Author Topic: Ideal Tripping Canoe  (Read 18347 times)

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Offline madmax

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Ideal Tripping Canoe
« on: February 19, 2015, 09:29:31 AM »
As my wife's retirement approaches and gaining some good friends interested in this sort of stuff,  I'm compelled to look for the ideal tripping tandem canoe.  I've canoe tripped since the early seventies.  Have a great whitewater tripper in the royalex Dagger.  But we are looking and talking about some long (week, weeks) flatwater tripping, both at home and with friends.  I'm diggin' this.  Big bucks but big performance.  Just dreaming...

http://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=50

What is your dream flatwater tripper?

At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 09:55:51 AM »
That'd be my choice, as well. :thumbsup:    Definitely lighter than my old, but ever faithful, 18.5' Mad River TW-Special!   I doubt if I could even portage it by myself, anymore. ???
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Offline greyhound352

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 10:37:24 AM »
That is a sweet looking canoe Tony. I have really given any thought of replacing my Pack kayak I really love that boat.

As far as a double I might look at this model from Old Towne.
http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/penobscot/penobscot_174/
Not as light as the one you posted but lighter in the pocket.
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 10:41:18 AM »
I'm familiar with that canoe Ron.  Very good dimensions.  Very good price for the capacity.  Paddles well loaded.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 11:41:15 AM »
My first really good canoe was a Wenonah and was the Wenonah model.  It was a 17 footer with just a bit of rocker in it, about 1.5".  It tracked well and turned okay. 

My they have gotten expensive since I had that other one. 
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 11:47:11 AM »
My first really good canoe was a Wenonah and was the Wenonah model. It was a 17 footer with just a bit of rocker in it, about 1.5".  It tracked well and turned okay. 

My they have gotten expensive since I had that other one.

Yeah,  great canoe, too.  Good all arounder.  And they have gotten very pricey.  Trying to squeeze in the purchase of a dedicated flatwater tripper before we both are in retirement...
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 12:21:56 PM »
The first boat I bought was a Lowe-Line $200 copy of Grumman's 17 footer, but a '67 VW bus rolled over it and flattened it.  I replaced it with one of Grumman's shoe-keeled 17s w/extra ribs.  They called it the 'whitewater' model....it wasn't! 8)   Cost $300.   The next in line was a Royalex (indestructible space age material at that time) Mad River 16.5' Explorer.  Wooden furniture & caned seats....cost $600.  The hull split in storage from shrinkage in cold weather storage.  It turned out to be a bad batch of Royalex and Mad River allowed me full purchase price in trade for another model in fiberglass.  I chose their TW Special....a modified, deep, racing hull for long distance 'expedition' cruising. Cost $900.  That was back in the '80s and prices have only escalated from there with carbon fibre, Kevlar, vacuum bagging of hulls, etc.  Today's boats are marvels of technology, durability, and lightness......but it'll cost ya'!  :lol:
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 12:26:01 PM »
My first canoe was bought used.  1972.  Grumman 17'er.  It's in my backyard and still in use.  Used it on the last Pot & Machete.  I couldn't reasonably list the paddle craft I've gone through.  I lose track of what I have.  LOL.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 12:34:24 PM »
I forgot to mention the Wenonah 16' solo 'Advantage' that I picked up used for $200...easily repaired cut in the hull made the difference.  Weighs less than 30#, but pretty wiggly for my purposes.
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Offline OutdoorEnvy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 12:38:49 PM »
That looks good Tony.  I don't have near the experience and don't have anything to say you don't know.  But canoes rock and I like seeing and talking about them so I'm looking forward to what you get. 

On a side note hearing about everyones canoes makes me think we need a show your paddle boats pic thread!
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 12:42:44 PM »
Wow nice boat and deal!  Wolfy.

 Best deal I ever got was when we went surfing in hurricane surf and found 2 halves of a cheapo chop gun solo washed up on the beach.  I took them home patched them together.  Painted them pink and Kelly adopted her.  We called her Pinky.  Years later we sold her at a garage sale for 100 bucks.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 12:43:35 PM »
I'll see if I can dig it out. OE.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 12:57:59 PM »
Tony, if you come through this way and want a good deal on that canoe, I'd be willing to let it go.  I haven't used it much at all. :)
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 01:03:50 PM »
Tony, if you come through this way and want a good deal on that canoe, I'd be willing to let it go.  I haven't used it much at all. :)

Less than 30#'s.  Must be the Kelvar model. Dang Wolfy!  We might have to talk.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2015, 01:35:16 PM »

  Not for nothing Max, but  what's wrong with using your 17ft. Grumman,  outside of the 50lbs of weight,  it should handle well on the water, carry a good load, and have plenty of room for you, the wife, and the dog.
  Looking at it logically,  the difference between a really light boat at 30# and the Grumman it's only 20 pounds.
  It may be worth giving it a try locally to see how it works out for you,  it would give to more time to wait for a deal on a new boat.
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 01:43:36 PM »
Thanks Moe.  Yes, the old Grumman can do and have done and her sisters have done epic trips.  I'm dreaming a little to have the ultimate long distance tripper in the quiver going into fixed income living.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2015, 01:47:29 PM »
   Around here, folks take a car or truck inner tube & stretch it around a plastic insulated chest cooler, inflate the tube, then tie it to the stern of the canoe to carry food & beverages
in the cooler, rather than the canoe to save room. You could use the same thing to carry gear if ya want..


   Just thought to mention that, if having room in the canoes ya already have is an issue.


   I only have 2 canoes now. One is a alum one we use for hunting & fishing only, and the other is one I just bought last Summer for $100, just to mess around in. Small, but heavy, I think. But, for tooling around the local rivers with me & the Duke, it should work just fine. We don't need to portage that often around here
I used to have a Dagger for whitewater, but I sold it a few years ago, since I just didn't use it much anymore.
 :)


   Anyway... cant help much on offering suggestions on types of canoes, but I am following this topic,just for the info that might get passed
 :)


  G'luck!
 :D
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2015, 03:26:11 PM »

  Not for nothing Max, but  what's wrong with using your 17ft. Grumman,  outside of the 50lbs of weight,  it should handle well on the water, carry a good load, and have plenty of room for you, the wife, and the dog.
  Looking at it logically,  the difference between a really light boat at 30# and the Grumman it's only 20 pounds.
  It may be worth giving it a try locally to see how it works out for you,  it would give to more time to wait for a deal on a new boat.
You'd better check the weights on those old Grummans a little closer, Moe. ;D.   The only 50 pounder they ever sold was the 13' solo model.  The 15.5s were 69# and the 17s were 75# & 80#, depending on number of ribs & keel configuration.   That means the 16' Wenonah solo weighs less than half of what the 15.5' Grumman comes in at.......a significant difference! :)
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2015, 03:50:13 PM »
Thanks Moe.  Yes, the old Grumman can do and have done and her sisters have done epic trips.  I'm dreaming a little to have the ultimate long distance tripper in the quiver going into fixed income living.

  I hear you there my friend,  I'm in the other boat (pun intended),  I have a '70's era Grumman 17 ft. canoe also,  now I'm doing mostly solos and fishing,  what I'm needing is a smaller and lighter canoe,  but the prices they're asking these days are pretty well out of my reach,  I thought about a Yak but have to be realistic,  I don't bend like I used  ;),  getting into and out of a canoe is bad enough,  a Yak would pose a whole new bunch of problems.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2015, 04:00:24 PM »

  Not for nothing Max, but  what's wrong with using your 17ft. Grumman,  outside of the 50lbs of weight,  it should handle well on the water, carry a good load, and have plenty of room for you, the wife, and the dog.
  Looking at it logically,  the difference between a really light boat at 30# and the Grumman it's only 20 pounds.
  It may be worth giving it a try locally to see how it works out for you,  it would give to more time to wait for a deal on a new boat.
You'd better check the weights on those old Grummans a little closer, Moe. ;D.   The only 50 pounder they ever sold was the 13' solo model.  The 15.5s were 69# and the 17s were 75# & 80#, depending on number of ribs & keel configuration.   That means the 16' Wenonah solo weighs less than half of what the 15.5' Grumman comes in at.......a significant difference! :)

  Yah, I was just trying to be encouraging,  mine is the standard 17 footer with the .50 th. hull,  it weighs a bit over 50 pounds,  but I've never actually weighed it, I know one thing, I'm not kneeing it and swinging it over my head anymore,  when I have to move it it gets draged.   ;)

  If I had the money for shipping I'd make you an offer on yours, I keep watching Craigs list hoping to find an OT Pack canoe, or 14 ft. Great Canadian for cheap money.
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 04:05:37 PM »
Moe. Look into the sit on tops.  Lotsa cheap ones out there on the market.  A pair of dry pants and yer good to go.  Unless you're interested in the "extended" season paddling.

...and I got first dibs on wolfy's boat.  :)
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 04:34:09 PM »
You guys have probably seen the ones I have already. I have a 17 ft alum knock off of a 70's Grumman. Weighs in at a healthy 80#. Floats and handles like a dream. Has carried 4 people (2 on small coolers) down the river numerous times. A drawback of the alum is the heat transfer I've found. I have a 15 ft ramx 2 seater. Karen and I use this one all the time. I think it is stable and easy to clean. It weighs about 80# too. Tough as nails. I have my system to lauch and retrieve it solo, so that is a plus. My Mohawk 13, weighing in at 30# is my baby. Not fast. Wind is not it's friend. Fun on the water though. I like your choice in the OP Tony. Beautiful boat. I'd like to have one and I bet I'd love it. Get it soon so I can ride in it this summer.

 :canoe:

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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 04:38:07 PM »
LOL.  I don't play the lottery.  That canoe would be an epic windfall purchase.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 05:33:05 PM »
Moe. Look into the sit on tops.  Lotsa cheap ones out there on the market.  A pair of dry pants and yer good to go.  Unless you're interested in the "extended" season paddling.

...and I got first dibs on wolfy's boat.  :)

  LOL, not a problem Tony,  I'm not going to Nebraska any time soon,  and I can't afford the shipping even if I could afford his boat.
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 08:20:47 PM »
I got one for you, 1/3 the price and way more bushy  :canoe:


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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 11:54:50 PM »
It certainly is bushy and a one of a kind backyard hand built paddle craft.  One word Graylon.  Character.  That was a cool find man.

Thanks for the pic.  I'll have to research the design and see what it's based on.



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Offline FlaMike

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 06:17:16 AM »
Wasn't going to get involved because I've not built one (a canoe,) myself. But since "backyard hand built paddle craft" got mentioned, here is some people I've known for years.

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/ Link to the forum is on the Right side of the page. And the Free Plans link on the Left side is for real. Don't click on an "order" button, just send an email to the address shown on those pages. They really are free, not a "come-on" or "bait & switch." I have personally downloaded the kayak and canoe plans, myself. Worth the time, even if you don't decided to build either.

The forum on his site is where you can see the building process, step-by-step, by backyard builders, and they all will answer any questions about how it is done.

Many designs to choose from. Matt, the designer, listens to the builders, answers their questions, and often comes up with new designs based on those interactions. He saw my Glade Skiff build thread on the SouthernPaddler Forum and offered up some very helpful advice.

Mike S.
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 06:34:55 AM »
Thanks Mike.  We used to have a great wood shop in town that would cut bead and cove wood strips. I'll check into it.  Got experience in this so it's a definite possibility.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline Dano

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2015, 06:56:39 AM »
I'm gonna follow this as we're thinking of getting another canoe someday as well.  I've got a late 60's Grumman wide model with square stern, 19 footer if I remember right.  It's a beast, but we took several week-long trips as a family when I was a kid.  It served us very well for those trips with all the gear we took, and four people.

My first experience with modern canoes was when my boys entered Scouts and our Troop had the typical Coleman fiberglass cheaper models, and I wasn't impressed at all.  (I never felt safe when you could feel it flex LOL)

I know I'm old fashioned, and modern materials are really good, but it's hard for me to get a strong, aluminum model out of my mind....stuck in my ways I guess. 

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2015, 07:05:31 AM »
I've got a 16' fiberglass  that is 33 years old this summer. Weights 65lb. It was build on an original Chestnut mold by an small producer. Company was called Pickwauket but seems to be gone now. Too bad.
I've also got a 15 footer that was made by a small defunct Quebec company.

I seem to have a thing for good canoes made by unsuccessful companies.
 
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Offline madmax

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2015, 07:12:54 AM »
I've got a 16' fiberglass  that is 33 years old this summer. Weights 65lb. It was build on an original Chestnut mold by an small producer. Company was called Pickwauket but seems to be gone now. Too bad.
I've also got a 15 footer that was made by a small defunct Quebec company.

I seem to have a thing for good canoes made by unsuccessful companies.

Gene Jenson was a good guy who developed a buncha racing canoe designs. He wintered in my area.  He could put together a woodstrip so fast it makes me look like a fool on a fool's errand.  Got one of his C-1's stored under my pontoon boat.  Probably made cost off his boats.
At least it's not a femur through the pelvis.

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2015, 07:15:42 AM »
I've got a 16' fiberglass  that is 33 years old this summer. Weights 65lb. It was build on an original Chestnut mold by an small producer. Company was called Pickwauket but seems to be gone now. Too bad.
I've also got a 15 footer that was made by a small defunct Quebec company.

I seem to have a thing for good canoes made by unsuccessful companies.

Gene Jenson was a good guy who developed a buncha racing canoe designs. He wintered in my area.  He could put together a woodstrip so fast it makes me look like a fool on a fool's errand.  Got one of his C-1's stored under my pontoon boat.  Probably made cost off his boats.

It's a very tight market with a narrow profit margin indeed. That companies like Old Town and a few others can survive is a small miracle.
Small hobby producers have to do it for the love.
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Offline FlaMike

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2015, 07:26:33 AM »
The JEM Watercraft boats are generally stitch & glue construction. But quite a few have been built as strip planked. And at least some of the designs are now offered with strip plank construction as a build option. I know that the Freedom 15 has been converted, but if you email Matt, he can tell you which others are currently available as strip plank, and if there is one you like that isn't , there's a good chance he'll convert it for you and add it to his inventory.

The very first picture I saw of a Glade Skiff was on the JEM Watercraft site forum. Someone posted a pic of it, to see if anyone knew anything about the design. Matt studied it, made some prelim drawings, posted them for input, and as a result, he eventually designed his first SUP. Never did come up with a Glade Skiff design, but that SUP was popular. I know several were built.

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Offline Punty

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 09:15:28 AM »
That is a sweet looking canoe Tony. I have really given any thought of replacing my Pack kayak I really love that boat.

As far as a double I might look at this model from Old Towne.
http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/penobscot/penobscot_174/
Not as light as the one you posted but lighter in the pocket.

  This is what I have. I bought it used (for $300!!). EDIT: Mine is Discovery, not Penobscot...but same size.

   It is a fantastic canoe, wide bottom, very stable, can carry an ungodly amount of stuff if required.  Can be carried by one person, two for women or elderly....I am getting to the point in my mid 40's that I can still carry it alone, but worry abotu straining the back when slinging it over my shoulders.

  It has good leg room and is a great fishing canoe.

   My standard advice to anyone looking to buy a canoe is, buy used.  In my experience, there are many canoe's that get sold new, people use them for 10 trips or so, and then they just sit in the yard taking up space never being used again.

   Most used canoe's have very little mileage and wear and tear on them, and are just as good as new.

   As an example, the one I bought for $300, wasn't even for sale, I was just helping someone move stuff out of the garage and made an offer, and he took it. He hadn't used it in 5 years.

  There is nothing wrong with a new canoe, of course, but there are just too many very lightly used canoe's laying around doing nothing, that folks would like to unload.

   That's my .02 cents on the matter.

If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
Ecclesiastes 10:10

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2015, 09:37:25 AM »
Good advice for sure. :thumbsup:    The outfitters up in Ely, Minnesota, sell off their 'worn in' Kevlar Wenonah canoes in early Spring every year.   Some of these can be pretty heavily damaged, but most just have some 'cosmetic' damage or some easily repaired cuts or holes that you can fix yourself.  Well worth some phone calls for more information as to what is going to be available and when & where!
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Offline zammer

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2015, 10:00:22 AM »
As my wife's retirement approaches and gaining some good friends interested in this sort of stuff,  I'm compelled to look for the ideal tripping tandem canoe.  I've canoe tripped since the early seventies.  Have a great whitewater tripper in the royalex Dagger.  But we are looking and talking about some long (week, weeks) flatwater tripping, both at home and with friends.  I'm diggin' this.  Big bucks but big performance.  Just dreaming...

http://www.wenonah.com/Canoes.aspx?id=50

What is your dream flatwater tripper?

I got $20 towards your retirement dream canoe  :cheers: :canoe:
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2015, 08:20:40 AM »
Good thread. I'm in the market for a canoe. I had a little fiberglass 13 footer for years. Easy to load and carry solo. I sold it when I got my boat and have missed having it. My daughter is interested in canoeing, fishing, camping, etc. so I'd like to get one for us to do some flatwater fishing, maybe some tripping and such.


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Offline Punty

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2015, 12:36:05 PM »
  I have a motorboat that my firends' love, they do a lot of fishing with it, and go on picnics on the islands in the middle of the lake.

   Myself, I almost never go out on it. I much prefer the canoe. I'm never in a hurry, and I don't care for the roaring motor on my trips. I prefer just the sound of the paddle, and listen to the wildlife as I go.

   Something about a canoe just allows you to take in the trip in a way a motorboat can't do, where you just rush by not hearing anything but the motor.
If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
Ecclesiastes 10:10

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2015, 12:51:37 PM »
........my feelings, exactly! :cheers:
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Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2015, 03:44:09 PM »
My daughter is interested in canoeing, fishing, camping, etc. so I'd like to get one for us to do some flatwater fishing, maybe some tripping and such.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2015, 09:06:10 AM »
My daughter is interested in canoeing, fishing, camping, etc. so I'd like to get one for us to do some flatwater fishing, maybe some tripping and such.
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Heck, I know. She'll be driving soon ... and will probably have other interests.  :(
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Offline greyhound352

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2015, 04:09:01 PM »
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2015, 06:01:19 PM »
Here's a Souris River Canoe, Quetico 17 LeTiger on craigs list in Saint Augustine.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4970919890.html

And the web site,
http://www.sourisriver.com/quetico_17.html
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2015, 07:04:11 PM »
The older I get, the more I drool over those Kevlar boats! :drool:    We don't see any Souris River canoes up this away, but I've eyeballed them for years......any of you Kracs own one? :shrug:
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2015, 06:50:18 AM »
Not to my knowledge Craig. First time I had seen their site. Hush is the only one with kevlar canoe that I know.
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
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Offline Quenchcrack

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Re: Ideal Tripping Canoe
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2015, 07:25:33 AM »
Our first (and last) canoe was a Wenona Fisherman.  It is still made after 35 years so it must have been a good design.  Did a lot of paddling when my kids were still small and we could fit me, my wife, and two small kids (with pfd's) in the canoe.  It had cane seats, too!  I think it was in the 60# range.  Great canoe for $400 new!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 07:35:26 AM by MaxEntropy »
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