Blades and Bushlore

Bushlore Topics => Bushlore and Outdoor Skills => Topic started by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 09:18:15 AM

Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 09:18:15 AM
I haven't seen a place for any Boy Scout Leader to come regularly to talk about problems, questions, neat ideas or anything else on B&B pertaining to the Boy Scouts.  I have seen some good posts about the BSA here and there but I thought it would be a good idea to have a localized thread where we can discuss anything about the goings on of troops, districts, councils, etc. 

Please feel welcome to voice any questions or give any great ideas.
Also, we might know you on the regular B&B boards but please explain your position in the BSA and if you are just a helping parent that is great, too.

This is not just for the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) but any Scout Leader from around the World!
Scouts are connected through the World Brotherhood of Scouting.


(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/World_Scout_Emblem_zps200c9b31.png)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 09:23:46 AM
I'm Matt.  I am Assistant District Commissioner of the Nishnabec District of the Calumet Council.  I am, also, an Assistant Scoutmaster in Troop 610, Oak Forest, IL (Calumet Council) and First Mate of Sea Scout Ship 13, Plainfield, IL (Rainbow Council).  I have had many other positions in my time as an adult leader in the BSA ranging from Tiger Den Leader to Scoutmaster.  I am a Brotherhood Member of the OA (Order of the Arrow) and spend a lot of time helping the youth in the OA.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on February 13, 2013, 09:29:59 AM
I have several friends with kids about at that age.  Because I camp alot, they have asked me about the Boy Scouts and if they should join 'em up.  They have certain concerns I'm sure you've heard before.  I have always encouraged participation.  The discipline and goals achievement activities are invaluable to a kid.   

Thanks for taking the time and energy to invest in our youth.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 09:36:25 AM
I appreciate you encouraging participation.  It is hard to get kids to participate in the urban/suburban areas around here because it's "not cool" to be in the scouts.  I don't know what is more cool than shooting bb guns while your a little kid and shooting rifles and shotguns when you are older, rock climbing, swimming, fishing, and a whole lot more.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: WoodsWoman on February 13, 2013, 11:05:31 AM
Matt.. is it really a 'not cool' factor or is it just plain fear?  From the parents point of view? 
 
What I mean is..  and for example..  A boy forgot that his jeans had his pocket knife in it, wore those jeans to school and while showing off his pride and joy of his BC knife he ended up getting expelled.  Not just warned or the knife conviscated..expell ed with the 0 tolerance law.   The parents had to try three other schools just to get this kid re-enlisted back into school.  The parents have to drive this kid to a bus pick-up four miles away every day..twice a day.    They are wishing they had never put this kid in BoyScouts.   They are spreading the word to other parents what could happen ..spreading the fear.  Yes, they are angry at the 0 Tolerance law, but feel that the choice THEY had to enlist their boy into BC's could have avoided all this hassle.    He's no longer in BC.    He's hurt, confused and now has an attitude about 'weapons' and how you can loose all your friends over having one in your hand. 
 
Its incredibly sad how things have changed.
 
WW 
 
 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Frugal Bohemian on February 13, 2013, 11:14:16 AM
Matt.. is it really a 'not cool' factor or is it just plain fear?  From the parents point of view?

As the father of 3 boys, I can say it's more likely a "not cool" factor and not a "fear" factor.  The situation you spoke of is an outlier and not something that most parents really think about too much.  Suburban kids have different peer pressures than kids in rural areas.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: WoodsWoman on February 13, 2013, 11:24:22 AM
I do agree with the comment of differences of peer pressures of rural/suburban kids.   I think its the same for the parents of these children too as far as peer pressure.   
 
WW.
 
 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 11:40:54 AM
WW:  Frugal has it right.  The kids around here respect the gangs (whether it be fear, envy or whatever else) and the gangs don't think it's cool and so a blind majority doesn't think it is cool.  The media doesn't help the image of the American Boy Scout either.  For example, the movie called "UP", shows one of the major characters as a scout that is portrayed as a kid that who is some what nerdy, clumsy, overweight, somewhat annoying and whiny.  It is a great movie and the kid shows to have a good heart but the outward appearance did nothing to flatter the scouts.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 11:43:04 AM
On another note:  Even kids that will never walk away from the Boy Scout program and love it, may probably not ever tell their friends about how much fun it is and that they should try it out.  If they do, it is not often. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: WoodsWoman on February 13, 2013, 11:53:01 AM
I agree that the media hasnt helped the Boy Scouts.    I'm all for Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and Cadets. 
 
I had a conversation not to many years ago with another young parent.  This parent wanted to find something for their 7 year old boy to do.   I mentioned Boy Scouts.. the look I got was disturbing.  The comment was " I dont need my boy shooting and cutting things up".  whoa...     That set me off.. and I started with "what would you rather have?  A boy who is handed a weapon and not having a clue on how to use it or one that holds that weapon with respect and knowlege of what its capable of and better his chances of survival wether against human or animal?"....   And then I asked them to look deeper into what these boys are taught by reading the Boy Scout books.   
 
He's in Boy Scouts now and enjoying himself.  His dad is a great participator.
 
This still goes back to that initial 'fear'  that parent had from like you said.. media. 
 
WW.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on February 13, 2013, 11:54:44 AM
Wish that there were more Matt's in this world.  Can't imagine trying to entice inner city kids into the scouts.

I wonder if I, as a school teacher, would have been shot down promoting the scouts in the open...in Central FL...got called out on having a bible on my desk...

go see your kids classroom and what they're teaching them.  Really.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Frugal Bohemian on February 13, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
WW:  Frugal has it right.  The kids around here respect the gangs (whether it be fear, envy or whatever else) and the gangs don't think it's cool and so a blind majority doesn't think it is cool.  The media doesn't help the image of the American Boy Scout either.  For example, the movie called "UP", shows one of the major characters as a scout that is portrayed as a kid that who is some what nerdy, clumsy, overweight, somewhat annoying and whiny.  It is a great movie and the kid shows to have a good heart but the outward appearance did nothing to flatter the scouts.

In my suburb (and I'm pretty close to the city) it's not so much about respecting gangs as it is about the "nerdy/oaf" perception of the scouts.  And the uniforms.  Kids are goofy about that stuff, especially when it's not part of the culture of their environment.  They're not seen as "cool", even though they do cool stuff.  None of my kids' friends ever had anything but fear/distrust of gangs and mostly ambivalence towards the scouts.  I kinda wish the scouts had better PR in the suburbs and the city.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 01:23:38 PM
WW:  Frugal has it right.  The kids around here respect the gangs (whether it be fear, envy or whatever else) and the gangs don't think it's cool and so a blind majority doesn't think it is cool.  The media doesn't help the image of the American Boy Scout either.  For example, the movie called "UP", shows one of the major characters as a scout that is portrayed as a kid that who is some what nerdy, clumsy, overweight, somewhat annoying and whiny.  It is a great movie and the kid shows to have a good heart but the outward appearance did nothing to flatter the scouts.

In my suburb (and I'm pretty close to the city) it's not so much about respecting gangs as it is about the "nerdy/oaf" perception of the scouts.  And the uniforms.  Kids are goofy about that stuff, especially when it's not part of the culture of their environment.  They're not seen as "cool", even though they do cool stuff.  None of my kids' friends ever had anything but fear/distrust of gangs and mostly ambivalence towards the scouts.  I kinda wish the scouts had better PR in the suburbs and the city.
Wish that there were more Matt's in this world.  Can't imagine trying to entice inner city kids into the scouts.

I wonder if I, as a school teacher, would have been shot down promoting the scouts in the open...in Central FL...got called out on having a bible on my desk...

go see your kids classroom and what they're teaching them.  Really.

When I helped as a district membership chair several years ago, I used to go to the schools (in uniform) and talk to the kids about the fun and adventure of scouting for recruitment of new scouts.  The little kids (1st to 3rd) would light up and all want the paper work to sign up for the Cub Scouts.  The 3rd and 4th graders would be a little more hesitant and look around (even the kids already in the scouts) and see how there their friends were reacting.  And the 5th through 8th graders (Boy Scout age) would just laugh and snicker.  I couldn't tell what they were saying because I have lost a lot of hearing but I know it was not good things that's for sure. 

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 01:26:12 PM
I have a question for scouters out there about fall camporees and winter klondikes (at least that is what we call them around here).  We have been having poor turn outs for these district wide events and struggle to get them attended and fun filled.

What do you all do for these type of events and are they well attended?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on February 13, 2013, 01:29:08 PM
retract my comments.

I fully support Matt.   :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Saintnick001 on February 13, 2013, 02:03:36 PM
I really wish I had stuck it out in Scouts. I made it through Cubs and then Webelos. Would have been an actual Boy Scout with the cool tan uniform if I had continued with it. Not sure what happened but it's something I kinda regret.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on February 13, 2013, 02:30:51 PM
I have been in Scouting since I was a Scout.  Eagle Scout, Brotherhood OA.  Trained Scoutmaster/ASM.  I've been a Unit Commissioner, ASM, SM, Varsity Coach and now I am just a Cubby Dad.

Klondike and Camporee attendance seems to be linked to two things: how active and supportive the Troop is and what the Troop's relationship is with the District...as well as how active and visual the District is from the Troop perspective.  I know often Troops will be less enthusiastic to attend District activities if there is little to no District interaction at the troop level. 
We have had some stellar Klondikes and some not-so-much back home in Silvertip District in Montana...but it was usually pretty good and the OA always had a stellar showing as staff for the events.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 02:55:16 PM
Klondike and Camporee attendance seems to be linked to two things: how active and supportive the Troop is and what the Troop's relationship is with the District...as well as how active and visual the District is from the Troop perspective.  I know often Troops will be less enthusiastic to attend District activities if there is little to no District interaction at the troop level. 
We have had some stellar Klondikes and some not-so-much back home in Silvertip District in Montana...but it was usually pretty good and the OA always had a stellar showing as staff for the events.

We (district members) have asked Scoutmasters and ASMs at roundtables why there is poor attendence at the Camporees and Klondikes.  They say they have other outings planned and/or don't have a reason.  We have tried to think out of the box and make new ideas for the outings but still there is no use when no one even signs up to go.  Our Spring Camporee is heavily attended because we have our OA Tap Out at this event and this is the only time a year a prospective member can be tapped out.  Everyone seams to have fun with what ever had been planned at the Camporee but I question if it would be attended if there was no Tap Out.

I have been in Scouting since I was a Scout.  Eagle Scout, Brotherhood OA.  Trained Scoutmaster/ASM.  I've been a Unit Commissioner, ASM, SM, Varsity Coach and now I am just a Cubby Dad.

You know as well as I do that being just a Cubby Dad is quite often more important than any other adult position in scouting.  ;)

I will soon be a Tiger Den Leader again.  I am looking forward to the times with my son but I am cringing at the chaos (or is it fun) of the whole Tiger Den.   :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on February 13, 2013, 03:07:07 PM
Matt: This is my first son in Scouting, so I am stoked for sure.

Sounds like it may be worth seeing if the OA boys would be willing to make the rounds of the Troops and try to get the boys jazzed up for upcoming events.  perhaps have them survey the boys when they visit to see what they would like to do at a camporee.
We did a MountainMan Rendezvous based camporee just before I left socal.  It was a BLAST!  We had costume contest, displays and the main event was a timed course involving old-time skills: flint and steel, tomahawk throwing, canoeing course, etc. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 13, 2013, 04:36:26 PM
Now that sounds like a pretty good idea.
I will have to see about that for our Fall Camporee.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on February 13, 2013, 06:37:29 PM
Sometimes ya gotta lead the leaders.  Boy pressure can work quite well.  So can getting charter org's jazzed up too...especially with church-chartered units.  A lot of times it seems if the preacher/Bishop/clergy gets excited, it's going to happen regardless of what the SM thinks.  Getting parents involved in running stations and giving presentations makes a lot of difference as well.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 14, 2013, 06:31:51 AM
I can agree with that.  It would be nice if the Unit Commissioner staff was always doing their job and meeting with the units including the Institutional Head and Chartered Rep.  A lot of times the I.H. and charter org. around here will open their doors for the scouts to have a spot and then want nothing more to do with the scouting unit.  They won't even offer a person as a chartered organization representative (as they are supposed to).  This being the case, there is little charter organization - unit contact.  I have seen pros and cons of this missing contact but in times where the charter has massive amounts of kids, the charter does little to help get new members. 
Did that make sense because it did when I wrote this but I am not sure now.
 :shrug:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: C3 Knives on February 14, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
Hey Matt, I don't know what to say about a lot of the troubles. Many good points have been made here. In changing times, It may be that the scouts become a more local entity. Ebb and Flow kind of thing. Some how you need to find the cool factor and tap it. Maybe do an event and open it to the general public. Advertise it as cool survival pack trip or something. Then once you have them on the trip you can show them how cool the Scout program really is. Something in the approach needs to change. I think it's awesome you have been so involved. Good on ya Bro.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Frugal Bohemian on February 14, 2013, 08:46:01 AM
Advertise it as cool survival pack trip or something. Then once you have them on the trip you can show them how cool the Scout program really is. Something in the approach needs to change. I think it's awesome you have been so involved. Good on ya Bro.

Two words:

Zombie Apocalypse!!!

Actually, I have no idea if that's the right approach or not.....but Zombies seem to be the in thing right now.  Also, with all of the reality shows on right now (Doomsday Preppers, Survivorman, Survivor, etc. etc.) there's gotta be a way to work that angle into scouting recruitment.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Nelson on February 14, 2013, 09:03:02 AM
Great job on this section Matt. Love the idea.
I am Cub Scout leader and Assistant Cub Master. Our Pack and Troop has seen constant declining numbers the last few years, until this past year. Our Pack almost doubled in size! We were lucky enough to have a huge number sign up and so far stick with it. I personally was extremely curious as to what the draw was and many parents said it was word of mouth. They had heard from other parents whose sons had such a great enjoyably and sometimes educational time last year. I truly believe that you get out of it what you put in. It's not just about the time and energy you put in, it's about the passion behind it. If the leader cares, enjoys it and wants to do it, then usually the boys will as well. Going forward we are all hoping that the increasing numbers continue and that it will carry over to the Troop.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on February 14, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
I maybe way off here, but are soldiers "cool" up there, Matt?  They get alot of respect down here.  Having a soldier in uniform that was a boy scout give a short testimony about how it prepared him for service with you on your recruitment talks might provide some "coolness".  Or a uniformed fireman/boy scout.  The kids down here love both those guys.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 14, 2013, 10:30:29 AM
MadMax:  Thankfully, yes the kids respect the military.  That is a great idea about getting some to talk how the Boy Scouts prepped them. 

Nelson:  Passion from the leader is key.  If he is just loddy dah then the unit will definitely, suffer.

Frugal and C3:  Our council is hosting an E-Prep Course based on the Zombie Apocalypse.  Although it is only open to Boy Scouts.  The issue with inviting non-scouts is insurance coverage.  At certain events, we allow non-scouts to come out and participate but they need to sign a Boy Scout application (doing so covers them under the insurance).  We don't ask for any money for the "trying out" of the scouts at these events and explain it is just for insurance purposes.  More times than not, the parent walks away with the non-scout.  On the other hand, we gain a few members this way but it is not as many as the ones that walk away.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wsdstan on February 14, 2013, 02:33:04 PM
Matt.. is it really a 'not cool' factor or is it just plain fear?  From the parents point of view? 
 
What I mean is..  and for example..  A boy forgot that his jeans had his pocket knife in it, wore those jeans to school and while showing off his pride and joy of his BC knife he ended up getting expelled.  Not just warned or the knife conviscated..expell ed with the 0 tolerance law.   The parents had to try three other schools just to get this kid re-enlisted back into school.  The parents have to drive this kid to a bus pick-up four miles away every day..twice a day.    They are wishing they had never put this kid in BoyScouts.   They are spreading the word to other parents what could happen ..spreading the fear.  Yes, they are angry at the 0 Tolerance law, but feel that the choice THEY had to enlist their boy into BC's could have avoided all this hassle.    He's no longer in BC.    He's hurt, confused and now has an attitude about 'weapons' and how you can loose all your friends over having one in your hand. 
 
Its incredibly sad how things have changed.
 
WW 
 
 

While I don't like zero tolerance policies I understand that the rules are there.  I don't know why they would blame the Boy Scouts.  The child made two mistakes here.  The first was having it in his pocket which is easy enough to do without knowing it.  Where he made the big mistake was showing "his pride and joy" to other children.  I suspect the Boy Scouts would have told the child not to take the knife out.  Maybe the problem here lies with the parents. 
 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on February 14, 2013, 07:25:56 PM
I can agree with that.  It would be nice if the Unit Commissioner staff was always doing their job and meeting with the units including the Institutional Head and Chartered Rep.  A lot of times the I.H. and charter org. around here will open their doors for the scouts to have a spot and then want nothing more to do with the scouting unit.  They won't even offer a person as a chartered organization representative (as they are supposed to).  This being the case, there is little charter organization - unit contact.  I have seen pros and cons of this missing contact but in times where the charter has massive amounts of kids, the charter does little to help get new members. 
Did that make sense because it did when I wrote this but I am not sure now.
 :shrug:

Yes indeed, it makes total sense.  Thats exactly the scenario i had in mind.  That seems to be the most common point of failure.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: joebill on February 14, 2013, 08:48:15 PM
I'll give you a bit of "for what it's worth" which may well be nothing. I loved being a boy scout, but almost didn't join because of the cub scout experience. Back towards the middle of the last century, cub scouts were placed in the tender care of "den mothers" and got the living crap mothered out of them, like they didn't have enough of that at home. Projects were likely to involve yarn, blunt nosed scissors, finger painting, something that resembled cheerleading with nothing and nobody to cheer about or for.

Tipical den mothers were always at the top of the local social strata, and felt that their charges should be cognisant of that and offer due reverance to them as well as their spoiled offspring. I couldn't have put it into words back then, but it seemed that they should have been running a finishing school for young girls. Nobody would expect men to lead packs of brownies. Why the opposite?

I did, however, take boy scouting seriously, and did well. It was a blessing in my life. The above was only written in case it might reveal a way to better the earlier years, not as an insult.

One last thing about winter camporees. All parents hate having sick kids. Popular myth has it that freezing your ankles off will make you sick. Kids believe it and so do parents. I wouldn't have gone to a winter camporee 50 years ago. If I had wanted to, my parents would have balked. Loooong tradition.........W inter is for school, summer is for scouts and camping.......You wanna buck tradition, be my guest, but don't expect a lot of company. Hard truths, spoken with a genuine desire to help....Joe
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 15, 2013, 06:40:51 AM
I'll give you a bit of "for what it's worth" which may well be nothing. I loved being a boy scout, but almost didn't join because of the cub scout experience. Back towards the middle of the last century, cub scouts were placed in the tender care of "den mothers" and got the living crap mothered out of them, like they didn't have enough of that at home. Projects were likely to involve yarn, blunt nosed scissors, finger painting, something that resembled cheerleading with nothing and nobody to cheer about or for.

Tipical den mothers were always at the top of the local social strata, and felt that their charges should be cognisant of that and offer due reverance to them as well as their spoiled offspring. I couldn't have put it into words back then, but it seemed that they should have been running a finishing school for young girls. Nobody would expect men to lead packs of brownies. Why the opposite?


I very much agree with this. I was only a Cub Scout a couple years.  The reason it was for only 2 years had much to do with what you said.  We made pretty bars of soap for or mom's and other dainties to decorate our bathrooms for our mom's.  I didn't want that and quit.  (Although, I do remember visiting the local police department and seeing the armory - tons of M-16s.  :) )

When my son started with the Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub, I saw the same thing happening.  He was making masquerade ball masks and other things that a typical boy didn't want to do.  I told him to suffer through it and I said that I would be a leader and make things better.  The first thing that I did was start to incorporate the handbook requirements into the Den Meetings.  This is partly designed to be done at home with parents help, however, the parents for the most part weren't doing their part which is a big part in Cub Scouts (NOT BOY SCOUTING).  So now I had the Cubs advancing in their rank.  For activities, I would incorporate outdoor skills that they had signed up in the Cub Scouts to do.  I had a great Den and a great Pack. 

When I got to the Boy Scout level and was asked to become the Scoutmaster, I said yes if our committee would incorporate a rule.  The rule was that parents were welcome at the meetings but that they had to sit at the parent table in the corner of the gym away from the Scouts' meeting area.  Only Trained Scoutmasters and ASMs were allowed at the scout meetings (no Committee members etc were allowed unless they were requested as a guest).  This was to keep the meddling moms and others from doing the scouts work for the boys and answering questions for them.  They still tried but after the 3 strike rule they had to leave by themselves or leave taking their son's.  To say the least, the moms left the scouts alone and the boys turned into young men rather quickly.

I found that making some rules to stop interfering and sticking by them really made the Troop Unit a lot stronger and we got the boys following the Patrol Method in no time.  There comes a time (it's when the boy's get to boy scouts) that the parents (particularly the moms need to cut the apron strings and let a boy become a young man.)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on February 15, 2013, 07:58:12 AM
Funny, I had the opposite experience.  I'm sure it was atypical.  I loved Cubs and my Mom was the den leader.  She has never in over 50 years been accused of babying her 3 boys. lol.  We folowed the book as well as I can remember.  We also built model boats with scrap wood with rubberband paddles and sails.  We got pretty good at it and sailed them in the park pond.  Mom and Dad were into horses and we had alot of leather working tools.  We designed our own bags and made them out of paper to see if they would work.  A friend would come over to cut the leather and drill the holes.  We'ld sew them together and proudly sported those projects.  We went on field trips to the Natural History museum and New Salem (a recreated 1800's village).  We went on campouts and my Mom would cajole my Grandpa to come out and ID birds by their songs and we learned how to use ID guidebooks.

I really looked forward to that cool uniform of the boyscouts.  But the troop was all Catholic and I was odd man out.  Never felt like I belonged.  It wasn't until I joined the service that I regained my appreciation of the discipline of a uniform.

Boy, I sure could've used some discipline in the early seventies.  LOL.

Oddly enough I kept all my handbooks for years and learned from them.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Nelson on February 15, 2013, 08:43:01 AM
I will say this about the Cub Scouts, the requirements they present you with suck (for a lack of a better word). They are very much arts and craft oriented. However, I use the requirements and electives as a base suggested guide. I by no means follow them to the letter. I will go back to what I said in a previous post, you get out what you put in. My boys, which are Cub Scouts went camping, and I mean camping without any electricity, plumbing, etc. as Tigers (six year olds). On the trips we went hiking, fishing and every archery. The same is on the agenda for an upcoming trip. Another example, one of the requirements this year was about emergency preparedness, the book suggest discussing what to do in case of a fire, stranger scenarios, power outages, etc.  I took it a step further. We dicussed this chapter, with hands on tutorial right after Hurricane Sandy. Us living in one of the hardest hit areas we had plenty of first hand knowledge of what went on and how to deal with it. We went through emergency supplies, first aid, modified "Go Bags", and how to use all of the items contained. They loved every minute of it.

I personally see no reason why Cub Scouts cannot handle more than what is presented to them in the handbooks. I know I teach my boys more than whats in there and they rrespond to it extremely well. Not to beat a dead horse, but the Scouts, especially Cub Scouts, are what the leaders put into it.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 15, 2013, 09:06:16 AM
I personally see no reason why Cub Scouts cannot handle more than what is presented to them in the handbooks. I know I teach my boys more than whats in there and they rrespond to it extremely well. Not to beat a dead horse, but the Scouts, especially Cub Scouts, are what the leaders put into it.

I, totally, agree.  The scouts get out what the leaders put in to it.  I did similar with the E-prep scenarios with kits etc.  The kids loved it. 

Madmax:  Your Cub Scouts sounded like what they should all be like. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 15, 2013, 04:02:06 PM
Tonight at our Troop meeting is Court of Honor.  Our scouts will be handed their rank cards and merit badges in front of their parents and friends.  (They, actually, given their ranks and badges as they earn them but tonight is the formal receiving in a nice semi-formal setting in front of their parents etc.)

It should be a good evening.  :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 19, 2013, 02:30:32 PM
Anything interesting in the scouting world?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on February 19, 2013, 07:34:56 PM
Got a blue n gold coming up followed by a pinewood derby a few weeks later.  Not much else right now over here.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 19, 2013, 09:14:35 PM
I will be going to a handful of Blue and Gold Dinners as a guest from the OA.  The OA youth perform several Arrow of Light Ceremonies and Crossovers for the local packs.  I like the delicious meals.  :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 26, 2013, 06:51:56 AM
I have been assisting the youth with OA (Order of the Arrow) elections at the local troops and, also, transporting costumes etc for the OA ceremonial team (the team that does ceremonies for the cub scouts for their Arrow of Lights and Crossovers).

Any one doing anything interesting?  Any good training courses taken etc?

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 28, 2013, 04:20:02 PM
Does anyone deal with or know of a unit that runs improperly and frustrates the heck out of you?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on March 02, 2013, 04:58:38 AM
Matt the preacher at my church asked me if I could get with the SM. he suggested maybe I'd like to be outings coordinator.  I think we call that voulentold. LOL but I told him I'd like to help out so I'm meeting with him Sunday at the church BBQ. Sounds like he just needs a few bodies that can take over setting up and helping with the camp outs. Told the Padre that's perfect for me.
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: kanukkarhu on March 02, 2013, 06:05:00 AM
Matt the preacher at my church asked me if I could get with the SM. he suggested maybe I'd like to be outings coordinator.  I think we call that voulentold. LOL but I told him I'd like to help out so I'm meeting with him Sunday at the church BBQ. Sounds like he just needs a few bodies that can take over setting up and helping with the camp outs. Told the Padre that's perfect for me.
Gotta watch them preachers - they'll "voluntold" you every time!


Tapatalked from my batphone.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on March 02, 2013, 06:29:26 AM
It always a good thing. Besides I'm not gonna argue with his boss. I need all the fire insurance I can get.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 02, 2013, 08:09:18 AM
Swamp:  I am glad that you are helping out with your local unit.  I know you know your outdoor skills very well.  I have seen around this area that many of the Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters don't know there outdoor skills very well if at all.  This obviously makes it extremely hard to pass these skills on to the scouts.

It appears that I will be hosting a District wide outdoor program to help younger scouts to learn their outdoor skills.  This will enable them to ultimately achieve their ranks up to First Class.  We will be going over everything from knife safety, outdoor cooking, knots and lashings and most, definitely, fire making.  It pains me so much to see kids and adults try to light a fire with thick logs and lighter fluid. 

The program will be similar to what is offered at many boy scout summer camps usually for the younger scouts.  Some places call it Pathfinders or some other similar type name.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SIXFOOTER on March 02, 2013, 08:59:52 AM
Leading the Leaders is a great concept. I teach Blacksmithing to the scouts as part of their Metal Working merit badge and the looks on those kids faces are priceless, give them a red hot sparking piece of steel and show them how to make something with it.
The leadership sux sometimes, to many moms involved where a dad should be is my impression.
Last time out we (the blacksmiths) were there early and set up, the lady that we had been corresponding with somehow neglected to set it up for the kids. They were in the building right next to us making paper airplanes instead of learning how to use a tool.
First time thats happend though, all the other times we have had a bunch of kids willing to get in there and learn. Most of them had never even held a hammer.
Good on you guys/Dads for participating.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on March 02, 2013, 09:18:25 AM
Well I'm sure ill be back I for plenty of advice. I can the woods it's 50 kids in a general location I'm worried about.  ???
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 02, 2013, 09:54:03 AM
Swamp, here is some advise before the outing have a patrol leader meeting.  Tell the patrol leaders what is expected of them and their patrols for the outing including codes of conduct.  Tell them if some reason they can't control the patrol then they should contact the Assistant Scoutmaster.  If the adults let the patrols run by the patrol method, then the boys tend to mature faster and keep things in the patrol running like they should be running.
The Scoutmaster is there to guide (NOT LEAD) and then let the patrol leader to take over and lead the patrol.  if things are going wrong then the Scoutmaster later takes the patrol in the PLC (Patrol Leaders Council) and advises him how things should have been and let him realize the error of his ways and explain how things could be better.  The boy will usually realize that he made a mistake and then will learn from it and teach the patrol not to do things.  Part of learning as a Boy Scout is being allowed to fail.  You must realize that failing in a safe environment (not being criticized but "built up") is a valuable learning experience but once the youth fails he needs to still accomplish what he has set out to do. 

When the scoutmaster can sit back and drink coffee then he has done his job because the boys are running things like they are supposed to be running things and that includes passing on all the scout skills that they have learned, too.

The Patrol Method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. The patrol, not the adults, make most of the decision including electing the patrol leader. The patrol method places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where members can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities through elected representatives.


"  The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the ONLY way.
Unless the patrol method is in operation, you don't really have a Boy Scout troop.  " 
 
 Robert Baden-Powell

"  One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction.  "   
 Robert Baden-Powell, from Are Our Boys Degenerating?, ca. 1918


Note:
Lord Robert Baden-Powell was the founder of the Boy Scout Movement
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on March 02, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just posted there, Matt!  I've been seen both methods tried by different Scoutmasters and unless it's done Baden-Powell's way, it's chaos and bedlam from start to finish!  ALL the work falls upon the Scoutmaster's shoulders and troop failure is the end result if he tries to do it all himself! :-\
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on March 02, 2013, 02:21:27 PM
Great info I'll know more in the next few weeks. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on March 06, 2013, 11:46:50 AM
Deal alert.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/the-scoutweartm-washable-wool-jac-shirt.html
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 06, 2013, 01:25:19 PM
Thanks, Tony.  I, actually, ordered 2 of the green ones for me and my son.  They were not the right sizes.  I had to return them.  They are cut different than the older ones.  They actually fit more like a shirt than the older ones that fit more like a jacket.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on March 17, 2013, 03:17:27 PM
I was just asked to be the new eleven year old leader for our church's troop.  Im stoked!  Paid up my OA lodge dues and bought my new counsel strip n numbers.  Glad to be back in the saddle!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 17, 2013, 05:28:16 PM
Good for you! 
Eleven year olds should be mostly new kids.  (Assuming they didn't cross over earlier from the Cubs with their Arrow-of-lights).  The key is for you to appoint a Troop Guide that reports directly to you.  (A Troop Guide is one of the patrol postions that is appointed by the Scoutmaster).  Just make sure the Troop Guide has his Boy Scout Skill Set down 100%.  He can be taught by you as to what to do at the meetings but he should pass the skills on to the new patrol via the patrol method. 
You can make this a great and memorable time for you and the new scouts!

If you need any advice let me know!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on March 17, 2013, 07:28:47 PM
Thanks brother Matt.  Been, there, done this before, got my Trained patch and then earned it with the boys! ~LOL~
Yes, I am all over the Troop Guide.  I'm not thrilled with a single Scout taking the place of the Senior Patrol concept, but at least I can use that.  I am to play assistant to another ASM who is over ther EYO's.  I'm cool with that.  He is new to the position and to the program.  I've been doing this since I was a Scout...and while I wield the skills, I like not being in charge.  Been there, done that, got the mental baggage.  I have more fun working directly with the boys and advising anyways!
I spoke with my charter org bosses today and let them know how I like to operate and they are fully on board with it.  Not met the other guy yet, but I am told he'll be happy for the help.  Either way, it's about the kids, not my ego, so I don't care. 
I'll be meeting thew other leaders Thursday.  We have a super-troop concept going, so this should be fun...more boys and more leaders...supposed to be four of us total...and it sounds like I'm the only one with experience.  They want to do monthly outdoor activities: that has always been my MO.  It'll get me out too, which I desperately need (mentally and physically!).  I'm considering trying to work in our monthly project challenges into the patrol's program too. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Trekster on March 18, 2013, 08:55:54 AM
My scout troop experienced the same problems after the last scoutmaster left. Nobody would step up, and so they chose the Cub Scout den leader to be the Scoutmaster. Big mistake. He ran the place like a friggin' Brownie troop. No more Scout leadership, no more cool (and tough) hiking trips, no more interesting "Scouty" activities, just walks on local rail-trails and district events with dedicated campsites and lots of cushy camping gear. Nobody wanted to help him lead cause he was such a jealous and protective leader. He even treated the older boys (even my age) like we were half our age.

Needless to say, he and I didn't get along and though I've often applied for membership he somehow always "forgot" to call me back :rolleyes:

If I could make two recommendations, I'd suggest the following courses of action:

Don't hire Den leaders with slow children to run a Boy Scout troop.

and

Don't make you troop into an Eagle Mill. Haha. The unfortunate part of troops like that is that it's so easy to attain Eagle that almost any boy with the money and clout with his parents and leaders can do it. It makes the rest of us who really had to work hard at it look like "less" like Eagles than those juvenile delinquent scouts who got away with murder, were nearly expelled from Scouts, and then somehow "miraculously" passed their review board and made Eagle! Also, because of this problem, being an Eagle Scout doesn't mean half of what it used to, lmao. Employers or colleges won't fall over in awe and take you on based solely on that, if they ever did.

PMZ
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 18, 2013, 09:38:29 AM
Gurthy:  You are correct in saying that the Senior Patrol Leader does not have direct control over the new scout patrol and instead it's the Troop Guide.  But don't forget that the Troop Guide and SPL are in the PLC together and should be on the same page with everything.  Also, don't forget that the new scouts are learning the workings of the patrol method and will become First Class Scouts (hopefully within a year) and move on to the Senior Patrol Leader led patrols.  It takes a dedicated ASM to work with a new scout patrol and I am sure you will do great.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 18, 2013, 09:45:01 AM
Trekster:  I agree that Eagle Mills are horrible.  I feel that under no circumstance should the program be watered down just so a scout can become an Eagle Scout.  I have had to sit down and explain to several scouts (and their families) why I will not endorse "Pathway to Eagle" Merit badge clinics.  It is not right that any scout can go to a weekend or sometimes even a day clinic and finish a merit badge that should take 3 more months and get it completed in a weekend.  I understand that somethings can be done as prerequisites but not when the merit badge blue card was just signed the day before the clinic.

I have seen great Cub Leaders destroy great Boy Scout Troops.  The 2 don't go hand in hand.  It's almost as bad as allowing parent's to interfere (they call it help their kids) at Boy Scout Meetings. 

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 30, 2013, 12:27:11 PM
Any one doing anything fun in the scouts lately?

My son and I are attending the OA Area C-7 Conclave in Sandwhich, IL next month.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on April 05, 2013, 10:14:11 PM
Hopefully taking the eleven-year-olds out next weekend for their first overnight at a district camporee. 

Hey, got a rules question: to my understanding, most any knife is allowed per National rules: folder or fixed blade.  I had another leader argue with me that locking folders are not allowed.
Now that just makes no sense to me at all...it's a safety feature AND they sell the bloomin' things in the Scout Shop.  Any thoughts on that one?  I just want to double check myself.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 13, 2013, 12:59:54 PM
Gurthy a great question.  ;)

National BSA has no rule against any legal knife.  Now that being said, some councils have made rules against certain knives, however, I have never seen any council that has this rule in writing.

Legal knives are allowed to be carried as long as that scout has earned his Totin' Chit.

(Now I say legal only because of switchblades being illegal in many areas).

(As I understand it, this large knife (Rambo knives etc) being not permitted RUMOR, came out when all the scouts thought it was "cool" to carry huge survival knives on their hips like Rambo.  This was not the image scout troops wanted to protray.  So individual units and some councils made the rule against them.)

Here are the rules for the Totin' Chit

This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:

1.Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.
2.Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.
3.Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.
4.Respect all safety rules to protect others.
5.Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and good reason.
6.Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.
The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility.



Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mac on April 14, 2013, 06:55:02 AM
in canada, when i was a leader in the past, (1990s)we never had a "totin chit".
what i did was test all the kids on knife carry while working on the campcraft badge. if they couldn't act safely with them, they never got the priviledge to carry.
i had 4 main rules.
1. don't walk with your knife out. definately no running.
2. always carve away from you. with a partner.
3. no throwing knives.
4. "knives only belong in 2 places. your sheath or your hand."
the way i got around the rambo knife thing, was that the kids tended to 'emulate' the leaders, so encouraged this more by carrying a folder, like a SAK or buck.
when parents asked me about gear in the beginning of the season, i used to give them a list of everything the kids needed. i tried to shun them away from large knives by doing demonstrations on how 'unweildly' they were.
most of the time, it worked.
if i showed up at camp boiling water in an old coffee can, by the next meet they were all doing the same. it worked great.  :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Trekster on April 14, 2013, 08:57:37 AM
My troop had a policy against sheath knives but it wasn't always followed to a T, haha. It was mostly a council thing, I think, and a couple of the leaders didn't like fixed knives.

Most of our activities were hiking trips so it made sense to not carry heavy tools (except for axes on camping trips) along with us.

PMZ
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on April 14, 2013, 11:04:53 AM
Pretty much all what I was thinking.  I can't find anything stating no lock-blades.

Campout went great.  It was a good first-run for boys who have never been out before.  Happily we had a father who jumped to come with so we would have enough leaders (two-deep).

What is bugging my mind is how many of the people who I met tell me I have to go get trained...when I am wearing the trained patch even.  I guess thye just assume that since I am new to the unit, I am new to the program. 
Guess I need to go pick up a service star pin ~chuckle~
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 16, 2013, 11:03:17 AM
My youngest son is attending his first Cub Scout function tonight.  He is going to an Invite-a-friend Pack Night at the Pack he is joining at the end of next month.  He is super excited.
 :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on April 16, 2013, 04:56:43 PM
My youngest son is attending his first Cub Scout function tonight.  He is going to an Invite-a-friend Pack Night at the Pack he is joining at the end of next month.  He is super excited.
 :)
I'll bet he is!  Congratulate him for me :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 17, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
Will do!
 ;)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 23, 2013, 12:11:49 PM
My Order of the Arrow (OA) Lodge, Michigamea #110, asked that I make a ceremonial knife for the ceremonial team.  I am excited to do this.   :)

I have the blank drawn up on the steel (O1) and will handle it in antler possibly wrapped in leather.  I plan to make a leather sheath (Indian style with fringe tassels) and some small amount of bead work.

I will post some photos when I am done.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on April 24, 2013, 07:18:30 PM
Very cool Brother Matt.
My son got his Bobcat last night.  We also had four Arrow of Light awards and a cross-over ceremony.  Our local OA lodge (Tu-Cubin-Noonie) does the cross-overs.  It was cool.  I stood with the OA guys (I am too) and as an EYO leader, I got to receive them too. 
Best part is my Dad was there for his grandson's Bobcat.  He is a Webelo leader across town.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 25, 2013, 10:18:26 AM
Tu-Cubin-Noonie = Lodge #508???

I have really been finding a new appreciation for the OA and all of it's symbolism.  There is a lot of deeper meanings to the ceremonies (which can't be discussed here).  The OA really offers a new excitement to scouting.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Trekster on April 25, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
I never got any further than the first level of the OA :( Never found the time to go back and continue on those weekends.

PMZ
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 25, 2013, 11:48:22 AM
It's never too late.  If you contact your local lodge.  You can find out when your next fellowship is and ask to perform the Brotherhood Ceremony.  You will have to pay your dues and if it is not the same lodge as when you grew up, you might have to transfer lodges.

 ;)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 16, 2013, 06:21:55 AM
This weekend my District (Nishnabec it means: True People) is hosting it's spring Camporee.  It is during this time that new prospective members of the Order of the Arrow will be tapped out during the "tap out" ceremony.  My son is on the ceremonial team.  I will try to take a few pictures.

Any one else have a Camporee (or what ever your area calls them) coming up soon?

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on May 16, 2013, 06:14:34 PM
Not that I know of...but we've already done two of three allowed overnighters for 11 year olds.  I miss how we used to do things...it seems Scouting was a lot more aggressive and fun when I was a kid.
We are beginning first aid and then ropes and knots.  I'm digging about for some white glue and food coloring.  First aid gonna be fun...~evil laugh~
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on May 16, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Just checking in. I am active in  my son's troop. He is a life scout at 14. I am a merit badge counselor  , counsel  member and climbing instructor on our counsel wall. We are going to Colorado next month. Not to a scout camp but for some camping and adventure. The troop has a outing just about every month. And I think we do a fair job of letting the boys lead.
As for knives the scoutmaster does not want folders with a blade over 3" . And no fixed blades. Something I stretch from time to time. :D. My son has a small Buck Vantage. I find it a great scout knife. Made well in the U S A and not very expensive. We all k ow how hard scouts can be on gear.
I would like to hear what others find frustrating. One of my peeves is no matter how many times you tell them what  is needed on a camp out something is forgotten, water bottle, fire starter, extra socks.
Almost forgot my son is in O A also.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 16, 2013, 09:03:02 PM
lgm:  I am glad you posted.  My son is a Life Scout, too, and is going to be doing his Eagle Project on May 25.  Make sure your son finishes.  I know it is on him but, definitely, give him urging.

As far as the boys forgeting their equipment, my troop (which is no longer around and was on the smaller side) would have the boys do with out.  As long as it was not going to harm the kids etc.  For example, the biggest thing the kid would forget in our troop was their mess kit.  So they would do with out.  Another scout would always share and the boys would make sure that forgetful scout would bring it next time.  It only took a few outings and the boys seamed to not forget anymore.  Also, I told the boys to keep their gear in the pack that they always use so that the next time they have all their stuff ready.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on May 17, 2013, 04:15:36 PM
My son and I have been talking about what he will do for a eagle project. Finding one is proving harder then I thought.
We just checked he has 23 merit badges. 10 are eagle required. 3 are the historical ones they offered in 2010.
We don't have a huge problem with them forgetting things but it seams it is always the same few boys.
Also we have one boy that is having trouble fitting in. His father goes on most of the outings and even let's him stay in his tent. That is not helping but I think we have stopped that so we will see.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 17, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
They can take some time to find the "right" thing.  My son went through a few ideas before he foudn the "right" thing.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on May 23, 2013, 05:37:18 PM
This just in...
the Boy Scouts of America's vote on Thursday to end its policy banning gay kids and teens from joining the organization while continuing to bar adult gays from serving as Scout leaders
 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 23, 2013, 07:41:54 PM
I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Moe M. on May 24, 2013, 07:36:08 AM
I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 24, 2013, 08:21:06 AM
I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.

I think I agree with everything you said.
I don't think this will be an issue.  As long as the gay people don't try to spread there lifestyle and try to over endorse gayness and on the reverse side of the coin the non-gay people don't preach heterosexual relationships (which they don't do now), I think all will be well.

SCOUTING IS TO PRACTICE SCOUTING AND TO LIVE BY THE SCOUT OATH AND LAW.  There is nothing in the Scout Oath and Law that says anything about sexual orientation.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Moe M. on May 24, 2013, 04:51:06 PM
I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.

I think I agree with everything you said.
I don't think this will be an issue.  As long as the gay people don't try to spread there lifestyle and try to over endorse gayness and on the reverse side of the coin the non-gay people don't preach heterosexual relationships (which they don't do now), I think all will be well.

SCOUTING IS TO PRACTICE SCOUTING AND TO LIVE BY THE SCOUT OATH AND LAW.  There is nothing in the Scout Oath and Law that says anything about sexual orientation.

    Just to introduce a bit of levity while still making a point,  I like this place and I enjoy the friendship and camaraderie of it's members,  but we are not always in agreement on everything,  we don't always see political issues in the same light, and a few of us actually enjoy eating bugs,  while you likely won't ever see me eating bugs,  and rarely see me on the left of any issue,  I'd still share a fire or a pint with any of them gladly,  if we all looked at each other in the same way in this life we would all be much better off and the world would be a much nicer place.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 24, 2013, 09:07:59 PM
Changing the topic for a minute.

Tomorrow my son will be carrying out his Eagle Project.  This is the last requirement toward his Eagle rank award.  He has done a really great job in planning, presenting and preparing for his project.  I've seen him make a few hard mistakes along the way but he has come back and made revisions where needed and most importantly he has learned from the mistakes.

He has decided to make a special firepit for a local park.  The thing is that the firepit will be used solely for the proper retiring of the US Flag.  The Firepit when not in use will be used as a flower planter so my son had to design a method to quickly convert the planter to pit and back again.  He came up with a pretty neat idea.  He is also installing a solar powered flag pole light and cleaning up the existing landscaping that has debris and a look of untidiness.  Then on Monday (Memorial Day) he will lead a Proper Us Flag Retirement Service.

After this is completed, his application goes in and then he waits for his Board of Review.  I am very proud of him.
 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on May 25, 2013, 01:42:00 PM
Sounds like a good project, best of luck to him. Post a pic of it when done.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 25, 2013, 07:32:24 PM
My son completed his Eagle Project today.  He had more help than I thought he would get which was very nice.  He had planned everything thoroughly and for the most part he was able to execute it with out incident.  For those that don't know, a Scout working on his project is supposed to plan, present and execute his project.  During the execution of his project he is to act as a project manager, he needs to direct and explain how to do HIS project.  It is not for the workers to do the project for him the way they think it should be done but again by HIS plan.  As a leader of the project, he is supposed to direct the workers to do the work but there are times when a leader must get his hands dirty too.  It was nice to see my son stop leading and help with some of the grunt work.  The project had one kink.  He had to redesign on the fly the flower planter portion of his project.  I could not believe how fast he did this with out any major problems.  Now he just needs to write up the final report and turn it in to the Advancement Chairman with his Eagle Application.  Then wait for his Board of Review.  I am very proud of my son.

Many pictures were taken but I will show the whole US Flag pole area and a close up of the new firepit.

(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/DSC01996-1_zps7e15b115.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/DSC02006-1_zps47b1283c.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/DSC02020_zps964c9ac0.jpg)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/DSC02017-1_zps26d158d8.jpg)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: crashdive123 on May 26, 2013, 03:51:34 AM
That's fantastic!  Tell him well done from all of us.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on May 26, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Congratulations to your son on his lifetime achievement, Matt!   I love that 'father-son' photo, but I couldn't help but notice that he is not following your lead in selection of hairstyle. ;)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on May 26, 2013, 09:54:57 AM
Thank you, everyone.

Wolfy:  He used to have very short hair but now he says the girls like it longer............. :shrug:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: WI_Woodsman on May 26, 2013, 01:01:11 PM
Very cool!  Taking on responsibility and leadership at such a young age!  Congratulations Chaos family.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Stormstaff on May 28, 2013, 10:22:52 AM
Congrats Brother Matt! Please tell your son that another scouter says congrats.


Asst Scoutmaster for Troop 319, St George, IL
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: PetrifiedWood on May 28, 2013, 12:02:46 PM
Congrats! Looks like it turned out great and people will enjoy it for years to come. You should both be proud! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on June 30, 2013, 10:50:32 AM
Gents;

 Prefaced by, what the heck do I know, I'm just an old Eagle Scout (1976), who spent way too long in Scouting.
I'll go to my grave advocating for the program. Admittedly, during my time, the stars aligned, it was a serendipitous  harmonizing of leaders, parents and kids. We didn't know from the district or council, we had den meetings in my den leaders basement once a week, when we worked on badges, or projects, (do you still make your own sleds for the Klondikes, tweaking them from year to year?), but mostly BONDING as a patrol. I always learned more from the shared adversity, then the good times, but good or bad, we faced it together as a patrol, then as a troop. Troop meetings were once a month, We always had some activity at least once a month, courts of honor as necessary, and participated in 3 council wide events yearly, Trek-o-re, camp-o-re, and Klondike, with competition between patrols for the quickest time and most "gold nuggets".

 Scout leaders, committee members and active parents, are the scouts world, and have the greatest impact on the individual scouts. Strong leaders, and parents that have their head screwed on straight, that will "live" the program, and have the kids best interest at heart, make a world of difference to each and every kid in the troop.

 And yeah, I'm the black sheep that teaches ax , knife (slippie and fixed) (after tote 'n chip), fire making, shelter building, snares/traps, hunting etc...  O:-) We're not just making good responsible citizens, we're training woodsmen. The Oath and Law and Motto, ain't just words to memorize.

 Probably said too much, but this stuff matters, kids are hard pressed to find what this program teaches elsewhere, and to my mind, to their detriment.

Regards, Jim

ETA: best kept secret in my sons troop was that we took a hike where we saw some timber rattlers. If you EVER want to see Fred or Sam again, best not let mom know you hike and camp where there are critters that can cause them harm. (gorgeous snakes) ;)

Yeah, I have the "give back" bug, but folks look at you kind of strange, when you don't have a kid in the troop. :(

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on June 30, 2013, 11:10:17 AM
 :cheers: :hail: :tent:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on June 30, 2013, 11:56:26 AM
Strange, I keep hearing about troops that base their advancement on the old (vintage?) handbooks/field books. Same badges, but you work considerably harder to achieve them 8). How they do this I don't know, but they don't seem to be having issues with recruitment/retention. If scouts/parents have issues, they are free to go to the troop down the road. Seem the farther removed a kid  (or mom and dad for that matter), is from the woods, the more they need the program.

Regards, Jim
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on July 01, 2013, 10:33:58 PM
James:  what you said is a breath of fresh air.
 :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on July 02, 2013, 09:15:35 AM
 :thumbsup:
James:  what you said is a breath of fresh air.
 :)
I agree, Matt!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on July 02, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
Gents;

 Thank you, but it shouldn't be noteworthy at all. Like I said, what the heck do I know? Never been "trained", nor been to school, I just fell in love with the woods while in the program, an will forever be indebted for what it taught me. I take the oath, and law seriously, goofy I know. I think we need to get back to our roots, Baden Powell and all that, but ... Seams like we've lost our moral compass.

Still have my old uniform, handbook and field book, and got a copy of the BSA handbook c 1911. You can sense the changes, but when you read where it all began and where we are today, wow. Scouting as all other entities are a microcosm of society, and if you've looked at society of late... We need this program (old school).

Regards, Jim

ETA: Did you ever see Mike Rowe's (Dirty Jobs) thing on Scouting? Down right inspiring.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on July 09, 2013, 06:34:31 PM
ETA:

Patrol meetings, not den meetings. (gotta keep my progression straight, but den/pack meetings were gtg too :P)

Not only timber rattlers, but northern copperheads, 'yotes/feral dogs (they will tree you) (no wolves that I know of, yet), black bear, and mountain lion, not to mention the injuries/deaths from encounters with rambunctious herbivores. Lions and tigers and bears, indeed.
Truth be told, I wouldn't have it any other way, but I'm always prepared to repel boarders 8).

Regards, Jim

ETA: cogency
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on September 03, 2013, 12:54:51 PM
It's been awhile since I have visited this thread.

As of tonight, I am a Tiger Cub Leader.  I will be running my youngest son's den.  It is fitting, as I helped my oldest son in the same way.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on September 03, 2013, 06:46:44 PM
Wow you just got off the marry - go-round. Now your hopping back on. Like the saying goes " If I knew then what I know now. Have fun.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on September 04, 2013, 08:15:12 PM
Sir;
 Cheers and God speed.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on September 11, 2013, 09:03:23 AM
My oldest son has his Eagle Board of Review tonight.

I don't know who is more excited me or him.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on September 11, 2013, 07:32:29 PM
My oldest son just passed his review for Eagle Scout.
I am very proud.
 :)
(http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/MATTCHAOS296/EagleScoutSon_zps50588356.png)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on September 11, 2013, 09:22:07 PM
As well you should be, Matt!  Congratulations to the whole family as well, because I know the effort & sacrifice it takes on everyone's part to make it happen. :thumbsup:

You look like a PROUD papa and are sporting quite a bit of 'fruit salad' there yourself.....I know what that means, too.  LOTS of work & time devoted to Scouting!  Salutations to you all and be sure to tell your son that an OLD Eagle Scout from Nebraska is also proud of his achievements! 8)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: WoodsWoman on September 12, 2013, 05:23:56 AM
Congratulations , to you Matt and to your son!   What a great achievement! 

WW.
Title: Sv: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Sealegs on September 12, 2013, 09:17:24 AM
I didn't get to be in the scouts as a kid but a cool thing here in Sweden is that the king is actually very involved in and promotes it whenever he can. Always appreciated that about him.

(http://www.kungahuset.se/images/18.7d567ccd12609a2858d80004242/060521-HMK-bes%C3%B6ker-G%C3%A4rdet-n%C3%A4r-scouter-st%C3%A4dar-i-naturen-FREDRIK-SANDBERG-SCANPIX-390x262.jpg)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on September 12, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Thank you!
 :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on October 18, 2013, 11:18:24 AM
Anyone have any scouting news?  Any questions? 

 :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on October 18, 2013, 12:15:12 PM
For the first time since 1910, the Chief Scout of Canada is not the Governor General.
This year Terry Grant was named to the position.
Who's he, you ask? He's better known as Mantracker.
This was part of Scouts Canada's plan to rebrand as a "cool" organization. Extreme mountian biking, zip-lining, etc have combined with the popularity of outdoors "survival" shows and it's becoming cool like it hasn't been since the early sixties.

http://www.scouts.ca/ca/chief-scout

My son did two years of Beavers and just started his first year of Cubs. There are about seven kids from his class at school in the same pack. They are having a blast. Even as Beavers they are camping out and as Cubs they are doing as much outdoors as I did when I was a Scout (Beaver, Cub, Scout and then recieved Chief Scout Award '87 - Canadian version of Eagle Scout, Jr. Leader and then Leader). I've seen what the Scouts at this Church do. Pretty extreme and lots of fun. Funny how parents of my generation around here are more accepting of our children being challenged than say those ten years older. I feel the times they are a changing for the better.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on October 18, 2013, 03:15:47 PM
Several years ago, the British Scout Movement named Bear Grylls as their Chief Scout.  If you notice in some of Bear's Man Vs. Wild shows that he has a large World Scout Crest sewn on his right sleeve of his jackets.  They tried to re-brand scouting as a "cool" organization, too. 

IMHO, the scouting movement is very cool.  The things these youth and kids do is amazing.  They have outdoor opportunities and high adventure opportunities that I never even  thought of when I was kid.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: James Huffaker on November 13, 2013, 12:32:33 PM
Sir:

 You do look like the proud papa, Congrats!

Regards, Jim
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on January 20, 2014, 08:20:01 PM
Tonight at scouts some of the adults were talking about some challenges we put together for the boys one a outing we have next month. Some of the usual with a twist. Like burn through a string but the string is in a block of ice. Have them makes fire using only what we give them. One log and some lint. We are going to start off with a compass course to find the gear & instruction.
Does any one here have ideas we could use?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on January 20, 2014, 08:48:47 PM
lgm....I just did a Google search for Boy Scout compass games and courses and a whole mess of stuff came up.  You might want to try that and see if anything trips your trigger. :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 21, 2014, 05:39:11 AM
Tonight at scouts some of the adults were talking about some challenges we put together for the boys one a outing we have next month. Some of the usual with a twist. Like burn through a string but the string is in a block of ice. Have them makes fire using only what we give them. One log and some lint. We are going to start off with a compass course to find the gear & instruction.
Does any one here have ideas we could use?

I always liked the challenges that involved improvising a solution out of a give set of materials.
An example:
1. Have a pot with a bail sitting on a stump.
2. Tell the kids to put the pot in a box.
3. Restrictions: only one person can move the pot, he can't look at the pot and no one can be closer than ten feet to the pot or box (mark a circle around them with a rope).
4. Given: a long pole, some string, a coathanger, a compass (with a sighting mirror) and three or four other miscellaneous items.
5. All gear is to be in a random pile so that they have to work together to come up with the solution.

A good story helps: That's a bucket of radioactive waste and you have to contain it in that lead lined box in the next 20 minutes. It you look at it, you'll go blind and if you get too close, you'll get radiation poisioning.
That sort of thing...

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MnSportsman on January 21, 2014, 05:51:05 AM
   Hey Yeoman... That's a good one!
:thumbsup:


:)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 21, 2014, 11:51:36 AM
   Hey Yeoman... That's a good one!
:thumbsup:


:)

Another one I like is knot tying in a box.
Get a banana box (or similar) and cut two holes on one side so that the kid can put his hands in the box but not be able to see them. The rope is in the box. The kid picks a piece of paper out of a hat and then has to tie whatever knot is on the paper.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on January 21, 2014, 04:19:03 PM
Yes, good ideas . Thank you wolfy & Yeoman.
This is going to be fun.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 24, 2014, 10:19:13 AM
Kim's Game is a traditional Scouting game based on the novel of the same name.

Have a tray of about 20 small objects (jackknife, match, pencil, marble, coin, ball, gum stick etc) covered with a bandana. Have the Patrol gather round it and uncover it. Give them 20 seconds to look then recover it and have them write down all they remember as individuals and then as a group. Assign points so individual scores and patrol scores can be combined and then patrols can be compared.

An advanced version of this is lining the objects up in a row and make them remember the order as well.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 24, 2014, 10:22:59 AM
One of my favourite games when I was an assistant leader was the group fire.
Depending on how many kids in the Patrol you assign fire lighting duties to each boy.
For example:
1. Prepare tinder
2. Prepare kindling
3. Arrange the fire lay
4. Light the fire (by a pre-determined means)
5. Hang a pot of water

The patrols can compete with the time to boil.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Punty on January 24, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
 I've got a Boy Scout question...
 
   I bought my friend's boys a couple of Mora's for Christmas, thinking they would be great for their Boy Scout outings. I learned afterward that Boy Scouts, at least their troop, does not allow fixed blade knives.

   I find this odd, since I consider fixed blades to be safer than folders. Besides kids use fixed blade knives all the time at the dinner table, and noone worries.

   I would like to ask the thinking and reasoning behind that policy?
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 24, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Punty, I really, really, really wish I could answer that for you but I can't. I've been involved with Scouting since 1979 and they were banned in my area since them. My Scout said what did we need a belt knife for: you can do everything you need to with an axe, bucksaw and jackknife.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on January 24, 2014, 07:27:48 PM
From what I have learned The BSA does not have a rule about fixed blade knives. It is left up to the troop. In our troop it is folder only and no more then a 3" blade at that. But I must confess I have cheated a time or two. >:D
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on January 24, 2014, 07:35:45 PM
That's correct, lgm.......we allow them in our Troop, BUT they are gone if misused!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MnSportsman on January 24, 2014, 10:25:24 PM
      I am not for sure, but awfully close to thinking that Setons book has some games/exercise in it for scouts to do to practice skills & such. Or it may have been Baden-Powells..Not sure.  I will go look in a bit to see if it was his book or another I have downloaded or read online that had them. I remember reading abut them quite some time ago,but can't nail down the author/book right now. Since I can't sleep right now it is something I will do to pass the time & I'll bring it here if I find it, if nothing else for future folks who may read this topic.
 :)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MnSportsman on January 24, 2014, 10:49:56 PM
      Well, both of them had games. Setons 1911 handbook for scouts has a whole chapter of them. Chapter 8, or "Chapter VIII" in the books way of nemrating chapters, is completely games for scouts. Baden-Powell's book has games, but they are interspersed throughout the book & usually at the end of a chapter or "Yarn" as he called chapters in that book.


Here are the links to both for looking at or downloading.:


 Setons 1911 Handbook - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm


Baden Powells Scouting for Boys - http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/yarns00-28.pdf (http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/yarns00-28.pdf)


I hope that might help out you fellers who are still involved in scouting & any others who are interested. Now it is time for me to go off on some other mission to help alleviate this insomnia that seems to be bothering me lately... I think it is the "cabin fever"'s effects , myself...  ;)






{Note - Wolfy had found the Seton book a while ago, & I recently located the Baden-Powell one, so the links are also posted elsewhere in this forum, along with other good  ebook finds. :) }
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Punty on January 27, 2014, 09:49:34 AM
  Being private, the BSA can make whatever rules they like.  I have not yet found a BSA troop that does allow fixed blade knives.

   They can shoot .22 rifles, and use axes, but no Moras.

 ???
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on January 27, 2014, 04:40:51 PM
Thanks for the links Mnsportsmen.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on February 27, 2014, 03:57:32 PM
There is no official rule in the BSA prohibiting fixed blade knives.  Although, there may be a troop policy that the scout will have to follow.  The reason for the straying away from fixed bladed knives in more recent years is due to the movie Rambo in the 80's.  The troops had to do something to keep the scouts from carrying huge "Rambo Knives". 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 03, 2014, 07:28:24 AM
So anyone have any interesting questions, stories or advice etc?????

Anyone earn any awards or their children earning awards?????
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on March 03, 2014, 08:11:18 PM
I have a question.
when a boy leaves scouting for what ever reason what becomes of any moneys left in their account?
This came up at the counsel meeting tonight.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 05, 2014, 12:22:26 PM
This is a very great question.  It comes up alot in scouting.

Technically, any and all monies that a troop/pack collects/raises belongs to the charter organization.  Now this is not well known and over looked across the board, especially, when it comes to individual scout accounts that they earn from fundraising.  (How many charter organizations even know that the scouting equipment that the troop/pack uses even belongs to them, too?)

That being said, if a boy earns money and has money in a scout account, IMHO, it should be given to the boy when he leaves.  This raises the question of profitable incomes and troops/packs say that they will only release the money to another scout unit to be used by the scout in the new unit.  Lately, in my district, we have been suggesting that the burden of profitable income would be on the scout/scout parent in question and alleviate any liability to the troop/pack.
Honestly, do you think the IRS will go after a troop/pack or a scout for probably not too much money?  I, personally, don't think so.

I can answer things in more details and give other examples but that is basically the rules.  Again, a good upstanding troop/pack will give the money to the scout.  After all, it isn't the troops/packs.  Don't let the leaders forget that the Scout Law, one of the points being Honesty.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on March 05, 2014, 04:06:23 PM
In our troop the thinking is any monies from fund raising were raised in the name of the BSA and belong to the troop. If monies came from personal funds the scout / parents can request reimbursement. Now if the scout is going to a different troop all funds would be transfer to that troop. Keep in mind we are not talking about a lot of money most of the time.
I feel their is a deference between a boy dropping out just because and something like his family is relocating. Or he received his Eagle award.
I did not know the chartering organization had a say in it. I knew the equipment was theirs so it makes sense. I will have to bring that up. Thank you for the response.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 07, 2014, 11:45:32 AM
Yes, the Charter Organization has a say, however, most don't know they do ancd most don't know they own the equipment.  They usually find out about this when problems arise.

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on March 07, 2014, 12:31:07 PM
So, I finally bit the bullet and said yes. I'm currently filling out the paperwork and police background check to become a Cub Leader again.

My son did two years in Beavers and started Cubs this past Sep. The Akaila is a middle aged woman who has been having some mobility issues and another leader is in the same boat. They had three young guys assisting but one moved and the other cannot attend all the time. The Group leader has been stepping in to assist but he's well into his '70s and when he found out I'm navy and a former Scout leader he applied the pressure and so here I am.

I'll finish the year with the Cubs but will likely work with Scouts next year depending on my work schedule. I'd rather have my son be able to be involved independently.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on March 07, 2014, 12:37:21 PM
I had a question about BSA. What are the programs and ages there? Are they co-ed?
I'm just curious so I understand your system better in discussions.

In Canada we have:
Beavers 5-7
Cubs 8-10
Scouts 11-14
Venturer Scouts 14-17
Rover Scouts 18-26
All are co-ed.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on March 08, 2014, 10:37:30 AM
In the BSA the Cub Scouts (6-11) and the Boy Scouts (10-18) are for males only (leaders can be females).  However, at 13/14 there is a group called a  Venturing Crew it is co-ed and goes up to the 21st birthday.


Cub Scouts=
Tiger Cubs 6/7
Wolf Cubs 7/8
Bear Cubs 8/9
Webelos (We'll Be Loyal Scouts) 10-11 The Webelo Scout can transition at 10 if they had earned the Arrow Of Light Award.

Boy Scouts=
11 to 18th Birthday

Venturing Crew (Co-ed)=
13 and finished 8th grade or 14


Good luck being a Scout Leader!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on June 26, 2014, 04:53:11 PM
My son just finished his scouting year til Sept. He just made the jump to Boy Scouts, earned his Arrow of Light in March. I was den leader from Wolf thru Webelos 2. I was kinda behind the scenes when he was in Tigers. When he made the jump to Boy Scouts, I took over for Bear den, whose leader wasn't able to continue. The parents asked me to go forward, so I'll be doing both Webelos programs again. Going forward, I know what to do, and what NOT to do.

I'm hoping my den can meet one Saturday this summer. I'd love to start working on Outdoorsman, Naturalist, and Forester. Take them for 1 of our 3 mile hikes. See what trees, plants, animals we can see. Then back to my place, show them how to light a fire (in my pit) and then have them cook a meal. I did this with my son's den, and they wanted to cook hot dogs over the fire. I know, I know...foil pouches, egg in an orange peel, etc.  The boys wanted hot dogs. It was their event. We did hot dogs. A nod to the Girl Scouts here...they DID make s' mores. My daughter just finished her scouting year as well. She was a Junior, and earned her Bronze Award this year. She'll be a cadet next year, and will be going for her Silver Award.

I don't want to rush the summer, but I  AM looking forward to another scouting year in Sept.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on June 26, 2014, 06:36:49 PM
You're serving as a vital link in the chain, mckris........witho ut folks like you, I believe the organization would cease to function.  Thank you for carrying on the tradition! :thumbsup: :cheers:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on June 26, 2014, 07:02:45 PM
I assume you know what troop he will be in.
Here Boy scouts meet all year long. You might not have to wait until the fall for the fun to begin.
on a unrelated note I was nominated into the OA. Now my son has no escape. :rofl:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on June 27, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
You're serving as a vital link in the chain, mckris........witho ut folks like you, I believe the organization would cease to function.  Thank you for carrying on the tradition! :thumbsup: :cheers:

thanks wolfy.  Working with a great bunch of enthusiastic kids certainly makes it that much more enjoyable!!!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on June 27, 2014, 11:25:45 AM
I assume you know what troop he will be in.
Here Boy scouts meet all year long. You might not have to wait until the fall for the fun to begin.
on a unrelated note I was nominated into the OA. Now my son has no escape. :rofl:

he's been in the troop since march. They take july & aug off. Summer camp in july, and I believe we are doing a whitewater rafting trip in aug.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on July 13, 2014, 03:56:35 PM
My son's pack (which I am a weeb leader in) shuts down each summer.  Honestly, I gotta chalk it up to lazy leadership.  My Dad is the weeb leader for a different pack and his program is stellar!
No shutting down there, they run all year, lots of activities and hands on everything.  I am "just an assistant" with no authority to get anything done...but, I have made enough noise to the new committee chair, I think we shall see some changes next year.  We did get a new Webelo leadership team, so I'm excited to see how that goes.
That said, I have worked with my son enough that he has earned his Bear.  When we start back up, I'm going to start working him through Webelo on my own.  For some reason, our pack crams the two-year program into one year (and takes the summer off!)

On the flip side, I was just headhunted from the brand-new 11 year old patrol to work with the older boys who are allowed to do soooo much more!  Im uploading pics of our last outing...just came down yesterday after three days up in the sticks.
Taught them to do a one-stick fire.  Stoked myself that it worked: after dark, rained two days, still raining, dead wood on the ground...one match, done deal!  We did the wilderness survival merit badge last month.  Next month we are staging getting stranded with minimal gear and doing a real-life scenario based "wilderness survival" campout.  our SPL knows, the rest of the boys do not  ~he he he~.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on July 16, 2014, 04:13:52 PM
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/programupdates.aspx

Funny...I'm glad our den breaks for summer. People go on vacation, andthe chuch where we hold our meetigs isn't air conditioned. As a leader, I enjoy the time off so I'm not spending every other minute working on stuff for our den. My daughter's girl scout troop also breaks for the summer. As far as your pack goes, I don't see how they can "cram"  Webelos 1 & 2 into 1 year.
Webelos IS a 2 year program. Your pack is actually going against wht the BSA has set up.

Cubscouts program IS changing next year. I wish I knew what the full changes will be, because my guys will be starting Webelos 2. I hope that everything we do during Webelos 1 has a smooth transition.  From what I understand, the cub Scout program is getting away from the arts & crafts, and focusing more on getting ready for Boy Scouts.


Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Gryphon on July 26, 2014, 08:42:15 PM
Yup, thats been my argument too.
As for the program changes: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/programupdates.aspx
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Bill Hilly on July 27, 2014, 04:16:23 AM
As a former Scout I support your mission to get the youth outside and teach them life skills. Not only do they learn things but they also meet others and make friends. To this day I can contact a few fellas that I was in scouts with.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on August 14, 2014, 08:05:34 PM
As a former Scout I support your mission to get the youth outside and teach them life skills. Not only do they learn things but they also meet others and make friends. To this day I can contact a few fellas that I was in scouts with.

That's awesome...just curious, how long ago were you in scouts, & did you make Eagle?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on August 14, 2014, 08:12:09 PM
FYI...Cub Scouts program IS changing next year, HOWEVER, if your son is doing Webelos 1 this year, the den has the choice to continue with the current book or go to the new program. I am den leader for Webelos 1 this year, and I plan on using the current program when my guys move up to Webelos 2. This is my 2nd time being Webelos leader, so I know what works & more importantly...what didn't.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Bill Hilly on August 18, 2014, 04:39:15 AM
As a former Scout I support your mission to get the youth outside and teach them life skills. Not only do they learn things but they also meet others and make friends. To this day I can contact a few fellas that I was in scouts with.

That's awesome...just curious, how long ago were you in scouts, & did you make Eagle?

Back in the 90's, and no I did not. I got the Arrow Of Light and God And Country medal, but we moved and I never found a new group to join.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on August 20, 2014, 08:03:36 PM
That's too bad. My son earned Arrow of Light last year. Now in Boy Scouts, working for Eagle.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on August 20, 2014, 08:09:31 PM
That's too bad. My son earned Arrow of Light last year. Now in Boy Scouts, working for Eagle.

How old is he and how far along the trail?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Bill Hilly on August 21, 2014, 01:01:55 AM
That's too bad. My son earned Arrow of Light last year. Now in Boy Scouts, working for Eagle.

As far as rank I started as a Cub and was in through Tenderfoot. My Boy Scout Troop was great. I really got my love for camping from them. We camped a ton! I wish I could have found another group. To bad the internet wasn't like it is today!  :)

Awesome to hear about your son, that is very cool!

Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on August 30, 2014, 06:05:03 PM
Thanks. Last few weeks of summer have certainly kept us busy. We resume scouts on Sept 2nd. School Sept 3rd. We're supposed to be doing a camping/whitewater rafting trip in Sept. I'm hoping we do. I could use some time outdoors..and soon.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Bill Hilly on September 02, 2014, 12:44:55 AM
Thanks. Last few weeks of summer have certainly kept us busy. We resume scouts on Sept 2nd. School Sept 3rd. We're supposed to be doing a camping/whitewater rafting trip in Sept. I'm hoping we do. I could use some time outdoors..and soon.

Indeed, I will be doing the BRUSCA48 challenge, and a hiking/backpacking conference in Arkansas in October. I am definitely looking forward to getting out myself!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on October 03, 2014, 04:20:11 AM
Hey guys are any of you canoe councilors? I have been asked by the Pack Leader if I would be willing to get certified so trying to find if ACA or Red Cross class is best.

My 6yr old became a Tiger cub this week and I'm going to help out as much as possible for these guys. I know he won't earn any badges yet but I want to help the older boys now.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on October 25, 2014, 12:59:14 PM
I am not a canoe counselor, sorry. I have done training for jboating & safe swim, but thats the extent of it.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on November 02, 2014, 10:59:00 AM
Kim's Game is a traditional Scouting game based on the novel of the same name.

Have a tray of about 20 small objects (jackknife, match, pencil, marble, coin, ball, gum stick etc) covered with a bandana. Have the Patrol gather round it and uncover it. Give them 20 seconds to look then recover it and have them write down all they remember as individuals and then as a group. Assign points so individual scores and patrol scores can be combined and then patrols can be compared.

An advanced version of this is lining the objects up in a row and make them remember the order as well.

I like Kim's Game.
Thanks for the reminder.
 ;)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on November 02, 2014, 11:00:39 AM
Hey guys are any of you canoe councilors? I have been asked by the Pack Leader if I would be willing to get certified so trying to find if ACA or Red Cross class is best.

My 6yr old became a Tiger cub this week and I'm going to help out as much as possible for these guys. I know he won't earn any badges yet but I want to help the older boys now.

Hi, Swamp how have you been?
To be a councilor (I am assuming a Merit Badge Councilor) you only need an expertise and/or a working knowledge of canoeing.  You should take the BSA's online course "Safety Afloat" and "Safe Swim Defense" to know the BSA's rules.  Then pick up a merit badge Handbook and see what the rules are for the canoe merit badge.  You can find them on here with a quick search: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page (http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page).  Also, there is a short (hour or so) class to take to learn the general rules of becoming a merit badge counselor.

Not to throw a wrench in, but watercraft rules are not the same for Cub Scouts as they are for Boy Scouts.  I'd have to look them up to be sure but I only think Cub Scouts can canoe under Council sponsored events.  So be careful and check the rules so that you are covered by BSA insurance etc. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on December 02, 2014, 03:24:01 PM
Any one have any scouting questions to ask?
Any awards personal or family earned?

Ask away.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on January 14, 2015, 12:11:28 PM
Starting Readyman with my Webelos 1 den tonight. We're making first aid kits, small & compact so they won't take up much space in the backpack. We'll be using medicine bottles to hold everything. Each will hold 3 large band aids (2?3), 3 fingertip band aids, 3 regular band aids, 3 small packets of antibotic ointment,  3 small packets of hydrocortisone cream, 3 alcohol wipes, and 1pair of tweezers. Enough to care for any cuts, scrapes, splinters or thorns on a hike. Fingers crossed that it would ONLY be a cut, scrape, splinter or thorn! I can deal with those...twisted ankles or broken bones, not so much!!!

The first time I took my son camping with his wolf den, we went on a hike. Kid in front of him pulled back vine that had thorns on it & let it go. Hit my kid on the side of his face, leaving a few thorns, especially on his ear lobes. Looked like he had just gotten his ears pierced. Was glad the tweezers were in the first aid kit!!!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mneedham on March 08, 2015, 03:00:22 PM
A few years ago, I was the Cubmaster of my son's pack and when he crossed over, I became the President of a professional organization and haven't been as involved in the troop other than doing some teaching...  As of tomorrow night, I take over as Scoutmaster.  I'm excited, but wish I had more free time to devote.  Scouting rocks!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on March 08, 2015, 04:04:53 PM
I salute your volunteerism in helping the boys......it's a big job, but VERY rewarding! :thumbsup: :hail:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on March 08, 2015, 08:32:18 PM
I salute your volunteerism in helping the boys......it's a big job, but VERY rewarding! :thumbsup: :hail:
Yes it is, I also salute everyone that helps the boys become men.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 17, 2015, 07:55:44 AM
It appears that I will be soon starting an Explorer's Club.  This is similar to the Explorer's Post except that it is for the middle school kids. 
For those that don't know, Explorer's are a part of the Boy Scouts of America and falls under the Learning For Life (LFL) program.  It is coed and in the case of my future explorer's club will be very outdoor skill oriented.  I have 2 daughters that will be joining it.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MATT CHAOS on April 17, 2015, 07:56:58 AM
Anyone or any loved ones or your friends earn any special scouting awards, honors etc?
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on April 17, 2015, 08:57:46 AM
I am very lucky in having the EXCEPTIONAL Scoutmaster that I did when was in Scouts.   We live in a small town of only 1000 people, but he was nominated for, and received, the coveted Silver Beaver Award by his peers.  I never met a man involved in Scouting that deserved it more. :hail:    He's still here and in relatively good health, although his hearing is shot.  We still have conversations occasionally, but both of us have to holler at the top of our lungs in order to make ourselves heard by the other. ??? ???   His son, a fellow Eagle Scout who is now our family doctor and a former Scoutmaster himself, was a young member of our Troop when I was Assistant Scoutmaster.  Tradition and heritage......I treasure it!

                                 :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mneedham on April 18, 2015, 04:29:01 PM
I am very lucky in having the EXCEPTIONAL Scoutmaster that I did when was in Scouts.   We live in a small town of only 1000 people, but he was nominated for, and received, the coveted Silver Beaver Award by his peers.  I never met a man involved in Scouting that deserved it more. :hail:    He's still here and in relatively good health, although his hearing is shot.  We still have conversations occasionally, but both of us have to holler at the top of our lungs in order to make ourselves heard by the other. ??? ???   His son, a fellow Eagle Scout who is now our family doctor and a former Scoutmaster himself, was a young member of our Troop when I was Assistant Scoutmaster.  Tradition and heritage......I treasure it!

                                 :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp: :camp:

That's awesome Wolfy!  I was present on Thursday night for one of my scout's eagle boards.  I got it, and he is very deserving....
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on April 18, 2015, 05:34:59 PM
Congratulations to your son & to your entire family, for I KNOW it takes sacrifice on everyone's part to get that hard-earned medal hung on the uniform! :cheers:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mckris705 on May 10, 2015, 04:10:09 PM
Another scouting year coming to an end. Our Pack's Blue & Gold is first weekend in June. My den will be Webelos 2 next year, so we have the option of staying with the old program or switching to the new. We are sticking with the old program, as most of the boys have a lot completed. I plan on doing a few hikes with them this summer. Just because the scouting year is finished, doesn't mean we can't keep meeting or advancing. I'm hoping the majority of these guys continues and joins Boy Scouts.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mneedham on July 15, 2015, 05:00:49 PM
Summer camp started on Sunday.  A pic from from the parade field.

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj259/mneedham_photos/IMG_14301_zps1jjywxq1.jpg) (http://s274.photobucket.com/user/mneedham_photos/media/IMG_14301_zps1jjywxq1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on July 15, 2015, 05:22:58 PM
Where is that located exactly......GPS figures would be great!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: mneedham on July 15, 2015, 05:35:49 PM
Where is that located exactly......GPS figures would be great!

I don't know GPS, it is in Northern Rensselaer County, NY.  Poestenkill is the town!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on July 15, 2015, 06:15:09 PM
Thanks! :cheers:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Wilderbeast on September 29, 2015, 04:56:22 PM
I have a special deal for Scout Leaders here:

http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=11787.msg219659#new (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=11787.msg219659#new)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on December 05, 2015, 07:32:33 PM
So I got back from deployment last Fri and came out to a Cub Scout Camp for second and third year Cubs. I had the week off for post deployment leave. This weekend is our Pack's first camp of the year. Ten Cubs last night and twelve tonight. A formal campfire last night. A hike and scavenger hunt and then an active game this morning. A Christmas craft after lunch followed by another hike including tree recognition and tracking. Then they did up tin foil dinners and while they cooked in oven in the camp the kids did fires with PJCBs,  shavings and kindling. Their choice of ignition. Supper followed by a wide game and an informal campfire. The head leader had to leave briefly when he was notified his middle child and another girl had gotten lost on a Scout hike. I got the SAR call out the exact same time his wife called him. I had to stay due to leader/Cub ratio. Almost immediately got the call back the girls had walked out.
They were supposed to do a 4km hike together with no leaders as a badge requirement. They got into the wrong trail and realized they'd gone to far so started back. They began leaving notes in the middle of the trail with rocks to hold them down with their names and direction. They had whistles and were blowing them. When one girl got cold the other gave her a space blanket. When asked why they didn't stay put they said. We weren't lost. We were on the trail headed back the way we came. It just got dark.
The leader was losing his mind and the parents reassured him, no blame. They were okay because of what you taught them.
I love Scouting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on December 05, 2015, 07:37:05 PM
Thanks for the report, Yeoman......sounds like the girls were using their heads.  Given a little more time, they'd have probably solved the problem all by themselves.  I'm sure there were anxious moments for all involved, though!
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 09, 2016, 08:06:22 PM
Sigh. Seven leaders sitting in the kitchen of the cabin with about 30 Cub Scouts out cold on the floor in the hall. Another 20 up in the other cabin. Second night of our Mine Craft themed winter camp. Compass work and trail signs in the morning, tin foil dinners for lunch, armour/pick axe/sword building after lunch, a quest throughout the whole camp property later in the afternoon, sloppy joes for supper and then a wide game and a camp fire. Kids were beat. Leaders are too. I'm off to my tent shortly. Last night was good, -8C but in a -20 bag. Only -4 tonight.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on January 09, 2016, 09:54:09 PM
Sounds about like our bedroom last night.   We leave the windows open and the bedroom sealed off with the heat off in winter and it got down to -10F outside last night.  Those two Hudson Bay blankets felt mighty good and I don't know what the room temperature was, but I could see my breath this morning.   It's supposed to get down to between 15 & 20 below tonite.......might have to close one window. :shrug:

                                                                     :fire2:

It really sounds like you're keeping everyone busy and having a good time, to boot.  Good on you guys! :hail:
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on January 10, 2016, 05:50:45 AM
Thanks Wolfy,
Kids are up and mostly packed. We just set up the tables for breakfast. Parents will start pickup in a bit over an hour. Man, did I ever perk good coffee today.

I'd sleep in the cold like you Wolfy, but there's that damned getting up in the morning that I'd hate.

Edited to add:
At home now, showered and changes and laying out gear to air and dry.
Parents started arriving at 9:45 and only leaders kids left by 10:30. Clean up was a snap. We have a full garbage bag full of lost and found items: dishes, mitts, hats, scarves, gloves, snow pants etc. The first Pack will display L&F on Wed, we'll display unclaimed on Thur and the other Pack should claim the remaining.
      Trick for leaders is to have a packing session for parents before their kids go to camp. Biggest thing to teach them is to have their kids pack their packs (with supervision). That way, the kid knows what they brought, where it is and where it gets put back. Unfortunately, we dropped the ball last week and didn't do this. Sigh, I hate relearning lessons that I should already know.
   Kids were really happy during the hot wash up at the end though.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: SwampHanger on January 11, 2016, 02:02:19 PM
Well I haven't been on the site much as I wound up a Cub Scout master this year. It has been a ton of learning but a ton of fun. We just spent the past weekend at Scout Days at Daytona Speedway. Just wanted to let any of you that may have thought about doing this event to try and go. It was a great time and the Cubs loved it. They got to sign the finish line,meet drivers,visit the garages,and the pits. Not to mention watch some cars doing training laps in preparation for the Rolex 24. If ya'll have any questions let me know.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on January 12, 2016, 02:22:25 PM
Provide and protect J.  Salute.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yellowyak on January 12, 2016, 05:18:29 PM
Well I haven't been on the site much as I wound up a Cub Scout master this year. It has been a ton of learning but a ton of fun. We just spent the past weekend at Scout Days at Daytona Speedway. Just wanted to let any of you that may have thought about doing this event to try and go. It was a great time and the Cubs loved it. They got to sign the finish line,meet drivers,visit the garages,and the pits. Not to mention watch some cars doing training laps in preparation for the Rolex 24. If ya'll have any questions let me know.

Great to hear from you again Jimmy. Glad to hear that you and little man are having a great time with the scouts. Never been to Daytona Speedway, sound like a hoot.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: imnukensc on January 12, 2016, 06:43:58 PM
Sounds about like our bedroom last night.   We leave the windows open and the bedroom sealed off with the heat off in winter and it got down to -10F outside last night.  Those two Hudson Bay blankets felt mighty good and I don't know what the room temperature was, but I could see my breath this morning.   It's supposed to get down to between 15 & 20 below tonite.......might have to close one window. :shrug:



I'd sleep in the cold like you Wolfy, but there's that damned getting up in the morning that I'd hate.


Good Lord!  What about just getting up to pee in the middle of the night?  At my age that is a given........not a maybe.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on January 12, 2016, 07:38:04 PM
Sounds about like our bedroom last night.   We leave the windows open and the bedroom sealed off with the heat off in winter and it got down to -10F outside last night.  Those two Hudson Bay blankets felt mighty good and I don't know what the room temperature was, but I could see my breath this morning.   It's supposed to get down to between 15 & 20 below tonite.......might have to close one window. :shrug:



I'd sleep in the cold like you Wolfy, but there's that damned getting up in the morning that I'd hate.


Good Lord!  What about just getting up to pee in the middle of the night?  At my age that is a given........not a maybe.

Well, yeah, me too, but it feels SOOOOO good to crawl under those warm blankies when I get back! :tent:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wsdstan on January 12, 2016, 10:36:34 PM
I like to sleep in a cold area but not a see my breath cold area.   :camp:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on February 22, 2016, 08:10:40 PM
My son had his BOR a few weeks ago. Got the paperwork tonight.
It is official. my son is a EAGLE SCOUT
 :banana: :banana:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on February 22, 2016, 08:29:25 PM
Another addition to our fold!   Give him my hearty congratulations, lgm. :cheers:     The whole family deserves a pat on the back for an accomplishment like that! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Unknown on February 22, 2016, 09:58:26 PM
 :thumbsup: :hail: Well done young sir! Congrats lgm
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on February 23, 2016, 04:22:28 PM
Thank you, I think I am more releaved then he is. He can't yet see how important it is.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on February 23, 2016, 04:45:55 PM
You need to tell him that it IS a big deal!  He is among only 6% of the young men who join the BSA that have the dedication it takes to earn that medal.  :hail:        It's a VERY BIG DEAL!  It's an accomplishment that always looks good on a resume and can never be taken away.   In a hiring situation, many employers notice such things.:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on February 23, 2016, 06:58:27 PM
Wolfy, the reasons you listed are examples of why I think it is a big deal. The adults in the troop tell them all the time, but you know kids. We are just a bunch of old guys.
My son is planing to join the military so if I remember right it should get him PFC right out of boot camp.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wsdstan on February 23, 2016, 07:08:41 PM
Congratulations to your son.  I am really happy for him.  It is a big deal and great achievement. 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on April 22, 2016, 12:01:25 PM
Once again, my Ship returns from sea and I'm immediately off to Cub Scout camp. This one is called Cubaree and we'll have 108 boys and girls from six different Packs. I'll be running an orienteering challenge. Youth are between 8-10 so it'll be a simple set bearing, pick land mark and pace off till they find the number marker and then write down the code word on the marker. They'll also have a blank map of the camp to fill in.
Oh, and the big surprise: each Cub will get their own Couglin's baseplate compass.  One of the organizers got them at wholesale price.  He knows a guy who knows a guy.
Picking up my son now, then home to pack and off we go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on April 22, 2016, 02:26:58 PM
Have fun with the rest of the boys, Yeoman. 8)  :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MnSportsman on April 22, 2016, 06:39:31 PM
I don't post in this topic much, but after reading that you are doing an "orienteering" class, I would like to ask you to do a favor to the young fellas that will be attending...


The favor:


 Keep it simple & get them excited about using a compass & a map,and learning how to keep their head & use simple tools they have available to them to navigate.


  Even just how to use an analog watch to find simple N-S headings. How to use the crescent moon & its points to know N-S bearings. Knowing that trees in the N. hemisphere usually have more branches on the South side of the tree where the branches/tree get more sun. How that in most place if you reach a watershed that is flowing like a stream/creek/river.. going down river, that it usually will , even after some time.. lead to a bridge or something that might help orient themselves to human habitation, or if they have a map, help them ID where they are, by the lay of the land..


  Oops.. ran on /long post.. Blah blah.. but if ya make them excited about it. they won't forget it.
 ;)


At least so they can know how to get through terrain with confidence. Be it as simple as following a road map through a section of country, or a city, or following a map showing contour lines , etc..


G'luck & I wish ya & them lil fellers well..
 :thumbsup:




  ( My Dad, Uncle "Red", & others, taught me well & got me to where I can pick & know direction without compass, even without light, from back when I was a young lad, simply by getting me used to "always" know how I turn & mentally remember my orientation as I made the turns once I remember where I was to start with... Even when blindfolded. Neat trick. I am lucky.. not many have that type of thing taught to them. :) Maybe you should see how them lil fellers do if they try it... The younger the better... turns into an "instinct". ;) )


 
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 06, 2016, 09:22:11 AM
So this is odd/weird/frustrating. Something happened between two kids at camp on the weekend. Their senior leader did all the right stuff: called parents, sent kids home, took statements, reported to Group and District Commissioners etc. She was informed last night she's suspended from being a leader until the investigation is done.  Apparently, she left out two steps (that aren't in the leader's handbook). These rules were meant to protect kids, not the bureaucracy!
I'm still pissed.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on May 06, 2016, 09:31:55 AM
Oh, brother......what next? :doh:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 06, 2016, 11:41:21 AM
Yeah. Problem comes from Scouts Canada covering up abuse by leaders back in the '70s-'90s. That led to law suits which led to liability insurance which culminates now in $200 national registration fees which go only to supporting the bureaucracy of the organization and paying insurance. The kids get nothing directly for the money.
Sigh, I shouldn't post while upset.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 12, 2016, 09:22:20 PM
I've been at Scout camps the last two of three weekends and am at camp next weekend and the weekend after. That'll be four Scout Camps in six weeks.
The week before last the leaders were sitting around the fire having some snacks after the Cub Scouts had gone to bed. The Venturer Scouts showed up (did I mention the snacks). Anyway, nice kids, they'd done well running a project for us during the day and we sometimes need youth around us to keep from getting too carried away.
Anyway, during the conversation, between laughs, on of the kids turns to me and asks, jokingly, would you be interested in being our advisor? Kid really didn't know me from a hole in a tent, but he was shocked when all the leaders laughed and then he about fell in the fire when I said yes.
See, I became a Cub Sciut leader a few years ago when there was a leadership issue with my son's Pack. He'll start Scours in Sep and I'd like him to be able to do that without me. I committed to Cubs for one more year but stated my intention was to move to an older age group, likely Venturers.
Anyway, the Venturers themselves have sped up my plans for me.
It's not like being a Sciut leader at all. I just make sure they create a quality program for themselves and stop them from do anything illegal.
Should be a good time. Two hats for a year I guess.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on May 12, 2016, 10:15:18 PM
Good for you, man! :thumbsup:    I'm not familiar with the Scouting program up there.....what age group do the Venturers fall into? :shrug:
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 13, 2016, 06:55:13 AM
Beavers are 5-7, Cubs 8-10, Scouts 11-14, Venturers 14-18 and Rovers 18-26. There are two new programs called Scoutsabout 5-10 and Extreme Adventure 14-17. All groups are fully co-ed.

Beavers is like daycare with cabin camping. They scare me.

Cubs is getting some basics - hiking, putting up tents, camping out in controlled areas, the program is structured.

Scouts is what it is everywhere else. Tent and lean-to caming, packing their own gear, cooking their own meals etc.

Venturers run their own program; they may be outdoors oriented and specialize in an activity or they might be service oriented and do a lot of volunteer work in the community or specialize in a skill like first aid or SAR or leadership.

Rovers are specifically service oriented: camp cooks, camp organizers, first aid or security providers, foreign development volunteers etc. One Rover Crew in Alberta apparently is made up of journalism students and they produce a newspaper.

I don't know anything about the last two programs.

Scouts Canada is bringing in a new methodology starting in Sept. It's called The Canadian Path. The idea is for the programs to be more youth led, outdoors focused, and better comparability and interaction between the sections. It seems to me like they're returning to Baden Powell's intention. I can only assume that there must have been a significant divergence from the original intention if they actually had to recreate the system to include outdoors activities.

As well, they're scrapping the old badge system. Each age section had their own and there were a ridiculous number. Now there will be about a dozen badges with 9 levels to each badge. Kids will start them at 5 or 6 and can progress till they are an adult.
For example, the camping badge may start at level 1 with a Beaver who can identify his own sleeping bag. The badge would increase in complexity until a Rover earns her level 9 by organizing and running a one week camp for 200 Cubs.
This part of the new program, we are excited about.
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 21, 2016, 08:10:46 AM
120+ Cub Scouts camping in the defensive ditch at the Halifax Citadel National Historic Site.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_Hill_(Fort_George)

They'll have the run of the whole fortress for the long weekend. Coincidentally, the Halifax Bluenose Race Weekend is happening today and tomorrow. Lots of the Cubs are running the Kids 4K race starting in a few minutes. The start and finish lines are at the bottom of the Citadel, so the Cubs will finish the race then walk up to the Fort.



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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on May 22, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
Well, it started out well yesterday and the kids had a ball today, until about supper time when the rain and wind picked up. Down in the dry moat, the wind funnelled. My group called it at 830 or so and all kids gone just after ten. I stayed because we still had lots of gear here and I had signed up for a security shift at 4am. Anyway, I couldn't sleep and got up at 1130ish. Good thing. A garage tent my group tent was responsible for blew out even though we reinforced it before the others left. I was sitting in security with two others and we heard it go. Landed on a guys tent. We were lucky no one was hurt let alone killed. Damn thing was 10x20 with aluminum poles and 12" steel stakes flying everywhere. Only knife I had handy, was my SAK. Thankfully it's sharp cause I was cutting and slashing to get the tarp off. We then did rounds and re-stakes a bunch of tents while the kids slept.
Damn, I tired and amped up at the same time.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: MnSportsman on June 16, 2016, 01:30:24 AM
  This appears to be quite a useful site with many links to check out, plus it has some pretty good downloads. Thought I would share it here in this topic, rather than elsewhere. It is likely worthy of a stand alone by itself topic, but this is a start. Perhaps later it will be made into a stand alone, if there is interest to put it out elsewhere. I will see what you folks think if you check it out & find it worthy. Snoop around it a bit & see what you can find.
 ;)


Anyway,  I hope you folks find it useful.
 :)


http://scoutmastercg.com/ (http://scoutmastercg.com/)
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Saintnick001 on June 20, 2016, 07:50:43 PM
Our Cubmaster got deployed to DC so I've just replaced him. My son's den leader (I'm the assistant den leader) volunteered me and I couldn't say no. I'm incredibly overwhelmed and terrified. Luckily we have some good leadership in our pack to help me on the path.
Incidently, when my oldest son becomes a BS his brother will be CS age. I'm probably going to be in it for like 7 years.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on June 20, 2016, 07:58:31 PM
Won't hurt you a bit! O:-)
Title: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on June 22, 2016, 06:41:17 PM
Saintnick, I stepped up three years ago because of a leadership issue in my son's pack. Another old Scouter took leader and I became assistant and we conned (I mean, recruited) another Dad last year. We got another guy this year and we've become a pretty tight team. All of our boys are going to Scouts in Sept and we're staying with the Pack. I've even stepped into the role of Venturer (14-17yo) Advisor.
I was terrified when I started. I was grateful to and humbled by the Cubs by the end of my first year.
You'll have a learning curve but they'll give you a chance if you give yourself one. Follow their lead at first and then figure out how you can help them grow. Be patient with them and with yourself.
This thread is a good resource. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on May 26, 2017, 03:42:09 PM
I just returned from NCS at Bartle scout reservation in Missouri.
COPE is dope.
Lots of fun, good people.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: hayshaker on June 18, 2017, 07:06:57 PM
are the new boyscouts hndbooks as indepth as the old ones?
I have one from the 1930's and it has more survival info
than the us,army survival manual.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on June 18, 2017, 08:56:01 PM
are the new boyscouts hndbooks as indepth as the old ones?

NO! :pissed:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on October 11, 2017, 04:39:06 PM
http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/?utm_source=Volunteers&utm_campaign=b4cb5503db-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_11&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9777d746fe-b4cb5503db-207074461

Looks like the troops are going to have to buy more tents. :tent:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on October 11, 2017, 08:50:11 PM
Are we going to have official B.S.A. condoms, now? :shrug:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: madmax on October 12, 2017, 04:31:01 AM
And B.S.A. feminine protection.  Merit badge for the bushcraft version.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Orbean on October 12, 2017, 10:33:39 AM
I don't like this and many other recent decisions made by the BSA. It is time to clean house and maybe save an American institution.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: justbill on November 23, 2017, 09:47:21 AM
In '75 I had the opportunity to go to world jamboree in Llillehammer Norway. I discovered that the US is one of a very few countries without co-ed scouting.

The problems everyone keeps foreseeing don't happen elsewhere, so why are we so sure they will happen here? Are we so lacking in self control or common sense?

Neither the patrols nor tent arrangements are co-ed, only the troop/pack is.

We've had co-ed explorer and venturer  units for years. Without problems between the scouts.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on November 23, 2017, 10:21:39 AM
I did not know that, justbill.  Good to know it has worked elsewhere and MAYBE can here, too. :shrug:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Orbean on November 23, 2017, 12:24:37 PM
I don't care what happens in other countries, my concern is what happens here. The girl scouts are not happy with this decision. I understand the girls enjoy the same outdoor activities as boys and many girl scout troops are not outdoor oriented but it seems easier to me to change the focus of individual girl scout troops than to turn the boy scouts upside down. I believe single sex activities for both boys and girls are important for proper development. Not everything needs to be co-ed.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on November 23, 2017, 01:41:43 PM
I feel the same way, but judging from what I hear about falling numbers and overall participation I think the organization, as a whole, is grabbing for straws these days. :'(
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: justbill on November 24, 2017, 06:05:00 AM
When I was a cub scout I wanted activities without girls, they were always around in school and church. Until I was 14 I relished having opportunities girls didn't have. Then I wondered why they were treated so much like they were fragile. They're not any more fragile than boys unless we let or make them be.

No, girls don't typically have the same physique (thankfully) but girls scouts and boy scouts have totally different programs at the national level. Some girls won't want to be in the program boy scouts has. Some boys don't want to. 

If both programs were available as co-ed,  segregated only to the extent necessary,  and operating under a unified national system, the benefits for everyone would far outweigh any drawbacks. If a troop/pack  wants to be co-ed, fine. If a troop/pack wants to be totally one sex, fine. Just offer the same opportunities to everyone.

I think we would all benefit from allowing our youth the chance to be the people they are meant to be, not force them to be what society has always said they 'should ' be.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Moe M. on November 24, 2017, 07:46:22 AM
I feel the same way, but judging from what I hear about falling numbers and overall participation I think the organization, as a whole, is grabbing for straws these days. :'(

  For what it's worth I agree with you and Orbean,  but just to make it clear that I'm not a sexist,  not long after I became a ranking officer on the police force my Chief decided to open our ranks to women officers, most of the patrol officers objected, I on the other hand welcomed the change, there are many places for women in law enforcement especially when it comes to handling cases of domestic complaints, child abuse, and rape cases, and I'm all for equality in the work place.
  That said, I'm more than a bit traditional when it comes to mixing the roles of men and women in our society,  in my opinion there is a definite role for each in the greater scheme of things and screwing with the natural order of life has never worked out the way the more progressive thinkers of this world plan that it would.
  I was in the Boy Scouts, my boys were in Cub Scouts and then Boy Scouts, and I served as a Scout leader for the time that they were active in the organization,  it's Called the Boy Scouts of America for a reason,  the Girl Scouts likewise,  I can see some good out of getting the two organizations together at some Scouting events such as local Scout camps and Jamborees, but I see no benefit for the kids, the troops, or the organization for mingling genders.
  I don't visit this thread very often, the BSA was a great experience in my life,  so when the organization began caving to the whims of certain segments of our society on issues of Political Correctness when it comes to Scouting activities, and on some of the gear that they were restricting it turned me off the organization,  I still believe in Scouting and the plan that the founders of that great organization had envisioned,  but when they started to turn the focus away from building character, respect for right and wrong, through wilderness skills and self reliance, and yes even faith in a higher being, they lost my respect as an organization and joined the ranks of that segment of our society who are hell bent on destroying our traditions and culture, and turning our kids and our country into a one size fits all unisex utopia.
  A lot of negative messaging has been given to certain traditional groups that oppose some forms of change in this country,  one that stands out in my mind is the NRA,  IMHO if the BSA would have adopted the same kind of mindset and policy of carrying on the original intent of it's founders and stood up to those of the PC crowd that would see it changed into something it was never intended to be it would have a lot more support than it does now.

  That my view, and I'm sticking to it.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on November 25, 2017, 09:14:40 AM
It's interesting to read the last few posts regarding integration girls into BSA.
I feel like I've fallen through a timewarp of 20 years and that I'm a young Scout Leader again.
Scouts Canada had to change it's policy back in the late '80s or early '90s. I can't remember exactly, but there was a court case or some sort of legal challenge because of the organization's status as a non-profit organization prevented it from discriminating based on sex. The Girl Guides of Canada are organised under a different legal structure (Association perhaps?) and therefore do not have to have equal access.
Anyway, in 1999 our Provincial Council was in the process of getting in step with the national policy and was telling troops that it was a troop-by-troop decision. The Troop Leader (Peter) when I was an Assistant, had been an Assistant back when I was a Scout. He gathered me and the other three Assistants to ask our opinion. They all believed it was for boys etc, etc. Peter agreed with them and then asked me. My answer was simple: Scouting's original intent and primary purpose is to develop good citizens through outdoor education and leadership. How can we train young people to be good citizens without offering them the opportunity to learn and grow with all their peer set? As well, Baden-Powell originally wanted Scouting to be co-ed, but he bowed into his sister's Victorian insistence that they be separate.

 I had to leave the group shortly after that because of the Navy, so I don't know whether my argument made much of a difference, but I know that it was one of the first co-ed Troops in that area and that Peter's own daughter ditched Guides in order to join Scouts.
Twenty-plus years on, and it's almost impossible to convince the youth in Scouting today that it wasn't always co-ed. Most kids ask why? or say, that was dumb. I'd say more than half the leaders I work with now came up in the mixed gender organization.
Does having boys and girls in a Troop cause issues? Yeah. But they aren't big and they aren't hard to deal with. The biggest issue is ensuring that there is the right leadership ratio. Need male and female leaders to go camping with boys and girls. Need at least one of each sex. In fact, I'm not even sure if that's a national requirement, but most Troops follow it.
I attended the Canadian National Jamboree in July of this year. Of the 5,000 youth attending it was almost evenly split boys/girls.
Of the 30 or so Scouts who attended from Taiwan, about 20 were girls. I admit I was a bit surprised by that, but turns out I was just ignorant or their organization.
The Troop I was working with was paired with an American Girl Scout Troop from Maine. They were awesome. The Leader knew her stuff and was well organized and the young ladies were very keen and knowledgeable. The leader envied our system because if they were co-ed, then she'd have access to male leaders. She said over the last thirty years, she would often have shortages of leaders with sound outdoor skills. She'd often get a Mom joining with a daughter and at about the point the Mom learned enough to be useful, the daughter would age out and the Mom would drop too.

My own Venturer Company (15-18 year olds) is now exactly 50/50: four boys, four girls. I don't have a female co-advisor but Venturers pick their advisors so that's up to them.
With teens I am a bit vigilant about them being couples and dating. I stress how they should behave rather than telling them what they're forbidden from doing. They get enough of that from parents and school. Besides, quickest way to get a teen to do something is tell them they can't. 

Whew, long windy post. I really hope I wasn't coming across as preaching. I just wanted to share my experiences and observations from having gone through it already. 
.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Moe M. on November 25, 2017, 11:37:00 AM
 No offense Yeoman,  you haven't fallen into a time warp,  you just heard the opinions of a few people who have perhaps been around this rock longer than you have and still believe that there are different roles in this life for men and for women, that's not to say that women should be held back from doing anything that they want to in their lives,  some of us remember when men supported their families by working outside the home and providing the materialistic needs,  women worked inside the home insuring the structure and well being of her family while seeing to the character and education of her children,  actually it all worked very well for a lot of eras past,
 Today the world has changed, some of the changes have been good, technology has brought new and wonderful advances in medicine, engineering, transportation, it's afforded more time for education and recreation, all great stuff, but we've also experienced changes that haven't been all that good,  we see a universal loss of respect from and towards people, we see ever more broken families, children who no longer enjoy childhood, who can't cope with the pressures of life and responsibility,  there's much more rage and violence in our world today, too much division, too little belief in faith based truths.
 Many of us "old timers" believe that some of these negative changes have been caused over the years by mothers moving out of the home and into the work place, mothers who believe that they are in competition with men and demand to be treated like men instead of being honored as women, mothers and care givers, "back in our day" there was an order to life,  everyone, men, women, and children had a role in that order,  today we as parents just quit bringing up our kids, we gave up our responsibility and gave it over to strangers,  teachers in the schools, life learned on the TV screen and in the streets, but not where life should be learned, in the home,  around the kitchen table, on family picnics, and in church on Sunday mornings and in Sunday school.
 Someone who hasn't experienced that time in our history and only knows what they remember growing up with all the modern appliances, modern automobiles, computers and cell phones have no conception of what I'm talking about or why I and others like me feel saddened by those social and cultural changes that are happening around us that contribute to most of the unhappiness, discord, division, and anger in out society today,  the mixing and blurring the gender roles today is a big part of what we see as a problem, one that will only grow and get worse as people fail to see the unintended consequences of a unisex materialistic world.   
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on November 25, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
Yeoman's reference to Robert Baden-Powell and his association with the scouting movement piqued my curiosity about his beliefs on how the organization should be structured.  I learned some things I didn't know.....for one thing, I have been pronouncing his name incorrectly all my life. :P

Some of you may find this Wiki article to be as insightful as I did......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baden-Powell,_1st_Baron_Baden-Powell
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Moe M. on November 26, 2017, 08:18:09 AM
Yeoman's reference to Robert Baden-Powell and his association with the scouting movement piqued my curiosity about his beliefs on how the organization should be structured.  I learned some things I didn't know.....for one thing, I have been pronouncing his name incorrectly all my life. :P

Some of you may find this Wiki article to be as insightful as I did......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baden-Powell,_1st_Baron_Baden-Powell

  Good stuff Bud,  I read the whole thing and didn't see any suggestion the Powell believed in Co-ed Scouting,  he did (to his credit at the time) encourage young women to enter scouting by initiating the Girl Scouts, but he didn't seem bent on making the Boy Scouts a unisex organization.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: justbill on December 14, 2017, 04:43:33 PM
Triple header last night - THREE Eagle boards of review!
Three new - minted Eagle scouts  :fire1:
Gonna be a looong court of honor in January!
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wolfy on December 14, 2017, 05:09:57 PM
 :banana: :banana: :banana: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :fire1:
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on December 15, 2017, 09:46:47 AM
Triple header last night - THREE Eagle boards of review!
Three new - minted Eagle scouts  :fire1:
Gonna be a looong court of honor in January!
Well done. Congrats to the youth and to all the Leaders who helped them.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: wsdstan on December 15, 2017, 01:38:27 PM
That is terrific.  Puts a smile on my face too.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on December 16, 2017, 06:32:44 AM
We had a ceremony for 2 Eagles last week. One gave my son a mentor pin & the other  gave one to me .
Next week I will be on the board of review for another of our scouts.
Amazing how much they grow up.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Unknown on December 16, 2017, 01:22:13 PM
http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/A2S4NCO&Men.pdf

Good reading.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on December 17, 2017, 04:15:11 PM
We had a ceremony for 2 Eagles last week. One gave my son a mentor pin & the other  gave one to me .
Next week I will be on the board of review for another of our scouts.
Amazing how much they grow up.
Great news. Well done to you too.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: Yeoman on December 17, 2017, 04:40:55 PM
Hey all,
I finished work on Fri night at 6pm and headed out to a Scout preserve for 7pm where I met 5 of our 8 Ventures and another Advisor for their Christmas Camp.
Temperatures ranged from -5 to -10 C (23-14F) over the whole weekend. Winds were N-NW 20-40km/h (14-25mph) with flurries throughout Sat. Cold but no snow so it seemed colder.
Some of us hammocked the first night but even with underquilts and low slung tarps it was uncomfortable. I ended up setting my tent up for last night and did so well, I woke up too warm at about 3am.

The spot we were in has been dreadfully abused the past few years. When we arrived there were numerous live trees cut down for no apparent reason. Rather than scour good dead wood from less disturbed areas nearby, we cleaned up a lot of the mess and I demonstrated to them how to use a wall backed long fire to make the most of sub-par green wood. They paid close attention and are all pretty skillful now at adjusting the gaps and feeding a long fire.

They did bannock on sticks after lunch. It's not my favourite way to do bannock, but they wanted to do it that way. Everyone had pretty good success: even me! We did a lot of work on stove and lanterns and how to use, maintain and maximize their efficiency in the cold. I got shown a lot of new tricks I'd never known before.

We hooked up with another group last night and had a potluck supper. Meatballs, pulled pork, Chinese beef and broccoli, three rice dishes, mashed potatoes, stuffing, quinoa salad, chips, dips, croissants and more. I was very impressed at the cooking skills of all.

We went back to our site and re-stoked the fire, had hot chocolate, roasted cheddar smokies on the fire and did a gift exchange (Swappy Santa, Yankee Santa/Gift Swap, Sneaky Gift Swap, call it what you will). They had a five dollar limit and interestingly enough, I think six of the seven of us gave hiking/camping themed gifts. I wasn't expecting that. haha.
Anyway, we all slept in this morning and had only about 90 minutes to pack up, clean up, ensure the fire was out etc, before their drive showed up.

Anyway, I headed home, unpacked then met my son and his god-mother and we headed out to a U-Cut Christmas tree woodlot and got our tree. It amazed me that in the last few years he's got from picking the tree, to dragging the tree out, to "helping" me cut the tree to cutting it himself and now the year, picking, cutting the tree efficiently and hauling it out himself. His confidence with axe and saw is coming along well.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: justbill on January 06, 2018, 01:32:38 PM
Eagle court of honor tonight. SEVEN being formally awarded for 2017. I won't get to go, having managed to get the flu, but tremendously proud of each of these young men.
Title: Re: Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.
Post by: lgm on January 08, 2018, 11:01:32 AM
Good job Bill.