Author Topic: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE  (Read 306 times)

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Offline wolfy

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I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« on: February 04, 2019, 10:14:05 AM »
......but this came up in my 'news' this morning and I thought it clarified the official Scouts BSA position on knife carry.

https://survivalcommonsense.com/why-dont-all-boy-scouts-carry-and-use-fixed-blade-knives/
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 11:18:02 AM »
While their official position is pro knife they apparently don't have the system in place to override a scout leaders edicts on knife use.  Then you have parents who with their concern for their baby and the nasty sheath knives. 

The Scouts have a damned if you do damned if you don't situation on their hands.  I suppose some parents might pull a kid if they allowed sheath knives and some might pull a kid if they didn't.

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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 04:51:02 PM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2019, 05:05:35 PM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
I think you need to reread that link, Spyder.....they ARE allowed to carry a folder or non-folder if they are in possession of the Totin' Chip which indicates that they have been instructed in safe use of the tool and are proficient in its use.  If unsafe use is observed, one of the corners are removed from the chip.  When four of the corners are clipped, the Scout loses the right to carry the knife. :-[

It's only gonna get worse. >:(
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Offline Spyder1958

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 05:10:33 PM »
Yea I read all that, but I was refering to the groups that would not let their pack carry. why be a scout then.
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 05:13:15 PM »
Yeah, I agree.....thankfull y we are not there yet, in our neck o' the woods. :thumbsup:
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 07:43:08 PM »
Yea I read all that, but I was refering to the groups that would not let their pack carry. why be a scout then.

I suppose they have some laws to contend with in some of the more oppressive states.

Offline Unknown

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 10:52:21 PM »
In the days of my ancestors we had a thing called culture. They all needed knives, so used knives and were quick to teach the newest ones of us the same, on account of our inborn curiosity, desire to excel, and to achieve status. It was a right of passage to be allowed to use the knife; then given a knife( which means unsupervised) Trusted to have a knife... I might no longer be looked over by my mother (supervised) in the kitchen, but instead my older sibling, cousin- a non- adult teen was given charge.( still a hierarchy. Yet. Less separation. I see myself moving toward independence even a leadership of my own)

We don't have a whole bunch of those independent, striving to excel adults anymore. So their kids get fatter and dumber. The French invented the mandolin for calibrated even slices of multiple veg. The Slap Chop and food processors ( I know You got one and You know who you are :shocked: ) Crinkle cut and curly fries >:( give me a break.

Was Scouting all inclusive in the beginning or was it a bit more exclusive? It was obstinately British. Nearly paramilitary; identifying potential for literal Scouts for the Queens Empire. I would not be upset if we had such haughty goals today. Ok. I will answer.
Who is this "we"

It is me, my ancestors, and those who agree. Who are Gurkhas? There are twist and turns based on your fav. Historiographer. I don't know... maybe they were race-traitors deciding to fight on the winning side. Brave and bad-ass batch of soldiers or maybe even warriors. Some of y'all were soldiers and that is okay. The words are not synonymous, so do t be confused. You are one or the other, and wel, mostly we have soldiers
   It's in the first four letters :shrug: it's a word you can look up. Better in an old dictionary than on line

Scouts and knives. Here is an Idea. You be Baden. The old Scouts suck. You don't need the Org. What would you build upon anew? We are all Equal. There is only one Human Race.
  Or what?

SEE?
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 08:54:48 AM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
I think you need to reread that link, Spyder.....they ARE allowed to carry a folder or non-folder if they are in possession of the Totin' Chip which indicates that they have been instructed in safe use of the tool and are proficient in its use.  If unsafe use is observed, one of the corners are removed from the chip.  When four of the corners are clipped, the Scout loses the right to carry the knife. :-[

It's only gonna get worse. >:(

 I get your point Craig, and appreciate your posting the article, I've been away from Scouting for a lot of years, so my opinions are based on the time I was a Scout and later when my kids were in Scouting and I served on the council.
 I think my problem stems from a perceived lack of standards within the organization,  I also understand that in some areas autonomy within councils and local troops is almost a must, some state laws differ greatly from one another when it comes to items such as the carrying of knives, my troop when I was a Scout had a rifle team that used air rifles and competed with other area troops, some states today have laws that prevent a kid under the age of eighteen to even handle a firearm.
 All that aside, I think that National has dropped the ball when it comes to enforcing ridged standards within the organization which has lead to confusion about what's allowed and what's not, and has probably lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that some of us about just where Scouting stands on some issues and about the changes made or proposed which may color or individual opinions.
 If National hasn't changed it's stance on knives for example and a scout is allowed to carry a folder or fixed blade of his/her choice providing they have a chip, what happens at regional events when a hosting troop or one of the guest troops shows up carrying fixed blade belt knives, would they be allowed to carry them through the even or would they be forced to put them away out of sight or worse, have to surrender them to the hosting troop until the event is over ?
 Wouldn't it be better if National's standard was that qualified Scouts are allowed to carry knives of their own choice fixed or folding if they so choose, that way a chip carrying scout in uniform could carry a knife without worry that someone is going to complain, and those who object or are offended by the sight of a kid with a knife can just go find themselves a safe area to hide in ?
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 09:10:03 AM »
Yea I read all that, but I was refering to the groups that would not let their pack carry. why be a scout then.

I suppose they have some laws to contend with in some of the more oppressive states.

Good point and it is true that there are some States with restrictions on blades over a certain length, certain types of knives, and so forth.  A Scout leader would have to have legal advice on what is legal in their area.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 03:24:23 PM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
I think you need to reread that link, Spyder.....they ARE allowed to carry a folder or non-folder if they are in possession of the Totin' Chip which indicates that they have been instructed in safe use of the tool and are proficient in its use.  If unsafe use is observed, one of the corners are removed from the chip.  When four of the corners are clipped, the Scout loses the right to carry the knife. :-[

It's only gonna get worse. >:(

 I get your point Craig, and appreciate your posting the article, I've been away from Scouting for a lot of years, so my opinions are based on the time I was a Scout and later when my kids were in Scouting and I served on the council.
 I think my problem stems from a perceived lack of standards within the organization,  I also understand that in some areas autonomy within councils and local troops is almost a must, some state laws differ greatly from one another when it comes to items such as the carrying of knives, my troop when I was a Scout had a rifle team that used air rifles and competed with other area troops, some states today have laws that prevent a kid under the age of eighteen to even handle a firearm.
 All that aside, I think that National has dropped the ball when it comes to enforcing ridged standards within the organization which has lead to confusion about what's allowed and what's not, and has probably lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that some of us about just where Scouting stands on some issues and about the changes made or proposed which may color or individual opinions.
 If National hasn't changed it's stance on knives for example and a scout is allowed to carry a folder or fixed blade of his/her choice providing they have a chip, what happens at regional events when a hosting troop or one of the guest troops shows up carrying fixed blade belt knives, would they be allowed to carry them through the even or would they be forced to put them away out of sight or worse, have to surrender them to the hosting troop until the event is over ?
 Wouldn't it be better if National's standard was that qualified Scouts are allowed to carry knives of their own choice fixed or folding if they so choose, that way a chip carrying scout in uniform could carry a knife without worry that someone is going to complain, and those who object or are offended by the sight of a kid with a knife can just go find themselves a safe area to hide in ?

That's a good point, and I can see where that might be a problem.....but,  I think we both know what the outcome would be if, where & when that situation arises. >:( >:(
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Offline Unknown

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 09:07:12 PM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
I think you need to reread that link, Spyder.....they ARE allowed to carry a folder or non-folder if they are in possession of the Totin' Chip which indicates that they have been instructed in safe use of the tool and are proficient in its use.  If unsafe use is observed, one of the corners are removed from the chip.  When four of the corners are clipped, the Scout loses the right to carry the knife. :-[

It's only gonna get worse. >:(

TheStandard is: Scouting is compromised. Just like the State you live in. Just like other of half opinions you endorse. You have Lib Boomer Opinion . A Universalist. just admit it and move on :shrug:
   It's not a big deal when you consider the limits of human lifespan
 I get your point Craig, and appreciate your posting the article, I've been away from Scouting for a lot of years, so my opinions are based on the time I was a Scout and later when my kids were in Scouting and I served on the council.
 I think my problem stems from a perceived lack of standards within the organization,  I also understand that in some areas autonomy within councils and local troops is almost a must, some state laws differ greatly from one another when it comes to items such as the carrying of knives, my troop when I was a Scout had a rifle team that used air rifles and competed with other area troops, some states today have laws that prevent a kid under the age of eighteen to even handle a firearm.
 All that aside, I think that National has dropped the ball when it comes to enforcing ridged standards within the organization which has lead to confusion about what's allowed and what's not, and has probably lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that some of us about just where Scouting stands on some issues and about the changes made or proposed which may color or individual opinions.
 If National hasn't changed it's stance on knives for example and a scout is allowed to carry a folder or fixed blade of his/her choice providing they have a chip, what happens at regional events when a hosting troop or one of the guest troops shows up carrying fixed blade belt knives, would they be allowed to carry them through the even or would they be forced to put them away out of sight or worse, have to surrender them to the hosting troop until the event is over ?
 Wouldn't it be better if National's standard was that qualified Scouts are allowed to carry knives of their own choice fixed or folding if they so choose, that way a chip carrying scout in uniform could carry a knife without worry that someone is going to complain, and those who object or are offended by the sight of a kid with a knife can just go find themselves a safe area to hide in ?
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 06:31:55 AM »
Don't understand not being allowed to carry a fixed blade and being a scout, after passing the required training.
But I liked the comment ( Mora 840 Companion as the best beginner knife ) for all the  merit badge's they need a knife for how can you not carry a knife.
I think you need to reread that link, Spyder.....they ARE allowed to carry a folder or non-folder if they are in possession of the Totin' Chip which indicates that they have been instructed in safe use of the tool and are proficient in its use.  If unsafe use is observed, one of the corners are removed from the chip.  When four of the corners are clipped, the Scout loses the right to carry the knife. :-[

It's only gonna get worse. >:(

TheStandard is: Scouting is compromised. Just like the State you live in. Just like other of half opinions you endorse. You have Lib Boomer Opinion . A Universalist. just admit it and move on :shrug:
   It's not a big deal when you consider the limits of human lifespan
 I get your point Craig, and appreciate your posting the article, I've been away from Scouting for a lot of years, so my opinions are based on the time I was a Scout and later when my kids were in Scouting and I served on the council.
 I think my problem stems from a perceived lack of standards within the organization,  I also understand that in some areas autonomy within councils and local troops is almost a must, some state laws differ greatly from one another when it comes to items such as the carrying of knives, my troop when I was a Scout had a rifle team that used air rifles and competed with other area troops, some states today have laws that prevent a kid under the age of eighteen to even handle a firearm.
 All that aside, I think that National has dropped the ball when it comes to enforcing ridged standards within the organization which has lead to confusion about what's allowed and what's not, and has probably lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that some of us about just where Scouting stands on some issues and about the changes made or proposed which may color or individual opinions.
 If National hasn't changed it's stance on knives for example and a scout is allowed to carry a folder or fixed blade of his/her choice providing they have a chip, what happens at regional events when a hosting troop or one of the guest troops shows up carrying fixed blade belt knives, would they be allowed to carry them through the even or would they be forced to put them away out of sight or worse, have to surrender them to the hosting troop until the event is over ?
 Wouldn't it be better if National's standard was that qualified Scouts are allowed to carry knives of their own choice fixed or folding if they so choose, that way a chip carrying scout in uniform could carry a knife without worry that someone is going to complain, and those who object or are offended by the sight of a kid with a knife can just go find themselves a safe area to hide in ?

 Are you off your meds again ?
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 07:47:45 AM »
Several generations of millennial parents have gutted the BSA.  They are, essentially useless with regards to imparting woods skills.  They are adept at social engineering though.

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 09:25:54 AM »
Several generations of millennial parents have gutted the BSA.  They are, essentially useless with regards to imparting woods skills.  They are adept at social engineering though.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 04:13:40 PM »
I think there's a huge chasm between rural and metropolitan troops as far as rules and regulations go.  There has never been a problem with knife-carry in any of the NEBRASKA councils.........th at I am aware of. :shrug:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 09:36:52 PM »
I think there's a huge chasm between rural and metropolitan troops as far as rules and regulations go.  There has never been a problem with knife-carry in any of the NEBRASKA councils.........th at I am aware of. :shrug:


I'm compelled to interject and reiterate that location (and the associated social climate) makes all the difference.
The local high school here in Montana allowed and encouraged students to design, forge and finish their own hunting knives in the metal shop (welding class).
Try running a wood/metal class like that in an L.A. high school! :shocked:

When I eldest son wanted to join the Scouts, he was Cub Scout age. The other packs were filled, so I ended up "volunteering" to be a Cub Master.  The other leaders decided they were going to help me out by giving me the "surplus" Scouts from their packs.  That meant the ones who didn't march to their drums.

It turned out I ended up with 4 members to my "pack": My son, his buddy who didn't want to join unless he could be in my son's pack, one young fella with A.D.D., and an unknown boy who was coming from the "off-grid" community in the mysterious country known as "The West Kootenai".

Our newest member missed the 1st two meeting due to transportation problems, but when he finally showed up, he was wearing his Scout vest over the deer-skin shirt his mother had tanned and sewn for him, homemade moccasins, and a stag handled sheath knife his dad had made for him.  Okay.... Like >Cub Scouts< is going to teach this guy anything about woodlore???

I had to get special permission to tailor my curriculum to my boys.  Instead of basket weaving and bird watching, we spent our time learning outdoor cooking skills over my fire pit with flint-n-steel fires. Woodcarving and improvising utensils.  Our field trips were map reading and orienteering.  My boys were a little lite on "proscribed" merit badges, but they had fun and actually came away with a few useful skills. Point being, I never would have had the latitude to run things this way if we didn't live in "boondocks Montana".
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Offline wolfy

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Re: I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2019, 09:17:26 AM »
So........it seems there are big similarities among 'boondock' Troops in this country, no matter which state they are from.  For instance, in our local Troop, my old Scoutmaster seldom, if ever attended the 'mandatory' district planning and 'training' meetings 8)......even while under duress from the District Cheeses that hand down all those ridiculous edicts that they are so famous for.   This saved our Troop from the insidious PC rules that were beginning to be handed down by the powers-that-be......even back in MY day as a young Scout.  When it was my time to adjust protocols as a Scoutmaster, I followed his example.  Consequently, the boys in our Troop developed a pride & an 'espirit de corps' that they were proud of because they considered themselves to be the 'mavericks' in our District.  Since actions speak louder than words, our Troop usually always brought home the top honors in the skills competitions at the District Camporees.....in other words, it worked, so we never 'fixed' it. :coffee:
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