Author Topic: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?  (Read 21157 times)

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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2015, 08:52:50 AM »
   I share an article from a newspaper a short while back that had a bit to say about the food/lack of food. It is located here:

http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=10202.0

   It has just a small bit of bearing on the OP & topic subject, but the topic has twisted in the direction of food & clothing effects, so I will add these here.


Here are a few snippets from that article:


---------------------------begin snip---------------------
The end result was a landmark examination of human starvation. The experiment is still consulted and cited by scientists, especially researchers studying eating disorders and the psychological impact of extreme hunger. It's valued for its scientific rigor and because there is nothing else like it.


-----------------------------------------------------------
First, there was a three-month control period when the men received a normal diet of about 3,200 calories a day while researchers tested their strength, endurance, dexterity, hearing, sight, intelligence, personalities and even the potency of their semen. "We were given some test every day of some kind," Sutton said. The tests continued when the six-month semi-starvation period began. But now, the calories were cut almost in half. Instead of bacon, eggs, roast beef, mashed potatoes, gravy and chocolate sundaes, the men were fed twice a day from a monotonous menu believed to be similar to what many Europeans were trying to live on: bread, cabbage, rutabagas, turnips and macaroni.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition to part-time work, the men were required to walk 22 miles a week.
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          The men eventually would would lose about 25 percent of their weight, dropping from an average of about 153 pounds to about 116 pounds. Their hair fell out. Their skin roughened. Their hearts shrank in size, and their pulse rates dropped. They constantly felt cold. They found it uncomfortable to sit on hard surfaces. Some men collapsed during treadmill endurance tests. Oddly, their hearing improved, an apparent confirmation of an old belief that hunger sharpens the senses. But they felt like tired old men, irritated when they saw researchers climb stairs two steps at a time. They became withdrawn, humorless and possessive about their food.  "You not only lose vitality, you lose the camaraderie we had as a group," Peacock said. "It changed our personalities," Sutton said. "We were always apologizing to each other for something we didn't mean to do." They often finished their meals by licking their plates. They began to view normal-weight people as obese. "I'm so hungry I could eat anything, but I'd start on the fat staff first," one test subject wrote. "We had periods of elation. Periods of deep depression. And our difficult traits came to the surface," Sutton said. He remembers that he lost interest in sex. When his girlfriend came to visit him, he took her out to dinner at a nice restaurant in Minneapolis just so he could watch her enjoy it. But when the food came, the girlfriend refused to eat. "At the time, I felt a little upset with her. I paid good money for that meal," Sutton said. Even after the six-month semi-starvation period was over, the men couldn't eat whatever they wanted. They continued to live in the laboratory for a three-month rehabilitation period while the researchers divided them into groups to see how different recovery diets worked. "It was hard. For a year, they couldn't take a mouthful of food that hadn't been measured and weighed," Dorothy Villwock said.The experiment showed that adding vitamins or protein wasn't crucial to recovery. Starving men simply needed to get more calories.
----------------------------------------------------------

The complete results of the study were documented in 1950 in a two-volume, 1,385-page work titled "The Biology of Human Starvation."

-------------------end of snip/continued in article------------------------

   The whole article is interesting,I thought. Maybe some of you will want to read the whole thing.

     Not closely related to PSKs, but this info is in line with the tack this discussion has taken recently.


^Can't get the font to change back^ ???

screw it...it is still legible...

I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2015, 10:27:08 AM »
I recall seeing that article before on another forum.
Interesting then and interesting now.
I've never been able to find results of any rigorous controlled studies on complete starvation based on healthy test subjects.
In any way you look at it, whether you eat or don't eat if you are stranded somewhere, the experience is going to suck.
As for me, my planning strategy is geared more towards not getting lost and having an emergency notification plan in place in case I am over due.

"Learning: a continuation of the failure process"

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2015, 10:46:09 AM »
  Yeoman,
    You may have seen it before on another forum, but I can only say that I read the article in the paper that morning & posted it almost immediately to share here at B&B ,so I say that it was here first...  LOL  Just joking... matters not where/who or when... Just jazzing ya a bit for the sake of good spirits.
 :cheers:

 ;D



   Anyway, I am hoping to see more thoughts on folks PSKs with the "what & why" they make/carry them, or not make/carry them. As was said earlier & more than once I think... it is an interesting topic about how folks think, & how they perceive what they might do & what gear they would prioritize for their needs, if placed in a true "survival situation". The thought process behind their choices...  The "why this? & not that.", type of thinking...


   Hoping to see more of that, myself anyway, although the sideline discussions have their merits.
 :D   
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2015, 11:20:44 AM »
The original idea for the Pot and Machete Challenge was LetsRock contemplating what you NEEDED to survive in central FL for a few days...reasonably.  We agreed a blade was necessary.  For obvious reasons.  A metal pot for purifying water was thought to be necessary too.  Yes there are alternatives to be had out there but they might not be found today, or tomorrow, or... and then dehydration has got you.  A pocket fishing kit was added this year, because crafting any kind of fishing system, be it hook and line or trap, takes time and energy.  We found out the hard way.  And you're on the clock out there.  Tick Tock.  We're lucky to have LR who is REALLY good with friction fire.  And he fails sometimes.  My e-kit will always include a fire kit.  Firesteel, piece of hacksaw blade, PJ cotton balls,  and 2 Bics.  Proper clothing after checking the Weather Channel 5 day forecast (which I don't trust much...).

So there's my minimum psk for central FL.  I've done 3 days (Some nights in the 30's) and not used the fire kit several times.  But I got lucky.  I busted it out in NC on a 4 dayer.

Big chopper
Metal pot (I like the Mors pot handles, bail, and size)
Fire kit
Pocket fishing kit
Proper clothing

I can fit a bunch more into the pot.  Energy bars.  E- blanket, small blade for small work, fak, etc.  That's still getting tweaked.

How's that MS?

Blade for central FL?  Between a Bowie/survival type or what Swamphanger has done 2 P&M's and some other camps with and wields with wicked results to wood,  Condor Parang.  Maybe if I mod the tip some...

http://www.themachetestore.com/products/condor-village-parang-machete/
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:29:32 AM by madmax »
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2015, 01:18:42 PM »
Moe......I'm no doctor either, but I prescribe 2 Altoids before bed & call me in the morning.  :lol:

 LOL, I hate those things,  I used to by them and give the candy way just to get the tins,  Sucretts on the other hand I was addicted to,  I had to give them up, it got to the point where my throat was numb non stop.    ;)

  I didn't use the tins for PSK's,  but they made good tins for keeping all kinds of stuff in after they were "Japaned" for period reenacting.
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2015, 06:48:42 PM »

How's that MS?


"Excellent!",  from where I see things!  Thanks!
:thumbsup:


:D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2015, 11:24:53 PM »
Excellent posts in this thread, and I'm just now getting caught up.  To many comments to quote, so I'll summarize.

When my wife and two daughters were trekking in Alaska, our standard rain gear were large, black "Yard Bags". They'd fit over each kid, and their packs. We'd add duct tape gussets at the neck holes to keep them from ripping more.  So I disagree that a garbage bad won't keep you dry.

As for the minimal FAK I carry, I mentioned elsewhere I include an Ace Bandage.  A couple of gauze pads and tape don't do much for a sprained ankle, especially if self-rescue means walking any distance.  Speaking of tape, I have yet to find any "medical" tape that holds as well, or is as waterproof as black electrical tape, with the possible exception of Gorilla Tape -- which, btw, makes a very durable "butterfly" bandage to close a wound.  (Don't ask....)

Which brings me to another point.
Clothing was mentioned.  I have spent more than a couple unexpected nights out wearing nothing but hunting clothes and my AF issue arctic parka.  That parka has keep me warm in Korea, Alaska and Nebraska blizzards, so it was more than adequate to sleep in +20F nights in the mountains.  IMO, the most underrated piece of protective clothing is a good pair of gloves, and mittens are even better.

As for the OP, I think a 3"x4"x1" tin box is a joke if you are talking about actual survival, and doing what needs to be done, besides just hunkering down.
I think what it boils down to, for me, is that I don't carry a PSK as EDC, because I don't go anywhere except on purpose.  And if I know where I'm going, and understand the terrain, weather, and other hazards, I plan accordingly.  That's true whether I'm going for an hour's hike along the river, or driving 75 miles to Town in the winter.
The more I understand, the less I know. Pretty soon I'll understand everything, and know nothing.

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2015, 03:12:20 AM »
  Please correct me if I am wrong, as I do not know for sure, but I am of the opinion that folks like C. Lundin, L.Stroud, etc. do not carry PSKs as a kit, but rely on their skills & knowledge. Mors Kochanski talks of a kit for Boreal forest survival, but it is contained in a 1 gallon( or so) sized pot. D. Canterbury uses a "5 C's" concept & talks much of "kit mentality", but I don't remember ever seeing him mention a "PSK" per se. I don't recall ever reading or seeing anything from R. Hood, or the McPhersons about PSKs either. I could go on to name some others who are considered "wilderness survival instructors" or the like, that don't seem to carry or advocate carrying a PSK. Anyone name one or some that do?


Why do you think this is?




I just brought those thoughts above to the table here, to see what folks might think about that.
 :)


 :sarcasm:    Another thing I have been thinking about regarding this topic that I mentioned before is about the fishing kit & snare things some have in their kits. If you are in a survival situation that you want to get out of, or be rescued. Would you be considering using energy going fishing or setting lines for fishing, & also setting traps to trap & then just be waiting around for someone to show up? If you are waiting for rescue, I can see that type of thinking... I suppose that once you have gathered what you need for fire, shelter & water, you should have plenty of time to fish or trap while you wait.
I am being just a tad bit sarcastic... Of course this all depends on the environment you are in, since it could be cold or hot, wet or dry, whatever. Maybe you are in a hot & dry in day, cold & dry at night desert. Fishing lines are not all that useful. If you are in frozen cold environment, traps "might" be handy, but without a hole in the ice, or access to a river & the dangers of falling in... fishing hooks aren't all that useful. And, fish are fairly lethargic when it comes to eating much of the time in Winter... So, here you are in your survival situation , waiting for rescue, excellent shelter made for the conditions, fire blazing with piles of fuel already processed, and all the potable water you could ever need from utilizing either your little tin, or maybe hot rocks in a basin you made with your poncho/plastic bag, or what have you. All of that done while you wait for rescue. Sure... now you have lots of time to fish & set traps...  OK...

 ;)


   Now on the other hand, if you are going to try to make it out on your own, then you wouldn't have a whole lot of time for fishing or tending snares. You would want to continue your attempt to move on, keeping mind that even though you are traveling, you will still need to stop & make some shelter for the night. Unless you are in an environment that you need not construct any shelter, making the shelter takes some time. That shelter building time really is something to consider...


back to more
 :sarcasm:     You will need to have some water & unless traveling along a waterway, carry some water with ya. What do you plan to use for that? A condom that could puncture or burst at any time? a gallon ziplok? trash bag? All of which lend themselves to get a hole in them with just a jab from something pointy.


I've included a bit more above as you can see. Just for fun...
;)


   I do think that in both the waiting for rescue or the traveling, you lend yourself to the chance of injury, because you are likely not in top form either mentally or physically , due to the situation that actually got you into being without your gear & in a "survival situation" in the first place.


   I am only typing this stuff up for contemplation, & to pass on some thoughts & really am not asking for any answers to the proposed questions. Nor am I really trying to stir the pot or offend, with the implied sarcasm. That was just some "humor" I was trying to add to the topic & see what sort of informative answers I might get. ;) NO offense was meant towards anyone.


   I am only showing how "I" have been thinking about this stuff, not only recently, but over the years. And.... maybe you can see what I meant when I asked for what those of you who make & carry these PSKs think about when you put them together.
 :)


 


  Great topic here & lends itself to some "things to think about", if you care about this stuff & enjoy the possibilities to explore.
Isnt it?
 ;)


Edit: sure...long post.
 ;)

« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 03:35:50 AM by MnSportsman »
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2015, 03:50:10 AM »
   I just thought of some other things to ask about the contents of PSKs.


Things like salt, and electrolyte packets which would help the body...maybe some powdered caffinated coffee, or tea bags for a caffeine boost, and flavoring for crappy tasting water... Wouldn't they be good to have?


   How about carrying an EPRB rather than a PSK to make the rescue easier & faster?


and,
The mountain men & the like carried , "Possibles bags"... were they the old timey PSKs?


  Just some more thoughts to share.
;)


  I will shut up now. Couldn't sleep , so I get up to read & then post strange stuff & such on the internet. Man, I need some more sleep... G'nite...
;)
 LOL
:D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2015, 04:41:42 AM »
In central Fl,  a fishing kit is a practical addition.  You can set a line out and continue to tend fire, forage, etc and check it now and then.  A fish, no matter how small is a boost. IMHO.  You DO have to be very careful not to go in if it's cold. But you'll be at waters edge several times anyway to get water for boiling.  I would think it would be the same in the "Land of Ten Thousand Lakes" when the ice is absent.   ;)

As far as the time factor, we found the need to takes breaks anyway.  Plenty of time to break out the fishing kit and set a line.  Our resources make shelter building pretty straight forward.  Winter in Maine would be another story.  So would be self rescue.  Most daylight would be moving with a short period at the end of the day to set up camp. But you could still set a line out at night. 

TV survival shows come up with VERY unlikely scenarios IMHO.  The extremes would be like Naked an Afraid (How in the world could that happen?) or barefoot BUT with wool socks !?!? on a glacier (c'mon Cody) or finding a dirtbike, helmet, and pack in Death Valley.  Most of writer/experts like you mentioned likely are so used to keeping track of their packs and basic tools (like we keep track of our keys and wallets), a psk is redundant unnecessary weight.



"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Punty

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2015, 07:09:02 AM »
  In the environment MnSportsman mentions, I am going to say something that I suspect a lot of people will find borderline offensive.....

   Water purification is way overrated if you are in an area with rivers and lakes, and remote. If you are in, say...Maine or New Hampshire...you will pretty much find water everywhere, so you probably won't need a bottle or anything.

   If you are in a remote area, with no livestock around, or farms, and the water is running, you can drink it. Sure...there is a small risk, but it is a small one, and if you do happen to get diarrhea....well... you have water all around so you won't get dehydrated, anyway. Generally, it is livestock and fertilizer that contaminates the water with harmful germs. If you have water coming from mountaintops where there are no farms or ranches, and the water has some movement, and not a pond...you're good to go, generally.

  I know because I have been drinking water straight from streams, lakes, and seasonal springs all my life. It never even occured to me I shouldn't until I'd been doing it for 40 years already.

   Don't get me wrong, it's best to filter it if oyu have the means, or boil it, especially if you are in an unfamiliar area...but if there are no ranches or farms around, and you need water, DRINK IT!  We've all had diarrhea at one time or another. It's not going to kill you unless you can't get water.  Best to keep drinking the water and suffer the diarrhea than to die of dehydration for no reason, just because you can't boil or filter the water. And, if the area is remote, you only have to worry about excessive wildlife feces in the water...which is fairly low risk, at least in the northeast.

  If you are on a trail that is common and public, like in the White Mountains or the Appalachian trail....damn sure better filter...because humans are filthy creatures when noone is watching, and that water is almost certainly contaminated.

  Now...go ahead and blaze away, but this is my opinion. 
If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
Ecclesiastes 10:10

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2015, 07:35:34 AM »
I'm amazed this thread is still going on.
I'm more amazed that it hasn?t turned into a crap storm and been closed.
I'm still more amazed at the amount of learning potential contained in this thread.
I for one am learning a lot and I?ve actually given the topic a great deal of thought.

Mentioned above are Kochanski, Lundin, and Hood, arguably three of the most influential or at least well known survival instructors. (In my opinion, they are the most useful resources). Each one has written/filmed extensively about their concepts of a survival kit. It's true that they all eschew or at least, do not endorse PSKs. (The exception to this might be Mr. Hood?s mini-kit; but that's considered just a part of his survival kit).

In summary, each one endorses a cutting tool(s), fire making apparatus, water container, shelter components, and rope/string. They each have slightly different views on these items and each one adds some other gear based on environment, methodology, training, experience etc. Hood in the Sierras for a hiker, Kochanski in the Boreal forest for a pilot or snow mobiler and Cody in the desert for a hiker or adventurer. Three distinct areas of expertise but for a few changes, the kits would be interchangeable.

As for size, Mr. Hood's kit is ideally kept in a satchel; Mors' is in a large pot and Cody's is in a fanny pack. Each is approximately about the same size though and none of them fit in a pocket.

Although I recognize the limitations of a pocket-sized PSK I still normally carry one for a few reasons; none of which have to do with survival per say. For one thing, my GF invested a lot of time in weaving me a paracord pouch for my PSK and I feel not using it would be disrespectful not to mention wasteful; and it's a really cool way to carry a bunch of paracord. Emotional? So be it.
Second, I just plain like the mental exercise of prioritizing items, experimenting with different gear and packing strategies, and finding new options that fit.
Third, I like seeing what is possible with such limiting resources. I find that handicapping myself sharpens skills and forces me to work outside the box. It is virtually impossible to recreate the stress of being lost so creating artificial stressors is the only way to make training more beneficial.

All that being said, I carry fixed blade knife, SAK, lighter, spark stick, compass, whistle, light and small FAK on my person when in the woods. I carry shelter, rope, water carrying/purification methods and a bigger FAK and maybe other tools and food in a bag. The PSK is on my hip.

If I'm doing long distance hiking, I carry the same EDC stuff and the larger FAK but I don't carry the PSK or emergency shelter gear etc, etc, etc.

Sorry for the long reply gang.
"Learning: a continuation of the failure process"

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2015, 07:46:24 AM »
  In the environment MnSportsman mentions, I am going to say something that I suspect a lot of people will find borderline offensive.....

     I know because I have been drinking water straight from streams, lakes, and seasonal springs all my life. It never even occured to me I shouldn't until I'd been doing it for 40 years already.[...]
  Now...go ahead and blaze away, but this is my opinion.

You'll get no arguments here. I routinely stress to my SAR Team during training, that if you are lost and have no way of purifying or disinfecting water (my GF recently explained to me the difference between the two), then you should still drink to prevent dehydration.
I posted something about this on another thread recently. (can't find it). The incubation time for water born parasites and bateria varies a lot, but in general you'll probably be rescued before you get sick. Don't drink and you'll be dead in 3-5 days or so regardless.
"Learning: a continuation of the failure process"

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2015, 08:24:45 AM »
I agree about drinking wild water in certain places.  I have drank water out of fresh water springs that dot central FL and from streams at altitude.

 But giardia and crypto are hardly "just" diarrhea.  It's completely unpredictable and URGENT (like sometimes you don't have time to drop your drawers right where you stand.).  Watery and gassy.  Very nasty.  I've had giardia and my brother lost 25 lbs of muscle in a very short time after contracting  crypto after swimming in his local swimming hole (which he'ld been doing for 15 years) on Kauai.  He had very little body fat going in.  Looked like Skeletor before the meds started clearing it up.  Both of us were at home when it started and I don't ever want to have a repeat visit by those lil' buggers, even with soft TP and a porcelain throne, ...ever.

Got pick your source carefully.   :)
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2015, 08:34:53 AM »
Madmax,
You do make a good point. One of my Navy buddies got some sort of "Beaver Fever" from swimming in a lake on Vancouver Island.
He was in and out of hospital for almost six months, lost over 30 pounds and almost died twice.
As stated above, if you can disinfect/purify, do so. To not, is risky.
Individuals will have to make their own responsible choices if the time ever comes that they have to choose between uncertain water and possible dehydration.
"Learning: a continuation of the failure process"

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2015, 08:44:02 AM »
   I just thought of some other things to ask about the contents of PSKs.


Things like salt, and electrolyte packets which would help the body...maybe some powdered caffinated coffee, or tea bags for a caffeine boost, and flavoring for crappy tasting water... Wouldn't they be good to have?


   How about carrying an EPRB rather than a PSK to make the rescue easier & faster?


and,
The mountain men & the like carried , "Possibles bags"... were they the old timey PSKs?


  Just some more thoughts to share.
;)


  I will shut up now. Couldn't sleep , so I get up to read & then post strange stuff & such on the internet. Man, I need some more sleep... G'nite...
;)
 LOL
:D

  Just a few thoughts on your longer post JB,  I think it's easy to confuse what we see in reality shows with what happens in real life, you mentioned "experts" like Cody Lundin, Les Stroud, and Dave Canterbury, suggesting that they don't carry PSK's or packs with them but rely mostly on their outdoor survival skills and the resources that nature affords while doing their thing in the bush.
  I think that's what we see on TV when they are dropped into the wild in situations that the average person might view as hopeless,  not everyone that tunes in on these shows is an outdoorsman, and not all of those are deeply involved with bushcraft type activities,  so it's easy to think that that's the way they do things all the time.
 I can't speak to all of the survival specialist out there,  but I have seen Les Stroud in videos where he's out in the bush doing other things besides barely surviving,  for example in his short series of searching for Bigfoot and his series where he's out on camping and canoeing adventures with his son,  he carried a backpack with all the gear one would need for a week long backpacking or canoe trip,  and I know that he has advocated the carrying of an emergency kit whenever one is going to be in new areas or in a place where weather or an injury might put one in harms way.
 As for Cody Lundin,  although he has written several books, Cody seems to be a private type of person who doesn't make videos or use public media in the same way as others so it's harder to read him.
 In spite of some of the views expoused by his critics,  I happen to like Dave Canterbury's style,  his common man, down to earth, hillbilly way of approaching the outdoors and self reliance is something I can relate to more with him than some of the others.
 Again, as with Les Stroud,  I know that DC is a big proponent of EDC's and PSK's,  when I first noticed Dave's videos about five years ago, one of the first videos that I watched was on his EDC kit,  which was a 'binner that had a variety of stuff like a small hank of paracord, a SAK, a ferro rod and piece of hacksaw blade, a whistle, small light, and a few other items on it,  it in turn clipped to your belt loop or belt.
 In later videos I see where he's no longer carrying that set up in favor of a good sized belt pouch in which he carries a fire kit, first aid kit, and a few other small survival items in.
 And one more that you mentioned (actually two) was Ron Hood,  Ron's Hoods Woods was the first web site that I stumbled on when I got my first PC,  Ron's School wasn't very old and he had just married Karen when he started is web site and marketing his videos,  I remember what first drew me to Ron was that in most of his pictures and videos he wore a 18th century hunting frock, being into period trekking at the time that drew my interest as did Ron's teachings.
 I got to know Ron through e-mailings,  I remember one discussion we had on PSK's (not what we called it at the time), though Ron didn't carry a lot of gear with him when he was taking people out for his classes he did carry a few things with him (mostly in his pockets or in a small possibles bag,  these were, a good pocket knife (in addition to his belt knife), a couple of HD black trash bags,  a 35mm film container with strike anywhere matches, and a flint & steel kit, and most often a metal cup such as a Sierra cup,  and though not part of a his "kit" his walking stick was ever present.

 For the sake of this discussion I think it's safe to say that very few people in the know would dispute that having some kind of PSK with you appart from your normal pack and gear is not only a good idea,  but a must if you are going to be alone in an environment where you might be placed in a survival situation, allot of people make the mistake of thinking that they would never be separated from their main pack or gear,  but it can and does happen in some cases such as when a person finds themselves lost and they panic leaving their clothes and gear strewn about their back trail,  or when their canoe tips and the canoe and gear go one way and the paddler goes another.
 Not long ago Mike Barton (Bushcraft Barton's) made a video titled the lost hunter,  in it a very capable and self reliant guy goes out hunting for the day,  he's several miles into his hunting area when he falls and breaks his leg and his shotgun slides down over an embankment to where he can't get it with his injured leg,  it's snowing pretty heavy and he knows he'll never make it back to his car in time to keep from going into hypothermia or shock,  he has his pack and survival gear,  so he tends to his leg with a splint, then gets a fire going and makes a shelter of pine bows enough to keep the snow off of him,  long after dark he hears what might be voices in the woods.
 He decides to go out a little ways to see if he can find the voices or get a bit closer to them, he takes his flashlight and sets out,  he's moving slow because of his leg,  even with his light he can't see very far around him,  he's not more than a couple of hundred yards from his camp when his batteries fail and the light goes out,  now he can't see anything at all and has no idea what direction his camp is in,  at that point the video goes dark and the suggestion is that he died of exposure.
 He had everything he needed to survive the night,  but he made one mistake and was separated from his life saving gear,  stuff happens.
 In this situation,  could a PSK have saved his life,  probably not, but it would have given him a chance better than the one he had at the time.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2015, 09:17:56 AM »
  In the environment MnSportsman mentions, I am going to say something that I suspect a lot of people will find borderline offensive.....

   Water purification is way overrated if you are in an area with rivers and lakes, and remote. If you are in, say...Maine or New Hampshire...you will pretty much find water everywhere, so you probably won't need a bottle or anything.

   If you are in a remote area, with no livestock around, or farms, and the water is running, you can drink it. Sure...there is a small risk, but it is a small one, and if you do happen to get diarrhea....well... you have water all around so you won't get dehydrated, anyway. Generally, it is livestock and fertilizer that contaminates the water with harmful germs. If you have water coming from mountaintops where there are no farms or ranches, and the water has some movement, and not a pond...you're good to go, generally.

  I know because I have been drinking water straight from streams, lakes, and seasonal springs all my life. It never even occured to me I shouldn't until I'd been doing it for 40 years already.

   Don't get me wrong, it's best to filter it if oyu have the means, or boil it, especially if you are in an unfamiliar area...but if there are no ranches or farms around, and you need water, DRINK IT!  We've all had diarrhea at one time or another. It's not going to kill you unless you can't get water.  Best to keep drinking the water and suffer the diarrhea than to die of dehydration for no reason, just because you can't boil or filter the water. And, if the area is remote, you only have to worry about excessive wildlife feces in the water...which is fairly low risk, at least in the northeast.

  If you are on a trail that is common and public, like in the White Mountains or the Appalachian trail....damn sure better filter...because humans are filthy creatures when noone is watching, and that water is almost certainly contaminated.

  Now...go ahead and blaze away, but this is my opinion.

  I agree with most of what you've said,  I've hunted and fished most of New England in my lifetime,  and have stopped and taken a cup full of "clean" water from many a natural spring and fast running streams and never got sick because of it,  our group hunted out of Libby's outcamps in Maine for about ten years, each camp had a nearby spring that we got our water from and chilled our beer and wine in and again never got sick because of.
  But one year one of our group had to be taken to the hospital (two hour trip from our camp) because of bad water,  about five days into our two week hunt he came down with the "GI trots" which soon escalated into a high fever and bad shivering,  it turns out that he drank water out of a fast running stream about a mile from camp that all of us had drank from in past years with no ill effect,  while he was in the hospital recovering the rest of us continued our hunt,  one of the guys hunted in the area of the stream in question and found that a beaver dam had been built about a half mile up stream since the last time we hunted the area,  so while your advice is pretty sound,  you never know when good water can be fouled,  so it's advisable to not drink questionable water unless your situation is dire.
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2015, 09:18:46 AM »
I don't think most of the TV survival gurus would go out completely unprepared like you see in the shows, or using just a PSK if they were going out for a recreational hike or trip. The knowledge to make do without a lot of gear is very important. But the wisdom to bring the gear anyway is important as well.


Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2015, 09:23:32 AM »
I don't think most of the TV survival gurus would go out completely unprepared like you see in the shows, or using just a PSK if they were going out for a recreational hike or trip. The knowledge to make do without a lot of gear is very important. But the wisdom to bring the gear anyway is important as well.

  True that.   :thumbsup:
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2015, 10:19:56 AM »
   In that earlier post, I asked about some "wilderness survival experts" and their view on PSKs & whether they carry them. Yes, I see now after your post Moe, that some have some sort of kit that they advocate, but I have not seen them actually carrying them anywhere. I was not saying they didn't carry a PSK, but that I was of the "opinion" they did not. So, I stand corrected at least for a few of them, if not all.
 :)



   Also in that post, I wrote what I did in a sarcastic type manner to see what effect it might have in getting a response about the "thinking that went into each persons PSK". Also because it was an attempt to be a bit funny about it. That is why I used the fishing hooks when there may be no opportunity to fish, or snares when one may not have the chance to trap. Also the actual feasibility of using a condom for a canteen. ( personally though, I really would not trust my "survival" in the wilds to a "new" condom. Could one work? Sure, but it is not "my" choice.)


   Anyway, I was trying to spur some background info from what folks put into their PSK & why to see if there actually was a difference just based on size of the items, the environment in which they might be used, etc.. I don't know what to call it, but the "thinking" behind the choices. I think that it would be very interesting to see the difference folks have made, due to the environment(AO) that they are in or plan to be in. What works for me in Minn. that has an ave. temp of 12F high/ -11F. low in January, may have me make choices in gear that would be not so good a choice for Madmax in Fla., with a January ave. temp of 59F high/15F low.


   I mentioned much earlier in a post that I do not carry items for what I think is needed in a small container, but have what I think I would need for the basics in a larger belt pouch/ or the like. If I was to go on a canoe trip in the BWCA for example, I would likely do the same, along with my main gear, but with some added items in a tin, or something on my person, in a pocket, just in case of separation from my gear due to a overturned canoe in the water. (Sidenote- I pack my gear in the main pocket of my pack, in dry bags. The pack floats. ;)  Also works like a PFD. ) I do not see the need for those other items on a regular basis when I go out. I also consider what type of season it is for me to deal with. What I might carry in Winter may not be in there in Summer & vice versa or for the other 2 seasons. The Environment dictates & to me, just having a little PSK on every trip is not necessary. Since others seem to think it is necessary, I was hoping to read about some of that background "thinking" I mentioned now more than several times to see what others were thinking. I would find that interesting & perhaps educating.
 :)


   I still would like someone to comment regarding those other things I mentioned about the possible contents of salt,etc., the EPRB option, and what did folks carry before our modern times.... Hopefully there will be some comments regarding that stuff to add even more info to this outstanding topic that has been going so well.
 :thumbsup:


I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2015, 10:52:26 AM »
Yeah, after my solo SUP "adventure", I'm definitely wearing some sort of belt or pfd psk when solo on water.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2015, 11:36:30 AM »
   In that earlier post, I asked about some "wilderness survival experts" and their view on PSKs & whether they carry them. Yes, I see now after your post Moe, that some have some sort of kit that they advocate, but I have not seen them actually carrying them anywhere. I was not saying they didn't carry a PSK, but that I was of the "opinion" they did not. So, I stand corrected at least for a few of them, if not all.
 :)



   Also in that post, I wrote what I did in a sarcastic type manner to see what effect it might have in getting a response about the "thinking that went into each persons PSK". Also because it was an attempt to be a bit funny about it. That is why I used the fishing hooks when there may be no opportunity to fish, or snares when one may not have the chance to trap. Also the actual feasibility of using a condom for a canteen. ( personally though, I really would not trust my "survival" in the wilds to a "new" condom. Could one work? Sure, but it is not "my" choice.)


   Anyway, I was trying to spur some background info from what folks put into their PSK & why to see if there actually was a difference just based on size of the items, the environment in which they might be used, etc.. I don't know what to call it, but the "thinking" behind the choices. I think that it would be very interesting to see the difference folks have made, due to the environment(AO) that they are in or plan to be in. What works for me in Minn. that has an ave. temp of 12F high/ -11F. low in January, may have me make choices in gear that would be not so good a choice for Madmax in Fla., with a January ave. temp of 59F high/15F low.


   I mentioned much earlier in a post that I do not carry items for what I think is needed in a small container, but have what I think I would need for the basics in a larger belt pouch/ or the like. If I was to go on a canoe trip in the BWCA for example, I would likely do the same, along with my main gear, but with some added items in a tin, or something on my person, in a pocket, just in case of separation from my gear due to a overturned canoe in the water. (Sidenote- I pack my gear in the main pocket of my pack, in dry bags. The pack floats. ;)  Also works like a PFD. ) I do not see the need for those other items on a regular basis when I go out. I also consider what type of season it is for me to deal with. What I might carry in Winter may not be in there in Summer & vice versa or for the other 2 seasons. The Environment dictates & to me, just having a little PSK on every trip is not necessary. Since others seem to think it is necessary, I was hoping to read about some of that background "thinking" I mentioned now more than several times to see what others were thinking. I would find that interesting & perhaps educating.
 :)


   I still would like someone to comment regarding those other things I mentioned about the possible contents of salt,etc., the EPRB option, and what did folks carry before our modern times.... Hopefully there will be some comments regarding that stuff to add even more info to this outstanding topic that has been going so well.
 :thumbsup:

  Your question is a good one JB,  but one that begs another long answer and I write too many long winded posts as it is,  I have to admit here that I don't carry a PSK in the general sense,  I do mostly day trips, and not too many of them in winter,  I can't take the cold anymore and I'm not sure footed enough to chance a fall on ice or snow.
  What I carry on most outtings is either a day pack or a good sized game bag,  or if I'm out squirrel hunting I may wear a fanny pack that's big enough to hold a 32 oz. SS guyott water bottle with a nesting cup, a little food and hot drink mix,  small first aid kit and fire kit,  I wear a belt knife and carry a pocket knife, and keep my cell phone in a secure pocket.
 That said,  my wife always knows where I'm going and in most instances I'm usually not more than a 15 or 20 minute slow walk from my truck,  so I have very little fear of getting lost or not being helped if I need it, and I certainly don't need to be concerned with a unexpected over night stay, shelter or emergency fishing or trapping to survive.
 However,  if I'm headed for the big woods for a few days or a week I will pay special attention to survival needs,  I still carry all of the above in my pack,  but I'll add a 5x7 tarp, a reusable safety blanket, either my GB Mini, a large chopper type knife or a good hawk just in case,  here in New England we are blessed with good fishing waters,  lakes, ponds, and streams are just about everywhere, pickerel, bass, yellow perch, and bull heads are abundant,  plenty of drinkable water if you filter or boil it first, so a pocket fishing kit goes into my kit.
 I many areas here small game is scarce but we do have some,  since I have a pack and they don't take a lot of room or weigh very much I choose to carry a few extra large rat traps,  unlike snares they don't take much time to set up and they are about 98% effective,  one good rat trap is better than 10 hand made snare sets in my opinion, and three is better than one.
 Extra large Rat traps are about three bucks each at Home Depot or Lowe's,  I have tested them baited with a smear of peanut butter and have been quite successful catching ground squirrels, chipmonks, grey squirrels, a small rabbit, and believe it or not a ruffled grouse that got his neck broken peckking at piece of buttered cracker,  you just have to be sure to secure the trap so that it can't be dragged off,  but they are strong enough to kill small animals humanely and will hold Rabbit sized animals quite well.

 Anyway, as you can tell,  like most here I'm of the opinion that what ever you can pack in a small tin or hollow handed knife is not going to keep you alive (at least not for long) in a real survival situation where you will be forced to spend a cold night in the woods or a week of being lost with no provisions.
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Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2015, 11:41:38 AM »
oooo oooo.  Rat traps in the prepper supplies! 

Thanks Moe.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2015, 12:36:35 PM »
oooo oooo.  Rat traps in the prepper supplies! 

Thanks Moe.

  Not a problem,  we all have our turns to learn and to teach,  just buy the biggest ones you can find,  I drill a 1/4" hole in one corner of the traps base and tie a 4 foot piece of 60# test wired fishing line to them, then tie a loop in the tag end,  that way you can either tie it to a nearby sappling or stake it down.
  I've tried snares of all kinds, maybe I'm just not good at it, but half the time the bait was gone, the trap sprung and the animal was no where to be found,  other times I would see tracks where critters walked around and sniffed at them but wouldn't take the bait,  but the rat traps worked in nine out of ten cases,  if a small animal touches the bait they're caught.
  If you decide to give them a try, once you have them set gently sprinkle some grass, shredded dead leaves or what ever the natural ground cover has to offer over the bases of the traps,  it hides the biggest part and helps to mask human scent.
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2015, 12:50:44 PM »
oooo oooo.  Rat traps in the prepper supplies! 

Thanks Moe.

   If you decide to give them a try, once you have them set gently sprinkle some grass, shredded dead leaves or what ever the natural ground cover has to offer over the bases of the traps,  it hides the biggest part and helps to mask human scent.


   Latex dishwashing gloves, or exam gloves work & are easily stored  in a gallon ziplock. just be careful on how you remove them so ya don't touch the outside & fresh pine needles or a chunk of fatwood makes a good cover scent.
 ;)


You can even keep them all in your PSK as extra water containers...LOL
 ;D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline wolfy

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2015, 12:51:31 PM »
A GOOD & STRONG rat trap is what you're after here......I've done the same experimenting, Moe.  In my experience of trying to trap our MAGNUM Nebraska squirrels, only the Victor Brand of rat trap will get the job done.......even then, one is not always successful in one's efforts.  The nicest thing about them is they are flat and don't take up much room in your possibles.  A cheap #0 antique Victor long spring or #1 1/2 jump trap from Walmart is an alternative that may give better results, but still doesn't take up much room.....for emergency use only, of course.  You don't want to be breaking any game laws!
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2015, 12:57:49 PM »
  They don't fit in your "pocket" PSK though... Unless you have real big pockets.
 ;)


   & if you have peanut butter for bait, you will likely want to use those little packets, if you can ever find them for your pocket PSK. Or make up some of those "straw tubes". PB is multi purpose too. You can even get "survival chewing gum" out of your hair with it. LOL
;D


 BTW... did ya know that salt can sometimes work in the right conditions for bait? And those little packets fit in the little kit too. Most critters want extra salt & it is multipurpose. Good for humans too, I understand...
 :)


I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline wolfy

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2015, 04:33:06 PM »
  They don't fit in your "pocket" PSK though... Unless you have real big pockets.
 ;)


   



You forgot that I wear bibs, JB.......I've been meaning to bring up the contents of my 'survival bibs'.....it's uncanny the number of items I can transport without even thinkin' about another pouch or bag! 8)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2015, 04:38:23 PM »
  They don't fit in your "pocket" PSK though... Unless you have real big pockets.
 ;)


   



You forgot that I wear bibs, JB.......I've been meaning to bring up the contents of my 'survival bibs'.....it's uncanny the number of items I can transport without even thinkin' about another pouch or bag! 8)


ah... yes... I should have remembered...
;)
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #79 on: February 05, 2015, 04:43:37 PM »
Bibs. Well heck.  Shove Bambi Airstream down the front and you'll be good to go!

 ;D
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline lgm

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2015, 07:34:27 PM »
Hell of a thread. Not much I can add that others have not said better.
A few points I would like to bring up again.
I have never went for the altoids tins but the larger the kit the more likely it will be left behind.
same goes for the knife. Q- what is a "survival" knife? A- the one you have with you.
Long ago I figured out I might like big blades but don't need them often so seldom carry one.
A small good flashlight is worthwhile.
your skill & location dictate what is in your kit.
I think the most important part of any kit is being physically and mentally prepared.
I think I am OK physically, mentally not so sure.
If I were in a "situation" with the stuff I normally have & things went well ( I have water, get a fire, make a shelter and so on)
All would be good.
I have been on edge recently so if things started falling apart not sure how I would do.
 
What a great day to be outside.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2015, 07:37:00 PM »
Don't worry, lgm......I've got your back. 8).  We Nebraska boys have got to stick together! :cheers:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
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Offline lgm

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2015, 07:40:40 PM »
Thank you.
that makes me feel a little better.
 :banana:
What a great day to be outside.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2015, 12:12:07 AM »
We seem to have 50+ of similar ideas, with a few dissenting opinions on minor details.

After some thought, here's where I'm at.
I don't consider the ferro rod on my key chain, the lighter in my pocket, the folder in the same pocket, the sheath knife on my belt with my Leatherman, the hank of cordage in my jacket pocket, or the Ziploc in my hip pocket with a few folds of TP to be a "kit".  It's the crap I carry any time I go out.

To me, a "kit" is a collection of related items all designed for a specific purpose (e.g., "cooking kit").
 
So...21st Century Personal Survival Kit:

Satellite radio phone (cell phone in a pinch)
GPS to tell the people on the other end of the radio/phone your exact coordinates
Personal Locator Beacon (if you happen to be rich, rescuers can find you if you're too messed up to use the first 2)
Minimum of 2 liters of water in addition to your main source of hydration

I could give an anecdote about each of the above, but I'll just lump the first two together.
A friend was up in the mountains cutting firewood (alone...1st mistake). He felled a snag that shaked, and the kick-back caught him, breaking his hip.  He had his cellphone with him (1st good choice) and was able to call home.  All he could tell them was, "I'm up the 494 road south of Helmer Mountain."  That narrowed it down to about 10,000 acres. Fortunately, another buddy knew his favorite wood cutting areas, which led them to his truck parked off the road, about 5 hours after his distress call.  They found him about an hour after dark, where he'd only managed to crawl about 100 yds through the windfalls and underbrush toward his truck, after passing out a couple times from the pain.
The more I understand, the less I know. Pretty soon I'll understand everything, and know nothing.

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2015, 07:21:32 AM »

We seem to have 50+ of similar ideas, with a few dissenting opinions on minor details.

After some thought, here's where I'm at.
I don't consider the ferro rod on my key chain, the lighter in my pocket, the folder in the same pocket, the sheath knife on my belt with my Leatherman, the hank of cordage in my jacket pocket, or the Ziploc in my hip pocket with a few folds of TP to be a "kit".  It's the crap I carry any time I go out.

To me, a "kit" is a collection of related items all designed for a specific purpose (e.g., "cooking kit").
 
So...21st Century Personal Survival Kit:

Satellite radio phone (cell phone in a pinch)
GPS to tell the people on the other end of the radio/phone your exact coordinates
Personal Locator Beacon (if you happen to be rich, rescuers can find you if you're too messed up to use the first 2)
Minimum of 2 liters of water in addition to your main source of hydration

I could give an anecdote about each of the above, but I'll just lump the first two together.
A friend was up in the mountains cutting firewood (alone...1st mistake). He felled a snag that shaked, and the kick-back caught him, breaking his hip.  He had his cellphone with him (1st good choice) and was able to call home.  All he could tell them was, "I'm up the 494 road south of Helmer Mountain."  That narrowed it down to about 10,000 acres. Fortunately, another buddy knew his favorite wood cutting areas, which led them to his truck parked off the road, about 5 hours after his distress call.  They found him about an hour after dark, where he'd only managed to crawl about 100 yds through the windfalls and underbrush toward his truck, after passing out a couple times from the pain.
A 21st Century survival kit certainly makes more sense than a Lofty Wiseman inspired candy tin. We seem to be covering many aspects of it in the Tech in the Wild Thread.
Great observation OP.
I'm surprised no one has come out in defence of the lowly PSK. I was hoping for some alternative input. Maybe those guys are all on the other forum? LOL


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Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2015, 07:33:05 AM »
I just quit another board that I just joined because of all the silly ideas put out.  Well that and I got a warning for posting in the "Ladies Section".   :P 3 warnings and I'ld be banned.  Don't bother guys.  Bye.

Sorry for the small derail. 

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2015, 10:11:07 AM »
I think the allure of the mint tin survival kit is it's something small, cheap and easy to put together from items most people have lying around. It's a way to feel like you are participating and doing something. 

Their "use" isn't so much to help in a real survival situation as it is to be an activity you can do at home when you can't be outdoors.

They are valuable in the sense that they get you thinking about what you would need if you were stranded in the wilderness. I think a personal survival kit is a good thing to have with you whenever you travel outdoors, particularly if you go out of cell phone range. But I don't think a handful of tiny items that will fit into a mint tin will make the difference between living and dying.

If you can survive a night or two out with just a PSK, chances are you were dressed very well for the conditions (and the conditions were favorable), and you would have survived a night or two without the PSK anyway.

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2015, 10:46:29 AM »
I was contemplating a post saying the same thing PW.  I might add the 72 hr e- bag is for comfort basically.  Other than water.  Dressed appropriately and a few items in your pocket, like Old Philosopher talked a little on, and you can do 3 days with water.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Punty

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2015, 10:50:00 AM »
  I agree with the Altoid Tin PSK being a hobby. I could endorse that sort of thing.

  I just wouldn't bet my life on it.
If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
Ecclesiastes 10:10

Offline zammer

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2015, 11:04:20 AM »
Where I had some of the most fun was making up these small psk's with my kids when they were a lot younger, it made them think about what they thought they might need and was fun trying to figure out what we could fit in the small case. In reality we know something is better than nothing but in all honesty a psk is no replacement for full-sized items.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2015, 04:04:43 PM »
I just quit another board that I just joined because of all the silly ideas put out.  Well that and I got a warning for posting in the "Ladies Section".   :P 3 warnings and I'ld be banned.  Don't bother guys.  Bye.

Makes me want to go there and post in the Ladies Section and then tell them I was born a hermaphrodite and see what they say.   :lol: 

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2015, 04:35:07 PM »
Put on your tin foil hat too.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Duece111

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2015, 04:36:46 PM »
Was it the forum i saw u on earlier max?

Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2015, 04:44:55 PM »
No Deuce.  While not B&B by a long shot (Kracs Home), that one seems pretty friendly overall and way different focus than here.  Way different topics.  I'm trying to find my niche there.  If there is one.  Mannlicher has mentioned it several times.  Maybe , maybe not.

pm incoming
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2015, 05:28:50 PM »
I like my tin kits. I have a couple others too. Under any circumstances if you are in distress the contents of a well planned kit would be a comfort. Would I want my life to depend on one...hell no. As posted earlier, I think the research needed to develop a "psk" would be a good thing for anyone interested in helping themselves. The one on the right is a pretty good one. The one on the left is just cool.



I really would prefer my Alice pack full of goodies if I need to survive.

Creek
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Offline madmax

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2015, 05:43:59 PM »
aaaaaahhh.  We still owe BigHat a real overnight with his grenade pouch kit.

summer '15...
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline hunter63

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2015, 05:54:47 PM »
I think these kits are more of a state of mind....a drill....a goal.....An exercise....way to use your head.
 
Think about how to pack the most stuff...that can be useful is a survival situation.....and NOT fall victim to "one more thing -ites.....by limiting the size.
So, no tin...... the closest thing to a Kit is my belt pouch, made from a SAK pouch.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2015, 06:12:12 PM »
H63.......I think the first line of your post says a lot about my attitude toward these little PSKs. 8).     They get you thinking about what would be a necessity to 'survive' a couple of nights out on your own, IF you were dressed properly to begin with.  Equipment necessary to get a fire going & to secure a safe water supply would be paramount in any of them I'd think.  The rest of the stuff you'd need should be part of your everyday dress.....just like you'd pull on your pants before leaving the house, they're ALWAYS there!
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Offline WoodsMarty

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2015, 09:07:45 AM »


this is a great thread, I had to respond, this being my first thread. I am impressed with the attitude here. you all have a handle on being outdoors (people who actually go out vs. keyboard warrior)
I have seen too many posts and videos put out that actually tell people that these things could actually keep them alive and put a little knife or razor in them like that will work in the woods.
I keep the little tins in my knife sheaths, (the ones with pouches - I am a big Becker fan) and it contains sure fire, a bag to transport water (can't sterilize, just carry) and a few pieces of wire and duct tape, carry a fire steel in the pocket and I also put cordage on the sheath.
Without the proper clothing and a good knife and a way to make fire, you are in a tough spot, so carrying the tin alone and betting your life on it - I don't think so. ???

Good thread, glad I found this forum.

Offline Punty

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Re: Pocket PSK's and real survival ?
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2015, 09:22:42 AM »
  What's this? Another Beckerhead on the forum?  You know what they say about Beckerheads, right?

  "The bigger the Becker, the bigger the _ecker."

 >:D >:D

If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
Ecclesiastes 10:10