Monthly Project - August 2013

[PetrifiedWood]

For this month's project, it is going to require going outdoors. The project is simple, find natural water.

You will need to fill an 8oz. cup with water from a natural source. This can be anything you wish, from collecting dew with a sponge and wringing it out into your cup, to simply walking up to a river or creek and dipping your cup full. This will be a bigger challenge for some of our members than others. The only rule is that the water be from a natural source (not someone's pool, fountain, koi pond, drainage ditch or faucet).

And be sure NOT to drink it without making it safe it by boiling, filtering, or water treatment chemicals. Drinking it is not mandatory. You just need to locate it and show what method you used to collect it.

Good luck!

[John Van Gelder]

PW

Since my water supply is a spring, and I drink quite a few cups of water out of it every day..I will pass on this one.

[MnSportsman]

   Here is an "Artesian Well", or a "Spring", as I usually call it, that I visit quite often when I am out in the "wilds". It flows out of the ground at quite an amazing rate. It almost literally, "Gushes", or some serious "Bubbling",  out of the ground, year round. It is part of the main "head" of a local trout stream.
( Some of you have seen pics of where Duke & I when we are within 100 ft.of this Spring in the "Outings" part of the forum.).


   I look for these type of Springs quite often, as it is part of my hunting/scouting pursuits. Find the water that flows constant, year round, you can find the game that visits there....  


  Not many folks have seen this Spring, or, at least taken the time to go look for it.... It is a "out of the way", or basically, "off the beaten track", type of a trip into places most folks don't go most of the time. I rarely see any trace of humans within 300-400 yds of it. Mostly animals. Personally, I like it that way....
 


BTW, in the pics, I may have filled the Blue mug to over 8 ounces, and I know I filled it more than once, but I think it meets the project. I will enjoy seeing any others posts here, ones who actually participate in this project.
Have fun, & I want to suggest....get out side.....It is good for ya.

















I have a video about this trip also, if I get around to editing, uploading, & then posting it...


   

[PetrifiedWood]

Well done JB, and a good example of what this month's project is all about!

[John Van Gelder]

PW

Sorry to be "obtuse", but I am not sure what the point of this project is, you either know where to find water or you go thirsty.  I know where every spring is within a five mile radius of right here.  I can walk over to one of the other springs and take a picture, but to what gain.

I would also suspect that MnSportsman's artesian well is actually a spring.

However springs are good, that are places in the world that depend on spring water, and utilize springs that have been continuously in use for thousands of years.

[BigHat]

i'll be "a-cute" poster,

"The project is simple, find natural water. "

[John Van Gelder]

Just as a point of interest, can some tell me in 25 words or less what "unnatural" water is?

[Old Philosopher]

Just as a point of interest, can some tell me in 25 words or less what "unnatural" water is?

LOL! Would it make you feel better if it was called "processed" water?  I got a kick out of PW's reference to the neighbor's swimming pool! 

But to address your question, I would say that waste water being run through a sewage treatment plant, chemically treated, and returned to the public as potable water was "unnatural".      (six words to spare)

[John Van Gelder]

How is your explanation of unnatural any different than forgetting to drink up stream from where the horses drink???  Something we have done for some, at least 6000years.. J

[Old Philosopher]

How is your explanation of unnatural any different than forgetting to drink up stream from where the horses drink???  Something we have done for some, at least 6000years.. J

Well... In the case of livestock, they pee in the creek with no apologies, and it's up to us to figure it out and compensate.

With treated sewer water, often we don't have a choice, and in any case are told it's okay, because "they fixed it", and the coliforms are "within limits", anyway.   

[MnSportsman]

John,
I see below that you read my earlier comments in this post, & now I have "edited" it.
 I likely wasted my time when I typed those comments to you. I figure you prolly didn't understand the meaning behind what I wrote.
I'll not waste my time any longer.


So,



It would be nice to see some other "entries". I am looking forward to seeing them.



 

[John Van Gelder]

MnSportsman

If you do not lighten up you will have ulcers before your are any older..  these forums as I have mentioned before are social in nature, if you are not able to tell what is good natured in content then, all I can say is I am sorry.....for you... 

[lgm]

I am in. I know of a spring that feeds a creek.
I assume anyone can suggest a project. So maybe John will challenge us a little next month.
As I see it any excuse to get outside.

[John Van Gelder]

lgm

Good for you.. If you have an area where you hike or hunt, it is always good to know where all the water sources are.   A lot of the USGS maps have springs marked on them.  And as I mentioned springs can be productive for a very long time.

I am thinking about a project, everyone can build their own Atlatal.  I have watched Australian Aboriginals throw a spear (dart)  with a Woomera (Atlatal) that completely pierced a three strand bales of hay at 50 yards, and that was with a unfletched "dart".

[Old Philosopher]

It might be a little tough to find a spring if you happen to live in The Bronx, or even downtown San Francisco.
But in the spirit of this thread, natural run-off of rainwater, even off the top of your office building would work.
A lot of cities have parks with ponds/lakes that are spring, creek or rain fed.
Other than a city park, or rainwater, I'm not sure what another source of "natural" water might be. 

[PetrifiedWood]

Yes, I am always open to suggestions for monthly projects. I can't promise that I will use every suggestion, but I can say with confidence that most of the suggestions have been better than the ideas I have come up with on my own. 

In any case, the point of these monthly projects is to challenge oneself. If you know of a bunch of easy to find sources of water, great! But if getting 8 ounces from those sources seems too easy, then find another source. Dig in a dry creek bed, cut a vine, collect rainwater, etc. Use your imagination. For our members who rarely make it out into the wilderness, finding a spring located on a map might be a pretty big deal. For our members who have plenty of abundant water, challenging themselves to obtain it by a novel means might be a pretty big deal also.

Above all, use these monthly projects as a way to get out and share a common experience with your fellow B&B members. Past projects have shown that we can all learn something new from each other and by seeing how different members approach the same problem, we can add to our own list of potential solutions.

[Old Philosopher]

.... For our members who have plenty of abundant water, challenging themselves to obtain it by a novel means might be a pretty big deal also.

...

Excellent post, PW!

My hens got locked out of the hen house during a thunderstorm that dumped an inch of rain. When I found them huddled together at 11 pm, I'm sure I could have wrung 8 oz of water out of them, easy! 

I'm not making light of this topic, just thinking outside the box. 

[John Van Gelder]

And that is why...

I am a bit glib bout these things, but I am old and have earned the right, "been there done that".. The real failing is that more folks do not jump in and participate, because that is what this is all about. 

Shared knowledge.     MnSportsman and I are often at cross purposes, but his heart is in the right place.  This is a great forum, If I did not believe it I would not be a supporting member.

As PW mentioned vines are a source of good pure water, if you cut through a vine, you wrap your fingers around the stem, and point your thumb, the water will run out of the cut and drip off your thumb into your mouth, if it is placed correctly.....

[Old Philosopher]

...

As PW mentioned vines are a source of good pure water, if you cut through a vine, you wrap your fingers around the stem, and point your thumb, the water will run out of the cut and drip off your thumb into your mouth, if it is placed correctly.....

If I were lost in a jungle, staggering around with a vine as my only potential source of water, I'd be curled up in a fetal position with my thumb in my mouth already!   

Okay...I'll be good now.....

[John Van Gelder]

OP

" OK I'll be good now"   That's out of character..!   

[Old Philosopher]

OP

" OK I'll be good now"   That's out of character..!   

My Dad used to say, "A smarta$$ without any smarts is just an a$$."  Good thing we have so many smart people around this campfire!   

 

[John Van Gelder]

OP

I believe you have left me an opening..!  Speaking of smart a----.  You made a comment on one of my other posts about why they do not send donkeys to school...!  As a long time aficionado of the family equus, the reason you do not send donkeys to school is because they are smarter than the teachers, hence the term smart a-- 

[Old Philosopher]

... they are smarter than the teachers,....

I'm not going to argue THAT point one bit!!!

[imnukensc]

So on the way to work this morning the weather man said 30% chance of rain.  Of course, it rained buckets!  We've had beaucoup rain here this year after being in drought or near drought conditions for about the last 8 years.  The rain gauge in the pic was dry before the rain today and the cup is 16 ounces so I'd say there's about 14 ounces in the cup. 

I need to scrub my rain gauge!  The center tube measures up to 1" of rain.  To get the total, you then pour the overage into the center tube (after dumping, of course).  I didn't do that, but from experience I'd say about 2.5" of rain today.

[John Van Gelder]

: imnukensc

It appears that you may have some new life forms, at the bottom of your rain gauge..  We had a quite a bit of rain last month and had a measured 5" over just a few days. 

This may be an excuse to wander down the trail in the next canyon over, lots of springs over there, and some of the catch pools are worth a picture.  I was over that way a couple of weeks ago.  I was standing on some rocks in one of the little pools and a humming bird landed on the rock right next to my foot to get a drink.  That was worth the walk down there.

A bit hazardous walking over there, if you are not watching where you step, you may end up with bear "poop" on your shoes, lots of it on the trail.

Nice looking yard, it that your target I see off in the distance??

I do not know what I would do with that much "level" ground ..   

I think we need a back yard thread... everyone posts a picture of their back yard, what do you think...??   John

[Bearhunter]

PW does a pic(s) of one of our cisterns count
This is the one that we get most of our drinking water from until it freezes of course...





It's a little more than 8 oz's though

It was almost empty until we finally got a little rain last week

[imnukensc]

That's about a third of the back yard, John.  Pretty much the only open area in the yard.  Not my target in the background.  That's an old plastic crate I threw in the brush pile.  There have been many, many brush piles burned back there in the 8 years I've lived here.  Lots and lots of trees (I quit counting just the dogwoods at 50) on my measly 2.5 acres so there's always lots of limbs to pick up, trees that need a limb or three taken off, etc.  I'm in for a back yard photo thread.  I'll have to do some sort of "collage" I think.  My little point and shoot digital doesn't have a fish eye feature.  It might be easier to just save an aerial image from the county GIS service!

[John Van Gelder]

 imnukensc

Still a nicely kept yard..

[Old Philosopher]

imnukensc

Still a nicely kept yard..

That leaves ME out! 80% of my backyard is garden, and the other 20% is ground scalped quack grass!!!!

[John Van Gelder]

OP

But I am sure it is very nice quack grass...

[Old Philosopher]

OP

But I am sure it is very nice quack grass...

It's not "nice" in any sense of the word. It's mean, spiteful, sneaky and a bully to boot!  It is healthy, though. I'll give it that!

Back to the OP. I never thought about our rain barrels. That last rain topped them all off.

[John Van Gelder]

When I lived in Ketchikan, my source of water was rain water, but with nearly 200 inches of rain a year, it was pretty reliable.   

[imnukensc]

This is a youtube video of an artesian well about 60 miles south of me.  Used to drive by it regularly on my way to a deer hunting lease on 2500 acres we had about 10 miles from it.  Some pretty interesting history behind this artesian well.



When I was a kid growing up about 60 miles east of where I live now, there was an artesian well about 500 yards behind my house.

Just figured I'd share.

[John Van Gelder]

imnukensc

When I lived in Fairbanks, actually 14 mi. North, at Fox, Ak., a wide spot in the road., there was a spring there, that most of the folks got their drinking water from, all of the wells there had so much iron in them, that even with pretty sophisticated water conditioners/purifiers/filters the water was still nearly undrinkable.

We used to go down to the spring get several 5 gal containers of water, chat with the neighbors who were doing the same thing..

[upthecreek]

Not hard to get me near the river. I'd drink this water where it comes out of the base of the dam...if I was in real need. This spot is about 12 miles or so down stream.



Creek 

[WoodsWoman]

I need to sneak in a minute and ask where are those maps that will tell you where natural springs are in your area?   I'd love to see one of my area.  Please?

WW <  Who needs to find herself a clear glass now.... mmmm

[John Van Gelder]

I took a little stroll this morning, went down into the canyon just the other side of my ridge looking for some "wild water"..  This entire area if on top of a 2 million year old lava flow. Lots of places for water to be trapped and then slowly released over the year. If you walk down into any ravine, you will find water, at the conjunction of more than one ravine there may be significant pools of perfectly clear drinkable water.

I would be a bit suspicious of the place that I photographed, because the range stock are using that water source as well .. there was certain amount of "cow residue" to be seen.  But there is so much of this water that the stock men do not put out water for their cattle, the cows just go down into the ravines and drink from the springs.

[Old Philosopher]

...

I would be a bit suspicious of the place that I photographed, because the range stock are using that water source as well .. there was certain amount of "cow residue" to be seen.  But there is so much of this water that the stock men do not put out water for their cattle, the cows just go down into the ravines and drink from the springs.

Nice!
You bring up a good point about "environmental awareness" regarding those mountain springs. Not only domestic stock, but all the wild critters use them.

FWIW, just because water is bubbling out of the ground doesn't make it safe. This is especially true in areas of past volcanic activity. A stream/river can run along the surface for miles, and then "disappear" underground. When it emerges again at lower elevations, it might have been filtered by the porous rocks, but that doesn't kill any bacteria it may have picked up along its journey.
I found what I thought was a spring, but it turned out it was seepage from a beaver pond only 150' higher up the mountain. Just sayin'.....

[John Van Gelder]

OP

Exactly..   We spend a lot of time making sure you have your "Mora" knife when you are out in the forest, but you would be much better advised to leave the knife home and make sure you had a good filter in your pack... There are some very nice filters, with a pump function that can produce five gallons of good drinkable water in a relatively short time.

The other side of the "coin", I have with absolute impunity consumed ground water from a lot of places.  I have in a pinch drank water out of tundra ponds that looked like "Earl Gray hot"...  That is a bit like playing roulette,  a good friend of mine a member of my "cohort" in Alaska,  Ran out of purified water, and drank some out of a tundra pond, and within 18 hours, was praying for death, because he was so sick.

The single most important  substance for life as we know it, here or anyplace in our universe, is liquid water.

More important than making fire, or any of the "imagined survival skills" is the ability to find water.  We can live for a long time with out a lot of things, the exception is water.... 

We existed for probably 2 million +/- years, before we found fire, but we would not have made that journey without water...

[Old Philosopher]

...
More important than making fire, or any of the "imagined survival skills" is the ability to find water.  We can live for a long time with out a lot of things, the exception is water....  ...

I think our misconceptions about the importance of water was illustrated in the show "Naked & Afraid". \
With all the pots, fire starters, and swim goggles, NOT ONE PERSON chose a water filter!  WTH?
I figure that was either ignorance on the participants' part, or more likely forbidden by the Producers. There would have been much less drama with even the simplest water treatment.

[John Van Gelder]

OP

As the CP said in Tron "End of Line".. without water that is where we are.   A pretty simple and relatively reliable filter is made of charcoal, something we can all make.  I see a monthly project there... 

[John Van Gelder]

You can find a good small water purifier, that will provide safe drinking water for much less that the cost of a custom knife, hatchet, or  fire drill kit, but I will bet that there are more folks budgeting funds for one of latter than a good water purifier. 

[Old Philosopher]

...
The other side of the "coin", I have with absolute impunity consumed ground water from a lot of places.  I have in a pinch drank water out of tundra ponds that looked like "Earl Gray hot"...  That is a bit like playing roulette, ...

Like you, I've been 'lucky', but being certain if the water source helps with the luck. I've even dipped a cup while paddling across lakes on the Kenai Peninsula, with beaver hooches along the shore. But that doesn't mean it's smart.

With everything I know now, I'd rather drink from a lake in Alaska than from a spring in the Midwest. 
40 years ago, I'd drink from any stream at higher elevations in the Cascades. The only boiled water I ever drank was my coffee. Now, I'm not so sure that any water can be trusted 100%.
I've filled my water jugs from glacier melt where I was line of sight to the glacier. Sounds safe enough, until you look at the surface of the glacier and see what looks like soot from industrial smog, and aircraft emissions.
If you ever question the safety of rain/snow water, just look at your car windshield after a rain. All that film and grime is in the rain, and in your body if you drink it straight up.

[wolfy]

I've drunk from cold flowing springs that emerge from the loess river bluffs of the Missouri River here in Nebraska for years, but it is the ONLY emerging water source that I trust in these parts.  Most of them remain as reliable sources for found water, even during periods of very dry weather.   This indicates to me that the vein of water is coming from deep within the bowels of the earth and not just from the seep of nearby surface water sources.

I used to drink untreated lake water from lakes in the more remote regions of the BWCAW, but it was common practice at that time and we never suffered any ill effects from it.  I use a filter these days, but some folks still use it untreated or filtered and suffer no problems.  Knowing what I know today, I'm not that brave or carefree to romantically dip my burl noggin or practice the old voyageur method of 'paddle drinking', no matter how  it may be!

[John Van Gelder]

Wolfy

An acquired skill, while paddling a freight canoe, to be able to be able to take a drink and not upset the rhythm of  the paddlers.

Of course the ability to sing a few songs in "French" is part of the tradition as well..   I have always marveled at the diversity, when the French came to the "New World" they tried to fit in with the indigenous peoples, the English, brought England with them.

[zammer]

There used to be several springs in the area, but one by one they have been closed up. So I took a wee drive out to a neighboring town Ancaster Ont, to see if the taps still flowed from the Artesian well they have drilled there, sure enough both taps were flowing fast and cold. The local Conservation tests the water and they did have a small warning with regards to the water having a higher sodium content than your basic tap water....anyhoo, I decided to fill up my bottle and have a taste, HUGE DIFFERENCE over tap water.. smelled better, tasted better, softer as well...might have to stop by this place more often in the future...



Just down the road from this well there is a natural Sulphur spring that still flows freely as well, although it does have a bit of that sulphur stink to it, the water can be drank ( I did not try it ) but the spring was originally a place where folks came at the turn of last century to bathe in its curative waters...



Thanks for the Aug project Pdubs 

[imnukensc]

OP

As the CP said in Tron "End of Line".. without water that is where we are.   A pretty simple and relatively reliable filter is made of charcoal, something we can all make.  I see a monthly project there...

Charcoal is very good for removing taste, color, and odor, but it doesn't remove bacteria or disinfect the water in any way.  You should still boil the water after running it through the charcoal a few times. 

[Old Philosopher]

OP

As the CP said in Tron "End of Line".. without water that is where we are.   A pretty simple and relatively reliable filter is made of charcoal, something we can all make.  I see a monthly project there...

Charcoal is very good for removing taste, color, and odor, but it doesn't remove bacteria or disinfect the water in any way.  You should still boil the water after running it through the charcoal a few times.

QFT.
Folks should always be aware of the difference between filtering and sanitizing ('purifying') water. Especially when they are buying commercial water treatment systems.

[John Van Gelder]

In a pinch, water filtered through charcoal is better than just drinking unidentified ground water.  There was a recent study done on activated charcoal filters, that indicates that they do remove some of the bacteria, and then there is the fact that all bacteria are not bad.  And how much do folks consume from their "safe" city water supplies.   Back when we drank nothing but rain water from cisterns, it was common practice to add a bit of Clorox periodically. 

Probably the only way to get pure water is distillation, not a very complicated process.   But even in distillation there is always the possibility of "carry over", some liquid water, and it passengers, passing into the condenser.

Can you get everything ( bacteria/chemicals) out of the water probably not and we consume great quantities every day, not to mention the "flora" that exists within us, that we need to live.

[upthecreek]

Being as most of us are pyros..Boil if at all possible should be the rule. Simple solution to complex problem.

Creek