Author Topic: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS  (Read 53853 times)

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Offline wolfy

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #150 on: July 09, 2016, 08:51:50 PM »
Take a tip from me, NEB......you're not cut out to be a farmer. :lol:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #151 on: July 09, 2016, 09:18:32 PM »
NEB, I agree something will happen.  Maybe natural causes maybe man made.  When is anybody's guess. 
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Offline vallehombre

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #152 on: July 09, 2016, 09:41:28 PM »
The Green Revolution addressed that starting in the 1920's.  Critics now point out that the number of people who will eventually starve has increased dramatically.

Here is a Wikipedia version of the events: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

Your concern about the depletion of the soil begs the question "what is the alternative?"  Who gets to decide who starves and who lives?

With your scenario regarding food waste, if it were eliminated, then mankind would buy some time but if you are right about the depletion of the earth then eventually it really doesn't matter.
In short, the Earth cannot support this much human population. Even if we did drastically change our ways to be more ecologically sound, you are right - it would then only be a matter of time.

Call me "crazy", but I think there will be a very drastic event that will affect the whole planet, and I believe it will occur within the next 50 years. And if my suspicions are correct, then our so-called "advancements" and technologies will be our downfall. But that's a topic for another discussion.

Good thoughts. Well said. Thanks for them

Offline wolfy

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Offline wolfy

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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #155 on: July 15, 2016, 05:55:32 PM »
8,000 acres of edited canola isn't much in the scheme of things.  From all reports GMO products are safe but we used to believe in witches not that long ago.

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Offline wolfy

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #156 on: July 15, 2016, 05:59:09 PM »
......and continue to, apparently. :shrug:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #157 on: July 15, 2016, 10:11:21 PM »
Yes, some folks still do.  A few of them might reside here too.   :-X
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Offline Orbean

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #158 on: July 18, 2016, 05:08:11 PM »
Yes, some folks still do.  A few of them might reside here too.   :-X

I know witches are real, I lived with one for eight years. Lol
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Offline wolfy

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #159 on: July 18, 2016, 05:14:01 PM »
 :rofl: :hail:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #160 on: July 18, 2016, 05:36:06 PM »
Yes, some folks still do.  A few of them might reside here too.   :-X

I know witches are real, I lived with one for eight years. Lol

I don't mean to laugh but that is funny.  Her car could be called Broomstick 1 huh?
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Offline wolfy

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Offline imnukensc

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #162 on: September 07, 2016, 08:29:20 AM »


I'll take the GMO corn with a side of pesticide, please.  And couldja throw a little Sevin dust on them green beans?  Thanks!
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2016, 01:45:16 PM »
 :thumbsup:
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Offline Unknown

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #164 on: September 08, 2016, 02:59:22 AM »


I'll take the GMO corn with a side of pesticide, please.  And couldja throw a little Sevin dust on them green beans?  Thanks!

A good plan for you.

Me, I will plant 4X the corn I need. You can raise children with micro encephalopathy, 4 X less brain than needed. I'm sure it will work out in the end as worms demand equal access to intelligence since there is less distance to cross
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Offline imnukensc

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #165 on: September 08, 2016, 06:21:32 AM »
A good plan for you.

Me, I will plant 4X the corn I need. You can raise children with micro encephalopathy, 4 X less brain than needed. I'm sure it will work out in the end as worms demand equal access to intelligence since there is less distance to cross

Please post some pics of your garden!  I'd love to see them.  Would you feel like a big, old turd if I told you I had a child with microcephaly?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 07:03:02 AM by imnukensc »
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Offline wolfy

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #167 on: October 19, 2016, 11:50:48 AM »
To be honest, I am more concerned about antibiotic use than GMO.

We are running out of effective human antibiotics as a result of bacteria developing resistance. Widespread use of antibiotics in livestock could be contributing. Needs more research.

As for the GMO stuff, ultimately it is all the same organic compounds even if they are arranged differently. I don't have a problem with eating GMO corn, for example.

We do need to find a way to stop killing off honey bees. If we can accomplish that through GMO versus pesticides, that might be a better solution.

Offline NewEnglandBushcraft

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #168 on: October 19, 2016, 06:22:27 PM »
With GMOs, I do wish every state had mandatory labelling so that people at least know if the food they're eating has GMOs in it or not. Personally, I prefer organic whenever I can get it, though I do not know enough about GMOs to completely condemn them. But for now, I'm a skeptic.

I think some people get confused between genetic engineering and cross-hybridization. They are not exactly the same. Corn, for instance, is technically a grass and evolved through centuries of hybridization (controlled by humans) to bear more fruit. And oftentimes, species will naturally hybridize with each other on their own...and again, I allude to grasses because they are our most adaptable and arguably the most successful plants in the world. Genetic engineering of corn takes this evolution to the next level (in an advanced, Star Trek, mad-scientist-like level) by splicing in genetics from other plants and animals to give the corn traits such as resistance to chemical pesticide as well as some common insect pests. To me, that's 'freakin crazy and scary to think that, in theory, we can produce almost anything we want in a lab.

I don't condemn anyone for eating or choosing to eat GMO foods, but I often wonder in trepidation what the next laboratory invention will be.


As for the antibiotics, I think we're screwing ourselves in that regard. All we're doing is creating more and more antibiotic-resistant super-bugs. MRSA is bad enough, do we really need legions of other nightmarish bacteria to cause us more problems?
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #169 on: October 28, 2016, 01:05:22 AM »
From a biology standpoint, I would need compelling proof that gene editing is somehow producing something that could never occur in nature.

For example, if you look at how different traits occur in living organisms, it is through natural mutations brought about by things like cosmic rays, totally random mutations, etc.

Some mutations are favorable and the organism lives on and thrives. Others are unfavorable and don't get passed on to the next generation.

If a genetically modified organism's specific mutations could conceivably have occurred through natural mutations over a long time and with a lot of luck, I don't see how that is fundamentally different than skipping tens of thousands of years of pure dumb luck by making the changes happen instantly through technology.

But, as I said before, if it can be proven that these changes could never occur naturally, then I might be opposed to GMO food.

I ate a pack of ramen noodles a couple of days ago that had a label saying it contains GMO products. I don't feel any different.

Offline wolfy

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Offline Orbean

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #172 on: July 07, 2017, 10:39:02 PM »
I am beginning to warm up to GMO's; have been reading up, trying to learn more. Recently found out the herbicides round up replaced were on the order of ten times more toxic. Still freaked out and concerned about cross species genetics and believe we need to tread very carefully.
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #173 on: July 07, 2017, 10:54:24 PM »
Yeah, it is hard to know what to believe. The real question is whether the scientists developing this stuff feed it to their families.

I was a little surprised to see the new labeling on some very common food products.

Offline hayshaker

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #174 on: July 08, 2017, 05:35:18 PM »
wow is this  a political thread.

Offline wolfy

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2017, 05:46:05 PM »
wow is this  a political thread.
It's a very controversial subject with strong feelings on all sides, but the only reason it has survived 4 pages of discussion (175 posts) is because we've managed to keep the politics completely out of it.....speaks pretty highly of the forum members we have here at B&B! :hail:
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2017, 07:30:47 PM »
I have corn this year 15'ft outside my window last yr beans.
we cash rent land and have family who actively farm.
as for me my opinion is one day this whole biotech deal
will bite us all on the kiester in the worst way.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:20:46 PM by hayshaker »

Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2017, 09:57:11 PM »
... and you may be right or you may be wrong.  At that is all we have to say on the matter. 
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #178 on: July 09, 2017, 05:25:08 AM »
I hope am wrong cause God help us if that day comes.

Offline wolfy

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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #180 on: June 21, 2019, 03:35:57 PM »
Interesting.  I knew about the corn, had not seen the painting of the watermelon before. 

In my early days working in New Mexico we found old hearths in the canyons where corncobs were still buried in the debris accumulated in the overhangs from nomadic camps.  This was both along the Rio Grande river and in tributaries to that river in the northern part of the state.  They were all very small, about 3" to 4" long, and about 3/4' in diameter.  The field superintendent said they were from the time of the Cliff Dwellers about 1200 AD.  I encountered these same sized cobs in the southern Colorado canyons over in the eastern part of the area right along the Oklahoma border. 

I always assumed that the cobs were what was left after they scraped the corn off to dry or cook and they had no useful purpose in these remote camps. 
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #181 on: August 21, 2019, 05:44:08 PM »
My problem isn't so much genetic modification per se, it's what the modifications are for- mostly to make them Roundup resistant.  Roundup is incredibly toxic not only to other weeds but to humans.  I'm not a farmer so I can't say this from experience but my understanding is that weed killers and insecticides really don't improve yield all that much.  Certainly though they're making ag chem companies a lot of money.

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #182 on: August 21, 2019, 09:57:51 PM »
I used to have lots of frogs croaking in the evening and big leopard frogs in the yard. This year? Almost nonexistent.
I used to have lots of salamanders. In the yard and on the roads. This year? One.
I used to have a variety of butterflies and a lot of monarchs. This year? A few Monarchs and very very few others.
I used to have a lot of the big fuzzy bumble bees. This year? I really miss 'em.
I used to have a lot of barn swallows. To the point of being pesty. This year? Three nesting pair.
I'm not an academic. I don't get to publish hard earned scientific findings in some fancy publication or submit a paper to some government agency that will promptly misplace it. But - - - - - Something has changed in the past 10 years, and it's concerning. Where do I point an accusing finger?
I read something many years ago about a civilization brought to its knees by the use of lead in their utensils for food preparation and serving. I keep thinking we may repeat history. Not with lead, but with something else deemed "Safe". Either through ignorance or corporate greed, we may be doomed.  :soap:

What have your observations or perceptions been in the past decade? Everything good? Changing?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 10:04:09 PM by Pete Bog »

Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #183 on: August 22, 2019, 12:19:25 PM »
My problem isn't so much genetic modification per se, it's what the modifications are for- mostly to make them Roundup resistant.  Roundup is incredibly toxic not only to other weeds but to humans.  I'm not a farmer so I can't say this from experience but my understanding is that weed killers and insecticides really don't improve yield all that much.  Certainly though they're making ag chem companies a lot of money.

Try harvesting  any grain crop or alfalfa field full of canada thistle and then tell us about yield.  Any plant that competes with another plant for ground area reduces the yield of both of them.  Try keeping leafy spurge and hoary cress out of pastures and rangeland without pesticides and lets us know how that goes for you.

Got a source on how toxic Roundup is?  One backed by sound scientific testing?  It is listed in Europe as a probable carcinogen but they cannot prove it.  A jury awards a fellow with cancer who worked around Roundup chemical and what did they use for proof that it was the cause?  They don't say.    Here is a link from WebMd who doesn't appear to have an axe to grind and one from an unknown (to me) party who makes a couple of statements that should be easy to prove or disprove.  In fairness I can find an equal number of sites that say it is bad stuff but none provide any scientific data.

https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20150407/glyphosate-pesticide-probable-carcinogen#1

https://www.yourdoctorsorders.com/2015/03/roundup-sort-of-a-carcinogen/

It would be nice if we lived in a world that weeds didn't exist but we don't. 

 
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #184 on: August 22, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »

What have your observations or perceptions been in the past decade? Everything good? Changing?

As far as insects go we still have an abundance of them.  Grasshoppers are on the rise this year as they were five years ago.  A abnormally wet year delayed them but they are doing well at the moment.  The only insect I can say has disappeared from the fields is fireflies.  Twenty years ago we had a few, have not seen any for fifteen years.  Rabbits are on the increase and so are the predators that eat them.  More owls and other raptors.  Coyotes are stable, racoons are increasing, and deer are rebounding from the diseases that laid them low a couple of years back.  It was from a gnat that caused hemorrhagic fever.

Most everything else is the same.  Frogs have never been in my reservoir but I think it is because the bass used to eat them all.  I see the same flowers like cone flowers, sunflowers, Indian Paint brush, and so forth. 

The only bird we don't see anymore is the Cedar Waxwings which come through this area but we don't have the habitat they prefer although fifteen years ago we would see a few.  The other birds are present, some in larger numbers and some down a bit.  Red Wing Blackbirds don't seem as numerous in the cattail marsh but Blue Jays and Robins are everywhere.  Towhees too.
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #185 on: August 24, 2019, 01:57:21 AM »
My problem isn't so much genetic modification per se, it's what the modifications are for- mostly to make them Roundup resistant.  Roundup is incredibly toxic not only to other weeds but to humans.  I'm not a farmer so I can't say this from experience but my understanding is that weed killers and insecticides really don't improve yield all that much.  Certainly though they're making ag chem companies a lot of money.

Try harvesting  any grain crop or alfalfa field full of canada thistle and then tell us about yield.  Any plant that competes with another plant for ground area reduces the yield of both of them.  Try keeping leafy spurge and hoary cress out of pastures and rangeland without pesticides and lets us know how that goes for you.

Got a source on how toxic Roundup is?  One backed by sound scientific testing?  It is listed in Europe as a probable carcinogen but they cannot prove it.  A jury awards a fellow with cancer who worked around Roundup chemical and what did they use for proof that it was the cause?  They don't say.    Here is a link from WebMd who doesn't appear to have an axe to grind and one from an unknown (to me) party who makes a couple of statements that should be easy to prove or disprove.  In fairness I can find an equal number of sites that say it is bad stuff but none provide any scientific data.

https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20150407/glyphosate-pesticide-probable-carcinogen#1

https://www.yourdoctorsorders.com/2015/03/roundup-sort-of-a-carcinogen/

It would be nice if we lived in a world that weeds didn't exist but we don't. 

 

I'm not gonna try to harvest anything!  I'm no farmer, I could kill a plastic plant! :lol:  Eat all the glyphosate you want!  You have access to the same information I do.  I'm just going on the word of a doctor and a few scientists, and I have no more proof than the jury did that awarded the dude the money.  If you're genuinely interested in glyphosate there's a lot of reading material.  I suppose it comes down to a philosophy of risk; do you want avoid something with a preponderance of evidence saying it's harmful and minimize your risk or will you keep eating it til there's a smoking gun?  It's possible to avoid the stuff so as long as consumers have the information that's the important thing IMO.

It would nice to live in a world where we erred on the side of caution when approving chemicals used in food production but we don't.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: PROS & CONS OF BIOTECH & GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS
« Reply #186 on: August 24, 2019, 08:53:12 AM »

It would nice to live in a world where we erred on the side of caution when approving chemicals used in food production but we don't.

Well a lot of chemicals have been banned over the years from further use in the USA.  There are several agencies who approve chemicals used in various aspects of agriculture the EPA being one of them.  Whether they are competent or not is a another subject. 

Here is a link to what has been banned over the years:

https://azchemistry.com/how-many-toxic-chemicals-are-banned-in-the-united-states


 
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