Author Topic: 1984  (Read 564 times)

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Offline madmaxine

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1984
« on: July 28, 2020, 06:09:25 AM »
I got a dose of reality yesterday.  We all know where this world is headed but I guess I knew intellectually not emotionally.  Plus I really don't spend a lot of time in stores.  So I'm in the grocery and a pleasant (but monotone) female voice came on and basically said, "Please do what we tell you to do.  Stay six feet apart.  Wear a mask.  Walk in the direction of the arrows to avoid close contact with others (???).  You may not buy more than two cans of some products per family.  We are all in this together.  Thank you."

I got chills.

"Signs.  Signs.  Everywhere there's signs.  Do this.  Do that.  Can't ya read the signs?"

I let my hair out from under my hat.  And asked myself , "Why?"

We knew it in the 70's.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 06:14:36 AM by madmaxine »

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 07:10:49 AM »
Some of us have re-education centers in our future.  Either that or a Gulag where we cannot cause trouble.

The "do what we tell you" bothers me a great deal.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 07:28:29 AM »
I got a dose of reality yesterday.  We all know where this world is headed but I guess I knew intellectually not emotionally.  Plus I really don't spend a lot of time in stores.  So I'm in the grocery and a pleasant (but monotone) female voice came on and basically said, "Please do what we tell you to do.  Stay six feet apart.  Wear a mask.  Walk in the direction of the arrows to avoid close contact with others (???).  You may not buy more than two cans of some products per family.  We are all in this together.  Thank you."

I got chills.

"Signs.  Signs.  Everywhere there's signs.  Do this.  Do that.  Can't ya read the signs?"

I let my hair out from under my hat.  And asked myself , "Why?"

We knew it in the 70's.

  Good question Tony,  surely it couldn't be part of a master plan to deny us our Constitutional rights to assemble, conduct free political speech,  practice our religion, or interfere with our ability to move about unrestricted,  and then there's that whole anti Second amendment thing that keeps being brought up and acted on in the shadows of congress,  why just this past week the house passed a Bill that had to do with a small rather unimportant proposal, so unimportant that most of the representatives didn't bother reading it,  and somewhere in the pages hidden between the text was a law that would strip away all Second amendment rights of Military and Police (active duty or retired) if they showed any signs of possible PTSD,  or were ever involved in a domestic dispute,  and gave federal agents the right to confiscate any and all weapons they might own without warning or the benefit of a show cause hearing.
  Is it a coincidence that they would also be Americans who have been trained in the use of tactical weapons and the arts of war,  just something else to ponder.
  I know I'm probably just being paranoid because of all of the crap that has been visited upon us since the first of the year,  a serious life threatening pandemic, the loss of many of our basic liberties,  food and essentials shortages,  our economy shattered because of business's being shut down or burned down,  being ordered to stay in or homes,  to keep away from family and friends,  the depressing effect on us of seeing everyone wearing a mask like a scene out of Rod Serling's Twilight Zone,  I can't even get a key made for a padlock in a hardware store being maned by the regular staff,  like the mere act of grinding a key is going to endanger the public at large.
 Now if that isn't bad enough a whole new bunch of "special interest" groups, protesters, domestic terrorist, and fools who don't know any better have declared war on white America,   placed a bounty on police officers, tear down our historic references,  destroy private and public property,  loot businesses,  and burn cities,  and they are encouraged to do so by the very officials that were elected by The People to protect society against this kind of foolishness.
 And now in one city alone in just one weekend 60 people were shot down in the streets,  some of them just babies, wholesale violence and blood letting in the streets, funny how this this series of events coincides with chairman Mao's play book for overthrowing a country and controlling it's people,  we seem to be in stage four of his plan now that the killing has begun.     
 You're right about the signs Tony,  they are all around us,  but the ones that are the most telling are not the ones that are printed and hung on the wall or those painted or taped to the floor,  they are the ones we are forced to live with, those video sound bites we see on the news of burning buildings and police cars, broken windows, wrecked buildings and explosions of fireworks and IED's being set off by the human scum in our streets who's only goal is to terrorize people into submission and to tear down this great country. 

 Maybe they (who ever "they" are) are just prepping us for the loss of those freedoms that we have all so taken for granted over the last 250 years.    ???

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 07:36:42 AM »
Some of us have re-education centers in our future.  Either that or a Gulag where we cannot cause trouble.

The "do what we tell you" bothers me a great deal.

  I think we're in the choosing up sides right now,  folks like us are too old to be reeducated Stan, we'll either go down fighting or praying,  maybe both, our chances of surviving what seems to be coming doesn't look all that promising,  but there are two things I know for sure,  I ain't going to any camp or gulag,  and before I fall they are going to know they've been in a fight.   :duel:

Offline madmaxine

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Re: 1984
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2020, 08:02:15 AM »
Kelly was in Walmart the other day after she got her picture in the local paper at a "2nd amendment/4 more years march with her Trump hat on and an older gentleman got started up
His telling comment was, "They'll likely take me out quick...but I'm damn sure gonna take some with me."

Kinda brings tears to your eyes.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2020, 08:18:36 AM »
Kelly was in Walmart the other day after she got her picture in the local paper at a "2nd amendment/4 more years march with her Trump hat on and an older gentleman got started up
His telling comment was, "They'll likely take me out quick...but I'm damn sure gonna take some with me."

Kinda brings tears to your eyes.

  It does Tony,  but for more reasons than that,  Tell Kelly I applaud her style,  My better half is very attuned to what's going on and is active on social media spreading the word and arguing with anti Trump idiots but she's pretty reserved on the militant scale,  a week or so ago she was watching Marc Lavin on the TV and paused it for a moment then surprised me by asking "how much ammo do we have stocked up",  and again a few nights ago out of the blue she turned to me and asked if I wanted her shooting beside me or would it be better if she just reloaded magazines, God we need to be proud of our women.   :thumbsup:   

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 10:02:53 AM »
I know you and I ain't going to any re-education camp it was just speaking rhetorically. 

There will likely be no wide scale war but a token display of dissent.  If our military backs the conservative viewpoint then we win.  If they stay with the globalists then it is over.  The JCS makes that decision.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: 1984
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 10:18:25 AM »
I am a mask miscreant and I don?t follow the arrows on the floor.  I do stay away from others, but then I don?t want to be near anyone in the first place.

Offline wolfy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 01:17:37 PM »
 :rofl: :cheers:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: 1984
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2020, 02:04:19 PM »
If everyone went down and got an antibodies test I think we'd find that a huge percentage of the population has already had the virus. 

It would be interesting to know if the people who are coming up positive in these record breaking numbers every day on the TV, were wearing masks, social distancing and eating their Wheaties every morning. 

If they are not, then possibly all that crap works.  If they are then I probably doesn't matter. 

My niece worked in the Covid unit at a Texas hospital.  She had the best gear and the highest protocol of anyone.  Guess what?  She got it.  Sick for four days, flu symptoms.  Her husband tested positive with "0" symptoms.  The kids aren't sick. 

Solution: Blockade China until they get their $hit together and shut these recurring viruses down.  AND, total transparency and accountability on their "Virus Programs" or we sterilize the area. Harsh?  Yeah, so is continuously battling their d@mn diseases.

Alan

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: 1984
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2020, 02:11:40 PM »
Went to the PO today.  Halfway across the street I realized I'd left the mask in the truck.  Looked around and I was the only one there.  Opened my box and getting my mail and a 30ish gal with thighs too big for her shorts comes in, stops and says, "Is this the only place that doesn't require mandatory masks?"  I get my mail, close my box, cough, and say, "I don't know, look for a sign", and went on my way.  She had nothing more to say. 

I do try to wear the dang thing and in Victoria they won't let you in the stores without one.  Walmart (where I seldom go) had two security guards (the real ones with guns) at the door.  No mask, no enter.  Wouldn't have bothered me not to go in but I needed something they had. 

Humana sent me two pretty nice ones.  Puke Green, dead giveaway Medicare age.....


Alan

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2020, 02:27:47 PM »
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44.htm

Section 922 (Unlawful acts)

(4)   has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

I think this has been around for a few years.
This is just a sample, the whole thing needs to be viewed to keep it in context. Where does PTSD fall in these definitions and unlawful acts?
Are they all infringements on the 2nd amendment? Just asking for a friend! :) :)



Offline windy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2020, 11:31:54 PM »
I stopped at the clinic today to pick up a pair of glasses; on the door was a new graphic: If he has it and you don't and neither of you is wearing a mask in normal distances--70% chance you'll get it.  If one or the other of you is wearing a mask-- 30 to 40% you'll get it.  If both of you are wearing masks--1-1/2% chance you'll get it.  I was just reading up on the 1918 flu: because it hit TB sufferers especially hard, and since most TB sufferers at the time were male, the deaths rebalanced the sexes: before 1918 flu, more men, after the flu, more women.  That's after correcting for the disproportionate loss of men in WW1.  I'm guessing there'll be a different sort of rebalancing this time--if they're right about the masks, the IQ of the survivors will be higher than before the flu.  A new "100".
windy

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: 1984
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 12:22:24 AM »
To be honest, the mask thing strikes me as pretty trivial compared to jackbooted thugs with no insignia kidnapping people off the street in unmarked cars.  Worrying about being forced to wear a mask if you want a Slurpee is like worrying about the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic as it goes down.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 05:53:18 AM »
 :cheers:
I am a mask miscreant and I don?t follow the arrows on the floor.  I do stay away from others, but then I don?t want to be near anyone in the first place.

      :cheers:

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 05:56:38 AM »
If everyone went down and got an antibodies test I think we'd find that a huge percentage of the population has already had the virus. 

It would be interesting to know if the people who are coming up positive in these record breaking numbers every day on the TV, were wearing masks, social distancing and eating their Wheaties every morning. 

If they are not, then possibly all that crap works.  If they are then I probably doesn't matter. 

My niece worked in the Covid unit at a Texas hospital.  She had the best gear and the highest protocol of anyone.  Guess what?  She got it.  Sick for four days, flu symptoms.  Her husband tested positive with "0" symptoms.  The kids aren't sick. 

Solution: Blockade China until they get their $hit together and shut these recurring viruses down.  AND, total transparency and accountability on their "Virus Programs" or we sterilize the area. Harsh?  Yeah, so is continuously battling their d@mn diseases.

Alan

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 06:52:35 AM »
To be honest, the mask thing strikes me as pretty trivial compared to jackbooted thugs with no insignia kidnapping people off the street in unmarked cars.  Worrying about being forced to wear a mask if you want a Slurpee is like worrying about the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic as it goes down.

  I assume you're talking about about the federal agents who are rounding up the domestic terrorist who are looting, burning, and destroying private and public property,  personally I applaud them and their actions,  peaceful protests are one thing, fire bombing businesses, court houses, attacking police,  and intimidating area residents is another,  disappearing them is not such a bad thing,  I applaud the President for his intent on putting down this phony rebellion before it turns into a bloody civil war.

Offline madmaxine

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Re: 1984
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 12:07:18 PM »
Moe...have you been eavesdropping in my head again.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 12:56:08 PM »
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline duxdawg

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Re: 1984
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 01:53:56 PM »
To be honest, the mask thing strikes me as pretty trivial compared to jackbooted thugs with no insignia kidnapping people off the street in unmarked cars.  Worrying about being forced to wear a mask if you want a Slurpee is like worrying about the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic as it goes down.
   
You've got things backwards.

Your supposed jackbooted thugs are actually honorable LEOs properly and prudently using sanitized uniforms and unmarked vehicles because the kookadoodle commie thugs are DELIBERATELY targeting uniforms and marked vehicles. Maybe you missed the HUNDREDS of LEOs and squad cars across this nation that have been attacked?? The dozens burned and murdered ringing any bells?? The commies have left them no choice but to go incognito.

Further, it is NOT innocent civilians being spirited away by gov't thugs. Could NOT be farther from that!! The ONLY ones they're ARRESTING - NOT kidnapping - are VIOLENT CRIMINALS. The honorable LEOs putting life and limb on the line to PROTECT US are only arresting known criminals with outstanding warrants. Just crazy how many clueless imbeciles haven't taken the time to see that! Don't y'all ever read beyond the headline?? Don't y'all ever engage your brain??

How any true patriotic American can misunderstand or be against known violent criminals being taken off the streets just boggles the mind! 

As to masks, all mask mandates are tyranny, unConstitutional, illegal, immoral and ineffective.
It is the gov't's duty to protect our persons, Rights and property. It is up to each of us to decide what to wear, spend our money and time on.

The masks are ineffective due a lack of training on type, fit, duration and touch protocols whilst wearing. The masks are COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY because there is only a 38% chance of catching China virus (SARS-CoV-2 aka nCoV-2019 aka COVID-19, etc) even when you are stuck on a ship for MONTHS with KNOWN POSITIVES using absolutely NO quarantine procedures: no masks, no distancing, no sanitizers, etc. NOTHING. Research the data. The FACTS have been out there the entire time. You just need to ignore the complicit commie propaganda media and read the ACTUAL STUDIES for yourself.

Even with the VASTLY OVERINFLATED numbers the propaganda media is shoving down our throats, China virus still hasn't surpassed the ordinary flu numbers we've never made a big deal about for all these years.

Further, if you do catch China virus, you only have a 4% chance of having ANY symptoms whatsoever. If you don't have multiple co-morbidity factors, you only have a 2% chance of needing anything beyond over the counter medications to fully recover from China virus. Even if you do have multiple co-morbidities, if you get on the HCQ + Azithromycin + zinc protocol within the first four days of symptoms, you have a 99% chance of a full recovery in a few days.

In other words, if this wasn't an election year... no one would have heard of China virus.

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: 1984
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 03:13:15 PM »
Anyone, rioting and attacking the police, looting, destroying property, etc., has, by their actions, shown that they have no regard for the rights and safety of others and therefore no regard for their own.  They should be stopped by whatever means are most expedient in causing them to cease their criminal acts. IF, they get away, they should be hunted down, ferreted out and dealt with according to their degree of resistance to arrest.  If they survive that, then let them suffer due process.

Alan

Offline Alan R McDaniel Jr

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Re: 1984
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 03:15:58 PM »
Oh, and any mayor, governor or other authority that fails to act to protect the citizenry from the criminal acts of these terrorists, should be arrested and charged with complicity.  If lives are lost, complicity to murder.

Alan
 

Offline madmaxine

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Re: 1984
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 03:23:47 PM »
They are domestic terrorists.  And some are quite stupid.  One just got arrested after he tried to light a fire in a federal building bathroom.  He had his name tattooed across his back.  On video.


Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 03:32:18 PM »

  I always said I was in good company,  Patriots all,  well except for one.   :(

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2020, 03:56:21 PM »
sad state of affairs when these terrorists are terrorizing and LEO are the bad guys. Never thought I would see the day. Protesting is one thing and most of what is going on is not a protest. Firebombing a court house is not a "protest". I reckon the rioters "identify" with being a protester, that makes it OK.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2020, 04:24:25 PM »
Well stated randyt. 

We are watching the deep state and when these criminals, looters, and traitors are allowed to burn, steal, maim, and kill without repercussion it is the politicians who aid and abet them that also should be arrested and sent to prison.

The sooner the criminals are off the streets and the sooner the deep state is exposed for what it is the better. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2020, 05:49:05 PM »
Well stated randyt. 

We are watching the deep state and when these criminals, looters, and traitors are allowed to burn, steal, maim, and kill without repercussion it is the politicians who aid and abet them that also should be arrested and sent to prison.

The sooner the criminals are off the streets and the sooner the deep state is exposed for what it is the better.

 :hail:

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2020, 06:40:00 PM »
 :hail: aid and abet or imcompentance. The crazy thing to me is they sit by and watch their cities burn but then they think the rest of us should pay to have their cities rebuilt. In a liberal's mind that is probably job creation, they're probably proud of themselves.

Offline hayshaker

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Re: 1984
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 06:57:07 PM »
my two cents is this.  while we as a nation are distracted by all these events.
our natio is about to be witness to the greatest economic collaspe this world has ever seen.
lately i've been putting by at least 2'yrs worth of firewood ,  1 reason being with a comming total usd collaspe
fuel will be hard to come by. the chain saws and wood splitter don't run on air.

i'm praying for all here my fourm family. god help us in these days to come.
for the wolf is already at the door.
                                                         mikey

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2020, 04:47:12 AM »
Was watching the news this morning . They mentioned violent protests. Is that much different that a riot?

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2020, 05:04:24 AM »
Well stated randyt. 

We are watching the deep state and when these criminals, looters, and traitors are allowed to burn, steal, maim, and kill without repercussion it is the politicians who aid and abet them that also should be arrested and sent to prison.

The sooner the criminals are off the streets and the sooner the deep state is exposed for what it is the better.

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2020, 10:32:52 AM »
disappearing them is not such a bad thing,  I applaud the President for his intent on putting down this phony rebellion before it turns into a bloody civil war.

Do you think the tactics of "Operation Condor" towards dissidents was justified?
If you had the opportunity to address the "Mothers of Plaza de Mayo", what would you tell them?
Do you find Francisco Franco's method of dealing with dissidents interesting?
and most importantly, is this the direction you want our country to go?

Since you authored the statement "disappearing them is not such a bad thing", I can only presume your answer to the last question is yes.

If that becomes the opinion of many, then yes, we should fear for the direction our country is headed. 

Don't get me wrong, I believe in shooting looters on sight as they come in the door. I believe in the castle doctrine.  Making dissidents disappear in the dark of night by secret police is a chicken livered, yellow bellied way to do business. Why are they sneaking around using unmarked or coded uniforms and vehicles? What are they hiding, that they can't stand up and take responsibility for their actions? Are they doing something they shouldn't? And what's with the camouflage uniforms? Deception to make citizens think they are military troops? Cheap shot by the DHS or whoever it is, with that tactic.
A few years back there was concern about FEMA, US Treasury, DHS and other US government departments buying up hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo. Is this where we find out why?

There! That was fun! I got my chance to jump onto the soapbox and vociferously bloviate( Sorry Stan) toot the horn too. Thanks guys.





« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 12:07:45 PM by Pete Bog »

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2020, 12:16:24 PM »
Pete you remind me of a phrase about a Christmas Goose.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
 :lol: :lol:  Yeah, but it was fun while it lasted! At least she didn't slap me!  :banana:

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2020, 06:55:09 PM »
disappearing them is not such a bad thing,  I applaud the President for his intent on putting down this phony rebellion before it turns into a bloody civil war.

Do you think the tactics of "Operation Condor" towards dissidents was justified?
If you had the opportunity to address the "Mothers of Plaza de Mayo", what would you tell them?
Do you find Francisco Franco's method of dealing with dissidents interesting?
and most importantly, is this the direction you want our country to go?

Since you authored the statement "disappearing them is not such a bad thing", I can only presume your answer to the last question is yes.

If that becomes the opinion of many, then yes, we should fear for the direction our country is headed. 

Don't get me wrong, I believe in shooting looters on sight as they come in the door. I believe in the castle doctrine.  Making dissidents disappear in the dark of night by secret police is a chicken livered, yellow bellied way to do business. Why are they sneaking around using unmarked or coded uniforms and vehicles? What are they hiding, that they can't stand up and take responsibility for their actions? Are they doing something they shouldn't? And what's with the camouflage uniforms? Deception to make citizens think they are military troops? Cheap shot by the DHS or whoever it is, with that tactic.
A few years back there was concern about FEMA, US Treasury, DHS and other US government departments buying up hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo. Is this where we find out why?

There! That was fun! I got my chance to jump onto the soapbox and vociferously bloviate( Sorry Stan) toot the horn too. Thanks guys.

 Pete, if the criminals that are being arrested by federal police officers were dissidents or protesters I'd be right there agreeing with you, but they aren't either dissidents or protestors,  they are either paid instigators with a goal to cause anarchy and confusion or they are dumb kids who have been brain washed and being used as pawns,  protestors don't attack police with lethal weapons or blind them with lasers, they don't burn cities and loot businesses,  and they don't shoot and kill people who don't agree with them,  they do have a name how ever,  we call them domestic terrorist,  their aim is to tear this country down,  to destroy our history, our culture, our economy, our religious sects, they are in fact committing sabotage against this country,  they are enemies of the state without a doubt,  they are organized, they are funded by globalist like George Soros and his ilk and supported by socialist democrat legislators acting against the very oath they swore to when they took office,  and they deserve no less punishment than the terrorist they support. 
 If you compare the acts of tyrants and dictators who use force to put down civilians who are rightfully protesting their subjugation to those who are enforcing established law and acting to prevent criminal behavior, property damage,  arson, fire bombing,  and trying to overthrow the Constitution, you are practicing moral relativity,  and evidently you can't distinguish right from wrong,  if that's how you think you're wasting your time here,  you need to grab a box of matches and join your comrades out in the streets.           

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2020, 06:58:22 PM »
Pete you remind me of a phrase about a Christmas Goose.

   :thumbsup:   :cheers:

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2020, 07:40:10 PM »
is there anything off limits for a protester? or does anything go? what would be going to far? assault and battery that's ok, fire bombing that's ok, property damage that's ok, arson that's ok, killing that's ok.
What would be going to far? rape? child molestation? drunk driving? or is that ok too because after all they are "protesting".

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2020, 10:31:16 PM »
randyt, Are you having difficulty distinquishing between a protester, and a domestic terrorist? You make it sound like there is no such thing as a valid protester trying to stand up, in a peaceful manner, and vocalizing his or her concerns. If there is something wrong with an established protocol, people have a right of assembly to bring those issues to light and hopefully implement change. It's how we move forward as a society.
   To give an example. When I was a little kid in the 50's, a neighborhood kid was killed by a drunk driver.
    This is a direct quote " Well, he didn't know what he was doing. He was drunk."
    The inference was, the drunk driver was not responsible due to his impaired condition.
     Back then, drunk driving was OK. Times have changed. Through the protests and demonstrations of organizations like MADD, changes have been made. And we have moved forward toward a better society.
     I ask a lot of questions in some of my posts and they are seldom answered. I will attempt to answer yours.

    Is there anything off limits for a protester?   Yes
    or does anything go?    No
    What would be going to far? For the most part you answered with the following examples:
    assault and battery, that's ok.  No it's not
    fire bombing, that's ok.  No, it's not
    property damage that's ok. No, it's not
    arson that's ok.  See fire bombing listed above.
    killing that's ok. Really? Getting carried away? As some would say, you've jumped the shark!
    rape? child molestation? Drunk driving? Holy crap randyt, It looks like you've been water skiing in a whole school of sharks! The Fonz from Happy Days would be proud!
   
     randyt, there are good people trying to make changes for the better with appropriate gatherings for demonstrations and protests against what they see as imperfections in the status quo.
     And then there are the out of control anal orifices. The ignorant band of what Grumpy describes as 'domestic terrorists'. They have no interest in a peaceful protest or for making changes in society for the better. I don't know what their agenda is, where they are from or who finances them. But it seems pretty obvious they are not aligned with the people trying to do the right thing.
     If your having trouble making the distinction, it would appear that the LEO community is too, and that's unfortunate. We expect better of them.



Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2020, 01:10:49 AM »
Grumpy,
    You didn't dispute my assessment of your 'disappearing' statement. Wow.
    You didn't answer any of my questions.
    You did reply with the rhetoric of a typical inflammatory AM radio talk show host.
    I understand your allegiance to the LEO community and your loyalty is commendable. But, there are a few rotten apples in the barrel and that is what the peaceful demonstrators and protesters are trying to change.
    If you have connections with the LE community, you can network to make things better. If you haven't because there may be personal repercussions, then maybe to much of the barrel has turned rotten. Scary thought ain't it.
    And nobody wants to address some of the underlying issues. The politicians that are to chicken to raise taxes like they should. Instead, they levy surcharges onto traffic tickets. It puts the law enforcement community into the tax collection business. $350.00 for a stop sign violation. And the reality is, the car stopped, but it was two feet over the stop line painted on the pavement. The ticket isn't about traffic safety, it's about revenue for the city. Of that $350.00, 50 is for the traffic violation. The rest goes for other social programs and city operating expenses. Almost every contact a cop has with the public is excessively expensive and it puts the cop in a bad light. And it's because the politician wants to be reelected. 
    Then there's the "Asset Forfeiture" laws. It's been seriously abused by a few of those bad apples I mentioned earlier. It started out with good intentions and on the face of it, it sounds like a great tool. But it has failed miserably due to the actions of a few greedy LEO's and departments.
    Grumpy, can we continue into the future the way we have in the past? Sure, but some things could be changed for the better. It wouldn't hurt.

    You said, quote "their aim is to tear this country down,  to destroy our history, our culture, our economy, our religious sects, they are in fact committing sabotage against this country, they are enemies of the state without a doubt,  they are organized, they are funded by globalist like George Soros and his ilk and supported by socialist democrat legislators acting against the very oath they swore to when they took office,  and they deserve no less punishment than the terrorist they support."

     You could very well be right on all those counts. I don't know. I don't listen to or watch the extreme left or right political opinion shows.  They  make inflammatory, anger inducing statements with no proof or basis of fact. They are there for entertainment and to sell advertising. They are very convincing and very good at what they do.
     You told me once that I was to cynical and I agreed with you. I also think you could take a more objective look at the programming your listening to and question where they are getting their information. Are their references valid, can they be cross checked with other sources. Do they even have references or is it strictly an opinion piece.
      One thing I have noticed with these people is how they talk. It's in little short staccato statements with regular pauses. Their rhythm of talking seems to be geared to build up trust and then they slap you with a conclusion to make you angry at the injustice of it all. 
      Maybe it's because I'm so cynical, but when I hear that start-stop speech pattern, I start to question its validity.
     If you would indulge me for just one more paragraph, I would like to play your quote back again with spaces for pauses in speech.
   
      quote "their aim is to tear this country down,         to destroy our history,        our culture,        our economy,       our religious sects,       they are in fact         committing sabotage against this country,          they are enemies of the state without a doubt,        they are organized,        they are funded by globalist like George Soros and his ilk         and supported by socialist democrat legislators        acting against the very oath they swore to when they took office,            and they deserve no less punishment than the terrorist they support."

     Dang Grumpy, your good,  have you thought about a second career in talk radio? I hear it pays pretty good in the right markets!   :thumbsup:
   

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2020, 04:54:20 AM »
Pete you remind me of a phrase about a Christmas Goose.

 :cheers:

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2020, 05:19:08 AM »
excactly and that is why the feds are going in and arresting people, because it isn't OK. i'm glad we agree.


    Is there anything off limits for a protester?   Yes
    or does anything go?    No
    What would be going to far? For the most part you answered with the following examples:
    assault and battery, that's ok.  No it's not
    fire bombing, that's ok.  No, it's not
    property damage that's ok. No, it's not
    arson that's ok.  See fire bombing listed above.
    killing that's ok. Really? Getting carried away? As some would say, you've jumped the shark!
    rape? child molestation? Drunk driving? Holy crap randyt, It looks like you've been water skiing in a whole school of sharks! The Fonz from Happy Days would be proud!
   

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2020, 10:03:27 AM »
Grumpy,
    You didn't dispute my assessment of your 'disappearing' statement. Wow.
    You didn't answer any of my questions.
    You did reply with the rhetoric of a typical inflammatory AM radio talk show host.
    I understand your allegiance to the LEO community and your loyalty is commendable. But, there are a few rotten apples in the barrel and that is what the peaceful demonstrators and protesters are trying to change.
    If you have connections with the LE community, you can network to make things better. If you haven't because there may be personal repercussions, then maybe to much of the barrel has turned rotten. Scary thought ain't it.
    And nobody wants to address some of the underlying issues. The politicians that are to chicken to raise taxes like they should. Instead, they levy surcharges onto traffic tickets. It puts the law enforcement community into the tax collection business. $350.00 for a stop sign violation. And the reality is, the car stopped, but it was two feet over the stop line painted on the pavement. The ticket isn't about traffic safety, it's about revenue for the city. Of that $350.00, 50 is for the traffic violation. The rest goes for other social programs and city operating expenses. Almost every contact a cop has with the public is excessively expensive and it puts the cop in a bad light. And it's because the politician wants to be reelected. 
    Then there's the "Asset Forfeiture" laws. It's been seriously abused by a few of those bad apples I mentioned earlier. It started out with good intentions and on the face of it, it sounds like a great tool. But it has failed miserably due to the actions of a few greedy LEO's and departments.
    Grumpy, can we continue into the future the way we have in the past? Sure, but some things could be changed for the better. It wouldn't hurt.

    You said, quote "their aim is to tear this country down,  to destroy our history, our culture, our economy, our religious sects, they are in fact committing sabotage against this country, they are enemies of the state without a doubt,  they are organized, they are funded by globalist like George Soros and his ilk and supported by socialist democrat legislators acting against the very oath they swore to when they took office,  and they deserve no less punishment than the terrorist they support."

     You could very well be right on all those counts. I don't know. I don't listen to or watch the extreme left or right political opinion shows.  They  make inflammatory, anger inducing statements with no proof or basis of fact. They are there for entertainment and to sell advertising. They are very convincing and very good at what they do.
     You told me once that I was to cynical and I agreed with you. I also think you could take a more objective look at the programming your listening to and question where they are getting their information. Are their references valid, can they be cross checked with other sources. Do they even have references or is it strictly an opinion piece.
      One thing I have noticed with these people is how they talk. It's in little short staccato statements with regular pauses. Their rhythm of talking seems to be geared to build up trust and then they slap you with a conclusion to make you angry at the injustice of it all. 
      Maybe it's because I'm so cynical, but when I hear that start-stop speech pattern, I start to question its validity.
     If you would indulge me for just one more paragraph, I would like to play your quote back again with spaces for pauses in speech.
   
      quote "their aim is to tear this country down,         to destroy our history,        our culture,        our economy,       our religious sects,       they are in fact         committing sabotage against this country,          they are enemies of the state without a doubt,        they are organized,        they are funded by globalist like George Soros and his ilk         and supported by socialist democrat legislators        acting against the very oath they swore to when they took office,            and they deserve no less punishment than the terrorist they support."

     Dang Grumpy, your good,  have you thought about a second career in talk radio? I hear it pays pretty good in the right markets!   :thumbsup:
   


  Actually, I have answered all of your questions,  you likely just weren't listening hard enough,  as for your peaceful protesters,  I haven't seen but a few since the early days of this insurrection,  I dare you to turn on the news and find one "peaceful" protester in the throng of black dressed and masked criminals who are acting like animals,  I defy you you find one video clip that doesn't show buildings burning,  store fronts shattered,  police vehicles wrecked or burning,  and explosions going off constantly from fire bombs and illegal fireworks being thrown and set off by your peaceful protesters,  just this week, four police officers were shot down answering a phony call for help in Portland,  a reporter with a press pass hanging around his neck simply walking on the sidewalk was stabbed in the back by one of your peaceful protesters in Detroit, and in Chicago a young black college student who was trying to get your peaceful protesters to stop hurling bricks and bottles at police officers was dragged onto the side walk and killed for disagreeing with your peaceful protesters.
  The time for peaceful protesting is done,  the point about changing policing policies and defunding has been made, heard and is being implemented across the country,  what we are seeing is not protesting,  it's an attack on law and order,  our values as a country, and our political institutions,  and it must be stopped.
  You asked if I had law enforcement connections,  does being a retired career police officer qualify,  then the answer would have to be yes,  I do,  and I have nothing but the deepest respect for the men who wear the badge,  I also find it deeply confusing that you are painting all law enforcement with the broad brush of corruption when the percentage of bad cops is very small,  yet when it comes to the vast number of domestic terrorist that are waging war against this country while wrapping themselves in the mantle of your peaceful protesters you are more than willing to forgive their crimes in order to excuse the few protesters that are actually legit.     
 One of the first thing I learned at the police academy some 40 yrs. ago was that communities get the type of policing they deserve,  if a community is respectful of the law and of the rights of their neighbors and live a decent life they are treated by LE with respect, understanding,  and kindness,  but if the community at large act like animals, they will be treated like animals in turn,  and deservedly so.
 You also asked what I thought about the anarchist being rounded up and arrested or "disappeared",  and you asked me if that was the kind of country I wanted,  so my simple answer to you is,  I believe that every anarchist, every domestic terrorist,  and every paid agent who advocates the violent takeover of this country, up to and including those  leftist legislators, governors, and mayors that support and encourage the anarchists should be rounded up as soon as possible and shipped to our prison base in Cuba,  then tried in a military tribunal for treason and sabotage against the United States of America,  what punishment they are given is of no concern,  the more severe the better including banishment from this country for the rest of their lives and beyond. 
 As to what kind of America I want to live in,  one that is peaceful, orderly,  and respectful of it's citizens,  one that is law abiding,  and one in which our political leaders lead in accordance with the rights and limitations set down in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.   
 There's also an old saying that bares a lot of wisdom,  "when someone is intent on making a fool of him/herself, don't get in their way",  so my friend,  have at it,  I'm about at my limit with trying to get you to use logic and not emotion as your guide,  I'm afraid it's not in your cards.    :shrug:
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 10:08:49 AM by Grumpy »

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2020, 02:19:46 PM »


How did the people you accurately describe as 'domestic terrorists' become, and I quote, "your peaceful protesters"?
How did I come into possession of these Looney Tunes?
How did you make the leap of logic that I condone, encourage and/or forgive all crimes by these out of control looters and vandals?

Can't find any peaceful demonstrations? Hmmm.
If all you watch and/or listen to is commercial stations, they are selling advertising and the sensational outrageous stories are what sell. Going off the commercial sites to maybe, BBC, NPR, Al Jazeera America, CBC, Irish Times, TED Talks, allows you to see what the rest of the world thinks. They are either neutral or to the left of the right leaning stations most of us use. A person cannot just use these exclusively, of course. A well rounded person looks at a variety of perspectives and then draws his or her own conclusions.

You said:

As to what kind of America I want to live in,  one that is peaceful, orderly,  and respectful of it's citizens,  one that is law abiding,  and one in which our political leaders lead in accordance with the rights and limitations set down in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

This is a great quote, suitable for framing. But it was preceded by:

You also asked what I thought about the anarchist being rounded up and arrested or "disappeared",  and you asked me if that was the kind of country I wanted,  so my simple answer to you is,  I believe that every anarchist, every domestic terrorist,  and every paid agent who advocates the violent takeover of this country, up to and including those  leftist legislators, governors, and mayors that support and encourage the anarchists should be rounded up as soon as possible and shipped to our prison base in Cuba,  then tried in a military tribunal for treason and sabotage against the United States of America,  what punishment they are given is of no concern,  the more severe the better including banishment from this country for the rest of their lives and beyond

Almost every person you named in this second quote is an American citizen and every proposed action against them is a violation of their constitutional rights. How do you balance those two opposing viewpoints?

Either you support the Constitution or you don't. It appears that you pay insincere lip service to the patriotic "support the Constitution" and then turn around and burn the document when nobody is looking. Which is it?

In a story aired by NPR radio yesterday, a black man was killed by a police officer in Portland a few decades ago. 1960's I think. A choke hold used to kill him was then banned by the city. The police started wearing T-shirts in their off-duty hours that said "Don't Choke 'em, Smoke 'Em!". The implication of course, is just shoot 'em. I appreciate dark gallows humor as much as the next guy, but taking it out of the squad room putting it on a T-shirt to be worn in public is over the line. A thinly veiled threat to the very well being of the citizens. Constitutional rights be damned. 

Wallowing in the mud of personal insults is unbecoming of a gentleman's debate. Generally speaking, the first one to throw a personal insult looses.  "when someone is intent on making a fool of him/herself, don't get in their way",  so my friend,  have at it, I'll take that as a personal win.    :banana:

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2020, 05:00:58 PM »
Pete you ought to review some of your earlier comments regarding this insurrection we are watching unfold.  It appears to me that the peaceful protesters you say exist are quickly taken over by the paid voluntary terrorists and those terrorists commit the crimes while the peaceful part of the protest dies off.

In an earlier post you advocated shooting looters on sight.  What you actually said is this:
"Don't get me wrong, I believe in shooting looters on sight as they come in the door." Now you say  arresting them with plainclothes police in unmarked cars would be a violation of their rights.   So you think it is fine to shoot them but by golly don't arrest them unless you got lights sirens and patches on your clothes.

You recommend news outlets that are anti-US or liberal to the point of being ridiculous.  NPR and BBC are just as biased as main stream media.  Al-Jazeera?  Don't make me laugh.  It is the State owned media arm of Qatar.  Here is a Wikipedia article on this stellar new organization.  How much of it is true is probably subject to debate but several of the events are accurate. 

I am not going to get into further discussion about this as I would rather be talking about making stuff and flintlocks or stuff like that. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2020, 05:57:08 PM »
Pete you ought to review some of your earlier comments regarding this insurrection we are watching unfold.  It appears to me that the peaceful protesters you say exist are quickly taken over by the paid voluntary terrorists and those terrorists commit the crimes while the peaceful part of the protest dies off.

In an earlier post you advocated shooting looters on sight.  What you actually said is this:
"Don't get me wrong, I believe in shooting looters on sight as they come in the door." Now you say  arresting them with plainclothes police in unmarked cars would be a violation of their rights.   So you think it is fine to shoot them but by golly don't arrest them unless you got lights sirens and patches on your clothes.

You recommend news outlets that are anti-US or liberal to the point of being ridiculous.  NPR and BBC are just as biased as main stream media.  Al-Jazeera?  Don't make me laugh.  It is the State owned media arm of Qatar.  Here is a Wikipedia article on this stellar new organization.  How much of it is true is probably subject to debate but several of the events are accurate. 

I am not going to get into further discussion about this as I would rather be talking about making stuff and flintlocks or stuff like that.

Well said Stan,  I'm done with him as well.   :cheers:

Offline windy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2020, 06:49:13 PM »
Back in the late 60's, I met some people who were talking about an upcoming demonstration--sort of a multi-protest; several complaints.  One of them said "hey, the cops are deputizing a bunch of loggers; they're gonna kick butt!  I said "I don't buy that--but I'll go see for myself."  I planned ahead, found a place out of the street where I could watch, and sure enough, there was violence going on, from both sides, that appeared excessive.  Then the police came in and chased all of us onlookers into the street (apparently I wasn't the only one) and once we were in the street, trying to stay out of everybody's way, we were beat on by the enforcement and told to F**K OFF by the people who wanted to fight the authorities.  I didn't go to jail, but it was a near thing.  Decided "no more protests".
A couple of years later, some guys at school were talking about this terrible government we were fighting for in Viet Nam.  I was used to the notion that we were more honorable than that, but, being a slow learner, I said "I'll go see for myself".  I walked into a recruiting office and signed up for 3 years, and volunteered for Southeast Asia (couldn't specify; I had a different guarantee).  They never sent me; didn't hear a shot fired in anger until I got out.  Eventually, I decided that the honorable people were the ones who went,came back, and then argued one way or another, but by the end of it, I was pretty sure that we were in the wrong war at the wrong time with the wrong leadership, especially in the pentagon.  At least, this time I wasn't exactly a bystander; I'd paid at least SOME dues.
Now I'm 75, and too P.O.'d at the government to risk hitting the streets without taking sides.  I see the jerks causing the problems, I see the protesters trying to exercise their First Amendment rights, and I'd love to be able to sort them out and hit the jerks with a paintball or something so they could get what they deserve, and leave the others alone.  Because THERE ARE too many unarmed black and brown people killed by cops; it's been increasing all this past year, seems almost like one a week for quite awhile.  And the violence I'm seeing from several sources (including BBC and CBC, among others) HAS BEEN coming from both sides.   But this time I'm not gonna go see for myself.
windy

Offline wsdstan

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Re: 1984
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2020, 08:19:37 PM »
Interesting that you say too many blacks and browns are being killed by police but leave whites out of the comment.  More whites are killed by police than blacks or hispanics according to what I read.

I acknowledge that is a misleading statistic as whites outnumber blacks and hispanics in total population so they are killed at a higher rate than whites but I don't know about what happens if you look a geographic areas where the % of ethnic groups might be higher or lower.  I think what this is telling us is in certain urban areas of the United States there is a high number of law breakers who get into confrontations with police. 

   

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Pete Bog

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Re: 1984
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2020, 11:17:39 PM »
Well, Stan's done and so is Grumpy. I guess that gives me the last word.

Two points.
First: There's a big difference between some looter coming in the front door looking to do you harm and a some group of unmarked police snatching someone off the streets. If you can't tell the difference, well, good luck.

Second: If you are not gathering intelligence for your personal use from multiple sources, you may very well be taken by surprise and possibly doomed to failure.
     The United States uses 17 publicly named intelligence gathering agencies. I don't have access to any of them. If they think it's a good idea, why shouldn't I? Listen closely to news from around the world and you can glean a little for yourself.
     Example: the Bretton Woods agreement collapsed in the early 70's, but a hold over is: the US dollar is still the international currency. A couple months ago Singapore Central bank proposed that a new international currency be found. Other Central Banks are interested. Do you have any idea of the chaos that will rain down upon our heads if this gains traction?  You won't find this on FOX or MSNBC until it's to late.
     Pandemic brewing in China? I knew about it in January, pulled the trigger on topping off supplies in February. The information didn't come from the commercial network news outlets. It wasn't sensational enough back then.
     If your avoiding a news outlet because it doesn't agree with your point of view, or you think it's run by a bunch of radical kooks, you are self limiting yourself. You need to know what the other side is doing in order to make informed decisions.
     There, got the last word. You promised. Thanks.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 1984
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2020, 07:38:06 AM »
Well, Stan's done and so is Grumpy. I guess that gives me the last word.


 LOL,  Your arrogance runneth over,  I said I was done with you,  not the conversation or the forum,  consider yourself ignored, an unrecognized entity,  what ever floats your boat or inflates your bloated ego.   

Offline randyt

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Re: 1984
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2020, 07:48:04 AM »
pompous comes to my mind