Where has all the interest gone ?

[Moe M.]

 I've been thinking lately about all of the discussions that many of us have taken part in on this forum,  more than a few of us are no longer with us, some have moved on, others have passed on, and some have just drifted away,  but some of us are still here,  we check in pretty often,  yet the light seems to have gone out.
 I'd like to be able to blame it on the Pandemic shut down,  on the rioting over made up racial tensions,  or possibly the political divisions in our society,  but I can't 'cause it ain't so,  oh I'm sure that all of us have been affected by the turmoil of the times,  all of us are probably suffering from a little depression at some level or another.
 But I doubt very much that any of it is enough to curb the exchange of information or the sharing of news good or bad that we all used to do with a passion around here,  I believe that some of us still enjoy cooking, we used to share recipes all the time,  I still make Smoke Walker's depression era chocolate recipe and enjoy his southern sweet tea recipe,  Wolfy's  home made sourdough recipe,  I seem to remember that my cornbread went over pretty well,  and remember Woods Woman used to post a dozen times a day on different topics,  we discussed knives,  trapping, camping,  guns and shooting,  even Big Foot and UFO's were open discussions. 
 I could log on any time of the day and there'd be a dozen new posts or more from the time I logged out the time before,  I don't ever remember being the only member signed in back then when I logged in,  Max and the Kracks were always planning a get together somewhere,  Stan was and still is a bed rock member who can be counted on to post something of interest.
 Lately all I get when I log in is crickets,  most of the time I'm standing in an empty forum,  and I'm not throwing stones here, I haven't been all that active around here myself.     

 Does anyone still have an interest in trying to liven this forum up a bit,  lately I've been enjoying my air guns, doing a little fishing, and still shooting Trap,  I don't get out to the woods as often as I'd like,  but I can still contribute to most bush craft discussions, I love muzzle loading firearms and primitive trekking,  and I'm still spending time in the kitchen,  and I'm open for discussion. 

[Icepick15]

I share your sentiment, Moe.  I just looked at Users Online...two.  You and me.

[randyt]

I've wondered the same.

[Yellowyak]

I haven't posted here in a while, but just a few moments ago started a planning post for an upcoming camp for the Krac's here down South. I'll admit, I haven't posted here in a while, but I do stick my head in to see what's new with everyone. Myself, I've just been so busy with work and family life, I just don't take the time to get online and post. Hopefully with camping season coming up, we'll have more to share soon.

[Pete Bog]

Moe quotes:

From: General Discussion
LOL, Your arrogance runneth over, I said I was done with you, not the conversation or the forum, consider yourself ignored, an unrecognized entity, what ever floats your boat or inflates your bloated ego.

From: Food and Cookng
I don't blame your wife, those aren't my kind of vittles either, whatever book you copied those recipes from has some mistakes in it in my humble opinion.

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I hear Canada is loaded with responsible citizenry, maybe relocating there is an option

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I don't know xxxxxx and judging by his post in my opinion I'm not missing much,

From: General Discussion
Where has all the interest gone ?

Gosh, I can't imagine where it went. Maybe Karma took it.

Try starting a thread on a blade or bushlore subject and someone will ask if you did a search, it was covered 5 or 6 years ago, therefore there is no point in bringing it up again. Do that a couple times and you become a forum drop out. Add in a few personal insults and a little name calling for good measure and no one wants to venture in.

There are a few stories I could tell about having a moose as a family pet, or the summer with the pet skunk.
What it's like to have to choke a mink down with your bare hands because you don't want to ruin the pelt.
Falling through the ice on a snowmobile, or mounting an airplane engine on the back of a model T frame to power through the mud. I could tell a story of motorcycling down an abandoned road and losing a motorcycle into a hole in the road undermined by beaver. Shooting  a bear 25 feet up a tree from the back porch, by moonlight. Or how catching a bear cub in a gunny sack is not a good idea. But, why. Insults await should I venture there. So, listen to the crickets. They talk just for you.

[Moe M.]

Moe quotes:

From: General Discussion
LOL, Your arrogance runneth over, I said I was done with you, not the conversation or the forum, consider yourself ignored, an unrecognized entity, what ever floats your boat or inflates your bloated ego.

From: Food and Cookng
I don't blame your wife, those aren't my kind of vittles either, whatever book you copied those recipes from has some mistakes in it in my humble opinion.

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I hear Canada is loaded with responsible citizenry, maybe relocating there is an option

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I don't know xxxxxx and judging by his post in my opinion I'm not missing much,

From: General Discussion
Where has all the interest gone ?

Gosh, I can't imagine where it went. Maybe Karma took it.

Try starting a thread on a blade or bushlore subject and someone will ask if you did a search, it was covered 5 or 6 years ago, therefore there is no point in bringing it up again. Do that a couple times and you become a forum drop out. Add in a few personal insults and a little name calling for good measure and no one wants to venture in.

There are a few stories I could tell about having a moose as a family pet, or the summer with the pet skunk.
What it's like to have to choke a mink down with your bare hands because you don't want to ruin the pelt.
Falling through the ice on a snowmobile, or mounting an airplane engine on the back of a model T frame to power through the mud. I could tell a story of motorcycling down an abandoned road and losing a motorcycle into a hole in the road undermined by beaver. Shooting  a bear 25 feet up a tree from the back porch, by moonlight. Or how catching a bear cub in a gunny sack is not a good idea. But, why. Insults await should I venture there. So, listen to the crickets. They talk just for you.

  LOL,  And then there's that.   

  Geeze Pete,  why don't you tell us how you really feel about the forum,  when you're in a better mood of course, but in the meantime your stories sound pretty entertaining,  why don't you share a few with us,  break the ice, as they say.   

[Moe M.]

I share your sentiment, Moe.  I just looked at Users Online...two.  You and me.

 LOL, well you were never (as I can remember) a prolific poster to begin with,  but I did so look forward to them,  you and I appeared to have a lot in common, thanks for your reply.   

[madmaxine]

Okay.  So I dropped out for awhile.  I got sick of the drama
  Which again rears it's ugly head.
The kracs have 2 camps coming up.  One in GA called Chicken Stick.  And another down south at a favorite Kicco Wildlife Management. 
We're not dead yet.  Summer is the off season in FL.  Right now,  I'm sitting around a campfire in NC at our cabin.  We'll likely smell like smoke for at least a few months.  Headef down to the Nantahala River to run some whitewater on Stand-up Paddleboards
 Yeah.  I know.  Dumb sport
  But it's my sport.
Cooking in cast iron on an open fire
  Keeping the tradition alive.

[wolfy]

As the forum member with more posts than anyone living or dead, I guess I'll chime in on this one.      I kind of figured some of the forum members might be tiring of my intensive blathering and maybe it'd be better if I lightened up a bit.     Apparently, even THAT hasn't helped.

With the pandemic in full force and the numbers growing by leaps & bounds, I have been riding my motorcycles as much as possible.  I'm sad to say that is coming to a screeching halt sometime in the very near future.....they even have a rain/snow mix in the short-term forecast, so riding in Nebraska, South Dakota & Iowa will soon be this year's history.    I shouldn't complain.....it's been a good year on the bikes, but Stan's & my planned meet-up & ride through the Black Hills & western/northern Nebraska went belly-up because of the Covid situation.  MAJOR BUMMER for the both of us!     It's been weekly day trips for Heather & me on the Tri-Glide (around 4000 miles) and daily jaunts for me on the Heritage, which adds another 12,000 to the not yet final tally. 

Now that cold weather is on the horizon, I will have more time on my hands.  Other than the opening of the hunting seasons, there ain't much else on my plate.  Here's hoping that when the weather deteriorates members will have more time to chat.....or discuss the merits of Velveeta. 

[Icepick15]

I share your sentiment, Moe.  I just looked at Users Online...two.  You and me.

 LOL, well you were never (as I can remember) a prolific poster to begin with,  but I did so look forward to them,  you and I appeared to have a lot in common, thanks for your reply.   

You're absolutely right.  I don't post much, but I do read a lot...when the posts are there.  I usually check this and other forums several times a day.

Doctors made me retire back in 2015 due to back issues.  I stayed on sick leave for nine months arguing with doctors to let me go back to work.  They said I could no longer be a street cop (was on the job for 40 years).  Neurosurgeon said I wasn't a good candidate for surgery.  I can't even mow my own lawn.  Sometimes I can stand up kinda straight, most days not quite.  Docs said I could work a desk job.  I replied that there weren't any desk jobs open, and the department wasn't going to invent one just so I could drink coffee at the PD all day and draw a pay check.  I was going to run out of sick leave eventually, and accrued leave applied to my retirement, so I pulled the plug.

Neurosurgeon said that if I take a fall and jar my back, I might not be able to get up.  That pretty much precludes me going out in the woods.  If I trip over a root or step in a gopher hole, in about two years some hunter will find my skeleton....and a free gun.

Well, I was about to disregard medical advice and take a shot at hitting the woods.  Nope.  Right about the time I was almost ready to break bad, my wife had a series of mini-strokes.  She got rehab and after some months regained her independence.  The strokes did play hell with her balance somewhat though.  One night (actually 0130 in the morning) she lost her balance and fell.  We were in the den talking, and I saw her lose her balance.  I was sitting in my easy chair and she was standing about eight feet from me.  My back and knees prevented me from getting up fast enough to catch her.  I saw her fall on her right hip, and I heard it break.  Ambulance to hospital.  Surgery that afternoon.  Week long hospital stay.  Weeks in live-in rehab facility.  Months of out patient physical therapy.  Therapist released her one day.  Walked out and said to me that she wasn't getting any better, and she wasn't going to get any better, so she was being released.  At that time, she could walk with a walker if I held her balance with a gait belt.  Now, she has regressed.  She can't walk without a LOT of assistance...not even with a walker.  No balance at all.  I have to hold her up for her to walk (very slowly).  Help her stand up.  Get her in and out of the tub.  You know...the whole thing.  Hurts the hell out of my back.

So now, now I take care of the wife 24/7.  I only leave the house for doctor appointments and grocery shopping; and, if she wants take-out from a local restaurant.  Tonight?  Well, there's a roast in the crock pot as I type.

All the above to explain my situation a little and why I miss the activity on here.  (And I'm bored.)  Also, it's very uncharacteristic of me to post so much personal information online.  Not being able to go anywhere, I've been living vicariously from posts on this forum and others.  That and Facebook, and YouTube videos.  I have very little actual face-to-face contact with other human beings.

One thing.  Please do not misconstrue the above as ing or me looking for a pity party.  I'm not looking for sympathy.  That's just the situation.  It is what it is.  She's my wife, and it's my job to take care of her.  Thing that bothers me is, if she outlives me, there's nobody to take care of her.  That really scares the out of me.

So, how's your day going?   

[wsdstan]

Well I check in every day and more than once.  There are long stretches with no posts for sure.  I think the reason people move on is there is nothing of interest going on except some posts from time to time about a recipe, a knife, a hunting story, and so forth.  Pete had good stories when he first started posting but he went downhill quick with his arguing.  We have one of the best knot tiers I have run into and a few people post about it but not many.   

If one to were go back a few years and read those posts we had a lot of people posting and lots of topics.  That has gradually worn down to a lot of posts getting very little response.  I went through the membership list the other day and was sure sorry to see how many people no longer post. 

As Moe says, some have died, some moved on for reasons unknown, and I am sure a few got tired of the same old same old and moved on.  The old adage, you can lead a horse to water......., sort of applies here.  When someone posts and no one responds it is not likely they will post again. 

I don't know what our owner thinks as he doesn't post much either these days.  I know he checks in and gets the bots removed but there is not much else.

A few years ago somebody tried to get everybody to post on a project they would do or something along those lines and it died a pretty quick death.  No interest, life got in the way, and so forth. 

I guess it just is what it is.

[boomer]

Moe quotes:

From: General Discussion
LOL, Your arrogance runneth over, I said I was done with you, not the conversation or the forum, consider yourself ignored, an unrecognized entity, what ever floats your boat or inflates your bloated ego.

From: Food and Cookng
I don't blame your wife, those aren't my kind of vittles either, whatever book you copied those recipes from has some mistakes in it in my humble opinion.

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I hear Canada is loaded with responsible citizenry, maybe relocating there is an option

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I don't know xxxxxx and judging by his post in my opinion I'm not missing much,

From: General Discussion
Where has all the interest gone ?

Gosh, I can't imagine where it went. Maybe Karma took it.

Try starting a thread on a blade or bushlore subject and someone will ask if you did a search, it was covered 5 or 6 years ago, therefore there is no point in bringing it up again. Do that a couple times and you become a forum drop out. Add in a few personal insults and a little name calling for good measure and no one wants to venture in.

There are a few stories I could tell about having a moose as a family pet, or the summer with the pet skunk.
What it's like to have to choke a mink down with your bare hands because you don't want to ruin the pelt.
Falling through the ice on a snowmobile, or mounting an airplane engine on the back of a model T frame to power through the mud. I could tell a story of motorcycling down an abandoned road and losing a motorcycle into a hole in the road undermined by beaver. Shooting  a bear 25 feet up a tree from the back porch, by moonlight. Or how catching a bear cub in a gunny sack is not a good idea. But, why. Insults await should I venture there. So, listen to the crickets. They talk just for you.

No going to pick on anyone but I agree with the tenor of the post.  Reading through previous topics, comments, discussions etc there seems to be a consistent bias among some regular folks that leans in a decidedly political direction. Sometimes it's more subtle than other times but it is consistent.

Now, I'm not saying that's wrong or even that everyone doesn't editorialize to a certain extent but for those not joining the chorus singing the same tune the reactions are swift, dismissive and often insulting. And not in a fun way.

Folks don't have to agree. Even those with shared a interest in one area may vehemently disagree in another. In general our times are rife with division, anger and "alternative facts". Critical thinking seems to have been overwhelmed by confirmation bias and partisan dogma. What we are losing in the process is the bedrock of any discussion - respect for others and an open mindedness that makes discussion inviting and possible.

How and to what extent that observation applies here depends on perspective. For my part all I can say is there are a whole lot of places on the interweb where approved doctrinaire opinions on political stuff are practically a formal requirement for participation while there aren't that many relating to the topics his site supposedly focuses on.

There are folks here who have ideas, experience and knowledge that might be of real use to someone wanting to learn about playing outside.  I'm one who is open to that learning, for what it's worth. If I have a question or information about knife steel choices or canvas tents however, I'm not too interested in a dissertation on the evils of socialism or how this or that part of the federal government is doing this or that to "our rights" or why so and so is trampling on this or that part of the Constitution or the broad generalizations that classify a person as if others know heir thoughts or understand them to the point of passing judgement.


Simply put, if y'all want folks to play the you have to play nice. 

[wsdstan]

Good suggestion, why don't you ask a question about whatever and let's see where it goes.

[Sarge]

Good points, Moe. I?m guilty as charged. I once checked in multiple times per day, posted frequently, engaged in enjoyable discussions, etc. I cannot thank you guys enough for the encouragement and motivation when I began making knives and sharing my work here. I think I finished my first in 2013. Wow! Several of you bought my blades and provided positive feedback. Thanks again. I guess I reached a point where I thought y?all might be thinking ?Good grief! Will this dude ever shut up about his knives and Kephart and the Smokies?!?!?? Haha.... hope you didn?t so but I sorta stopped over sharing.

Another reason (or excuse) is time. As some of you know, I?m a police sergeant and policing has become a real sheet show of late. Critically low number of officers, constant struggle to meet minimum staffing needs with overtime. Most millennials don?t work OT so the same handful of officers - including me - work OT continually. I just got home after 14 hours today. A couple years ago, I was one of 3 supervisors on a squad with 12 or 13 officers. When I had a few minutes of down time, I?d check in on the forum. Most of this year, I?ve been the lone supervisor on a squad of 8. No down time. The same week the latest academy class of 18 graduated earlier this month - 6 officers resigned. No end in sight ... no light at the end of the tunnel. I?m not looking for a pity party either but it?s really cut into my goofing off time.

I really do miss you guys!

[wsdstan]

You are going through exactly what I imagined when I think about you and your knives.  With the Covid and the violence I figured you had about the same amount of free time as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.  No apologies need Sarge, and thanks for showing all of us what a person with talent and desire can do.

[Phaedrus]

I stop in pretty much every day even if I don't post. There's rarely much going on but I always check.  I think nearly all the threads in the Montana subforum over the last year were started by me, but if I don't post there myself there's usually not a new thread twice per year.  Hard to have a conversation with yourself, or at least people think you're strange if you do.

I get enough bad news in the real world.  When I stop in an it's just hard-right conspiracy garbage or pandemic related I just move along.  The Place That Shall Not Be Named has much tighter moderation which is sometimes good and sometimes but, but for the most part it's not constant political stuff over there.

And of course, some of the stalwarts have passed on to the other side, RIP every one.

[Moe M.]

Moe quotes:

From: General Discussion
LOL, Your arrogance runneth over, I said I was done with you, not the conversation or the forum, consider yourself ignored, an unrecognized entity, what ever floats your boat or inflates your bloated ego.

From: Food and Cookng
I don't blame your wife, those aren't my kind of vittles either, whatever book you copied those recipes from has some mistakes in it in my humble opinion.

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I hear Canada is loaded with responsible citizenry, maybe relocating there is an option

From: Firearms and Projectal Weapons
I don't know xxxxxx and judging by his post in my opinion I'm not missing much,

From: General Discussion
Where has all the interest gone ?

Gosh, I can't imagine where it went. Maybe Karma took it.

Try starting a thread on a blade or bushlore subject and someone will ask if you did a search, it was covered 5 or 6 years ago, therefore there is no point in bringing it up again. Do that a couple times and you become a forum drop out. Add in a few personal insults and a little name calling for good measure and no one wants to venture in.

There are a few stories I could tell about having a moose as a family pet, or the summer with the pet skunk.
What it's like to have to choke a mink down with your bare hands because you don't want to ruin the pelt.
Falling through the ice on a snowmobile, or mounting an airplane engine on the back of a model T frame to power through the mud. I could tell a story of motorcycling down an abandoned road and losing a motorcycle into a hole in the road undermined by beaver. Shooting  a bear 25 feet up a tree from the back porch, by moonlight. Or how catching a bear cub in a gunny sack is not a good idea. But, why. Insults await should I venture there. So, listen to the crickets. They talk just for you.

No going to pick on anyone but I agree with the tenor of the post.  Reading through previous topics, comments, discussions etc there seems to be a consistent bias among some regular folks that leans in a decidedly political direction. Sometimes it's more subtle than other times but it is consistent.

Now, I'm not saying that's wrong or even that everyone doesn't editorialize to a certain extent but for those not joining the chorus singing the same tune the reactions are swift, dismissive and often insulting. And not in a fun way.

Folks don't have to agree. Even those with shared a interest in one area may vehemently disagree in another. In general our times are rife with division, anger and "alternative facts". Critical thinking seems to have been overwhelmed by confirmation bias and partisan dogma. What we are losing in the process is the bedrock of any discussion - respect for others and an open mindedness that makes discussion inviting and possible.

How and to what extent that observation applies here depends on perspective. For my part all I can say is there are a whole lot of places on the interweb where approved doctrinaire opinions on political stuff are practically a formal requirement for participation while there aren't that many relating to the topics his site supposedly focuses on.

There are folks here who have ideas, experience and knowledge that might be of real use to someone wanting to learn about playing outside.  I'm one who is open to that learning, for what it's worth. If I have a question or information about knife steel choices or canvas tents however, I'm not too interested in a dissertation on the evils of socialism or how this or that part of the federal government is doing this or that to "our rights" or why so and so is trampling on this or that part of the Constitution or the broad generalizations that classify a person as if others know heir thoughts or understand them to the point of passing judgement.


Simply put, if y'all want folks to play the you have to play nice.

 It might surprise you Boomer,  but I agree with a lot of what you've stated above, but with a caveat,  I agree that most of the members here are on the right side politically,  that's a fact,  I think that most forums that are tied to woodland sports and hobbies have majority memberships of folks that lean to that political bent,  and many if not most are also people of faith,  most also are hunters, fishermen, trapper, campers, and those who are into self reliance. 
 There are exceptions of course,  some outdoor forums and organizations membership roles have a majority that leans left politically,  the Sierra Club, Outward Bound, and a variety of other Green groups, animal rights groups like PITA,  and environmentalist groups are good examples.
 Unfortunately for secularist the Constitution discourages litmus tests that preclude membership into public forums based on race, faith, ethnicity, political ideology, or sexual preference,  but the law allows privately owned social media forums to limit what kinds of speech can be used such as limits on discussions about politics and or religion, or other subjects that may incite argument on the forum.
 Most forums have such limits placed on certain subjects and understandably so,  however,  during times when the security of a nation and a way of life is concerned or the safety of society is threatened people naturally become concerned and in these times communication becomes paramount,  this especially true when the right of the people to  be informed is impaired by biased news organizations and social media such as Twitter, face book, and u-tube who are engaged in censoring discourse from one side or the other,  there are times, this being one of them when the limits on this soft of speech need to be relaxed for the good of the nation (no matter which side of the political fence you're standing on.
 However,  that doesn't mean that you are forced to participate in any or all of these conversations, nor are you forced to have to read any material posted on these controversial subject, nor does anyone have a Constitutional Right not to be offended by any such writings,  and if one decides to read or respond to any of these writings they do so at their own risk,  if their personal ideology is not in agreement with the majority and they choose to pose an argument in opposition they may find themselves having to defend their thinking or belief in the form of n argument,  and all that comes with that.
 This can all be avoided of course by avoiding reading any threads of a political or religious nature or responding to any posts that one finds insightful or offending,  of those statements that Pete Bog and you have included in your above post all were in response to argumentative posts initiated by Pete Bog and were not posted to further the aggressiveness of the thread, while I feel it's the right of any member to post on any subject he/she feels is of import to the forum community,  it's also the right of any member to avoid any postings or material that they find offending
and they are not forced to respond or participate in the same, but they don't have the right to stop me from speaking my mind simply because they don't like what I have to say,  as long as I don't break forum rules,  and in those cases presented the administration didn't issue any warning or negative points.   

 And as an aside, I did offer Pete Bog an olive branch in inviting him to share some of his stories with us as an ice breaker,  I also told him that I thought they sounded interesting and entertaining,  though you forgot to add that to your post,  oversight perhaps,  or was it intentional ? 

[Moe M.]

I stop in pretty much every day even if I don't post. There's rarely much going on but I always check.  I think nearly all the threads in the Montana subforum over the last year were started by me, but if I don't post there myself there's usually not a new thread twice per year.  Hard to have a conversation with yourself, or at least people think you're strange if you do.

I get enough bad news in the real world.  When I stop in an it's just hard-right conspiracy garbage or pandemic related I just move along.  The Place That Shall Not Be Named has much tighter moderation which is sometimes good and sometimes but, but for the most part it's not constant political stuff over there.

And of course, some of the stalwarts have passed on to the other side, RIP every one.

 That's not quite accurate Phaedrus,  That place that shall not be named has toned down it's moderation considerably over the past couple of years,  just as this forum tends to lean right so does That other one,  I didn't think you were interested in hearing the other side,  but if you are, and happen to logged into the other one,  you can find all the usual political and pandemic associated chatter and banter that you'd like,  you just have to know where to look,  and you won't find it in the General forums sections.     

[Moe M.]

I share your sentiment, Moe.  I just looked at Users Online...two.  You and me.

 LOL, well you were never (as I can remember) a prolific poster to begin with,  but I did so look forward to them,  you and I appeared to have a lot in common, thanks for your reply.   

You're absolutely right.  I don't post much, but I do read a lot...when the posts are there.  I usually check this and other forums several times a day.

Doctors made me retire back in 2015 due to back issues.  I stayed on sick leave for nine months arguing with doctors to let me go back to work.  They said I could no longer be a street cop (was on the job for 40 years).  Neurosurgeon said I wasn't a good candidate for surgery.  I can't even mow my own lawn.  Sometimes I can stand up kinda straight, most days not quite.  Docs said I could work a desk job.  I replied that there weren't any desk jobs open, and the department wasn't going to invent one just so I could drink coffee at the PD all day and draw a pay check.  I was going to run out of sick leave eventually, and accrued leave applied to my retirement, so I pulled the plug.

Neurosurgeon said that if I take a fall and jar my back, I might not be able to get up.  That pretty much precludes me going out in the woods.  If I trip over a root or step in a gopher hole, in about two years some hunter will find my skeleton....and a free gun.

Well, I was about to disregard medical advice and take a shot at hitting the woods.  Nope.  Right about the time I was almost ready to break bad, my wife had a series of mini-strokes.  She got rehab and after some months regained her independence.  The strokes did play hell with her balance somewhat though.  One night (actually 0130 in the morning) she lost her balance and fell.  We were in the den talking, and I saw her lose her balance.  I was sitting in my easy chair and she was standing about eight feet from me.  My back and knees prevented me from getting up fast enough to catch her.  I saw her fall on her right hip, and I heard it break.  Ambulance to hospital.  Surgery that afternoon.  Week long hospital stay.  Weeks in live-in rehab facility.  Months of out patient physical therapy.  Therapist released her one day.  Walked out and said to me that she wasn't getting any better, and she wasn't going to get any better, so she was being released.  At that time, she could walk with a walker if I held her balance with a gait belt.  Now, she has regressed.  She can't walk without a LOT of assistance...not even with a walker.  No balance at all.  I have to hold her up for her to walk (very slowly).  Help her stand up.  Get her in and out of the tub.  You know...the whole thing.  Hurts the hell out of my back.

So now, now I take care of the wife 24/7.  I only leave the house for doctor appointments and grocery shopping; and, if she wants take-out from a local restaurant.  Tonight?  Well, there's a roast in the crock pot as I type.

All the above to explain my situation a little and why I miss the activity on here.  (And I'm bored.)  Also, it's very uncharacteristic of me to post so much personal information online.  Not being able to go anywhere, I've been living vicariously from posts on this forum and others.  That and Facebook, and YouTube videos.  I have very little actual face-to-face contact with other human beings.

One thing.  Please do not misconstrue the above as ing or me looking for a pity party.  I'm not looking for sympathy.  That's just the situation.  It is what it is.  She's my wife, and it's my job to take care of her.  Thing that bothers me is, if she outlives me, there's nobody to take care of her.  That really scares the out of me.

So, how's your day going?   

 First off,  I'm sorry to hear of your troubles my friend, truly,  I will keep you and yours in my prayers,  In all honesty my year so far pretty much mirrors yours,  wife's been in the hospital twice with heart attacks , had an angioplasty to open up a blocked artery,  my oldest son has been battling for his life in ICU for three weeks with complications from a liver transplant,  I've been in and out of testing for A-fib, besides my PAD, type 2 sugar, glaucoma, COPD, emphysema,  and an arterial abdominal aneurysm, and bad knees,  outside of that I really hate getting old.   
 This friggin' lock down isn't helping my disposition one little bit,  I'd mention the pandemic and the political BS going on but don't want to upset a couple of our more sensitive members.
 On a good note I'm still walking upright, still shooting a little Trap,  and playing with my air guns in the back yard,  except for my oldest boy in the hospital all our seven children, their wives and hubbies,  our 10 grandkids and half dozen great grand children (maybe more, I have trouble keeping track) are doing great, no ones in our clan has been affected by the Chinese flu, all the kids are still working and the bills are being paid,  I guess I have nothing to complain about,  when asked how I'm doing my typical reply is "It could be worse",  ain't that the truth. 

[wsdstan]

I am really sorry to hear all this regarding you and Icepick15.  Getting old can be a series of ups and downs but it sounds like you guys are getting a lot of downs.  Prayers for both of you and your families. 

[Icepick15]

I am really sorry to hear all this regarding you and Icepick15.  Getting old can be a series of ups and downs but it sounds like you guys are getting a lot of downs.  Prayers for both of you and your families. 

I share your sentiment, Moe.  I just looked at Users Online...two.  You and me.

 LOL, well you were never (as I can remember) a prolific poster to begin with,  but I did so look forward to them,  you and I appeared to have a lot in common, thanks for your reply.   
[/quote]

You're absolutely right.  I don't post much, but I do read a lot...when the posts are there.  I usually check this and other forums several times a day.

Doctors made me retire back in 2015 due to back issues.  I stayed on sick leave for nine months arguing with doctors to let me go back to work.  They said I could no longer be a street cop (was on the job for 40 years).  Neurosurgeon said I wasn't a good candidate for surgery.  I can't even mow my own lawn.  Sometimes I can stand up kinda straight, most days not quite.  Docs said I could work a desk job.  I replied that there weren't any desk jobs open, and the department wasn't going to invent one just so I could drink coffee at the PD all day and draw a pay check.  I was going to run out of sick leave eventually, and accrued leave applied to my retirement, so I pulled the plug.

Neurosurgeon said that if I take a fall and jar my back, I might not be able to get up.  That pretty much precludes me going out in the woods.  If I trip over a root or step in a gopher hole, in about two years some hunter will find my skeleton....and a free gun.

Well, I was about to disregard medical advice and take a shot at hitting the woods.  Nope.  Right about the time I was almost ready to break bad, my wife had a series of mini-strokes.  She got rehab and after some months regained her independence.  The strokes did play hell with her balance somewhat though.  One night (actually 0130 in the morning) she lost her balance and fell.  We were in the den talking, and I saw her lose her balance.  I was sitting in my easy chair and she was standing about eight feet from me.  My back and knees prevented me from getting up fast enough to catch her.  I saw her fall on her right hip, and I heard it break.  Ambulance to hospital.  Surgery that afternoon.  Week long hospital stay.  Weeks in live-in rehab facility.  Months of out patient physical therapy.  Therapist released her one day.  Walked out and said to me that she wasn't getting any better, and she wasn't going to get any better, so she was being released.  At that time, she could walk with a walker if I held her balance with a gait belt.  Now, she has regressed.  She can't walk without a LOT of assistance...not even with a walker.  No balance at all.  I have to hold her up for her to walk (very slowly).  Help her stand up.  Get her in and out of the tub.  You know...the whole thing.  Hurts the hell out of my back.

So now, now I take care of the wife 24/7.  I only leave the house for doctor appointments and grocery shopping; and, if she wants take-out from a local restaurant.  Tonight?  Well, there's a roast in the crock pot as I type.

All the above to explain my situation a little and why I miss the activity on here.  (And I'm bored.)  Also, it's very uncharacteristic of me to post so much personal information online.  Not being able to go anywhere, I've been living vicariously from posts on this forum and others.  That and Facebook, and YouTube videos.  I have very little actual face-to-face contact with other human beings.

One thing.  Please do not misconstrue the above as ing or me looking for a pity party.  I'm not looking for sympathy.  That's just the situation.  It is what it is.  She's my wife, and it's my job to take care of her.  Thing that bothers me is, if she outlives me, there's nobody to take care of her.  That really scares the out of me.

So, how's your day going?   
[/quote]

 First off,  I'm sorry to hear of your troubles my friend, truly,  I will keep you and yours in my prayers,  In all honesty my year so far pretty much mirrors yours,  wife's been in the hospital twice with heart attacks , had an angioplasty to open up a blocked artery,  my oldest son has been battling for his life in ICU for three weeks with complications from a liver transplant,  I've been in and out of testing for A-fib, besides my PAD, type 2 sugar, glaucoma, COPD, emphysema,  and an arterial abdominal aneurysm, and bad knees,  outside of that I really hate getting old.   
 This friggin' lock down isn't helping my disposition one little bit,  I'd mention the pandemic and the political BS going on but don't want to upset a couple of our more sensitive members.
 On a good note I'm still walking upright, still shooting a little Trap,  and playing with my air guns in the back yard,  except for my oldest boy in the hospital all our seven children, their wives and hubbies,  our 10 grandkids and half dozen great grand children (maybe more, I have trouble keeping track) are doing great, no ones in our clan has been affected by the Chinese flu, all the kids are still working and the bills are being paid,  I guess I have nothing to complain about,  when asked how I'm doing my typical reply is "It could be worse",  ain't that the truth.
[/quote]

Moe and Stan---

Thank both of y'all for your prayers and well wishes.  You're right, Moe...it could be worse.  We're still on top of the grass.

My bills are getting paid, too.  Plus, house and cars are paid for.  Unfortunate thing is, wife and I had planned to travel some when we retired.  Now that we can afford it, it's not feasible.  It could be better, but like you said, it could be a LOT worse.

Moe, when I'm asked how I'm doing, my usual (almost always) reply is "Not too bad for an old fat guy."

[Icepick15]

It's official....I don't know how to quote more than one post at a time.  Gawd, I am such a computer idiot.

[wsdstan]

That is okay.  There is just a few of us reading them.

[Phaedrus]

That's not quite accurate Phaedrus,  That place that shall not be named has toned down it's moderation considerably over the past couple of years,  just as this forum tends to lean right so does That other one,  I didn't think you were interested in hearing the other side,  but if you are, and happen to logged into the other one,  you can find all the usual political and pandemic associated chatter and banter that you'd like,  you just have to know where to look,  and you won't find it in the General forums sections.     

I assiduously avoid those areas, Moe M.  There are those that live for the thrill of skirting the lines, that's true.  I consider most of the folks there and here to be friends, and that's why it's so sad to see so many people with so much in common bicker about the minutiae that divides us.  Everyone thinks their opinions and views are right and find it inconceivable that they might be wrong, I get that.  There's so much pure drivel out there and I come to these places to leave that behind, if only for a while.  I we're not bound by love for the wild places then what's the point?

I'm headed out for one last "summer" trip this weekend, and it might snow just a smidge but I'll still call it summer.  I'll meet a buddy of mine and while his political opinions differ a fair bit from mine it never gets in the way of hanging out around the fire.   Maybe I'll be back with a few pictures in the Montana subforum...unless we end up heading to his stomping grounds in Idaho.

[Moe M.]

That's not quite accurate Phaedrus,  That place that shall not be named has toned down it's moderation considerably over the past couple of years,  just as this forum tends to lean right so does That other one,  I didn't think you were interested in hearing the other side,  but if you are, and happen to logged into the other one,  you can find all the usual political and pandemic associated chatter and banter that you'd like,  you just have to know where to look,  and you won't find it in the General forums sections.     

I assiduously avoid those areas, Moe M.  There are those that live for the thrill of skirting the lines, that's true.  I consider most of the folks there and here to be friends, and that's why it's so sad to see so many people with so much in common bicker about the minutiae that divides us.  Everyone thinks their opinions and views are right and find it inconceivable that they might be wrong, I get that.  There's so much pure drivel out there and I come to these places to leave that behind, if only for a while.  I we're not bound by love for the wild places then what's the point?

I'm headed out for one last "summer" trip this weekend, and it might snow just a smidge but I'll still call it summer.  I'll meet a buddy of mine and while his political opinions differ a fair bit from mine it never gets in the way of hanging out around the fire.   Maybe I'll be back with a few pictures in the Montana subforum...unless we end up heading to his stomping grounds in Idaho.

 Do that my friend,  and if you can, post them along with a trip report on the general forum,  this isn't just for Montana members you know,  I do give you credit though,  I've always thought of myself as a hardy kind of guy but I get a bit wimpy when it comes to too much hot or too much cold, when the temps get below 60*F or above 90*F. I usually can be found hanging out near the fire or where it's air conditioned.
 I do enjoy hunting in the cold  months and fishing in the warm months,  but I am kind of fussy about sleeping out, cool is good,  humidity and bugs suck,  rain or snow is something I try hard to avoid if possible.
 Enjoy your outing and please do share it with the rest of us.    

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I check in almost daily.  Asemery usually has a new knot.

Icepick, Kudos for being a role model of a husband for us all. 

I hope all you old guys get to feeling better in this cool weather.

Alan

[Moe M.]

That's not quite accurate Phaedrus,  That place that shall not be named has toned down it's moderation considerably over the past couple of years,  just as this forum tends to lean right so does That other one,  I didn't think you were interested in hearing the other side,  but if you are, and happen to logged into the other one,  you can find all the usual political and pandemic associated chatter and banter that you'd like,  you just have to know where to look,  and you won't find it in the General forums sections.     

I assiduously avoid those areas, Moe M.  There are those that live for the thrill of skirting the lines, that's true.  I consider most of the folks there and here to be friends, and that's why it's so sad to see so many people with so much in common bicker about the minutiae that divides us.  Everyone thinks their opinions and views are right and find it inconceivable that they might be wrong, I get that.  There's so much pure drivel out there and I come to these places to leave that behind, if only for a while.  I we're not bound by love for the wild places then what's the point?

 You're right, some folks deal with different issues in different ways especially those that they find disturbing,  I know some people who just don't want to talk about it (whatever "it" is) while others want to share their thoughts and fears with others just to know they aren't alone in their worry,  personally, I don't like the division that has gripped this nation and it's people,  and having to talk about it is distasteful most of the time,   but I do it because I want to stay informed, and I want to feel reassured that their are folks out there in numbers large enough to make a difference.
 I'm not foolish enough to think that those who think differently than I do are not as believing or passionate about their cause as I about mine,  I also allow that what I consider freedoms and liberties to be subjective terms,  I believe that the Founders were right in fostering individual rights,  but my neighbor may think that the times have changed, that the population has grown so much and the world has gotten so much smaller due to modern travel and communication that the whole individual rights thing is out dated and the world needs to operate under collective rights in order to achieve equality,  I don't have the answer,  I do believe that taking an anarchist approach to change is wrong.
 All of us I believe form opinions and beliefs based on our life experiences,  I was born in the middle of WW-II, I grew up in the north east,  my formative years were the '40's, '50's, and '60's, I have experienced real freedom from government over reach, and I've experienced the growth of government that has allowed it to intrude on my life in a very negative way,  I grew up making my own way,  I don't need others making decisions for me based on what's best for someone else.
 Now I'm also aware that someone born in the later part of the 20th century or later and educated in a liberal environment, being used to and dependent on government handouts probably views the role of government in their lives much differently than I do and that's the rub,  I like being free to make my own choices,  I don't need or want someone who sees the world differently to make them for me or to force me to comply to their ideology,  on the other side of that coin we have a whole generation of people who embrace being told how to live, being dependent on government for their every need,  and living in a world where they don't have to work for what they need as long as they do what they are told.
 I'm starting to rant again, and I don't want to do that, just consider when you're preaching about the merits of suppressing someone else's speech because it offends you,  that the person who's speech you are attempting to suppress may be one who needs to vent in order to relieve emotional pressure,  just as people are different ideologically, some people handle stress differently,  it doesn't make them bad or wrong,  it makes them just like the rest of us, Different.     

[Icepick15]

I check in almost daily.  Asemery usually has a new knot.

Icepick, Kudos for being a role model of a husband for us all. 

I hope all you old guys get to feeling better in this cool weather.

Alan

Alan, I just take care of my wife as best I can.  I don't know about being a role model.  But thanks.

[boomer]

" You're right, some folks deal with different issues in different ways especially those that they find disturbing,  I know some people who just don't want to talk about it (whatever "it" is) while others want to share their thoughts and fears with others just to know they aren't alone in their worry,  personally, I don't like the division that has gripped this nation and it's people,  and having to talk about it is distasteful most of the time,   but I do it because I want to stay informed, and I want to feel reassured that their are folks out there in numbers large enough to make a difference.
 I'm not foolish enough to think that those who think differently than I do are not as believing or passionate about their cause as I about mine,  I also allow that what I consider freedoms and liberties to be subjective terms,  I believe that the Founders were right in fostering individual rights,  but my neighbor may think that the times have changed, that the population has grown so much and the world has gotten so much smaller due to modern travel and communication that the whole individual rights thing is out dated and the world needs to operate under collective rights in order to achieve equality,  I don't have the answer,  I do believe that taking an anarchist approach to change is wrong.
 All of us I believe form opinions and beliefs based on our life experiences,  I was born in the middle of WW-II, I grew up in the north east,  my formative years were the '40's, '50's, and '60's, I have experienced real freedom from government over reach, and I've experienced the growth of government that has allowed it to intrude on my life in a very negative way,  I grew up making my own way,  I don't need others making decisions for me based on what's best for someone else.
 Now I'm also aware that someone born in the later part of the 20th century or later and educated in a liberal environment, being used to and dependent on government handouts probably views the role of government in their lives much differently than I do and that's the rub,  I like being free to make my own choices,  I don't need or want someone who sees the world differently to make them for me or to force me to comply to their ideology,  on the other side of that coin we have a whole generation of people who embrace being told how to live, being dependent on government for their every need,  and living in a world where they don't have to work for what they need as long as they do what they are told.
 I'm starting to rant again, and I don't want to do that, just consider when you're preaching about the merits of suppressing someone else's speech because it offends you,  that the person who's speech you are attempting to suppress may be one who needs to vent in order to relieve emotional pressure,  just as people are different ideologically, some people handle stress differently,  it doesn't make them bad or wrong,  it makes them just like the rest of us, Different.?" Moe


One can appreciate the irony in your arguments so far in the quoted post and others preceding it Moe in view of the original posted question on this topic.     

One can also appreciate those of a certain cohort, as we are, may exercise the perogative of the elderly to rant sbout the many failings of those younger than ouselves while recognizing at the same time that's hardly a new development in human affairs. Some things were better way back when, many things were not. Some things are better today, many are not.

Maybe the point of the whole things is that progress without conservativism results in chaos, decline and authoritarianism while conservativism without progress results in stasis, decline and authoritarianism. Rigidly doctrinaire approaches on either side quickly become unhealthy for society as well as individuals. "That which cannot bend breaks" kind of thing.

Today, we face some unique challenges that, even long predicted by folks who study these kinds of things, are testing us globally, nationally and individually in new ways. We are still burdened with yesterday's challenges at the same time, of course. Interesting times indeed.


It is likely "the interest" hasn't gone anywhere. What has changed is people maintaining that interest have developed a broader view of our situation out of necessity. As interest in bushlore expands it can be seen as an interest that includes many different aspects of both our problems and the solutions. Those who like to "go fishing", for instance,  with their bushcraft easily recognize good water and the need to clean up bad water. It might still be rewarding to catch a nice fish. However, understanding that trophy poses a serious health hazard to the fisherman and family kind of takes some of the thrill out of it all. It does for me.

When I taught my little boy to fish many years ago I also had to explain why we couldn't always cook that fish over a green stick fire on the bank like I did when I was a kid. Collectively and successfully addressing that situation over many years required a  thoughtfully balanced approach of both the progressive and conservative. Today we clearly see the evidence of that success as good fishing waters are being restored and protected. There;s stiil a lot to be done.

Our probems, new and old, are complex, so must be our solutions. All the rigidly doctrinaire accomplishes is to factor itself out of the serious discussion. The predictable result is irrelavance.


Maybe the easy answer to your original question is that "the interest" has moved on because the presumptions in the format for discussion has become increasingly irrelevant.

[Phaedrus]

It's certainly not a desire not to "deal with it" and I actually love discussing politics, philosophy, economics, etc.  It's just that politics doesn't mix well.  For example we all know the cliche, well grounded in reality, of controversial discussions ruining Thanksgiving dinner, etc.  I've been told by a few wise people that if you want to be happy the first step is to stop watching the news.  I don't have a TV so that part is easy I guess!

Not sure about my outing, now.  My buddy that was supposed to meet me for the trip just called- his dad was just admitted to the hospital and isn't doing well at all.  We'll have to wait and see.  If things go well I'll just cut it a day short but we might have to try another time.  Maybe I'll just get a day trip in up to Hyalite if everything else falls through.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I check in almost daily.  Asemery usually has a new knot.

Icepick, Kudos for being a role model of a husband for us all. 

I hope all you old guys get to feeling better in this cool weather.

Alan

Alan, I just take care of my wife as best I can.  I don't know about being a role model.  But thanks.

Lots of years ago, I was getting a degree in Agriculture.  In an Animal Science class I asked the professor why the term Animal Husbandry was used.  He stated that it was because to be successful, one had to husband the animals.  To do for your animals as a husband would do for his wife.  To protect them, to provide for them, and to care for them.  Not just their minimal needs but to ensure that they would thrive.

I learned more that day than just how to be a good Animal Husband.  I learned how to be a good husband as well.  It is a commitment, a duty, and a lifestyle. 

Yes, in this day of throw away marriages, you are a role model.  Keep the faith.

Alan

[Icepick15]

I check in almost daily.  Asemery usually has a new knot.

Icepick, Kudos for being a role model of a husband for us all. 

I hope all you old guys get to feeling better in this cool weather.

Alan

Alan, I just take care of my wife as best I can.  I don't know about being a role model.  But thanks.

Lots of years ago, I was getting a degree in Agriculture.  In an Animal Science class I asked the professor why the term Animal Husbandry was used.  He stated that it was because to be successful, one had to husband the animals.  To do for your animals as a husband would do for his wife.  To protect them, to provide for them, and to care for them.  Not just their minimal needs but to ensure that they would thrive.

I learned more that day than just how to be a good Animal Husband.  I learned how to be a good husband as well.  It is a commitment, a duty, and a lifestyle. 

Yes, in this day of throw away marriages, you are a role model.  Keep the faith.

Alan

That is a beautiful sentiment.

Thank you, sir.

[Moe M.]

One can appreciate the irony in your arguments so far in the quoted post and others preceding it Moe in view of the original posted question on this topic.     

One can also appreciate those of a certain cohort, as we are, may exercise the perogative of the elderly to rant sbout the many failings of those younger than ouselves while recognizing at the same time that's hardly a new development in human affairs. Some things were better way back when, many things were not. Some things are better today, many are not.

Maybe the point of the whole things is that progress without conservativism results in chaos, decline and authoritarianism while conservativism without progress results in stasis, decline and authoritarianism. Rigidly doctrinaire approaches on either side quickly become unhealthy for society as well as individuals. "That which cannot bend breaks" kind of thing.

Today, we face some unique challenges that, even long predicted by folks who study these kinds of things, are testing us globally, nationally and individually in new ways. We are still burdened with yesterday's challenges at the same time, of course. Interesting times indeed.


It is likely "the interest" hasn't gone anywhere. What has changed is people maintaining that interest have developed a broader view of our situation out of necessity. As interest in bushlore expands it can be seen as an interest that includes many different aspects of both our problems and the solutions. Those who like to "go fishing", for instance,  with their bushcraft easily recognize good water and the need to clean up bad water. It might still be rewarding to catch a nice fish. However, understanding that trophy poses a serious health hazard to the fisherman and family kind of takes some of the thrill out of it all. It does for me.

When I taught my little boy to fish many years ago I also had to explain why we couldn't always cook that fish over a green stick fire on the bank like I did when I was a kid. Collectively and successfully addressing that situation over many years required a  thoughtfully balanced approach of both the progressive and conservative. Today we clearly see the evidence of that success as good fishing waters are being restored and protected. There;s stiil a lot to be done.

Our probems, new and old, are complex, so must be our solutions. All the rigidly doctrinaire accomplishes is to factor itself out of the serious discussion. The predictable result is irrelavance.


Maybe the easy answer to your original question is that "the interest" has moved on because the presumptions in the format for discussion has become increasingly irrelevant.

  That was quite an eloquent dissertation on the philosophical view of the global issues that some people ponder on a daily basis,  but it didn't address the simple question posed in my opening post,  it was however a clever way of introducing a liberal political issue (global warming/climate change) into a supposedly A-political thread. 
  I've been here since this forum had it's beginnings and I've conversed with most of the folks who have helped to make it grow and argued with most of those who did it harm in some way and I can assure you that very little of it had to do with the philosophy of global issues, critical thinking, or moral relativism.
  But thanks for trying.     

 BTW,  I think you should have let your kid cook the fish over the campfire,  I doubt it would have affected the balance of nature to the point of causing an environmental disaster, but it may have gone a bit further to enhance some father/son bonding. 

[boomer]

Moe, Thank you for the comment concerning eloquence - although I was only attempting coherence.

Perhaps statements such as " It was however a clever way of introducing a liberal political issue (global warming/climate change) into a supposedly A-political thread. " points toward an attitude that directly raises the issue of relevance? It certainly seems so.  Some may see the issue as political, most see the issue as scientific. Granted solutions to the greater problem will be political to differing degrees the basic science is simply fact based. As well all know "denying the fire doesn't change the heat".


The country in which we grew up during the 1950's and 60's has changed. A man with a high school education can no longer find employment that will allow him, as the single wage earner, to provide for his family, educate his children and work with the reasonable expectation his children will do better than he. With the ability to ocassionally afford a vaction and a new car that man may not have been rich in money but was realizing a life better than almost anywhere elese in the world at the time.  That HS educated man often built up a pension and, in time, could expect a reasonable life in retirement. Those were good times for some (not all for sure) but those days are long gone and the how and why doesn't matter. (Interestingly, the percentage of citizens with BA level degrees has remained pretty consistent since 1800).


The number of citizens living and working in urban areas has markedly increased since 1960 even as poverty has become increasingly greater in rural areas. Fewer citizens hunt today and while interest in bushcraft type activities is gaining popularity many newer participants will necessarily be urban and suburban based. The majority of itizens with BA and higher degrees are based on the coasts as is management of the national economy. The "blue states" support "red states" through transfers of annual federal revenues. Not saying whether this is good or not but that is where we are.


These are just a few examples of fundamental change in our society but societies always change. Where the issue of relevance comes in to play is recognizing where we are and the problems we'll always face or choosing to ignore both science and reality in general by clinging to rigidly dogmatic views on the way we want things to be by grounding every discussion in what amounts to simplistic fantasy.

BTW: I limited the number of fish we ate due to mercury and other heavy metals content of the fish. We still went outside and camped and all but I do pay attention to science even when it's not necessariy convenient.

Best wishes to you and yours and hope the best life has to offer is yours.

[Moe M.]

Moe, Thank you for the comment concerning eloquence - although I was only attempting coherence.

Perhaps statements such as " It was however a clever way of introducing a liberal political issue (global warming/climate change) into a supposedly A-political thread. " points toward an attitude that directly raises the issue of relevance? It certainly seems so.  Some may see the issue as political, most see the issue as scientific. Granted solutions to the greater problem will be political to differing degrees the basic science is simply fact based. As well all know "denying the fire doesn't change the heat".


The country in which we grew up during the 1950's and 60's has changed. A man with a high school education can no longer find employment that will allow him, as the single wage earner, to provide for his family, educate his children and work with the reasonable expectation his children will do better than he. With the ability to ocassionally afford a vaction and a new car that man may not have been rich in money but was realizing a life better than almost anywhere elese in the world at the time.  That HS educated man often built up a pension and, in time, could expect a reasonable life in retirement. Those were good times for some (not all for sure) but those days are long gone and the how and why doesn't matter. (Interestingly, the percentage of citizens with BA level degrees has remained pretty consistent since 1800).


The number of citizens living and working in urban areas has markedly increased since 1960 even as poverty has become increasingly greater in rural areas. Fewer citizens hunt today and while interest in bushcraft type activities is gaining popularity many newer participants will necessarily be urban and suburban based. The majority of itizens with BA and higher degrees are based on the coasts as is management of the national economy. The "blue states" support "red states" through transfers of annual federal revenues. Not saying whether this is good or not but that is where we are.


These are just a few examples of fundamental change in our society but societies always change. Where the issue of relevance comes in to play is recognizing where we are and the problems we'll always face or choosing to ignore both science and reality in general by clinging to rigidly dogmatic views on the way we want things to be by grounding every discussion in what amounts to simplistic fantasy.

BTW: I limited the number of fish we ate due to mercury and other heavy metals content of the fish. We still went outside and camped and all but I do pay attention to science even when it's not necessariy convenient.

Best wishes to you and yours and hope the best life has to offer is yours.

  I'm sure you know that we don't agree on many things political,  academic, or just how infallible science can be,  change is inevitable but it's not always beneficial, nor does it always have to be accepted.
  But differences are ok as long as they don't get out of hand,  I thank you for the good wishes and send them back at you.   

[Mannlicher]

Sometimes we just over think things.

[Moe M.]

Sometimes we just over think things.

   Well stated.   

[madmaxine]

My friend came up to camp at the land the other day

  I told him it was okay to burp and fart around the campfire.

...somehow that seems relevant.
 

[Mannlicher]

unimpeded and unabashed flatulence is one of life's great pleasures.
 

[wolfy]

unimpeded and unabashed flatulence is one of life's great pleasures.
 

You and Ben Franklin! 

[hayshaker]

over the last week or so i gifted two knives one a little paring knife i made and a deer antler handle flintvknapped one with a black/blue agaite blade. it felt good to do that again

[Moe M.]

over the last week or so i gifted two knives one a little paring knife i made and a deer antler handle flintvknapped one with a black/blue agaite blade. it felt good to do that again

   

[madmaxine]

Now how wouldn't I know wolfy would bring up some obscure paper by Franklin on flatulence.  He must be a kracaneuner.  And yes,  by golly he is.

[wolfy]

[Moe M.]

Now how wouldn't I know wolfy would bring up some obscure paper by Franklin on flatulence.  He must be a kracaneuner.  And yes,  by golly he is.

  LOL,  well you Kracks can't be too fussy,  from reading the latest posts by Wolfy he's turning into a drunk biker.   

[wsdstan]

and what is the problem? 

[Moe M.]

and what is the problem?

   

[wolfy]

Now how wouldn't I know wolfy would bring up some obscure paper by Franklin on flatulence.  He must be a kracaneuner.  And yes,  by golly he is.

  LOL,  well you Kracks can't be too fussy,  from reading the latest posts by Wolfy he's turning into a drunk biker.   

I know you were just kidding, but I am adamant about not mixing riding & alcohol consumption....not even ONE drink when I'm riding.  Studies have proven that even even a single drink or beer can slow reflexes!

[wsdstan]

That is true and at our age we need all the reflexes we can muster up.   

[madmaxine]

The day we indoctrinated wolfy into the tribe he was stone cold sober and a gentleman.  I dont doubt that he changed who he was for us


He did eat carbs tho.