Author Topic: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16  (Read 10651 times)

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Offline Wood Trekker

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Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« on: February 01, 2016, 02:46:21 PM »
Again, I know not everyone is interested in these trip reports, and I usually try to give you only one per month, but I?ve been writing more of them because I want to keep you updated on what I?m doing as I am trying to figure out this Classic Backpacking thing I?ve undertaken.

My drive behind this most recent trip was to figure out a better sleep system. After my last trip it became clear to me that camping out with just a blanket, even if it?s a very good one, is not doable when the temperature is much below 32F (0C). While you can stay alive with the use of a fire, sleep becomes almost impossible as you spend your nights trying to maintain the fire, as your warmth is directly and immediately connected to it.

After my last trip Steve Watts recommended that I try a down comforter. They were in fact used at the time, and a cotton shell comforter, filled with goose or duck down, with sewn threw baffles would be period correct. ?There is no doubt that, for comfort, economy of space, lightness, and simplicity, the down quilt has it.? Thomas Hiram Holding, The Camper?s Handbook, 1908 p.163

References to down quilts, comforters, and even bag designs can be found in the writings of most authors at the time. By the 1920s most well funded expeditions relied on down sleeping bags. Between the 1880s and the 1930, sleep systems evolved very quickly.

I have been resisting the use of a down comforter for two reasons. One, I wanted to see what could be done just with the traditional one blanket. Two, even though it was available, none of the authors seem to recommend it as their primary form of insulation. They seemed to resort to wool sleeping bags, woven fur blankets, etc, but none of them appear to have abandoned their other systems for a down filled comforter or sleeping bag.

But, furs are not a realistic option for backpacking, and a woven fur blanket that might be light enough is cost prohibitive. Wool blankets clearly weren?t going to do it, and I?m just not excited about doing too many cold weather trips where I have to be up all night feeding a fire. I also figured, if it?s good enough for the guy teaching classes on Kephart, it?s good enough for me.

So, I went to a local department store, and bought a cotton shell down comforter. It?s the thickest, cheapest, and smallest one I could find: twin size. I went home, made a stuff sack for it from a pillow case, strapped it to my pack, and headed out.

Then came my next big problem. As bad as the weather was last week, this week in my area we have been having temperatures as high as 40F (4C) during the days. Not exactly a good test for the comforter. I decided to drive north for a few hours in the hope that the weather would be cooler there. It was slightly better. When I headed into the woods, it was 24F (-4C). What I didn?t anticipate was how little snow there had been further north from me. There were barely any patches on the ground. It was disappointing, and a bit strange considering I was further north. I decided that because of the nice weather I should add some more difficulty to the trip, and camp out in an area of the forest where I only had hard woods.



Shortly after starting out I had to cross a decent size stream. Water level was high because of the warm weather. I stopped there for lunch and then did a pretty stupid crossing. I should have looked for a better spot to cross.



Crossing done, I spent a few hours backpacking. The drive had taken up most of the morning, so I didn?t have much time. When I found a level patch of ground in a hardwood forest, I got to setting up my camp.

Since I was in an exposed location, and winds were going to be a problem, I opted for a more sheltered tarp set up. I kept it open while cooking in the evening by flipping one of the sides over.



I had my wool blanket with me. I folded it over and used it as a ground pad. At first I pulled some dead leafs together, but they were wet, and I decided to rely primarily on the blanket. Folded in two it?s almost as thick as a regular closed cell foam pad.

It quickly became apparent why authors during the Classic Backpacking period were reluctant to rely on down quilts. We all understand that down is problematic around moisture, but we, or at least I, forget how good modern shell materials really are. While not waterproof, modern down sleeping bags have shells that will resist a lot of moisture. The cotton shell on the down comforter does nothing of the sort. The moment it touches any moisture, it gets absorbed immediately. At first I thought of using different configurations with the blanket, but the blanket had to be on the ground to make sure the comforter doesn?t touch the damp ground. It?s a serious limitation that I have to work around.

Before going to sleep I staked down the second part of the shelter, and wrapped myself in the quilt as I would in a blanket.



During the night it got down to about 18F (-8C). Not cold, but cool enough to test the comforter. It performed very well. Obviously it?s much warmer than a wool blanket. I slept through the night without the use of a fire.

There were some issues though. The wool blanket was not perfect as a ground pad. It worked fine, but I still felt some cold from the ground. I suppose I still need to use some bedding even with the folded wool blanket. Also, even though I had pitched the shelter to cut into the wind, as it usually is, the wind was blowing from every direction. The down comforter, while warm, is not particularly resistant to wind, and the wind cuts right through it. As a result I got cold several times and had to adjust. Overall though, not a bad night.

In the morning I made my way out. I went a considerable distance off my previous path in order to cross the stream further up at an easier location.



The down comforter turned out to be a pretty big success. Together with the blanket, using the blanket as ground insulation and protection from the moisture, it once again opened up the possibility of doing actual cold weather backpacking with traditional gear. The comforter is bulky, weighs 4lb 3oz, and the stuff sack and four extra blanket pins weigh an additional 4oz. It is very susceptible to moisture and doesn?t stop the wind too well. That however is a small price to pay for being able to sleep through the night.

So, that?s it. I just wanted to give you an update on the changes I have been making to my sleep system.

Offline NewEnglandBushcraft

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 03:00:50 PM »
Now that's interesting....I had no idea some outdoorsmen used down-filled bags back then.  I wonder who the genius was who saw the potential :).
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2016, 03:05:23 PM »
Now that's interesting....I had no idea some outdoorsmen used down-filled bags back then.  I wonder who the genius was who saw the potential :).

This was the stage when the technology came about. Down comforters were used by a lot of the authors, although not as their primary choice. Down sleeping bags were just starting to be developed: "Then, as another example, Doctor Loughren, of the Camp Fire Club, showed me an excellent scheme, a sort of quilt bag, made of fine, green, paraffined muslin, and lined with live-goose feathers. It is water-proof and light - 4 pounds, if I remember correctly." Warren Hastings Miller, Camp Craft, 1915, p.58

The Woods Arctic Sleeping Robe was introduced around 1898, and featured a cotton shell, lined with duck down and wool. It was advertised as being six times warmer than wool. Despite its heavy weight of 16lb, it was utilized on a number of cold weather expeditions.

In 1924 Mallory and his team used down sleeping bags when climbing Everest. They were high end stuff, and weren't available to the average person. By the 1940s they were available on the market. By the 1950s when Whelen was writing, blankets were out, and his main comparisons were between rectangular sleeping bags and the new mummy style sleeping bags.

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 03:08:42 PM »
I think we have a lot of misconceptions about woodsmen at that time. It is largely driven by romantic notions of "The Woodsman". The reality is that those people weren't stupid. They weren't going to spend two hours each day gathering wood for large fires and then sleeping in a blanket if they had a better choice. All of them were working very hard to come up with better sleep systems than a canvas tarp, wool blanket, and a long fire.

Offline BigHat

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 04:05:00 PM »
 
Now that's interesting....I had no idea some outdoorsmen used down-filled bags back then.  I wonder who the genius was who saw the potential :) .

This was the stage when the technology came about. Down comforters were used by a lot of the authors, although not as their primary choice. Down sleeping bags were just starting to be developed: "Then, as another example, Doctor Loughren, of the Camp Fire Club, showed me an excellent scheme, a sort of quilt bag, made of fine, green, paraffined muslin, and lined with live-goose feathers. It is water-proof and light - 4 pounds, if I remember correctly." Warren Hastings Miller, Camp Craft, 1915, p.58

The Woods Arctic Sleeping Robe was introduced around 1898, and featured a cotton shell, lined with duck down and wool. It was advertised as being six times warmer than wool. Despite its heavy weight of 16lb, it was utilized on a number of cold weather expeditions.

In 1924 Mallory and his team used down sleeping bags when climbing Everest. They were high end stuff, and weren't available to the average person. By the 1940s they were available on the market. By the 1950s when Whelen was writing, blankets were out, and his main comparisons were between rectangular sleeping bags and the new mummy style sleeping bags.

sounds like the down bags back then were a little more waterproof than what you took out, that may make them a little better in the field too..
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 04:25:34 PM »
Those were just theories floating around at the time. The Woods Arctic Robe was more waterproof, but was not portable at 16lb. I haven't fund much on the sleeping bags used by Mallory and other well equipped expeditions.

I think a lot of what was available at the time in terms of sleeping bags was either diy prototypes, or non backpack portable.

Quilts we do have records of. They were about the same as this one.

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Offline OutdoorEnvy

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 05:30:29 PM »
Good test and effort Ross.  Enjoyed your report as usual.  So a waterproof down comforter that wraps around you easily sounds like the way to go!  If only they made something like that...  ;)
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 05:39:42 PM »
Thanks for sharing your trip & comments.
:thumbsup:


  Be plenty careful, with even those shallower stream crossings. Many a feller has ended up on his butt soaking wet from crossing one with ice & snow & slippery surfaces. Myself included. Hate to hear you ended up as a statistic.
;)


  Noticed the different shelter style too. I know ya said ya used a smaller than usually homemade tarp on your other outings like this one. 7x8 or something.. ??
 What are your thoughts about the difference in styles?

I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Online Yellowyak

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2016, 05:41:38 PM »
Thanks for the report, always enjoy your writings. Please forgive me if this is a silly question, but what did you mean by the below statement. Why would a hardwood forest add more difficulty?

Quote
I decided that because of the nice weather I should add some more difficulty to the trip, and camp out in an area of the forest where I only had hard woods.

Offline Wilderbeast

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2016, 05:53:55 PM »
Thanks for the report, always enjoy your writings. Please forgive me if this is a silly question, but what did you mean by the below statement. Why would a hardwood forest add more difficulty?

Quote
I decided that because of the nice weather I should add some more difficulty to the trip, and camp out in an area of the forest where I only had hard woods.

Evergreen branches make for a good bedding, wet leaves from hardwoods suck.

At a guess. 
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Online Yellowyak

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2016, 05:57:08 PM »
Thanks for the report, always enjoy your writings. Please forgive me if this is a silly question, but what did you mean by the below statement. Why would a hardwood forest add more difficulty?

Quote
I decided that because of the nice weather I should add some more difficulty to the trip, and camp out in an area of the forest where I only had hard woods.

Evergreen branches make for a good bedding, wet leaves from hardwoods suck.

At a guess.

Ah, makes sense now. Thanks for the schoolin'

Offline crashdive123

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 07:01:25 PM »
Thanks for the trip report and pictures.

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 07:33:54 PM »
Fantastic as usual Ross. You quoted a reference to a paraffinned muslin quilt. Are you putting any thought into trying to recreate that? Any mention in your research of down comforters with other shells that would be less hydroscopic? A shell made from summer-weight suit wool might stay dryer (but cost a fortune in money and construction time)


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Offline zammer

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 07:47:30 PM »
Good stuff  :thumbsup:
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 04:12:34 AM »
Thanks guys. I chose this quilt because it represents what was commonly available to the average woodsman at the time. I can certainly design and build many things, or use the most high tech stuff that was being developed at the time, but it feels like I would be cheating, and it would make things too easy.

The tarp configuration didn't do much. The wind got in, and I expect so would have rain and snow.

With respect to hardwood forest, I find it more difficult because of the bedding, especially if there is snow (you are left using brush and bark); as well as fire building.  I would say that about 80% of the type of fires we see described that work great with pine and birch, are a nightmare to maintain with hickory and oak.

Oh, and not to worry about the river crossing; I was wearing all wool clothing, so I would have been warm either way. ;)

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 06:51:06 AM »

Oh, and not to worry about the river crossing; I was wearing all wool clothing, so I would have been warm either way. ;)


LMAO!!!

Maybe that down comforter would make for a good floatation device as well.  Never know until you try.  Next trip maybe?   ;D
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Offline vallehombre

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 09:37:13 AM »
Another great trip report. Thank you.

Offline Yeoman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 10:20:35 AM »

Oh, and not to worry about the river crossing; I was wearing all wool clothing, so I would have been warm either way. ;)


LMAO!!!

Maybe that down comforter would make for a good floatation device as well.  Never know until you try.  Next trip maybe?   ;D
A kapok comforter would be a great multiuse item: water resistant bedding and packable raft?
It would even be a period correct material.
Hahaha
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2016, 10:27:53 AM »
I thought about it, but it's too bulky to carry in a pack. :)

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 01:54:54 AM »
Again, I know not everyone is interested in these trip reports,

Hey Ross, please stop that nonsense, those trip reports are great and myself and several other people that I know of here in Czech Republic and in the Netherlands follow them with great interest.
So if you crank the amount of trip reports up, you'll make us for sure happy :-)

And thank you for spending time and effort on this quest, it's appreciated.
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 03:18:42 AM »
Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it.

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Offline NewEnglandBushcraft

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 05:06:44 PM »
Those were just theories floating around at the time. The Woods Arctic Robe was more waterproof, but was not portable at 16lb. I haven't fund much on the sleeping bags used by Mallory and other well equipped expeditions.

I think a lot of what was available at the time in terms of sleeping bags was either diy prototypes, or non backpack portable.

Quilts we do have records of. They were about the same as this one.

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Any mention of feather quilts back then?
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 05:10:23 PM »
Yes. Kephart, Miller, Holding mention them. I'm sure others do as well. Other than Holding, it doesn't seem like any adopted them for primary use.

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Offline Orbean

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 08:07:39 PM »
I really enjoy your trip reports, you put a lot of effort into them and it shows.  Thanks for another good one.
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2016, 05:51:05 AM »
Thank you. :)

Offline gizamo

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 07:02:30 PM »
Ross..

As a dyed in the wool fan... >:D

Have you ever tried a Monmouth Cap?  It might just keep you warmer when idling about camp or sleeping...

Great trip report... this is the best in your 3 part series.   Great service done...and like the research.

Giz

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 12:01:13 PM »
Thanks Giz. I hadn't heard of a Monmouth Cap before. I haven't done much hat research because the one I have has always been warm enough, at times too warm. I'll check it out though.

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2016, 04:45:42 PM »
if nothing else, using period correct materials sure teach an appreciation of what our fore fathers endured on a daily basis.   Very interesting reading here.

Offline NewEnglandBushcraft

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2016, 06:01:25 PM »
if nothing else, using period correct materials sure teach an appreciation of what our fore fathers endured on a daily basis.   Very interesting reading here.
:thumbsup: Hear, hear!  :cheers:

It's fascinating to me how much things have changed in 270+ years. They had to be tough, adaptable individuals...or else they risked disaster, especially in early expeditions.
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2016, 06:06:21 AM »
The woodsmen we know about from history are the ones who became legends even during their own time. The average long hunter, mountain man, or prospector had a very short run. They either died or had to turn back.

Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2016, 07:52:27 AM »
The woodsmen we know about from history are the ones who became legends even during their own time. The average long hunter, mountain man, or prospector had a very short run. They either died or had to turn back.


Huh?
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline gizamo

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 04:51:36 PM »
Thanks Giz. I hadn't heard of a Monmouth Cap before. I haven't done much hat research because the one I have has always been warm enough, at times too warm. I'll check it out though.

If you have a chance to get one....make sure it has been fulled properly.  Much warmer that way.
Reading your research... I might have missed if the woolen items tested were fulled or not.

Giz

Offline mneedham

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 05:19:32 PM »
Great stuff!  Thank you...

Offline Yeoman

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Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 05:58:43 PM »
The woodsmen we know about from history are the ones who became legends even during their own time. The average long hunter, mountain man, or prospector had a very short run. They either died or had to turn back.
That, and most would likely have been illiterate and left no record.

Gizmo,
What's fulling all about?


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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 07:05:04 PM »
The woodsmen we know about from history are the ones who became legends even during their own time. The average long hunter, mountain man, or prospector had a very short run. They either died or had to turn back.
That, and most would likely have been illiterate and left no record.



Another 'huh?"...

   I can provide you with information easily available ( reliable historical weblinks) to disprove these types of thoughts & statements, but I don't think they belong in this topic. Perhaps some reading/research about the history of "the average long hunter, mountain man, or prospector" would convince some folks that they would be mistaken in thinking those sorts of thoughts.


    Just to give an example, is that in just the "mountain man"/fur trapping era along on the West side of the Mississippi covered an era of approx 35- 40 years from about the time of Lewis & Clark expedition (John Coulter) 1803/1805 to 1840-45. The last rendezvous was in 1840 due to the amount of attendees being reduced in number due to the lack of demand for beaver skins since silk had become the fashion. Not due to a lack of mountain men being dead or turning back. Many of these folks spent 4-5 Years in the mountains before going back to civilization, not to stay, but to visit with relatives, or attend to business matters back East of the mountains. MAny also stayed in the West & did not return to "civilization, but desired to live out their days in the West. Another thing to realize is many of these folks of "that" time period, "retired" from the beaver fur trade, or made their living using their skills from their time in the woods/mountains to act as traders in the West, Army scouts for exploration, emigrant wagon train guides, & buffalo hunting (to provide skins from that animal to meet the demand where the beaver left off). I can add more about times previous in the era of 1750 to the time of Lewis & Clark about the long hunters, but I have gone on long enough.

I won't clutter this topic any longer in dispute of un-informed thoughts/statements about those groups of people. Perhaps a topic would be in order to discuss, but it is not worth the time unless there is interest in folks knowing more...



  :)   

(ETA: I too, dislike seeing things passed on the internet that do not run true.
;) )   
I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 08:24:24 PM »
@MnSportsman: You should have clearly left your statement at "Huh?". This is a very poor and childish way to deal with whatever has hurt your ego. While I am happy to discuss the mountain men era, clearly your posts here have a different agenda and I'm just not interested in playing.

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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 09:46:57 PM »
@MnSportsman: You should have clearly left your statement at "Huh?". This is a very poor and childish way to deal with whatever has hurt your ego. While I am happy to discuss the mountain men era, clearly your posts here have a different agenda and I'm just not interested in playing.

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 Poor & childish? Hurt Ego? It appears to me that you only show more ignorance, young man, in making statements such as that.. Much like your earlier ones I addressed in my last post. Your statements such as the one before that I quoted & the one quoted above, demonstrates the "poor & childish" & " hurt ego" in a young man who cannot back up what he says, so he tries to discount the truth, by trying to discredit the truth of American History & my pointing out that your statements have no basis in historical fact... With the addition of not being willing to enter into any discourses that would show the inaccuracy of his statements. Poor show, IMO... 


   Note that the only "agenda" I might demonstrate with my last post, is to try to correct your poor knowledge on things about "long hunters, mountain men & prospectors" to try to prevent you from spreading falsehoods. Perhaps try to get you to actually go do a bit of research before you post up your "opinion" & not facts.


  Once again, I can prove my words with proven historical information. You, unfortunately cannot, with your quoted words. No wonder you hesitate in "playing" some invented "game" as you claim it to be. You cannot provide any proof for your words. Of course you don't want to engage in any discourse with me on that subject... You don't have the factual knowledge to do so, but only some conjecture based on nothing, but your opinion...


  Make the Topic, or I can, since I will not clutter this one with the links for provenance of what I have written in that earlier post, to prevent further sidetracking here. Demonstrate your knowledge of American history, in the eras you mentioned, by posting up your historical resources & proof of your statements. I think you are lacking in that knowledge, or you wouldn't make such inaccurate statements like you did. You say you wish to dispel inaccurate information on the internet, yet you post inaccurate info yourself... I wonder your claim to try to dispel falsehoods is so true, now...


  BTW, I would not have returned to this topic with any more words about your inaccuracies, but since you decided to insult me, and I know that what I mentioned shows your ignorance on the subject, so you attempt to belittle me. Sad behavior, IMO.  It won't work. You will only make yourself to be foolish to pursue your poor opinion of what is based on historical fact.


   I will not respond to your posts on this matter here, any longer, as I do not wish to "play", "Your" little game of insults & attempts to belittle the truth of what I posted. Until you can prove your statements about those "average" long hunters, mountain men & prospectors having a short run, and only dying or turning back, you will remain ignorant of what historical fact demonstrates & that historical fact does prove those statements of yours to be false..


   


   

I love being out in the woods!   I like this quote from Mors Kochanski - "The more you know, the less you carry". I believe in the same creed, & think  "Knowledge & honed skills" are the best things to carry with ya when you're out in the wilds. They're the ultimate "ultralight" gear! ;)

Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 10:32:10 PM »
@MnSportsman: Like I said earlier, I have zero interest in playing along with these silly games. If at some point you would like to invest the time to at least raise your argument to the level of straw-man, maybe I'll play along. As it stands, you wrote a lengthy and insulting post after two other members chose to ignore your earlier trolling. In said post you attempted to correct those people and tell them how they are wrong while at the same time inexplicably failing to contradict a single statement made in those posts. Is your contention that most long-hunters, mountain men and prospectors were literate, and as such felt the need to belittle Yeoman's post? I haven't done a tally, but I suspect he may be onto something. Or perhaps you disagree with my assertion that the woodsmen with whom we are familiar from history are the ones who became famous during their own time? Perhaps you are a scholar and know every prospector and long-hunter, but I suspect most of us know the ones whose deeds made them noteworthy. You don't seem to be disagreeing with the assertion that the average prospector, long-hunter, or mountain man had a very short run, in fact supplying the average number of years yourself... well, at least for mountain men. What was the success rate for a prospector? That's a rhetorical question.

So, considering that you have come into this thread, attempted to start conflict, have been ignored, and have now made a second, very poor attempt by insulting other members while strangely not making any points which disagree with the statements made by said members, I think it's safe to say you are here with a different agenda. I so happen to know what it is, and have been happily ignoring you, and will gladly continue to do so.

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 10:56:34 PM »
what I said was there long enough for regular readers. No need for it to become a permanent part of the thread. Edited
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 09:20:00 AM by Unknown »
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Offline gizamo

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2016, 05:11:23 AM »
http://members.peak.org/~spark/felting-fulling.html

Link above explains the fulling process...

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2016, 01:31:14 PM »

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2016, 04:34:50 PM »
http://members.peak.org/~spark/felting-fulling.html

Link above explains the fulling process...

Very cool. Thanks.

Mention this because I believe your heart is in the right place. 
Your time lines might be the source of confusion.  Woolen blankets of the 18th  century are a different cat then the 19th and 20th century.  Modern manufacturing changed the nature of the beast. Mostly reducing cost.

That is why a properly  carded an fulled wool blanket will run you $ 400 plus or minus.

Realize this is not a true representation of the topic....you are trying to re-enact. Just putting it out there for your future research.

Ever want to come and do a Winter long hunt up here in Mass. Bay Colony, District of Mayne....circa late 1700's.

Drop me a line.




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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2016, 06:17:53 PM »
http://members.peak.org/~spark/felting-fulling.html

Link above explains the fulling process...

Very cool. Thanks.

Mention this because I believe your heart is in the right place. 
Your time lines might be the source of confusion.  Woolen blankets of the 18th  century are a different cat then the 19th and 20th century.  Modern manufacturing changed the nature of the beast. Mostly reducing cost.

That is why a properly  carded an fulled wool blanket will run you $ 400 plus or minus.

Realize this is not a true representation of the topic....you are trying to re-enact. Just putting it out there for your future research.

Ever want to come and do a Winter long hunt up here in Mass. Bay Colony, District of Mayne....circa late 1700's.

Drop me a line.
Well, I'm replicating late 19th and early 20th century techniques, so I'm stuck with gear correct to that period.

That being said, I grew up in Eastern Europe, where wool blankets and clothing were the norm. I've used just about every type of wool blanket, including hand woven ones. I don't know how they compare to American 18th century blankets though. I had a Pendleton wool blanket which wasn't cheap at all. The one I use now is warmer. I'm not sure how the Pendleton one compares to the average 18th century blanket either.

Was there any established standard for blankets in the 18th century? I know the point system, and I've used a 4pt Hudson Bay blanket which I wasn't crazy about, (too much size, not enough thickness), but that's just a size designation. I don't know if they make them now the way they made them back then.

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« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 06:26:46 PM by Wood Trekker »

Offline gizamo

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2016, 06:30:25 PM »

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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2016, 08:46:22 PM »
roos how old were you when you came to the USA? just curious
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Re: Trip Report Part 3: Classic Backpacking 1/30/16 - 1/31/16
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2016, 08:16:14 AM »
Ross... for your perusal. ..

http://www.historicaltrekking.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20012.
Thank you. I've been leaning toward blankets with loose weave rather than tight one because they provide more warmth for the weight, and weight has been crucial because I'm backpacking. The shedding of rain hasn't been an issue for me because I use a tarp.

By how much would you say fulling a blanket increases the weight per square foot?

Do you have any way of telling which blanket has been fulled, or is close to the quality/type used in the 18th century? How can I tell?

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