General Preparedness for the times

[Moe M.]

  These are trying times we find ourselves in, new developments are happening every day it seems in the world of political and economic change, first the pandemic that rocked the world, entrapped people, and ruined many businesses,
over spending by the government of borrowed and made up funny money, coupled with the Green New Deal's attack on the fossil fuel industry has driven inflation through the roof with no slowing in sight.
 Transportation interruptions, Labor shortages, and the rising cost of transportation has further driven up the prices of food, fuel, and energy, and it's also affected what we are able to purchase especially at the grocery stores, at the beginning of the pandemic you really had to work hard to find enough toilet paper and cleaning supplies to keep you going (no pun intended), well thankfully today we again have decent stocks of TP and household cleaning supplies, but we do have occasional shortages of dairy products, certain meat products, canned goods and other grocery items, have you checked the pet food isles lately, especially the Cat section, most markets have empty shelves.
 I think most people are feeling at least a bit more apprehensive about the future going forward in leu of not only the upsets we are experiencing here in the USA, but because of what's going on in Canada, eastern Europe, and across the globe for that matter, at one time what happened off our shores didn't impact us here very much, but today what's happening between Russia and the Ukraine and China and Taiwan, has us looking at potentially gas prices reaching $8.00 per gallon, ridiculous home heating fuel cost, and energy rates that are crazy.
 So, where am I going with this thread, well, I'm just wondering what the rest of you are doing (if anything) in the way of preparing for potential harder times, are you stocking more emergency food, are you rearranging your finances, maybe networking with family and close friends to come up with a plan in the event that things go south more than they already are ?     

[Mad-max]

Besides the (possibly worthless in the near future) money in investments,  we are doing what peppers do.  Collecting trade items
  Within that grouping is my confidence that booze and cigarettes will be worth their weight in gold.  But do I want to give a bottle of vodka for whatever to a desperate, hungry, scared human... I think not.  We just sealed another 20 lbs of flour, 20 lbs of cornmeal, 30 lbs of rice, 20 lbs of sugar in mylar and buckets.  Going on another run tomorrow for salt, cream of tartar and baking soda (makes baking powder and much longer shelf life).  This is on top of our already stocked pantry.
FL isn't that tough an environment to live in without power or heat.  Kelly and I have about 125 years of combined practice.  We live it months at a time. 
Water is our one weak point.  I've ordered gutters and a 350 gal catch tank.
Wrote down recipes like Pemican, hoe cake. Hard tack.
Honestly we've been at this awhile.  We have a plan.  Though I hope and pray we can just keep cycling through the pantry, albeit pay more to replenish.
No debt.  Own house, cabin, and land.
Have a quick bug out place within 10 or 15 miles.  We can ride our bike that far.
I'm trying to talk some everyday about the normalacy bias.  And I've got 2 friends and Kelly's sister family beginning to prep.  Although I think it's too little too late.  Try telling a beginner how much food and water they really need in a year per person.
Whew.  Sorry for going on and on.
Tony

[boomer]

These are indeed interesting times.

Folks can recognize the problems we face even while disagreeing concerning causes.

There are a number of lessons provided by the ongoing Covid situation IF we choose to learn them. The same approach applies to supply chain problems and environmental  issues. In order to effectively address our problems however, we need to widen our gaze.

Preparing for whatever might come down the road is only prudent. Personally, we keep about 3 months worth of basic food supplies, maintain appropriate clothing for any season,  stay as healthy as possible and insure communication lines are strong within the family and neighbors. Discerning fact from hyperbole and propaganda at every level requires ongoing research.

Considering day to day issues is necessary. Equally necessary is keeping the larger picture in mind. Stocking up on TP may be wise but will that kind of thing prepare us for, say, dealing with the inevitable consequences of failing neoliberal economic policies? Maybe,  but the latter requires a different approach.


A "When the roof leaks don't blame the rain" approach is one we haven't developed so far.   Yet that is exactly what we need most.

[Moe M.]

  Eh , Yup, I guess.   

[Mad-max]

Oddly,  I went to get my 350 gal water storage tank and nobody knew what I was talking about.  It seems they were sold out of all of them except 50 gal barrels.  Used.  Meaning a good scrubbing before I could safely use them.  7 times over to get 350 g capacity.

Maybe temporary.  Maybe not.

[Moe M.]

Oddly,  I went to get my 350 gal water storage tank and nobody knew what I was talking about.  It seems they were sold out of all of them except 50 gal barrels.  Used.  Meaning a good scrubbing before I could safely use them.  7 times over to get 350 g capacity.

Maybe temporary.  Maybe not.

 You live in Fla., don't you have a swimming pool ?   

[Mad-max]

Lol.  No.  We too po.  Plus it's a weekly expense when we're gone to the mountains.  Our whole focus financially as we worked our way into retirement is to be debt free and going hand in hand with that is low maintenance.
We've talked about a lap pool but never pulled the trigger.  I like open water as does Kelly.  Beautiful springs down here and a 25 mile reservoir in the mountains.  And we have a huge pool at the college in town you can swim on the cheap.
So much cheaper to avail ourselves to cheap swimming and dropping some dough on a water storage system here

[Moe M.]

Lol.  No.  We too po.  Plus it's a weekly expense when we're gone to the mountains.  Our whole focus financially as we worked our way into retirement is to be debt free and going hand in hand with that is low maintenance.
We've talked about a lap pool but never pulled the trigger.  I like open water as does Kelly.  Beautiful springs down here and a 25 mile reservoir in the mountains.  And we have a huge pool at the college in town you can swim on the cheap.
So much cheaper to avail ourselves to cheap swimming and dropping some dough on a water storage system here

 While I was just busting you Tony, if getting water is a potential problem a cheap 12 or 15 ft. above the ground pool (about $275.00 at Wally World) will hold a couple of thousand gals. of water, if you don't want to swim in it just winterize it with a chemical kit and cover it, they come with small filters, all you have to do is run the filter for a couple of days every year and retreat it, the water will stay clear and reasonably clean, if you have to use the water just run it through a good filter or boil it.
 Once treated and covered there's really nothing else that has to be done until next season, you can take off to you mountain retreat for six months if you want and not have to worry about it.
 Our 15ft. above the ground pool is about 15 years old and still in great shape, it holds about 4000 gals. of water.

[wsdstan]

We have a couple of 275 gallon totes, the plastic tank in a metal frame that you can pick up and put on the back of a truck.  I got them in trade spraying weeds for a local vinyard.  He got them full of juice used in making wine.   We also have a 5 acre reservoir on our place but that water would require treatment for drinking use. 

The totes are good for rainwater collection although I don't do that. I did pump water into them from the reservoir and use it to water the garden  for a couple of years but lately have just stored them. If we get to gardening again in earnest I will use them for a water source.

[Moe M.]

 We are on the town water system, it's fed from deep Artesian wells and gravity fed to the residents and to fire hydrants about the town, we've never been without water no matter what the emergency, but if it was interrupted there's plenty of natural water in streams, rivers, ponds and lakes in New England that it's hard to walk in a straight line for a few hundred yards without getting your feet wet, it would need to be filtered, treated, or boiled to make it safe, but it's there.
 My biggest problem would be a lack of game, we have allot of deer, but they are pretty well dispersed, over the last decade or so the 'Yotes have moved in and decimated most of the small game except for Squirrel, but if we were reduced to foraging for food it wouldn't take long for them to be killed off like they were during the depression years. 
 Folks like you who have small farms would have the advantage of growing gardens and canning and keeping chickens, goats, and raising a couple of pigs for meat, eggs, milk, butter, and cheese.

 Lets just pray we aren't forced to endure that in our life time.

[Mad-max]

Moe,  Kelly has been reading me sales on those above ground pools for years.  I poo poo'd them for concern of longevity.  My go to statement was, "  If we're going to get a pool lets get a real pool."  Your experience with them just changed my mind.  15 years is pretty impressive in your nwck of the woods.  And it will be MUCH cheaper than a buncha barrels.  Thanks

[Moe M.]

Moe,  Kelly has been reading me sales on those above ground pools for years.  I poo poo'd them for concern of longevity.  My go to statement was, "  If we're going to get a pool lets get a real pool."  Your experience with them just changed my mind.  15 years is pretty impressive in your nwck of the woods.  And it will be MUCH cheaper than a buncha barrels.  Thanks

 Tony, In a perfect world an above the ground pool wouldn't be the best option, we'd have no strife, no violence, no poor folks like us and worse off that have to think out of the box to get along, truth be told our pool cost us five grand when we bought it, it's been well used but remains in great shape, mostly I imagine because we took good care of it, for years I enjoyed tending to it.
 My wife and I haven't used it in a couple of years because we aren't stable enough to climb the ladders to get in and out of the pool, my youngest boy (now 50yrs old) and his wife lives in one of our apartments and my grand daughter and her husband live in the apt over us, they've. been using and enjoying the pool since we bought it, so we've given it to them and they now care for it.
 It's not our first, we've had several in different places that we've lived and we couldn't afford the best back then,  but if cared for we got our monies worth, one of my neighbors has a couple of kids and he bought a Walmart pool three years ago on a spring sale for under three hundred bucks, it's got a powder coated steel frame, tin side panels, and a rubberized liner, it came with a inexpensive sand filter and a skimmer, he's going on his fourth year with it and it seems to be holding up well.
 It's a good feeling to know that in an emergency we can access safe water, filter it through our water filter or Berkey and never have to leave our property to get it, and every time it rains it becomes a renewable resource.

[Mad-max]

Amen to the pool water storag be.  5 grand is still cheaper than trying to collect and protect an obvious water container that'll hold 4000 gal.  I probably don't need quite as much yet (Thats like 3 years worth),  our food would run out before then. 

Funny how a simple solution can escape you.
 

[xj35s]

We started seeds from the Dollar Tree. Packages were 4 for $1 and they took off right away. They were started early for us we can't get them in the gorund until after memorial day. This was a test to see if we could get a garden growing and it's amazing with the zippy trays, heating pads, and T5 grow lights. The seed vault I bought from the imilitary surplus didn't ever germinate. tried everything too. We also bought burpee and some heirloom from Tractor Supply / Country Max. Our worry is if we will have enough to can, dehydrate, and pickle to last through a winter or two.


We usually buy plants started from the greenhouses in the area, mostly amish in Penn Yan, NY.
I bought a cheap harbor freight carport and 6Mil plastic sheeting to cover it with for a cheap greenhouse. I'm going to cross brace it with 2x4's and conduit hanger brackets and it'll be bolted to two 4x4x16 pressure treated. We have a 4' T5 grow light and two heat lamps to put in there. Also picked up 8 of these plastic shelving units to put them on.
I got a gift card from work for "driver of the quarter" and we invested in a bigger dehydrator. I almost pulled the trigger on a freeze drier and may yet.



I'll post more in the next post on our chicken endeavor. This is over two weks ago


This was today.

[wsdstan]

That is a great start XJ

[Mad-max]

It's planting season in mid FL.  I have heirloom seeds that are going into seed trays.  Probably going to try grow bags for some as they get bigger.  Plenty of used pots around the place.  Even a big 45 g for some rootcrops or the three sisters.

[xj35s]

3 sisters? Ya lost me.


The coop will be more permenantly mounted to this little harbor freight trailer and it will get a skirt and 3' x 50' welded wire fence for a large movable rig. I have a small trailer jockey that will be attached to the tongue so we can just grab it with a quad and slide it 10 yards a day.
It will be turned around 180 so the door is on the rear. It has a slide out drawer for cleaning and bedding which I thought was cool. Much better built than the tractor Supply one. This was at Country Max.





The Carport.



First outing with no dogs. We lost Xena on January 31st. She quit eating but was devouring water and snow non stop. puked any food she ate. Xray showed a large mass shutting off her stomach, and a fluid sack and large mass right below her heart. Just too old for surgery of that magnitude. I wish now we got a biopsy just to know. First dog we cremated.


only. one.




Of course I had to make a fire, as I always did with the girls.

[Mad-max]

3 sisters.
Corn for the beans to climb and squash to cover the ground.  Oooooold agriculture technique
They like growing together.

[wsdstan]

Nice chicken house and a  good way to move them around.  3' fence won't keep out coons and some other predators but maybe you are putting a top wire cover on it.

[xj35s]

It'll be in the back yard and they'll be locked inside at night. We'll see.

[wolfy]

Mad-max nailed it.....THREE SISTERS: corn, beans & squash...planted in the same hill.  There is a book that explains the concept called BUFFALO BIRD WOMAN'S GARDEN.  It can be obtained from The Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NEBRASKA.

[boomer]

Mad-max nailed it.....THREE SISTERS: corn, beans & squash...planted in the same hill.  There is a book that explains the concept called BUFFALO BIRD WOMAN'S GARDEN.  It can be obtained from The Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NEBRASKA.

Very good observations.

In my area the three sisters were planted in waffle gardens (now called "intensive planting") and turkeys were also kept. Additionally deer and fish were part of the regular diet. Not bad fare it seems. Extensive trading networks also regularly provided bison products.

[xj35s]

Thank you Wolfy. $8 for kindle. I never heard of that before. very interesting. Thinking about upside down tomoatoes. Anyone experienced with that method?

[crashdive123]

When I was working, I had a couple of customers that tried the upside down tomato thing on their patio.  They didn't seem to produce all that great as I recall.

I have very limited planting space so I use Earth Boxes.  The yeild from them is more than double of those I put in the ground or in other pots.

[Mad-max]

Garden soil.  Holy moly!!!!  When did that get as expensive as gold.  Most of our soil here is sand.  Guess I'll start composting
I

[xj35s]

We have 100 1 gallon buckets being delivered on Monday. We went to buy potting soil for them. these bags are 64 quart each. My math say's 7 bags to fill 100 1 gallon buckets my wife said 51 bags. who's right?

[Icepick15]

1 Gallon Bucket = 4 Quarts.
100 Buckets x 4 Quarts = 400 Quarts.
1 Bag Potting Soil = 64 Quarts.
400 Quarts divided by 64 Quarts = 6.25 Bags (Therefore, 7 bags would suffice.).

64 Quarts x 51 Bags = 3,264 Quarts
3,264 Quarts divided by 4 Quarts = 816 Buckets.
816 Buckets - 100 Buckets = 716 Buckets.

This information is provided free of charge as a public service.  Feel free to use it as you see fit.  However, DO NOT under any circumstances tell your wife I gave you this information.  Be that as it may, my suggestion would be to check and triple check my math.  In addition, check and triple check the internal volume of the buckets AND the internal volume of the bags of potting soil.  Photographic evidence would be a plus.  A letter from the Secretary of Agriculture couldn't hurt.

Then, prior to presenting your case (notice I said "your" case, not "our" case), contact your bucket supplier and have 716 buckets on standby....in the eventuality that you have 2,864 spare quarts of potting soil on hand.

You're welcome.

[xj35s]

The most hilarious part is her Mother is a math teacher with two doctorate degrees and has been offered employment form several collages which she turned down to stay in the home town high school. She can't do averages either.

A lot of this will be mixed with our soil. We're up to over 400 plants and she ain't slowing down....

[wsdstan]

Icepick knows how to say stuff.  He  is, also, correct.  My advice would be to delete this thread from your computer asap upon confirmation of his data.

100 buckets is for sure 400 quarts.  400 quarts divided by 64 quarts is 6.25 so 7 bags will give you a few quarts of extra dirt with which your wife can cover your body.  The worms will love it.

[Mad-max]

This has developed into a dark thread.

[Moe M.]

This has developed into a dark thread.

   

[Icepick15]

This has developed into a dark thread.

I think of it more as.............prag matic.

[Mad-max]

Lol.  I laughed at most of the last few posts.  We soely need some entertainment around here lately.

[xj35s]

I'll come clean. The math issue is true. The reason we ended up with a full pallet is this. The bags were frozen together and we couldn't get 10 bags piled onto the cart. I said lets just buy the whole the pallet. Not knowing there were 48 bags total. It'll get used. $632 for the Pallet 

[Mad-max]

Good Lord!  You better grow some spectacular veggies.

[Icepick15]

I'll come clean. The math issue is true. The reason we ended up with a full pallet is this. The bags were frozen together and we couldn't get 10 bags piled onto the cart. I said lets just buy the whole the pallet. Not knowing there were 48 bags total. It'll get used. $632 for the Pallet 

I guess that's what marriage is all about......compromi se.

You only wanted 7 bags, but you agreed to compromise with your bride.  It's not exactly in the middle, but it's not 51 bags either.  Plus, you don't have to sleep on the sofa.

[Mannlicher]

Thank you Wolfy. $8 for kindle. I never heard of that before. very interesting. Thinking about upside down tomoatoes. Anyone experienced with that method?

if you are seriously prepping for bad times,  a Kindle won't last long.  Paper books.............. ....

[wolfy]

Yeah,.....me, too.

[xj35s]

once kindle books are downloaded they are good forever. I know it takes power but you can put them on a flash drive or hard drive. I use a cell phone that has never been connected to a cell tower for use as a computer. pictures, files, books, pdf files........

[wsdstan]

A solar charger will last a fair bit of time as well. 

[Phaedrus]

I keep a stock of things I use/need but have no aptitude for gardening/farming.  I have no space for it anyway.

[boomer]

Interesting topic and observations among different approaches, especially in these days.

Keeping the possibility of hard times in mind seems a no brainer but there are a number of things beyond an individual's control or ability to influence. Maybe this is when recent lessons from Covid come in.

We all remember toilet paper hoarding and a few get rich schemes (mostly wiped out) but toilet paper is a commodity where, for a few obvious reasons, supplies just can't be ramped up.  Seems we all survived anyway.

During the early lockdown phase crude oil prices hit negative price per barrel range. In my area gasoline was $1.50 per gallon or so. The pictures from around the world showed a clearing environment with conditions not seen for decades or more. Today, again in my area, gasoline is pushing $4.60 plus with almost daily increases and price per barrel is over $130.  That cost change is NOT the direct result of administration policies in either case.  Petroleum  is  based on an global scale market structure and while I can change driving and other use habits there is no way to influence the larger picture. This is an example of supplies that can be ramped up.

It seems there a two basic approaches in topics like this. One idea is to prepare for hard times by minimally adjusting usual routines. The other is to reorganize expectations. In my area, again, there is an ongoing pattern of cyclical drought and serious water concerns. At the same time residential building projects allocate 300 gallons per day of potable water per bedroom in new construction which is often apartments.  Maybe not all 300 gallons will be used everyday but it's "on call". My all in daily use is about 10 to 12 gallons per day but ive lived in the desert a long time and understand the true value of water.  So it goes.

The point of all this is not that everyone should do as I do but that we must widen our gaze. Only by seriously considering the real effects of our expectations can we effectively prepare for hard times. And as we all know hard times happen.

[Pete Bog]

Boomer,
    Is your water source independent of outside influence ie. hand pump well, rain catchment, snow melt stream, etc.?  Or do you use an outside water source either piped in or hauled in, in large containers. Or a combination of each?
    Here, I have a well with a submersible electric pump. So, I'm good until the electric fails, then it's on to a standby generator until I run out of gas. At that point I need to plan on hand dipping but the static water level is at 28 feet. I'll get enough to survive on, but laundry and showers will become a hardship. I use water catchment from rain gutters to water plants. That water could be used for laundry/showers I suppose if push came to shove.
    There have been three wells on the place since it was homesteaded in the 1880's. The first was a hand dug well that was in service for maybe 15 or 20 years. That was replaced by an 80 foot deep drilled well, and used a cylinder and hand pump. When electricity came to the place in the early '40's a jet pump was substituted  and the hand pump was set aside, never to be used again. In the ensuing 80 years, very little is left of the hand pump. The pump jack, sucker rod and some of the pipe is still here but the cylinder and other parts are all missing.
    In 2008 it was determined the well was about a 100 years old and the well casing was becoming sketchy. So a new well was drilled a few feet from the old and a submersible pump replaced the old jet pump. In the 14 years since it has performed flawlessly, meeting the needs of a one family residence. It would handle a subsistence level of livestock, but more than 10 or 15 head of livestock would probably put a strain on it.
    As it stands now, in order to be comfortably independent of outside resources (electric company) I need to have a reliable method of hand pumping my water. In preparing for hard times, this is something on my "to do list". It doesn't keep me up at night, but it's never far from my thoughts.
     What have I done recently for the coming difficulties? I bought a little tin can car that gets 37 miles to the gallon.  A little grey Chevy Aveo5.
The fist time I saw it from a distance I had to laugh and go take a closer look to see what it was. It was cheap and gets 37 MPG so I can still travel where I want to go. The pickup pulling a camper gets 9.5 mpg. That's not going to work for longer trips if gas goes to $7.00/gallon.
     If gas goes to $7.00/gallon I could just as well park the camper in the back pasture, because that's about as far as it's going to go anyway.

[boomer]

Thanks for the reply and the issues raised.

I can only speak for myself, of course. Other folks have different situations and ideas.

I draw water from a 30 yo, 40 ft well with a static height of about 12 ft using a submersible pump. The area is high desert at 6200 ft in the Rio Grande valley. The pump is on grid with a solar conversion in the works during which a hand pump will also be added. There's plenty of water even if the quality is mineral rich.

As to water use I decided long ago to live in an arid region and to me that meant adjusting my expectations to the desert. No dishwasher, clothes dryer etc.to begin with.  And since the kids are grown and off doing what they do, no washing machine or air conditioning or swamp cooler. There's plenty of well water for hygiene and a garden. With a high water table the small orchard is self sustaining in that department. No large stock these days. But nothing changes the facts of desert life. It works for me.

Most of my adult life I've mainly ridden road size motorcycles, often as primary transportation, so 30 or more mpg was the usual. Unfortunately a tourist in a rental car put a crimp in my riding. I do need a pick up though. The F150 4wd only gets a combined 21 mpg so gas prices are definitely an issue. Hoped to be able to get a good EV pu by now but that's just wishing. Doubt I'll be in the market for a new vehicle again. I decided to only drive every other day some time ago and now it's pretty much routine. Practically, it just means I get more exercise and tend to camp more (truck or tent these days) during fishing season. I enjoy it and the dog never complains. 

My choices may seem extreme but i look at it them as reasonable in protecting the area where I live and respecting the desert I love. My current situation allows the freedom to do it and I don't take it for granted.

The long winded point I suppose is it is possible and often preferable to tailor our expectations. Seeing things as they are instead of how we're told they are by folks with interests far different (or opposed ) to our own seems pretty reasonable. Especially these days.

[xj35s]

Just dropped the coin on an all american pressure canner. 30qt metal on metal seal and weighted gauge. Our plan is to pint can soups for quick heat and eat meals. MRE's for our pantry. We live in an area with a lot of roadside vegetable stands and farmers markets. The problem will be demand driving more prices up. Trying very hard to get back to life 80 years ago.
I have a wood splitter that has an enormous ram. 30ton? I want to build a hydraulic loading rack, I may incorporate this into a log cutter off my flatbed trailer for a handy modular wood proccessor. I have all the rams, valves, and a lot of the steel. Just need to invest in hoses. I wish I could get a woodmiser head to run on the rails on my flatbed for making my own lumber.

Way more ideas than ambition....

[crashdive123]

Hurricane season is soon upon us.  I go through a lot of wood for the enjoyment of sitting bythe fire, but with the wood I will gather soon, it will be with the thought of cookin as needed.  We have always put up food for tough times, but are redoubling our efforts now.

[boomer]

Much as I appreciate canning and grew up enjoying my grandmother's expertise, I primarily rely on drying food. Mostly in the fall fruits and some vegetables are dried and packaged for winter. And there's always some jerky of one kind or another all year. It is easier to manage with very limited space but not the same, of course. Fortunately drying stuff isn't very difficult in the desert. But its not the same.

[xj35s]

Our redneck greenhouse. Harbor freight carport 10x20, 6 mil plastic, gorilla tape for plastic sheeting, and pipe hanger brackets with wood screws.


I tied bank line in an ex pattern across both ends and both sides for stability while assembling. slip loop on one end truckers hitch on the other. The wooden wall is an old trailer bed and the front left corner is where our door will be. sort of framed it up. The top of those boards will be cut off. Still need to finish the bottom sides. So far as is 15+mph winds and no damage. Still a work in progress. By the time I get it done we will be able to plant in the ground

[wolfy]

Are you making provision for venting excessive heat?   

[xj35s]

Yes but could use some sugestion on heating. We have two infrared heat lamps but I'm not sure it's enough below 32*. I do have a thermometer that is radio connected to a main unit so we can monitor temps from inside the house.
We have a microwave above our stove. The presure canner won't fit underneath. Pull the stove out from the wall or remove the microwave?