Author Topic: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here  (Read 8755 times)

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Offline arngmechanic

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For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:32:15 PM »
How hard would it be to make a fairbairn-Sykes model 3 lookalike? i REALLY want one but i want it to have good steel, be tougher that a russian woodswoman, and be prettier than katherine zeta-jones. well, in all reality i want tough, and sharp. and stay sharp. with polished blade, and wire wrapped handle. but a kydex sheath or a nicer leather friction fit instead of the style they used. Could any of you please give me guidance?

Offline Red

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 09:35:04 PM »
Is this what you are talking about?
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Offline arngmechanic

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For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 09:36:05 PM »
Yep! That's the one!

Well the top one

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Offline arngmechanic

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 08:41:30 AM »
Do you think it could be done?


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Offline crashdive123

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2015, 10:11:31 AM »
My freehand dagger grinding is not ready for prime time yet.

Offline Spyder1958

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2015, 07:35:25 PM »
Wife found this old relic at a yard sale, seems like good carbon steel, can't find any info on it. haven't messed with it much, not very useful for much IMHO



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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2015, 07:40:10 PM »
What are the diameters, in thousandths, of the two largest knobs at the rear part of the handle?
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Offline upthecreek

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2015, 08:02:06 PM »
would be hell on a lung  :shrug:

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Offline Red

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 09:21:57 PM »
Do you think it could be done?


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Could it be done, yes. Done by anyone here... Doubtful. And even if one of the makers here wanted to try and tackle it, it definitely would be cost prohibitive. There are a lot of hour just into making that blade, let alone milling the handle and all that. I see that build turning into nothing more than one big headache. Good luck in your search though :)
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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2015, 09:36:54 PM »
Atlanta Cutlery offers an inexpensive replica that may suit your needs.  :shrug:

http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-1071-fairbairn-sykes-commando-knife.aspx


The reviews seem to be pretty good from owners who at least know something about the original design......not just mall-rat reviews. ;)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 09:42:12 PM by wolfy »
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 03:20:29 AM »
What are the diameters, in thousandths, of the two largest knobs at the rear part of the handle?

Craig, I'll have to go out to the shop this evening an check. Get back to you.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 05:46:48 AM »
 :thumbsup: :cheers:
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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 07:18:24 AM »
Wife found this old relic at a yard sale, seems like good carbon steel, can't find any info on it. haven't messed with it much, not very useful for much IMHO




Although I doubt your yard-sale score is an original specimen, it may be an attempt at a reproduction or modification of a 'plug-type bayonet' for a military smoothbore musket.  These were the first type of bayonet that the French came up with when they were leaning toward phasing out the troops who were sent into battle armed only with 'pikes' or spears.  Instead, each fusilier was issued a bayonet which could do double duty as a knife in hand to hand, close-quarter combat.  The 'socket-type' bayonet was the next step up in design improvement because the 'plug-type' version, which was inserted into the muzzle of the musket, obviously prevented the fusilier from using his weapon as a firearm and only as a spear.........or turned it into one after a loaded weapon was fired by mistake with it in place. ;D   

Here's an example.... http://www.gggodwin.com/prod-76.htm

The reason I asked about the diameter of the two spherical 'knobs' on the handle was to find out how close they would come to the bore-diameter of the smoothbore French muskets and their reproductions from this period of time.  That would not be the end-all solution to the mystery, however, as the surplus bayonets were also sold & modified for use in Northwest 'trade-guns' during the early days of the fur trade.

Sorry for the blatant 'derail' of the Fairbairn-Sykes discussion, but I thought it might be kind of interesting to others, as well.   I'm old enough to remember when the Fairbairn-Sykes daggers were being offered for sale as surplus items in outdoor magazines......I wanted one, but Dad didn't think I 'needed' one.  Dirt-cheap, of course.......makes me sick to think about it! >:(
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 07:42:21 AM »
Craig, I understand where you were going with you thoughts, but the circumference of the handle near the guard is much smaller than the butt, so I think this one wouldn't work for your thinking... The thing would wobble if stuck in a bore, Ithink.


Anyway, It is a good looking tool for what it might be used for, but not , as was said, I think, not set up to handle woodscrafting. It's design lends itself to sticking into things for dispatching them, if ya know what I mean, or... opening letters... ;-)


   Anyway, I too have always wanted a FBSykes knife, just to hold & own, but as far as it being used for much...opening envelopes would likely be its primary job. I can think of better knives for the other purposes...  LOL
 ;)


  G'luck in your search, arngmechanic!
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Offline arngmechanic

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 08:04:14 AM »
Thanks a lot, wolfy! Just what I wanted!


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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 08:18:17 AM »
JB, yeah, I understand what you're saying.......that's why I said it looked like a MODIFICATION of the plug-type bayonet design.  If the handle were reversed, it would pretty much be a dead-ringer for the bayonet......merely speculation on my part, of course, but just an attempt to find a solution for its design roots.  :shrug:

Arngmechanic......g lad I could help! O:-)
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Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 08:58:39 AM »
^imteresting stuff, there, Wolfy. Didn't know any of that. Seems like a bad idea, to me, plugging something into the barrel of your gun...


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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 09:38:36 AM »
I suspect that's probably what the French eventually concluded, too, KK!  :P   :rofl:
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Offline Dano

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 09:46:51 AM »
Before buying one, I would recommend checking your local laws/ordinances to be sure you can legally have one.  Many places restrict possession of a double-edged knife.  A swedge gets by because most of them aren't sharpened, but are there to lighten the blade, hence being called a "false edge".  Our state used to prohibit double edged knives (also called them Dirks), but I'm not sure if they are still on the prohibited weapon list or not.

While this is not to be considered the end all, here is an example  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#United_States_of_America

If you scroll down to US Federal law and also state law, it gives examples of how some jurisdictions define certain knives.  Not to be a downer, but I don't want to see anyone get in trouble.....just FYI

Offline Unknown

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 10:10:03 AM »
The discussion prompted me to go back and look at other OSS/SOE edged weapons that might have a slightly more bushcrafty use like lapel and thumb daggers. Maybe? Some folks have small pointy things in their survival tins for making spears, arrows, darts. The way the sheaths were made for these is still neat. It might not be legal to sew a double edged micro shank to your lapel or inside a shirt sleeve, or maybe not even safe if you fell, but there is probably a way to make a similar thing legal, single edged perhaps. The sheath could be sewn on so it is not concealed, to possibles bag, ditty bag, pack, etc.

I've seen broadhead sheaths made for single arrows but cannot recall one made in the old OSS sew on style. Maybe its been done, but that's where my mind drifted.

If I recall the FS stiletto was criticized for being weak at the guard, a lot of them snapped.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 10:49:30 AM »
I recall seeing an old black & white video/training film teaching Col. Applegate's methods on using the F-S in the Brit's favored 'thrust style' of knife fighting, which was COMPLETELY different than the methods taught by the U.S. Marine Corps. 

That is easily seen in the design of each knife.  The F-S was originally designed as a covert 'special-ops' type weapon where the user was sticking his opponent in the liver, through the ribs and into the heart or slitting a throat from behind.......no rough stabbing or slashing. :spider:      The Bowie-style Kabar-type knife was used in the head-on, confrontational, 'anything goes' rough and tumble fighting methods used by the U.S. Army & Marine Corps,   :duel:     which would have snapped the weaker F-S design like a twig. 

Both designs, were and are, very effective when used as they were intended. :shocked:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 12:45:01 PM by wolfy »
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Offline arngmechanic

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 10:51:04 AM »
Then I want a ka-bar lol.


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Offline crashdive123

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2015, 02:07:26 PM »
Then I want a ka-bar lol.


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Go with a Crashbar......they're tougher. :rolleyes:

Offline Spyder1958

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2015, 06:57:31 PM »
wolfy, starting just behind the guard after brass the bottom turned ring is .600 the last in that 1st group is .700
the last at the hilt is .878 to .882 varies as I check 4 points around.
the second from the hilt is .950 to .955 and the 3rd is .882.
I don't think it has been modified from the original.
the steel, wood and leather look old, it doesn't seem to be a production, looking at the grind and the build.




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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2015, 07:29:16 PM »
Now, in seeing the better pictures, it does look old, but those measurements you gave, indicate to me that it may STILL be a factory modification of 'plug-bayonet' parts made into a more conventional dagger offered for sale when the manufacturer was hung with leftover parts after the new socket-type bayonets were adopted.

If your handle were reversed, the .600 to .700 tapered ring section would readily fit into the nominal .69 caliber bore of the standard, smoothbore French Charleville musket of the period.  The larger-dimensioned knobs would then come to rest at the muzzle as a 'stop' and also provide a large handy set of knobs to grasp when pulling it free of the barrel.  With not much more than again reversing the turned wooden handle and with the addition of a nice brass ferrule, an obsolete 'plug type' bayonet or a warehouse full of leftover parts could be turned around and marketed as an attractive dagger to traders and Indians alike. It's an interesting, yet plausible speculation........ .OR total bullschidt.  Your call. :[

Give ya' 10 bucks fer it! :shrug: :rofl:

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 07:43:19 PM by wolfy »
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Offline wolfy

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2015, 04:25:35 PM »
Thanks a lot, wolfy! Just what I wanted!


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Arngmechanic, if you have not ordered that 'knockoff' Fairbairn-Sykes and REALLY want the genuine article, I found these available on eBay......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390605389505?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Tempting, even for me, since I always did want one when they were relatively cheap surplus items.......long, long ago. :(

SPYDER......still waiting for Dr. Hanson to get back in town.  I haven't forgotten! 8)
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: For All You Awesome Knife Makers On Here
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2015, 12:54:23 PM »

SPYDER......still waiting for Dr. Hanson to get back in town.  I haven't forgotten! 8)


No hurry Craig.

 Red and some of the Krac's looked at the blade and could make out a makers mark, althought very faint. Red suggested polish and acid wash may bring out the mark.
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