Blades and Bushlore

Bushlore Topics => Country and Rural Living Skills => Topic started by: JohnE on December 24, 2016, 08:02:22 PM

Title: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 24, 2016, 08:02:22 PM
My wife and I are looking at some farmland in Oregon upon which we hope to build a log home.

We're still in the looking stage but we've found some very promising possibilities.

Will be updating as time and progress develops.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 24, 2016, 08:58:26 PM
Best of luck!
Do you plan on using native trees, or are you thinking about a "log package" from a supplier?
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 30, 2016, 02:00:03 PM
Best of luck!
Do you plan on using native trees, or are you thinking about a "log package" from a supplier?

We're still at the property acquisition stage but I'm leaning towards a hybrid of both.

I've been consulting with a friend who's been building a pretty amazing log cabin for the last 10 years. He used a system whereby he designed and planned the building and then sought out quotes for a complete set of logs based on his plans from various log suppliers. The supplier he chose did the math and then shipped him the trimmed, debarked logs in bulk. He built the cabin and ended up with 1 or 2 logs leftover when all was said and done.

That's pretty impressive to me.

The complete "Kit" method is something we're also considering. There are some very distinct advantages to it but they come at a cost.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 30, 2016, 02:44:57 PM
Congrats ....Love log cabins.
We bought a custom made Amish built "cabin".....not a house.....size being the difference.

Need to have chinking checked and re-stain....this year.

They do have some special requirements.. ...

Keep us posted. 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 30, 2016, 02:46:12 PM
Best of luck!
Do you plan on using native trees, or are you thinking about a "log package" from a supplier?

We're still at the property acquisition stage but I'm leaning towards a hybrid of both.

I've been consulting with a friend who's been building a pretty amazing log cabin for the last 10 years. He used a system whereby he designed and planned the building and then sought out quotes for a complete set of logs based on his plans from various log suppliers. The supplier he chose did the math and then shipped him the trimmed, debarked logs in bulk. He built the cabin and ended up with 1 or 2 logs leftover when all was said and done.

That's pretty impressive to me.

The complete "Kit" method is something we're also considering. There are some very distinct advantages to it but they come at a cost.

Onward...
The first case is what I was referencing.  Just a suggestion, but if you are looking for a supplier to pre-cut and ship logs to Oregon, check with the Canadians.  I'd bet you a fifth of Crown Royal that a U.S. log supplier buys his logs from Canada, and resells them to you.  You can't believe how many log trucks with house logs I see crossing the border every month in the Spring and Summer.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on December 30, 2016, 04:01:56 PM
Years ago, I remember seeing tons of those log kit-home  builders around Kalispell and the Bitterroot valley......don't know the origin of the logs, but some of them got pretty palatial.  We saw lots of big log homes that were for sale all over the mountain regions of western Montana last summer......people must be running out of money up there. :shrug:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: PetrifiedWood on December 30, 2016, 04:06:36 PM
Good luck, I hope you get it!

If you do, please keep us updated with pics of the process. I would love to see it come together.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 30, 2016, 04:47:01 PM
Did a lot of research to arrive on the decision for our cabin.

We did not have any log timber to speak out on our 10 acres.....and even if we did...nothing around big enough to make into logs...

Take a LOT of logs....and big enough to build with....
So looked into the kits.....
One company had a guy the had built several on his development......pa ckage deal....like 250k up...sg footage 900 sq ft up.

I went to look at them as I just wanted to see what they looked like....with OUT DW standing there saying...Ooooh, This is nice!...(Yeah, no ship....500K)...

Reason I looked is that the same company sold kits.....starting around 50K...up...for use on MY property.

Good start is figuring .....double the cost of the kit....to put up and close in.....then another same amount to finish off any amenities..
Property and site prep is up to you as well.

Our decision was a 16' X 40' closed in cabin, with 8' porch built wit 8"  tongue and groove "D" shaped logs that were milled on their site.
Paid 25K in 2005.

I did all the finish work and unities...
The site prep, excavation, well, septic/drain field that was done first.

When looking for land....
CHECK....access road, power, well depth if (possible), perk for septic...zoning and mineral rights.
Most all can be worked with....just a lot more expensive.
Good luck
 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: NewEnglandBushcraft on December 30, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
:thumbsup: Good luck, looks like you're going to have an exciting year  :banana:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 30, 2016, 07:17:18 PM
Years ago, I remember seeing tons of those log kit-home  builders around Kalispell and the Bitterroot valley......don't know the origin of the logs, but some of them got pretty palatial.  We saw lots of big log homes that were for sale all over the mountain regions of western Montana last summer......people must be running out of money up there. :shrug:
If you're talking 20+ years back, the logs might have been native. Logging restrictions are such now that the lumbermen are struggling just to make 2x4's, let alone house logs.  We've have 2 local mills close in the past 15 years.
Yes, there are many for sale up here.  And good luck finding one, even on 5 acres, for under $400,000!

...
Take a LOT of logs....and big enough to build with....
So looked into the kits.....
One company had a guy the had built several on his development......pa ckage deal....like 250k up...sg footage 900 sq ft up.

I went to look at them as I just wanted to see what they looked like....with OUT DW standing there saying...Ooooh, This is nice!...(Yeah, no ship....500K)...

Reason I looked is that the same company sold kits.....starting around 50K...up...for use on MY property.

Good start is figuring .....double the cost of the kit....to put up and close in.....then another same amount to finish off any amenities..
Property and site prep is up to you as well.

Our decision was a 16' X 40' closed in cabin, with 8' porch built wit 8"  tongue and groove "D" shaped logs that were milled on their site.
Paid 25K in 2005.

I did all the finish work and unities...
The site prep, excavation, well, septic/drain field that was done first.

When looking for land....
CHECK....access road, power, well depth if (possible), perk for septic...zoning and mineral rights.
Most all can be worked with....just a lot more expensive.
Good luck
 

That's why if you find one already standing, on acreage, it's going to carry a half-million $$$ price tag!


And all this in an area where the nearest job market is 75+ miles away.....
If you're a retired airline pilot with a fat 401K, then c'mon up!
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 30, 2016, 09:02:51 PM
In 2005 a 16 X 30 ft cabin was $16K.......we added options.....
Don't know what they are now......
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 31, 2016, 12:28:15 AM
It's gonna be interesting...I got my wife 5 different books about log home building for Christmas, her birthday present is already hiding in my workshop, it's a double bit axe.

She's at least as excited about the potential house as I am.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 31, 2016, 12:31:40 AM
Did a lot of research to arrive on the decision for our cabin.

We did not have any log timber to speak out on our 10 acres.....and even if we did...nothing around big enough to make into logs...

Take a LOT of logs....and big enough to build with....
So looked into the kits.....
One company had a guy the had built several on his development......pa ckage deal....like 250k up...sg footage 900 sq ft up.

I went to look at them as I just wanted to see what they looked like....with OUT DW standing there saying...Ooooh, This is nice!...(Yeah, no ship....500K)...

Reason I looked is that the same company sold kits.....starting around 50K...up...for use on MY property.

Good start is figuring .....double the cost of the kit....to put up and close in.....then another same amount to finish off any amenities..
Property and site prep is up to you as well.

Our decision was a 16' X 40' closed in cabin, with 8' porch built wit 8"  tongue and groove "D" shaped logs that were milled on their site.
Paid 25K in 2005.

I did all the finish work and unities...
The site prep, excavation, well, septic/drain field that was done first.

When looking for land....
CHECK....access road, power, well depth if (possible), perk for septic...zoning and mineral rights.
Most all can be worked with....just a lot more expensive.
Good luck
 

The land we've found has already had a lot of the necessary prep work done. It's been approved for a home, has a rough driveway cut out, been perc tested and tentatively approved for septic. Even has a creek running thru it. Oregon has some interesting zoning and other property usage issues that I'm learning more about as we progress.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 31, 2016, 08:28:20 AM

The land we've found has already had a lot of the necessary prep work done. It's been approved for a home, has a rough driveway cut out, been perc tested and tentatively approved for septic. Even has a creek running thru it. Oregon has some interesting zoning and other property usage issues that I'm learning more about as we progress.
Let's hope this parcel doesn't carry any caveats that are going to sneak up on you.
One family I know followed their "Montana Dream" and bought 5 acres north of town. After building their home, they found out they were limited to 5 chickens, and 1 rabbit. No horses, sheep, goats or pigs.
Ignorance on their part, but a real crimp in their dream.
It's been a real problem here with out-of-State developers buying up land and then imposing caveats inconsistent with local life styles.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on December 31, 2016, 09:56:25 AM
Yes, you have to review the title policy and copies of any and all covenants that have been placed on the ground.  You also have to visit with the local governmental folks regarding ordinance restrictions on use.  If you are using a Realtor make him do some of the work and get it in writing. 

Covenants on the ground can be restricting as all get out on your ability to use the ground in the ways you might want to.  If there is a good side to covenants they will prevent some junk, shoddy structures, and too much stuff on too little land area from happening.  We are far enough out that development won't occur in our lifetime but close to town there are some real nightmares.

Covenants can be good things though.  One subdivision of 3 to 5 acre lots with no covenants is near the small town we travel to frequently.  The variety and disparity of housing and outbuildings is incredible.  One family builds a nice structure and it is a clean lot with nice fence and a couple of nice sheds.  Next door is an old single-wide trailer just hauled in and put on blocks.  Half resided with pine boards with the remaining half various stages of dilapidated metal pieces.  A yard full of junk cars and other disabled machinery along with piles of old building materials.  Horses graze on a two acre fenced in flat spot that has not seen a blade of grass in five years.  This eyesore sits on the main entrance road to the subdivision and offers potential buyers of adjacent and nearby lots a view of what can and will happen.  Sales have been slow.

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 31, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
Yes, you have to review the title policy and copies of any and all covenants that have been placed on the ground.  You also have to visit with the local governmental folks regarding ordinance restrictions on use.  If you are using a Realtor make him do some of the work and get it in writing. 

Covenants on the ground can be restricting as all get out on your ability to use the ground in the ways you might want to.  If there is a good side to covenants they will prevent some junk, shoddy structures, and too much stuff on too little land area from happening.  We are far enough out that development won't occur in our lifetime but close to town there are some real nightmares.

Covenants can be good things though.  One subdivision of 3 to 5 acre lots with no covenants is near the small town we travel to frequently.  The variety and disparity of housing and outbuildings is incredible.  One family builds a nice structure and it is a clean lot with nice fence and a couple of nice sheds.  Next door is an old single-wide trailer just hauled in and put on blocks.  Half resided with pine boards with the remaining half various stages of dilapidated metal pieces.  A yard full of junk cars and other disabled machinery along with piles of old building materials.  Horses graze on a two acre fenced in flat spot that has not seen a blade of grass in five years.  This eyesore sits on the main entrance road to the subdivision and offers potential buyers of adjacent and nearby lots a view of what can and will happen.  Sales have been slow.
All true enough.
I've never bought a residence with resale value as a main motivation, but millions of folks do.
Thanks for finding the term that escaped me, Stan: covenants.
Without covenants, neighbors' only recourse is County and/or City governments regarding "nuisance" ordinances.
BUT, covenants are very hard to enforce without the authority of a Home Owner's Association over-seeing the development.  And once you get under the thumb of an HOA, you are going to be told how short to cut your grass, where to park you cars, and be subject to a multitude of ridiculous restrictions.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 31, 2016, 10:59:07 AM

The land we've found has already had a lot of the necessary prep work done. It's been approved for a home, has a rough driveway cut out, been perc tested and tentatively approved for septic. Even has a creek running thru it. Oregon has some interesting zoning and other property usage issues that I'm learning more about as we progress.
Let's hope this parcel doesn't carry any caveats that are going to sneak up on you.
One family I know followed their "Montana Dream" and bought 5 acres north of town. After building their home, they found out they were limited to 5 chickens, and 1 rabbit. No horses, sheep, goats or pigs.
Ignorance on their part, but a real crimp in their dream.
It's been a real problem here with out-of-State developers buying up land and then imposing caveats inconsistent with local life styles.

Good points...."approved for a home"....may have limits on size.....and completion window of one year.
I know these will not apply to everyone....but is an example of creative thinking, interpretation
 of rules. ...local ways (city people vs local)

Our lot had several Covenants .....from the developer.
No mobile homes....
800 sq. feet min....closed in with in a year....building need permit and inspection before occupancy.   

Local/state zoning...
Our township min of 5 acres to BUILD on.....Township next door...30 acres.
Driveway grade limits.
50ft Easement along the river...for public use.

Power company, no hook up unless the home is complete.

Now there are creative options....This is where local contractors and a USDA Ag number comes in.

Neighbor crops 12 acres so that qualifies me for the Ag number.
 
To start.... used a travel trailer and shed.....
Power isn't residential ....Ag seasonal rate for out buildings....shed.. .plug in trailers.
Almost went with a "yard light" for $15 bucks a month...and an outlet

Driveway wasn't a driveway to start...was Ag access road.....later modded to NICE Ag access road (driveway....grand fathered in)

Log cabin was considered a "portable building" (Came by semi)... On blocks/sonnet tubes...so no permits needed...)....
Was able to do electrical and plumbing....get that inspected.....only requirement was a disconnect on power pole....Mobil home style.
Can still have everything disconnected,  porch removed and haul off.

Power there and septic was perked, well drilled and state inspected before my Bigazz "shed".... cabin showed up.

Local assessor came by leaves a note that they valued the building for what I paid for it....and to let me know I was being taxed.....

Bingo....I'm for real.

Long story.... but important example of plugging into local contacts....with the questions:

I want to get from here to there...what do I have to do?...
Do you know anyone that can do the work.?

Sometimes this is worth spending some time and money.... buying brewski's or attending the local Veterans and church dinners.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 31, 2016, 11:07:06 AM
Who do you want for a neighbor.....LOL?
This?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg.html)

Or this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg.html)

Land was sold....guy that bought it....got rid of the yurt.... and built this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: xj35s on December 31, 2016, 11:35:51 AM
I believe that this is the best log cabin premanufactured home worth investing in. They build it before shipping to make sure everything is right. They assemble it on site. You have to do the finish work, joists/roof, windows,  and wiring/plumbing.  You will need to add those costs to the house total.

I believe they own the land the logs come from. We didn't get one because the wife thought it would not blend in with our neighborhood. Wish I had though. This modular is crap.

http://www.canadaslogpeople.com/index.html
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 31, 2016, 11:42:05 AM
Who do you want for a neighbor.....LOL?
This?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg.html)

Or this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg.html)

Land was sold....guy that bought it....got rid of the yurt.... and built this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg.html)
The question probably isn't directed at me, but my answer might surprise.
Let's call them #1 (nice stick house w/porch), #2 (yurt), and #3 (slab-built "shack")
I'll relate these neighbors to my particular area
#1 could be a retired couple, or younger couple with a desire to live in the country in a turn-key operation. The only "sweat equity" that interests them is planting a few fruit trees, and a tendency to bring their city comforts and attitudes with them.
#2 appears to be "camping out" on his own property. Bought a few acres to get away from town, and do as he pleases without the hassle of "public lands" use.
#3 would actually be my choice for a neighbor.  Pay-as-you-build approach.  Basic needs covered.  Probably a whole lot less likely to complain about my crowing rooster, or my goat eating his noxious weed crop.  This "shack" actually looks like a lot of folks here who build a livable dwelling while constructing a more permanent home on the property.  I know several who spent 1 or 2 winters in small campers while building their log, or stick home, including milling their own lumber.

I'll pick #3 for a neighbor.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 31, 2016, 12:38:12 PM
Who do you want for a neighbor.....LOL?
This?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/cabin%20front%20crop_zpsy9axapqv.jpg.html)

Or this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/3e9846a0-e0a2-4a3a-8752-1d500d8f3b33_zps5281dc63.jpg.html)

Land was sold....guy that bought it....got rid of the yurt.... and built this?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF1594_zpsj0awocpa.jpg.html)
The question probably isn't directed at me, but my answer might surprise.
Let's call them #1 (nice stick house w/porch), #2 (yurt), and #3 (slab-built "shack")
I'll relate these neighbors to my particular area
#1 could be a retired couple, or younger couple with a desire to live in the country in a turn-key operation. The only "sweat equity" that interests them is planting a few fruit trees, and a tendency to bring their city comforts and attitudes with them.
#2 appears to be "camping out" on his own property. Bought a few acres to get away from town, and do as he pleases without the hassle of "public lands" use.
#3 would actually be my choice for a neighbor.  Pay-as-you-build approach.  Basic needs covered.  Probably a whole lot less likely to complain about my crowing rooster, or my goat eating his noxious weed crop.  This "shack" actually looks like a lot of folks here who build a livable dwelling while constructing a more permanent home on the property.  I know several who spent 1 or 2 winters in small campers while building their log, or stick home, including milling their own lumber.

I'll pick #3 for a neighbor.

LOL...#1 is my log "cabin"....delivered by truck....Not a house,  per se......

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0109crop.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0109crop.jpg.html)

#2 was the up grade for the blue bus in the flood plain....
This was a squatter that got moved out to sell the land to #3
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF0099.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF0099.jpg.html)


#3....This was the result....after a couple of years.....and land sold again....
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF1663_zpskgl7djq7.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF1663_zpskgl7djq7.jpg.html)

Now.....been a couple of years....
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF1884_zpszqllabvy.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF1884_zpszqllabvy.jpg.html)

Yeah It does surprise me a bit you pick #3...but then again  seems a lot of "cabins" start out like that...and get improved...some don't....
h
Have to admit a payas you go approach is the only way to some to get by....

But
I sticking with my log cabin....

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0354.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0354.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 31, 2016, 01:25:47 PM
I believe that this is the best log cabin premanufactured home worth investing in. They build it before shipping to make sure everything is right. They assemble it on site. You have to do the finish work, joists/roof, windows,  and wiring/plumbing.  You will need to add those costs to the house total.

I believe they own the land the logs come from. We didn't get one because the wife thought it would not blend in with our neighborhood. Wish I had though. This modular is crap.

http://www.canadaslogpeople.com/index.html

Thanks for the tip, I added them to the ever growing files of info.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on December 31, 2016, 02:49:23 PM
Thanks for finding the term that escaped me, Stan: covenants.
Without covenants, neighbors' only recourse is County and/or City governments regarding "nuisance" ordinances.
BUT, covenants are very hard to enforce without the authority of a Home Owner's Association over-seeing the development.  And once you get under the thumb of an HOA, you are going to be told how short to cut your grass, where to park you cars, and be subject to a multitude of ridiculous restrictions.

You are 100% correct on what HOA restrictions can be......... ridiculous.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 31, 2016, 07:25:25 PM
Nice modular, Hunter! And a good job "proving up" on it!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on December 31, 2016, 08:17:53 PM
Hunter that is a great cabin.  You ought to take a bunch of photos on the inside too.  Looks like a winner.  Nice site too, great view you have there.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Unknown on December 31, 2016, 08:58:07 PM
Hunter, what is that your house is sitting on? I see the trees out back in your first pic. In the next to last photo, trees are in the same place, but there is a door down low- never seen anything like that.

John, maybe all the B&B axemen can come up; hew and cut joints for you( you do the layout) of course everyone would have to head home before you got to rafters and purlins. Hope it works our for you anyway you get there.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on December 31, 2016, 09:25:30 PM
Hunter, what is that your house is sitting on? I see the trees out back in your first pic. In the next to last photo, trees are in the same place, but there is a door down low- never seen anything like that.

John, maybe all the B&B axemen can come up; hew and cut joints for you( you do the layout) of course everyone would have to head home before you got to rafters and purlins. Hope it works our for you anyway you get there.

The last pic of the cabin on the hill and basement isn't mine...is a work in process on the same lot as the blue bus , yurt, and  shack on the hill....... that was all removed.....and cabin like mine was set on a foundation.

These pic were posted to show the journey and what can be done...given enough time, hard work and working with what you have....
Yeah have some more pic's...but this isn't my thread...and I kinda feel I stepped on it a bit.
That wasn't the intention....
Lots of stuff involved and have traveling the journey,... (1998 to present)... just wanted help out on those little details that help you get from here to there.
Will leave you with on last pic....
"The Place".....original with travel trailers, Taj-ma shed......in use from 1990 to 2004.
You can see the new cabin up hill and behind the trailers.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Unknown on December 31, 2016, 09:40:49 PM
That explains why I couldn't reconcile the dormers either. I like your dormers, good to have on a simple gable.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on January 01, 2017, 12:05:02 AM
Where's your cabin located Hunter?

It looks very nice from what you've shown so far.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on January 01, 2017, 10:15:26 AM
Where's your cabin located Hunter?

It looks very nice from what you've shown so far.

It's located on about 16 acres in south west Wisconsin....on the Kickapoo River.
Bought 10-1/2 acres....then added 6 more.

My west boundary is the township line...our township has a 5 acre limit....but the other township has a 30 acre minimum....neighbor got in with his cabin before the change.....Another one of those pesky details.

He also had to buy 8 more acres to get the driveway grade in the township rules...

We like it...... but still just a 640 sq ft cabin with a couple of lofts....not a house...
That was our "Master plan"....so keep in mind what you want in the end......for your use......

I do kinda collect usable antiques...(DW says junk)

 (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF0126.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF0126.jpg.html)

 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on January 01, 2017, 11:53:23 AM
 :thumbsup:  Great porch.  Guy could sit and spit off that all day long.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on January 01, 2017, 01:27:43 PM
Or shoot off of it.......

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/DSCF0444.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/DSCF0444.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on January 01, 2017, 03:32:30 PM
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on January 01, 2017, 03:51:23 PM
That's just one of the things I miss about living on the home place.....opening the front door and firing a few high-powers into the bluff.  Relieved a lot of tension! :drool:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on January 01, 2017, 05:25:09 PM
I can't find the sign I inherited from my late best bud, but I see they are still available to remind guests of proper protocol.

(http://www.creationsandcollections.com/App_Themes/WallStreet/ProductImages/250/RE400.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on January 01, 2017, 06:07:57 PM
Guilty in spades OP.  :P
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: imnukensc on January 01, 2017, 06:37:03 PM
I can't find the sign I inherited from my late best bud, but I see they are still available to remind guests of proper protocol.

(http://www.creationsandcollections.com/App_Themes/WallStreet/ProductImages/250/RE400.jpg)

I'm guilty!
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on January 01, 2017, 06:42:10 PM
Wieners and porch decks go together like peas and carrots. :cheers:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on January 01, 2017, 10:53:01 PM
I can't find the sign I inherited from my late best bud, but I see they are still available to remind guests of proper protocol.

(http://www.creationsandcollections.com/App_Themes/WallStreet/ProductImages/250/RE400.jpg)

You just go around the back of the house......ladies as well......LOL

Funny you should bring that up.....
When we were using the travel trailers...there were decking in front to keep out of the mud....
Standing there at the edge, one day, taking a wizz....looking down at how tall the grass was,... around my spot.
Thought ...Hummmmm...I wonder???

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on January 02, 2017, 09:50:27 AM
LOL!  Someone wrote in a "natural remedies" book that pouring urine on weeds would kill them.  Nobody told the weeds.  Obviously one of these "tips" that gets read, and repeated without any practical experience.
Urea is a time-tested fertilizer.  But the diet and hormones of the host play a big role.  From my experience, the urine of a female dog will kill vegetation in a heartbeat. But once the female is spade, it has no affect on grass/plants. :shrug:
Ha! Talk about thread derails...sorry...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: imnukensc on January 02, 2017, 11:11:59 AM
LOL!  Someone wrote in a "natural remedies" book that pouring urine on weeds would kill them.  Nobody told the weeds.  Obviously one of these "tips" that gets read, and repeated without any practical experience.
Urea is a time-tested fertilizer.  But the diet and hormones of the host play a big role.  From my experience, the urine of a female dog will kill vegetation in a heartbeat. But once the female is spade, it has no affect on grass/plants. :shrug:
Ha! Talk about thread derails...sorry...

Well, since you brought it up.............my spayed female seems to have no effect on vegetation, but my neutered male can kill all types of vegetation.  If I could just take the little SOB around and squeeze him, I wouldn't need RoundUp.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on January 02, 2017, 01:36:55 PM
Side note...
Once paid $4.95 for a quart of "K-Grow" fertilizer......Fro m K-Mart.

Said on the back....2% Urea, %1 inert contents, %97 water.....
Made in Japan.

Sooo.... I paid $5 bucks for Japanese pizz.....LOL

Never worried about it sense.
BTW Female dogs do kill grass.....wood ashes sprinkled on the spots helps.

How did this go for log homes to dog pee..? 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Unknown on January 02, 2017, 01:39:06 PM
I can't find the sign I inherited from my late best bud, but I see they are still available to remind guests of proper protocol.

(http://www.creationsandcollections.com/App_Themes/WallStreet/ProductImages/250/RE400.jpg)

You just go around the back of the house......ladies as well......LOL

Funny you should bring that up.....
When we were using the travel trailers...there were decking in front to keep out of the mud....
Standing there at the edge, one day, taking a wizz....looking down at how tall the grass was,... around my spot.
Thought ...Hummmmm...I wonder???


Plant a couple short rows of cotton, use your fertilizer regular, and you'd be set
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on January 02, 2017, 07:27:26 PM
....
"The Place".....original with travel trailers, Taj-ma shed......in use from 1990 to 2004.
You can see the new cabin up hill and behind the trailers.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg.html)
I missed this post somehow. So you were one of "those neighbors" for 14 years yourself? :lol: :taunt:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hunter63 on January 02, 2017, 09:20:55 PM
....
"The Place".....original with travel trailers, Taj-ma shed......in use from 1990 to 2004.
You can see the new cabin up hill and behind the trailers.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/hunter63/media/new%20album/PICT0135.jpg.html)
I missed this post somehow. So you were one of "those neighbors" for 14 years yourself? :lol: :taunt:

Yes sir I/we are/were....but still here........cabin 12 years ago....and all paid for.
LOL

The bus/yurt guy was a squatter ....gone.
Shack cabin guy, ...land contract...ran out of money.....I see this a lot.
New Amish cabin on basement ....been there for a year....we will see......

Next door real good neighbor to the west, smaller Amish cabin....been there the same amount of time as ours....no well and uses a outhouse......
Retired last April....kinda waiting to see what his next step will be.

Cabin to the east...just changed hands....guy paid about 30k for land and cabin ..12 years ago...sold for 90K no well, out house, no power.....seem OK.

Farm to the east. was one of the original farm.....that was developed...has changed hands, several times in 25 years...
First lady from Chicago...bought as an rental investment....Then rented to some a-wholes.....decided what's mine is his, and what his didn't belong to him anyway....lasted a year or so....Glad to see him go.

Next family moved in.... repaired old farm...making the "homestead" gardens, chickens, couple of goats......no insurance...had medical problems and needed a new well......ran out of money...sold out in about 6 years.

Next people moved from Alaska...she was kind of a PITA, but was a nurse. as was a adult kid.
Husband was a Posse Comitatus member.....has signs posted.....
They made money with foster children....then he went to jail for molestation.

She needed money....wanted to sell her farm for big bucks, then buy the 2 lots nest to me......
I managed to buy the 6 acres next to me before her, actually with a phone call to the realtor ....so she didn't have both lots...and sold out.

That lot has the Amish cabin that just sold.....we will see.

People that bought the farm /homestead......He lives there and works from home doing interweb stuff.
She still lives and works a lot in Chicago...

Talked to him while helping him pick tomatoes last fall...for canning......said he had a good year...ONLY cost him 250k last year... for expenses and remodeling...so far good neighbor.

Point is: The Building doesn't matter all that much....the people do,....and owners are better neighbors than renters.

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on January 02, 2017, 10:31:54 PM
Boy is that last sentence true.  People do matter.  At this time we have good neighbors on all sides.  Wasn't always that way though.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on February 04, 2017, 10:45:02 AM
A quick update.

An acquaintance that lives near where we're hoping to buy went and scouted the potential property. He gave it a big thumbs down so we're back in the land scouting phase.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Fitzer on August 07, 2017, 06:59:55 AM
My wife and I are looking at some farmland in Oregon upon which we hope to build a log home.

We're still in the looking stage but we've found some very promising possibilities.

Will be updating as time and progress develops.
The best of luck with your venture ,I envy you I have to say ,was building a holiday home here in Ireland and looking for planning permission for a log cabin . No luck the local council would not allow it ,say it was not in keeping with the locality ,what a load of old rot .
After holidaying in the states and seeing all the fantastic log cabins I got the bug .
So again the very best of luck,let us know how you are doing .
Regards Mick
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: PetrifiedWood on September 03, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
My wife and I are looking at some farmland in Oregon upon which we hope to build a log home.

We're still in the looking stage but we've found some very promising possibilities.

Will be updating as time and progress develops.
The best of luck with your venture ,I envy you I have to say ,was building a holiday home here in Ireland and looking for planning permission for a log cabin . No luck the local council would not allow it ,say it was not in keeping with the locality ,what a load of old rot .
After holidaying in the states and seeing all the fantastic log cabins I got the bug .
So again the very best of luck,let us know how you are doing .
Regards Mick

Was it the architectural style they objected to?
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on September 06, 2017, 09:04:46 AM
An update...

We've given up on Oregon.

Trying for New Mexico instead.

Heading back there in a few days hoping to buy a nice, undeveloped 30 acre lot south of Santa Fe.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on September 06, 2017, 09:05:18 AM
An update...

We've given up on Oregon.

Trying for New Mexico instead.

Heading back there in a few days hoping to buy a nice, undeveloped 30 acre lot south of Santa Fe.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on September 06, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
Good luck in New Mexico. 

Might have to consider an adobe house.  I lived in one over fifty years ago and it is the best thing I ever lived in.  Warm in winter, cool in the summer.  Easy to maintain.  There is something about them that appeals to me beyond just the sticks and mud. 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Unknown on September 06, 2017, 01:03:29 PM
An update...

We've given up on Oregon.

Trying for New Mexico instead.

Heading back there in a few days hoping to buy a nice, undeveloped 30 acre lot south of Santa Fe.

Onward...

That's a considerable change in scenery.

What are you looking for in a site? Undeveloped is cool if you want to be off-grid. The cost of getting utilities brought in can be a real bummer.
Best luck
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on September 06, 2017, 09:15:40 PM
We'd been looking in Arizona and in New Mexico before we started looking in Oregon but yeah, it's quite a difference.

We're looking at some 30-40 acre lots in various states of development.

The biggest issue is of course water. We've looked at properties with and without wells. The presence of one greatly influences the asking price of course.

When we find the right place we'll be going adobe instead of the log cabin. There's no sense in fighting what's worked for hundreds of years in the New Mexico environment.

We leave next Thursday on what we're hoping will be a buying trip.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on September 23, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
On our way home from New Mexico. Waiting for a plane.

We've narrowed down our choices considerably, it's between two 40 acre lots and one ten acre lot.

They all have existing wells.

Waiting to get some more info from our agent before we make an offer.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on September 23, 2017, 06:37:13 PM
Are these near Sante Fe or further north?
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on September 24, 2017, 01:48:06 PM
Are these near Sante Fe or further north?

Near Santa Fe.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 01, 2017, 10:35:25 AM
Well we've put in an offer on a 54 acre lot south of Santa Fe.

Now we wait...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on October 01, 2017, 10:48:48 AM
Do you have any pictures of that area? ???
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 01, 2017, 11:39:13 PM
No I don't.

I've been there several times and know what it looks like but the only photos we've seen are in the property listing.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on October 02, 2017, 08:52:46 AM
Do you have a link?  I promise not to try to outbid you. :rofl:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 02, 2017, 09:14:23 AM
I will, just as soon as we finish negotiatin...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 21, 2017, 05:10:03 PM
Looks like the 54 acre lot isn't gonna happen.

Been on and off the market for 10 years, never been built on, one of the previous owners put in a water meter, it's also got electrical and phone available.

Sellers can't decide what they want to do, offered to partially finance the sale then they reneged, counter-offer came in and they would barely budge on the price. Their own agent doesn't know what they want to do.

We've given them our absolute, bottom line cash offer which coincidentally is what property in and around the area is going for per acre, our agent also included language that basically says the only thing we'll consider further negotiating are some of our contingency costs. We're not gonna move on our Monday offer.

Get the feeling they're gonna turn us down again. I don't get why people list real estate for sale when they obviously aren't willing or able to actually sell it.  Makes no sense to me at all. We're the only people to ever put in an offer on the land in 10 years of listings.

We've given them until Monday to fish or cut bait.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on October 21, 2017, 09:02:48 PM
The same thing is happening around here. People bought property (developed and undeveloped) 15-20 years ago and got taken to the cleaners. Now they're trying to sell it for 3x the current market value and won't budge on the price.
The timber industry tanked 7-8 years ago here, and the big Country Club never happened. There are subdivided "estate" parcels that no one can give away, but nobody can lower their prices because they're in over their heads already. The real estate investors have taken a bath over the last decade. They drove the market up with a false economy and false promises.  The smart ones left the area, leaving landscaped vacant lots and abandoned golf courses to the deer, bear and elk. 
Poor babies....
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 24, 2017, 07:46:48 PM
And then...

We've heard back from the sellers.

They have tentatively accepted our cash offer as well as our various contingencies with a couple of their own. They want to close the deal in January, most likely for personal tax reasons and they wanted an assurance that we weren't acting on behalf of another buyer or as an agent?

Our agent thinks they've got a couple loose screws but we went ahead and stipulated that we are buying it for personal use even though we could theoretically sell it or give it away the minute we get the deed and while we'd hoped to get it done sooner, we agreed to set the closing date in January, on the date of our wedding anniversary as it turns out.

So barring more shenanigans from them, we'll be the new owners in a couple of months!

Still don't get why people make it so hard to give them money but...

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 24, 2017, 07:47:51 PM
Do you have a link?  I promise not to try to outbid you. :rofl:

Link will be available on January 5th...;^)
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on October 25, 2017, 08:52:00 AM
The January closing makes sense as there is likely to be a smaller capital gains rate for 2018 that 2017 and if there isn't it puts a long delay in having to pay the tax.

The other two make no sense.  If you give verbal assurance it is for you own personal use and you are not acting as an agent they likely have no recourse even if you do sell it to a third party.  If it is a written assurance and you sell the property quickly they could very well file a suit should you change your mind and put the property on the market even though you would likely win in the end.  They may be trying to prevent someone that they had a problem with, or simply don't like, from making an end run on the property.  These kind of things are ridiculous but lots of strange stuff happens with people these days.   
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on October 26, 2017, 10:58:47 AM
The January closing makes sense as there is likely to be a smaller capital gains rate for 2018 that 2017 and if there isn't it puts a long delay in having to pay the tax.

The other two make no sense.  If you give verbal assurance it is for you own personal use and you are not acting as an agent they likely have no recourse even if you do sell it to a third party.  If it is a written assurance and you sell the property quickly they could very well file a suit should you change your mind and put the property on the market even though you would likely win in the end.  They may be trying to prevent someone that they had a problem with, or simply don't like, from making an end run on the property.  These kind of things are ridiculous but lots of strange stuff happens with people these days.   

The last part is what we're thinking is going on. I thought my agents head was gonna explode while he was explaining what they wanted. Ironically, had they taken one of our other offers they would have gotten more money out of us by financing a portion of the sale which would have given them the power to stop us from re-selling at least until the financing was paid off. Their original listing stated that they were "motivated sellers willing to finance" which turned out not to be the case at all. We offered them what our and their agent agreed was a very fair offer for more than we just agreed to pay them but they turned that offer down...because it turns out they didn't really want to finance anything.

Onward to the lawyers office for legal review...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 10, 2017, 12:36:32 PM
Slowly but surely...

Learned from a 3rd party that there are water lines running across our property that weren't disclosed...

When we informed the sellers agent the seller suddenly remembered that yes, they did run some  water lines to an adjoining property across our right of way, in fact they ran one to our proposed building site too!

I'm amazed once again at how people who are supposedly trying to sell us this land continue to come up with reasons for us to cancel the transaction and walk away.

They've already let it be known that they are in real need of the cash we've offered yet they continue to hinder getting it.

Onward...

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: hayshaker on November 11, 2017, 06:15:48 AM
mabey you need to do a thourough searh at the county permit office
for any other surprizes
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 10:50:29 AM
We're doing as much searching as we can considering we're in California.  Our agent and local attorney are doing a good job of keeping up with the sellers shenanigans so far.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the seller could simply forget that they installed water lines to two separate properties that would have cost a few thousand dollars as well as some excavating work when it was time to disclose the info but suddenly remember when we told them we were ready to walk away with our deposit. Now they've not only remembered they offered to draw us a map with the location of the water pipes...

Onward...

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on November 11, 2017, 11:25:18 AM
Have you ever talked to the seller personally, or are you letting the agent and lawyer act as 'go-betweens' for you? :shrug:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on November 11, 2017, 11:53:17 AM
Water lines, unless they are privately owned and even then it is rare, have to have a right of way or easement and the title policy should have shown this.  Did you get a title policy?
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 01:22:14 PM
Have you ever talked to the seller personally, or are you letting the agent and lawyer act as 'go-betweens' for you? :shrug:

I'd like to but they're incredibly hard to reach even for their own agent.

They live a couple hundred miles from us so it's not easy for us to talk.

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 01:29:34 PM
Water lines, unless they are privately owned and even then it is rare, have to have a right of way or easement and the title policy should have shown this.  Did you get a title policy?

We are in the process of doing that, that's why all this stuff is coming to light.

New Mexico hasn't got what I would call "normal" disclosure laws. The seller isn't required to tell us anything that isn't basically life threatening, they can answer our questions or try to explain why things are the way they are but they can also choose not to even respond. It's a different sorta place, our attorney warned us that it's still the Wild West in regards to land and water rights, that's why we hired him.

The water lines were privately installed at least 10 years ago. Our fear is that if they do in fact run under our property that we might have a problem when we go to build or excavate. We've been told that they run alongside the road but the person who says that also "forgot" that they'd been installed at all.

It's been an educational experience so far...

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on November 11, 2017, 04:00:03 PM
...
New Mexico hasn't got what I would call "normal" disclosure laws. The seller isn't required to tell us anything that isn't basically life threatening, they can answer our questions or try to explain why things are the way they are but they can also choose not to even respond. It's a different sorta place, our attorney warned us that it's still the Wild West in regards to land and water rights, that's why we hired him.
..

It might sound a little crass, but we see this quite a bit out here in Montana when folks resettle from a relatively urban location, usually from out-of-state.
A LOT of us moved from "citified" environs to places like Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, N. Mexico to get away from the dictates of society imposed by politicians and attorneys. So, yeah, there is a bit of culture shock when dealing with the way things get handled in rural areas.

I don't believe the sellers are trying to "get away with something", I'm more ready to believe that these details are (and always have been) unimportant to them.

When I moved to Montana, I came from a relatively urban area in a very strict State. I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get into trouble with local laws and codes.
I wanted to tear down and rebuild a decrepit old back porch. I inquired about a building permit. I went to Town Hall and inquired about permits. The reaction I got was a wide-eyed stare, followed by, "Permit? For what?"  When I told them, the answer I got was that building permits were only required for new construction. What I found out later was that meant that if you wanted to replace your existing house with a new one, you built new walls all around your old ones, and then tore down the old ones. No permits required.
We moved a mobile home onto the property. I asked about the "green belt" (the distance a structure must be from the property line). Again, I got "Huh?".
After a few moments of mulling over my question, the official answer was, "As long as you can get your lawnmower between the house and the fence, I guess it's okay."

Welcome to Life in the West.   :shocked:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on November 11, 2017, 05:10:11 PM
It used to be that way on permits where we live.  Then some smart ass in the building department figured out they were missing a revenue source.  Now you need a permit.   :P
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on November 11, 2017, 05:14:52 PM
It used to be that way on permits where we live.  Then some smart ass in the building department figured out they were missing a revenue source.  Now you need a permit.   :P
We don't even have a Building Department in our Town. It's all handled through the County, and State.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 08:09:06 PM
...
New Mexico hasn't got what I would call "normal" disclosure laws. The seller isn't required to tell us anything that isn't basically life threatening, they can answer our questions or try to explain why things are the way they are but they can also choose not to even respond. It's a different sorta place, our attorney warned us that it's still the Wild West in regards to land and water rights, that's why we hired him.
..

It might sound a little crass, but we see this quite a bit out here in Montana when folks resettle from a relatively urban location, usually from out-of-state.
A LOT of us moved from "citified" environs to places like Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, N. Mexico to get away from the dictates of society imposed by politicians and attorneys. So, yeah, there is a bit of culture shock when dealing with the way things get handled in rural areas.

I don't believe the sellers are trying to "get away with something", I'm more ready to believe that these details are (and always have been) unimportant to them.

When I moved to Montana, I came from a relatively urban area in a very strict State. I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get into trouble with local laws and codes.
I wanted to tear down and rebuild a decrepit old back porch. I inquired about a building permit. I went to Town Hall and inquired about permits. The reaction I got was a wide-eyed stare, followed by, "Permit? For what?"  When I told them, the answer I got was that building permits were only required for new construction. What I found out later was that meant that if you wanted to replace your existing house with a new one, you built new walls all around your old ones, and then tore down the old ones. No permits required.
We moved a mobile home onto the property. I asked about the "green belt" (the distance a structure must be from the property line). Again, I got "Huh?".
After a few moments of mulling over my question, the official answer was, "As long as you can get your lawnmower between the house and the fence, I guess it's okay."

Welcome to Life in the West.   :shocked:

I'm a live and let live guy for the most part but there have been too many issues cropping up for me to believe it's all just circumstance. I don't think I've mentioned the fact that the seller "forgot" that there was a well on the property as well as the water lines. Not to mention they tried to use a survey and covenants that were out of date and incorrect.

We're very hopeful that we'll get all this worked out and be happy in our eventual home but I don't believe for an instant that the sellers are as forgetful as they're acting, their own agent has expressed concerns about their actions. Maybe I'm a little gun shy because the previous owners of my current house were caught committing bank and real estate fraud in the midst of our sale but I'm simply looking after our interests as best I can.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on November 11, 2017, 08:28:53 PM
They didn't tell you there was a well on the property? Where did they tell you your water came from? Property with an established well is a lot more valuable than without, considering the cost of drilling one.
An acquaintance in Colorado pointed out two pieces of pasture land. He said one was worth $11K because it had no available water on it. The other he said was $45K because it had a creek running through it.
The average depth of a well in my neighborhood is 350 feet. That don't come cheap. If the land you're bargaining for has a good well, it floors me that the sellers didn't make a point of that in their asking price.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 10:12:19 PM
They didn't tell you there was a well on the property? Where did they tell you your water came from? Property with an established well is a lot more valuable than without, considering the cost of drilling one.
An acquaintance in Colorado pointed out two pieces of pasture land. He said one was worth $11K because it had no available water on it. The other he said was $45K because it had a creek running through it.
The average depth of a well in my neighborhood is 350 feet. That don't come cheap. If the land you're bargaining for has a good well, it floors me that the sellers didn't make a point of that in their asking price.

Now you know how I feel... ;D

They also "forgot" that the survey they wanted to use was inaccurate, that there isn't an electrical line running to the property as they stated and a few other things. 

The well is on a part of the property that was sold off AFTER the survey they tried to use was drawn up, it only became known about when we were asked to sign off on some covenants that had information about sharing the well with another property in it. Not a word from the sellers even though we specifically asked about all the possible water rights and availability from the very start of the purchase process.

It's funny, I don't think that the sellers are really trying to run a scam, if they are it's a mystery as to what they think they're getting away with as they turned down an offer we made a few days ago which would have netted them more money. I'm just not sure what they're trying to accomplish by failing to tell us about some fairly important things, like the existence of water on the property. I don't see any upside for them to be behaving the way they are.

My wife is pretty determined that we get this property so we're going to persevere.

Onward...

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on November 11, 2017, 10:52:03 PM
If you intend to run an electric line to this property, you had better beware that it is VERY expensive!  If you think a well is big-buck item, take a deep breath before adding electrical service! :doh:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 11, 2017, 11:21:49 PM
If you intend to run an electric line to this property, you had better beware that it is VERY expensive!  If you think a well is big-buck item, take a deep breath before adding electrical service! :doh:

At the rate we're goin I expect to find a 200 amp electrical source that they "forgot" to tell us about... ;D
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on November 12, 2017, 08:53:38 AM
This whole deal smells bad.  Given what you have shared with us on this thread I would not buy this piece of property.  The whole package on a piece of vacant ground should not have taken two hours to put together.  Their realtor is quite remiss and so is yours and your attorney. 

The price of extending electrical will astound you if it is more than a  few feet.  In addition there are negotiation points on hooking on, additional users wanting to attach to the line, and whether it is overhead or underground.  Be very careful.

The cost of drilling, piping, and pressurizing a well can run from $10,000 to $50,000 (or more) depending on the depth and the geologic conditions encountered.  There are also permits and applications that may prevent you from drilling at all.  You need that resolved before you close on the ground.  Water quality issues can result in a well being unfit for human use.

You need a title insurance policy and it better include everything about that land that is of public record.  Given the mystery water lines and missing shared well information this would kill the deal for me at this point.

Your whole experience with this piece of ground is strange, to say the least.  Weird seller, strange real estate people, no forceful input from your attorney.  Just strange. 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on November 12, 2017, 09:11:26 AM
Yeah, nothing about this property would surprise me at this point......it might even turn out to be a sacred Indian burial ground!  :doh:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 12, 2017, 09:28:41 AM
Yeah, nothing about this property would surprise me at this point......it might even turn out to be a sacred Indian burial ground!  :doh:

Well you're close...there's a cemetery on the adjacent lot.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wolfy on November 12, 2017, 09:32:41 AM
Yeah, nothing about this property would surprise me at this point......it might even turn out to be a sacred Indian burial ground!  :doh:

Well you're close...there's a cemetery on the adjacent lot.
So, there is a possibility of it being haunted by zombies, too? :rofl:
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 12, 2017, 09:48:34 AM
This whole deal smells bad.  Given what you have shared with us on this thread I would not buy this piece of property.  The whole package on a piece of vacant ground should not have taken two hours to put together.  Their realtor is quite remiss and so is yours and your attorney. 

The price of extending electrical will astound you if it is more than a  few feet.  In addition there are negotiation points on hooking on, additional users wanting to attach to the line, and whether it is overhead or underground.  Be very careful.

The cost of drilling, piping, and pressurizing a well can run from $10,000 to $50,000 (or more) depending on the depth and the geologic conditions encountered.  There are also permits and applications that may prevent you from drilling at all.  You need that resolved before you close on the ground.  Water quality issues can result in a well being unfit for human use.

You need a title insurance policy and it better include everything about that land that is of public record.  Given the mystery water lines and missing shared well information this would kill the deal for me at this point.

Your whole experience with this piece of ground is strange, to say the least.  Weird seller, strange real estate people, no forceful input from your attorney.  Just strange.

I appreciate your concerns. The overall problem is that we're in the process of getting title insurance, all of the issues that have come up have been part of that process.

We can walk away at any point without losing our deposit, we insisted on including that provision in our offer.

We've also stipulated that we can walk away if our attorney raises an objection or finds something legally amiss.

Our attorney has been advising us throughout the process and he's of the opinion that so far everything that's come up can be resolved if we want the land.

This is what I was referring to when I wrote about the different ways they have in New Mexico in regards to selling land. The buyer makes an offer and then once you're under contract as we are, all the weird and wacky stuff starts to be revealed, then the seller has to address all the problems or ignore them and the buyers decide whether to keep moving forward or not.  It's a real caveat emptor kinda place. In California the seller must disclose every kind of issue first then you take that into account when making your offer, in NM you make an offer, find out a bunch of stuff and then settle somewhere else on the sales price or just walk away.

I don't think anyone is being remiss per se, the owners are a bit eccentric and hard to deal with and I'm unhappy with their memory issues but I think it's more the state of New Mexico has some very interesting ideas of how land is sold. Our agent told us going in that we had a 50/50 chance of working everything out. He also warned us that buying land from a long time owner with multiple generations of owners is always hard. Turns out he was absolutely right. Having said that, we've let our agent as well as theirs know that we're perfectly happy to walk away if it gets too weird. They need to sell the land more than we need to buy it. We're working on a 2 year plan from taking possession to building and moving there.p, they need the money now.

Onward...


Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on November 12, 2017, 02:12:16 PM
Not that it's any consolation, but a similar thing happened to us with some property near Orifino, ID.
Saw the pictures in the listing. Made an appointment to see the land. Drove all the way from western WA to look at it.
Turns out the land was on top of a ridge above the river. 1500' climb on a gravel road. I just about fell off the side of the mountain in my Suburban, and that was in GOOD weather, no ice, snow or rain.
The picture of the "house" was from the best possible angle. It was a 3 room shack. Besides the access issues, it turns out the "well on property" was a shared well. That's a nightmare waiting to happen even on the best day.  There was power run to the house, but a few phone calls and we found out the power had been disconnected at the feeder box for the area because the line had been "condemned", and would need to be replaced. Estimated cost to run a new line 1/4 mile was $1500.
I did a layman's "building inspection" while there. All the circa 1920's wiring in the house was dual feed (you know...the kind with cloth insulation and ceramic insulators in the un-insulated attic crawl space?). The foundation was post-and-pier, which means no VA or FHA inspection would pass it, and no lender would touch it. So the house itself was was worthless as far as the value of the property was concerned. That meant we would need to build, or move in a modular home. Good luck with THAT, considering the switch-back road up the mountain.  At least we had a nice road trip cross-country to remember. Haha.

During our process of searching for land to buy, I learned a lot about "real estate-ese" language.  I discovered that "20 private sun-drenched acres" in Eastern Washington meant the property was on a bald ridge (no trees), and no road or easement access.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on November 13, 2017, 04:39:59 PM
Things might be looking up.

If we can settle the water lines location and the electrical source/location it's looking pretty good.

We've asked the seller to include the cost of locating the water lines in the survey review which they've already agreed to pay for. We've also asked them to show where the electrical lines are that they claim are at the property

They've agreed to extend the various inspection deadlines, a couple of which were supposed to be today.

We'll see what happens in the next couple of days.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: PetrifiedWood on November 14, 2017, 12:00:21 AM
My wife and I got burned by some sellers back when we were house shopping. We paid for an inspection and then the sellers backed out after they learned what needed fixing.

Our tiny rural town of 1500 people or so has decided to adopt the nearby city's ordinances so we will have all of the inconvenience of living away from town with all of the restrictions now. Ticks me off.

I have a couple of small lots in New Mexico in some junk subdivision my wife bought on eBay, another in Colorado, and 20 acres in Nevada that we paid only $4K for and keep getting lowball offers on in the mail a few times a year. They are going to have to at least come up to our price plus a little to cover the taxes we've paid over the years. I'd sell the 20 acres right now for five thousand. But they are in an undeveloped area. Easy access, but just dry scrub land and no trees. 20 acres somewhere nice is going to run ten times as much.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on November 14, 2017, 08:24:21 AM
when I was working in New Mexico back in the 60's there were people selling land out in the desert west of Taos and north towards the Colorado border.  They would advertise in magazines.  I forget the price or the size of the parcels but these were out in the area where there was no power and no water.  Wells were deep.  They would take a bulldozer and just grade "roads" around the perimeter and some of the interior and then survey the lots with flags on stakes. 

I saw one person living on this kind of land.  This was before the big hippie movement into New Mexico in the later part of the 60's but I never went back to see if anything ever was built besides that one shack. 
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on November 14, 2017, 03:50:51 PM
.... I'd sell the 20 acres right now for five thousand. But they are in an undeveloped area. Easy access, but just dry scrub land and no trees. 20 acres somewhere nice is going to run ten times as much.

In beautiful NW Montana, 20 acres of undeveloped timberland will run you that 10x....per acre!

Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 09, 2017, 02:51:20 PM
We've responded to theirs and added a few of our own objections and it seems we're finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

We got the sellers to pay for a water pipe locating service so we can find out if the pipes they told us about  are infringing too much on our property.

All the other issues seem to be either fixed or in the process of being fixed so we should be closing on the property early next month.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: wsdstan on December 09, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
If you're happy we are happy.  Hope it goes the way you want.
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: Old Philosopher on December 09, 2017, 04:30:36 PM
This whole odyssey has been worse that watching an episodic canoe build.  ;D  A veritable emotional blood bath.... O:-)
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 09, 2017, 07:27:30 PM
This whole odyssey has been worse that watching an episodic canoe build.  ;D  A veritable emotional blood bath.... O:-)

I appreciate the chance to vent a bit...

With any luck I'll have some ongoing projects to write about as we enter the next phase.

Onward...
Title: Re: Building a log home...we hope.
Post by: JohnE on December 28, 2017, 08:24:26 AM
Off to the credit union to wire a good deal of money to the title insurance company in a couple hours.

We are scheduled to close in one week.

Couldn't sleep, been up since 4 am...

Good times...