Author Topic: Monthly Project - August 2013 (Read 51386 times)

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #50 on:** August 09, 2013, 07:29:42 AM »

Boil and treat.. a little iodine is good for the thyroid

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #51 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:39:48 AM »

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 07:16:03 AM

In a pinch, water filtered through charcoal is better than just drinking unidentified ground water. There was a recent study done on activated charcoal filters, that indicates that they do remove some of the bacteria, and then there is the fact that all bacteria are not bad. ...

Of course filtered water is safer than unfiltered water, even through a sock filled with sand.
But "activated" charcoal is a whole different critter from crushed charcoal from a campfire.
Activated Charcoal filters are used to filter out bacteria in aquariums. A packet or two of aquarium filters weigh about 1/2 oz, and might be a very good addition to any kit.

PetrifiedWood · « **Reply #52 on:** August 09, 2013, 09:01:57 AM »

Quote from: Old Philosopher on August 09, 2013, 08:39:48 AM

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 07:16:03 AM
In a pinch, water filtered through charcoal is better than just drinking unidentified ground water. There was a recent study done on activated charcoal filters, that indicates that they do remove some of the bacteria, and then there is the fact that all bacteria are not bad. ...

Of course filtered water is safer than unfiltered water, even through a sock filled with sand.
But "activated" charcoal is a whole different critter from crushed charcoal from a campfire.
Activated Charcoal filters are used to filter out bacteria in aquariums. A packet or two of aquarium filters weigh about 1/2 oz, and might be a very good addition to any kit.

As an aquarium owner for several years, I'd like to add that primarily the activated carbon is used to help remove chemical impurities, like ammonia. When you have sick fish and need to add medicine to the water, you have to remove the carbon filter elements so it doesn't filter all the medicine out.

That said, I would not personally trust carbon or charcoal alone to remove bacteria and parasites from water. The thing to remember is filter pore size. Since carbon and charcoal is crushed into a fine gravel or sand, it has a high surface area and can react with the water it comes in contact with to remove chemical pollutants, but it isn't going to stop many micro-organisms from passing through.

Think of charcoal as an "odor reducer" when treating water, not as disinfectant. It will make nasty boiled swamp water taste slightly less unappealing, but you are still going to need to boil it. It can also help remove some of the chemical flavor if you use the charcoal after chemically disinfecting the water.

Bearhunter · « **Reply #53 on:** August 09, 2013, 09:03:53 AM »

I know that I'm prolly opening up a 'can of worms' here, but I never even really knew what a water filter was until I moved to Montana. We grew up drinking from puddles and ponds and never thought anything of it

I still don't filter my water while in the backcountry or camping.
We do filter our drinking water from our cisterns though.
In our opinion...There is NO better tasting water in the WORLD than filtered rain water through our BERKEY...

http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/big-berkey.html

MnSportsman · « **Reply #54 on:** August 09, 2013, 09:06:48 AM »

I would like to see more Project entries.

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #55 on:** August 09, 2013, 10:27:45 AM »

PW

Carbon filters do remove microbes...

Here is an excerpt and a link to the entire article. What carbon filtration doesn't do can be seen in the remaining three categories of the EPA contaminant list. Carbon is mentioned as a treatment for only one of the four Microbiological contaminants listed: turbidity. It is not recommended for coliform removal or for cysts, though ironically, some of the very tight solid carbon block filters now on the market remove bacteria (though manufacturers seldom make this claim) and cysts like giardia and cryptosporidium quite handily. Multipure solid carbon blocks, in fact, were the first filtration device certified by NSF (the most prestigious independent agency that tests and certifies product performance) for removal of cryptosporidium. Multipure and some other very tight carbon block filters remove cysts simply because of their restricted pore size. Multipure blocks are absolute 1/2 micron filters, making cryptosporidium organisms about ten times too fat to go through the holes. Thus, although other types of very tight filtration might work as well, the very dense carbon block filters now on the market are very effective against certain forms of microbiological contaminants.

http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/carbon

It was not my intent to go quite so far afield, again in a pinch anyone can make a charcoal filter that will improve the quality of unidentified ground water. As OP pointed out even a sock full of sand will have some benefit.

And like Bearhunter, I have consumed a lot of ground water and never suffered a moment of discomfort. And before we get into the "Chicken Little" the sky is falling, just remember, you will die of dehydration before the "microbes" can get you, so rather than die of thirst, if it looks like water drink it...!

Bearhunter · « **Reply #56 on:** August 09, 2013, 10:50:06 AM »

A little side note story...

Years ago when I first moved here ('95) a couple of buddies and I went shed hunting up on the Clearwater/Blackfoot Game Range.
One was an Italian friend who is now a undercover Federal Wildlife agent based outside of Spokane that was straight outta Queens NY!
The other fellow who is half Italian and now lives down in the Keys as a professional bartender. He was from Jersey.
We were waking along and I needed something to drink. It had rained the night before so there were puddles about and around.
I just found a nice fresh clear one and kneeled down and started to drink from the puddle.
They FREAKED OUT!!!
I just laughed and got my fill.
Ever since then my bud from NY as always said that I have a stomach of 'Steel' because I could drink out of puddles and didn't die

City folks

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #57 on:** August 09, 2013, 11:05:45 AM »

Bearhunter

I firmly believe, that there is some conditioning involved. There was a time when folks ingested a certain amount of Arsenic, so they could acquire an immunity to poisons. Those of use that live closer to nature may have some immunities of our own.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #58 on:** August 09, 2013, 11:25:54 AM »

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 11:05:45 AM

Bearhunter

I firmly believe, that there is some conditioning involved. There was a time when folks ingested a certain amount of Arsenic, so they could acquire an immunity to poisons. Those of use that live closer to nature may have some immunities of our own.

I agree.
There may be another factor at work that 'protects' some of us from all the nasty things we are now told will kill us. As Adam Savage would say, "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."

As to the immunities, an interesting anecdote from my time in S.E.A.
One of the women I knew had an infant that was crawling age. Like nearly every other mother, her kid rarely wore diapers, and crawled around on dirty floors, and outside in the dirt.
When I said something about how much crud the kid wandered through, she had to put it as simply as she could with her limited English.
"If he not dirty now, later everything make him sick."

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #59 on:** August 09, 2013, 11:52:40 AM »

OP

We have occupied the planet for millions of years, if all of the stuff we are worried about now was really a threat, we would not be having this conversation .. J

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #60 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:03:39 PM »

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 11:52:40 AM

OP

We have occupied the planet for millions of years, if all of the stuff we are worried about now was really a threat, we would not be having this conversation .. J

Yeah, but previous generations didn't have all the chemicals in our foods and environment that we contend with these days.

As an aside, there are rules in Montana about feeding deer and elk. The reason is that unnatural gatherings of large numbers of animals promotes the spread of disease. Now look at the human population, just over the past 30 years. The growth is exponential.

Bearhunter · « **Reply #61 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:13:48 PM »

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 11:05:45 AM

Bearhunter

I firmly believe, that there is some conditioning involved. There was a time when folks ingested a certain amount of Arsenic, so they could acquire an immunity to poisons. Those of use that live closer to nature may have some immunities of our own.

I agree 100% John

I have always said that folks try and make their world much to sterile!
It's absolutely ridicules really!
Hell, I used to eat mud pies that my cousin Sheila would make me out in the yard in her 'Easy Bake Oven'. I'm still alive

I've also read that you build up an immunity to giardia and other pathogens, so I really don't worry about all that crap and just go on about my business.
Folks have lived for millions of years without all this crap that is shoved down out throats for 'safety'. If you look at the world today and how paranoid everyone is about 'germs' and getting 'sick', it's a wonder that anyone is left alive on the planet with all the 'dangers' and 'diseases' out there

A honestly find it silly!!!

Bearhunter · « **Reply #62 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:15:54 PM »

Quote from: Old Philosopher on August 09, 2013, 12:03:39 PM

Quote from: John Van Gelder on August 09, 2013, 11:52:40 AM
OP

We have occupied the planet for millions of years, if all of the stuff we are worried about now was really a threat, we would not be having this conversation .. J

Yeah, but previous generations didn't have all the chemicals in our foods and environment that we contend with these days.

As an aside, there are rules in Montana about feeding deer and elk. The reason is that unnatural gatherings of large numbers of animals promotes the spread of disease. Now look at the human population, just over the past 30 years. The growth is exponential.

Your absolutely right about that too OP!
That's why my wife and I avoid and don't eat processed foods!!!

And yes your right about over population too!

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #63 on:** August 09, 2013, 12:51:32 PM »

Not to say we are like rodents but.. If you pack a bunch or rats together in a closed environment, it does not take long for aberrant behavior to manifest itself, and disease propagates and spreads rapidly.

MnSportsman · « **Reply #64 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:10:58 PM »

I would like to request that we have an AUGUST 2113 Monthly Project topic here.

I would still like to see some more entries...

I'd even bet that there are some others who may like to see the same thing I am asking for...

imnukensc · « **Reply #65 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:30:08 PM »

PetrifiedWood · « **Reply #66 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:53:45 PM »

I don't think purifying water is out of line as a topic, but in truth, the topic has strayed quite far from this month's project. Perhaps Mn is right about reserving this thread for monthly Project discussion and submissions. However the delivery could be a little more polished.

You gents are welcome and encouraged to pick up the water purification discussion in a new thread.

MnSportsman · « **Reply #67 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:54:34 PM »

John Van Gelder · « **Reply #68 on:** August 10, 2013, 07:13:51 AM »

WW

I am not sure if anyone answered your question about maps with springs on them, the USGS maps have springs listed. Here is a link to some topographical maps you can use on line. http://www.topoquest.com/

Forest service maps have the springs that they have identified on them..

04man · « **Reply #69 on:** August 21, 2013, 01:37:23 PM »

This months project is a lot easier for some than others!

We've had a whole 6" of rain last year but I managed to water my dogs in a drainage off the mountain the other week. I have the day off and accept the challenge to get up off my arse!

04man · « **Reply #70 on:** August 21, 2013, 07:34:28 PM »

mg]

The dogs are always happy to be on the move.

04man · « **Reply #71 on:** August 21, 2013, 07:44:54 PM »

Oh crap!
I'm learning to post pics with my phone all over again.

The dogs.

Following the trail up the hill into the oaks you start to see signs of moisture.

04man · « **Reply #72 on:** August 21, 2013, 07:49:23 PM »

In the sycamores are where the wild grapes grow and the ground gets soggy in places.

04man · « **Reply #73 on:** August 21, 2013, 07:57:45 PM »

A scarf as a filter.

I bought a pump filter some years ago. Pre-hydration bladder era. I never wanted to carry a gallon or two of water just a quart or two and these little soggy spots worked out. You just can't be squeamish about your water. Just use pre-pre- pre-filters so the filter doesn't clog outright.

04man · « **Reply #74 on:** August 21, 2013, 08:02:08 PM »

I was going to use the pump filter and make cup'o soup but I was running short on time. Besides, it was 100* out and soup wouldn't have been enjoyable.

I'll finish with stove porn.

And Heidi.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #75 on:** August 21, 2013, 08:03:50 PM »

In the true spirit of this project! You actually had to WORK for a drink!

I like how you illustrated using the vegetation to locate your water.

Bearhunter · « **Reply #76 on:** August 21, 2013, 08:09:10 PM »

Great work 04Man

It just goes to show how in some areas it can be a real pain in the a$$ just to find a little water!

04man · « **Reply #77 on:** August 21, 2013, 08:32:13 PM »

If I'm off work tomorrow I'll hunt down some water on the dry side of the valley. I think the first pic showed the distant hills all brown and dry.

Neighbors can't believe the dogs come back with swamp mud on them when it's Africa Hot at the house. I ask them where they think they get the water they drink,flush and use to water their lush green lawn and they have no answer. The water fairies bring it.

04man · « **Reply #78 on:** August 21, 2013, 08:37:59 PM »

I love even the simplest of pics that you guys post because its very different here. Summers are when the plants go dormant, dropping their leaves to conserve moisture. Even the poison oak is down to just sticks sticking out of the earth. If we don't get rain again this year.......I have a hard time imagining.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #79 on:** August 21, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »

Quote from: 04man on August 21, 2013, 08:37:59 PM

I love even the simplest of pics that you guys post because its very different here. Summers are when the plants go dormant, dropping their leaves to conserve moisture. Even the poison oak is down to just sticks sticking out of the earth. If we don't get rain again this year.......I have a hard time imagining.

Here's one for you to put in your Book of Wonders, O4man. We're in the northern Rockey Mountains, spittin' distance from the Canadian border. WE HAVE HAD 7.48" OF TOTAL PRECIPITATION (including snow water) since the 22nd of LAST DECEMBER. It this keeps up, Glacier Park will look like your backyard.

04man · « **Reply #80 on:** August 21, 2013, 10:39:11 PM »

I'm not 100% sure on the dates but our rain is measured July to the end of the next June. What a pitiful amount of rain.

My sons girlfriend had a major fire behind their house. Scary stuff.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #81 on:** August 21, 2013, 10:42:20 PM »

They say the worst one in the Nation right now is the Lolo Complex up here in Montana. Not a fun time for the folks in Lolo, and it could threaten Missoula. One suburb of Missoula has already received their pre-evacuation notices.

04man · « **Reply #82 on:** August 22, 2013, 09:25:53 AM »

After reading about Solar Cycle 24 I'm hoping for the cooling trend predicted.

I hope this isn't too far off topic. It is loosely related. Getting 8oz. of water to drink is a problem in places all over the world. (For some reason a weeping Cody comes to mind) My community of 2200 largely have no idea that we get our water from a wet spot at the base of a 4,000 foot hill/mtn.

madmax · « **Reply #83 on:** August 22, 2013, 09:33:23 AM »

deleted.

imnukensc · « **Reply #84 on:** August 22, 2013, 05:06:29 PM »

When I first posted in this thread, I thought about how easy it was going to be to do this, but I also thought about folks in the desert southwest and other areas of the country in drought conditions and how difficult it might be for them to accomplish this. Appreciate your pics and your efforts 04man as well as the others that have posted that don't have it as easy as me. It has rained here every day for the past 6 days. I thought today we might make it through without any. It started raining about 5 minutes ago. I sure wish I could send some to those that need it.

madmax · « **Reply #85 on:** August 22, 2013, 05:37:08 PM »

I can jog to Silver Springs in 45 min. It produces 23 cu meters of pure water a SECOND. I'll disqualify myself. There are dozens of minor springs like this in central FL.

imnukensc · « **Reply #86 on:** August 22, 2013, 05:58:46 PM »

Hell, I can't JOG 5 minutes! Will ya give me 10 minutes max?

04man · « **Reply #87 on:** August 29, 2013, 07:36:26 PM »

Though its really dry around here there are pockets of water. This hidden little hole is nestled in these rocky hills by the house. In the past I've scared up quail and bobcat here. Coyotes go without saying. You can find those guys anywhere.

/img

]

The water wasn't stagnant. There was about a 1/4" deep water flow.

/img]

....and I got a full cup. This water I could live off. Beats the hell outa mud puddles.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #88 on:** August 29, 2013, 09:19:07 PM »

Nice! Duck Weed won't live in polluted water.

04man · « **Reply #89 on:** August 30, 2013, 03:04:12 PM »

Do you call the Duck Weed the green floating stuff or the cattails?

Yep. Your right. It looks real healthy down in there. I've been wanting to go back at night to sit and listen. Just to hear what comes around.

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #90 on:** August 30, 2013, 03:44:35 PM »

Quote from: 04man on August 30, 2013, 03:04:12 PM

Do you call the Duck Weed the green floating stuff or the cattails?

Yep. Your right. It looks real healthy down in there. I've been wanting to go back at night to sit and listen. Just to hear what comes around.

The floating stuff with the little leaves and trailing roots (might need a magnifying glass).
Good stuff! Those little ones contain more protein than soybeans. Common edible in S.E.A.

Sounds like an A-1 spot for a game camera.

WI_Woodsman · « **Reply #91 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:33:02 PM »

I went to the closest water source in my neighborhood, Lake Michigan, it's just a few blocks from the house.

Sportin' my new B&B shirt... A BIG THANKS to my buddy Matt Chaos!

The Great Lakes (of which Michigan is a part) are among the largest bodies of fresh water in the world and are more akin to inland seas, the name Lake is a bit misleading...

Unfortunately the Great Lakes are so polluted I would not only boil this water but filter it as well!

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #92 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:35:36 PM »

Gonna take you awhile to drink all that, eh? $:-\$

WI_Woodsman · « **Reply #93 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:51:36 PM »

Quote from: Old Philosopher on August 31, 2013, 04:35:36 PM

Gonna take you awhile to drink all that, eh? $:-\$

Yeah it'd make Cody Lundin weep for year after seeing the Great Lakes...

Old Philosopher · « **Reply #94 on:** August 31, 2013, 04:55:52 PM »

It IS pretty sad to think we've crapped in our own mess kit to the degree that we've polluted a body of water the size of New England!!!

WI_Woodsman · « **Reply #95 on:** August 31, 2013, 09:58:25 PM »

Milwaukee Sewerage District Spills over 100 times More in One Day than the BP Deepwater Drilling Rig!

Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District is one of the worst polluters in the country!

04man · « **Reply #96 on:** August 31, 2013, 10:19:36 PM »

It is too bad how badly we've polluted the water.
I've heard from both sides of the family how the pollution in Lake Erie would burn.

WI_Woodsman · « **Reply #97 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:02:55 PM »

Quote from: 04man on August 31, 2013, 10:19:36 PM

It is too bad how badly we've polluted the water.
I've heard from both sides of the family how the pollution in Lake Erie would burn.

YIKES! Just about every water source should be treated as suspect nowadays with all the road run off, pesticides and fertilizers. Bacteria and viruses are almost the least of your worries compared to these man made chemicals.

PetrifiedWood · « **Reply #98 on:** September 01, 2013, 08:17:00 PM »

Well done guys!

Gryphon · « **Reply #99 on:** September 10, 2013, 07:28:54 PM »

OK, so I'm late. Oh well. Looked like fun and I finally came along to see whats been up last night.
I live in the desert...obtaining water naturally here involves a public utility system and a tap to twist. So I scrounged a 2 liter soda bottle, grabbed my canteen and took advantage of the monsoon drizzle we had.

Two hours later...32 ounces.

News:

Author Topic: Monthly Project - August 2013 (Read 51386 times)