Author Topic: Getting and staying sharp  (Read 647 times)

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Offline pete28

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Getting and staying sharp
« on: January 01, 2020, 03:09:51 PM »
I'm hoping I'm not the only person with this issue and that others can relate. I have a terrible time sharpening things. Axes, knives, chisels,  you name it. I have tried everything. Diamond hones, wet stones, grinders, files, round puck style stones, you name it. I can get things to an ok sharp but nothing to be to excited about. I have watched countless videos and tried every method I can think of. I don't want to settle on having things ok sharp but I'm kinda running out of ideas. Any suggestions?
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Offline madmax

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2020, 03:47:01 PM »
Wish I could help.  I can't hold a candle to the Krac knife making gurus when it comes to sharp.
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2020, 03:50:18 PM »
Just my opinion.

The tool only needs to be sharp enough to do the job it was intended to do. 

How sharp you can get it depends a lot on the steel as much as technique.  Some would say more so.

Staying sharp depends entirely on the steel and level of use.




I have a buck knife that was given to me as a kid, and I have whetted the blade almost to gone.  It has NEVER been sharp since the day I got it.  I cleaned a bunch of game and fish with it and whetting was a constant thing.

I have some knives that hold an edge very well (no thanks to my sharpening skills) on only need a bit of dressing prior to getting started.


Most of the time, if I have a really sharp knife, I cut myself...

Alan


Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2020, 05:07:23 PM »
Pete,
  In Feburary of '17 there was a discussion on the Work Sharp sharpener that might be worth a look. ( http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=13608.msg247608#msg247608  )   I personally used the techniques outlined in a '77 issue of Popular Science that changed my entire approach to sharpening and it works for me.
   There are trade offs between sharpness and strength. Assorted steels have their own characteristics too. Some steels can take an edge and maintain it very well, but getting that edge or even maintaining it can take a long, looooong time. Other steels are a whiz to sharpen but don't hold the edge very well. Luckily a couple quick swipes on a stone or sharpening steel and your back to work.
   I watched a forensic veterinarian dissect a cow and he kept a sharpening steel in his back pocket that he used every few minutes. That cow came apart like it had been in a pressure cooker for a few hours. Very limited saw use, he just separated everything at the joints. An impressive lesson.
   

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2020, 05:17:20 PM »
Axes cause me problems.  Knives, not as much although I am no expert.  I had a lot of trouble in the early days of learning about angles and how to hold them consistent through the stroke.  There are a lot of methods for sharpening from the simple kind you draw the blade through to the old standby Arkansas stones in various hardness.  The draw throughs are tough on the blade as they pull the steel a bit and that can create problems but boy are they quick. The Arkansas stones require consistent angle by freehand and that takes time to learn. 

Scandi knives are the easiest I own to sharpen on a stone or diamond as they are easy to maintain the angle.  Hollow grind and flat grind are different as it usually results in a secondary edge being created.  They are sharp but the edge can be somewhat brittle if the secondary edge is too fine.  Hardest for me is the convex blade as it takes a really careful turn at the right pressure to get it really sharp and durable.  Some steel is so hard you can't really deal with it if you don't have the right equipment.  These days I use a 1x42 belt sander with a variety of grits and finish with a leather strop belt or a simple leather strop glued to a board.  When the RH goes over 60 or so I have a hard time putting an edge on it that lasts very long. 

You mention that you have tried a lot of things and so have I.  I looked in my sharpening case and here is what I found:

An Chef's Choice electric sharpener
Lansky sharpening kit
Gatco sharpening kit with ceramic stones and diamond stones
Edgemaster pull through sharpener with fine and honing steel inserts
Diamond hand stone
Diamond bench stone
Arkansas bench stones in various hardness
old two sided synthetic stones
ceramic two rod sharpener with 22 degree angle when inserted into the base
flat plate glass with various grades of sandpaper from 400 to 8000
ceramic rod with handle for touch ups
leather strops usually glued to an oak flat and some have compound applied
and more

What I have seen that also works well: 
MDF wheels for a grinder that are coated with diamond paste on one and polishing compound on the other
Paper wheels with the same as above
A Tormac sharpener machine
An edgepro guided system
A Spyderco Sharpmaker

If you want something that is pretty easy and does a good job it just might be the Sharpmaker.  They have videos of how to use them on Youtube and would be worth watching.


 

If I was to have one system to use on knives it would be a belt sander and a ceramic rod set at 22 degrees along with a leather strop.  The Spyderco Sharpmaker would substitute for the ceramic rods if need be.  Just my opinion of course and I hope others put in their two cents as I am always interested in how others do this.
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Offline Yellowyak

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2020, 05:47:28 PM »
I've used various methods to get a sharp edge. By far, the best method I have found for getting a super sharp edge has been using a fine grit sandpaper (2,000 grit) adhered to a flat surface, such as glass or a granite plate. I used this primary for sharping chisels and hand plane blades, but works equally well for knives, lookup the scary sharp method.

As @wsdstan mentions, I do own and use a Spyderco Sharpmaker, and it is an excellent tool.

Offline Dabberty

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2020, 10:50:00 PM »
Best would be to see how you do it.
Can you somehow make a video and put it somewhere online like youtube?
For pocket knives I use the lansky system, where you have a guide for the right angle.
For carving knives just sandpaper and strops.
For bushcraft knives I use the DC4 for touching up and wetstones when really needed.
For axes sandpaper for touching up, and file / wetstones for when it is really needed.
And our kitchen knives only with the DC4 stone.
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 03:56:28 AM »
For a lot of years I used a plain old carborundum stone and managed to sharpen and cut just fine.  Now I use a Lansky diamond or a $9 diamond hone from Harbor Freight.  The only reason I stopped using the carborundum stones is the diamond hones make less mess.

I don't obsess about angles as long as it's not to much or too little.  I place the point of the blade on the stone with the edge facing me a push away at an angle.  3 times each side, 2 times each side, 1 time each side.  This gives me a cutting edge that is great for drawing the knife toward me while cutting.

There are those who make rocket surgery out of these sorts of things and there are those who just want a sharp knife.

I've done more than my fair share of axe work and a medium mill bastard file works just fine for most work.


Alan
 

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 03:59:40 AM »
One of the best and cheapest sharpeners I have found is a flat river rock. 

Alan

Offline pete28

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2020, 04:28:37 AM »
Man talk about awesome help! I'll do some research with this new information and get back on here to see what I find. If I am able to I'll post a video and see what we get. Thank you everyone.
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Offline crashdive123

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2020, 05:44:20 AM »
I cheat (if you ain't cheating you ain't trying).  I use a 2 X 72 belt sander and remove the burr with a 2hp buffer.

I will say that Red and Spyder do an awesome job and hand sharpening.  Spyder even hand sharpened a knife that I sent him and forgot to put an edge on it at all.

Offline madmax

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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2020, 09:11:57 AM »
 I've always had pretty good luck sharpening knives and axes in the traditional way with stones or fine files, for the last few years I've been using wet & dry sandpaper and finishing with a strop,  I had a custom knife a while back made out of some kind of tough modern stainless steel that I just couldn't get sharp to my standards, the maker explained that I'd probably need to get it professionally reground or use a machine sharpener.
 I purchased a WorkSharp Ken Onion knife sharpener and it did the trick,  while I still use paper and leather strop to sharpen my sportsman's knives and a file and stone on my axes, the WorkSharp has been my go to method of sharpening my kitchen knives and other hand and power tools.

However, the one big important thing that I've learned over the years is that the quality of the steel in the tools that you purchase is the key to successful sharpening,  price doesn't always insure quality or that you are buying good steel, I also have vintage Buck knives that while being pretty tough and dependable, are not the easiest to put a lasting edge on, and the steel in Buck knives is brittle and subject to chipping and breaking.
Most decent high carbon steel blades in 1095, 01 and A2 Tool steel are fairly inexpensive, easy to sharpen, and hold a decent edge, especially those in the range of the mid to upper fifties on the Rockwell scale.
To some folks sharpening just comes easy,  to others not so much,  for those that have a hard time keeping a decent edge on their working knives it's either the steel that's the problem or it's the angles, for those folks my suggestion is a good reasonably priced electric sharpener with an adjustable angle guide for different shaped knife grinds,  I have the WorkSharp Ken Onion addition sharpener and it'd been great, but I sure there are others on the market that work just as well.   
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Offline crashdive123

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2020, 06:36:02 AM »
I've always had pretty good luck sharpening knives and axes in the traditional way with stones or fine files, for the last few years I've been using wet & dry sandpaper and finishing with a strop,  I had a custom knife a while back made out of some kind of tough modern stainless steel that I just couldn't get sharp to my standards, the maker explained that I'd probably need to get it professionally reground or use a machine sharpener.
 I purchased a WorkSharp Ken Onion knife sharpener and it did the trick,  while I still use paper and leather strop to sharpen my sportsman's knives and a file and stone on my axes, the WorkSharp has been my go to method of sharpening my kitchen knives and other hand and power tools.

However, the one big important thing that I've learned over the years is that the quality of the steel in the tools that you purchase is the key to successful sharpening,  price doesn't always insure quality or that you are buying good steel, I also have vintage Buck knives that while being pretty tough and dependable, are not the easiest to put a lasting edge on, and the steel in Buck knives is brittle and subject to chipping and breaking.
Most decent high carbon steel blades in 1095, 01 and A2 Tool steel are fairly inexpensive, easy to sharpen, and hold a decent edge, especially those in the range of the mid to upper fifties on the Rockwell scale.
To some folks sharpening just comes easy,  to others not so much,  for those that have a hard time keeping a decent edge on their working knives it's either the steel that's the problem or it's the angles, for those folks my suggestion is a good reasonably priced electric sharpener with an adjustable angle guide for different shaped knife grinds,  I have the WorkSharp Ken Onion addition sharpener and it'd been great, but I sure there are others on the market that work just as well.   

I agree with you to a point, but IMO the heat treat is more important.  Obviously there are steels out there that should not be considered for blade steel, but decent to good steels can be heat treated to quite a wide range to achieve the desired hardness.  Some manufacturers leave their steels too hard or too soft with their tempering IMO.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 08:28:39 AM »
I've always had pretty good luck sharpening knives and axes in the traditional way with stones or fine files, for the last few years I've been using wet & dry sandpaper and finishing with a strop,  I had a custom knife a while back made out of some kind of tough modern stainless steel that I just couldn't get sharp to my standards, the maker explained that I'd probably need to get it professionally reground or use a machine sharpener.
 I purchased a WorkSharp Ken Onion knife sharpener and it did the trick,  while I still use paper and leather strop to sharpen my sportsman's knives and a file and stone on my axes, the WorkSharp has been my go to method of sharpening my kitchen knives and other hand and power tools.

However, the one big important thing that I've learned over the years is that the quality of the steel in the tools that you purchase is the key to successful sharpening,  price doesn't always insure quality or that you are buying good steel, I also have vintage Buck knives that while being pretty tough and dependable, are not the easiest to put a lasting edge on, and the steel in Buck knives is brittle and subject to chipping and breaking.
Most decent high carbon steel blades in 1095, 01 and A2 Tool steel are fairly inexpensive, easy to sharpen, and hold a decent edge, especially those in the range of the mid to upper fifties on the Rockwell scale.
To some folks sharpening just comes easy,  to others not so much,  for those that have a hard time keeping a decent edge on their working knives it's either the steel that's the problem or it's the angles, for those folks my suggestion is a good reasonably priced electric sharpener with an adjustable angle guide for different shaped knife grinds,  I have the WorkSharp Ken Onion addition sharpener and it'd been great, but I sure there are others on the market that work just as well.   

I agree with you to a point, but IMO the heat treat is more important.  Obviously there are steels out there that should not be considered for blade steel, but decent to good steels can be heat treated to quite a wide range to achieve the desired hardness.  Some manufacturers leave their steels too hard or too soft with their tempering IMO.

 I couldn't agree more, perhaps I should have been more specific, but I assumed (wrongly) that "good quality blade steel" would include good heat treating,  but you are right,  I've had a few custom knives made of good steel that have failed because of improper heat treating,  I've also had inexpensive production knives made of lessor quality 1074 and 440C steel that have been good working blades,  most likely because of proper heat treating.   
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2020, 12:19:23 PM »
I think all of this information confirms what I have been doing and I am happy with the sharpness of my knives these days.  I have used about every method and settled on a few of what people mention here.  My Lansky or Gatco does great, sandpaper on the glass plate can be great, and the belt sander is, for me, the king of the world.

There are some knives that I own that are 01 tool steel and they are incredibly sharp and hold an edge far longer that some of the others.  I have two of Sarge's knives and they came sharp.  On his kephart I had some issues with the convex blade as I wasn't turning it just right on sandpaper or the strop but the belt sander solved that.  A Bernie Garland I have is so sharp that I was reluctant to use it for fear of never getting it that sharp again.  I finally started using it a bit and it is actually easy with the scandi grind to get back to the razor edge.  One of Red's knives he made from a WoodBear blank that is some kind of stainless is also harder than average to sharpen.  Red didn't care much for the steel but I use it once in awhile and it holds an edge very well and with the belt sander is easy to get back to a hair popper. 

Alan's comment about the angles is correct.  I used to fuss about the degrees but have finally gotten to the point that if it cuts and guts and preps it is fine and I could care less  whether it is 22 degrees or not.

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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2020, 01:47:20 PM »
I use different methods for different knives.  The Scandi grind blades are sharpened with Japanese water stones.  It takes time,  but they stay sharp for ages when done right.
Regular knives get sharpened with the EdgePro Apex gizmo.  Fairly quick,  does a fine job,  and you can make the blade as sharp as needed.  I have polishing tapes up to 10K grit.
All my convex edge blades are mostly stropped.  It is rare to have to break out fine grit sandpaper on a piece of leather or an old mouse pad.

Offline Spyder1958

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2020, 06:07:15 PM »
sharping is learned. you can sharpen any steel with any abrasive object, stone out of stream, concrete, sandpaper, cardboard on & on the list goes. You can get any steel shaving sharp, some take a lot longer than others. but time and effort will get it sharp. don't expect to rub a blade a few strokes and get it sharp. You can take a tablespoon and sharpen it to shave.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2020, 06:50:41 PM »
Hear, hear!  :cheers:
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Offline randyt

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2020, 09:59:49 AM »
there's sharp and working sharp

Offline pete28

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2020, 04:18:33 PM »
Great information folks and thank you. Over the past couple days I've been working with a set of diamond hones I got at harbor freight. I noticed that if I keep the item to be sharpened stationary and move the hones I get really good results. I'll keep experimenting.
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2020, 06:07:09 PM »
I gave the boys one of those HF 4 sided diamond hones ($10) and one for myself of course.

They're great.  I use it primarily for kitchen knives two passes brings knives back to tomato cutting from tomato squashing.  I live with a person who does not share my affinity for sharp knives and they get thrown into the knife drawer anywhichaway so the edges are constantly getting rubbed dull.  And then that person wonders why they won't cut.  Obviously it's the knife's fault.  43 years of trying to explain has produced no positive advances in this regard, so, I continue to sharpen...

Alan

Offline imnukensc

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2020, 09:51:06 PM »
A Mag-Blok, or any of the various iterations of it out there, save knife edges from the ravages of a knife drawer.  Most folks put them on a wall and hang their knives from them unlike what I've done here, but this keeps them handy and right where I do all of my slicing and dicing.


« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:00:30 PM by imnukensc »
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2020, 10:38:20 PM »
Looks like a good idea to me Nuke.  We have no kids around to get in trouble with that kind of storage and I have more knives in drawers cause my knife block is full. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2020, 07:34:32 AM »
 IMHO the worst kitchen invention man ever created is the knife drawer,  and next to the worst is the automatic dish washer,  both of which can turn a pretty decent knife into a straight handled spatula in a matter of months.
 Cheap kitchen knives are another bane,  we have a bunch of grown up children who marvel at the sharpness of my kitchen knives and I can well understand why,  when the wife and I visit the kids around the holidays or when some one of them decided to throw a family get together Dad gets picked to carve the bird, ham, or roast, or to help make the salad and I always silently marvel at just how dull a blade can get and still be called a knife.
 At one time or another I've gifted them each a decent set of kitchen knives complete with a knife block, most have disappeared over time and have been replaced with cheap Chinese made knives, the why is simple, they were brought up right but life has made them too busy to take the time to care for or appreciate the joy of using a good knife,  all of them have a knife drawer (doubles as a catch-all or junk drawer) and all of them have dishwashers, and none of them can sharpen a knife or take the time to learn.
 So, they buy new cheap knives when the old ones get too dull, they take them home. put them right into the dish washer,  let them air dry,  and stick them into the "knife drawer",  and that how they break in their new Wally World cutlery. 
 I don't keep my food prep knives in a drawer,  I keep my really expensive knives in a knife block (it's off limits to everyone but me, not even my wife touches those knives), my other good kitchen knives are kept standing up in a special place between my countertop and the sides of my built in stove where they can't get damaged,
they never see the dish washer and they never cut on a hard surface, when used they get hand washed, towel dried and put back in their assigned place.
 I've had some of my vintage knives for well over fifty years,  most have never been sharpened more than once and then touched up with a steel or strop to keep them sharp, none but one shows any sign of blade wear,  and that one was used when I got it. 
 
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2020, 07:57:37 AM »
We keep our 'user' knives in a wooden knife block that Heather brought to the marriage.....probab ly over 40 years old by now.  The rest of them we don't use as often are kept in a knife drawer, BUT they are each in individual scabbards to protect the edges.  I just use folded corrugated cardboard with a wrap or two of duct tape to make them up.....some of them I know are over 10 years old.  The primo cardboard that has been treated with wax works best....ask for it at the butcher section in your local supermarket. :)
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 08:00:17 AM »
I gave the boys one of those HF 4 sided diamond hones ($10) and one for myself of course.

They're great.  I use it primarily for kitchen knives two passes brings knives back to tomato cutting from tomato squashing.  I live with a person who does not share my affinity for sharp knives and they get thrown into the knife drawer anywhichaway so the edges are constantly getting rubbed dull.  And then that person wonders why they won't cut.  Obviously it's the knife's fault.  43 years of trying to explain has produced no positive advances in this regard, so, I continue to sharpen...

Alan

 Alan,

 Having had the good fortune of graduating from a very prestigious private cooking school operated expressly for my benefit by my Grandmother and my Mom, I do all of the cooking in my household,  I love my wife and kids very much,  but all but my eldest son and his wife are terrible cooks, I have personally hand picked every piece of cookware and cutlery in my kitchen and care for them like a mother cares for her child,  but I can't make the kitchen off limits to my wife, kids, or grandchildren who visit in turn just about every day of the week.
 So, rather than get frustrated or worry about my kitchen stuff I have trained them to keep their hands off my personal knives and my cast iron cookware,  but they are free to use anything else in the kitchen that they please, the rest of my cookware is high quality stainless that they can't damage, and I've set aside a collection of good knives especially for their use which I care for and keep sharp for them.
 By being able to have my own set of knives to myself and keeping another set for the family to use everyone is happy and all of the stress of "which knife can I use" is eliminated,  you might want to give it a try with that other person you live with, it could make life around the house a bit more enjoyable for both of you.   
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:10:38 AM by Moe M. »
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 06:03:04 PM »

 By being able to have my own set of knives to myself and keeping another set for the family to use everyone is happy and all of the stress of "which knife can I use" is eliminated,  you might want to give it a try with that other person you live with, it could make life around the house a bit more enjoyable for both of you.   

I keep any knife I don't want to get used for a screwdriver or paint scraper in my locked office.  The cast iron is in another building.  My wife is a fantastic cook but she gets her knife use (and abuse) from her father.

Two years ago I got assigned the Turkey Carving duties (after 42 years) and, upon refusing to use the electric carving knife, could not find a sharp knife in his whole house.  I finally found a carborundum stone I'd given him years ago and made do with something that was between a bread knife and and a carving knife. 

The next day I went down and bought some decent knives and a diamond hone.  Sharpened everything and confiscated all the trash knives that were in the Knife Drawer. 

This year, it was all gone and all that was in there was some dull Chinese stainless crap. 

I gave up and used the Chain saw electric carving knife, as was evidently the family tradition.  Some things never change.

But, thanks for the advice.  When I walk through the kitchen and someone is dicing onions with a  dull paring knife, I just keep walking.  That way everyone is happy....


Alan

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 06:54:36 PM »


[/quote]

 When I walk through the kitchen and someone is dicing onions with a  dull paring knife, I just keep walking.  That way everyone is happy....


Alan

[/quote]


That made me laugh, I can relate to that.  And if you can do the walk through without rolling your eyes, that is in itself an art form. Well done!

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 07:06:49 PM »
     I have visited my daughters house and found nothing in the entire house that was sharp and nothing to sharpen with. I resorted to using the bottom of a ceramic coffee mug to get through the day. I started to think "How do these people survive!?"
     The last time I was there she had a drawer full of ceramic knives, each in an individual plastic sheath. And a steel, but no other sharpening tools. I guess it's an improvement.

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2020, 07:38:24 PM »
I don't keep everything with a razor edge but I do keep them sharp enough to cut without gnawing at it.  My belt knife, that gets used every day for everything from opening paint cans to a toothpick requires constant dressing on a daily basis, but only enough to get it rope cutting sharp with a rough edge.  In fact I don't take any of my knives to hair shaving level.  My dad used to keep his pocket knife that way.  I never saw the point.  I don't shave my arms and I use one of those five blade Gillette razors that keeps my face uncut.  But, to each their own.

Kitchen and carving knives I want to have an edge that will not slide at all on a tomato skin.  I want it to start cutting immediately as I draw it toward me.  But, I don't want it so sharp that it starts cutting by itself.  I want to be in control of the cutting.  That's bad enough as the bandaid on my left index finger knuckle will attest to. 

I try not to use a steel at all unless there is no other option (that only happens at some else's house). 

We haven't even addressed steak knives......  Guess where they're kept.... the knife drawer.  I've been told they shouldn't go in the dishwasher because it ruins the wooden handles... I point out that they shouldn't go in the f****** knife drawer either because it ruins the blades.  I get called down for my language while the wisdom of my statement goes unnoticed.... (My own personal set is kept in a safe and never sees either the inside of a dishwasher or knife drawer).


Alan
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 04:10:35 AM by Alan R McDaniel Jr »

Offline wolfy

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2020, 09:52:56 PM »
Alan, I was with you until the 2nd to the last paragraph.....polis hing steels RULE! :duel: 8)
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: Getting and staying sharp
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2020, 04:12:28 AM »
Steels will do a god job but I have a hard time with them.  I can wind up more dull than I started with.  It's jsut me.

Alan