Does the bow kit have to be one that we make ourselves? I ask because I ordered a bow kit online cause I wanted to practice before I saw this thread. So if i get a friction fire with it does that count or is that considered cheating?
nice one creek! glad to have you back :D
I think that would be ok. So long as you aren't using a cordless drill to turn the spindle! :D
:(
Not whining here, but this particular injury has put a damper in doing a lot of things I enjoy doing...& also my way of making a living..
Not gonna let it get to me though. I am going to make it(FF) one of my self assigned physical therapy exercises to try to get my hand usage back...
;)
Do any of you guys get so into your work and realize how dangerous you are actually being?
where is your title??? you are APPROVED :P
Way to go, PW!
Nice work!
:banana:
where is your title??? you are APPROVED :P
Well my title is taken up by "administrator" right now, lol. But I will add a custom title just for kicks. I'd have to make FFF my primary member group in order for it to be the default display group. ;)
Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.
'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:
A) Spun up a coal,
B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and
C) It burst into a flame,
I would think that easily qualifies.
MnSport.. you lost me at the 'coagulate' picture. When your spinning the bow/stick into the hole, is that board on top of the one you put the dust on? Your notch is lined up to the dust pile underneath on the bottom board?
WW.
@MnSportsman: Well, I vote you were successful. Not sure one necessarily needs to have the tinder bundle in hand when getting flame. Ya got fire by friction. Kinda like when airplane pilots say, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing." I guess another way of looking at it is you demonstrated success with an injury.
Perhaps you're thinking one should show his skill as repeatable (to minimize the fluke factor). Kinda like those who try to break the land speed record. They have to make two runs within an hour which are averaged together to get an official speed.
Sounds like you're being a little strict with yourself.
'Tain't my call MNS, but if you:
A) Spun up a coal,
B) Popped it into a tinder bundle, and
C) It burst into a flame,
I would think that easily qualifies.
+1
:thumbsup:
Tomorrow. I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow! Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!
Thanks, Folks. But I have really been doing this for years now. Yes I do not always get coals but I do "most" of the time because of friction wood knowledge and experience and lots of practice.Quote from: kanukkarhuTomorrow. I'm gonna do this thing tomorrow! Dag-nabbit, I'm gonna kick it's sorry little butt tomorrow!
You will get it. Just keep on keeping on. It took me a year before I got my first coal. I would make it a point to work the firebow at least once a week and I still do. It took me another year before I got "consistent" coals.
*Gulp* A year?!?
But it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do. Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord. Not so easy, in my experience! :)
I actually thought of trying that way initially, as it seems the most 'realistic' scenario. In other words, I'd be whipping up a bow and spindle ONLY if every other course of action was unavailable.Quote from: kanukkarhu*Gulp* A year?!?
Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.Quote from: kanukkarhuBut it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do. Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord. Not so easy, in my experience! :)
It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL
If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
Quote from: kanukkarhu*Gulp* A year?!?
Yep. A year. For some folks it is quicker mostly because they have an instructor. I did not other than what I was reading and what others were telling me. So I learned hands on in the woods the hard way but that just means I appreciate the skill more.Quote from: kanukkarhuBut it's funny, now that I've tried it, I kinda listen a bit differently when people talk about this fire starting method so casually... like it's something you just kinda do. Like my third fire starting method is this piece of paracord. Not so easy, in my experience! :)
It is never easy. It might get better but not easy. That is why we all still have failures. Nor is it something to take for granted because failure is always a present possibility. Only the odds of success are much higher with knowledge, experience, and practice. Oh, and odds of failure seem to increase dramatically when there are spectators. LOL
If you want a real challenge (this one was put to me by John McPherson), go out in the woods and make a firebow set and cord, and get fire only from what is there in the woods. Whether or not you use a stone cutting edge or a knife. Then do it in all kinds of weather. I have done it now many times. I would not suggest someone new to friction fire do this until they are more comfortable with the skill at home and have a bit more knowledge of friction woods. When the coals begin to come more consistently, that would be a good time to try it.
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.
;)
Even Spruce is better than pines.
:)
I put a link up for ya.. in the post above...Check that out.Thanks buddy! :D
;)
It may help a bit.
:D
G'Luck!
:)
Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch? I suck with a bow drill!
This challenge has peaked my interest much more than gathering twig bundles, or some other inane exercises. The challenge will be to make a pump drill with natural materials, and no workshop bench tools. 8)Does a fire pump count, if you make it from scratch? I suck with a bow drill!
If you can show yourself making fire with it, I don't see why it shouldn't count. I would think any primitive friction fire method should count, bow drill, pump drill, fire thong, fire saw, fire plough, etc.
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.
now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!
My experience with screeching is usually due to sap/ resin or moisture in the wood. Can also get screeching if the spindle drills too deep into the fireboard. Can widen the divot or shave off the sides of the spindle making it skinnier. Often times if the divot is too deep the spindle will bind and prevent smooth action (ie. spindle flip-outs). A general rule of thumb is the fireboard should be no thicker than the diameter of the spindle. Example, if the spindle is 1/2" diameter then the fireboard should be 1/2" or less thick. This improves chances of success and efficiency as there's less fireboard mass absorbing the heat (more of the heat is directed to the dust pile in the notch). Also, it's quicker and easier to fill the notch with dust and get it to critical temperature.
I occasionally use sand to help the spindle bite into the fireboard when doing the hand drill. Usually with a fresh set. Saves wear & tear on the hands. I rarely need to do this with the bow drill (fire bow).
You may have just given the Key for why so many people get frustrated. This one "secret" is a pearl!
That is very true! I noticed that the pile of dust can't easily ignite until it has accumulated into a high enough pile to fill the notch in the fire board. Having a taller board means you have to drill that much longer to make the dust pile high enough to reach where the heat is.
So here's a silly question. I've heard a 'fail' using waxed paper to catch the coal under the notch. I even saw one guy cheat and use char cloth.
So what is the consensus here of what to use under the hearth board to catch the coal for transfer to the bundle?
I am gonna do this, but when it isn't 100 degrees with 72 degree dewpoints.
I have never once, made a friction fire out of all the fires I have made. I will earn that orange lettering ;)
I even have some cedar on hand.
Does the hearth board need to be the same wood as the spindle?
Never hear much about cottonwood, so that's interesting. I have tons of it around here.
I find that I've had the best results with making the spindle and hearth from the same stick. Also Cottonwood is a little more forgiving than some other woods.
-NWYeti
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".She's using the root for the hearth board? How about the spindle?
Old Philosopher, I don't know much about using American Elm but if it passes the finger nail test maybe you should give it a try. As far as Cottonwood it works pretty well, I have a friend that teaches primitive skills and she always uses Cottonwood root during demonstrations because it "always works".She's using the root for the hearth board? How about the spindle?
K.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.
now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!
Same. Sucks, eh?
Any comments on mullien?
Gonna try some poplar as soon as I can get the time.Quote from: kanukkarhuK.K.... Get rid of the pine. Use some dead Cedar, or Willow. Your gonna have troubles with the pines. Even some dead Cottonwood, would be better. Too much resin in the Pine tree type family.
now I don't feelbad about not beingable to do this up at the cbin. I am practically surrounded by Potlatch pines! I been using the wrong damn wood all this time!
Same. Sucks, eh?
I agree. Start off with some Cedar (if you have it) or Willow that work on themselves. Pine is the wrong wood but "seasoned" Pine is not the wrong wood (see the coal above I got with seasoned Pine and I do this regularly) but it is the wrong wood for a beginner. Use "seasoned" Pine later. If you have Yucca around, that would be the best. Real quick to get a coal with a Yucca spindle on just about any board. Yucca has one of the lowest temperatures for friction of most any friction wood except a Mallow family plant such as Caesar Weed above that has an even lower temperature than Yucca. Much quicker coal with Caesar Weed and it works on itself like all Mallows. Other Mallows are Hibiscus and Velvetleaf. My first coal however was Willow on Willow. My second coal was Maple on Maple but I would not suggest Maple for a beginner because it is a little on the hard side and harder to get a coal.
Some say cottonwood is real good but since I don't have any here, I can't say. If you are not sure of your wood types for friction wood then use the "fingernail etch test."
Gonna try some poplar as soon as I can get the time.
I harvested a few mullein stalks last year while thy were still green, and let them dry in a corner of my shop. I have not checked them out yet to see how they held up. But...I have a 5 1/2 foot walking stick I made out of a 9 foot dead mullien. I think I posted a pic somewhere. Anyway, it's strong enough to bear my weight, if I don't get stupid. It weighs 9 oz.
I also had a stalk I harvested after the spring snow melt last year that was one of the standing dead stalks. It was very dry, very lightweight, and very fragile. It had a large central core of pith that was broken in a lot of places, and an outer layer of lengthwise fibers that came off the core pretty easily. The impression I got is that it was a bit on the fragile side to use as a bowdrill spindle, but you might get away with using it as a hand drill. I also tried shaving paper thin pieces of the pith and could not get them to take a spark from a flint and steel, or ignite in a fire piston. It's possible I had an anomalous stalk, but if the ones I dried out in my shop are any indicator, they are just as light and fragile feeling and I suspect that the mullein in my area is unsuitable.
Quote from: Old PhilosopherAny comments on mullien?
No mullein here either. But give a horseweed spindle a try. ;D Works on willow among other boards.
Went out today and made a cord and set from scratch and learned the hard way once more that it is especially critical with a natural plant fiber cord to get the right materials and parts (no marginal stuff) or the cord won't last through the process due to struggling with the materials and parts. Even with low temperature friction woods. I did not have a straight spindle and the boards were boards I should not have been using. Needless to say it was a failure.
Out of curiosity, what did you make the cord from? I've had success using Saw Palmetto and Queen Palm strands (off the branch). I like them because they're long enough where you don't have to splice them (That, and Saw Palmetto is everywhere and easy to find). I haven't tried Caesar Weed fibers yet. Apparently they have excellent tensile strength. I've not had the best luck using natural cordage were splicing is used (ie. reverse twist cordage).
Like your Ray Mears quote, KK. But I like these better.
"Bushcraft is what you carry in your mind and your muscles."
"The great thing about bushcraft is that wherever you go, the skills go with you."
"Knowledge is the key to survival and the best thing about that is: it doesn't weigh anything."
"You cannot underestimate the importance of preparation."
Give Les a call over in Ontario and you will have the firebow licked in no time. lol Just kidding.
and I've been disgusted by what I see as the ever-increasing trend to make "bushcraft" into like an extreme sport or something.
Quote from: kanukkarhuand I've been disgusted by what I see as the ever-increasing trend to make "bushcraft" into like an extreme sport or something.
Ah, well all those TV shows and personalities are entertainment value anyway, not instruction. If they were instruction nobody would want to watch them. These personalities get their show and then they get their endorsements. Its all about the $.
[...No rant!!! QFT!
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc.
....
:soap: Rant over. Sorry. :(
[...No rant!!! QFT!
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc.
....
:soap: Rant over. Sorry. :(
And to those of the mindset in the highlighted paragraph, I say... "....and the horse you rode in on!" :P
I also see lots of "ordinary" people (although NOT here) pushing so called 'dirt time', 'certification' of this and that... pushing others to 'prove' their skills etc.
And while I'm on the subject of politics - would you believe that we have seen in print that some people seem to think that there should be rules to govern people doing just the sort of stuff that we are writing about? Duh! Talk about big government. Fini
The only man-made thing I used was the main blade on my Swiss Army Knife. Eventually, I'd like to be able to use only natural tools & materials.
It's a bit of a shame the FL climate being so humid means artifacts made of natural materials like wood don't usually survive. It would e neat to see how pre-Columbian Florida people made fire. What materials they used, and how they shaped them into a useable form.You might need SCUBA gear to do that.
To be honest, I wasn't really sure I'd even be successful as it was another hot & humid day and the weather can be a big factor. If anyone noticed, it took me well over a minute of effort going for the coal. Generally, it shouldn't take that long, but I've been trying to figure out how to better deal with the high-humidity factor. Moisture is friction fire's Kryptonite.
Maslin is a senior instructor for the British Bushcraft School,[4] and inventor of a new method of creating fire by friction, The Maslin Leg Drill,[5] that enables a person to create fire by friction using only one arm?theoretically making it possible to do with a broken arm. According to Maslin's Twitter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter) account, he is currently hitchhiking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchhiking) over every landmass from Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) to England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England).[6]
Though oddly enough that video makes me wonder how many cool friction fire possibilities a person would have if they were stranded with a bicycle. Remember the Survivorman episode where he had a Mtn. bike? I'll bet something could be worked up using the cranks, bearings, tires, etc. I have personally gotten a lot of smoke from a bit of dry juniper trying to saw it in two with a bicycle brake cable. The sawing was slow, but it generated a LOT of heat. The wood itself was smoking quite a bit.
Still working on my Fire Pump as time permits.
Thanks! You're going to crack up when you see my solution to the "fly wheel" balancing act.Quote from: Old PhilosopherStill working on my Fire Pump as time permits.
Good luck with that!
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillNN.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillNN.html)
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrill01.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrill01.html)
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillAA.html (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/pumpdrill/pumpdrillAA.html)
you guys should talk to LetsRock, he has done these types of things before ;)LOL! I think LR is just sitting back waiting to laugh at my fly wheel. ;)
PW's got it right. The dust comes from both much like the bow & hand drills.Thanks! Just so no one is disappointed, I'm going to cheat in one regard and use jute/sisal twine. I'm having enough trouble finding the time to put this together in the first place, and I figure the jute twine is the closest thing I can get to "natural cordage" without digging up roots and chewing them into submission, or braiding nettle bark. :P
Well, give it a go your way. I've seen a couple vids where the pump drill is made from all natural materials. I'll eventually give it a try myself, but I don't think I could have pulled it off without experience making and using the man-made pump drills first. Finding a straight enough spindle and good counter-weight materials will add to the challenge. Even better if you can use natural cordage too. Good luck!
Jeff is a great guy. I also learned better ways of cord management on the firebow from him and different techniques. Just have to get used to doing it another way and that will take some time. I had too thick baseboards most of the time and knew better. We have had some rain in this area over a few days before Jeff and I went out so there is a good bet that the wood was on the damp side and add humidity to that so struggles were to be expected. The other alternative was to dig deep down to much drier wood but that would have taken a good while. When trying to make and use friction sets and natural cords on the fly from scratch it can be a struggle but other times it can work first time especially when the weather is dry. Much harder than sets already made waiting to be used. The Seminoles did it the right way, making and collecting their sets, and then taking them to their lodges and proper drying before using. We always talk about preparation. Ideally materials including tinder and kindling should be collected dry before foul weather and kept dry so there are less problems.
Jeff got to eat some palmetto cabbage, asking me about its calories. Well, probably not much but way better than nothing if you have an empty belly. Eat it raw or cooked. Most of the berries here I think have gone out of season. Kind of waiting on the local Muscadine grapes to put out right now. Too bad I didn't take the time to get into some Greenbriar. Fresh young Greenbriar tips are pretty good. A lot can be done for survival with just pine and palmetto. Shelter, tinder, fire, containers, cordage, and food. That is a lot. So getting stuck in the pine barrens is not so bad. It happens to be were most folks end up camping anyway. The drawback "can" be lack of water in pine barren areas. Plant food to me is a way of putting something in my belly until traps and snares pay off. I look forward to another excursion with Jeff. Maybe next time baskets, edibles, practicing traps, primitive fishing, or something along those lines.
IIRC, when they found the "Ice Man" (can't remember the name they gave him), didn't he have a fire kit with him, as well as a tinder supply? I think I saw a picture of it somewhere on the 'net.
...The more I practice friction fire-making with fresh from scratch materials the more I think the Native Indians and other indigenous peoples over the ages had to be smart enough to make sure they didn't have to do that too often (ie. pre-made sets, coal-extenders, continuous fires, etc...). Just as we make sure we always have a lighter or matches when we go into the woods, the Indians must have also ensured they had a reliable means to make fire with them as well. Especially, in inclement weather.
IIRC, when they found the "Ice Man" (can't remember the name they gave him), didn't he have a fire kit with him, as well as a tinder supply? I think I saw a picture of it somewhere on the 'net.
The other was a type of tinder fungus, included with part of what appeared to be a complex firestarting kit. The kit featured pieces of over a dozen different plants, in addition to flint and pyrite for creating sparks.
Fresh, On-The-Spot Laurel Oak with Palmetto bowstring.
Well, I would say no to just carrying it coiled. But as shoe laces it's not "loading" the kit. Frankly, I'm trying to figure fishing in too. Gutted paracord is "can do" for line. I've got to practice self-made onsite hooks. Not an easy task. I also thought about a small net from palm. Kinda like one of those cheapo crab nets that's just a square. You bait, wait, and yank it up.
Well, I would say no to just carrying it coiled. But as shoe laces it's not "loading" the kit. Frankly, I'm trying to figure fishing in too. Gutted paracord is "can do" for line. I've got to practice self-made onsite hooks. Not an easy task. I also thought about a small net from palm. Kinda like one of those cheapo crab nets that's just a square. You bait, wait, and yank it up.Strands from paracord will work for a simple gorge hook. Not sure what's naturally available in your area, but the N.A. in the PNW used nettle bark for salmon fishing lines, and making nets. Strong stuff.
The cordage isn't easy but within our skill sets. It's the hooks. There's alot of very small brim (panfish like bluegill) that are ubiquitous. teeny hooks...That's the beauty of the gorge hook. You can make them so tiny it's a challenge to tie a line to them. Bone slivers, thorns, carved nut shell...anything strong enough to stay wedged in their throats without breaking when you haul 'em in.
The cordage isn't easy but within our skill sets. It's the hooks. There's alot of very small brim (panfish like bluegill) that are ubiquitous. teeny hooks...That's the beauty of the gorge hook. You can make them so tiny it's a challenge to tie a line to them. Bone slivers, thorns, carved nut shell...anything strong enough to stay wedged in their throats without breaking when you haul 'em in.
The real challenge is getting them unhooked without dissecting them.
Well I never tried this before and have more to learn. This stick I started out with is Pignut Hickory. But I do think its not dry enough. I did get a nice pile of dust and smoke but no ember. And todays humidity probably doesnt help either? Tell me if you see some thing wrong please.
Thanks man! I wasn't gonna let it beat me so I figured my arms were gonna look like Popeyes'
Guess what? It's raining, again. 50% chance every day lately and expected to be for the next week or so as well.
I'm gonna get this but I must say I thought it would be easy.
It is likely that I am gonna "tick off" some folks... But that is not my intention.
:D
I would invite anyone to look at the last 20-30 posts in this thread.
The info being passed is great! :)
Part of it deals with a particular part of the country.
;)
Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??
Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
;)
But... No "new" folks showing their stuff...
:(
I appreciate everything I read here, in this topic, & in this forum...
:D
It'd sure be "Right Nice", to see some folks posting up their attempts for FF. Be it a fail or a success...
;)
Friction Fire has been getting done for thousands of years, in a lot of places, with a lot of different methods & means....
It'd be nice to see some other folks show what they are doin & what they use.
;)
Ya'll don't mind me sayin',what I am thinkin', do ya?
:D
Flint and steel produces sparks by pyrophoricity. The flint cuts tiny pieces off the steel that are small enough to ignite by reacting with oxygen in the air.
If that definition is incorrect in saying the ignition is spontaneous, then the rest of the definition can't be trusted to be correct either.
I like to go with Webster dictionary definition. I've been using a Webster dictionary since before the internet.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyrophoric)
1
: igniting spontaneously
2
: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel (http://1<br />: igniting spontaneously<br />2<br />: emitting sparks when scratched or struck especially with steel)
No mention of spontaneous there. Or friction, for that matter.
Only thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??
Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
Quote from: MnSportsmanOnly thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??
Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
That's great. I am all for it. Why don't we start with you? What have you done lately?
Quote from: MnSportsmanOnly thing that I am bummed about is... No new folks posting anything..
??
Some folks have said they will post up something.. But they are busy.
Some folks think( and "say".)... "Been there, Done that.".. Why waste the time...
Some folks, like me, just haven't felt like doing this stuff again, till I feel like it.
That's great. I am all for it. Why don't we start with you? What have you done lately?
Ok, if I could keep the bow string from slipping on the spindle, I would be in good shape. I think I need to make a few revolutions around the spindle and just hold the loose end instead of relying on knots at both ends to not stretch slightly with only one wrap around the spindle.I believe what you're describing is pretty close to an Egyptian bow drill, but the string is still tied to both ends of the bow.
Ok, if I could keep the bow string from slipping on the spindle, I would be in good shape. I think I need to make a few revolutions around the spindle and just hold the loose end instead of relying on knots at both ends to not stretch slightly with only one wrap around the spindle.I believe what you're describing is pretty close to an Egyptian bow drill, but the string is still tied to both ends of the bow.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aF60gIgZDwo/SKcGykwhfgI/AAAAAAAAAJY/Svs_fxvDaXM/s320/egyptian1.jpg)
I recommend using paracord. It's the most ideal as a bow drill bowstring. Using paracord, you shouldn't need to wrap it around the spindle more than once (You can if you want, though). It should have enough bite with one wrap. I recommend tying it to both ends of the bow. Paracord is plenty strong enough. It won't break (at least after many attempts).
The bowstring slippage is probably due to the bow not being sturdy or stout enough. If it's flimsy then you'll get slippage (the bow flexes too much). If you have a lot of friction under the bearing-block (hand-hold), that can also contribute to bowstring slippage (Use barsoap as a lubricant in the bearing-block divot).
Good Luck!
Oh no.On my Photobucket videos, when I hover over a video icon, the drop down menu includes "IMG code". Clicking on that copies the URL into your buffer. Just get back here to your post and "paste" what was copied from PB.
Can anyone tutor me on posting a video from photobucket?
It's going to be hard for me to continue without the aid of video.
I'm using an iPhone.
....Now I understand why all your pix were in individual posts, instead of grouped under one post.
I'm using an iPhone.
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/9726B720-E288-4E93-AB8F-8D4EF9A4D5D0-2922-000005D7E1EA6EA3.mp4)Sorry... I know how PB works, but I don't have a clue how to troubleshoot the iPhone compatibility here.
.... Didn't work?
I whittled on my spindle for hours trying to straighten it and I started to wonder if my wood was too hard. I cut down two Japanese Maples and had no idea if this wood would be suitable.
Okay, that does it. I'm all motivated up now to try this again!!
KK
http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4 (http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/F6C03A69-DB91-41DF-9898-A70847DF7D47-2922-000006888F920A1A.mp4)Just a guess, but lift the ember on and into the tinder bundle?
Anyone have a suggestion as to why I couldn't get a flame? I've had less ember while camping and have achieved fire. Maybe too much dog hair mixed with wood shavings? Lol.
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.
Nicely demonstrated, RBM!
I think you figured things out better on your own than with my help (video-editing challenges), ha ha. I still couldn't get a good file conversion with the things I was trying. Looks like you found the better way.
Nicely done using all natural materials and a shoestring for the bowstring (mentioned in the YouTube description). Especially with a single wrap on the spindle. There's definitely a difference using a shoestring as opposed to paracord for a bowstring. Excellent technique as well. Betcha there was hardly any wear & tear on the shoestring.
It might seem like a long effort, but he's got the right idea for here in humid Florida. Especially lately. I've been practicing and comparing the weather with my efforts and it seems any time the atmospheric pressure is down and the humidity is up it makes it that much more difficult to get an ember. Going longer tends to increase the success rate (steams away humidity/ moisture). Perhaps, the change of seasons might be a factor. The cold front hasn't made its way down to us yet.
In a way, I was glad to see someone else in Florida use Yucca for friction fire-making. It seems everyone (other worldwide YouTubers) rave about how wonderful it is. Yet, the Yucca I've used (found in various parts of Florida) has been more difficult to use than I'm led to believe. It works, but not as quick and effortless as others have suggested (like when someone makes a coal in just a few seconds).
I reread this thread and maybe I missed it but isn't sycamore good wood?
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.
Slow and steady. Long bow strokes. I don't go fast and wear myself out. The coal will come. As long as the spindle keeps moving, heat and friction build up. I go longer a lot of times than may be necessary and that is because I am watching the dust pile and don't stop until I see smoke coming from it separate from the spindle or until the spindle bottoms out. This way I get very few "false" coals as they are called. Thinking there is a coal and there isn't. I don't like to stop too soon as I have done in the past and then I do end up with false coals. But stopping or not depends on energy reserves also. ;D Seems like I am much less tired by going slow anyway. Sometimes the coal comes sooner or later. Sometimes it takes more than one burn hole on the board.
Wow that's about five times as long as I could imagine keeping up the sawing! Great technique. Thanks for sharing the video.
Slow and steady. Long bow strokes. I don't go fast and wear myself out. The coal will come. As long as the spindle keeps moving, heat and friction build up. I go longer a lot of times than may be necessary and that is because I am watching the dust pile and don't stop until I see smoke coming from it separate from the spindle or until the spindle bottoms out. This way I get very few "false" coals as they are called. Thinking there is a coal and there isn't. I don't like to stop too soon as I have done in the past and then I do end up with false coals. But stopping or not depends on energy reserves also. ;D Seems like I am much less tired by going slow anyway. Sometimes the coal comes sooner or later. Sometimes it takes more than one burn hole on the board.
Well it obviously pays off. I think the slower speed has to make the spindle more controllable.
When actions are slower, they are more deliberate and less prone to error simply because motor skills are not rushed. That's a fancy way of saying you can correct things as you go if you move slower.
When actions are slower, they are more deliberate and less prone to error simply because motor skills are not rushed. That's a fancy way of saying you can correct things as you go if you move slower.
That's exactly where I was going with it. More often than not when I have a spindle spring free it's when I'm drilling faster trying to get a coal in a hurry. I have had them spring out when going slower while burning in but that is probably because the divots in the fireboard and bearing block haven't been well formed yet. Like you say, the deliberate slow movements make it easier to correct bad form before it causes the spindle to fling away.
Nicely done. Looks like the cord held up pretty good!
We have some cattails around here in places. I might have to give one a try. How would you say their relative strength or fragility compares to a mullein stalk of the same length?
No Yucca in Utah? Sotol, Spiny Yucca, etc.?
USDA says you got it.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=YUCCA
http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Utah&statefips=49&symbol=YUCCA
No Yucca in Utah? Sotol, Spiny Yucca, etc.?
USDA says you got it.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=YUCCA
http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Utah&statefips=49&symbol=YUCCA
We've got it, just not in my part of the state. I have seen some in the Moab area. I live at about 6500 feet in a pinyon juniper woodland.
We do get some small opuntia cacti though and I have thought of drying a couple of pads out to see how they might work as fire boards.
Wow RBM, Cattail seems kinda delicate for bow drill. You must have been extra careful to make it work. Not sure I coulda pulled it off for bow drill.
I guess I'll have to give Cattail a try as a bow drill. Just seems so fragile in comparison to other weed stalks I use. Nevertheless, between the two of us we're showing that Cattail's a great friction fire option.
Another excellent vid, RBM. I haven't tried Horseweed or Grapevine as friction fire materials yet. I see Grapevine all over so I'll have to give it a try next chance I get.
Anyone ever use anything as off-the-wall as Grape Poppy for a spindle? I just cut some down, and noticed it's straight as an arrow shaft, and harder than either cattail, or mullien.
I have to get to making fire again.Tell me about it, Creek! I can't even read this thread anymore for guilt of not getting it done...
Well, that was an hour and a half of my life I won't get back...
Twice I had the black dust smoking, and twice it went out. And those two times represent a lot of other failed attempts...
Frustrating!
Oh well... Live to fight another day I guess.
KK
No glowing ember. Just a pile of smoking black dust. I don't think I quite went long enough. Eventually, I just got pooped and ticked off and called it an evening.Well, that was an hour and a half of my life I won't get back...
Twice I had the black dust smoking, and twice it went out. And those two times represent a lot of other failed attempts...
Frustrating!
Oh well... Live to fight another day I guess.
KK
KK, did you fan the smoking dust a little to expand the coal to the surrounding dust? The coal might get bigger if you do feed a little air to it. Once the coal is a little bigger it can then be transferred to the tinder. Keep at it. You will get it. :)
BTW, I agree with Les on this that if I was in a situation where I really need fire and I was doing this (not practicing), I would get rid of the coal catch. I would put my board directly on the tinder so the coal is already in the tinder eliminating the need to transfer. The transfer step can be a liability. Knock the coal, drop it, wind blows it away, and so on.
Nicely done, RBM. With all natural materials too. All ya need is a cutting tool, some materials to work with, and you're good to go.
I think everyone's out practicing up so they can also be a part of the Friction Fire Fellowship. It's a nice time of the year to be out bushcraftin'.
Looks good! I like how even the tinder comes from the pine. Nice to know you have enough meterials from just the two speceis. I wonder if cordage could be made from the roots of the pine tree and make it a true single source plant for friction fire?
The trade-off is the likelihood of boring viewers. I chose to do this as I'd get frustrated seeing other vids where folks make it look all too easy, as if they just did it in a first and only attempt. The problem is it's human nature to wanna come off having a confident and capable reputation. So personal ego can interfere with the action being portrayed, which is often misleading, like in the movies.
I wasn't picking on you, RBM or suggesting you were misleading. Actually you were quite genuine. The majority of vids show just the success, which is what most people wanna see. Trying to do it in a timely manner without losing the interest of the viewer is always a challenge. Being a film-maker (and video-editing) is also a challenge in itself. I'm guilty of making quick success vids myself. It's not necessarily wrong to do and some folks will forget to mention that it took 10 tries before success (myself included). Either on purpose or because they got so caught up in the excitement of finally being successful. It's a balancing act of trade-offs.
The enemy!
Thanks RBM for the motivation!!
Honestly I usually do better with the hand drill, or at least I like it more. Had a surgery in my ankle so the bow drill position is not my favorite. Need to start practicing FF more often for sure..
I googled "mullien" so I could give it a try. There were so many pics for it I was wondering if it(mullien) was a general name. Like "pine".
Did I read that having the triple F rocker on the patch and shirt was a bad idea due to the idea of "elitism"? I think having it is a unique idea and is promoting the idea of harnessing the primitive that has brought us together. I haven't visited many other sites but they seem as though the common interest brings HUMBLE people together. Now isn't friction fire making a humbling experience?
Seeing that someone belongs to the Fellowship tells me quite a bit. That the person has achieved it utilizing different woods and fungi.......is Yoda-esque.
I don't have a video. Will pictures do?
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.
Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.
nothing like failing to fail right. is that even possible?
Dano, I tried is as a hand drill, not wih a bow. Same results, not even brown dust.
The other reason I'd like to grow it is because I've read the leaves can be dried and then crushed into a powder to make a tea with. The tea is supposed to be really good for use as an anti inflammatory. I've also read you can smoke the dried leaves and it's supposed to be really good for bronchitis. The main things I'm going for are as a drill set and the tea.
Thanks again!
[size=78%]I haven't tried the tea, but I did try to loosen some severe chest congestion by smoking some of the leaves ONE time..........thoug[/size][size=78%]ht I was going to end up the emergency room [/size] :crazy: :puke:
I have a question for you all- I got 3 Mullein stalks over the weekend and am having no luck at all. I've been able to get embers with red cedar hearth and white maple drill before and have used that mostly. Not so good with the Mullein though.
I'm also trying this as a hand drill set, just FYI. Anyway, what I got was near a reservoir if that matters, but it feels dry. I put it next to a wood stove for two days to be sure. I'd post some pictures, but left my camera in the truck and it's only 9 degrees out...
I cut the stalk a couple inches above the snow line, scrapped off the leafs and fuzz and removed most of the dark (brown) outer layer. It has a really pithy inside, but it seems to harden as I drill. The problems I'm having are that it won't burn in at all. It will drill, but no smoke, no ash, not even a dark color where I drill. I get heat, but not enough. I'm thinking of trying it as an Eqyptian drill set because it would break as a bow drill set.
So it's new to me, it's winter here, the stalks are dark brown on the outside, very light and pithy on the inner part, very easy to break, cuts very easily...and that's about all I can think of to tell you.
I'm wondering if it matters what season you harvest the stalk, if I need to harvest it closer to the ground, is there more than one type of Mullein (maybe I have the wrong type) as I've seen it more green on the stalk during the summer months out here...
I did get a fairly good amount of what I'm guessing are the seed pods (about the size of a sweet pea) that I'll plant here if it's the right kind. It's kinda hard to find close by my home area. The seeds are all the way at the top colored part, above the leaves.
Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks!
Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Thanks for putting this up shane, I'd forgotten about trying that kind of hearth. I'm going to try it with my mullein stalk. I think the thumb loops will help too because I broke the spindle even trying the Egyptian method. My stalks aren't strong enough to take that much side force.
I couldn't see in the video, but did you make a small notch on the hearth pieces to keep the spindle in place?
Great thread. Nice noting the weather (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/index.php/topic,5207.0.html) LETSROCK!
Here's mine...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_abUIkk9ck
Ha! That was funny! At least she didn't say anything about your spindle being so small.
What an ANIMAL! :thumbsup: :hail:
Too funny! Nice work Plainsman :)
Creek
LOL "Nut'n baby." My bet is she did not buy that.
LOL! "ahhh........ nuthin baby"
That sir. Is OutStanding!! & Very nicely done :thumbsup:
u.w.
here is mine
the materials are experimental, i used for this bowdrill super seasoned green ash splitwood and cottonwood bark for a bearing block it was quite challenging not included are about 20 previous fails but i got it right as the block burned through and was scorching my hand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCSIrN__0A
... Is that a cedar hearth-board?
.... I decided that instead of drilling into the handle material I would put a 1/2" wide center pin and then drill it out and use that my Divit.
what ever a person choses it just gives you more options for the bow drill set up.
Bryan
I have incorporated skate board bearings in a sheath. Works great.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3016.jpg.html)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/crashdive123/media/Knife%20Making/BearingBlockSheath3017.jpg.html)
I like Cody and am sure he has skill but come on he is selling a bow drill kit for $85
Scroll down to the bottom. http://www.codylundin.com/abo_store.html (http://www.codylundin.com/abo_store.html)
It still just a stick & string.
if any one here wants a "kit" I will send you one for $70 ;D
Well done! Wonder how the sotol hearth would work with a mullein stalk spindle...
Here is my video, sorry it took so long but i deleted a lot of my videos and this is the only one I could find. It did give me trouble but I hung in there and made it work. Thank god it wasn't a survival situation 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmlhKvkNSY
Nice job OT, and you did it while standing! :thumbsup:Thanks, it can be much easier to stand while bowing lol. When you get a little age on your bones you find others ways to make tasks more comfortable.
Definitely an ACE in the hole!
Thanks for having me, it's a great feeling being able to make fire and being part of the family.Here is my video, sorry it took so long but i deleted a lot of my videos and this is the only one I could find. It did give me trouble but I hung in there and made it work. Thank god it wasn't a survival situation 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewmlhKvkNSY
Nice! Thanks for joining us
Creek
This is not a petition for membership yet just me bragging.
I just spun up my coal in 8:00 Mins! :fire2:
would've had it sooner had I prepped my bow better. :doh:
It'll be down under 5 for my video submission.
Cheers!
Well done, and congrats!Thanks Guys
Nice to find an ember when you thought you'd have to keep drilling. I've got a video somewhere where the spindle pops out and the wind blows the ember right back into the hearth board and I was able to save it. :D
hey woodsman:
Sktagan (spelled phonetically) is a birch conk. I think folks call it "Chaga" but I've only known it by its Pottawatomie name. works fantastic at catching a spark. it's all I use with my flint and steel. The old stuff is hard, brittle, and sparks just bounce right off it with no affect. however, as you can see, it's hard enough to hold up under the pressure of a fire spindle, and will ignite nicely with very little effort. I didn't show it on the video but I doused that piece in the snow and threw it back in my pouch for next time.
I wonder if the ring in the handle of an ESEE Izula could be used as a bearing block?I wonder also. I don't think it will but will give it a go if I unwrap my handle.
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.
Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.
Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.I couldn't agree more! when I do demonstrations I only guarantee the smoke. . . I'm really good at making that part :rolleyes:
Great job everyone, do you all remember that first coal and the feeling you had from making friction fire for the very first time? After that we all thought we were Gods of the flame, until you try the made in the field unproven bowdrill kit. That's when we learn that your only as good as your last successful friction fire. I never carry a bowdrill kit but if one is needed I make it from scratch, in dry environments this is much easier. Making a bowdrill kit from scratch in Ohio is not always a sure thing. But I still love that feeling of getting a coal each and everytime.
Oh so true, friction fire is a great skill to have, but it only works SOME of the time even with the experts. I wouldn't rely on it for my only source of fire. It's definitely the most fun of all fire starting methods in my opinion. I like doing it, even when I fail. Satisfies the primal urges for sure.
Way to go BD! :thumbsup:
I'm going to be working on the Fire Plow next, I haven't seen that yet...
not always. I first heard the "squeak" while playing with a pump drill that was being sold at the gift shop where I worked. it was a real cheesy kit, but I wanted to try it out. all I managed to do was burnish the socket, with no appreciable heat build up. after tweaking it a bit and roughing up the parts was when I heard the "squeak" I call the whistle. the increased friction between the two woods managed to build up some heat, but I never did get an ember. however, you couldn't get dryer wood.
. . . If it squeaks it's wet. . .
I just cut up a deer antler for a bearing block, cut a dimple for the spindle to set in, before I use it should I put any thing in the spindle hole to make it last longer. Thanks.
Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2
Welcome to the FFF! :thumbsup:
I apologize for the delay in getting you added. There isn't a notification system for the member group requests.
Still accepting applicants? I've done it twice, but never captured on film. I'd love to try it again though, and get it on film to join.
Well I tried again today & no luck, but I broke the fireboard. Piece chipped off & I didn't notice, and then the whole corner came off. Maybe that's why it didn't work for me. Anyway, gotta notch out another & try again.keep it up man. I still fail from time to time. I will be doing a hand drill this weekend. If everything goes perfect. lol
This video is super long but I do two hand drill fires at the end if you wanna fast forward past my jabbering. LOL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlxXZaMWW70reallyWelldone! Reallybigmonkey!....respectfully... woods
Glad I found this place!OK Crunksknunk...we ever go camping together your in charge of the fire...thats about as quik an ember as can be got!...woods
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqa7guojKww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFnbA5a0QA
Excellent video, rbm. Thank you! :thumbsup:Thanks! Im glad you liked it brother.
Glad I found this place!Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqa7guojKww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yFnbA5a0QA
Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!
Thanks! Thats even cooler knowing your from Georgia too!Dude, I remember seeing you on youtube, your fire skills are awesome!
Thanks, Realbigmonkey, much appreciated! I've always enjoyed your videos, not to mention your contagious laughter and sense of humor. It's always good to see a fellow Georgian spinning coals.
Miles,
A) nice job
B) now I want to go play with my trail hawk
3) Welcome.
Congrats MFN30!
:D
:thumbsup:
Well done MFN30! I got you added to the group.
I am hoping my initiation will be in two weeks. I don't think I'll be documenting it, but myself and a couple of other guys are going to jointly give it a shot.
Thanks for posting Carson, really dig how the quality in those photos.
the cold steel trail hawk, tomahawk . About $20. Good as is & fun to mod.Miles,
A) nice job
B) now I want to go play with my trail hawk
3) Welcome.
Tell me more about this trail hawk? I like sharp things :)
So when I hit the button to join the "Friction Fire Fellowship" there isn't a prompt or anyplace to say what post #. Like in my case it was post #508 i think.
So when I hit the button to join the "Friction Fire Fellowship" there isn't a prompt or anyplace to say what post #. Like in my case it was post #508 i think.
I checked your profile and it looks like you are part of the FFF member group already when I am logged in as an Admin, but it doesn't show up when logged in as a regular member. I made the FFF your primary member group and moved your supporting member group to the additional groups category. Let me know if everything still works as it should with your account and if not, we will try a different approach.
FFF member list (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=16)