Author Topic: Another Holidat  (Read 325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 373
Another Holidat
« on: January 15, 2023, 04:14:12 PM »
Martin Luther King Holiday observances begun when Regan was prez in 1983 and is celebrated tomorrow on Monday as a Federal holiday.

King was a prominent figure in the mid 20th century Civil Rights movement and was mot only a proponent of social justice but also spoke eloquently in opposition to yhr Viet Nam debacle and wage slavery in his day.

His work was not well received by J Edgar Hoover but the Kennedy brothers got on with him and Johnson tolerated him.

MLK was like many other civil rights workers lone eventually gunmanned. The response to which actually did see parts of major cities burned including a section of D.C.

A bit of an ironic tribute at the time to a leader who was steadfastly non violent.


Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9202
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2023, 05:52:00 AM »
Martin Luther King Holiday observances begun when Regan was prez in 1983 and is celebrated tomorrow on Monday as a Federal holiday.

King was a prominent figure in the mid 20th century Civil Rights movement and was mot only a proponent of social justice but also spoke eloquently in opposition to yhr Viet Nam debacle and wage slavery in his day.

His work was not well received by J Edgar Hoover but the Kennedy brothers got on with him and Johnson tolerated him.

MLK was like many other civil rights workers lone eventually gunmanned. The response to which actually did see parts of major cities burned including a section of D.C.

A bit of an ironic tribute at the time to a leader who was steadfastly non violent.

 The more things change, the more they stay the same.     :shrug:
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 373
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2023, 08:05:16 AM »
Seems so ....

Today is also National Religious Freedom Day. An observance that has a much longer history in our nation.

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9202
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2023, 06:58:24 AM »
Seems so ....

Today is also National Religious Freedom Day. An observance that has a much longer history in our nation.

 HA! another liberal lie, we stopped having religious freedom in this country when they outlawed showing Nativity scenes in public view and discouraged the greeting of "Merry Christmas" and when they gagged pastors, priests, and rabbis from using political speech during services.
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 373
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2023, 08:00:39 AM »
Now Moe I'm sure you know you're overstating the case, as usual. While the comment may reflect a belief that does not make it fact, which it indeed is not.

Fortunately freedom OF religion is also taken to mean freedom FROM religion  A safeguard vitally important in a democratically organized society as our founders well understood.

I favor the observation by Herodotus: "All men are equally knowledgeable about the divine."  seems like a reasonable operating principle

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9202
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2023, 06:32:16 AM »
Now Moe I'm sure you know you're overstating the case, as usual. While the comment may reflect a belief that does not make it fact, which it indeed is not.

Fortunately freedom OF religion is also taken to mean freedom FROM religion  A safeguard vitally important in a democratically organized society as our founders well understood.

I favor the observation by Herodotus: "All men are equally knowledgeable about the divine."  seems like a reasonable operating principle

 I agree, academically the premise that exist today accepts (more or les) the Freedom From Religion lie, but the Constitution actually says Freedom Of Religion which is vastly different and also states And the Freedom to Practice the same, which today we as citizens are not.
 The problem with original intent today as in many other areas of our Constitutionally protected freedoms is and was created by academics and lawyers who set about using words that change the meaning and destroy the intent, the Separation Clause when written (and deliberately so) said and still does "Freedom of Religion" not freedom from religion, it was meant to keep government out of religion not religion out of government.
 Academics, lawyers, politicians, and atheist would have all reference of religious symbolism removed from the public view using the Separation Clause and against original intent, the founders based our government on Judeo Christian values and teachings, a government for moral people, which is why they included God in the oath of office, in the Ten Commandments, and in the public view in Court houses and public buildings across this nation, that's pretty powerful evidence of our beginnings and of just how far the distain that academics, lawyers, and politicians have for our freedoms and our religious values and for America as it is meant to be.
 As some of us who haven't been reeducated remember.  :coffee:
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 373
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2023, 08:15:29 AM »
The argument you make Moe is overly selective and misleading. As for the interpretation of "original intent" that is an interpretation at odds with historical record albeit on favored by some Citizens. But opinions vary.

A more complete reading of the separation clause reveals the idea that government may not establish religion which was a very serious problem and the genesis of the Enlightenment period. A history the founders were very much aware of. Emphasizing only a few words out of context may seem convincing but is pretty transparent evey time.

There is no prohibition to display biblical injunctions on private property. Happens all the time. Using public property to proselytize however, is exactly the thing the separation clause addresses.

i happen to agree with( to paraphrase) Thomas Jefferson - It matters not whether a man believes in many gods or none it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

You are, of course, at liberty to believe as you wish and practice religion as you choose, with the usual caveats. We all are thankfully.  What you or I cannot theoretically do is require others to believe as we prefer.

Seems reasonable.

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9202
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023, 06:17:40 AM »
The argument you make Moe is overly selective and misleading. As for the interpretation of "original intent" that is an interpretation at odds with historical record albeit on favored by some Citizens. But opinions vary.

A more complete reading of the separation clause reveals the idea that government may not establish religion which was a very serious problem and the genesis of the Enlightenment period. A history the founders were very much aware of. Emphasizing only a few words out of context may seem convincing but is pretty transparent evey time.

There is no prohibition to display biblical injunctions on private property. Happens all the time. Using public property to proselytize however, is exactly the thing the separation clause addresses.

 And again, as a card carrying academic you are mixing a little fact with allot of conjecture, the Separation Clause does in fact bar the government from establishing a national religion such as the Church of England as it should, but freedom to practice doesn't limit citizens from setting up a Christmas Tree or a Nativity scene or Menorah in a Community park,   
i happen to agree with( to paraphrase) Thomas Jefferson - It matters not whether a man believes in many gods or none it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

You are, of course, at liberty to believe as you wish and practice religion as you choose, with the usual caveats. We all are thankfully.  What you or I cannot theoretically do is require others to believe as we prefer.

Seems reasonable.

 Of course it seems reasonable, that's the way liberals, lawyers, and academics use words to distort the truth, they started before the ink started to dry on the original Constitution and have been at it ever since, to this very day the left uses certain parts of the Constitution that they can bend to their benefit and ignore those parts that hinder their agenda.
 Typically every leftist lie is built on a small bit of truth, then intermixed with a whole lot of seemingly good intent until it sounds reasonable, the Separation Clause does bar our government from creating a state sponsored religion such as the Church of England, but the freedom to practice does not limit citizens to do so only on private property, it doesn't
bar setting up a Christmas Tree or a Menorah in a public school during the holidays, or a Nativity Scene in a community park, that's only a Free Expression that the Constitution speaks to.
 It's no different that displaying white crosses in public Cemetaries or on Churches within public view, or on Monuments in public land, but several years ago they tried to ban crosses and Christmas decorations that had a hint of religion in them and they lost that battle in our community, but it doesn't stop them from waging their war on religion, on family, and on the moral values that this country was founded on every day in every part of this country.
 And I've never heard of any religious symbolism picking a man's pocket or breaking a man's leg, have you ?    :shrug:
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 373
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2023, 09:07:24 AM »
Leaving aside whomever they "they" are or whatever conspiracy might be ongoing let's just make things simple and reality based.

You are certainly able to erect whatever symbol you want on private property  and worship whatever and however you want - within the usual caveats. So can I. We may believe each has the only right way of doing things  even if each is totally different or diametrically opposed to the other.

What you or I cannot do is attempt to make others worship or participate as either of us claim appropriate. And neither of us can claim the general public must be coerced to follow either of our very different practices and views. Since public spaces belong to the entire public a single organized religious sect ,  regardless of how large or how fervent adherents may be, cannot exclude others or control public behavior.

The Establishment Clause is not solely about religion. It addresses the traditional mechanisms of social control  inherent in organized religion. Something the founders well understood if we can trust what they wrote and we tend to ignore.

There is no grand conspiracy at work. Citizens are at liberty to practice as they choose and cannot force others to do the same.  That includes ALL Citizens not just those who happen to agree.

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9202
Re: Another Holidat
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2023, 08:44:28 PM »
Leaving aside whomever they "they" are or whatever conspiracy might be ongoing let's just make things simple and reality based.

You are certainly able to erect whatever symbol you want on private property  and worship whatever and however you want - within the usual caveats. So can I. We may believe each has the only right way of doing things  even if each is totally different or diametrically opposed to the other.

What you or I cannot do is attempt to make others worship or participate as either of us claim appropriate. And neither of us can claim the general public must be coerced to follow either of our very different practices and views. Since public spaces belong to the entire public a single organized religious sect ,  regardless of how large or how fervent adherents may be, cannot exclude others or control public behavior.

The Establishment Clause is not solely about religion. It addresses the traditional mechanisms of social control  inherent in organized religion. Something the founders well understood if we can trust what they wrote and we tend to ignore.

There is no grand conspiracy at work. Citizens are at liberty to practice as they choose and cannot force others to do the same.  That includes ALL Citizens not just those who happen to agree.

 LOL, I think you've missed your vocation. 
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.