Blades and Bushlore

Bushlore Topics => Bushlore and Outdoor Skills => Topic started by: Old Philosopher on May 10, 2014, 03:33:44 PM

Title: Another sharpening method
Post by: Old Philosopher on May 10, 2014, 03:33:44 PM
It's been awhile since I did any video, so I thought I'd offer this just so I don't feel like I'm slacking.

This is a one-take video, so it's a bit rough. I tripped over my own tongue, and then called the Hard (Fine) Translucent Arkansas stone a "Wash-ita" stone, which it's not. Oh, well...
(BTW, the handy dandy robot censor wouldn't let me spell Wa(http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif)a Stone correctly. :P )

Hopefully this is of some interest to someone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUWY6tqh-14&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for viewing.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: zammer on May 10, 2014, 06:30:00 PM
Good stuff OP, always interesting to see different applications  :chopwood:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Old Philosopher on May 10, 2014, 06:50:10 PM
Good stuff OP, always interesting to see different applications  :chopwood:

Thanks. I like the results, and the gear can be carried in a pocket a lot more easily than a bench stone.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: diogenes on May 10, 2014, 07:15:36 PM
Some chefs I know do it that way. I think for the same reasons you described.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Old Philosopher on May 10, 2014, 07:26:34 PM
Some chefs I know do it that way. I think for the same reasons you described.
I had to edit out the first part of the video, but in that I explained that I'd learned the technique from my BIL, who was a fishmonger for over 15 years.  Filleting halibut and salmon, he was sharpening his knives several times a day. He claimed it was not only more accurate in keeping the grind angle, but you can put more pressure against the steel, and restore the edge quicker. I think he said he learned from an old butcher.
My main reason for making the video is that I've never come across it demonstrated before.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on May 10, 2014, 07:29:21 PM
Ol' Chef Palmer :hail:, my boss at the convention center, suggested that method to the new carvers on buffet lines.  He said it wasn't nearly as dramatic to the people waiting in line, but the difference was that your knife would be sharper when you finished! 8) :lol:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Sarge on May 10, 2014, 08:04:13 PM
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: PetrifiedWood on May 10, 2014, 08:19:58 PM
Many ways to skin a cat (or shave an arm). :D

Good video, thanks for posting it!
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Old Philosopher on May 10, 2014, 09:06:12 PM
Thanks for the positive comments, gang.
I promise whatever I come up with next will be a bit more "polished", production-wise.  ;D
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: crashdive123 on May 11, 2014, 07:31:29 AM
Thanks for the vid.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: The Tinkerer on May 16, 2014, 09:35:53 PM
That was a good video! Thanks! I've never seen that method before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Unzinators on February 14, 2015, 05:58:40 AM
Thanks for posting, Is there a certain angle that works best for you? I've heard everything from a 30 degree angle to a 13 degree.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 14, 2015, 07:22:19 AM
All knives are different......it's best to 'sneak up' on the correct angle.  By that, I mean start at as shallow an angle as you can get by with and still reach the edge.  Try a few strokes and then examine the edge with a hand lens.....if you are just polishing the surface above the cutting edge, you aren't really getting anything done, since you are not removing metal from from the very edge.  In that case, you need to increase the angle a little.....not much!  Examine the edge again.....if you're in the 'sweet spot', continue to stroke at that angle.  If not, try a few more degrees of angle until what you are doing IS effective and you are actually sharpening the EDGE & not just polishing the sides.

I wouldn't consider these things to be the 'end all' of sharpening a knife because some of them are pretty coarse and severe, but they get less severe as they are 'worn in.'  If you are in the middle of a job and your knife goes dull, they will hone the edge to get you by until you get back home and sharpen your knife with whatever method you normally use.   So they are very light & handy to have clipped in your bib pocket if you need a quick edge, but each time you use it, you will be increasing the edge angle to a certain extent......not a good thing. >:(
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Unzinators on February 14, 2015, 08:02:44 AM
I'm finding out this is quite an art! Thanks for the advise, I never thought of looking closely at the edge to find the angle until I got on this site. I'm glad you said it takes years for people to become masters at sharpening. I know i have a long way to go. Thanks again, I'm going back to the stone for more pratice
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 14, 2015, 08:15:25 AM
I'm finding out this is quite an art! Thanks for the advise, I never thought of looking closely at the edge to find the angle until I got on this site. I'm glad you said it takes years for people to become masters at sharpening. I know i have a long way to go. Thanks again, I'm going back to the stone for more pratice
It's not rocket science or even that difficult, it just takes practice and attention to detail.  Without that, success is difficult, if not impossible to achieve.  Don't be 'askeert,' just break out the stones or sandpaper and keep at it....you'll get there a lot faster.  Start on your kitchen knives.....you're wife will thank you & you will get in the practice at the same time. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 14, 2015, 09:06:41 AM
There is a good tip for diamond rods like this if you want to avoid the break in period. Find a glass ashtray and file the edge of the ashtray with the sharpening stick until the worst of the "chunks" are smoothed down. It will then produces a more polished edge on the knife steel. You o ly need to do this once when the diamonds are new. And it will happen naturally through use even if you don't use the ashtray trick. But understand that you won't get your knife quite as sharp until the break in period is over.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Unzinators on February 14, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
Thanks again! Im going to go to the kitchen knives. About dulled all my hunting knives! LOL
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wsdstan on February 14, 2015, 10:41:42 AM
I have the same wa(http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif)a stone that OP uses in the video.  I glued mine to a piece of wood and made it long enough to hold with one hand well out of the way.  It is easy to take a slice of your thumb or fingers by holding it in your hand. 

The method OP shows works very well and we sharpen most of our large kitchen knives with a full sized steel and the Wa(http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif)a stone or fine sandpaper glued to a glass plate.

Looks like the censor won't let you say Wah-sheetah.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 14, 2015, 10:43:57 AM
That censorship board is a finicky bunch. :-\
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Unzinators on February 14, 2015, 10:58:46 AM
http://s375.photobucket.com/user/unzinators/media/CAM00074.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s375.photobucket.com/user/unzinators/media/CAM00073.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Been in the shop, I cut a 15 degree guide so i had a bit of a idea where to start, after about 30 minutes of practice The second link is my finished product! Notice the hairs of my arm are lying on the blade! WOW! Thanks guys
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Old Philosopher on February 14, 2015, 11:33:31 PM
Thanks for the new comments, guys!
One of the reasons "they" sell those angle guides for bench stones is that some folks just can't seem to get the hang (or 'feel') for maintaining the same angle while attacking the stone--or steel.  THAT is what takes hours (not necessarily years) of practice.

When I'm using a bench stone where I can have both hands free, I put one hand on the knife handle and my other thumb against the back of the blade. By keeping that thumb in contact with the stone, and the blade against the same spot on my thumb, I am pretty consistent with my angle.

Unzinators, the angle you use is dependent upon the type of edge you're working toward.  When you do a little research on flat grinds, scandi grinds, and convex edges, you'll see what I mean.  Some people call it a double convex, when you have a shallow angle for the bulk of the blade toward the edge, and then a more acute angle the last silly millimeter to hone your actual cutting edge.  It's the most common grind found on production hunting knives, I believe, because it gives you a sharp edge without it being so thin as to chip easily.

A comment on the coarseness of the diamond lap of which PW spoke.
I'm on my second EZ-Lap.  When I went to replace the 1st one, I found a half dozen 'knock offs' to the design.  They looked identical, under different brands.  A couple of them were so rough I wouldn't have used them on anything but a scythe, or a brush hook!
If you look at the professional culinary grade diamond 'steels', you'll find them in 3 grades: fine, medium and coarse.  If you can't find a pocket model like the fine EZ-Lap, an alternative to PW's method is to use 80-120 grit garnet paper and spend about a half hour sanding the roughness off the diamond lap.
I have a diamond bench stone, and my EZ-Lap (the one in the vid) is every bit as fine as that one.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Unzinators on February 15, 2015, 06:47:44 AM
Looking, on the net I found a EZ-Lap M. 600 grit from Mudd Creek. Looks like the one in your video but thats the only grade I see. Think I'll pick that up and see how it goes
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 15, 2015, 09:06:00 AM
That censorship board is a finicky bunch. :-\

Yeah, don't brag bout that new litter of (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif)-tsu puppies! It will get you every time! :D
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 15, 2015, 09:42:33 AM
That censorship board is a finicky bunch. :-\

Yeah, don't brag bout that new litter of (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif)-tsu puppies! It will get you every time! :D

......and don't call that female (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif) -tsu a (http://bladesandbushcraft.com/Smileys/krystl-white/censored.gif), either......it's offensive to them! :doh: :lol:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: Orbean on February 16, 2015, 09:01:40 AM
My first job was at a meat market, one of the proudest moments of my working life is when i got my metal scabbard, dog chain, and my steel. I still use one in the kitchen. 
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: hiwa on February 16, 2015, 09:22:52 AM
OP, that brass Eze-Lap is my favorite sharpener I use daily and in the bush. I bought a bunch of them in case I was going to wear them out. My first one about 7 years ago is still working fine.

They do need a small break-in period, but you can do that on your kitchen knives. I found out this diamond rod is unique in that it has blend of two types of diamonds on it. Monocrystaline and polycrystalline.  The poly ones fracture off as you use it over time, leaving the harder mono ones as sort of a substrate. I think this is why they last so long.

I've seen guys who owned this for over 20 years that still work well. That's a good technique putting the rod vertical. Another one you can do is hold the rod at your desired angle and keep your knife vertical. Me, I just hold the knife in my hand and move the sharpener towards the knife edge. I've been doing it a long time and have become very good at it. I've used the Eze-lap to hone every cutting tool I have from axes to scissors. Best buy , Imo.

Unzinator ; it only comes in 600 G . and as long as it's a Eze-Lap model M , it's the real McCoy. It gets smoother after you use it a bit and puts a great user edge on your knife. I do like to take a ceramic stone to get rid of the burr , but you could just strop on something.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 11:33:32 AM
My EZ lap wasn't 'bullet-proof'.....the compression ferrule under the tightening collar eventually wore out from getting loose in my pocket.    That lead to the diamond-grit rod eventually filing the hole in it larger, so it was impossible to tighten it enough to hold the rod in position.  :'(
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: hiwa on February 16, 2015, 01:27:44 PM
There's O-rings in either side of the collar that's attached to the shaft ; one on either side to keep the unit seated in both the open and stored positions. I purchased a box of  100 bulk O-rings different sizes for five bucks and found ones that fit. You can push it in with a small nail or wire. It keeps it from un-screwing. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 04:17:11 PM
Mine must have be a pre-O-ring model.....there's no recess whatsoever, that I could get an O-ring into.  They probably modified the later ones when the problem arose. :shrug:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: lgm on February 16, 2015, 04:47:31 PM
Thank you for taking the time to make the video.
aways interesting to see how others do things.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: PetrifiedWood on February 16, 2015, 06:16:25 PM
Mine must have be a pre-O-ring model.....there's no recess whatsoever, that I could get an O-ring into.  They probably modified the later ones when the problem arose. :shrug:

I'll bet if you shoved a tiny O ring inside the end of the collet it would grip the rod when you tightened it.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 06:27:30 PM
There just simply is not enough room for an O-ring anywhere.  The problem lies in the collet that would tighten against the diamond rod.....the hole has worn too large and the collet is squeezed down as far it will go.  All of the windage in the spaces between the fingers of the collet are tight together, but the hole is still too large.  Maybe if I take a jeweler's saw and widen those slots it would allow the fingers to come closer together and grip the rod again. :shrug:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: MnSportsman on February 16, 2015, 06:40:17 PM
J B Weld? C'mon Wolfy... You can do it... Farmers been doin it for years...

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome...
;)
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 06:59:50 PM
That would hold it in the extended position alright, but it kind of defeats the purpose of the design, I think. :P
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: MnSportsman on February 16, 2015, 07:09:05 PM
Well, there has to be a way to "beef up" the collet connection. I was thinking some J B Weld & then a lil file, or grind work. I dunno,, I am not there to look at it close... And you aren't sharing any pictures of it...
 :shrug:


Bet you still have it though, right? Didn't throw it away, did ya? ( I'd bet likely not.. ;) ).. Now, fixing that thing is something to do, when you are in between the laps in the garage, or around the yard, (since I hope you have moved on to "new scenery") by now....
 ;)


  Hey, my friend....it's your tool... Do what ya need to... to make it work. LOL
 ;D

:cheers:
LOL
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 07:23:56 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure where I 'hid' it at the moment. :P.   If it's in our kitchen 'junk' drawer, I may never see it again! :-[      I think widening the kerfs in the collet is the answer.   I still have threads above the tightening coller to screw it down farther, which would allow the fingers of the collet to close tighter against the rod. :thumbsup:


Edit: As Heather would attest to.......I NEVER throw anything way! :lol:
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: hiwa on February 16, 2015, 09:15:42 PM
I know what your talking about now , Wolfy. The threaded end has a cross-hatch cut into it and the threaded coller screws onto it.   http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HbJSG-2ML._SY300_.jpg 
  This is like the Gerber ones I have , not the Eze-lap , which has heavy-duty threads.
http://s.ecrater.com/stores/299099/5490168cd9385_299099b.jpg

I had one of those split-coller types that the thread got messed up , so I took the rod out , drilled a hole in the end and put a key ring on it and tossed the outer cover.
Title: Re: Another sharpening method
Post by: wolfy on February 16, 2015, 09:38:04 PM
Yup, mine's brass just like the second example, but the mechanics must be very similar to the first one.   I really couldn't remember who made it, but it is brass & LOOKED like the one Old Philosopher showed in his video, so I assumed it was an EZ Lap........wrong AGAIN! :P :(

Thanks, hiwa! :thumbsup: :cheers: