Author Topic: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough  (Read 2771 times)

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Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2020, 05:55:59 AM »
oh my what a thread. i'm glad we did'nt drag  religeon into this whew.

  LOL,  by the looks of the world situation today It certainly couldn't hurt if some folks got infected with a little religion and a whole lot of following the Golden Rule,  and respect for others and their property.

  Just saying.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2020, 06:12:58 AM »
:hail:

My goodness it's been quiet today!

I saw a meme once that said "All mothers gave birth to a child, but yours gave birth to a legend!"

That was genius, you called in all the standard righteous causes. God, country, the sanctity of marriage and even good 'ol Texas. Can't argue with any of those for sure.

As the Colonel Bogie March plays gently in the back ground I can hear comedian Ron White. As he stands there in his white shirt, collar open. He holds a glass and cigar in one hand and as he takes a sip of scotch, he is paraphrased as saying "There! That oughta shut 'em up!"

Gotta hand it to ya Alan, good one!  :hail: :cheers:

 Hey Pete, I don't think I've ever heard the Colonel Bogie March,  could you hum a few bars for us ???
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2020, 10:55:57 AM »
My apologies Moe, Bogey was misspelled as Bogie.

Offline windy

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2020, 10:28:35 AM »
Pete, thanks for your comments.  Moe, can I guess that you don't wear a mask when you go to the grocery store?
windy

Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2020, 01:44:10 PM »
Pete, thanks for your comments.  Moe, can I guess that you don't wear a mask when you go to the grocery store?
windy

 Why would you guess that ???

 I believe in the rule of law and an orderly society,  I also know that the law is not always just or right,  but it's always the law (until it's changed),  those who don't obey the law or don't act in an orderly fashion are criminals and should be treated as such.
 Not only do I wear a mask, but I keep my social distance from others,  and obey the directional arrows taped on the floor as well as the six foot markers,  I shop between 6:00am and 7:30 am (the time set aside for seniors to shop), while I may not agree with the powers that be on the extent of the shut down of our social and economic systems I do my part to keep society orderly,  not because some power mad mayor or governor commands me to but because keeping order is vital in times such as these.
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2020, 05:29:14 PM »
Pete, thanks for your comments.  Moe, can I guess that you don't wear a mask when you go to the grocery store?
windy

 Why would you guess that ???

 I believe in the rule of law and an orderly society,  I also know that the law is not always just or right,  but it's always the law (until it's changed),  those who don't obey the law or don't act in an orderly fashion are criminals and should be treated as such.
 Not only do I wear a mask, but I keep my social distance from others,  and obey the directional arrows taped on the floor as well as the six foot markers,  I shop between 6:00am and 7:30 am (the time set aside for seniors to shop), while I may not agree with the powers that be on the extent of the shut down of our social and economic systems I do my part to keep society orderly,  not because some power mad mayor or governor commands me to but because keeping order is vital in times such as these.

Where the heck is that dang "LIKE" button!  The libs just can't understand that conservatism is following the established rules, not defying them.


Alan
 

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2020, 05:32:28 PM »
Even though we have no mandates to do so in effect here, I wear a mask when I'm out and I can't get the virus or give it to anyone.  I wear the mask because it's the right thing to do both from the standpoint of setting an example and just plain old common courtesy to my fellow man.  I wear the mask in leu of wearing a big "Scarlet C".

Alan

Offline wsdstan

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2020, 08:20:40 PM »
I have to wear one to get into the local clinic.  Where I live nobody is wearing masks except at the clinic. 

It is rare to see anyone with a mask in stores.  This is both employees and customers.  At the present time there are zero corona virus cases in the county. 

One medical expert says masks work.  Another says they don't. 
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Offline madmaxine

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2020, 10:33:19 AM »
We're traveling through GA right now.  Pretty much sporadic masking in urban areas, not much in rural.  No we're not going through Atlanta.  Lol.

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2020, 07:49:44 PM »
From day one they told us that wearing a mask won't keep a person from getting the virus.  If the virus is in the air you breathe, then it's going to go right through all but the very best masks. 

The mask is to reduce the virus stream coming from an infected person and will help in reducing the spread of the disease.

Since infected people start shedding the virus before they show symptoms, IF they show symptoms, then their wearing a mask helps keep uninfected people from being as easily exposed to the virus. 

There is still a multitude of ways to transmit the virus from person to person, but the infected, wearing masks will slow the spread until widespread vaccinations can occur.

From day one they told us to wear a mask, not touch face, eyes, nose, eyes, etc., wash hands and do the social distancing thing.  WE didn't do that. WE bought and hoarded toilet paper and hand sanitizer.

Humans? Go figure....


Alan



Offline madmaxine

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2020, 09:42:16 AM »
Naaaa.  Everclear.  You can sanitize anything.  Even your brain.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2020, 11:44:22 AM »
Grain alcohol and grape juice did it in the sixties.   :-[
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Offline imnukensc

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2020, 11:54:19 AM »
My homemade hand sanitizer is made with 190 proof Everclear and aloe gel.  I can get a buzz just by cleaning my hands.
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2020, 05:55:11 AM »
Who knew we had so may s and pussies here?

Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2020, 05:59:23 AM »
Who knew we had so may s and pussies here?

  ROTFLMAO
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Offline madmaxine

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2020, 01:32:09 PM »
NC's democratic gov made masks in public mandatory last week.  I asked Sam how I was supposed to kayak ww with a mask on.

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2020, 09:31:48 PM »
The City of Victoria, TX made the wearing of masks mandatory this past week. The City and County Police can't even keep up with folks that are committing actual crimes.  So, now they are going to be on mask patrol? 

Folks don't understand that making unenforcible rules and laws is worse than doing nothing. 

Alan

Offline Dabberty

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2020, 11:55:23 PM »
I really can't understand that adult people simply cant comply with something so stupid simple as wearing a mask....
 
Thank god here it is different, and now almost all those rules are reversed again.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2020, 05:31:52 AM »
I really can't understand that adult people simply cant comply with something so stupid simple as wearing a mask....
 
Thank god here it is different, and now almost all those rules are reversed again.

 You've actually answered your own question with your statement,  Europeans have been programed over eons to do what they are told (COMPLY), America was born from folks who came here to escape having to conform or comply, in most of the world people do what they are told by the powers that be "or else",  here we take better to suggestions than we do to mandates or orders.   
 Ask us nicely and explain why we should follow recommendations and most people will go along with what you suggest,  telling us to do something simply because you made a rule, and then trying to enforce it with some sort of punishment is the quickest way to get people to reject your commands. 
 Most folks here especially country folks would rather die free than live on their knees taking orders from their masters.
 Another thing that you don't understand is what's really going on in the US today,  it really has very little to do with the corona virus, the pandemic, or racial unrest,  it's actually about abuse of power in a power grab by the left in a battle between keeping a democratic republic, Constitutionally mandated form of government or turning this country over to socialism and possibly a new order one world government where individual rights are replaced by collective rights and where self rule is replaced by fascist dictates.
 I can very well imagine that this all sounds like the tin hat ravings of a senile old man to you and others across the globe,  but it's not, it's the reality of what is driving the radical left to keep people separated and controlled,  and it's why they are encouraging the rioting, looting, and attacks on police and the rule law that we are experiencing today,  not only here but in other parts of the world as well.
 One of the dictates of the Marxist play book is "never let a good disaster go to waste",  and they aren't, they want to see this unique from of self rule government toppled,  and they are doing everything within their power to see that it happens. 
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2020, 02:13:13 PM »
I believe in the rule of law and an orderly society,  I also know that the law is not always just or right,  but it's always the law (until it's changed),  those who don't obey the law or don't act in an orderly fashion are criminals and should be treated as such.
 Not only do I wear a mask, but I keep my social distance from others,  and obey the directional arrows taped on the floor as well as the six foot markers,  I shop between 6:00am and 7:30 am (the time set aside for seniors to shop), while I may not agree with the powers that be on the extent of the shut down of our social and economic systems I do my part to keep society orderly,  not because some power mad mayor or governor commands me to but because keeping order is vital in times such as these.

That was on Wednesday. Four days later, on Sunday:  :coffee:

America was born from folks who came here to escape having to conform or comply, in most of the world people do what they are told by the powers that be "or else",  here we take better to suggestions than we do to mandates or orders.   
 Ask us nicely and explain why we should follow recommendations and most people will go along with what you suggest,  telling us to do something simply because you made a rule, and then trying to enforce it with some sort of punishment is the quickest way to get people to reject your commands. 
 Most folks here especially country folks would rather die free than live on their knees taking orders from their masters.
 

    Uuhmm, dichotomous thoughts. And yet I agree with both. One on a practical level and the other on a philosophical level.  :coffee:
   
 :soap:  And now...... on to the rant!

    I have not come to terms with the people suited up with long guns, side arms, bandolier of spare ammo magazines, and combat knives strapped to their leg as they complain about having to wear a mask or stay home for their own health. I understand they are free to do as they please. They are also free to die of their own selfish stupidity.
     If they crowd the beaches and storm the bars, then they should not occupy the ICU's when things turn sour. If they want to talk big and act tough, then they can leave the limited medical care facilities to those citizens that tried to do the right thing.
    There is a time and place to exercise our rights and freedoms. But, squawking over wearing a mask is not it.
    I know that if you don't protest the little things, the encroachment on freedoms will continue to grow. But really, breaking out the spray and pray weapons for mask wearing and social distancing seems out of place. It would appear as if some were over reacting.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2020, 03:45:51 PM »
Kinda like you Pete?

I have not seen too many bandoliers.  I have not seen any of them say it was because we have to wear masks.  They have protected some property from looters and arsonists though.  You are right that giving up freedoms a little at a time is a poor practice.

By the way using $10 words like dichotomous doesn't get the point across as well as saying two different avenues of thought.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 03:54:05 PM by wsdstan »
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2020, 06:31:45 PM »
No commando types at the crowded beaches, tubing the rivers, or bar hopping like there's no coronavirus.  Those are all the leftist entitled bunch that will be taxing the resources of the hospitals and tax payers, .... again...

Alan

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2020, 07:19:22 PM »
Armed Protestors inside the Michigan State Capitol .

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/495556-armed-protesters-demonstrate-inside-michigan-state-capitol

April 30th? Corona virus restriction complaints was the issue I believe. One of many news reports that covered the incident.

reprimand for my control of the English language is duly noted. Oops, sorry Stan, I'll try to use little words from here on out.  :cheers:


Offline wsdstan

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2020, 10:12:19 PM »
 :cheers:
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Dabberty

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2020, 11:18:08 PM »
You've actually answered your own question with your statement,  Europeans have been programed over eons to do what they are told (COMPLY), America was born from folks who came here to escape having to conform or comply, in most of the world people do what they are told by the powers that be "or else",  here we take better to suggestions than we do to mandates or orders. 
Sorry Moe, but that eon story is complete and utter nonsense. Travel once to Europe, spend some time here, and then you will realize that what you just said is the biggest and freshest pile of bat droppings  :D
And America was born out of mostly 2 kinds of people. Those who seek a new life/opportunities, and those escaping the law due to criminal behavior.
Thats in every history book, that is in every records that still exist of who why they left, that is proven by the records of the court of those days that still exist, and so on.
But I have to admit, your version sounds very romantic  ;D

Fun fact, my mother did hundreds of family tree's leading way back to 1500, and she always showed me those funny and interesting cases.
Also one member of my family left to the US, due to being married to the 'wrong' lady, and no way of divorce without retribution, so he left to the US with another lady.
Another fun story, your ex NHL player of the LA Kings and Mighty Ducks, Dan Bylsma (properly written Bijlsma) is a very far away cousin of mine.
Our family was for generations long ship builders, using mainly the axe, hence our last name Bijlsma, which means 'man with the axe'.
At some point in the US they where looking for ship builders/wood workers, and Dan's ancestors went for it.
Lots of funny stories.


Another thing that you don't understand is what's really going on in the US today,  it really has very little to do with the corona virus, the pandemic, or racial unrest,  it's actually about abuse of power in a power grab by the left in a battle between keeping a democratic republic, Constitutionally mandated form of government or turning this country over to socialism and possibly a new order one world government where individual rights are replaced by collective rights and where self rule is replaced by fascist dictates.
I'm not in the US, and I believe you there are a lot of things going on right now.
But why can't it be so simple as in: "ohw sh!t, old and weak people are dying, and my very small share in preventing or trying to prevent that is wearing a mask, lets do that for a while".
Blaming everything on the government (chosen by the people) is a cheap way out.
In the end, the government is not living in your house/street. You yourself decide if you want to contribute in preventing this disease to spread or not.
If I understand it right, you are not the youngest anymore. Would you not feel better going in a shop and everyone wearing a mask, instead of not wearing anything and protesting, burning other peoples stuff in the streets and so on?

The whole BLM stuff that sadly even reach Europe now, is causing problems here as well.
It is very noticeable that the protesters are not those who have studied, who have steady jobs and so on.
Street names / city squares and buildings with the names of historical heroes are being renamed now, because those heroes where linked with being part of transporting slaves.
But they also forget that those hero's build the country to what it is now. Slave transport was a small thing they did, the bigger and more important thing was the seas wars they fought with the English and Spanish, and defeating them for example, leading us to not being under Spanish /  English rule any more.

Perhaps I am too simple in thinking: let the past be the past, acknowledge  the bad things, cherish the good things, and move on. We live now, not 500 years ago.
And if you are unhappy with your life, get back in (evening) school learn something and work for your dreams, instead of screaming, rioting, looting and damaging other peoples properties.

Did you know that bringing down the "iron curtain" aka communism rule by the russians, all started in Prague, Czech Republic, by students peacefully protesting.
Not by rioting/looting and that kinda crap.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2020, 06:11:01 AM »
You've actually answered your own question with your statement,  Europeans have been programed over eons to do what they are told (COMPLY), America was born from folks who came here to escape having to conform or comply, in most of the world people do what they are told by the powers that be "or else",  here we take better to suggestions than we do to mandates or orders. 
Sorry Moe, but that eon story is complete and utter nonsense. Travel once to Europe, spend some time here, and then you will realize that what you just said is the biggest and freshest pile of bat droppings  :D
And America was born out of mostly 2 kinds of people. Those who seek a new life/opportunities, and those escaping the law due to criminal behavior.
Thats in every history book, that is in every records that still exist of who why they left, that is proven by the records of the court of those days that still exist, and so on.
But I have to admit, your version sounds very romantic  ;D

Fun fact, my mother did hundreds of family tree's leading way back to 1500, and she always showed me those funny and interesting cases.
Also one member of my family left to the US, due to being married to the 'wrong' lady, and no way of divorce without retribution, so he left to the US with another lady.
Another fun story, your ex NHL player of the LA Kings and Mighty Ducks, Dan Bylsma (properly written Bijlsma) is a very far away cousin of mine.
Our family was for generations long ship builders, using mainly the axe, hence our last name Bijlsma, which means 'man with the axe'.
At some point in the US they where looking for ship builders/wood workers, and Dan's ancestors went for it.
Lots of funny stories.


Another thing that you don't understand is what's really going on in the US today,  it really has very little to do with the corona virus, the pandemic, or racial unrest,  it's actually about abuse of power in a power grab by the left in a battle between keeping a democratic republic, Constitutionally mandated form of government or turning this country over to socialism and possibly a new order one world government where individual rights are replaced by collective rights and where self rule is replaced by fascist dictates.
I'm not in the US, and I believe you there are a lot of things going on right now.
But why can't it be so simple as in: "ohw sh!t, old and weak people are dying, and my very small share in preventing or trying to prevent that is wearing a mask, lets do that for a while".
Blaming everything on the government (chosen by the people) is a cheap way out.
In the end, the government is not living in your house/street. You yourself decide if you want to contribute in preventing this disease to spread or not.
If I understand it right, you are not the youngest anymore. Would you not feel better going in a shop and everyone wearing a mask, instead of not wearing anything and protesting, burning other peoples stuff in the streets and so on?

The whole BLM stuff that sadly even reach Europe now, is causing problems here as well.
It is very noticeable that the protesters are not those who have studied, who have steady jobs and so on.
Street names / city squares and buildings with the names of historical heroes are being renamed now, because those heroes where linked with being part of transporting slaves.
But they also forget that those hero's build the country to what it is now. Slave transport was a small thing they did, the bigger and more important thing was the seas wars they fought with the English and Spanish, and defeating them for example, leading us to not being under Spanish /  English rule any more.

Perhaps I am too simple in thinking: let the past be the past, acknowledge  the bad things, cherish the good things, and move on. We live now, not 500 years ago.
And if you are unhappy with your life, get back in (evening) school learn something and work for your dreams, instead of screaming, rioting, looting and damaging other peoples properties.

Did you know that bringing down the "iron curtain" aka communism rule by the russians, all started in Prague, Czech Republic, by students peacefully protesting.
Not by rioting/looting and that kinda crap.

 Thanks for helping to make my point,  A, I know very little about Europe and it's people except that they are still being ruled over,  of course they won't admit it,  but they are still subjects of their governments and not the citizens they like to believe they are.
 B, You know very little about America or it's people otherwise you wouldn't be looking at things here as anywhere near simple, they aren't,  the problems that we are experiencing are not virus related,  they are mostly politically motivated,  our people have no problem with wearing masks, staying home, or social distancing, we've been doing it since the beginning of the year.
 Our issues with government intrusion is not that they are trying to protect society from ,  it's that they are using the pandemic by over reaching and by instituting rules and restrictions that make absolutely no sense that limit peoples ability to do simple things that don't endanger the public,  like planting and tending private gardens on privately owned property for their own use,  they stop people from using their small boats or from fishing on an individual basis,  the political left is not only enabling the rioters but encouraging the looting, burning, property damage and attacks on first responders who are trying to bring back order and save lives and property.
 In short, this is an organized war being waged to destroy our country and our culture, and in part a war against President Trump and his political and social policies and to influence the next national election,  so no my friend it's about as far from simple as it can get.
 What we are experiencing here has nothing to do with Corvid/19, social injustice, or race relations,  and has everything to do with people control, destroying Constitutional self rule, the rule of law, installing socialism, and insuring that the radical left rules this country and it's people way into the future.
 While it could be that I'm misunderstanding your writings,  but to set the record straight, it's not my people who are rioting, looting, burning, destroying property, tearing down national monuments, and killing police officers,  those that are demanding anarchy are the minions of the radical left.
 I don't know where you get your news from,  but most Americans do wear masks when out in public, when shopping or otherwise engaged in their everyday business where they interact with others,  except for a few pockets in the most rural areas of the country where the virus hasn't invaded all businesses require patrons to wear masks,  limit the number of people allowed in stores and shops, non essential businesses are still closed, banking must be done via drive up windows or by mail.
 In other words no one is complaining about masks and social distancing,  what people are complaining about is not being able to buy vegetable seeds or have a key made to replace the one that got lost or damaged that unlocks their homes and starts their cars,  what they don't like is rioters burning down their cities, attacking citizens and looting businesses, and they don't appreciate being kept locked up in their homes while their neighborhoods are being destroyed.

 Yes, it would be nice if things were as simple here as you seem to think they are,  but sadly, they are not. ???   
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2020, 07:21:48 PM »
My ancestors came to this side of the Atlantic for the same reason immigrants come today.  Freedom.

Alan

Offline Dabberty

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2020, 12:22:26 AM »
My information comes A the news, B dear friends living there since a couple of years and C colleagues with who we have weekly team conference calls.
Well Moe, more and more I start to lean towards what you wrote yourself:\
I can very well imagine that this all sounds like the tin hat ravings of a senile old man
You're idea on how Europe is being ruled, it's just funny. Feel free in believing yourself and not even listen to someone who actually lives there :-)
Good luck with blaming and naming everything and everyone else.

Alan, what happened to the rumors of running from the law..?  Or did you mean freedom from the law that those ancestors perhaps broke?

I'm done with this topic, it is way too political. I thought I would add some insights from this side of the ocean, but it is useless I noticed.
I'll stick with bushcrafty things again.
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Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2020, 04:10:07 AM »
It's not hard for freedom loving people to run afoul of oppressive, tyrannical laws.....  (not to say that our current Liberal leaders aren't trying their dead level best to impose those types of laws on us).

I majored in History, taught History and have a Masters of Education. I was also the Textbook Coordinator for our school district.  Not that those things are anything special, but I've got a fair idea of what is in a lot of the History books, and I have had the opportunity to view how those History books have changed in their content and scope over the past +/- 100 years.  The revisionists seem to be winning one baby step at a time. 

I will admit that since my retirement I have let my reading lapse to almost nothing.  I can't say that I haven't enjoyed NOT having every conversation digress into a History lesson. 

The last major conflict that the United States endured on our own soil ended in 1865, and aside from the "Indian Wars" (our last foray into ethnic cleansing) and some Bandit raids on the southern border, the concept of freedom in the US has not been marred or interrupted for over 150 years. The same cannot be said for the whole of Europe as two World Wars, an oppressive Communist regime and instances of ethnic cleansing have occurred in that same time period.  Although we (the US) was involved in some of that, and it certainly affected us, it did not happen in our back yards as it did in Europe.  So, my point is, that we are comparing different concepts of Freedom, one that has not endured the atrocities of war and murderous oppression and another that is only recently removed from that. 

There is certainly not enough time, space or desire on my part to go through it all and cite my sources.  It's 5:00 AM here and I am supposed to be out in my shop deciding on my day's activities (at least until #1 wife changes my plans)

I too need to be doing something enjoyable.  Politics is hardly that....


Alan

Offline Moe M.

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2020, 05:41:55 AM »
It's not hard for freedom loving people to run afoul of oppressive, tyrannical laws.....  (not to say that our current Liberal leaders aren't trying their dead level best to impose those types of laws on us).

I majored in History, taught History and have a Masters of Education. I was also the Textbook Coordinator for our school district.  Not that those things are anything special, but I've got a fair idea of what is in a lot of the History books, and I have had the opportunity to view how those History books have changed in their content and scope over the past +/- 100 years.  The revisionists seem to be winning one baby step at a time. 

I will admit that since my retirement I have let my reading lapse to almost nothing.  I can't say that I haven't enjoyed NOT having every conversation digress into a History lesson. 

The last major conflict that the United States endured on our own soil ended in 1865, and aside from the "Indian Wars" (our last foray into ethnic cleansing) and some Bandit raids on the southern border, the concept of freedom in the US has not been marred or interrupted for over 150 years. The same cannot be said for the whole of Europe as two World Wars, an oppressive Communist regime and instances of ethnic cleansing have occurred in that same time period.  Although we (the US) was involved in some of that, and it certainly affected us, it did not happen in our back yards as it did in Europe.  So, my point is, that we are comparing different concepts of Freedom, one that has not endured the atrocities of war and murderous oppression and another that is only recently removed from that. 

There is certainly not enough time, space or desire on my part to go through it all and cite my sources.  It's 5:00 AM here and I am supposed to be out in my shop deciding on my day's activities (at least until #1 wife changes my plans)

I too need to be doing something enjoyable.  Politics is hardly that....


Alan

 Excellent post Alan.
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline Dabberty

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2020, 06:43:35 AM »
The last major conflict that the United States endured on our own soil ended in 1865, and aside from the "Indian Wars" (our last foray into ethnic cleansing) and some Bandit raids on the southern border, the concept of freedom in the US has not been marred or interrupted for over 150 years. The same cannot be said for the whole of Europe as two World Wars, an oppressive Communist regime and instances of ethnic cleansing have occurred in that same time period.  Although we (the US) was involved in some of that, and it certainly affected us, it did not happen in our back yards as it did in Europe.  So, my point is, that we are comparing different concepts of Freedom, one that has not endured the atrocities of war and murderous oppression and another that is only recently removed from that. 
That is a very narrow point of view.
Is it not convenient to start your timeframe after all the indian & mexican cleansing...?
What about slavery, is that worthy of mentioning, since it was sort of legal to kill slaves over nothing?

Perhaps it is better phrased this way "In the last 150 years the us prefers to start wars overseas, or mingle in overseas civil wars"....?
It's pretty common knowledge that oil control is a major reason for some of those latest wars :)
If you ever feel like catching up reading on where the US is busy, here is a simple link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

Or another way of looking it at is that people who so controlled (as you think Europeans are) would never start a war. But since there where 2 World Wars (not just in Europe as you wrote), it seems they are not so controlled and programmed as you claim. With this way of looking at it, it seems the US is more controlled since they claim to have no inland issue's.

Alan, although politics is crap, I like these discussions with you, even when we do not agree.


Moe, thank god for Alan, if he would not be posting, you would be so lost.

My outdoor & DIY blog:  www.dabberty.com

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: As if the Corona Virus wasn't enough
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2020, 08:50:11 PM »
I didn't start after anything.  I gave a time period to qualify my assertions.  In fact I believe I noted the Indian thing and called it ethnic cleansing.  Actually it was not ethnic cleansing, it was extermination, similar to the early 1940's Germany only much more open and brutal.

Regarding the legality of killing slaves.  (I will preface my remarks with my opinion that Chattel Slavery is one of the most abhorrent atrocities humans have visited on one another). While it was certainly done at times, I would have to research the legality of doing so.  I seem to recall that the murder or mistreatment of slaves was not entirely legal.  In addition to its questionable legality, it would have been extremely stupid to kill or injure a slave.  Slaves were owned to work.  If they were killed or injured, they could not work.  They were also extremely valuable. 

And the truth of the matter of slavery is that the bulk of human History, in nearly all cultures, slavery has existed.  We, as humans have only recently, the blink of an eye in our written History, abandoned Chattel Slavery as an institution.

 
"Perhaps it is better phrased this way "In the last 150 years the us prefers to start wars overseas, or mingle in overseas civil wars"....?"

Perhaps it's not better.  At great expense and loss of American lives, The US pulled Europe's fat out of the fire, twice.  The first time when we were very much into isolationism and only reluctantly the second time because WE were attacked.

Oh, and I don't think there was any Mexican ethnic cleansing.  I lived much of my adult life in an area that was and still is about 98% Hispanic.  There was no Mexican ethnic cleansing.

wikipedia? really?  I'll pass.  I use wikipedia to look up when movie stars were born and died, not as a credible Historical resource. 

The reason I referred to the "whole of Europe" is because that is where the discussion was centered, not the only place the Wars were fought.... 

I cited my credentials, I guess I assumed that you would understand that I knew they were "World Wars"... but ass-u-me  got me again...