Author Topic: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place  (Read 4650 times)

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Offline dumbass

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Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« on: June 26, 2018, 10:40:27 AM »
I'm out of options.  A couple of weeks up here with my left friends have left me angry and combative.  Maybe they missed USA history and critical thinking classes at the fancy Universities I know so well.  Shut.  Brothers against brothers.  I'm sad.  Tony
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Offline JeffG

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 10:55:17 AM »
I feel your pain. There is therapy to help you through this. Treatment for this situation would include going to a gun show, having supper at an American Legion post on fried chicken night, or a "breakfast on the farm" event. Avoid large downtown areas, universities, CNN or MSNBC on television, or writings by Karl Marx.  ;)

PS: Father against daughter is not a lot of fun either.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 11:00:34 AM by JeffG »
"Rise, Peter; kill and eat." Acts 10:13

Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2018, 11:01:15 AM »
Brother I have no problem with my beliefs.  Right now I can step out my front door and into a 100yd range.  My land.  I wear my MAGA and NRA hats in town.   But the rift between my friends here are widening.  That's what makes me sad.

Just saw the father / daughter part.  That has to be tough.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 11:07:38 AM by dumbass »
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Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2018, 12:51:03 PM »
Holy cow.  That just got me unfriended a few times.
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 04:12:16 PM »
when you say LEFT' do you mean like commie subversives, hmm
maybe try haveing a conversation .about socialism and the situation in europe.
and how well it has worked out for them, funny how so many who live in these
countries have or want to immigrate here,. and why don't all the liberal socialist
collage professors don't seem to want to actully live in any of these so called paradiases.
what was that casto said(armas por que. i could go on but ,
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 04:18:32 PM by hayshaker »

Offline crashdive123

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 04:35:03 PM »
Tony ----- just remember this........those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

Offline JeffG

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 08:40:45 PM »
"Rise, Peter; kill and eat." Acts 10:13

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 06:20:55 AM »
  It's the same all over unless you live in places like Idaho, Utah, Montana, or rural Alaska,  maybe Texas or Wyoming,  bastions of liberty like Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Maine, have all gone over to the dark side.
  Politics has always been distasteful, then in the Obama era it got ugly,  now since Pres. Trump got elected the progressives have gone from being irritating obstructionists, to scary, to Bat Schitt crazy,  listening to them rant and rave, seeing them follow republican law makers and cabinet members into public places and driving them and their families out of stores, clubs, and eateries is unbelievable in a civil society.
  The meter on the political relief valve is rapidly approaching the red, what happens next, in my opinion  there's not much more room for the radical left in this country to escalate it's vitriol without resorting to violence on some level.
  And what of the conservative side in this issue,  we have our own extreme faction as well, how much more chest poking are they going to take from the left wing crazies before they explode ?
  We have an election cycle coming up soon, primaries are already in play,  I'm predicting that as they heat up we are going to start seeing the left take extraordinary measures including intimidation, rioting and violence at and around polling places.
  And when does it go from intimidating legislators and cabinet members in public places to getting in your face or your children's faces because they know which way you stand politically, will they start vandalizing your vehicles, your homes, or worse ??? ?
       
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 06:57:16 AM »
JeffG in your photo a lot of battlefield pickups for sure.
as for progressives that's just a buzz word for a commie period.
and as in regards to our two parties reps and dems,LOL
there is but the illsion of choice nothing more.
the truth can barely be spoke these days even on the internet
i was once banned from a fourm for speaking the TRUTH.
not even the internet is safe.

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2018, 07:21:37 AM »
The Tony,  we have discussed your NC friends many times.  You know how I feel about them.   😜

Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2018, 08:01:44 AM »
The Tony,  we have discussed your NC friends many times.  You know how I feel about them.   😜

Yeah.  I invited my neighbor down the road (the log cabin) to paddle with us last week.  Not knowing there would be the rabid left along.  My neighbor is a nonapologetic right wing, pro gun, Trump supporter.  He wore his MAGA hat.  Tense moments.  I'm paddling with the same group today.  I'm promising myself to shut my trap if politics comes up
  I won't change any minds anyway.  Maybe I can defuse the tone.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 08:33:10 AM »
I have been through this type of thing with a VERY liberal sister in law from New York State.  At first we had some knock-down-drag-out heated exchanges, but it was plain to see that it was getting us nowhere.  My strategy now, and it drives her to distraction, is to just put on a big grin or even better, laugh out loud at her outrageous postulates.  WAAY more satisfying to me and it REALLY pisses her off! :duel: :lol:
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Offline Orbean

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2018, 12:32:38 PM »
I have seen this too often among my friends on the hard left. The country is becoming more polarized everyday. My politics are middle of the road but what I see from the left is craziness, the hate is overwhelming. Nothing good is going to come from this. I am to the point that if someone continues to try to shove their political beliefs in my face I will no long have anything to do with them. If you can't respect my views then screw you.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2018, 03:14:39 PM »
Folks here know I typically steer clear of the politically-themed threads. This forum is one of my escapes so I try to keep it light but the concerns raised in this thread are relevant to all of us. I'm a registered Republican but I have almost as much disdain for them as I do the Democrats. Oh, and I have voted for a democrat or two along the way so I'm no idealogue. The party pontificating tolerance has become most intolerant and hateful. The party critical of big government votes to expand the government at every opportunity. I really don't like using 'The Right" and "The Left" because that perpetuates the divide but it is difficult to avoid.

For many years in this country, people with opposing political views worked along side each other, worshiped together, and socialized. Your average office, church, golf foursome, or family reunion would likely have members with political and social views spanning the spectrum. The gradual polarization began with politicians as I recall ... conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans all but disappeared.

Then about 10 years ago or so, the polarization seemed to kick into high gear and target the masses. Since then, we have been continually bombarded with emotionally charged news stories that drive wedges between political parties, races, classes, and so on. Every week or two, something new: immigration, bathrooms, gun control, Starbucks, Chick-Fil-A, and on and on and on. It doesn't help matters when most people get all their "news" from 6-second video clips and clickbait headlines... guess that's easier than researching and reading a big, long article with a lot of words and (gulp) opposing views. Like dumbass wrote in the first post, we see educated people with no critical thinking skills (and far scarier - little understanding of history, civics, etc.) so there can be no rational debate or productive discussion, just butt-hurt, chest-beating, name calling.

Immigration has rotated back to the hot-button topic this past couple weeks and is a prime example the emotions, polarization, and name calling. We've all seen video clips of previous presidents and candidates talking about securing our borders and enforcing immigration laws. But now if I oppose open borders then I must be a racist and hate little Hispanic children. Before that ... if I don't hate guns, then I must hate school children or if I don't hate all cops then I must be a Nazi and hate all black people. That, of course, is ridiculous but it's where we are.

I said all that to say this... years ago, I might have said about someone (or someone might have said of me), "He's a nice guy, just don't discuss politics with him." I think like your left friends, dumbass, we will be less likely in the future for someone to overlook our opposing political beliefs and still be friends.

Sorry, I don't have any answers.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart (1862-1931)

Offline OutdoorEnvy

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2018, 03:42:38 PM »
I think we are seeing the repeating full cycle of a world power.  Throughout history almost all major world powers met their end from self destructing from within, not from the outside.  I think it'll only continue to get worse as the media and social media outlets make it all too easy and available to drive that wedge deeper.  I do think it's amusing though that no matter how hard the hateful, intolerant left wing radicals scream about the Trump administration it doesn't seem to be having the after effects they want it to...They are the louder minority voice.  Amounting to a toddler meltdown on the toy isle...
Proverbs 27:17    "As iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend"
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2018, 04:19:16 PM »
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2018, 04:38:05 PM »
Well put OE. 

I refuse to waste time with liberals.  If I find they are then they are not a part of my life. 
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Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2018, 04:56:06 PM »
It simmered down a lot today on the river.  We paddled and poked fun at each other.  One of our group went full on Hawaiin and treated us to an awesome dinner.  No politics.  No name calling
  I'm going to sleep better tonight.  It can be done.
Some even rode in my car with a 9mm in plain sight.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 05:03:40 PM by dumbass »
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2018, 08:37:00 PM »

 Sun Tzu's The Art of War, "Know thy enemy". The gathering of intelligence is not a bad self preservation skill. It keeps you from being surprised and possibly defeated. (At the next election?) If you are familiar with their thought process, you should be able to formulate an effective counter point. Confrontational discussions are not conducive to keeping the element of surprise in your own back pocket. I think Wolfy's got it right with his SIL.
He knows her position but she's not sure about his, just that it doesn't match up with hers. Advantage: Wolfy.


Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2018, 04:45:10 AM »
I read that book years ago.  I should have not engaged in the first place
  I triggered one young lady and it went south from there.  I think we're  ok for now. 

One of the reasons I posted this in this forum is that it directly affects my outdoor sports.  I'm not supposed to solo anymore and it's a bad idea on whitewater anyway.  And everybody that does these things up on this part of the woods is liberal.  So it's  either find a way to get along or quit
  I'm not done yet.  Crashdive made a good point in that it won't matter to the ones that do matter.  I know that's true.  I still got invited along this week.  The little Hawaiin guy still made me some da kine poke. 

I did meet two big fit young men home for the summer from the Citadel.  It was a pleasure to talk with them.
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Offline Orbean

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2018, 06:10:12 AM »
Max, it is interesting that you mentioned critical thinking skills. In high school is was part of junior year English and then I had it again as part of a course in college English. My experience with critical thinking was that it was not so much learning techniques or ways of thinking but it was about using info and possibilities to other options. Here is a good example my brother's friend using when teaching concealed carry classes: You come across an older man standing over a screaming, crying young girl. The older man is pulling down her pants and she is slapping at her stomach and waist area. Your first thought, an emotional one, is to take that perverted bastard down. Well if you had shot him, you would have killed a grandfather helping his granddaughter get a bunch of stinging ants off her after she had sat in an ant pile. Way to go hero.


That  is the problem with reacting with nothing but emotion as your motivating force it is  almost always wrong, and that is what the far left does, they react with emotion. The political leadership know this and uses it to its advantage; it they can get the emotionally immature to rally behind them they stay in power. Hate is an easy and powerful emotion that is easy for those with ill intent to use to their advantage.

I want to be liberal and I guess in some ways I am. Hell in high school I was a self proclaimed communist, mainly to piss off the monks at the boarding school I went to. I am a huge supporter of trade and most labor unions. You want to shut up a pro-illegal immigrant supporter, ask them why they hate the American labor movement and as you proof cite the law of supply and demand. OR ask them why they hate the poor and elderly so much, then mention all those in our own country that are in need.   The easy part in arguing with a liberal is to use their own techniques against them, one of which to answer questions or statements with questions. It really is like arguing with a teenager. I have liberal friends that will not talk politics with me because I piss them off and am willing to give them sources, the ill informed hate sources.

Arm yourself with sources, good ones, not opinions, and be willing to provide them. The weird thing about our political climate is that the far left, in many cases can not cite sources because most of they believe is emotion based and reality based.   

 
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Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 06:25:21 AM »
I'm just not interested in arguing anymore with supposedly educated open minded people when they utterly fail at any logic or using facts.  I was gobsmacked last week when they threw hysterical blabber at me.  No acknowledgement of my side of the debate.  I was "stupid" and an "idiot" amongst other things for not drinking the koolaid.  I'll argue with my vote and support of the organizations that I believe in.
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Offline Orbean

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 06:49:58 AM »
I'm just not interested in arguing anymore with supposedly educated open minded people when they utterly fail at any logic or using facts.  I was gobsmacked last week when they threw hysterical blabber at me.  No acknowledgement of my side of the debate.  I was "stupid" and an "idiot" amongst other things for not drinking the koolaid.  I'll argue with my vote and support of the organizations that I believe in.

I definitely feel you. I was sick of the BS but now feel like I am backed into a corner and am coming out swinging. If someone does not want to be my friend because of my political beliefs then I have no use for them.

I see your point of not ruining a peaceful place, polluting it. If I was in your shoes I too would just avoid the entire discussion. 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 08:32:35 AM »
.....but always with a smug & knowing smile on your face! 8)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
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Offline dumbass

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2018, 09:10:29 AM »
Yeah.  Not much really to discuss on that subject with them now anyway.  I'll try not to trigger any of the snowflakes.  Criminy.  Dad's turning over in his grave with the "sensivity" crap.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2018, 07:43:44 PM »
Glad things are better, dumbass.
"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart (1862-1931)

Offline Sarge

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2018, 07:47:03 PM »
Folks here know I typically steer clear of the politically-themed threads. This forum is one of my escapes so I try to keep it light but the concerns raised in this thread are relevant to all of us. I'm a registered Republican but I have almost as much disdain for them as I do the Democrats. Oh, and I have voted for a democrat or two along the way so I'm no idealogue. The party pontificating tolerance has become most intolerant and hateful. The party critical of big government votes to expand the government at every opportunity. I really don't like using 'The Right" and "The Left" because that perpetuates the divide but it is difficult to avoid.

For many years in this country, people with opposing political views worked along side each other, worshiped together, and socialized. Your average office, church, golf foursome, or family reunion would likely have members with political and social views spanning the spectrum. The gradual polarization began with politicians as I recall ... conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans all but disappeared.

Then about 10 years ago or so, the polarization seemed to kick into high gear and target the masses. Since then, we have been continually bombarded with emotionally charged news stories that drive wedges between political parties, races, classes, and so on. Every week or two, something new: immigration, bathrooms, gun control, Starbucks, Chick-Fil-A, and on and on and on. It doesn't help matters when most people get all their "news" from 6-second video clips and clickbait headlines... guess that's easier than researching and reading a big, long article with a lot of words and (gulp) opposing views. Like dumbass wrote in the first post, we see educated people with no critical thinking skills (and far scarier - little understanding of history, civics, etc.) so there can be no rational debate or productive discussion, just butt-hurt, chest-beating, name calling.

Immigration has rotated back to the hot-button topic this past couple weeks and is a prime example the emotions, polarization, and name calling. We've all seen video clips of previous presidents and candidates talking about securing our borders and enforcing immigration laws. But now if I oppose open borders then I must be a racist and hate little Hispanic children. Before that ... if I don't hate guns, then I must hate school children or if I don't hate all cops then I must be a Nazi and hate all black people. That, of course, is ridiculous but it's where we are.

I said all that to say this... years ago, I might have said about someone (or someone might have said of me), "He's a nice guy, just don't discuss politics with him." I think like your left friends, dumbass, we will be less likely in the future for someone to overlook our opposing political beliefs and still be friends.

Sorry, I don't have any answers.

Saw this today....

"The man with the knapsack is never lost." Horace Kephart (1862-1931)

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2018, 03:12:48 AM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2018, 11:45:12 AM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

I'm not sure this particular thread is so much about politics as it is about comparing how we deal with political discussions around the campfire. We would all like to spend time in the woods with like minded people but at the end of the day we have to share our spaces with people of differing opinions. Some of us would refuse to associate with folks that don't agree with us, others tolerate them---barely. I myself am diametrically opposed to what my daughter thinks and believes. I'm not about to debate her and change her mind. She's an adult. I will not kick her out of the campfire circle. I will not alienate her. With her I need to use Rodney Kings' famous line: "Can't we all just get along?"

If some of us can drop kick everyone we disagree with into the brush, more power to them. But it doesn't work for me. A couple good kicks and I'd be the only one at the campfire. :D

Or--- If it's not my campfire, I would be the one rolling around in the brush with a bruised butt. :doh:

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 01:08:32 PM »
This thread isn't about politics in the usual sense.  I like it because it addressed things all of us encounter in our lives. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2018, 05:07:59 AM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

I'm not sure this particular thread is so much about politics as it is about comparing how we deal with political discussions around the campfire. We would all like to spend time in the woods with like minded people but at the end of the day we have to share our spaces with people of differing opinions. Some of us would refuse to associate with folks that don't agree with us, others tolerate them---barely. I myself am diametrically opposed to what my daughter thinks and believes. I'm not about to debate her and change her mind. She's an adult. I will not kick her out of the campfire circle. I will not alienate her. With her I need to use Rodney Kings' famous line: "Can't we all just get along?"

If some of us can drop kick everyone we disagree with into the brush, more power to them. But it doesn't work for me. A couple good kicks and I'd be the only one at the campfire. :D

Or--- If it's not my campfire, I would be the one rolling around in the brush with a bruised butt. :doh:

  Best post in this whole thread so far,  thanks.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2018, 05:57:32 AM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

  Personally, and I'm speaking from the conservative side of the aisle,  I think the point is quite clear,  people on the 'right' side of the issues that affect their lives for a long time have been and are still being told to sit down, shut up, and don't exercise your First amendment rights to have a different opinion, and especially don't make waves by airing those opinions in public.
  Meanwhile, the minions of the left are marching, rioting, stalking public officials and their families and inflicting ridicule and slurs on them and driving them away from anywhere the public gathers, and while all this is happening the left's lame stream media distorts facts and in some instances lies outright in order to create political change at any cost, oh, but that's ok, being progressives allows them to act like bullies, lie, cheat, and do what ever they feel has to be done to obstruct the sitting administration.
  So, people who are fed up with the obstructionist in this current political climate are openly discussing their feelings and their fears, and in most cases they are doing it in a civil manner,  about the only time it turns ugly is when the opposing side doesn't like to hear the free exchange of political ideas and starts shouting sit down, shut up, you can't talk about that stuff here,  well if not here, Where ?   
  With the country being split right down the middle politically and neither side being able to agree on any common ground is it any wonder why just about everything being discussed eventually turns into political debate ?
  I openly don't care what anyone's political ideologies are, nor do I care if they want to express them or debate them in public or on a forum like this one, mostly because I believe in the Constitution and all of it's protections,  but secondly I believe in the power of my ability to not join in the discussion or debate if I choose not to for what ever reason,  but would not attempt to deprive anyone else of their Right to Free Political Speech,  just saying.
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Offline Pb

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2018, 03:57:05 PM »
  It's the same all over unless you live in places like Idaho, Utah, Montana, or rural Alaska,  maybe Texas or Wyoming,  bastions of liberty like Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Maine, have all gone over to the dark side.
  Politics has always been distasteful, then in the Obama era it got ugly,  now since Pres. Trump got elected the progressives have gone from being irritating obstructionists, to scary, to Bat Schitt crazy,  listening to them rant and rave, seeing them follow republican law makers and cabinet members into public places and driving them and their families out of stores, clubs, and eateries is unbelievable in a civil society.
  The meter on the political relief valve is rapidly approaching the red, what happens next, in my opinion  there's not much more room for the radical left in this country to escalate it's vitriol without resorting to violence on some level.
  And what of the conservative side in this issue,  we have our own extreme faction as well, how much more chest poking are they going to take from the left wing crazies before they explode ?
  We have an election cycle coming up soon, primaries are already in play,  I'm predicting that as they heat up we are going to start seeing the left take extraordinary measures including intimidation, rioting and violence at and around polling places.
  And when does it go from intimidating legislators and cabinet members in public places to getting in your face or your children's faces because they know which way you stand politically, will they start vandalizing your vehicles, your homes, or worse ??? ?
       
it is unfortunate that Maine is now commonly called Massachusetts north or other such things.our represenitives are pathetic and weak and this country will soon be like the great Briton we left not a long time ago!what to do?

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2018, 07:11:47 AM »
  It's the same all over unless you live in places like Idaho, Utah, Montana, or rural Alaska,  maybe Texas or Wyoming,  bastions of liberty like Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Maine, have all gone over to the dark side.
  Politics has always been distasteful, then in the Obama era it got ugly,  now since Pres. Trump got elected the progressives have gone from being irritating obstructionists, to scary, to Bat Schitt crazy,  listening to them rant and rave, seeing them follow republican law makers and cabinet members into public places and driving them and their families out of stores, clubs, and eateries is unbelievable in a civil society.
  The meter on the political relief valve is rapidly approaching the red, what happens next, in my opinion  there's not much more room for the radical left in this country to escalate it's vitriol without resorting to violence on some level.
  And what of the conservative side in this issue,  we have our own extreme faction as well, how much more chest poking are they going to take from the left wing crazies before they explode ?
  We have an election cycle coming up soon, primaries are already in play,  I'm predicting that as they heat up we are going to start seeing the left take extraordinary measures including intimidation, rioting and violence at and around polling places.
  And when does it go from intimidating legislators and cabinet members in public places to getting in your face or your children's faces because they know which way you stand politically, will they start vandalizing your vehicles, your homes, or worse ??? ?
       
it is unfortunate that Maine is now commonly called Massachusetts north or other such things.our represenitives are pathetic and weak and this country will soon be like the great Briton we left not a long time ago!what to do?

  It's unfortunate for sure, but quite understandable, with every one out of two people in this country being liberal/progressive or as of late confirmed socialist it's inevitable that this "melting pot" we call home is about to have it's pressure relief valve pop.
  We can all have different ideas about when, where, and how this divide came about,  whether it was a societal anomaly or a well organized long term plan that started with Marx, Lenin, and Mau and issued forward through our modern universities and socialized broadcast media, it no longer matters,  what does is that people on either side of the political spectrum either don't know how to dial it back to a more reasonable time,  or have an agenda and don't want it to stop.
  Not so very long ago in this country we could brag that what separated the USA from most of the rest of the world was our continuous history of civil transfer of political power, we held peaceful elections, held civil debates, and when the votes were counted, the winners sorted out, and the results yesterdays news,  we all supported whatever was best for our country,  not what was best for any one political ideology.
  I fear we've gone past the point where we can come together as a people united, we have lost our ability to be civil,  lost our love and support of our founding values, have no patients for the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of our neighbors,  our kids shut out any speakers that have a conservative political message,  they riot at any opportunity to make a point rather than use civil debate,  they obstruct and intimidate voters who look like they may be voting for the "other side" at the polls.
  Like most folks I talk to, I don't know how this discourse will end,  what I do believe is that it can't continue as it is, and it certainly can't escalate without more and increasing violence that would destroy this country as we know it and turn it into just one more third world dependent schit hole, pardon my choice of words.
   
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Offline OutdoorEnvy

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2018, 10:27:42 AM »
Yeah I really am baffled by what a liberals' agenda end result really is?  It's like a dog chasing a car.  What are they going to do if they catch it?

I think they'll ultimately press their luck too far since they are the louder voice.  They'll go too far at some point and poke the conservative sleeping grizzly bear one too many times.  Only way that doesn't happen is if conservatives keep voting and not be intimidated by the poles. 

For as much the racial divide is being pushed.  People forget it was conservatives and the Republican party that ended slavery. 

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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2018, 04:55:39 PM »
Yeah I really am baffled by what a liberals' agenda end result really is?  It's like a dog chasing a car.  What are they going to do if they catch it?

I think they'll ultimately press their luck too far since they are the louder voice.  They'll go too far at some point and poke the conservative sleeping grizzly bear one too many times.  Only way that doesn't happen is if conservatives keep voting and not be intimidated by the poles. 

For as much the racial divide is being pushed.  People forget it was conservatives and the Republican party that ended slavery.

 I couldn't agree more,  every piece of legislation since the civil war that gave minorities in this country more freedoms and more equality was made by republicans, every piece of legislation that was passed that kept them poor and oppressed was instituted by democrats who are convinced that the only way to keep their votes is to insure that the minorities continue to see themselves as victims or 400 years of oppression by whites and the wealthy.
 I also think that you are right about the radical wing of the democrat party being on the fast tract to destroying their whole party,  there's talk going on right now from main stream democrats about leaving the party and starting a new party and leaving the progressive in the dust,  personally I think unless there are radical changes made in college professors and in the left media they'll have a tough row to hoe, but I also think they'd get a lot of support from the democrat rank and file. 
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Offline Unknown

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2018, 10:56:09 PM »
For me it is not so baffling to discern the end game of the left so much as it is to figure the way forward for "conservatives" ( I used quotes because that is really just a code word, right.)

I understand the religion and the guns, but why not environment and ecology? There is the obvious reason - that of the Capitalist wanting no impediments to low costs in their endeavors, regardless of costs borne by non- shareholders.
 
Granted, as it comes from the Left there is some over- reaching and some misunderstanding of stewardship management principles, nevertheless the love for the Land, Forest, and wild places( like actually feeling at home there) not just in the abstract; is clearly a matter to be handled properly by the Right.

The Left has now taken over the pro War stance in contradiction to decades past. For the Rightto restart a promotion of a true sort f environmentalism/ ecology would make for a great trade. The environmental costs of elevating all these third world immigrants to first world status has not been considered or calculated on the Left.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2018, 06:40:46 AM »
For me it is not so baffling to discern the end game of the left so much as it is to figure the way forward for "conservatives" ( I used quotes because that is really just a code word, right.)

I understand the religion and the guns, but why not environment and ecology? There is the obvious reason - that of the Capitalist wanting no impediments to low costs in their endeavors, regardless of costs borne by non- shareholders.
 
Granted, as it comes from the Left there is some over- reaching and some misunderstanding of stewardship management principles, nevertheless the love for the Land, Forest, and wild places( like actually feeling at home there) not just in the abstract; is clearly a matter to be handled properly by the Right.

The Left has now taken over the pro War stance in contradiction to decades past. For the Rightto restart a promotion of a true sort f environmentalism/ ecology would make for a great trade. The environmental costs of elevating all these third world immigrants to first world status has not been considered or calculated on the Left.

 While your post sounds reasonable on it's face,  where would one start here to address the problems of the environment/ecology and have it lift the economic status of third world immigrants ( I assume you mean those coming into our country who are poorly educated and basically unskilled as far as managing in a first world labor force).
  The CIA, NASA, and the Military working jointly have been trying for years to control the environment, while on the other side of the pond so have the European power structure, and all they have succeeded to accomplish was spend a great deal of other peoples money,  waste an ungodly amount of time and other resources, seeded the clouds, polluted the air, kill off some vegetation, and sicken some people and animal life.
  Not for nothin', but if you understood the religion part you'd understand that man in all his arrogance should not screw with mother nature,  she works at the pleasure of the Big Guy upstairs, the weather is His domain.
  I suppose changes can be made that would impact the environment and in doing so aid ecology,  solar, wind, electric cars, trucks, and public transportation, better battery technology, all of these would and probably will replace fossil fuel energy in the future,  but just not in our lifetime,  it's economically not possible,  until those sources of energy can compete with coal, oil, and gas, and made affordable for common people to access and use, it's not practical.
  Again, In my opinion,  those who suggest that the right would be better off politically if they adopted some of the goals championed by the left are forgetting the obvious, which is, their goals are not founded in reality, they simply do not work in practical application, most are all dreams and loose credibility when logic is applied.

  A challenge,  name me one thing that the left is responsible for that has actually benefited this country and it's citizens (all it's citizens) in any lasting and meaningful way,  I can think of a laundry list full of what they've done to harm this country throughout our American history,  but not one scribble on the pro side of the page.
  As far as immigrants are concerned you have me puzzled,  outside of the fact that most don't have any marketable skills or education that would allow them to get good paying jobs, most don't even speak our language, and most are here illegally,  what would we be trading off by adopting the goals of the left as far as immigrants go.
  I'm not a progressive and I don't have a clue how they reason,  but from what I've come to understand they want no borders/free access to any and all immigrants,  they want to do away with the Border Patrol and ICE, they have expressed the notion that US citizenship is outdated, we are all citizens of the world and totally responsible to one another,  it gets deeper, but I've gone on long enough.
  The left ie Democrats in this country used to be simple Americans that held different ideas involving the more emotional side of politics,  but both sides republican and democrat basically wanted the same things for their country and their families,  I think I know when that changed, but that's another topic for another time.
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Offline Unknown

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2018, 11:15:12 AM »
I did not suggest any increase in living standard or economic status for third worlders immigrating to US, Canada, EU. Quite the opposite. By denying access and obliging current residents to return to their respective homelands the great  environmental burden of lifting those immigrants to first world living standards would be relieved.

I disagree, somewhat, on what could be viable and/or affordable in the various aspects you brought up. It is, imho, simply a matter of will. Ultimately we have different goals, I think. You seem to be primarily concerned with preserving a particular type of Government. My concern is preserving a particular type of People.
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Offline duxdawg

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2018, 12:56:42 PM »
Well said gentlemen. Y'all covered it well. Am enjoying the thread.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2018, 06:48:13 PM »
I did not suggest any increase in living standard or economic status for third worlders immigrating to US, Canada, EU. Quite the opposite. By denying access and obliging current residents to return to their respective homelands the great  environmental burden of lifting those immigrants to first world living standards would be relieved.

I disagree, somewhat, on what could be viable and/or affordable in the various aspects you brought up. It is, imho, simply a matter of will. Ultimately we have different goals, I think. You seem to be primarily concerned with preserving a particular type of Government. My concern is preserving a particular type of People.

 I'm primarily interested in preserving the Constitutional representative republic that the founders gave us, the rule of law, and those institutions that made it possible for our countrymen to achieve the standard of living that they have,  I believe in equal opportunity without having to guarantee equal outcome using social engineering through the force of law.
 That you disagree with me is not unexpected or is it new,  but I'll remind you that I am a realist, I don't argue what could be but rather what is,  and the reality is that green energy is in it's infancy, it needs more advances in technology to make it viable,  Wind turbine generators cost more to build and install than they can provide in electricity in their life time,  Solar can't do it all without a huge outlay of money for the infrastructure it would take to supply the average home with energy, heat/air conditioning, and for service and repair when compared to coal fired utilities and natural gas and home heating fuel.
When it comes to energy affordability Fossil fuels still have the advantages over green energy,  the same hold true for electric automobiles,  the most expensive (almost twice as much as a comparable combustion engine car) battery driven cars have a range of about 200 miles before needing to be recharged under regular driving conditions, and they are charged with energy provided by coal fired plants.
To the average family today it's much more affordable to build a conventional home, be hooked up to public utilities, and heat/air condition their homes with natural gas or home heating oil,  and drive a car or light duty truck powered by a gasoline powered engine,  that's the reality.
Without a doubt that will change at some time in the future as the technology improves, but that time is not now.   
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2018, 11:47:22 PM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

"Well" (Trying to imitate Ronald Regan's drawl) "After the last dozen or so posts, Ah'm beginning to think Phaedrus had a point that wasn't so obvious before." :fire1: :coffee:

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2018, 05:51:39 AM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?

"Well" (Trying to imitate Ronald Regan's drawl) "After the last dozen or so posts, Ah'm beginning to think Phaedrus had a point that wasn't so obvious before." :fire1: :coffee:

  LOL,  Phaedrus I believe did have a point though subtle as it was made,  I think his point was that nobody likes to read statements that contradict those beliefs that they hold dear for what ever reason, some folks have thicker skin and can just brush them off while others get annoyed to the point of trying to change the discussion or shut it down completely.
  Personally, I don't mind a little debate, and I am interested in differing views on most subjects including current events, especially those that have an impact on my life,  but I do understand that we are all individuals that have strong opinions about many subjects and that we don't always agree,  my pet peeve when it comes to posts that annoy the hell out of me are those that beg the "What" questions like "What's the best bear gun to buy",  "What's the best kind of knife for bushcrafting",  "What's the best survival gun to have",  and my most annoying "What did you have for supper last night".
  I don't think it's the questions themselves as much as the vast number of times they pop up,  surely there must be more interesting topics to discuss than what a person you have never actually met had for supper last night ?
  Really, "what should I carry for protection in bear country",  how about a can of bear spray and a huge roll of TP ???
 Anyhow, what has worked best for me when it comes to annoying threads or when discussions turn into topics that I find distasteful or uninteresting is I simply ignore them and move on to another thread or discussion that does interest me,  I really don't agree with P/C censorship, while there are subjects that don't belong in the public forum I don't think our First amendment right to free political speech should be one of them.   
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2018, 10:43:07 AM »
 Moe, you forgot the :soap:.

I agree with your assessment but ya gotta admit to a certain curiosity about someone's diet if he's passing rainbows and lollypops. :banana:

Quote "Anyhow, what has worked best for me when it comes to annoying threads or when discussions turn into topics that I find distasteful or uninteresting is I simply ignore them and move on to another thread or discussion that does interest me," Unquote. The trouble with that is those that take the old Snagglepuss route. "Exit, stage left!" never to be heard from again.

A lot of us here have the benefit of years of experience, and have certain curmudgeonly characteristics accrued. Most of which occurred before the advent of the keyboard and screen. The younger set, asking what we deem to be silly questions may be from a 15 year old just trying to be part of the conversation but not knowing how to join in. So, they try to get someone to acknowledge them by asking seemingly "safe" questions.

You gotta admit, B&B is, for the most part, a pretty tolerant and welcoming place with deep philosophical discussions kept at a minimum. I can see why the "Bear gun" and "Bushcrafting knife" questions pop up. Those without the years of life experiences don't feel like they will get their poo jumped in with both feet. They haven't learned the sit back and observe skills yet. It's to easy to jump on the keyboard and ask those questions just to be part of the conversation.

Eventually they learn there are different solutions for different locations and scenarios. But they need to be lead along and included. Or we'll end up as grumpy old men wondering why no one wants to talk with us.

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2018, 10:56:21 AM »
  Really, "what should I carry for protection in bear country",  how about a can of bear spray and a huge roll of TP ???

So, yesterday I'm in a Cabelas and I see these "Bear Bells" in a bag made of nylon netting. I'm thinking "What the heck is that for? Make it harder for the bear to swallow?" :lol: :lol:

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2018, 02:44:13 PM »
  Really, "what should I carry for protection in bear country",  how about a can of bear spray and a huge roll of TP ???

So, yesterday I'm in a Cabelas and I see these "Bear Bells" in a bag made of nylon netting. I'm thinking "What the heck is that for? Make it harder for the bear to swallow?" :lol: :lol:

  Now that's funny right there.  LOL
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2018, 02:55:27 PM »
Moe, you forgot the :soap:.

I agree with your assessment but ya gotta admit to a certain curiosity about someone's diet if he's passing rainbows and lollypops. :banana:

Quote "Anyhow, what has worked best for me when it comes to annoying threads or when discussions turn into topics that I find distasteful or uninteresting is I simply ignore them and move on to another thread or discussion that does interest me," Unquote. The trouble with that is those that take the old Snagglepuss route. "Exit, stage left!" never to be heard from again.

A lot of us here have the benefit of years of experience, and have certain curmudgeonly characteristics accrued. Most of which occurred before the advent of the keyboard and screen. The younger set, asking what we deem to be silly questions may be from a 15 year old just trying to be part of the conversation but not knowing how to join in. So, they try to get someone to acknowledge them by asking seemingly "safe" questions.

You gotta admit, B&B is, for the most part, a pretty tolerant and welcoming place with deep philosophical discussions kept at a minimum. I can see why the "Bear gun" and "Bushcrafting knife" questions pop up. Those without the years of life experiences don't feel like they will get their poo jumped in with both feet. They haven't learned the sit back and observe skills yet. It's to easy to jump on the keyboard and ask those questions just to be part of the conversation.

Eventually they learn there are different solutions for different locations and scenarios. But they need to be lead along and included. Or we'll end up as grumpy old men wondering why no one wants to talk with us.

  Be patient with me, I'm only 75 yrs. young and still learning.   
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2018, 10:33:05 PM »
Did the no - politics  rules get 86'd recently?  I see complaints that no one is visiting the site anymore but then we get these verbal - diarrhea political threads, and I think those two points are related. Bad enough the drumbeat of ceaseless negatively on the TV but some insist on tracking it in here on their boots. What is the point of it?
To address the thought of "ceaseless negativity", there is an alternative.
And this post is apolitical. It concerns (as Unk mentioned) ALL the people.
Is anyone even vaguely aware of "The Great Awakening", or "The Storm"?  Does anyone even know what the "Q-Anon" dialogue is all about? How about the "Walk Away" campaign?
People are waking up, and it's bipartisan.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2018, 04:55:50 PM »
Boy....THAT was a thread-killer. Sorry...
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Offline Unknown

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Re: Sorry. Can't find the super secret place
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2018, 05:54:23 PM »
You know how much I hate re-reading my own posts :lol:
    But if I did in fact say: All the people

Perhaps you could provide a bit of snippet to quote that and I shall provide some definitions to explain my usage of the phrase. ALL, hard to imagine really. Some, I assume, are good people nevertheless If the greatest bulk of them where to sod their bottoms and flip off into the air; I shall not be bothered in the least
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