming to make.

In any case if you do make one, when you consider the effort involved it would definitely be best to make the spindle such that you can replace the tip every so often.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 22, 2012, 11:46:09 PM
I have a plan for the "fly wheel" weight that will knock your socks off (remember those words).
I'm actually kind of excited about this. I have my spindle picked out, and just need a hearth board.  Gotta go look at that list I posted.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Angerland on July 23, 2012, 12:41:07 AM
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 23, 2012, 05:58:50 AM
A couple of hints I read about in one book or another...

Screeching sound means the divot has glazed over. You can stop drilling and scrape the divot and spindle to remove the glaze.

Adding a few grains of fine dusty sand to the divot can help prevent it from glazing.

I know the first one is true from my own experiences this past week. Haven't tried the second one.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 23, 2012, 09:34:29 AM
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.

now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!

Same.  Sucks, eh?

Title: Deleted
Post by: beanbag on July 23, 2012, 10:07:01 AM
deleted
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 23, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
Hmm... Maybe we are experiencing different results with different woods?

The juniper set I've been using has only screeched on me one time. After scraping the shiny black stuff off the spindle end and out of the divot, it stopped the screeching sound. I believe it's chatter from the glaze allowing the spindle to slip, and then grab, slip and then grab as it rotates in the divot. When mine was screeching it wasn't producing any dust. After scraping it out (and re-shaping the spindle end so it wasn't a perfect match for the divot) it began to produce dust again and was relatively quiet. I hadn't drilled down deep enough for the sides of the spindle to contact the divot yet at that point.

Last year when I tried using regular pine from a 2X4, I got a lot of screeching and hardly any dust. I think the resin in the wood contributes to the glazing and chatter.

But, I still need to get a lot more embers under my belt before I can say for certain if this is what's happening.
Title: Deleted
Post by: beanbag on July 23, 2012, 10:26:46 AM
[
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on July 23, 2012, 12:51:01 PM
My experience with screeching is usually due to sap/ resin or moisture in the wood. Can also get screeching if the spindle drills too deep into the fireboard. Can widen the divot or shave off the sides of the spindle making it skinnier. Often times if the divot is too deep the spindle will bind and prevent smooth action (ie. spindle flip-outs). A general rule of thumb is the fireboard should be no thicker than the diameter of the spindle. Example, if the spindle is 1/2" diameter then the fireboard should be 1/2" or less thick. This improves chances of success and efficiency as there's less fireboard mass absorbing the heat (more of the heat is directed to the dust pile in the notch). Also, it's quicker and easier to fill the notch with dust and get it to critical temperature.

I occasionally use sand to help the spindle bite into the fireboard when doing the hand drill. Usually with a fresh set. Saves wear & tear on the hands. I rarely need to do this with the bow drill (fire bow).
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 23, 2012, 01:00:52 PM
So here's a silly question. I've heard a 'fail' using waxed paper to catch the coal under the notch. I even saw one guy cheat and use char cloth.
So what is the consensus here of what to use under the hearth board to catch the coal for transfer to the bundle?
Title: Deleted
Post by: beanbag on July 23, 2012, 01:22:15 PM
[
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 23, 2012, 02:08:00 PM
My experience with screeching is usually due to sap/ resin or moisture in the wood. Can also get screeching if the spindle drills too deep into the fireboard. Can widen the divot or shave off the sides of the spindle making it skinnier. Often times if the divot is too deep the spindle will bind and prevent smooth action (ie. spindle flip-outs). A general rule of thumb is the fireboard should be no thicker than the diameter of the spindle. Example, if the spindle is 1/2" diameter then the fireboard should be 1/2" or less thick. This improves chances of success and efficiency as there's less fireboard mass absorbing the heat (more of the heat is directed to the dust pile in the notch). Also, it's quicker and easier to fill the notch with dust and get it to critical temperature.

I occasionally use sand to help the spindle bite into the fireboard when doing the hand drill. Usually with a fresh set. Saves wear & tear on the hands. I rarely need to do this with the bow drill (fire bow).

That is very true! I noticed that the pile of dust can't easily ignite until it has accumulated into a high enough pile to fill the notch in the fire board.  Having a taller board means you have to drill that much longer to make the dust pile high enough to reach where the heat is.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 23, 2012, 02:13:18 PM

That is very true! I noticed that the pile of dust can't easily ignite until it has accumulated into a high enough pile to fill the notch in the fire board.  Having a taller board means you have to drill that much longer to make the dust pile high enough to reach where the heat is.
You may have just given the Key for why so many people get frustrated. This one "secret" is a pearl!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 23, 2012, 02:54:41 PM
I had to dig through 58 pages of my old photobucket album to find this picture...

But, this is a real prehistoric fire board artifact from the Fremont Culture people that lived in Utah around 1000 years ago. There are other artifacts in the display case. Sadly, the rest of the kit wasn't there so it's impossible to tell if it was a bowdrill or hand drill fire board. But, perhaps there is something to be learned from the size and shape of the board, and in particular the shape of the notches, remembering of course that they would have been notched with stone tools. It's possible that access to steel knives or saws would have affected the shape of the notches they used.

(http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff485/ThePetrifiedwood/PWmain%201/IMG_6004.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on July 23, 2012, 03:11:03 PM
So here's a silly question. I've heard a 'fail' using waxed paper to catch the coal under the notch. I even saw one guy cheat and use char cloth.
So what is the consensus here of what to use under the hearth board to catch the coal for transfer to the bundle?

Just about anything can be used as a coal-catcher (aka ember-pan). I often use a dead leaf that's usually within arms reach. I also use folded out cardboard boxes (such as a cereal box) when demonstrating on video (helps with contrast). I've seen folks even use their knife or hatchet blade as a coal-catcher. A wood chip, shaving, another flat piece of wood, bark, etc... are often used as well.

Can even have no coal-catcher and push the dust pile & coal on the blade of your knife to transfer to the tinder bundle. Some folks won't even transfer the coal, instead just pile pieces of punkwood on and around the coal and blow that to flame. Others will even use the tinder bundle itself as the coal-catcher (fireboard is set on top of the bundle). Basically, you just need a place for the coal to form and way to get tinder around it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 23, 2012, 03:19:58 PM
Thanks, LR!

PW: The first thing I notice about that board is that some of the divots/sockets/whatever don't go all the way through the board. The two on the right end do, the others don't. All appear used.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: NWYeti on July 23, 2012, 05:42:05 PM
Here is my entry for FFF.
The spindle and hearth are Cottonwood. Socket and bow are Hawthorne
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-34g73SAN6aw/UA3A9OEoYEI/AAAAAAAAAAo/YvTSQPlLKYk/s144/2012-07-22%252012.27.36.jpg)

Tinder bundle of Cedar and Cottonwood buds
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-03rN810Fa6k/UA3AVAYSh4I/AAAAAAAAAAU/sfS-b_ZBZxQ/s144/2012-07-22%252012.38.52.jpg)

Thanks
-Chris
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 23, 2012, 07:16:39 PM
Good enough NWYeti! Just go to your profile and send a member group application as per the instructions in the first post, and someone will add you to the group. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on July 24, 2012, 11:39:31 PM
I am gonna do this, but when it isn't 100 degrees with 72 degree dewpoints.

I have never once, made a friction fire out of all the fires I have made. I will earn that orange lettering ;)

I even have some cedar on hand.

Does the hearth board need to be the same wood as the spindle?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: NWYeti on July 25, 2012, 12:04:36 AM
I am gonna do this, but when it isn't 100 degrees with 72 degree dewpoints.

I have never once, made a friction fire out of all the fires I have made. I will earn that orange lettering ;)

I even have some cedar on hand.

Does the hearth board need to be the same wood as the spindle?

I find that I've had the best results with making the spindle and hearth from the same stick. Also Cottonwood is a little more forgiving than some other woods.
-NWYeti
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 25, 2012, 12:09:48 AM

I find that I've had the best results with making the spindle and hearth from the same stick. Also Cottonwood is a little more forgiving than some other woods.
-NWYeti
Never hear much about cottonwood, so that's interesting. I have tons of it around here.
How about American Elm?  I'm up to my neck in that crap, too.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: NWYeti on July 25, 2012, 11:11:32 PM
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 25, 2012, 11:33:58 PM
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".
She's using the root for the hearth board?  How about the spindle?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: NWYeti on July 25, 2012, 11:56:04 PM
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".
She's using the root for the hearth board?  How about the spindle?

I think she just uses it for the hearth board but I'll have to ask her the next time I see her. Thomas Elpel also references it in Participating in Nature but I don't recall if he actually says that he uses the root wood for both.   
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 29, 2012, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
        K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.


    now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!


Same.  Sucks, eh?

I agree. Start off with some Cedar (if you have it) or Willow that work on themselves. Pine is the wrong wood but "seasoned" Pine is not the wrong wood (see the coal above I got with seasoned Pine and I do this regularly) but it is the wrong wood for a beginner. Use "seasoned" Pine later. If you have Yucca around, that would be the best. Real quick to get a coal with a Yucca spindle on just about any board. Yucca has one of the lowest temperatures for friction of most any friction wood except a Mallow family plant such as Caesar Weed above that has an even lower temperature than Yucca. Much quicker coal with Caesar Weed and it works on itself like all Mallows. Other Mallows are Hibiscus and Velvetleaf. My first coal however was Willow on Willow. My second coal was Maple on Maple but I would not suggest Maple for a beginner because it is a little on the hard side and harder to get a coal.

Some say cottonwood is real good but since I don't have any here, I can't say. If you are not sure of your wood types for friction wood then use the "fingernail etch test."
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 29, 2012, 01:49:54 PM
Over the past couple years, I've heard a lot about mullien spindles, but not much about the hearth board.
Any comments on mullien?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 29, 2012, 07:31:58 PM
I harvested a few mullein stalks last year while thy were still green, and let them dry in a corner of my shop. I have not checked them out yet to see how they held up. But...

I also had a stalk I harvested after the spring snow melt last year that was one of the standing dead stalks. It was very dry, very lightweight, and very fragile. It had a large central core of pith that was broken in a lot of places, and an outer layer of lengthwise fibers that came off the core pretty easily. The impression I got is that it was a bit on the fragile side to use as a bowdrill spindle, but you might get away with using it as a hand drill. I also tried shaving paper thin pieces of the pith and could not get them to take a spark from a flint and steel, or ignite in a fire piston. It's possible I had an anomalous stalk, but if the ones I dried out in my shop are any indicator, they are just as light and fragile feeling and I suspect that the mullein in my area is unsuitable.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 29, 2012, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: Old Philosopher
Any comments on mullien?

No mullein here either. But give a horseweed spindle a try. ;D Works on willow among other boards.

Went out today and made a cord and set from scratch and learned the hard way once more that it is especially critical with a natural plant fiber cord to get the right materials and parts (no marginal stuff) or the cord won't last through the process due to struggling with the materials and parts. Even with low temperature friction woods. I did not have a straight spindle and the boards were boards I should not have been using. Needless to say it was a failure.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on July 29, 2012, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
        K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.


    now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!


Same.  Sucks, eh?

I agree. Start off with some Cedar (if you have it) or Willow that work on themselves. Pine is the wrong wood but "seasoned" Pine is not the wrong wood (see the coal above I got with seasoned Pine and I do this regularly) but it is the wrong wood for a beginner. Use "seasoned" Pine later. If you have Yucca around, that would be the best. Real quick to get a coal with a Yucca spindle on just about any board. Yucca has one of the lowest temperatures for friction of most any friction wood except a Mallow family plant such as Caesar Weed above that has an even lower temperature than Yucca. Much quicker coal with Caesar Weed and it works on itself like all Mallows. Other Mallows are Hibiscus and Velvetleaf. My first coal however was Willow on Willow. My second coal was Maple on Maple but I would not suggest Maple for a beginner because it is a little on the hard side and harder to get a coal.

Some say cottonwood is real good but since I don't have any here, I can't say. If you are not sure of your wood types for friction wood then use the "fingernail etch test."
Gonna try some poplar as soon as I can get the time.

Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 29, 2012, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
Gonna try some poplar as soon as I can get the time.

I have heard that poplar works. I have also heard sycamore works. Basswood is suppose to work. I have seen these on friction wood lists. I don't have that big of a selection here where I live so many woods found up North listed on lists I don't have here.

Theoretically any wood "should" work if it is dry enough but wood density and sap content may dictate otherwise for some woods.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on July 29, 2012, 09:25:09 PM
I harvested a few mullein stalks last year while thy were still green, and let them dry in a corner of my shop. I have not checked them out yet to see how they held up. But...

I also had a stalk I harvested after the spring snow melt last year that was one of the standing dead stalks. It was very dry, very lightweight, and very fragile. It had a large central core of pith that was broken in a lot of places, and an outer layer of lengthwise fibers that came off the core pretty easily. The impression I got is that it was a bit on the fragile side to use as a bowdrill spindle, but you might get away with using it as a hand drill. I also tried shaving paper thin pieces of the pith and could not get them to take a spark from a flint and steel, or ignite in a fire piston. It's possible I had an anomalous stalk, but if the ones I dried out in my shop are any indicator, they are just as light and fragile feeling and I suspect that the mullein in my area is unsuitable.
I have a 5 1/2 foot walking stick I made out of a 9 foot dead mullien. I think I posted a pic somewhere. Anyway, it's strong enough to bear my weight, if I don't get stupid. It weighs 9 oz.
I have three 4' stalks that have been drying since last fall. I'm going to give one a shot, and see what happens. Thanks for the tips!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on July 30, 2012, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Old Philosopher
Any comments on mullien?

No mullein here either. But give a horseweed spindle a try. ;D Works on willow among other boards.

Went out today and made a cord and set from scratch and learned the hard way once more that it is especially critical with a natural plant fiber cord to get the right materials and parts (no marginal stuff) or the cord won't last through the process due to struggling with the materials and parts. Even with low temperature friction woods. I did not have a straight spindle and the boards were boards I should not have been using. Needless to say it was a failure.

Out of curiosity, what did you make the cord from? I've had success using Saw Palmetto and Queen Palm strands (off the branch). I like them because they're long enough where you don't have to splice them (That, and Saw Palmetto is everywhere and easy to find). I haven't tried Caesar Weed fibers yet. Apparently they have excellent tensile strength. I've not had the best luck using natural cordage were splicing is used (ie. reverse twist cordage).
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 30, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
Quote from: LetsRock
Out of curiosity, what did you make the cord from? I've had success using Saw Palmetto and Queen Palm strands (off the branch). I like them because they're long enough where you don't have to splice them (That, and Saw Palmetto is everywhere and easy to find). I haven't tried Caesar Weed fibers yet. Apparently they have excellent tensile strength. I've not had the best luck using natural cordage were splicing is used (ie. reverse twist cordage).

I will tell you what I use (have available) here. Saw Palmetto stem strips (not fronds) is very tough but the fibers inside the stem can stick in the skin like little needles when dry. The part of the stem I use is the outer green skin layer (taking small strips from that) after removing the inside stem fibers. Yucca leaf is my favorite because it is also super strong and....I can leg roll it, something I can't do with the palmetto stem strips due to its stiffness even when wet. I also use Cocklebur bark, best when just turned woody (leg roll) but green will also work (although stiff). Cocklebur green bark should be handled with caution, the sap (as well as all parts, especially the seed burs) is toxic so mind where you put your sappy hands until you clean them. Caesarweed bark is good also but it must be used thick for a firebow cord (a little on the brittle side).

I use single two ply cords on friction woods that have low friction temps (quicker coal woods). I once got five or six coals with one Yucca cord using both Caesarweed and Yucca sets. I only reverse twist a single two ply cord into a doubled cord for friction woods that have higher friction temps like Willow and Maple. Single cords will not take the stress of higher friction temp. woods in my experience.

This photo shows reverse twisted double cords. Yucca leaf top. Bottom left is Cocklebur bark. Bottom right is Caesarweed bark. No pic of Palmetto stem strips though. Notice the wood types, Willow and Maple so reverse twisted double cords.
(http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/949785/20120105/202624.jpg) (http://www.dropshots.com/RBM#date/2012-01-05/20:26:24)

The cord I used yesterday was a single palmetto stem strip cord. But I was using a Yucca spindle. Big problem was crooked spindle and wrong board types. Too many attempts and struggling and the cord did finally break. Choose your materials well and shape your parts carefully.

If you are having trouble with splicing and other plant cord problems, I highly recommend this DVD on Primitive Fire & Cordage. Cording, splicing, and leg rolling. Easy splicing that is not shown in the PWL&SS or UGTWL book. It is worth the $25.
https://www.createspace.com/208759

You will not see reverse twist cording from John and Geri. That is something that I do. Just take a single two ply cord and twist in the reverse direction just as if you are doing a single cord. You will splice in the same way just opposite (so remember splice opposite twist way). John just uses two single two ply cords. One to burn in the spindle and one to go for the coal.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on July 31, 2012, 06:41:00 AM
Thanks, RBM! Excellent info. Looks like we're on the same page. Yesterday, I went out and messed around with Saw Palmetto. I used the stem (or branch) fibers just as you described. I went with a little different approach with the bowstring, though. I selected the longest (best) fiber strands and just twisted them together tying a simple knot on each end. Here's a vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CP6S8tgt90

I was skeptical on how well the Palmetto fibers would work so I didn't video the harvesting and processing of the fibers. I'll see about getting that on video as I've had a couple other folks ask how I made the bowstring.

I haven't noticed Cocklebur before. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on July 31, 2012, 07:11:12 PM
Great job.  :) That should easily qualify you on the FFF. That Egyptian method is easier on those plant fiber cords. A lot of times I don't take the time to make a longer cord so I just use the tension method but its harder on the cord. Since you live in Tampa you should have virtually the same plants I have here in the South Central part of the State.

Cocklebur likes to grow in wet places like ditches, ponds, and such. If you find Willow, you usually can find Cocklebur. Those sticky little round seed burs that you find on your pants. Just be mindful not to put your hands around your eyes and mouth or open sores when handling it green and sappy. Wash up after cording it. Once its dry it should be okay to handle without worry. Dry dead Cocklebur bark is okay to handle. Do not ingest any part of the Cocklebur either. The seed burs are especially toxic. Cocklebur bark is stronger in my experience than even Caesar Weed bark. Look for the green velvety leaf similar to Caesar Weed but darker. Caesar Weed leaves are lighter green. I often find Cocklebur and Caesar Weed growing beside each other however Caesar Weed tends to like its feet a little drier. So it would not be uncommon to see Cocklebur down in a ditch with Caesar Weed growing on top of the ditch.

I would probably rate the cordage this way for strength. Best is Yucca leaf. Next Palmetto stem "skin." :-\ Next Cocklebur bark. Finally Caesar Weed bark. I have messed with other plant fibers here but none come even close to those four for strength. I had one fellow tell me that root bark was better. So I did extensive testing on various root barks here and none of them came close either.

I have seen Cocklebur in more counties in FL than the USDA map shows. I think the kind we have here is "Rough" Cocklebur.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=XANTH2
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 31, 2012, 07:41:35 PM
Great information guys!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on July 31, 2012, 08:08:51 PM
LetsRock-I gotta hand it to you, that was very impressive!  I figured the cordage couldn't hold up to the friction, but I guess that's another reason to learn the Egyptian method.  Very nice work you did on this, thanks for sharing!!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on August 01, 2012, 12:00:12 PM
I'm just to hear to say that friction fire in Manitoba Canada HASN'T died off - it's just taken a bit of a holiday, is all... ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 01, 2012, 02:04:48 PM
Good deal KK. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 01, 2012, 06:13:46 PM
Like your Ray Mears quote, KK. But I like these better.

"Bushcraft is what you carry in your mind and your muscles."

"The great thing about bushcraft is that wherever you go, the skills go with you."

"Knowledge is the key to survival and the best thing about that is: it doesn't weigh anything."

"You cannot underestimate the importance of preparation."

Give Les a call over in Ontario and you will have the firebow licked in no time. lol Just kidding.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on August 01, 2012, 07:04:59 PM
Like your Ray Mears quote, KK. But I like these better.

"Bushcraft is what you carry in your mind and your muscles."

"The great thing about bushcraft is that wherever you go, the skills go with you."

"Knowledge is the key to survival and the best thing about that is: it doesn't weigh anything."

"You cannot underestimate the importance of preparation."

Give Les a call over in Ontario and you will have the firebow licked in no time. lol Just kidding.

Hahaha!  Yea, I like Les.

I like those quotes too.

I chose that particular RM quote tho because, first, he kinda introduced me to the gentlemen's art of bushcraft  - which is a lot like just hangin' out and enjoying time out of doors - and I've been disgusted by what I see as the ever-increasing trend to make "bushcraft" into like an extreme sport or something.  I thought that quote brought it "down home" again.  For me anyway!  :)
 
I am off here soon for a coupla weeks and I am making  a run for the hills.  During that time, the art of fire by friction will... be... MINE!!! Mu-hahahahahaaaa! >:D

(Plus I've been super busy!)

KK
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 01, 2012, 07:20:11 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
and I've been disgusted by what I see as the ever-increasing trend to make "bushcraft" into like an extreme sport or something.

Ah, well all those TV shows and personalities are entertainment value anyway, not instruction. If they were instruction nobody would want to watch them. These personalities get their show and then they get their endorsements. Its all about the $.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on August 01, 2012, 09:28:57 PM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
and I've been disgusted by what I see as the ever-increasing trend to make "bushcraft" into like an extreme sport or something.

Ah, well all those TV shows and personalities are entertainment value anyway, not instruction. If they were instruction nobody would want to watch them. These personalities get their show and then they get their endorsements. Its all about the $.

True enough. 

I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc. 

I prefer what we got going here in this thread: zero judgement. LOTS of great info and encouragement.  Exchange of ideas, back and forth, and no one called anyone out yet!!  THIS is great, and this, IMHO, is bushcraft.  We all want each other to learn and grow and enjoy ourselves, but at out own pace.  A lot like if we were talking one night around a campfire, I think...

 :soap:  Rant over.  Sorry.  :(
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 01, 2012, 09:48:21 PM
[...
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc. 
....

 :soap:  Rant over.  Sorry.  :(
No rant!!! QFT!
 And to those of the mindset in the highlighted paragraph, I say... "....and the horse you rode in on!"   :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on August 01, 2012, 10:19:29 PM
[...
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc. 
....

 :soap:  Rant over.  Sorry.  :(
No rant!!! QFT!
 And to those of the mindset in the highlighted paragraph, I say... "....and the horse you rode in on!"   :P

+1 :hail:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 01, 2012, 11:36:38 PM
All of that minus this elitist, snobbish, groupie, my knife can beat up your knife, fan boy attitude.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 02, 2012, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: kanukkarhu
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc. 

I will tell you why they do that. A lot of folks just talk and don't practice the skills and it is evident in what they say that they have spent no time on the skills whatsoever. Even some books are published by folks that have written what others have done before but have not done it themselves. They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. So you need to pick your skills reading material accordingly. I don't think there ought to be any "certification" of this or that. This can get into politics that is censored here. Here is what John McPherson had to say about it:

Quote from: John McPherson, Primitive Wilderness Skills, Applied & Advanced, p.188
And while I'm on the subject of politics - would you believe that we have seen in print that some people seem to think that there should be rules to govern people doing just the sort of stuff that we are writing about? Duh! Talk about big government. Fini

Some folks don't like the idea that you the individual person are self-sufficient and independent (self-reliant) via your own skills no longer needing the social infrastructure that we have today in this artificial society to survive. Again its all about $. If you don't need them, their services and products they think, then you threaten their livelihood. So they want to take away your freedom and liberty so they can live off you.

The sad fact is that no one can truly live the wilderness lifestyle long term and they don't know that. You can do it short term, meaning you will have a short life span. Why? Our ancestors long ago gave up the hunter gatherer lifestyle because the wilderness (its called that for a reason) cannot support human life long term. So they needed agriculture both plant crops and domesticated animals to survive long term. They also needed medical attention and to do those things you need a community.

Okay. My rant done. :soap: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 02, 2012, 08:21:16 AM
Alrighty then...

Here's another video where I show how I make and use natural cordage for the bow drill bowstring (using Saw Palmetto). The video's a little long, just over 16 minutes, as I mainly show harvesting and processing of the natural cordage. Overall, it took about 2 hours from foraging to flame. I've been practicing trying to go all natural. The only man-made thing I used was the main blade on my Swiss Army Knife. Eventually, I'd like to be able to use only natural tools & materials. I used Longleaf Yellow Pine and Saw Palmetto to make the set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLWTWCdeZVU

Here's a hi-res photo of the set I used:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7697783708_40c5a0b524.jpg) (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7697783708_d4ad3e8a6c_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 02, 2012, 08:45:41 AM
Great, LR. :) We are indeed on the same page. I can see that grapevine leaf used for socket lube. I use it too.

Quote from: LetsRock
The only man-made thing I used was the main blade on my Swiss Army Knife. Eventually, I'd like to be able to use only natural tools & materials.

Then you will have to go to Brooksville quarry or some bridge rip-rap to get any chert here for a good natural rock edge. FL just doesn't have any natural rocks for breaking into an edge otherwise. Or buy some chert or flint for an edge. Or do it without an edge by breaking the parts and shaping them by grinding.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 02, 2012, 09:02:29 AM
Yup, you're right! Finding usable rocks is not very common in Florida. I actually have some good rocks I found in Ocala National Forest. I've also toyed with using sea shells. Breaking and splitting wood into workable pieces seems do-able as well. Working with checks (cracks) is another option. Just gotta kinda look around a bit harder for these types of options and think how to 'make do' somehow, ha ha. I'll keep practicing.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 02, 2012, 11:31:27 AM
It's a bit of a shame the FL climate being so humid means artifacts made of natural materials like wood don't usually survive. It would e neat to see how pre-Columbian Florida people made fire. What materials they used, and how they shaped them into a useable form.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 02, 2012, 11:52:50 AM
It's a bit of a shame the FL climate being so humid means artifacts made of natural materials like wood don't usually survive. It would e neat to see how pre-Columbian Florida people made fire. What materials they used, and how they shaped them into a useable form.
You might need SCUBA gear to do that.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-12-03/news/9104190110_1_clovis-people-prehistoric-artifacts
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 02, 2012, 12:01:18 PM
I process my palmetto stem a little differently. I don't smash it to get the fibers. Some things I do smash but I don't with palmetto stem. It seems to me that the stiffness of the skin will remain even when wet and I don't want to damage the skin by smashing to loosen it. First thing I do is make sure there are no rattlers around the palmetto or guinea wasps under the fronds. I first run my knife along the sides of the stem to remove the saw spines. Then I cut the stem off at the base and then the frond leaving only the stem. I insert the knife blade on one end of the stem near the flat side and push down and in leaving me with the intact green outer stem strip. This requires some practice without cutting the skin. Just splitting the stem down its length will also work. Then work the strip breaking away the white inner fibers from the green skin one section at a time so I don't tear the skin. Once I have the length of skin I take smaller full length strips from that and cord them splicing in where I need more length. The stiffness does make it harder to cord and harder on the fingers. But your fingers get stronger by doing it.

This link shows the standard method for cording a single two ply cord. However I do not leg roll the same way as it shows. I leg roll like McPherson keeping the twisted lengths tight while rolling is critical. Some fibers like the palmetto skin or some green barks are too stiff to leg roll.

http://www.primitiveways.com/cordage.html

It even shows splicing the same way I do. Just lay a new length on the short end and fold the tag end (about one inch long) of the length over on the long end. Then keep cording. See figure 5 diagram. Much easier and faster than trying to blend individual fibers into a short section.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 02, 2012, 02:21:59 PM
Yeah, my natural cordage approach is kinda crude on purpose. The logic being I'd like to be able to make something up quick and still have a good success rate with the bow drill. Like, if I got lost on a day hike, only have a couple hours of daylight left, and all I have is a basic pocket knife and velcro sneakers, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 02, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
Oh, I agree. The goal is the coal. Does not matter how you get there. If it works, use it. Nothing wrong with any approach as long as it works. I got some bad pine today so no coal. I don't think it was seasoned enough but the palmetto cord burned through two holes before it broke so that is good for a single cord as far as I am concerned.

As long as I have a modern cord, I will use it even if its my shoestrings. Let's face it, modern cords are stronger. I only use a plant fiber cords if I have to but I do practice it and I know I can use them and have successfully many times. Any cord will break eventually.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 02, 2012, 06:44:59 PM
Yup, that's why I like the popular flying quote, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing." Whatever way works, easy, hard, or anywhere in between.

I should have mentioned it took me several attempts before I was successful in my last vid. I ended up replacing the fireboard and bearing-block before finally getting success. I took about 1.5 hours of video footage, but in an effort to save time and minimize boredom I condensed it down to 16 minutes or so (which is still a long time in YouTube time). The problem in doing so means missing out on the troubleshooting and overcoming problems encountered along the way. Especially with fresh unproven materials. So, the success you see in my vid was not my one and only as it may seem, but my 3rd attempt. The good thing is the natural bowstring held up beautifully the whole time. So, it was durable enough for multiple attempts.

To be honest, I wasn't really sure I'd even be successful as it was another hot & humid day and the weather can be a big factor. If anyone noticed, it took me well over a minute of effort going for the coal. Generally, it shouldn't take that long, but I've been trying to figure out how to better deal with the high-humidity factor. Moisture is friction fire's Kryptonite.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 02, 2012, 07:05:55 PM
Quote from: LetsRock
To be honest, I wasn't really sure I'd even be successful as it was another hot & humid day and the weather can be a big factor. If anyone noticed, it took me well over a minute of effort going for the coal. Generally, it shouldn't take that long, but I've been trying to figure out how to better deal with the high-humidity factor. Moisture is friction fire's Kryptonite.

Yep. It does take a little longer when its humid. Spring and Summer is humidity time so you can expect to sweat a little more and the mugginess and the slight dampness that gets in the wood. Did I mention the pests? The deerflies, horseflies, mosquitoes, Blackflies, and gnats? At least the gnats don't bite.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 05, 2012, 06:45:53 PM
Made another cord and set earlier this evening. The seasoned pine was not top notch. The pine board just barely passed (I had to really pick the right spot on the board it was that bad after two other burn holes) but the pine spindle, as straight as it looked gave me problems as it wore down and began to woller around at the working end (I had to straightened the end several times). That just won't work. So I went and grabbed the straightest yucca spindle I could find (it had a split in it). Got a coal and blew to flame. Palmetto cord lasted through all of that and did not break. I did take it easy on the cord as I worked it (just spun with light pressure) and that helped.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 06, 2012, 08:04:03 AM
Excellent, RBM. Yeah, part of the fun is finding stuff that'll work. It's rare for me to find materials and make 'em work the first time out.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 06, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Thanks to RBM, LR, and others for making this probably the single most comprehensive friction fire thread on the web!  :thumbsup:

I came across this by accident. I guess it solves the problem of making fire if you have a broken arm. Although it looks like one of the prerequisites is being double jointed, or having no hip joints at all!  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS8GFtKztS4
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 06, 2012, 05:49:47 PM
Using your leg as a firebow. Well just when you thought you have seen it all.

There are a lot of other friction fire methods besides the firebow but most are just more labor intensive than the firebow that has the best efficiency. I know there are a lot of handdrill folks out there. Add firesaw, fire thong, fire plow, and so on.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 06, 2012, 05:56:04 PM
Yeah I think that leg bow thing is best left for those in their teens and 20's, lol!

Though oddly enough that video makes me wonder how many cool friction fire possibilities a person would have if they were stranded with a bicycle. Remember the Survivorman episode where he had a Mtn. bike? I'll bet something could be worked up using the cranks, bearings, tires, etc. I have personally gotten a lot of smoke from a bit of dry juniper trying to saw it in two with a bicycle brake cable. The sawing was slow, but it generated a LOT of heat. The wood itself was smoking quite a bit.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on August 06, 2012, 06:06:00 PM
So easy a caveman could do it!

Creek  :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 06, 2012, 06:30:15 PM
That Maslin is apparently a high-powered friction fire guru in the UK. Never heard of him 'til I stumbled on that video. I have no idea how old he is, but he's more flexible than I ever was!

Quick reference from Wiki:
Quote
Maslin is a senior instructor for the British Bushcraft School,[4] and inventor of a new method of creating fire by friction, The Maslin Leg Drill,[5] that enables a person to create fire by friction using only one arm?theoretically making it possible to do with a broken arm. According to Maslin's Twitter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter) account, he is currently hitchhiking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchhiking) over every landmass from Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) to England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England).[6]

Still working on my Fire Pump as time permits.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 06, 2012, 06:33:44 PM
Quote from: PetrifiedWood
Though oddly enough that video makes me wonder how many cool friction fire possibilities a person would have if they were stranded with a bicycle. Remember the Survivorman episode where he had a Mtn. bike? I'll bet something could be worked up using the cranks, bearings, tires, etc. I have personally gotten a lot of smoke from a bit of dry juniper trying to saw it in two with a bicycle brake cable. The sawing was slow, but it generated a LOT of heat. The wood itself was smoking quite a bit.

Sounds like a Fire Thong, PW. PNG Traditional Fire Making. PNG, that's Papua New Guinea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hky3XJ2t0aM&feature=player_embedded

The "string" used is a strip of bamboo. The wood is a local forest soft wood, with the tinder being bamboo shavings and palm fibres.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 06, 2012, 08:01:57 PM
Quote from: Old Philosopher
Still working on my Fire Pump as time permits.

Good luck with that!

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillNN.html

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrill01.html

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillAA.html
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 06, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
Quote from: Old Philosopher
Still working on my Fire Pump as time permits.

Good luck with that!

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillNN.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillNN.html)

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrill01.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrill01.html)

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillAA.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillAA.html)
Thanks! You're going to crack up when you see my solution to the "fly wheel" balancing act.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 06, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
I'll bet you could make a flywheel out of adobe reinforced with some strong plant fibers that would work pretty good. You'd just need a bowl shaped "mold" with a hole in the bottom for the end of the spindle. Then when it's dried it would be molded onto the spindle and ready to go. You'd probably want a few pegs sticking out the sides of the spindle to hold the adobe in place.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on August 07, 2012, 10:01:58 AM
you guys should talk to LetsRock, he has done these types of things before ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6LvJY_M40I
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 07, 2012, 01:32:16 PM
you guys should talk to LetsRock, he has done these types of things before ;)

LOL! I think LR is just sitting back waiting to laugh at my fly wheel.  ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 07, 2012, 03:19:16 PM
Cool, Red! I forgot you got that on video. It always seems to be more challenging when demonstrating in front of other people for some reason, ha ha. That fireboard wobbled all over the place there. It woulda worked better if it was firmly on the ground.

I won't laugh at your pump drill, Old Philosopher. If it works, that's really what matters. If anything, it could be a conversation piece, ha ha.

I've made several pump drill vids. Here's one where I demo a mini pump drill and also show a medium & a large sized pump drill in comparison. Each crudely put together. So, no aesthetic prizes with these, but they work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QI3Fk9nbkM

They're not too bad to make, but having a good understanding of the friction fire process helps because you have to make sure there's a balance between inertia, weight, and pressure (when pumping in both directions). Too much of one and not enough of the other can keep it from working well.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 07, 2012, 03:38:02 PM
Nice vid! Thanks.
My goal is to make a pump out of materials I'd find after I got myself in a fix and need fire without planning ahead. No drilling, no wheels, etc.  For a one-shot-deal like I'm contemplating, I will probably not worry about a socket for the spindle. I see the wisdom in that if you are going to keep the pump in your kit, and use it over and over.

But here's a really super-basic question I don't think I've heard, or I over looked somehow:

Is the coal formed from sawdust from the hearth board, or from the spindle?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 07, 2012, 03:40:42 PM
Seems to me it comes from both. But whichever wood is harder will erode slower.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 07, 2012, 05:10:01 PM
PW's got it right. The dust comes from both much like the bow & hand drills.

Well, give it a go your way. I've seen a couple vids where the pump drill is made from all natural materials. I'll eventually give it a try myself, but I don't think I could have pulled it off without experience making and using the man-made pump drills first. Finding a straight enough spindle and good counter-weight materials will add to the challenge. Even better if you can use natural cordage too. Good luck!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 07, 2012, 06:50:11 PM
PW's got it right. The dust comes from both much like the bow & hand drills.

Well, give it a go your way. I've seen a couple vids where the pump drill is made from all natural materials. I'll eventually give it a try myself, but I don't think I could have pulled it off without experience making and using the man-made pump drills first. Finding a straight enough spindle and good counter-weight materials will add to the challenge. Even better if you can use natural cordage too. Good luck!
Thanks! Just so no one is disappointed, I'm going to cheat in one regard and use jute/sisal twine. I'm having enough trouble finding the time to put this together in the first place, and I figure the jute twine is the closest thing I can get to "natural cordage" without digging up roots and chewing them into submission, or braiding nettle bark.  :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 11, 2012, 08:27:18 PM
Since RBM & I live in Florida and don't live too far away, we recently scheduled a meeting and compared notes on some of our bushcrafting skills, mostly relating to friction fire making. It was an excellent meeting. I learned a lot from him. It was cool to see different knowledge and skills from someone else. He knows his stuff. We met in a wooded area he was familiar with and there was a huge variety of materials to choose from. I finally got to see where Yucca & Willow are abundant. I'm used to just seeing Oak, Pine, & Palm most of the time.

He knew where all the different species were located (which saved a lotta time) and we selected materials to practice with. We found a shaded spot and I got a crash-course on the proper way to make natural cordage with Yucca (as opposed to my crude twist & go approach, ha ha). Yucca's wonderful stuff for cordage. I can see why everyone likes it. I learned I was splicing the fibers wrong all this time. No wonder I was so frustrated with making natural cordage (with splices). Especially, for a bow string.

We each had good bow drill successes using the freshly found materials collected earlier; Mainly Yucca & Willow as I had little experience with them. We also had numerous failures as well. It was expected, as it was very hot & humid out. We did eventually resort to using paracord after wearing out the Yucca bowstrings. Mainly, to save time (not have to twist up new cordage).

A great meeting. I highly recommend meeting with other folks who don't live too far away who share similar common interests. You might think you know a lot about something til you meet with someone who also knows a lot and shares his knowledge & skills with you. Even better when you find out you've been doing it wrong and didn't really know it, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 11, 2012, 08:36:54 PM
Awesome.  Very cool to get together and share.  And if you picked up so much...I wanna meet this guy!  lol
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 11, 2012, 09:21:49 PM
Jeff is a great guy. I also learned better ways of cord management on the firebow from him and different techniques. Just have to get used to doing it another way and that will take some time. I had too thick baseboards most of the time and knew better. We have had some rain in this area over a few days before Jeff and I went out so there is a good bet that the wood was on the damp side and add humidity to that so struggles were to be expected. The other alternative was to dig deep down to much drier wood but that would have taken a good while. When trying to make and use friction sets and natural cords on the fly from scratch it can be a struggle but other times it can work first time especially when the weather is dry. Much harder than sets already made waiting to be used. The Seminoles did it the right way, making and collecting their sets, and then taking them to their lodges and proper drying before using. We always talk about preparation. Ideally materials including tinder and kindling should be collected dry before foul weather and kept dry so there are less problems.

Jeff got to eat some palmetto cabbage, asking me about its calories. Well, probably not much but way better than nothing if you have an empty belly. Eat it raw or cooked. Most of the berries here I think have gone out of season. Kind of waiting on the local Muscadine grapes to put out right now. Too bad I didn't take the time to get into some Greenbriar. Fresh young Greenbriar tips are pretty good. A lot can be done for survival with just pine and palmetto. Shelter, tinder, fire, containers, cordage, and food. That is a lot. So getting stuck in the pine barrens is not so bad. It happens to be were most folks end up camping anyway. The drawback "can" be lack of water in pine barren areas. Plant food to me is a way of putting something in my belly until traps and snares pay off. I look forward to another excursion with Jeff. Maybe next time baskets, edibles, practicing traps, primitive fishing, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 11, 2012, 09:33:25 PM
Sounds like a great get together! It's awesome that you guys got to share some techniques and both of you come away better for the the experience. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 12, 2012, 09:21:53 AM
Jeff is a great guy. I also learned better ways of cord management on the firebow from him and different techniques. Just have to get used to doing it another way and that will take some time. I had too thick baseboards most of the time and knew better. We have had some rain in this area over a few days before Jeff and I went out so there is a good bet that the wood was on the damp side and add humidity to that so struggles were to be expected. The other alternative was to dig deep down to much drier wood but that would have taken a good while. When trying to make and use friction sets and natural cords on the fly from scratch it can be a struggle but other times it can work first time especially when the weather is dry. Much harder than sets already made waiting to be used. The Seminoles did it the right way, making and collecting their sets, and then taking them to their lodges and proper drying before using. We always talk about preparation. Ideally materials including tinder and kindling should be collected dry before foul weather and kept dry so there are less problems.

Jeff got to eat some palmetto cabbage, asking me about its calories. Well, probably not much but way better than nothing if you have an empty belly. Eat it raw or cooked. Most of the berries here I think have gone out of season. Kind of waiting on the local Muscadine grapes to put out right now. Too bad I didn't take the time to get into some Greenbriar. Fresh young Greenbriar tips are pretty good. A lot can be done for survival with just pine and palmetto. Shelter, tinder, fire, containers, cordage, and food. That is a lot. So getting stuck in the pine barrens is not so bad. It happens to be were most folks end up camping anyway. The drawback "can" be lack of water in pine barren areas. Plant food to me is a way of putting something in my belly until traps and snares pay off. I look forward to another excursion with Jeff. Maybe next time baskets, edibles, practicing traps, primitive fishing, or something along those lines.

Yeah, we'll have to connect again and focus more on the other important bushcraft skills as well.

The more I practice friction fire-making with fresh from scratch materials the more I think the Native Indians and other indigenous peoples over the ages had to be smart enough to make sure they didn't have to do that too often (ie. pre-made sets, coal-extenders, continuous fires, etc...). Just as we make sure we always have a lighter or matches when we go into the woods, the Indians must have also ensured they had a reliable means to make fire with them as well. Especially, in inclement weather.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: greyhound352 on August 12, 2012, 09:34:55 AM
Next time I would like to also attend if not busy. Glad to hear you both got out.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 12, 2012, 10:34:18 AM


...The more I practice friction fire-making with fresh from scratch materials the more I think the Native Indians and other indigenous peoples over the ages had to be smart enough to make sure they didn't have to do that too often (ie. pre-made sets, coal-extenders, continuous fires, etc...). Just as we make sure we always have a lighter or matches when we go into the woods, the Indians must have also ensured they had a reliable means to make fire with them as well. Especially, in inclement weather.
IIRC, when they found the "Ice Man" (can't remember the name they gave him), didn't he have a fire kit with him, as well as a tinder supply? I think I saw a picture of it somewhere on the 'net.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 12, 2012, 11:23:11 AM
You know I volunteered to the local scout troop leader here but guess what? He has the aid of the local Seminole tribe here that make my skills look puny by comparison. But he knows he can use me if needed and I did volunteer to help if needed. I am glad that this local troop is indeed well versed in primitive bushcraft skills where so many other troops are not. Leadership can make or break a scout troop. I know as I did not have that in my troop when younger. They either follow Powell or they don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baden-Powell,_1st_Baron_Baden-Powell
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 13, 2012, 06:54:16 PM
Quote from: Old Philosopher
IIRC, when they found the "Ice Man" (can't remember the name they gave him), didn't he have a fire kit with him, as well as a tinder supply? I think I saw a picture of it somewhere on the 'net.

Quote
The other was a type of tinder fungus, included with part of what appeared to be a complex firestarting kit. The kit featured pieces of over a dozen different plants, in addition to flint and pyrite for creating sparks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 14, 2012, 08:29:51 PM
Nah no, I got it! Ya'll relax. I'll make fire the hard way, ha ha.  :P

Bow Drill Fire - All natural materials (including bowstring). Fresh, On-The-Spot Laurel Oak with Palmetto bowstring. Oddly enough, I used Pine to break down the Palmetto fibers (hammer & anvil method). Took just under 2 hours from foraging to flame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcmbKnKMWo
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 14, 2012, 09:10:18 PM
Quote from: LetsRock
Fresh, On-The-Spot Laurel Oak with Palmetto bowstring.

Well, you are another one up on me as I have not done palm stems and I have never gotten oak to work especially with a plant fiber cord. :) Oak is some kind of hard wood. :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 14, 2012, 10:19:19 PM
The key is to use the branches. Same for Water Oak, Live Oak, and Hickory. They seem to be a little more sensitive to humidity, though. Compared to Longleaf Yellow Pine, for instance.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: dog.breath on August 15, 2012, 10:36:10 AM
Hi everybody.  Afraid I haven't been around much, lately, just lurking now & again, but saw this thread & thought it was pretty cool.

These are some pics from a couple years ago, using yucca bow-drill tools & shredded juniper bark tinder.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5008/5252022574_3b2fd0d026.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/spirituscanis/5252022574/) (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5252024152_67a1471999.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/spirituscanis/5252024152/) (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5251432883_483805eb4e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/spirituscanis/5251432883/) (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5043/5251409799_67582b60c5.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/spirituscanis/5251409799/)

And here's a video from earlier this year using a yucca hand drill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmLrkqvu7A

Cheers,
Patrick
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 15, 2012, 10:44:21 AM
Looks good, you're in!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: dog.breath on August 15, 2012, 10:46:35 AM
Thanks, PW!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 15, 2012, 10:52:30 AM
Let'sRock,  do you have a vid out on making the palmetto cordage?  Looks alot skinnyer than the sabal palm cordage you did last year at Pott's or Kicco (can't remember which).
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 15, 2012, 12:06:52 PM
Yup! A few videos back I showed how I made the cordage. The 1st half gets into the making of the cordage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLWTWCdeZVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLWTWCdeZVU
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 15, 2012, 12:14:50 PM
I want to thank you guys for making this thread such an awesome learning experience! There is so much good information here. I had hoped we'd get a few tips and tricks here and there but all the knowledge and experience you guys bring to the table has really exceeded my expectations. Really, truly thank you! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 15, 2012, 12:21:16 PM
Hear! Hear! +1!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 15, 2012, 12:30:33 PM
Let'sRock is the Kracaneuner Friction Fire Master.  Hands down.  Props to the king.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 16, 2012, 07:42:00 AM
Thanks for the props, but this is one skill where it's easy to get over-confident one minute then completely humbled the next. Lotsa practice and some tricks-to-the-trade can help keep a good success rate (and a level head). When I was editing my last video, I wanted to include all the failed attempts and still keep the video length reasonably short (tough to do). It can be very misleading when all the 2 minute videos we see out there only show the successful attempt (usually making it seem like it was the first and only attempt) yet not show the 10 failed attempts beforehand. Realistically, it's rare for me to find materials, fashion the set, and get success the first time out. Usually it's after several attempts to work out the bugs before finally getting a coal. Then there's the mistake factor or chances of something going wrong. I often have butterfingers where I was successful getting the ember, but somehow mess up getting it into the tinder bundle (like dropping the ember on the ground).

Yesterday, I went out and tried with on-the-spot Sabal Palm & Palmetto bowstring. I've been successful with Sabal Palm many times before, but I'm still trying to factor working in high-humidity into my technique. It works great when I take it home and let it dry first, ha ha. Also, the Saw Palmetto I used was more woody and I had a tougher time making it into cordage for the bowstring. I tried another frond stem and it was a little better. Surprisingly, it still worked, but it looked like a rats nest when I was using it, ha ha. I had to use a little more finesse to keep the smooth action. It held up better than I expected, though despite how it looked.

I found a different type of Pine tree. Normally, I'm only surrounded by Longleaf Yellow Pine, but this Pine was a shortleaf. Not sure which species. Perhaps, Sand Pine or Slash Pine. Surprisingly, it worked very well as I've not had good success with other types of Pine trees in the past. My Palmetto bowstring finally broke so I used paracord. It was about as easy as using Yellow Pine. I'll revisit the area again and learn more.

Believe it or not, I often chalk this up to exercise. I need a good reason to get my butt off the computer chair; Get outside, get some fresh air, and sunshine, ha ha. What do they recommend? 30 minutes to an hour a day of some sort of physical activity. So, when I don't feel like getting all dirty & sweaty I'll ask myself if I got in my daily physical activity today. So, I try to plan it into my daily routine somehow. So, anybody else who suffers from Sedentary Rationalization Syndrome (SRS) like me needs to get out there and learn this skill, ha ha. So, even if you don't get success you still got exercise, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 08:15:55 AM
LOL.  Friction fire making is an aerobic activity. puff puff.  c'mon you...baaaah! puff puff
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 08:24:01 AM
BTW I'm putting paracord in my boots for laces for the pot and machete challenge.  I'm not real great with friction fire...I'm worse with nat. cordage.  Ha ha!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 16, 2012, 09:03:10 AM
I forgot to mention, I ride a mountain bike to the wooded areas I practice in. So, that adds to the aerobic activity. Although, when things aren't going right with the bow drill it's easy to get so focused and determined (zoned in) you decide to brute-force it to get success. You'll be amazed how much aerobic activity you get when this happens, ha ha.

Glad you mentioned paracord. I wasn't planning on carrying it. If we get to use paracord, the success rate for fire goes up dramatically.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 09:10:35 AM
Well, I would say no to just carrying it coiled.  But as shoe laces it's not "loading" the kit.  Frankly, I'm trying to figure fishing in too.  Gutted paracord is "can do" for line.  I've got to practice self-made onsite hooks.  Not an easy task.  I also thought about a small net from palm.  Kinda like one of those cheapo crab nets that's just a square.  You bait, wait, and yank it up. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: greyhound352 on August 16, 2012, 09:29:28 AM
I
Well, I would say no to just carrying it coiled.  But as shoe laces it's not "loading" the kit.  Frankly, I'm trying to figure fishing in too.  Gutted paracord is "can do" for line.  I've got to practice self-made onsite hooks.  Not an easy task.  I also thought about a small net from palm.  Kinda like one of those cheapo crab nets that's just a square.  You bait, wait, and yank it up. 


If we get lucky maybe we can find a hook on site. Back in February where my hammock was there was a hook in the tree with some fishing line on it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 09:34:47 AM
I'm in the no scavenging camp.  We could easily find some tackle on 10 miles of river.  But the game is "run watcha brung" for me.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 16, 2012, 09:45:05 AM
Well, I would say no to just carrying it coiled.  But as shoe laces it's not "loading" the kit.  Frankly, I'm trying to figure fishing in too.  Gutted paracord is "can do" for line.  I've got to practice self-made onsite hooks.  Not an easy task.  I also thought about a small net from palm.  Kinda like one of those cheapo crab nets that's just a square.  You bait, wait, and yank it up.
Strands from paracord will work for a simple gorge hook. Not sure what's naturally available in your area, but the N.A. in the PNW used nettle bark for salmon fishing lines, and making nets. Strong stuff.

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae250/Old_Philosopher/Fishhooks/307414e1.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 09:50:08 AM
The cordage isn't easy but within our skill sets.  It's the hooks.  There's alot of very small brim (panfish like bluegill) that are ubiquitous.  teeny hooks...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 16, 2012, 10:34:30 AM
The cordage isn't easy but within our skill sets.  It's the hooks.  There's alot of very small brim (panfish like bluegill) that are ubiquitous.  teeny hooks...
That's the beauty of the gorge hook. You can make them so tiny it's a challenge to tie a line to them. Bone slivers, thorns, carved nut shell...anything strong enough to stay wedged in their throats without breaking when you haul 'em in.
The real challenge is getting them unhooked without dissecting them.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 16, 2012, 10:38:40 AM
Okay. After spending a good portion of the morning at the extension office and the county agent, the plant I have been calling Caesarweed/Velvetleaf is not that but it is a Mallow family member as I originally knew it was. But it is called......Heartle af Sida (Sida cordifolia). So Jeff, you have Heartleaf Sida. Excellent friction wood like all Mallows. Side note it is used medicinally and contains Ephedra (stimulant, appetite suppressant).

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=SICO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sida_cordifolia

Also (Jeff) what I was calling Torpedo Grass (different long slender shoots and leaves) is actually Cogon Grass (Imperata cylindrica). Big problem for folks trying to control it.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IMCY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperata_cylindrica
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 16, 2012, 10:49:59 AM
The cordage isn't easy but within our skill sets.  It's the hooks.  There's alot of very small brim (panfish like bluegill) that are ubiquitous.  teeny hooks...
That's the beauty of the gorge hook. You can make them so tiny it's a challenge to tie a line to them. Bone slivers, thorns, carved nut shell...anything strong enough to stay wedged in their throats without breaking when you haul 'em in.
The real challenge is getting them unhooked without dissecting them.

I eat the whole damn thing OP.  The hook is the least of my worries as far as eating.  Gorge hooks aren't as easy as they appear.  We'll put this all to a test this winter. ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 16, 2012, 11:07:05 AM
Thanks RBM. I'll see how my Sida's drying out and give it a go as a hand drill.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 18, 2012, 07:22:58 AM
Hey, Jeff. Since you have gotten coals with dead Cabbage Palm stems, have you tried dead Palmetto stems on the firebow? If that doesn't work out you can still use small piece of dead palmetto stem for a fishing cork or bobber. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 18, 2012, 09:56:37 AM
I've not really tried Palmetto stems as a fireboard or spindle. They tend to be on the thin and flimsy side. I wouldn't have guessed it'd make for a good fishing bobber. Thanks for the tip. The Cabbage Palm works well, but can be tricky sometimes if you can't find it in a good state of decay or when it's humid out.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on August 18, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
Well I never tried this before and have more to learn. This stick I started out with is Pignut Hickory. But I do think its not dry enough. I did get a nice pile of dust and smoke but no ember. And todays humidity probably doesnt help either? Tell me if you see some thing wrong please.

(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF001.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF002.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF003.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF004.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF005.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF008.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/SwampHanger/FFF009.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 18, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: SwampHanger
Well I never tried this before and have more to learn. This stick I started out with is Pignut Hickory. But I do think its not dry enough. I did get a nice pile of dust and smoke but no ember. And todays humidity probably doesnt help either? Tell me if you see some thing wrong please.

Well if this is your first time it probably is not a good idea to use hickory as friction wood. Hickory is a hardwood. A medium or softwood would be better. For the bow and socket hickory is great though. Good way to tell if a wood can work well for a friction wood is to use the fingernail or etch test. If the wood is too hard it won't etch, rotten and pushes in, but if it etches then its usually good. Sometimes though wood that etches may still have some sap or sap elements in it that will make it harder or even prevent friction. General rule of thumb is dead standing dry wood that is sap free.

We have scrub hickory here and it is some VERY hard stuff. The nut meat is edible and good though. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on August 19, 2012, 09:09:41 AM
Thanks man! I wasn't gonna let it beat me so I figured my arms were gonna look like Popeyes'
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 19, 2012, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: SwampHanger
Thanks man! I wasn't gonna let it beat me so I figured my arms were gonna look like Popeyes'

Not saying you can't get a coal with hickory, just if its your first time then you will more than likely wear yourself out on that hard wood. Typically softer wood is better.

Wood density does make a difference. Even when using the same wood. Stages of decomposition change the wood density always in the direction of softening the wood.

Get some medium or softwood that's dry and sap free so it doesn't wear you out. Try Willow and Yucca if possible. Maple is alright but it tends to be a little on the hard side of medium. Stay away from very resinous or sappy wood like Pine for now until later when you can pick out or distinguish "seasoned" wood that is dry and sap free (even then its hit or miss with Pine). That is the best advice I can give right now. Stay with it and you will get it. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 19, 2012, 06:57:56 PM
Yesterday it rained most of the day. Today I figured I'd see how possible a friction fire would be (for the experience). I tried both bow drill & hand drill using only freshly found all natural materials. No success with the bow drill (using Palmetto bowstring). The wood was too damp no matter what I tried (various attempts with Sabal Palm & Pine). Surprisingly, I was successful with the hand drill. Kind of a shock really. Anyway, here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gtWUnrd14
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 19, 2012, 07:42:58 PM
Great job, Pat and Jeff. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Spun up a coal today using the Heartleaf Sida on itself. The same stalk I cut Thursday and took to the county office. I painted the ends of the stalk with some fingernail polish (although pine resin/sap would also work) I use for fly tying to keep it from checking. It does have a tendency to split pretty bad as it dries. It dries out pretty quick. Maybe during one full day. Two at the most.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 21, 2012, 08:51:20 AM
Tried to spin up a coal yesterday using dead grapevine (root) board and dog fennel spindle. I have done this in the past. But it is a royal pain. The grapevine is really soft and the spindle end tends to want to wander really bad kind of like if your board is a little on the punky side. The wood being really soft is weak. So the burn hole will expand in the direction of spindle angle to one side of the board causing the spindle to pop out usually on the weak side where the notch is. Anyway it will work if everything goes right. A wide grapevine and as freshly dead and dry as possible is the best bet so it will be stronger on the notch side. It is really critical that the spindle be kept straight also. Since the wood is so soft not much pressure need be applied.

I managed to get a slight cut on the left forefinger as I got angry with the spindle continuously breaking the board and popping out of the board I was using. I usually don't loose my cool but this particular combo can be a big time pain. I am very careful with my knife but anger makes me more determined but also causes me to be less mindful. If you get upset, stop and cool down (both anger and body) before going back at it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: madmax on August 21, 2012, 10:45:55 AM
WOW Jeff.  Great work.  RBM, never even thought of trying grapevine root.  Very interesting.  I'm so impressed with you guys grinding coals here in FL right now in between thundershowers. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 21, 2012, 04:33:06 PM
Excellent efforts, RBM. I haven't had any luck with one of the Heartleaf Sida samples you found for me as a hand drill. When I was pulling off the stems I accidentally ripped off parts of the stalk so there's gouges on the sides of the spindle. Brutal on the hands. I'll have to convert it to a bow drill spindle and try again. I haven't tried the other samples yet. I've been on a 'on-the-spot' kick lately. I'll have to keep my eye out for some dead grapevine to try.

Oh yes. Friction fire-making is a true test of patience for sure, ha ha.

(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad307/B52gundog/Incredible_hulk.jpg)

Thanks madmax, Guess what? It's raining, again. 50% chance every day lately and expected to be for the next week or so as well. Gotta take advantage of this potential dirt-time, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 21, 2012, 09:44:59 PM
Quote from: LetsRock
Guess what? It's raining, again. 50% chance every day lately and expected to be for the next week or so as well.

Same here. I did collect some Horseweed during meal-time today. I was surprised that I found a dry woody stalk. Most of them are still green. So I got a firebow spindle and a small hand drill spindle (thinking about a thumb cord for it) from the one stalk. The Horseweed works on a lot of different softwoods. Horseweed smoke doesn't smell very good though.

Yeah, I'm just burning up way to much energy on the Horseweed hand drill even with the thumb cord assist. Every time I attempt the hand drill it has a way of quickly reminding me that the efficiency of the firebow is better at conserving energy.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 22, 2012, 01:58:59 PM
The bow drill (firebow) can be better at conserving energy because of its mechanical advantage. It also has more room for error (more flexible). Meaning, one can get success with a wider variety of materials, poor set preparation, poor technique, and in more possible attempts. With the hand drill, one can learn the nuances of friction fire-making because it has less room for error. Meaning, it needs more ideal materials (less variety), good set prep, good technique, and in fewer possible attempts (blisters on the hands). This can make one a better and more efficient friction fire-maker using either method.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on August 22, 2012, 02:56:00 PM
Thanks for sharing your experiences guys! I'm gonna get this but I must say I thought it would be easy.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 22, 2012, 09:32:05 PM
Quote from: SwampHanger
I'm gonna get this but I must say I thought it would be easy.

It may get better but it is never easy. A lot of folks think its easy.......until they do it. There are those that also do it once and get lucky then say its easy but they don't practice it so they are consistent with it so when it comes to crunch time and they need it, they may be in for a rude awakening. Even being consistent through practice still does not make it a sure thing but it sure does help make it better by increasing the odds for success through experience.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 22, 2012, 09:42:23 PM
It is likely that I am gonna "tick off" some folks... But that is not my intention.
:D


I would invite anyone to look at the last 20-30 posts in this thread.


The info being passed is great! :)


Part of it deals with a particular part of the country.
;)


Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??


Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
;)


But... No "new" folks showing their stuff...
:(


I appreciate everything I read here, in this topic, & in this forum...
:D


It'd sure be "Right Nice", to see some folks posting up their attempts for FF. Be it a fail or a success...
;)


Friction Fire has been getting done for thousands of years, in a lot of places, with a lot of different methods & means....


It'd be nice to see some other folks show what they are doin & what they use.
;)


Ya'll don't mind me sayin',what I am thinkin',  do ya?
:D





Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 22, 2012, 09:50:08 PM
It is likely that I am gonna "tick off" some folks... But that is not my intention.
:D


I would invite anyone to look at the last 20-30 posts in this thread.


The info being passed is great! :)


Part of it deals with a particular part of the country.
;)


Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??


Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
;)


But... No "new" folks showing their stuff...
:(


I appreciate everything I read here, in this topic, & in this forum...
:D


It'd sure be "Right Nice", to see some folks posting up their attempts for FF. Be it a fail or a success...
;)


Friction Fire has been getting done for thousands of years, in a lot of places, with a lot of different methods & means....


It'd be nice to see some other folks show what they are doin & what they use.
;)


Ya'll don't mind me sayin',what I am thinkin',  do ya?
:D

I reckon I'll get around to figuring it out one of these days.....

:P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 22, 2012, 10:00:38 PM
I'll be watchin & waitin..
;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 23, 2012, 02:16:04 AM
Ok bro, you have asked a lot about this that and the other thing, but what I want to address is all this cordage. I don't care if you are Mykel Hawke using a shoelace or some Southern Rebel (:P) that needs to use a yucca plant to make cordage out of, lets get back on track, that friction is a world wide method, and this topic has swayed from it's original content, that being "friction"

Now, as a noob, never having produced a fire from friction, start to finish, I am losing some information in the "FFF" here.

Seems to me, the focus needs to be on the mechanics of friction as opposed to the cordage indigenous to the area you are in. That is what I see lately, cordage talk to dominate the discussion. After all, friction fire CAN be made, for example, with hand drills. fire plough, etc without cordage, right?....

And for what it is worth, is not friction also steel against flint? Velocity in this instance, will produce a spark, correct?I could shear a small segment of that rock at a slower pace, and produce nothing close to a spark. ;)

Just saying, friction had many avenues, and it seems this thread has gotten localized on an area of discussion as opposed to a skill. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 23, 2012, 02:45:01 AM
Flint and steel produces sparks by pyrophoricity. The flint cuts tiny pieces off the steel that are small enough to ignite by reacting with oxygen in the air.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 23, 2012, 08:17:22 AM
Flint and steel produces sparks by pyrophoricity. The flint cuts tiny pieces off the steel that are small enough to ignite by reacting with oxygen in the air.

I'll buy that. I guess as a northerner, I am losing a lot of aspects to this thread because the focus seems to be in a couple areas of the USA. NOT saying that is a bad thing, I am just going to have to dive a lot further back to find what is useful to my neck of the woods. :)

I don't really know how to convey what I am saying in actual words, but it seems the conversation in here is between two people. That isn't the case but as a guy who has no clue how to do this, and who is having an open mind to the while thread to learn, it sounds like a couple of people talking in a subway station amongst themselves if that makes a lick of sense.

I will dive in further and try to extrapolate what I can. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 23, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pyrophoricity (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pyrophoricity)


 If ya like, you can click on the link, but there are two meanings for "pyrophoricity". One is spontaneous ignition & the other is by friction. There are 2 sets of definitions on that page & both collaborate each other & use the striking or scraping to make sparks as part of the definitions provided


The colliding & friction between the stone & the steel creates the hot spark(s). That collision is "friction", regardless of how long it lasts. There is no "spontaneous" ignition with the F&S.
 :)
I won't go into the definitions of "friction", or " spontaneous", but they are there to look at also, if someone desired to seek them out, to verify their meanings.


Just wanted to clear that up a bit... or maybe try to do so.. not sure if I helped.. LOL
 :)


Anyway, anyone gonna show us some more fire by friction?


I may have to go get those set-ups I saved back out, since my hand is getting better. Do this all over again, maybe.. Might show a few other methods, like the double hole, or the split stick. Unless someone else wants to do it. I am all for letting someone else with a better camera/vidcam fire something up, pun intended. Mine are POS.
 :D








 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 23, 2012, 09:09:15 AM
If that definition is incorrect in saying the ignition is spontaneous, then the rest of the definition can't be trusted to be correct either.

I like to go with Webster dictionary definition. I've been using a Webster dictionary since before the internet.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric)

1
: igniting spontaneously
2
: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel  (http://1
: igniting spontaneously
2
: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel)

No mention of spontaneous there. Or friction, for that matter.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: knifeguy on August 23, 2012, 09:26:39 AM
I'm working on this FF thing. When I can. I'm using an ironwood spindle, an oak socket (looks like red oak) and tried various hearth board woods in varying conditions of decay and moisture saturation.

So far I've gotten better results out of tulip poplar as a hearth. I've found that a blunt point on my ,roughly 0.70" diameter, spindle works better. Hope that helps someone.

knifeguy
Expert Hilljack :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 23, 2012, 09:32:34 AM
If that definition is incorrect in saying the ignition is spontaneous, then the rest of the definition can't be trusted to be correct either.

I like to go with Webster dictionary definition. I've been using a Webster dictionary since before the internet.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric)

1
: igniting spontaneously
2
: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel  (http://1<br />: igniting spontaneously<br />2<br />: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel)

No mention of spontaneous there. Or friction, for that matter.


Scratched or struck is friction, as far as I am concerned. The way I understood both the links' definitions of the word; they are using a Chemical (spontaneous), & the General Physics (scratching/striking) means of defining the word.


No need to go further with this type of discussion, P.W., as far as I am concerned. We have different points of view it seems on defining "pyrophoric" & "friction". I am all for sticking to the way you started this topic & going in that direction, rather than getting stuck in any semantics. ( < I think that is the correct word), or sidetracks...
 :D
-------------------------------------------------


Knife guy,




Great to hear that ya are having a go at it!
 :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on August 23, 2012, 10:01:01 AM
Agreed that we are getting caught up in semantics here, and straying from the point.
Connotations can differ slightly from definitions.
In my mind, when you rub two things together you get friction. The molecules are excited and heat is generated. When the heat of the friction reaches the kindling temperature of one of the two objects being rubbed together, it ignites.
You have friction when you rub flint against steel (e.g., the spark wheel on a cigarette lighter). But neither the flint, nor the steel wheel ignite. It's the tiny bits of material that flake off which ignite, as PW described.
The connotation of "friction fire" has always been rubbing two pieces of wood together until enough heat is generated to ignite the wood. It would probably better serve the discussion to go with this generally accepted concept, than pull out the dictionaries.....
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 23, 2012, 10:04:45 AM
I agree, OP.

I don't think anyone really puts flint and steel into a friction fire category. Apples and oranges, IMO.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 23, 2012, 11:13:07 AM
Yeah, my take is friction fire typically has something to do with rubbing two sticks together in some way.

We're all kinda stuck with working with materials found in our local environments. Store bought Cedar tends to be the most recommended way to learn the bow drill because it can be found in a nearby home improvement store no matter what part of the continent you live in. A 1" by 8' piece of Cedar is like $4 (USD) at Home Depot or Lowes. Excellent wood to learn with and get a good understanding of the fundamentals of friction fire-making. That is, unless you've got someone proficient teaching you directly or mails you a proven set that's ideal for beginners. Once you've got a few successes under your belt then go out and experiment with the different woods commonly found in your area.

The best advice is be willing to try. Expect to fail. Each failure becomes experience and leads to better understanding. Practice when no one's looking so you won't feel embarrassed. There's a ton of YouTube videos and tutorials out there to reference if you're having trouble (or ask questions here).

Video tape yourself, watch then delete. I use an old basic point & shoot camera (Canon). Watch the footage to see what you're doing wrong (or not doing) from a 3rd person point-of-view and compare it to some YouTube videos. Delete and repeat until you get success and you're proud to show people your video. I just use Windows Live Movie Maker (free) for basic video-editing and upload it to YouTube.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on August 23, 2012, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: MnSportsman
Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??


Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.

That's great. I am all for it. Why don't we start with you? What have you done lately?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 23, 2012, 11:54:01 AM
Ive got a couple of failure vids i might be able to scrounge up. I was out poking around a few weeks back at a campsite and collected some more seasoned juniper and made a bowdrill set. But my leather cord snapped twice while burning in so i didnt get to go for an ember.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 23, 2012, 11:55:02 AM
Quote from: MnSportsman
Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??


Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.

That's great. I am all for it. Why don't we start with you? What have you done lately?

Besides take 3 hours of his life last night to educate me on trees, woods, why certain grains work better, principles, different ways and styles,  design etc over the phone you mean?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on August 23, 2012, 04:28:10 PM
I'll grease the wheel....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS5PUKIhIjA

You really need to watch this one to understand the fellowship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju4M96UvUi4

Creek :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 23, 2012, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: MnSportsman
Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??


Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.

That's great. I am all for it. Why don't we start with you? What have you done lately?


What I have always done....
Just what I feel like.


Up until lately, I was minding my own business.. I should likely return to that too.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on August 23, 2012, 05:58:41 PM
Good effort, upthecreek! I've had many of those ill-fated moments too. Although, those moments can help you get good with recovery experience. We understand this aspect of fellowship, that's for sure.  ;D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on August 23, 2012, 06:19:40 PM
I just knew I had it......
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on August 24, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
Thanks for the vid upthecreek!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on August 30, 2012, 06:59:28 PM
So I have a 3 day weekend coming up. I think I will go over to hone depot for some cedar and try this. Yeah it's skimping but so what :P I have plenty of time to do this too. Sunday I gotta get the 75 gallon full set up aquarium I bought off my buddy but that's it.

More to come...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Red on August 30, 2012, 07:14:08 PM
I share your frustration creek.. the past 3 nights ive not been able to even get an ember with a proven set. the humidity is killing it before it starts :(
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on September 01, 2012, 03:56:04 PM
Ok, if I could keep the bow string from slipping on the spindle, I would be in good shape. I think I need to make a few revolutions around the spindle and just hold the loose end instead of relying on knots at both ends to not stretch slightly with only one wrap around the spindle.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on September 01, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
Ok, if I could keep the bow string from slipping on the spindle, I would be in good shape. I think I need to make a few revolutions around the spindle and just hold the loose end instead of relying on knots at both ends to not stretch slightly with only one wrap around the spindle.
I believe what you're describing is pretty close to an Egyptian bow drill, but the string is still tied to both ends of the bow.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aF60gIgZDwo/SKcGykwhfgI/AAAAAAAAAJY/Svs_fxvDaXM/s320/egyptian1.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on September 01, 2012, 04:33:36 PM
Ok, if I could keep the bow string from slipping on the spindle, I would be in good shape. I think I need to make a few revolutions around the spindle and just hold the loose end instead of relying on knots at both ends to not stretch slightly with only one wrap around the spindle.
I believe what you're describing is pretty close to an Egyptian bow drill, but the string is still tied to both ends of the bow.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aF60gIgZDwo/SKcGykwhfgI/AAAAAAAAAJY/Svs_fxvDaXM/s320/egyptian1.jpg)

Well I am thinking paracord is a bad idea anyways. I may have to find something else with a little more bite.

Wonder how a leather deer lace would work....
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on September 01, 2012, 05:44:59 PM
I recommend using paracord. It's the most ideal as a bow drill bowstring. Using paracord, you shouldn't need to wrap it around the spindle more than once (You can if you want, though). It should have enough bite with one wrap. I recommend tying it to both ends of the bow. Paracord is plenty strong enough. It won't break (at least after many attempts).

The bowstring slippage is probably due to the bow not being sturdy or stout enough. If it's flimsy then you'll get slippage (the bow flexes too much). If you have a lot of friction under the bearing-block (hand-hold), that can also contribute to bowstring slippage (Use barsoap as a lubricant in the bearing-block divot).

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: TwinBlade on September 01, 2012, 07:49:24 PM
I recommend using paracord. It's the most ideal as a bow drill bowstring. Using paracord, you shouldn't need to wrap it around the spindle more than once (You can if you want, though). It should have enough bite with one wrap. I recommend tying it to both ends of the bow. Paracord is plenty strong enough. It won't break (at least after many attempts).

The bowstring slippage is probably due to the bow not being sturdy or stout enough. If it's flimsy then you'll get slippage (the bow flexes too much). If you have a lot of friction under the bearing-block (hand-hold), that can also contribute to bowstring slippage (Use barsoap as a lubricant in the bearing-block divot).

Good Luck!

Its stout enough and I used a block of nylon from work for my bearing bloc. The divot is perfect thanks to a 2 flute 3/8" ball nose endmill. Not too bushcrafty but oh well :rofl:

That bow is like 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" in diameter.I can put enough pressure to get it to smoke, but any more and the paracord slips. Maybe my knots are slipping a bit. I know it is hell trying to get that spindle wrapped once in it so it is tight at the start....

Yeah the spindle is upside down too. I wasn't paying attention to technical details LOL!!

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/HKHolyDiver/IMAG3520.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/HKHolyDiver/IMAG3519.jpg)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on September 01, 2012, 08:27:05 PM
Everything you have looks do-able. My first guess is, did you do a "burn-in" before cutting the notch in the fireboard? You wanna make sure you've got good smooth bowing action before cutting the notch (Mate the spindle to the fireboard). If you cut the notch before the burn-in that can cause the spindle to bind, which in-turn can cause the bowstring slippage or spindle flip-outs.

If the bowstring knots are coming loose, it should be noticeable enough to see. Resecure and try again. If you're getting good smooth bowing action and still getting slippage then ease up on the downward pressure or pinch the bowstring with your thumb and fingers (bowing hand) to apply more tension on the bowstring. Or, try wrapping the bowstring a few times around the spindle (Egyptian method) to get better grip. Single or multiple wraps should work either way with paracord.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on September 01, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
Cutting facets in the middle of the spindle so it is unround help the cord to grip better. Tight cord grip.

The Egyptian method uses either the cord through a hole in the spindle or a knot midway on the spindle and this prevents cord slippage. Slippage can still occur with multiple wraps of the cord (if cord is not tight) without the cord at a fixed point on the spindle. Tightness of the cord is not as much of a concern with the Egyptian method as the tension method because of the fixed point of the cord on the spindle. The cord does not wear as badly when at a fixed point on the spindle either. Multiple wraps is still the Egyptian method even without the fixed point on the spindle but the reason for the fixed point is preventing slippage on the spindle and reducing cord wear.

http://www.primitiveways.com/e-fire.html
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on September 01, 2012, 10:43:24 PM
One thing you can try if you have a serrated knife is to drag the serrations along the side of the spindle to scrape longitudinal grooves in it. I had some slipping when using the traditional method and this made the spindle grippy enough. I also used poly core cotton clothes line as a cord. You could also try moistening the sides of the spindle making sure not to get any on the ends. Depending on the wood this might make it grip better similar to moistening your fingers before turning a page.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 07:40:23 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/22C47DF9-4FD6-4A12-90AE-E460E1E48887-2922-000005D47E8293E6.jpg)

A month ago I stumbled across this site and wondered if I too can start a friction fire. Sunday I sharpened my axe and got busy. I didn't want to buy materials, just things around the yard.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 07:43:53 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/45F4DC1C-C62C-45C0-AB13-EFFF40ACDFF8-2922-000005D48AABADF4.jpg)
So I chunked off a slice and cleaned up the sides.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 07:46:46 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9DA67A6A-3752-473D-84B0-4712F0E8A263-2922-000005D49D90AA83.jpg)

I was really surprised how much finish work I could do with a sharp axe. I smoothed out my hearth quite well.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 07:49:43 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/D807CAD6-BAA2-4312-BDF9-D3DC5260C8D3-2922-000005D4A219F672.jpg)
Chose the straightest stick I could find.(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/7637C39D-84E1-444E-9A8D-B37F9A15AD75-2922-000005D4AAFD23A6.jpg)
Cleaned up nicely.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 07:58:32 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/44651D18-D9F6-4D0F-8067-D3CF981D0973-2922-000005D4AFABFEB1.jpg)
I whittled on my spindle for hours trying to straighten it and I started to wonder if my wood was too hard. I cut down two Japanese Maples and had no idea if this wood would be suitable.

Oh, and that's Spaz in the background. One of three Weim's I have.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 08:01:15 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/C5162DFA-31F6-46F2-9A8F-08FE83C87F51-2922-000005D4B97CC91A.jpg)

Got my divot started...
Got my spindle as straight as I could...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 08:26:32 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/7898FA7A-A04F-455C-A803-9490665302B2-2922-000005D4D26CA771.jpg)
Got my initial burn...(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4)
Getting smoke but still having a hard time keeping it all together.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 08:28:21 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4)
This is a little video.
Having a hard time posting it.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
Oh no.
Can anyone tutor me on posting a video from photobucket?
It's going to be hard for me to continue without the aid of video.
I'm using an iPhone.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 08:43:49 PM
I was so jazzed only to be let down by this.

I have an early wake up for work so this will have to wait. Tomarrow is another day.

I look forward to posting my video and possibly being welcomed to The Fellowship.

'Night all.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 01, 2012, 08:44:59 PM
Oh no.
Can anyone tutor me on posting a video from photobucket?
It's going to be hard for me to continue without the aid of video.
I'm using an iPhone.
On my Photobucket videos, when I hover over a video icon, the drop down menu includes "IMG code". Clicking on that copies the URL into your buffer. Just get back here to your post and "paste" what was copied from PB.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 01, 2012, 08:46:12 PM
....
I'm using an iPhone.
Now I understand why all your pix were in individual posts, instead of grouped under one post.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 01, 2012, 09:34:39 PM
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4 (http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4)

 .... Didn't work?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 01, 2012, 09:45:32 PM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4)

 .... Didn't work?
Sorry... I know how PB works, but I don't have a clue how to troubleshoot the iPhone compatibility here.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 01, 2012, 10:06:34 PM
I took the liberty of editing your post, 04man.

You used IMG tags with a video url so it wasn't showing up. I changed the tags to URL tags and now it should appear as a link. The easiest way to embed video is to host it on youtube, and use the youtube tags in your post editor window. :)

If you want to hos the videos on photobucket, folks can just follow the link, but you will probably get more views if you host it on youtube. I'll go check out the video and if it is a successful friction fire I'll add you to the group.

EDIT:

Ok, watched the video, lots of smoke, no flames yet. Keep it up and good luck! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 01, 2012, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: 04man
I whittled on my spindle for hours trying to straighten it and I started to wonder if my wood was too hard. I cut down two Japanese Maples and had no idea if this wood would be suitable.

It wasn't stated but the first photo where the board was cut looks to be Oak wood and that is a hardwood. Don't have any idea about Japanese Maple for a spindle. I see black dust and that is a good thing. :) Really can't see what is going on at the working end or the notch from the photos. The video won't run at my end. Don't stop spinning until either there is smoke from the dust pile separate from the spindle or the spindle bottoms out. If you are having a hard time getting a coal find some solid dry and sap free wood that will etch with your fingernail. Good luck. Keep on keeping on. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on October 01, 2012, 10:36:43 PM
Okay, that does it. I'm all motivated up now to try this again!!

KK
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 01, 2012, 10:46:19 PM
Okay, that does it. I'm all motivated up now to try this again!!

KK

Nice to see you get the motivation again. You will get it this time. Just take a look back through the threads, both this one and yours to refresh your memory on all the tips and tricks and give it another go. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 02, 2012, 09:19:40 AM
Petrifiedwood, thanks for making that happen for me. I'm of the age where the electronic stuff is still magic. Working off my iPhone only makes it more difficult. So, do I have to have a YouTube account? And, could you work that magic one more time for me?

RBM, my hearth and spindle are made of Japanese Maple. The bow is of apricot branch and 550 cord.

I had read that it was a good idea to use the same wood for hearth and spindle and that the wood should be soft enough to make an indentation with a finger nail. My finger nails won't make a mark on a booger let alone a piece of wood. Once I learned to keep my bowstring close to the work and to stay focused on that alone smoke came much easier that I anticipated. I cut my notch and got ember second try.

I would like to post the ember video, with a little help from Petrifiedwood.(http://[[IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4)/img]
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 02, 2012, 09:20:46 AM
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 02, 2012, 09:40:45 AM
(http://)http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4

Anyone have a suggestion as to why I couldn't get a flame? I've had less ember while camping and have achieved fire. Maybe too much dog hair mixed with wood shavings? Lol.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 02, 2012, 09:48:04 AM
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4 (http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4)

Anyone have a suggestion as to why I couldn't get a flame? I've had less ember while camping and have achieved fire. Maybe too much dog hair mixed with wood shavings? Lol.
Just a guess, but lift the ember on and into the tinder bundle?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Moe M. on October 02, 2012, 09:55:56 AM

  Yup,  what he said. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on October 02, 2012, 10:24:20 AM
Our friend BigHat needs to be added to our fellowship.  He did this one on a meet up last summer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1HaSUOM8s

Look forward to his safe return from duty.

Creek :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on October 02, 2012, 10:29:12 AM
Way to go BigHat! 

+1 on the safe return!
 ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 02:40:58 PM
Here is my first posted video on youtube showing yucca on seasoned pine with the firebow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOgJlWV1do

Thanks for all the help, Jeff (LetsRock).
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 07, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: rogumpogum on October 07, 2012, 03:03:37 PM
I need to get in on this...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 03:13:18 PM
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.

Slow and steady. Long bow strokes. I don't go fast and wear myself out. The coal will come. As long as the spindle keeps moving, heat and friction build up. I go longer a lot of times than may be necessary and that is because I am watching the dust pile and don't stop until I see smoke coming from it separate from the spindle or until the spindle bottoms out. This way I get very few "false" coals as they are called. Thinking there is a coal and there isn't. I don't like to stop too soon as I have done in the past and then I do end up with false coals. But stopping or not depends on energy reserves also. ;D Seems like I am much less tired by going slow anyway. Sometimes the coal comes sooner or later. Sometimes it takes more than one burn hole on the board.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 07, 2012, 04:07:26 PM
Nicely demonstrated, RBM!

I think you figured things out better on your own than with my help (video-editing challenges), ha ha. I still couldn't get a good file conversion with the things I was trying. Looks like you found the better way.

Nicely done using all natural materials and a shoestring for the bowstring (mentioned in the YouTube description). Especially with a single wrap on the spindle. There's definitely a difference using a shoestring as opposed to paracord for a bowstring. Excellent technique as well. Betcha there was hardly any wear & tear on the shoestring.

It might seem like a long effort, but he's got the right idea for here in humid Florida. Especially lately. I've been practicing and comparing the weather with my efforts and it seems any time the atmospheric pressure is down and the humidity is up it makes it that much more difficult to get an ember. Going longer tends to increase the success rate (steams away humidity/ moisture). Perhaps, the change of seasons might be a factor. The cold front hasn't made its way down to us yet.

In a way, I was glad to see someone else in Florida use Yucca for friction fire-making. It seems everyone (other worldwide YouTubers) rave about how wonderful it is. Yet, the Yucca I've used (found in various parts of Florida) has been more difficult to use than I'm led to believe. It works, but not as quick and effortless as others have suggested (like when someone makes a coal in just a few seconds).
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on October 07, 2012, 04:29:29 PM
I reread this thread and maybe I missed it but isn't sycamore good wood?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 04:45:14 PM
Nicely demonstrated, RBM!

I think you figured things out better on your own than with my help (video-editing challenges), ha ha. I still couldn't get a good file conversion with the things I was trying. Looks like you found the better way.

Nicely done using all natural materials and a shoestring for the bowstring (mentioned in the YouTube description). Especially with a single wrap on the spindle. There's definitely a difference using a shoestring as opposed to paracord for a bowstring. Excellent technique as well. Betcha there was hardly any wear & tear on the shoestring.

It might seem like a long effort, but he's got the right idea for here in humid Florida. Especially lately. I've been practicing and comparing the weather with my efforts and it seems any time the atmospheric pressure is down and the humidity is up it makes it that much more difficult to get an ember. Going longer tends to increase the success rate (steams away humidity/ moisture). Perhaps, the change of seasons might be a factor. The cold front hasn't made its way down to us yet.

In a way, I was glad to see someone else in Florida use Yucca for friction fire-making. It seems everyone (other worldwide YouTubers) rave about how wonderful it is. Yet, the Yucca I've used (found in various parts of Florida) has been more difficult to use than I'm led to believe. It works, but not as quick and effortless as others have suggested (like when someone makes a coal in just a few seconds).

Not much wear and tear on the shoestring. Now if I was using a natural plant fiber cord......its an entirely different matter. Yes with all the humidity and rain here it for sure makes it more difficult and takes longer due to residual dampness in the wood even though it may be as dry as it can be under the wind and sun. Yucca is one of the "quicker to get coal" friction woods since it does have one of the lowest temperature ignition points as opposed to many other friction woods like willow or maple. But factor in the humidity and dampness from rain and that temperature ignition point goes up substantially making it harder than under dry conditions and we have had plenty of humidity and rain lately. Not to mention the seasoned pine. That video was shot on Friday 10-5-2012. I will start to sound like a broken record but the best friction wood I have ever used so far is that of the Mallow family, namely the native wild Heartleaf Sida. That is "the" quickest to get coal friction wood I have used so far. Very few revolutions on the firebow. Must have an even lower ignition temperature than yucca. Not even Horseweed on Grapevine root or Dog Fennel on Grapevine root can beat it and those combos aren't bad if the Grapevine root is hard enough.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
I reread this thread and maybe I missed it but isn't sycamore good wood?

Sycamore has shown up on a lot of friction wood lists and I hear about it all the time. Don't have any here that I know of but give it a shot if you got it. ;D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 07, 2012, 05:00:16 PM
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.

Slow and steady. Long bow strokes. I don't go fast and wear myself out. The coal will come. As long as the spindle keeps moving, heat and friction build up. I go longer a lot of times than may be necessary and that is because I am watching the dust pile and don't stop until I see smoke coming from it separate from the spindle or until the spindle bottoms out. This way I get very few "false" coals as they are called. Thinking there is a coal and there isn't. I don't like to stop too soon as I have done in the past and then I do end up with false coals. But stopping or not depends on energy reserves also. ;D Seems like I am much less tired by going slow anyway. Sometimes the coal comes sooner or later. Sometimes it takes more than one burn hole on the board.

Well it obviously pays off. I think the slower speed has to make the spindle more controllable.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 06:05:47 PM
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.

Slow and steady. Long bow strokes. I don't go fast and wear myself out. The coal will come. As long as the spindle keeps moving, heat and friction build up. I go longer a lot of times than may be necessary and that is because I am watching the dust pile and don't stop until I see smoke coming from it separate from the spindle or until the spindle bottoms out. This way I get very few "false" coals as they are called. Thinking there is a coal and there isn't. I don't like to stop too soon as I have done in the past and then I do end up with false coals. But stopping or not depends on energy reserves also. ;D Seems like I am much less tired by going slow anyway. Sometimes the coal comes sooner or later. Sometimes it takes more than one burn hole on the board.

Well it obviously pays off. I think the slower speed has to make the spindle more controllable.

Hmmmm. That's a tough one, I have to think on that a while. Spindle control to me is more dependent on how good of a socket I have, how well its lubed, and how tight its locked against my leg. Also how straight the spindle is. Control of the spindle begins when the spindle seats or marries itself to the burn hole. But speed........Slowin g the bow speed down and using the full run of the cord is less tiring while heat and friction slowly build up.

I guess it could be looked on as making the spindle more controllable. When actions are slower, they are more deliberate and less prone to error simply because motor skills are not rushed. That's a fancy way of saying you can correct things as you go if you move slower.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 07, 2012, 06:11:11 PM

When actions are slower, they are more deliberate and less prone to error simply because motor skills are not rushed. That's a fancy way of saying you can correct things as you go if you move slower.

That's exactly where I was going with it. More often than not when I have a spindle spring free it's when I'm drilling faster trying to get a coal in a hurry. I have had them spring out when going slower while burning in but that is probably because the divots in the fireboard and bearing block haven't been well formed yet. Like you say, the deliberate slow movements make it easier to correct bad form before it causes the spindle to fling away.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 07, 2012, 06:20:03 PM

When actions are slower, they are more deliberate and less prone to error simply because motor skills are not rushed. That's a fancy way of saying you can correct things as you go if you move slower.

That's exactly where I was going with it. More often than not when I have a spindle spring free it's when I'm drilling faster trying to get a coal in a hurry. I have had them spring out when going slower while burning in but that is probably because the divots in the fireboard and bearing block haven't been well formed yet. Like you say, the deliberate slow movements make it easier to correct bad form before it causes the spindle to fling away.

I agree. When it comes to fire, rushing things (parts , technique, and the process) is a sure recipe for failure. The odds are already stacked against success but rushing will make it worse.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 11, 2012, 08:06:03 PM
Here is a new one that shows Cattail spindle on Yucca board with a Yucca leaf cord. Egyptian method was used. Pine needle tinder bundle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_0jidAqek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 11, 2012, 08:35:26 PM
Nicely done. Looks like the cord held up pretty good!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 11, 2012, 08:41:15 PM
Nicely done. Looks like the cord held up pretty good!

Thanks. I would not even attempt to use the tension method on a spindle as fragile as a Cattail stalk even after it has dried hard. Yep the single 2-ply Yucca cord held up good.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 11, 2012, 08:50:42 PM
We have some cattails around here in places. I might have to give one a try. How would you say their relative strength or fragility compares to a mullein stalk of the same length?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 11, 2012, 09:38:22 PM
We have some cattails around here in places. I might have to give one a try. How would you say their relative strength or fragility compares to a mullein stalk of the same length?

Since we don't have mullein here that I know of I can't say but I am sure that cattail is the "most" fragile of stalks that I have used. Use it when its dried hard and then baby it (Don't use much pressure if any to the spindle on the board. Let the spinning do the job. Don't force the spindle either.). Another note of importance when using cattail stalk. Results will be much better if the tip or working end outer layer is shaved thin about the first inch or two that will be used on the board. The outer layer tends to be a bit harder that can cause problems on a Yucca board. Different wear areas on the board that you don't want or it may drill down and bottom out before enough friction builds up. Hope this helps when you get ready to use it. Might save some frustration.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 11, 2012, 09:45:44 PM
Thanks. I'll need to find a local replacement for yucca for a fireboard. :D 

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 11, 2012, 09:56:20 PM
No Yucca in Utah? Sotol, Spiny Yucca, etc.?

USDA says you got it.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=YUCCA

http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Utah&statefips=49&symbol=YUCCA
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 11, 2012, 10:27:08 PM
No Yucca in Utah? Sotol, Spiny Yucca, etc.?

USDA says you got it.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=YUCCA

http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Utah&statefips=49&symbol=YUCCA

We've got it, just not in my part of the state. I have seen some in the Moab area. I live at about 6500 feet in a pinyon juniper woodland.

We do get some small opuntia cacti though and I have thought of drying a couple of pads out to see how they might work as fire boards.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 12, 2012, 06:08:07 AM
No Yucca in Utah? Sotol, Spiny Yucca, etc.?

USDA says you got it.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=YUCCA

http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Utah&statefips=49&symbol=YUCCA

We've got it, just not in my part of the state. I have seen some in the Moab area. I live at about 6500 feet in a pinyon juniper woodland.

We do get some small opuntia cacti though and I have thought of drying a couple of pads out to see how they might work as fire boards.

Yeah, give the dried cactus pads a try. Let us know how that works for you. ;D That's a good idea. If that works for you I may dry out some prickly pear cactus pads here and give that try. After I burn or scrape off the spines that is.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 13, 2012, 03:20:01 PM
Wow RBM, Cattail seems kinda delicate for bow drill. You must have been extra careful to make it work. Not sure I coulda pulled it off for bow drill. I was however able to make a hand drill fire using Cattail on Yellow Pine.

I also wanted to start noting weather conditions when going for coals to see how it affects friction fire success (trend analysis). Overall, I think this was a pretty good day (easy day) to make a friction fire. Although, the hand drill set was stored indoors (protected from the elements).

Current weather for this day (Sat 13 Oct 2012) in the Tampa Bay area, Florida (as per Accuweather.com):
Around 2:15pm: EDT
Temperature: 83F (28C)
Humidity: 54%
Dew Point: 65F (18C)
Atmospheric Pressure: 30.16" (1021 mb)
Winds: 14mph (22kmh)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5lv_KVemoM
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 13, 2012, 07:03:50 PM
Quote from: LetsRock
Wow RBM, Cattail seems kinda delicate for bow drill. You must have been extra careful to make it work. Not sure I coulda pulled it off for bow drill.

Sure you can. Its not so bad. I have seen some mini firebow sets so small that have to be seen to believe. Good one on the hand drill. ;D

Just did this one yesterday. The coal came a lot faster. Sorry for the noise of the roofers and for the way youtube messed with the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiD0CZrD32Q
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 14, 2012, 05:41:11 AM
I guess I'll have to give Cattail a try as a bow drill. Just seems so fragile in comparison to other weed stalks I use. Nevertheless, between the two of us we're showing that Cattail's a great friction fire option.

Another excellent vid, RBM. I haven't tried Horseweed or Grapevine as friction fire materials yet. I see Grapevine all over so I'll have to give it a try next chance I get.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 14, 2012, 01:00:06 PM
I guess I'll have to give Cattail a try as a bow drill. Just seems so fragile in comparison to other weed stalks I use. Nevertheless, between the two of us we're showing that Cattail's a great friction fire option.

Another excellent vid, RBM. I haven't tried Horseweed or Grapevine as friction fire materials yet. I see Grapevine all over so I'll have to give it a try next chance I get.

If you do use Grapevine, you will want the Grapevine to be dried hard. If its soft then you will have major problems with keeping a spindle on it. I suspect a lot of different spindles could be used on Grapevine. Nice aroma too. ;D Unlike stinky Horseweed.

This last one I just put up shows Willow on Willow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSomsHo8Htk
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 14, 2012, 01:15:15 PM
Anyone ever use anything as off-the-wall as Grape Poppy for a spindle? I just cut some down, and noticed it's straight as an arrow shaft, and harder than either cattail, or mullien.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 14, 2012, 01:33:10 PM
Anyone ever use anything as off-the-wall as Grape Poppy for a spindle? I just cut some down, and noticed it's straight as an arrow shaft, and harder than either cattail, or mullien.

Nope. But put it on a softwood board and let us know how it works for you.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on October 14, 2012, 01:37:22 PM
I have to get to making fire again.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on October 14, 2012, 04:07:54 PM
I have to get to making fire again.
Tell me about it, Creek!  I can't even read this thread anymore for guilt of not getting it done... 

My kit is crying out for me...

You know, gonna go try it RIGHT NOW! 

Thanks for the motivation!


KK
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 14, 2012, 05:56:13 PM
Perhaps you need a little Rocky motivation. Gonna Fly Now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG2onzLFjpI
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 14, 2012, 06:03:33 PM
Friction fire bow drill using freshly found Pignut Hickory.
Man-made items used: A Swiss Army Knife & paracord

Fireboard: Pignut Hickory
Spindle: Pignut Hickory
Bearing-block: Half of a Hickory nut
Bearing-block Lubricant: Grapevine leaves
Bow: Laurel Oak
Bowstring: Paracord (550 cord)
Coal Catcher/ Ember Pan: An Oak leaf
Tinder Bundle: Palmetto Hair (ie. Monkey Fur)

Current weather conditions:
Location: Tampa Bay area, Florida
Date: Sun 14 Oct 2012, 3:30pm EDT
Temperature: 88F (31C)
Humidity: 54%
Dew Point: 68F (20C)
Atmospheric Pressure: 30.00" (1016 mb)
Elevation: 60ft Above Sea Level (not far from the beach)
Wind: 0mph (0kph)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcNLU8QVBm4
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 14, 2012, 06:18:26 PM
Wow. Pignut Hickory. We have Scrub Hickory as you may recall seeing it (I pointed it out) when you were over here. "Any" hickory would be unthinkable to me its so hard. A harder hardwood than oak probably. I bet you "had" to use para cord for that. ;D Maybe the hickory was degraded so that the density was turning softer and making it more usable?

BTW, beginners should stay away from hickory or any hardwood as a friction wood. Same goes for resinous or sappy pine. It would just cause sheer frustration.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on October 14, 2012, 06:24:02 PM
wow is right.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 14, 2012, 06:28:28 PM
Hey Jeff, instead of using that hickory for a friction set, make an archery bow out of it. ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 14, 2012, 07:01:03 PM
Well, those branches broke off the Hickory tree real easy. A little girl could have broken those branches off with ease, ha ha (as you can see in the vid). I guess the idea here is to not automatically discount seemingly difficult options without verifying for yourself first, ha ha. State of decay! State of decay....

In this case, an archery bow is not so likely, but I'd at least have several weeks to figure something out, after I get tired of insects and vegetation, ha ha.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on October 14, 2012, 09:20:33 PM
Well, that was an hour and a half of my life I won't get back...

Twice I had the black dust smoking, and twice it went out.  And those two times represent a lot of other failed attempts... 

Frustrating!

Oh well... Live to fight another day I guess.

KK
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 14, 2012, 09:29:33 PM
Well, that was an hour and a half of my life I won't get back...

Twice I had the black dust smoking, and twice it went out.  And those two times represent a lot of other failed attempts... 

Frustrating!

Oh well... Live to fight another day I guess.

KK

KK, did you fan the smoking dust a little to expand the coal to the surrounding dust? The coal might get bigger if you do feed a little air to it. Once the coal is a little bigger it can then be transferred to the tinder. Keep at it. You will get it. :)

BTW, I agree with Les on this that if I was in a situation where I really need fire and I was doing this (not practicing), I would get rid of the coal catch. I would put my board directly on the tinder so the coal is already in the tinder eliminating the need to transfer. The transfer step can be a liability. Knock the coal, drop it, wind blows it away, and so on.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on October 14, 2012, 09:53:51 PM
Well, that was an hour and a half of my life I won't get back...

Twice I had the black dust smoking, and twice it went out.  And those two times represent a lot of other failed attempts... 

Frustrating!

Oh well... Live to fight another day I guess.

KK

KK, did you fan the smoking dust a little to expand the coal to the surrounding dust? The coal might get bigger if you do feed a little air to it. Once the coal is a little bigger it can then be transferred to the tinder. Keep at it. You will get it. :)

BTW, I agree with Les on this that if I was in a situation where I really need fire and I was doing this (not practicing), I would get rid of the coal catch. I would put my board directly on the tinder so the coal is already in the tinder eliminating the need to transfer. The transfer step can be a liability. Knock the coal, drop it, wind blows it away, and so on.
No glowing ember. Just a pile of smoking black dust. I don't think I quite went long enough. Eventually, I just got pooped and ticked off and called it an evening.

I'll get it. I'm just sneaking up on it... :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on October 21, 2012, 08:33:38 PM
Friction fire bow drill using all natural materials (found on-the-spot).

The video's a bit long, but includes overcoming problems. I could have easily edited it to make it look like I did it perfectly in 2 minutes or so, ha ha, but opted to show pretty much how it happened instead.

I originally thought to use only Yellow Pine for everything, but it didn't work out that way. Ended up using Sabal Palm for the spindle. Which is OK, it's about as abundant as the Pine in this wooded area I was in; Was just trying to keep it simple.

I used Yellow Pine for the fireboard, bearing-block, bow, and even the punk wood. Pine bark was the platform to catch the coal/ ember. The spindle was Sabal Palm (aka Cabbage Palm). The natural cordage bowstring and tinder bundle fibers (Palmetto Hair/ Monkey Fur) are from Saw Palmetto.

Overall, it took me about 2.5 hours from foraging to flame (at a leisure pace).

Weather conditions were:
Tampa Bay area, Florida
Sun 21 Oct 2012 between about 1:40pm to 4:10pm
Temp: 79F (26C)
Humidity: 40%
Pressure: 30.03in (101.69kPa or 1016.93mb)
Dew Point: 52F (11C)
Wind: 7mph (11kph)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNKvcAjKPhg
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 22, 2012, 05:08:43 PM
For approval here is my first video of two.

Wish it was as nice as all of yours but I'm limited to a phone and my friend called which automatically stops the recording.(http://)http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/4BBE1D65-414A-4ABD-ABC4-C35A91D80C4C-4825-00000A0DB5294192.mp4
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 22, 2012, 05:11:28 PM
I'm glad that worked out!

Here's the second part after the call.(http://)http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/E023F6AF-40E7-4F9F-82D8-F9DD41656EF7-4825-00000A0DE3C9F200.mp4
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 22, 2012, 05:23:17 PM
I really thought the coal was going to smolder out the bottom.

I threw down the challenge to some friends and so far only one ( the guy that called and screwed up my video) almost made fire. I think that this method is impressive as hell and my challenge to myself is to try natural vegetation though I live in a very arid area. The cattail spindle I think I'll give a try.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 22, 2012, 05:39:03 PM
Well done! Is that a weimaraner in the background? :D

I'll get you added to the FFF shortly.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 22, 2012, 05:41:56 PM
Nice video LetsRock. There is certainly a good bit to take away from the problem solving. You guys are tenacious!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 22, 2012, 05:58:31 PM
Woohoo! Yeah!
I'm gonna have a beer to celebrate.

Yes, I have three Weim's.  Usually they move about with such energy it's hard to pick them apart. The two in the background I successfully tired out( and they're getting older). It's part of my weight loss strategy.

WooHoo! Where's that beer?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 22, 2012, 06:15:47 PM
Just watched your video LetsRock.  Well done!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on October 22, 2012, 10:44:36 PM
If that was your first coal, 04man, then do yourself a favor and save your spindle and fireboard as a keepsake. :) My first coal was Willow on Willow and I still have my spindle and board. My video speed has problems right now that I hope to have fixed soon so I have not seen Jeff's new one yet. But I was able to see 04man's video. For some reason that one loaded and played better maybe since it was in Photobucket. Just guessing. Good job, 04man. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on October 23, 2012, 08:58:51 AM
Yes Sir,
Keeping the whole kit just as it is.
And to add to my wife's amusement I was thinking about displaying it with my rattler that I ate last night.(http://)http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/E8741CEB-4332-4E8B-A24D-582F50848585-4825-00000A0F6C6C078D.jpg
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 01, 2012, 06:16:32 PM
I had been trying to do a video clip using just Yellow Pine and Saw Palmetto for a firebow set. I have made fire before using just those two sources. I have had two problems getting it done. This time of year the fibers on the Saw Palmetto and also on Yucca are a bit more brittle than during Spring/Summer but are still usable year round. I had been trying to use a single 2-ply Palmetto stem skin cord using the standard tension method. Unfortunately seasoned Yellow Pine does not quite have a low enough ignition temperature for that. Almost but not quite. I have used the tension method successfully before with this. But at this time of year this means I had several broken cords while doing this. The Egyptian method was the only way I was going to get this done this time around at this time of year.

The purpose of this video clip was to show that it is possible to get fire with just Yellow Pine and Saw Palmetto only. The particulars of the materials of those two sources are under the video description.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibKMHfFq_-M
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on November 03, 2012, 09:05:11 AM
Nicely done, RBM. With all natural materials too. All ya need is a cutting tool, some materials to work with, and you're good to go.

I think everyone's out practicing up so they can also be a part of the Friction Fire Fellowship. It's a nice time of the year to be out bushcraftin'.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 03, 2012, 09:40:51 AM
Nicely done, RBM. With all natural materials too. All ya need is a cutting tool, some materials to work with, and you're good to go.

I think everyone's out practicing up so they can also be a part of the Friction Fire Fellowship. It's a nice time of the year to be out bushcraftin'.

Thanks. Yeah the weather is great right now. Outdoors is the place to be. Not working indoors. :(
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 10, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
Got a new video card and its doing good right now helping with the streaming speed and was able to see Jeff's video in not much more time than the length of it. ;D Great job with all natural and lots of good points about cord, punk wood, and socket. Problems I have are deleted or edited out of my videos but rest assured they do happen. One fellow said I make it look so easy. I said thanks but its not easy. I wish it was. ;) I also told him that he doesn't see the failed attempts and previous cord breaks that got deleted. If I included the those problems then like Jeff, the video would be "very" long. Jeff even cut this video down so he didn't show the gathering of materials and the shaping of parts or the cord construction. He has other videos that do show those things but the point is all the prep work takes time, add failures and fixes during the process. Depending on material availability that can be 45 minutes to hours for me anyway. It takes less time if material is available, more time if I have to go farther for them. As with the firebow, fire is never guaranteed even after all this.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on November 10, 2012, 09:51:46 PM
Looks good! I like how even the tinder comes from the pine. Nice to know you have enough meterials from just the two speceis. I wonder if cordage could be made from the roots of the pine tree and make it a true single source plant for friction fire?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 10, 2012, 11:46:02 PM
Looks good! I like how even the tinder comes from the pine. Nice to know you have enough meterials from just the two speceis. I wonder if cordage could be made from the roots of the pine tree and make it a true single source plant for friction fire?

One source would be nice but Pine roots have not worked for me. I have tried them a number of times and they broke every time. Some folks claim Pine roots or Spruce roots work so mileage may vary. Maybe roots of other species will work but I can't say as I have only used the common Yellow Pine here. I have used Hickory roots, Willow roots, and Virginia or Sand Pine (some call them Spruce Pine) roots also to no avail.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on November 11, 2012, 07:24:51 AM
Yeah, I often include my failures in my vids. The trade-off is the likelihood of boring viewers. I chose to do this as I'd get frustrated seeing other vids where folks make it look all too easy, as if they just did it in a first and only attempt. The problem is it's human nature to wanna come off having a confident and capable reputation. So personal ego can interfere with the action being portrayed, which is often misleading, like in the movies. The magic of video-editing, ha ha. Nobody wants to look bad in the eyes of their peers (or society) because it's unimpressive. They wanna look badass, ha ha. Even better if you're trying to impress your girlfriend/ wife, kids, or buddies of your virile capabilities, ha ha.

I also like to include my failed attempts because invariably I run into different problems. Especially, when working with freshly found materials.  In my last video (previous page) the challenge I had was one side of the spindle was rotted. It was an interesting encounter. My guess is because the dead branch I used to make my bow drill set was exposed to the Sun and weather. The top side of the branch was rotten where the under side was not. At the time, I was happy the branch was off the ground dry from any moisture. I didn't expect to have this issue, but I'm glad I did. Now I know, ha ha.

When I was making the cordage I thought the camera was recording when it wasn't. Hence why that wasn't in the vid. Probably a good thing as the vid was long enough as it was anyway, but as RBM mentioned I have a vid showing how I made the natural cordage. I linked to that vid in YouTube description. Or, you can see it here: Bow Drill Fire - All Natural (includes Saw Palmetto Prep) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLWTWCdeZVU)

One of the main skills of friction fire-making is overcoming problems (recovering) rather than successfully being perfect in a one and only attempt every time you wanna make a fire.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 11, 2012, 09:27:34 AM
Quote from: LetsRock
The trade-off is the likelihood of boring viewers. I chose to do this as I'd get frustrated seeing other vids where folks make it look all too easy, as if they just did it in a first and only attempt. The problem is it's human nature to wanna come off having a confident and capable reputation. So personal ego can interfere with the action being portrayed, which is often misleading, like in the movies.

It is not my intention to mislead anyone so I state that when posting the video on forums and discussing what problems I had and so on. I guess I should include a line in the video description about it so I will make changes under that info. Even though a lot can be learned from the failures, the goal is the coal so that is what I show rather than including a lot of extra footage and reducing retention time. Some folks might want to stroke their ego but that is not me and that is not why I exclude the failures. Friction fire is a humbling experience and I always want to be honest about that whether I exclude failures or not.

I have now made description changes to the FirebowSeasonedYell owPine video clip above.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on November 11, 2012, 10:11:56 AM
I wasn't picking on you, RBM or suggesting you were misleading. Actually you were quite genuine. The majority of vids show just the success, which is what most people wanna see.  Trying to do it in a timely manner without losing the interest of the viewer is always a challenge. Being a film-maker (and video-editing) is also a challenge in itself. I'm guilty of making quick success vids myself. It's not necessarily wrong to do and some folks will forget to mention that it took 10 tries before success (myself included). Either on purpose or because they got so caught up in the excitement of finally being successful. It's a balancing act of trade-offs. But, other folks can be real bad about it. Like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnZHrogL2E

Here's a spoof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egfZgmVtrok
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 11, 2012, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: LetsRock
I wasn't picking on you, RBM or suggesting you were misleading. Actually you were quite genuine. The majority of vids show just the success, which is what most people wanna see.  Trying to do it in a timely manner without losing the interest of the viewer is always a challenge. Being a film-maker (and video-editing) is also a challenge in itself. I'm guilty of making quick success vids myself. It's not necessarily wrong to do and some folks will forget to mention that it took 10 tries before success (myself included). Either on purpose or because they got so caught up in the excitement of finally being successful. It's a balancing act of trade-offs.

Oh, I know you weren't picking on me or suggesting I was misleading. I know the ones you are talking about. But you did bring up a valid point and I saw the need to make changes on my videos addressing that point.

Yeah, typically I just state what is there on the video, not what isn't there or anything else.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: JTD on November 12, 2012, 07:29:04 PM
Wow... like six months ago I said I'd get on board with completing this.   :-[

As always I've slacked, and time flew by!

Well I've put together a ferro rod free BC fire fun kit.  So I'm gonna put some time in this week and knock out a friction fire. 

Cough Cough.. I have keep up on flint and steel fire starting, but I see there is no FSFF!  >:( 

Well.. until I get my FFFlame.  I'll muddy up this thread with porn pics of my new little kit!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3207.jpg)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3208.jpg)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3209.jpg)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3210.jpg)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3211.jpg)
The enemy!
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/KITS%20and%20GEAR/Bushcraft%20Kit/IMG_3212.jpg)

TBC...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 12, 2012, 09:23:15 PM
Quote from: JtD
The enemy!

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious" - Sun-tzu

While I am no fan of Sun-tzu, there is truth there being a two-way street. Both for knowing friction fire and for knowing yourself. Don't think of friction fire as the enemy but as a challenge for yourself. Determination that never gives up no matter how frustrated it can make you. Keep at it and you will get it. ;D Failure is a part of everything we do but we don't let it get us down. A lot of times success can be measured in failures. Without failures we don't learn what went wrong and/or what we did wrong. It took a year of failures of about at least once every week before I got my first coal....on my own (without an instructor). Another year of continuous practice before the coals formed more consistently.

Here is the theme song. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9zKpO3Qus
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: JTD on November 12, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Decided not to slack,  so I spent the last hour making a friction fire... many many failures, but hopefully I get a FFF stamp of approval!

Soo here it is..   

Planned on starting off with a Mullen/ clamatus hand drill set, that woodsrunner taught me how to use.

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3213.jpg)

Well after getting some smoke and adding some pressure I snapped my first mullen twig.

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3214.jpg)
 
So I started another hole with a smaller stick, got some smoke and again put to much down pressure.. cracked mullen II!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3215.jpg)

Decided to switch it up. 

Took out my cotton wood bow drill set, and made a hasty bow.

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3216.jpg)

Found I couldn't put enough down pressure on my herth board with the little rock bearing block I was using, got to wobbly.  Also the board was to thick so I chopped it down, and tried again.

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3217.jpg)

Still the small size of my bearing block rock sucked!  So I tossed it for a hasty chunk of wood with wax.

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3219.jpg)

That was the ticket!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3221.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3222.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3223.jpg)

Even with a good coal, the frayed jute twine I was attempting to blow light didn't go..  Didn't help I was trying to take pics at the same time. 

Coal one Fail!

So back to the bow drill..

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3224.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3225.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3226.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3227.jpg)

Tossed in some char cloth to seal the deal on this flame!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3228.jpg)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3229.jpg)

Added some stank breath and.. walla!  8)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3230.jpg)

pitchwood

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3231.jpg)

Feather sticks and twigs

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3233.jpg)

Fire!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3235.jpg)

Took it outside to burn out since the wind was gusting around 25mph. 

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3238.jpg)

It burned on, and didn't blow out.. so I'd say mission complete!

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/ouddaammo00/abo%20skills/IMG_3237.jpg)
 
Thanks for the challenge!

JTD
 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 12, 2012, 10:08:39 PM
 :banana: :rofl: Awesome, switched sets to the lower ignition temperature wood or the set you are more familiar with and you made adjustments to reduce friction at the socket. Socket to hand fit and the socket hole itself can for sure make a difference also. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on November 12, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
Cool, I like the idea of wax as a bearing block lubricant. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: JTD on November 13, 2012, 11:46:33 AM
Thanks RBM for the motivation!! 
Honestly I usually do better with the hand drill, or at least I like it more. Had a surgery in my ankle so the bow drill position is not my favorite.  Need to start practicing FF more often for sure.. 
 
PW
Wax is awesome for bearing block lube, but it can suck if you put your spindle in the wrong way..   

I noticed I have a sweet new title under my user name. Woohooo! Thnx 8)

   

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on November 13, 2012, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: JtD
Thanks RBM for the motivation!!
Honestly I usually do better with the hand drill, or at least I like it more. Had a surgery in my ankle so the bow drill position is not my favorite.  Need to start practicing FF more often for sure.. 

I knew you could do it. If you are having problems with the standard body position of the firebow, then try to make an adjustment there that feels more comfortable. You need all the help you can get so being in a painful position is not good for going the distance. Just make sure you don't break the main positional rule. That is maintaining the straight line running down from your shoulder through the spindle to the board, and also keeping the socket tight against the leg preventing spindle wobble. Other than that I get into whatever position is most comfortable at the time. Sometimes the standard position or I may squat or sit on my other foot with my shoulder just above or resting on top of my knee but directly over the socket and spindle to keep the straight line.

Here I am sitting on my other foot but my shoulder is resting on my knee directly over the spindle. This position actually pushes my leg forward up against the socket. At least I hope that is what I am doing. LOL This one is Yucca on Yucca by the way. Conditions were dry so I got a quick coal under one minute. Had it been wet or humid it may have been much longer or I may not have even gotten a coal depending on the condition of the Yucca stalk. I had failures using old soft or rotting stalks. I got the coal once I had solid stalk to use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3z4RnbUj3I
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on November 27, 2012, 03:11:22 PM
Attempted hand drill today with mullein drill and juniper hearth, didn't try too hard, but failed to get even brown dust. the difference in hardness between the two materials is too great for it to work. Will need a softer hearth material. Also, the harder shell of the mullein stalk tends to cause the drill to wear unevenly toward one side of the drill, making it wobble in the divot. I think it is important to make sure the divot hole is initially hollowed out larger than the diameter of the stalk to make sure all of the harder mullein stalk shell is in contact with the inside of the divot to prevent this.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 11, 2012, 07:16:25 PM
Just added a link in the first post of this thread to view the FFF member list.

Friction Fire Fellowship Members (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=16)

If your name does not appear in this list, it is because your primary member group is set to something else, like moderator, supporting member, etc. You are still a member of the FFF, but your profile will have it listed as an "additional group".
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on December 11, 2012, 08:54:08 PM
I googled "mullien" so I could give it a try. There were so many pics for it I was wondering if it(mullien) was a general name. Like "pine".
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: 04man on December 11, 2012, 09:20:30 PM
Did I read that having the triple F rocker on the patch and shirt was a bad idea due to the idea of "elitism"? I think having it is a unique idea and is promoting the idea of harnessing the primitive that has brought us together. I haven't visited many other sites but they seem as though the common interest brings HUMBLE people together. Now isn't friction fire making a humbling experience?

Seeing that someone belongs to the Fellowship tells me quite a bit. That the person has achieved it utilizing different woods and fungi.......is Yoda-esque.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 11, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
I googled "mullien" so I could give it a try. There were so many pics for it I was wondering if it(mullien) was a general name. Like "pine".

I think it's a common name that a lot of people confuse for other things.

The plant has a 2 year growth cycle. The first year, it is a basal rosette of large, furry, soft leaves (which make a better TP than most leaves). In the second year it sends up a flower spike on a stalk that can reach up to 4 feet tall, though is typically between 2 and 3 feet. The flowers are clustered at the top of the spike and are yellow.

When this stalk dies and dries up, it has a woody outer layer, and an inner pith the consistency of hardened cork.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 11, 2012, 09:53:49 PM
Did I read that having the triple F rocker on the patch and shirt was a bad idea due to the idea of "elitism"? I think having it is a unique idea and is promoting the idea of harnessing the primitive that has brought us together. I haven't visited many other sites but they seem as though the common interest brings HUMBLE people together. Now isn't friction fire making a humbling experience?

Seeing that someone belongs to the Fellowship tells me quite a bit. That the person has achieved it utilizing different woods and fungi.......is Yoda-esque.


There is no official B&B FFF rocker, but there is also nothing to prevent members from having them made and sewing them on either.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: woodsrunner on December 14, 2012, 08:57:11 AM
I agree with Letsrock...i think its important to show our failures along with our successes...
...and i would show mine too...if i had any... :lol:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on December 30, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
I don't have a video. Will pictures do?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on December 30, 2012, 09:32:24 AM
I don't have a video. Will pictures do?

Post them up...if there's a lighter or firesteel in the pics...we may question!

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: BigHat on December 30, 2012, 11:42:41 AM
did someone request failures? here ya go!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alH67-irQZ0



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKf4r3cQT9M
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 30, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
Thanks for posting them. It illustrates just how difficult it can be sometimes, even with tinder dry enough to take a firesteel spark like that, if you can't get an ember...

You made the hatchet work look easy, though!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on December 30, 2012, 05:24:26 PM
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on December 30, 2012, 05:48:17 PM
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

I haven't broken them but I have thrown them and started all over again. lol Its what happens when I don't get the right materials and parts in the first place and I don't do it right in the first place.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: BigHat on December 30, 2012, 05:56:12 PM
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

nothing like failing to fail right. is that even possible?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LetsRock on December 30, 2012, 07:35:04 PM
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

nothing like failing to fail right. is that even possible?

If anything, it can add to the entertainment value, ha ha. If you can, convince an over-weight woman wearing too much make-up to prevent success then you might have the makings of a reality-show, ha ha.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on December 30, 2012, 08:30:30 PM
Here I have a cedar and a willow set.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uhVmj4HEgTw/UHIM8a_AtfI/AAAAAAAAAg4/_0TPANxiH2U/s720/10-7-12%2520012.JPG)
A cole in jute twine tendar
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vd2f-7FDFM4/UHODYt1AkmI/AAAAAAAAAhY/9wSRwOThxtU/s720/10-8-12%2520001.JPG)
One in cottonwood inner bark
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H3oDufwvOss/UHYHuumcfoI/AAAAAAAAAjc/cOMR7ArPleg/s720/10-10-12%2520013.JPG)
Fire!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xxltLdHw5Kc/UHODogHdurI/AAAAAAAAAhk/LQ9-Lv77bFU/s720/10-8-12%2520003.JPG)
My bow is willow with a little flex.
I like cottonwood the best one branch will give you everything you need hearth, spindel & tendar.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 30, 2012, 09:46:28 PM
Well done, Igm!  That's a nice bearing block you have, looks like it's been used a time or two. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on December 30, 2012, 10:19:41 PM
Thank you. The bearing block was giving to me. It is fired clay. Works great. I guess it has seen about 20 coals. I try and make 1 or 2 coals a week. I like to play with  different wood  see what works.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on January 02, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
I have a question for you all- I got 3 Mullein stalks over the weekend and am having no luck at all.  I've been able to get embers with red cedar hearth and white maple drill before and have used that mostly.  Not so good with the Mullein though.

I'm also trying this as a hand drill set, just FYI.  Anyway, what I got was near a reservoir if that matters, but it feels dry.  I put it next to a wood stove for two days to be sure.  I'd post some pictures, but left my camera in the truck and it's only 9 degrees out...

I cut the stalk a couple inches above the snow line, scrapped off the leafs and fuzz and removed most of the dark (brown) outer layer.  It has a really pithy inside, but it seems to harden as I drill.  The problems I'm having are that it won't burn in at all.  It will drill, but no smoke, no ash, not even a dark color where I drill.  I get heat, but not enough.  I'm thinking of trying it as an Eqyptian drill set because it would break as a bow drill set.

So it's new to me, it's winter here, the stalks are dark brown on the outside, very light and pithy on the inner part, very easy to break, cuts very easily...and that's about all I can think of to tell you. 

I'm wondering if it matters what season you harvest the stalk, if I need to harvest it closer to the ground, is there more than one type of Mullein (maybe I have the wrong type) as I've seen it more green on the stalk during the summer months out here...

I did get a fairly good amount of what I'm guessing are the seed pods (about the size of a sweet pea) that I'll plant here if it's the right kind.  It's kinda hard to find close by my home area.  The seeds are all the way at the top colored part, above the leaves.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on January 02, 2013, 01:35:21 PM
The other reason I'd like to grow it is because I've read the leaves can be dried and then crushed into a powder to make a tea with.  The tea is supposed to be really good for use as an anti inflammatory.   I've also read you can smoke the dried leaves and it's supposed to be really good for bronchitis.   The main things I'm going for are as a drill set and the tea.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on January 02, 2013, 02:15:22 PM
Dano, I tried is as a hand drill, not wih a bow. Same results, not even brown dust.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on January 02, 2013, 02:28:58 PM
Dano, I tried is as a hand drill, not wih a bow. Same results, not even brown dust.


At least we're not paddling alone then LOL!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on January 02, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
The other reason I'd like to grow it is because I've read the leaves can be dried and then crushed into a powder to make a tea with.  The tea is supposed to be really good for use as an anti inflammatory.   I've also read you can smoke the dried leaves and it's supposed to be really good for bronchitis.   The main things I'm going for are as a drill set and the tea.

Thanks again!


I haven't tried the tea, but I did try to loosen some severe chest congestion by smoking some of the leaves ONE time..........thoug ht I was going to end up the emergency room  :crazy: :puke:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on January 02, 2013, 04:21:28 PM
[size=78%]I haven't tried the tea, but I did try to loosen some severe chest congestion by smoking some of the leaves ONE time..........thoug[/size][size=78%]ht I was going to end up the emergency room [/size] :crazy: :puke:


Ouch, Blah....Ugh!


I've been trying to read up on it-so far it seems as if Native Americans (hope that's PC) smoked it quite a bit for chest ailments.  It's also listed in a homeopathic medicine manual as a nicotine withdrawl aid if smoked as well.


I'd be happy to just get an ember!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RBM on January 02, 2013, 06:05:43 PM
I have a question for you all- I got 3 Mullein stalks over the weekend and am having no luck at all.  I've been able to get embers with red cedar hearth and white maple drill before and have used that mostly.  Not so good with the Mullein though.

I'm also trying this as a hand drill set, just FYI.  Anyway, what I got was near a reservoir if that matters, but it feels dry.  I put it next to a wood stove for two days to be sure.  I'd post some pictures, but left my camera in the truck and it's only 9 degrees out...

I cut the stalk a couple inches above the snow line, scrapped off the leafs and fuzz and removed most of the dark (brown) outer layer.  It has a really pithy inside, but it seems to harden as I drill.  The problems I'm having are that it won't burn in at all.  It will drill, but no smoke, no ash, not even a dark color where I drill.  I get heat, but not enough.  I'm thinking of trying it as an Eqyptian drill set because it would break as a bow drill set.

So it's new to me, it's winter here, the stalks are dark brown on the outside, very light and pithy on the inner part, very easy to break, cuts very easily...and that's about all I can think of to tell you. 

I'm wondering if it matters what season you harvest the stalk, if I need to harvest it closer to the ground, is there more than one type of Mullein (maybe I have the wrong type) as I've seen it more green on the stalk during the summer months out here...

I did get a fairly good amount of what I'm guessing are the seed pods (about the size of a sweet pea) that I'll plant here if it's the right kind.  It's kinda hard to find close by my home area.  The seeds are all the way at the top colored part, above the leaves.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks!

My first question is, "Are the stalks standing and are they dead and dry?" Dead and dry standing solid wood that etches with the fingernail. Resin (sap) free also. Green stalks or green wood doesn't work. At least not for me.

I don't have mullein or cedar here growing wild to use so I don't know that combination or wood characteristics. I would think that cedar on cedar would be your best bet as long as its solid, dead, dry, and sap free. Maybe I should say "seasoned" cedar. I believe cedar is a similar softwood to pine.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on January 02, 2013, 10:26:59 PM
Let me clarify-I'm having trouble with the Mullein.  I have had success with red cedar and maple.

Yes, the Mullein was dead standing, not wet, not green.   The outer "bark" or membrane layer is dark brown and the stalk is quite brittle.  I was able to break the stalk with one hand, and it broke clean.

I tried it with the dark outer layer, which drilled through almost.  After shaving the outer layer off, the inner lighter layer did drill a cavity, but won't "burn in".  It just drills into the hearth (also Mullein) and then once the pith gets packed, it stops drilling and just polishes the hearth and spindle.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: shane on February 02, 2013, 11:32:20 AM
Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: moa_shooter on February 03, 2013, 08:46:15 AM
This video was made a couple of weeks ago using some materials from around the yard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY__YyqDELo

...and this one is from back in November while on a deer hunting trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRyUFBc8rAI
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on February 03, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Thanks for putting this up shane, I'd forgotten about trying that kind of hearth.  I'm going to try it with my mullein stalk.  I think the thumb loops will help too because I broke the spindle even trying the Egyptian method.  My stalks aren't strong enough to take that much side force.

I couldn't see in the video, but did you make a small notch on the hearth pieces to keep the spindle in place?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 03, 2013, 07:23:01 PM
Congrats guys, I got your requests and you are now fff. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: shane on February 03, 2013, 08:32:07 PM
Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Thanks for putting this up shane, I'd forgotten about trying that kind of hearth.  I'm going to try it with my mullein stalk.  I think the thumb loops will help too because I broke the spindle even trying the Egyptian method.  My stalks aren't strong enough to take that much side force.

I couldn't see in the video, but did you make a small notch on the hearth pieces to keep the spindle in place?


No Dano there is no need to with this method. The cylindrical shape of the sticks will hold it just fine and as you saw in the vid provide plenty of air.

As for the thumb loops I was Poo Poo'ed on for using them lol . My counter to that is that my hands are one of my most important tools and its just uncommon common sense to use methods that will not damage them. Using thumb loops will reduce a lot of that damage.  If you feel the need to go full native then I support ya but man you will pay for it till your hands toughen up lol.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 03, 2013, 08:41:42 PM
Nothing wrong with using every available advantage to getting fire.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on February 04, 2013, 08:06:55 AM
Yeah, I was taught there's this thing called working harder, or working smarter LOL  The loops just make sense to me!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: moa_shooter on February 04, 2013, 08:38:12 AM
I tried using thumbloops when I started with the hand drill but they just didn't seem to work for me.  I found them awkward to use and they just got in the way.  The key for success for me was a friend from Texas sent me a proven set made from sotol.  Once I was able to make an ember using it, which seemed much easier to me than what I was using, I was able to move on to using local materials like horseweed and mullein.

If the thumbloops work for you then that's great, it just wasn't my thing.  :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RoadLessTraveled on February 04, 2013, 12:15:31 PM
Here are several videos/pictures of one of my friction fires from last year.  If I need to make a more recent one, please let me know :)  One of the keys that I've found helpful towards success is starting slowly so the hearth and spindle tip warm up without using a lot of your energy.  Once powder has filled the notch, then pour on full speed and pressure.

I collected and used the Prickly Lettuce on location, using store-bought cedar 1x2 for the hearth:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2r38kmt.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2yz08j5.jpg)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/25aks5i.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/335b05z.jpg)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/65wiok.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2qmkrde.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/mim15s.jpg)

(http://i50.tinypic.com/suy3rn.jpg)

Harvesting the stalk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVn8k4tN_Lo

Cleaning and using it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaC5B504zeA
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 04, 2013, 12:37:11 PM
Looks good! Send a request as per the instructions in the first post and I will get you added as soon as I get to a real computer.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: U.W. on March 15, 2013, 05:28:14 PM

Here is my submission for the Friction Fire Fellowship.


The starting set
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8561032258_e21fc1440d_z.jpg)
I changed the bearing & bow to one I like better. The bow is the 
one we made on our VA/NC outing - though it's been thinned down a little since then.




The set I used for burn in, got the coal with, and subsequent fire. 
As mentioned - different "bearing block" I use a shot glass, this bow  has
seen a lot of bowing, and one of my tried & true favorites - my Rucksack
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8561032268_69db3d6d4c_z.jpg)
Believe it or not, there is a coal in there


Bit more closer photo of the smoking coal
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8385/8561032298_801b8a1af6_z.jpg)
Nice!  Bow poplar, spindle poplar, hearth cedar.


Now here is where I may differ a bit from the "norm".  You see...
I do not have fields of grass anywhere around me...  Not a big deal says I.
I just use wood shavings/feathers/curls.  Been doing it for years, and find it
works just fine for bow drill, hand drill, and flint and steel.
As a guy who carves, I have no shortage of wood curls. 
Here's the coal laid in a pile of apple and maple wood curls, in my little
grill, after some gentle blowing - I emphasize gentle - as with wood curls
in a grill, if you blow hard at first - you blow your coal away - literally
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8513/8561032336_73d0f997b5_z.jpg)


The first peek of flame
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8227/8561032318_c8de385922_z.jpg)
Now ya can BLOW on it - there's a nice big coal in there now.


Now we've got fire enough to build on!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8561032362_af5e6e8542_z.jpg)


And here we have split wood left over from... well... splitting wood of all things, lol
, from carving - laid on AND... Sustainable fire
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8103/8561034206_3b2ca72098_z.jpg)




u.w.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on March 15, 2013, 06:57:25 PM
Nice, U.W.!


:thumbsup:


Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on March 15, 2013, 09:43:24 PM
Well done!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: U.W. on March 16, 2013, 08:50:50 AM
Thank you both, MnSportsMan, and Petrified Wood


Fire by friction is always fun (and sometimes a little frustrating, lol)



I've got a thick blackberry stalk I've been drying for a while now, I'm gonna see
if it makes a decent hand drill spindle.  I tentatively think (hope) it will (yes, the thorns have
been removed, lol)


u.w.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on March 16, 2013, 09:02:55 AM
I just knew he could do it :)

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: abo4ster on March 23, 2013, 12:33:12 PM
Great thread.  Nice noting the weather (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/index.php/topic,5207.0.html) LETSROCK!

Here's mine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_abUIkk9ck
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on March 23, 2013, 02:46:40 PM
I can say that I witnessed abo4ster make a hand drill fire quicker than anyone I've ever seen. Nice to have you adding to our community.

Creek  :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Plainsman on March 27, 2013, 08:01:46 PM
Great thread.  Nice noting the weather (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/index.php/topic,5207.0.html) LETSROCK!

Here's mine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_abUIkk9ck

Nice one brutha!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Plainsman on March 27, 2013, 08:06:19 PM
It's okay to be itty bitty... I think.  :-\

Anywho, here is a tiny bowdrill kit that's damn small.  If you watch all the way through you'll hear my wife catch me making fire in the house!  :banana:  It was a downpour outside the day I recorded this in case you're wondering why I was practicing friction fire indoors. hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22d2-xxHpMs
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: abo4ster on March 27, 2013, 08:15:18 PM
Ha!  That was funny!  At least she didn't say anything about your spindle being so small. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on March 27, 2013, 08:24:12 PM
That's great!....Gettin' busted for a clandestine fire making operation by SWMBO in a thunderstorm!  8)  It don't get no more 'bushcrafty' than that..... What an ANIMAL! :thumbsup: :hail:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on March 28, 2013, 04:35:38 AM
Too funny! Nice work Plainsman :)

Creek
Title: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: kanukkarhu on March 28, 2013, 08:04:29 AM
Hahahahaha! That's funny! :lol:


Tapatalked from my batphone.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Draco on March 28, 2013, 10:35:48 AM
LOL "Nut'n baby."   My bet is she did not buy that. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: U.W. on March 28, 2013, 11:31:40 AM
LOL!  "ahhh........  nuthin baby" 


That sir.  Is OutStanding!!  &  Very nicely done  :thumbsup:


And Chris,


You is the master of hand drill in my book  :hail:


u.w.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Plainsman on April 02, 2013, 09:23:52 PM
Ha!  That was funny!  At least she didn't say anything about your spindle being so small.

I shut the camera off in time!

What an ANIMAL! :thumbsup: :hail:

Yeah! With a crazy eye!   ;D

Too funny! Nice work Plainsman :)

Creek

Thanks Creek!!!

LOL "Nut'n baby."   My bet is she did not buy that.

No. No she didn't. lol Tha Wringa for me!

LOL!  "ahhh........  nuthin baby" 

That sir.  Is OutStanding!!  &  Very nicely done  :thumbsup:
u.w.

Thankee!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on April 12, 2013, 04:00:25 PM
I've been wanting to be apart of the Friction Fire Fellowship since I joined B&B but the weather has been too crummy for me to demonstrate my proficiency.  So today there has been a little break in the weather although it's been drizzling on and off all day I figured I give it a go anyway.  Honestly, I've never made a friction fire in these conditions however conditions will most likely not be perfect when I most need this skill...

I don't want anybody to be mislead, all of my components were made prior to this photo shoot.  I assure you they were all made out in the woods and a were all harvested locally for the exception of my bow string which is a length of 550 para cord.  I could have used a spruce root but I didn't feel like digging through the mud today...  All-righty then, I have and ash bow, willow handhold and spindle with a cotton wood hearth, the birds nest is Cedar bark with Birch bark shavings (which I did collect and process on site) in the center of the bundle.     

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3142.jpg)

I already burned in my socket and cut my notch and I'm bowing away to get some dust...

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3153.jpg)

Not quite a 45 degree angle notch because of that I got a lot of dust up on top of the hearth board instead of inside the notch.  I've produced a coal nonetheless.

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3156.jpg)

I transfered my coal on a piece of Birch bark to my tinder bundle "birds nest".

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3158.jpg)

Ahhh, It broke into three pieces, dang it...  It's still smoldering pretty good though!

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3159.jpg)

Typically I wouldn't blow on the tinder bundle but I couldn't get a good photo of me waiving my arm...

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3160.jpg)

I got a good amount of smoke but it eventually ignited...

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3162.jpg)

Finally the smoke subsided and I have sustained FIRE!

(http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u412/WI_WoodsMan/IMG_3169.jpg)

PW, I know you preferred a video of the process and now I understand why...  I do hope I haven't cluttered up this thread with all of my photos I don't currently own a video camera but I still wanted to capture the entire process.  I'm looking forward to my membership in this distinguished Fellowship of Friction Fire!   :fire1:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on April 12, 2013, 06:15:56 PM
Congrats! Your request is approved.  ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on April 15, 2013, 05:53:06 PM
Hi all,

Well I am going to try and get into the Friction Fire Fellowship, with this video I did today.
Just click on the  Pic and the video should play.

(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/sicily02/th_HDV_0220.jpg) (http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/sicily02/HDV_0220.mp4)

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on April 15, 2013, 08:43:53 PM
welcome to the fellowship Bryan!

Creek :chopwood:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on April 16, 2013, 02:14:56 AM
Wow, you made that look easy! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on April 16, 2013, 07:06:47 AM
Hi all,

Al right I made it.   Thanks you guys :).  That bow I used is a 17" long and it takes a bit more work than a longer bow   does to get a coal.  Just for fun I wanted to take and use yucca on yucca I used a 27" long bow and it took 8 strokes to get my coal even though the spindle sliped out at the end.
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/sicily02/th_HDV_0163_zps82f7265c.jpg) (http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/sicily02/HDV_0163_zps82f7265c.mp4).

Old time camper Horace Kephart writes about using the bow drill in his book on camping and woodcraft.
He did not like it  and says it is hard to do or something like that.  It goes to show he did not practice that
much  lol.   Lets face it practice does make it easyer to do   and practice with different woods and wood combos. 

Anyways guys thanks for lettimg me join the Friction Fire Fellowship.


Bryan.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on April 16, 2013, 08:59:52 PM
Congratulations Bryan!  8 strokes?  That aught to be in the Guinness Book of World Records!   ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on April 17, 2013, 06:37:44 AM
Thanks, WI  Woodsman. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on April 21, 2013, 05:18:30 PM
I made a bow drill fire today using cotton wood and what I believe was some kind of burch. Then I got a nice cole using pine! I think it was ponderosa.
I need to learn to ID trees better  ;). Still I thought pine would not work as well as it did because of the resin.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on April 22, 2013, 03:30:48 AM
Really old well seasoned pine can work. Stuff that is exposed to many wet/dry cycles like driftwood, or standing dead wood.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on April 22, 2013, 06:43:35 AM
I saved some our white pine Christmas tree last year.   Spilt and carved some of and let it dry by the heater vent  for a few days.   Then gave it a go.  Spun up a coal prety quick.  White pine is really a neat softer wood that works too.   
Hey Chris Bring that peice of pine with ya when you come down, if you want to.    I would like to try it out for the bow drill if you do not mind.

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on April 22, 2013, 05:05:37 PM
Sure will, I will give you a call tonight and we can set the date.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on April 23, 2013, 07:46:26 AM
Friction fires sure can be an evil mistress. I spun a coal lastnight with little effort then lost it in my tender bundle....poor prep I suppose. Certainly exposes the need to practice skills. Nice to see folks getting flame :)

Fire is good!

Creek  :fire1:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on April 26, 2013, 04:37:53 PM
Creek, yea the sucks.
 I hate it when I get my coal into tinder and then blow it out.  I have done that a few times lol.

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: ks-bushman on May 13, 2013, 05:56:38 PM
here is mine

the materials are  experimental, i used for this bowdrill super seasoned green ash splitwood and cottonwood bark for a bearing block it was quite challenging not included are about 20 previous fails but i got it right as the block burned through and was scorching my hand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCSIrN__0A
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on May 13, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
Awesome job man.

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Plainsman on May 13, 2013, 07:30:29 PM
here is mine

the materials are  experimental, i used for this bowdrill super seasoned green ash splitwood and cottonwood bark for a bearing block it was quite challenging not included are about 20 previous fails but i got it right as the block burned through and was scorching my hand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCSIrN__0A

This one was eventful!  I kinda challenged ks bushman to try a combo he's never done in a really hard environment.  He actually got this coal blown to flames right before my camera ran out of battery life!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: ks-bushman on May 13, 2013, 07:37:58 PM
this was actually my 2nd sucessfull ember with this set i got it the very first time i started burning in then failed for an hour straight for the camera  :P
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on May 13, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
Good job ks

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on May 13, 2013, 08:40:25 PM
Welcome to the Friction Fire Fellowship KS, good goin' on that bow drill!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on May 14, 2013, 01:11:07 AM
Congrats ks-bushman! I added you to the FFF. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 14, 2013, 07:54:11 PM
I haven't visited this thread in a long time.  Congratulations to all that has made it!

I need to get out and practice this.  I haven't done it since my struggle.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Yankee on June 10, 2013, 01:58:50 PM
I'm Video Taping Challenged, so I'll submit pictures soon.

I made my first friction fire just last week, but in my opinion, that doesn't count because it was a bow drill set that was provided for me by the instructors at (MPSS) Maine Primitive Skills School. I've had no problem making my own set and had the mechanics down 90%, but that last 10% was the hardest for me to get. Thanks to MPSS taking a split second to review my blowing technique and TheMoodyBobbby1 of YouTube fame for a tip on cutting in my notch, I was finally able to blow my tinder bundle into a flame.

I was able to make embers with no problem. As a matter of fact, my very first attempt created a monster ember, but I lost it in the tinder material that I was provided with (coconut husk). After losing 4 more embers to that material, I went and scavenged up my own birds nest out of dried pine needles and some flowery weeds and on my 6th attemp, POOF! Fire.

Again, I was always "almost" there with everything else, but that last little bit of help (which was my needing to hold my nest material a little tighter to the coal) got me to completion. I'm sharing this because I believe that while we can all learn on our own through trial and error, having the skill passed down to you directly by someone else is so much more efficient and there's always that synergy that happens when someone helps you and you get a cheer and it's just pretty cool stuff.

After I made my first friction fire, I went on to help 3 others make theirs including one gentleman who was having an especially difficult time with his material. I gave him my hearth and he got his coal finally with his first try on it and made his own fire.

Anyway, I'm going to record my own friction fire here, but it's going to have to be with materials I harvest and process myself. One hard lesson I learned that would've saved me 2 hours of drilling: Make your own tinder bundle. The more you learn how to control your fire making tools and pick your materials, the better. My first set that I made myself was of Black Cherry. BIG MISTAKE.

I'm sure I'll be able to do it with no problem from now on (provided that all the stars are aligned right and the fire gods are pleased with me), but even if I would've mistakenly started my first fire that day without the tips of MPSS and Bobby, I probably wouldn't have known how I did it and I'd be setting myself up for more frustration in trying to figure out what I did right and why it was harder after that. All this text above? That's all for the guys who helped me.

I'll be back here in a few days gents and hopefully, I'll be grafted into The FFF upon PW's approval. :)

(http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u534/YankeeSurvival/imagejpeg_67_zpsdae69d54.jpg)
[This was the result of my first fire, but as I said before, it doesn't count in my opinion because I didn't make the set.]
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Switchblade on June 16, 2013, 12:47:34 AM
Testing the Laser Strike handle divot.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8nMD0gC43JQ/URhLteiAK-I/AAAAAAAASKE/M-GdPiy-YE8/s800/101_6439.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HkQoalhLT1w/URhLvfSqFuI/AAAAAAAASKM/rARdmIv_00k/s800/101_6442.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KA-XDIxrLvs/URh6NQPPMuI/AAAAAAAASKg/f8OwwIqE88A/s800/101_6449.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HtvYFxSjQpc/URhLqW352LI/AAAAAAAASJ0/VijAm-Q8Cvk/s800/101_6450.JPG)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on June 16, 2013, 08:06:02 AM
Awesome having a divit in yourknife handle is awesome.  I remember the first time I saw that I started drilling some into my handles.  Boy G-10 stinks so bad   lol  Micarta is a lot better. I decided that instead of drilling into the handle material I would put a 1/2" wide center pin and then drill it out and use that my Divit.
what ever a person choses it just gives you more options for the bow drill set up.

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on June 16, 2013, 11:11:16 AM
Nice size coal there Switchblade!  Is that a cedar hearth-board?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Switchblade on June 16, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
...  Is that a cedar hearth-board?

Yes, it is. Western red cedar.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Switchblade on June 16, 2013, 10:56:36 PM
.... I decided that instead of drilling into the handle material I would put a 1/2" wide center pin and then drill it out and use that my Divit.
what ever a person choses it just gives you more options for the bow drill set up.

Bryan

That 1/2" center pin is a great idea, I have not seen that before.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on June 18, 2013, 12:16:27 AM
I wonder if the ring in the handle of an ESEE Izula could be used as a bearing block?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: crashdive123 on June 18, 2013, 04:38:29 AM
I have incorporated skate board bearings in a sheath.  Works great.

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg.html)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on June 18, 2013, 06:19:35 AM
Thanks Switchblade,  I  did that with a couple of knives back in Dec. of 2012.   Before that I was drilling divit  holes in the handles.  I like simple and a 1/2" pin  drilled out is just that simple, no moving parts and right there on the knife itself. 

crashdive 123, good job on that  :).

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on June 18, 2013, 10:58:32 AM
I have incorporated skate board bearings in a sheath.  Works great.

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg.html)

(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg.html)

Ingenious CD!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: hunter63 on June 18, 2013, 12:01:05 PM
Here is a bearing block I found in a dry creek bed....and an archeologist didn't discount it as one....LOL.


(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0772crop.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/PICT0772crop.jpg.html)

Said the hole and worked outside appears "cultural"  or man made....LOL.....Won't say for sure.

Anyway my goal is to use this for a friction fire.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Bryan Breeden on June 18, 2013, 02:07:19 PM
Cool find with that round rock.  Grease that hole up some and see how it does.  I am betting it will work just fine for a bearing.

Let us know how it does.

Bryan
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on June 18, 2013, 04:27:45 PM
I haven't used a bearing block with a "bearing" in it yet...need to give it a try.

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on July 19, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
I like Cody and am sure he has skill but come on he is selling a bow drill kit for $85
Scroll down to the bottom. http://www.codylundin.com/abo_store.html
It still just a stick & string.
if any one here wants a "kit" I will send you one for $70  ;D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Dano on July 20, 2013, 12:50:13 PM
I like Cody and am sure he has skill but come on he is selling a bow drill kit for $85
Scroll down to the bottom. http://www.codylundin.com/abo_store.html (http://www.codylundin.com/abo_store.html)
It still just a stick & string.
if any one here wants a "kit" I will send you one for $70  ;D

But they have his spit on them...that's gotta be worth, ya know, like a lot!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 20, 2013, 03:19:14 PM
I think it's more about who made it than what it's made of. Some people will buy napkins that celebrities have used. :shrug:
Title: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Mudtar on August 16, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
What about pawpaw wood? I have some of it
Seems like it would work
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: LumberjackDK on August 23, 2013, 09:14:47 AM
Here is my video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W20pkpK5BH8
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: moa_shooter on August 28, 2013, 08:08:15 PM
Haven't done hand drill in a while so thought I would give it a try.  Horseweed spindle and Sotol hearth.  Was able to warm up the hearth using the floating method but needed to bear down on the spindle to get an ember.

Surprising how this comes back to you once you get the technique.  Anyone having trouble getting an ember should get their hands on some sotol.  RoadLessTraveled sent me some in the mail last year and it is amazing stuff  :D

(https://sites.google.com/site/bushcraftposts/_/rsrc/1377741169370/home/IMG_8109.JPG)

(https://sites.google.com/site/bushcraftposts/_/rsrc/1377741187288/home/IMG_8113.JPG)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 28, 2013, 08:14:12 PM
Well done! Wonder how the sotol hearth would work with a mullein stalk spindle...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: moa_shooter on August 28, 2013, 08:21:50 PM
Well done! Wonder how the sotol hearth would work with a mullein stalk spindle...

Thanks!  Sotol is pretty amazing stuff, I'm sure it would work.  I'll give it a try and let you know.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Southern Illinoisian on January 04, 2014, 04:43:00 PM
I was messing around the house today and just to see what i think could make a fire by bow drill. 550 cord and some common baseboard trim (it is basswood i found out), I will have to take pictures of it tomorrow and get the covetted label "Friction Fire Fellowship". Try it out.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: woodsrunner on January 06, 2014, 03:37:21 PM
Heres mine...thanks PW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUWb3c3oP20
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on January 06, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
   Congrats Woods!
 :thumbsup:


   I think all of us realize you were a member of the FFF long before the video was posted, and long ago you had earned the "award" even without the video being posted..
 :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on January 06, 2014, 03:52:22 PM
Indeed. And congrats Woods. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Electric Cowboy on January 25, 2014, 02:34:01 PM
Here is one I made from a downed cedar fence post,Sage Bark tinder,and Cow Bone socket.
I had my Elk Antler socket but wanted to try to use only as found materials. Except Knife.

The Start.
(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s590/johnconner2/CRABCREEK035_zps9c057c90.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/johnconner2/media/CRABCREEK035_zps9c057c90.jpg.html)

The Fire.

(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s590/johnconner2/CRABCREEK036_zpsc56a37b5.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/johnconner2/media/CRABCREEK036_zpsc56a37b5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on January 25, 2014, 02:37:28 PM
Nice bearing block!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on January 25, 2014, 02:43:26 PM
Very nice! Thanks for posting and welcome to our fff club!

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on January 25, 2014, 03:53:10 PM
Nice job Electric Cowboy, I gotta say Cedar's got to be one of my favorite Friction Fire wood, love the smell of fresh smoke off the hearth board!   ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: offtrail on February 05, 2014, 05:50:11 PM
Here is my video, sorry it took so long but i deleted a lot of my videos and this is the only one I could find. It did give me trouble but I hung in there and made it work. Thank god it wasn't a survival situation  8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmlhKvkNSY
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on February 07, 2014, 06:20:05 PM
Nice job OT, and you did it while standing!   :thumbsup:

Definitely an ACE in the hole!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on February 08, 2014, 09:00:06 AM
Here is my video, sorry it took so long but i deleted a lot of my videos and this is the only one I could find. It did give me trouble but I hung in there and made it work. Thank god it wasn't a survival situation  8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmlhKvkNSY

Nice! Thanks for joining us

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: offtrail on February 10, 2014, 08:53:16 PM
Nice job OT, and you did it while standing!   :thumbsup:

Definitely an ACE in the hole!
Thanks, it can be much easier to stand while bowing lol. When you get a little age on your bones you find others ways to make tasks more comfortable.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: offtrail on February 10, 2014, 08:55:43 PM
Here is my video, sorry it took so long but i deleted a lot of my videos and this is the only one I could find. It did give me trouble but I hung in there and made it work. Thank god it wasn't a survival situation  8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmlhKvkNSY

Nice! Thanks for joining us

Creek
Thanks for having me, it's a great feeling being able to make fire and being part of the family.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 15, 2014, 09:39:26 PM
This is not a petition for membership yet just me bragging. 

I just spun up my coal in 8:00 Mins! :fire2:

would've had it sooner had I prepped my bow better.  :doh:

It'll be down under 5 for my video submission.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on February 15, 2014, 10:23:39 PM
This is not a petition for membership yet just me bragging. 

I just spun up my coal in 8:00 Mins! :fire2:

would've had it sooner had I prepped my bow better.  :doh:

It'll be down under 5 for my video submission.

Cheers!

Good for you Skagun!  Looking forward to your video!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 18, 2014, 02:25:56 PM
My humble petition video submitted for your approval:
A one handed friction fire using a bow drill and Sktagan instead of a traditional hearth board:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obZQafG4GGQ
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on February 18, 2014, 08:05:22 PM
Nicely done. Welcome to the club.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 18, 2014, 08:33:31 PM
Well done, and congrats!

Nice to find an ember when you thought you'd have to keep drilling. I've got a video somewhere where the spindle pops out and the wind blows the ember right back into the hearth board and I was able to save it. :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 18, 2014, 08:38:52 PM
Well done, and congrats!

Nice to find an ember when you thought you'd have to keep drilling. I've got a video somewhere where the spindle pops out and the wind blows the ember right back into the hearth board and I was able to save it. :D
Thanks Guys
I do love those happy little accidents!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on February 20, 2014, 05:02:23 AM
Outstanding Skagun!
:thumbsup:


Congrats!
:)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: woodsrunner on February 20, 2014, 05:38:30 AM
congrats to OffTrail and to skagun!...well done gents :thumbsup:...woods
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on February 20, 2014, 05:49:38 PM
Excellent job Skagun!   :thumbsup:

This is the first time I've seen Sktagan used as a hearth board, as a matter of fact I don't even know what Sktagan is, perhaps you could enlighten me...

I've only heard of Sktagan once in a youtube video demonstrating percussion fire, the gentleman demonstrating used it as tinder to catch a spark from his carbon steel Mora which was produces by a piece of chert.  Is Sktagan a tinder fungus?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 20, 2014, 06:30:56 PM
hey woodsman:
Sktagan  (spelled phonetically) is a birch conk.  I think folks call it "Chaga" but I've only known it by its Pottawatomie name.  works fantastic at catching a spark.  it's all I use with my flint and steel. The old stuff is hard, brittle, and sparks just bounce right off it with no affect.  however, as you can see, it's hard enough to hold up under the pressure of a fire spindle, and will ignite nicely with very little effort.  I didn't show it on the video but I doused that piece in the snow and threw it back in my pouch for next time.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on February 20, 2014, 07:56:31 PM
hey woodsman:
Sktagan  (spelled phonetically) is a birch conk.  I think folks call it "Chaga" but I've only known it by its Pottawatomie name.  works fantastic at catching a spark.  it's all I use with my flint and steel. The old stuff is hard, brittle, and sparks just bounce right off it with no affect.  however, as you can see, it's hard enough to hold up under the pressure of a fire spindle, and will ignite nicely with very little effort.  I didn't show it on the video but I doused that piece in the snow and threw it back in my pouch for next time.

I figured it was a tinder fungus of some kind, I've been on a quest to find Inonotus Obliquus (Chaga) for years now...  What I wouldn't give for a diseased Birch in my neck of the woods...   :(

I like the name Sktagan better than Chaga, thanks for the lesson Skagun, much appreciated!   ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: bdavison on February 20, 2014, 10:18:09 PM
Here's my entry. Bow-drill friction fire set created in the field from materials collected on location. No pre-made parts used. I don't really remember what woods I used, I just grabbed what I could find that was dry. I think the hearthboard/socket was scarlet oak, and the spindle was buckthorn if I remember correctly. It had rained the day before, so everything was wet, as you can tell by the socket squeak on the first run. I used some beeswax in the socket to get it to stop squeaking, and then the punk lit off real quick. I had planned on just doing this to test out a knife I made..just to create a coal, so I didnt have a proper tinder bundle set up, and just used some quick dry leaves to get flame. I'm actually surprised it worked, since usually they just smoulder. I just happened to get lucky and it lit off.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzltD-Bm38
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 21, 2014, 09:17:30 AM
Great job BDavison.  especially like the close up shots of the step by step process.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 21, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
Congrats Bdavidson! Got you added to the group.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on February 21, 2014, 04:44:00 PM
 :banana: :welcome:we need a bow drill cartoon.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on February 21, 2014, 04:45:51 PM
I wonder if the ring in the handle of an ESEE Izula could be used as a bearing block?
I wonder also. I don't think it will but will give it a go if I unwrap my handle.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: offtrail on February 21, 2014, 09:01:05 PM
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful  friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.
 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: bdavison on February 22, 2014, 08:41:52 AM
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful  friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.

Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on February 22, 2014, 09:11:54 AM
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful  friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.

Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.

Way to go BD!   :thumbsup:

I'm going to be working on the Fire Plow next, I haven't seen that yet...
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 22, 2014, 09:40:47 AM
Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.
I couldn't agree more!  when I do demonstrations I only guarantee the smoke. . . I'm really good at making that part :rolleyes:
Regardless of success, the squeal that begins as the friction increases is music to my ears. . . very satisfying!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: bdavison on February 22, 2014, 01:06:55 PM
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful  friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.

Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.

Way to go BD!   :thumbsup:

I'm going to be working on the Fire Plow next, I haven't seen that yet...

I wish you the best with the fire plow, I've only been able to get a coal once with the fire plow. Usually, lots of smoke and not much else or it burnishes the wood and I have to sand out the trough to get friction again.

I've tried nearly every method of friction fire...bow-drill, fire plow, bamboo saw, rope saw, hand-drill, etc. The only two I've had a reasonable amount of success with is the bow-drill and bamboo saw. I'm still working on the hand-drill, but without a thumb string I haven't been too successful. Of all of them, the bow-drill seems to be the most reliable method. It's easier when you use good wood that you've had seasoning at your house for a year...not so much when you have to find something out in the woods and do it on the spot.

I've found that the absolute best way to get proper materials in the field is to baton them out of a dry log.  I usually look for dead trees that have fallen and are leaning up against another tree, and then saw a section out of it that's at least 4ft above the ground. Moisture usually settles in the lowest part of the log, so I try to use the top part  (the high side) batoned off for the fireboard, the inner heart for the spindle, and the low side for the spindle. In this way, I get the driest stuff possible. Limbs laying on the ground soak up too much moisture. The higher you go, the drier it will be.

Here are some other tips.

Make sure you get the initial divot in the fireboard and socket deep enough with your knife. Too shallow and it will let the spindle pop out...and usually right about the time it's ready to coal.
Make your spindle as straight as possible. Crooked spindles wobble during the spin, and are more likely to jump out of the socket.
If it squeaks it's wet.
An easy way to test if it's dry enough, is to put it up to your cheek. If it feels cold, it's wet.
Big notches let in lots of air, Small notches hold in heat. If you're getting lots of smoke and punk but no coal, try fiddling with your notch size.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: skagun on February 22, 2014, 02:20:45 PM

. . . If it squeaks it's wet. . .
not always.  I first heard the "squeak" while playing with a pump drill that was being sold at the gift shop where I worked. it was a real cheesy kit, but I wanted to try it out.  all I managed to do was burnish the socket, with no appreciable heat build up.  after tweaking it a bit and roughing up the parts was when I heard the "squeak" I call the whistle.  the increased friction between the two woods managed to build up some heat, but I never did get an ember. however, you couldn't get dryer wood. 
Of course YMMV  but it's always been my experience that the the squeak happens right before the smoke, and if I'm diligent, the coal shortly there after. 

I like your idea about the standing deadwood.  I think that's a great suggestion and I want to try that before the snow melts. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: DomC on March 04, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Two weeks ago my son Nick and I ventured into the Florida scrub with the intent of producing an ember using material from the Florida state tree The Sabal palm. We watched a video of Gundog5 entitled "Bow Drill fire-All Sabal Palm Success" the night before. My son said "hey that looks easy I wanna try that"... I looked at him and thought to myself "easy my a$$".

Now you see I have never been successful in making fire with the bow drill cause I never really persued it. It always seemed to me like a waste of energy and it was easier to use a Flint & steel, ferro rod, matches or my favorite a Bic lighter. Well, my attitude changed after seeing my son struggle with the bow drill two weeks ago. I felt that I needed to learn this after my son failed and became angry that it didn't work and that it was useless and a waste of time. I recall that it was a very humid day cause it had rained the day before. So I deduced that everthing we found had some moisture content in it. I went back and researched the web at all the bow drill instructions and videos till I was practically blind lol. There's alot of good info out there BTW.

Well I went out and found some really dry Sabal palm fronds and some dried Brazilian Pepper tree limbs. My plan was to use the Brazilian pepper as a drill and Bow & sabal palm for the hearth and handhold. I found a piece of Brazilian pepper with a nice shallow bend and fashioned it using 550 paracord for the bow string. A straight piece of it became the spindle.

I made a handhold of dry Sabal palm boot and the hearth was a piece of really dry palm frond. My first attempt was a failure after numerous attempts. I took a breather (I was breathless and my old knees were cramped up).
After a 20 min respite I made another divot and notch and gave it a go. I cranked that bow till I almost collapsed and Viola there was a waft of smoke coming from that pile of dust. I almost passed out...I could'nt believe it! MY FIRST EMBER WITH A BOW DRILL!! ESTATIC isn't the word, Happy, Happy, Happy is more like it! At 61 years of age I felt like a youngster with his first real knife!

So far I've been successful at 3 attempts after that first intial success! I have some pix to share...sorry I was solo so I have no pix showing the actual work, only pix of the embers (3 different ones)... some are blurry as I had noodle arms after generating tremendous energy whew!
(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/013_zps8d9203a5.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/013_zps8d9203a5.jpg.html) My First Ember.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/021_zpsf0905ed1.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/021_zpsf0905ed1.jpg.html) My Second Ember.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/029_zps0bf2872f.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/029_zps0bf2872f.jpg.html) My Third Ember.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/017_zpsc693307e.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/017_zpsc693307e.jpg.html) My Drill set.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/022_zps3eaa8ffb.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/022_zps3eaa8ffb.jpg.html) My Drill set.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/025_zps5cc1f6de.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/025_zps5cc1f6de.jpg.html)My Bearing block.

(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o631/DOMYNYK/023_zps3616c84d.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/DOMYNYK/media/023_zps3616c84d.jpg.html) My Spindle.

Thanx for looking!

Dom

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on March 04, 2014, 02:38:35 PM
Congrats! It's a great feeling to make fire seemingly out of nothing! :D
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Electric Cowboy on March 12, 2014, 10:47:34 AM
Got my first Two Stick Fire, Cottonwood with ESEE 5 Knife Handle Socket.
I am very happy with myself, one more way to skin a Cat.


(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s590/johnconner2/0311141609_zpscba07365.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/johnconner2/media/0311141609_zpscba07365.jpg.html)

(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s590/johnconner2/0311141624_zps39c3378e.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/johnconner2/media/0311141624_zps39c3378e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on March 12, 2014, 03:07:29 PM
Looks good!

How did the handle socket hold up? Do they get a little scorched or does it look like it will last a long time? Just curious because I've always wondered about micarta handles as sockets.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Electric Cowboy on March 12, 2014, 05:49:59 PM
PW, The Micarta works great,very slick. I keep it loaded with Candle Wax. I have since Drilled a Socket in my BK2,
and will probly do it to a few more Knives. I will add that it is not as easy,as with a dedicated Socket.
Also with Victory comes Failure.
Willow on Willow,Smoke,Dust,but no Coal. Wood was a little to damp.
No Problem, Tommorow is a new Day............Driv e on..........



(http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s590/johnconner2/IMG_3121_zps8216e2da.jpg) (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/johnconner2/media/IMG_3121_zps8216e2da.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on March 12, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
Thanks EC for some inspiration, I got to try me a FF real soon.

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: WI_Woodsman on March 12, 2014, 08:39:27 PM
Very cool EC, nice antler hand hold socket!   ;)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: offtrail on March 22, 2014, 08:13:15 PM
Good job and congrats!!!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mneedham on April 25, 2014, 06:41:32 PM
Here is my submission.... the fire chain.  Fire begets fire.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bttViIImKj4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on April 28, 2014, 11:24:45 PM
Welcome to the FFF! :thumbsup:

I apologize for the delay in getting you added. There isn't a notification system for the member group requests.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Southern Illinoisian on April 29, 2014, 01:29:03 PM
I just cut up a deer antler for a bearing block, cut a dimple for the spindle to set in, before I use it should I put any thing in the spindle hole to make it last longer. Thanks.

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on April 29, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
I just cut up a deer antler for a bearing block, cut a dimple for the spindle to set in, before I use it should I put any thing in the spindle hole to make it last longer. Thanks.

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2


I would make sure it is well burned in and smooth and symmetrical first. Then once the hole is well formed, I'd use some beeswax in it to help lubricate it and slow it from wearing out too fast.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mneedham on April 29, 2014, 04:22:19 PM
Welcome to the FFF! :thumbsup:

I apologize for the delay in getting you added. There isn't a notification system for the member group requests.

Thanks PW! FFF would make a really cool tab patch by the way....
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Southern Illinoisian on May 13, 2014, 10:27:12 PM
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a473/jdgwilliams/20140430_231248_zpsf4e8a6bb.jpg) (http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/jdgwilliams/media/20140430_231248_zpsf4e8a6bb.jpg.html)
Finally
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on May 31, 2014, 03:41:11 PM
Congrats! It ain't easy but it's very rewarding. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mckris705 on July 06, 2014, 10:54:36 AM
Still accepting applicants? I've done it twice, but never captured on film. I'd love to try it again though, and get it on film to join.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mneedham on July 06, 2014, 07:03:37 PM
Still accepting applicants? I've done it twice, but never captured on film. I'd love to try it again though, and get it on film to join.

Cool - Looking forward to seeing that!  Friction fire rocks!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mckris705 on July 08, 2014, 05:02:21 PM
Gonna try this weekend, unless I can find some free time before then. And I'll need my son to hold my phone to video it. Now I hope I can do it again! I'm hoping it's like riding a bike.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mckris705 on July 12, 2014, 03:03:34 PM
Tried this afternoon...failed miserably.  Couldn't even get a coal. Gonna try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mckris705 on July 13, 2014, 08:23:23 PM
Well I tried again today & no luck, but I broke the fireboard. Piece chipped off & I didn't notice, and then the whole corner came off. Maybe that's why it didn't work for me. Anyway, gotta notch out another & try again.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Southern Illinoisian on July 15, 2014, 09:17:29 PM
Well I tried again today & no luck, but I broke the fireboard. Piece chipped off & I didn't notice, and then the whole corner came off. Maybe that's why it didn't work for me. Anyway, gotta notch out another & try again.
keep it up man. I still fail from time to time. I will be doing a hand drill this weekend. If everything goes perfect. lol
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Reallybigmonkey1 on July 31, 2014, 07:11:45 PM
 This video is super long but I do two hand drill fires at the end if you wanna fast forward past my jabbering. LOL.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlxXZaMWW70
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: imnukensc on July 31, 2014, 07:47:43 PM
Excellent video, rbm.  Thank you!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: crunksknunk on August 01, 2014, 05:10:10 AM
Glad I found this place!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqa7guojKww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFnbA5a0QA
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: woodsrunner on August 01, 2014, 07:15:12 AM
This video is super long but I do two hand drill fires at the end if you wanna fast forward past my jabbering. LOL.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlxXZaMWW70
reallyWelldone! Reallybigmonkey!....respectfully... woods
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: woodsrunner on August 01, 2014, 07:19:56 AM
Glad I found this place!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqa7guojKww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFnbA5a0QA
OK Crunksknunk...we ever go camping together your in charge of the fire...thats about as quik an ember as can be got!...woods
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Reallybigmonkey1 on August 01, 2014, 02:27:39 PM
Excellent video, rbm.  Thank you!   :thumbsup:
Thanks! Im glad you liked it brother.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Reallybigmonkey1 on August 01, 2014, 02:28:49 PM
Glad I found this place!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqa7guojKww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFnbA5a0QA
Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on August 01, 2014, 07:04:10 PM
Amazing!   And FAST! :hail:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: crunksknunk on August 01, 2014, 10:07:57 PM

Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!

Thanks, Realbigmonkey, much appreciated! I've always enjoyed your videos, not to mention your contagious laughter and sense of humor. It's always good to see a fellow Georgian spinning coals. 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Reallybigmonkey1 on August 09, 2014, 07:02:19 PM

Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!

Thanks, Realbigmonkey, much appreciated! I've always enjoyed your videos, not to mention your contagious laughter and sense of humor. It's always good to see a fellow Georgian spinning coals.
Thanks! Thats even cooler knowing your from Georgia too!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on August 09, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
Some great skill here. How many FFF members do we have now?
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 09, 2014, 09:37:43 PM
On the forum index page, y can scroll down to the bottom and see the member groups. Click the orange fff link and it will open a page with the list of members. As of now we have 35. :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: upthecreek on August 23, 2014, 05:19:08 PM
Bump  :rofl: :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZk2axllntA&feature=youtu.be

Creek
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 23, 2014, 08:51:07 PM
You made that look easy! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: mneedham on August 24, 2014, 05:58:52 AM
Crunk - That was awesome! 
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Ivan on August 27, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Ok, I don't often take pictures or have pictures taken of me, but with a little searching, I was able to find a couple pictures from several years ago. The first picture shows the first solo bowdrill coal I ever got, the second a group coal that was part of a challenge (I was maybe 13 at the time... I'm the one holding the tinder bundle.) I've since gotten much better, with my fastest coal clocking in at around ten seconds. Anyway, here are the pictures, I hope they are sufficient proof.
http://imgur.com/uCY8pnA
http://imgur.com/N97q3eI
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 27, 2014, 03:08:38 PM
Congrats, Ivan!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on October 05, 2014, 03:30:39 PM
A little wile ago my son (16) came and got my bow drill kit. Proclaiming "I am going to make a fire". I gave him a time  & went to see how he was doing. With a little advice he had a fire going.
All is not lost with today's youth. :banana: :fire2:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on October 05, 2014, 03:45:38 PM
Your son has only you to thank for lighting that fire within, lgm.  Good for you both! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: SwampHanger on October 05, 2014, 07:13:15 PM
That Monkey video was Great! And for once someone was talkin my language!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: RangerXanatos on October 21, 2014, 09:15:33 AM
Bamboo fire saw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU2unsr2o-8
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on October 21, 2014, 09:56:11 AM
Congrats on using a novel method!
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Carson on August 10, 2015, 04:29:45 PM
I am hoping I can become part of the Friction Fire Fellowship, saw this thread and went to work on the challenge right away.

It has been a good 15 years since I have done this but I got the bug again because of this website and set to work making a bow from some native desert catclaw acacia. It is all over the lower deserts here but I cut this right off a tree in advanced base camp...my side yard at 2400'. 

First, a spindle and base board of yucca stalk were tried as it had worked before when I tried my first times, but the stuff I have is just too soft, made some black powder and ate right through the board before a coal caught. Plan B, native juniper. This grows in the southwest from 3000' to 8000' and some species grow as high as 9000'. The board and spindle went quickly with my little puukko and juniper proved perfect for making a quick coal but also very durable. The same drill hole was used several times and still has plenty of material left for more fires.

I set it all up in shade but dappled sunlight intruded before I got fully ready so not very good photography. It took longer to set it all up with the camera and materials, and tools than it did to spin up a coal. That took only the 15 seconds that the camera timer was set to. It did not smoke much but a bit of wispy smoke is visible here.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0918_DxO750bb.jpg)

A good durable black coal appeared in seconds but I knocked it off the thin, wide shaving of juniper I had placed under the notch. It held together as I pushed it back on and a very thin wisp of smoke still emanates in the image.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0920_DxO750cc.jpg)

Girlfriend kept on pushing the shutter but the camera was set on 15 delay as I started blowing on it. The tinder bundle is very thin shaven juniper.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0922_DxO750dd.jpg)

The dry juniper was like gasoline. It exploded into flame in the 15 seconds between the time I started blowing until the camera tripped once more.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0923_DxO750bb.jpg)

I'm not an expert when it comes to primitive skills and as I've said it has been a long time since I have even tried this. But like the first time years ago, I found that getting down to business and fashioning the kit takes a lot longer than getting fire. I know that materials are important and they vary from location to location. Good seasoned juniper is almost like wood with gasoline in it. LOL I can see why some from the east favor Eastern Cedar.

The one thing I have held onto is the sea shell I found down in the Sea of Cortez. It makes the perfect bearing and the smooth inner surface sort of turbocharges the spindle speed, doesn't make it drag like some bearing blocks do. It is thick and that is important. The thin shells got way too hot and this one heats up too so thick leather gloves make it bearable. The entire kit took me about an hour to make with my bumbling but it felt good to have the knife in hand and seeing something come out of the woods with the magic of fire from sticks as a quick result.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0947_DxO750dd.jpg)

This was a very fun challenge and a super way to make a flame. Way back 15 years ago I could make friction fire with just a hand drill, well one time anyway. That took some doing, a lot more strength than I have now. The bow still makes it possible.


Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 10, 2015, 10:06:30 PM
:thumbsup: Carson!


Right fine!... and Congrats for your efforts!!
:)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 10, 2015, 10:22:26 PM
Congrats Carson! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Punty on August 11, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
 :hail: :fire1:

  Very well done!

    I am hoping my initiation will be in two weeks. I don't think I'll be documenting it, but myself and a couple of other guys are going to jointly give it a shot.

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MilesFromNowhere30 on August 11, 2015, 12:52:09 PM
Here is my submission I am participating in The Truth as Hard as Steel challenge and I thought I could kill two birds with one stone since I am new to the site. The video is kinda long but the last half has my bow drill kit and fire making. The tree I used for both the drill and the board was Balsam Fir. It was a challenge to make the kit with just a trade axe but the challenge was well worth it. It took me quite a few try's to get the board carved right with a bigger tool.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yrm9QDvcLkk
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on August 11, 2015, 04:39:01 PM
Miles,
A) nice job
B) now I want to go play with my trail hawk
3) Welcome.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: U.W. on August 11, 2015, 04:51:04 PM
Well...  I for one am impressed  :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:


Job very well done, to you sir   :hail:




u.w.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on August 11, 2015, 07:49:18 PM
Well done MFN30!  I got you added to the group.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: JTD on August 11, 2015, 07:54:32 PM
Thanks for posting Carson,  really dig how the quality in those photos.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MnSportsman on August 11, 2015, 08:47:13 PM
Congrats MFN30!
:D
:thumbsup:

Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MilesFromNowhere30 on August 11, 2015, 08:50:11 PM
Miles,
A) nice job
B) now I want to go play with my trail hawk
3) Welcome.

Tell me more about this trail hawk? I like sharp things :)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: MilesFromNowhere30 on August 11, 2015, 08:50:59 PM
Congrats MFN30!
:D
:thumbsup:




Well done MFN30!  I got you added to the group.

Thanks guys
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Carson on August 12, 2015, 12:51:03 PM
Thanks all!

  I am hoping my initiation will be in two weeks. I don't think I'll be documenting it, but myself and a couple of other guys are going to jointly give it a shot.

Punty I'm sure you will be successful in your friction fire endeavor. Now that you have set your mind to it you will get your fire by this acient method. I think the biggest hurdle is just deciding to go for it.

The two things that took me the longest to make the kit was first making a bow to run the spindle. I wanted something that not only worked well but would last as part of a long term kit. Finding the right wood and the perfect branch, cutting it down took about as long as carving out the bow in this picture. I used the tool I will normally have with me on a long hike or backpack, a small thin blade. With other essentials I like to keep the load nice and light as possible. 

(http://photos.imageevent.com/boynhisdog/obscurepassage/_MG_0947_DxO750dd.jpg)

The bearing has always been one of the more difficult pieces until I found that shell. That really changed things, freed up the spindle speed. The rest of the kit, the base board and the spindle went very quickly.

Getting a flame after setting it all up took less than a minute. I really think anyone can do this if they find workable materials. I'm going down to the river tomorrow and find some long thin spindle material and try another hand drill. I know some plants that are just perfect for hand drills or bow drill spindles. Time to get some more calluses built up. LOL

Thanks for posting Carson,  really dig how the quality in those photos.

JTD, thanks! I thought the images could have been better but I'm glad they came out as good as they did. LOL
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: lgm on August 13, 2015, 05:50:01 PM
Miles,
A) nice job
B) now I want to go play with my trail hawk
3) Welcome.

Tell me more about this trail hawk? I like sharp things :)
the cold steel trail hawk, tomahawk . About $20. Good as is & fun to mod.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: Unknown on August 13, 2015, 07:28:25 PM
Nice job Carson.

The shell is very cool. I've been looking for something like that. Natural, Lightweight, Easy to make. Going to have to see what I can come up with.

Good choice of blade too. I've had a few YP blades. I sold two and have two now. -so yeah, really like them a lot.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: treez on July 01, 2016, 06:33:03 AM
So a few nights I go I attempted my second bow drill fire. My first I tried a few years ago and was unsuccessful.  I think it may of had something to do with my dog taking my spindle when I went to go looK for a branch to make the bow.

So I was hiking and found a nice piece of sugar maple, Soni cut a piece off and brought it home.

Then I went to work on it.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_170115.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_170115.jpg.html)

Carved the bark off and set it asside. And began splitting
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_170420.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_170420.jpg.html)

Once that was done, I carved my spindle, hearth board and such.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_171350.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_171350.jpg.html)

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174416.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174416.jpg.html)

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174824.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174824.jpg.html)

Then I began to spin up a coal. As I was working the bow it was smoking good, but the string began to ride high near the bearing block. So I decided to stop and reposition and the ember was smoking, so I decided to blow on it slightly. 

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175123.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175123.jpg.html)

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175133.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175133.jpg.html)

I was going to grill that evening, so I decided to make the fire in my gril.

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174830.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_174830.jpg.html)

I couldn't get a pic of me blowing the ember to a flame, bease in was blowing the ember to flame. I had a small bird nest of cedar bark. If that makes this not count, then so be it. I know I did it and it was freaking awesome!!

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175231.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175231.jpg.html)

(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/pmigz/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175325.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/pmigz/media/bushcraft/friction%20fire/20160629_175325.jpg.html)

So there you have it. My first successful bow drill.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: wolfy on July 01, 2016, 07:51:12 AM
Nice goin,' treez!  :thumbsup:    I'd say congratulations are in order. :hail: :cheers:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: treez on July 01, 2016, 08:32:02 AM
Thanks! When I have time I am going to try and get a video of me doing ad well.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 01, 2016, 07:22:40 PM
Congrats! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: treez on July 04, 2016, 09:59:20 AM
So when I hit the button to join the "Friction Fire Fellowship" there isn't a prompt or anyplace to say what post #. Like in my case it was post #508 i think.
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: PetrifiedWood on July 04, 2016, 02:49:24 PM
So when I hit the button to join the "Friction Fire Fellowship" there isn't a prompt or anyplace to say what post #. Like in my case it was post #508 i think.

I checked your profile and it looks like you are part of the FFF member group already when I am logged in as an Admin, but it doesn't show up when logged in as a regular member. I made the FFF your primary member group and moved your supporting member group to the additional groups category. Let me know if everything still works as it should with your account and if not, we will try a different approach.

 FFF member list  (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=16)
Title: Re: Friction Fire Fellowship
Post by: treez on July 05, 2016, 06:44:54 AM
So when I hit the button to join the "Friction Fire Fellowship" there isn't a prompt or anyplace to say what post #. Like in my case it was post #508 i think.

I checked your profile and it looks like you are part of the FFF member group already when I am logged in as an Admin, but it doesn't show up when logged in as a regular member. I made the FFF your primary member group and moved your supporting member group to the additional groups category. Let me know if everything still works as it should with your account and if not, we will try a different approach.

 FFF member list  (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=16)

Thanks PW! Yeah everything seems to be working on my end.