Author Topic: COVID VACCINES  (Read 324 times)

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Offline wolfy

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COVID VACCINES
« on: January 01, 2021, 10:40:48 AM »
Yay or Nay?  :shrug:      Poll results become visible only after you cast your vote. :coffee:
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Offline boomer

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2021, 11:29:34 AM »
IF and only IF any vaccine offered has been rigorously tested through valid double blind methods and the results peer reviewed and published in valid publicly available journals then the response is YES.   

Unfortunately, in these times of "alternative facts", unhinged partisanship, conspiracy nonsense, outright disinformation campaigns and profit worshipping attitudes that approach seems the only reasonable course. Otherwise, I suggest caution.

One current vaccine appears to meet most of those conditions for scientific review.

This pandemic is nothing to be sneezed at and may turn out to have more serious long term effects than we can currently assess.

Our nation has the highest rates of infection and associated death by far. Eugenics based theories of herd immunity are grounded in prejudice and hate not science. Conspiracy nonsense is based in well, it's hard to say.

Other nations have been laid low by disease on occasion throughout history. Nothing guarantees we won't end up the same way.
 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 01:23:56 PM by boomer »

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 01:48:47 PM »
I'll take it for sure!  Having just had Bell's Palsy puts me in a high risk group as well so when it's available I'm on it!

Offline madmaxine

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2021, 03:21:40 PM »
I've been vaxxed with so much since I was a child and put so much junk into my body that really shouldn't have been in it, that what's two more shots.

Publix gave me a 10 dollar gift card to get a flu shot.  I think I should get something to get a wu flung du shot.  How about a 5 lb bag of 8 o'clock coffee?

And if I grow another leg or drop dead in my tracks... it's been one hell of a ride.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2021, 03:23:21 PM »
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Offline Mannlicher

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2021, 03:45:52 PM »
That Pfizer and other makers have been indemnified by .gov against all claims of adverse reactions makes me uneasy.
I am not making any quick decisions about getting a shot.    You simply cannot do the clinical trials necessary for proof of efficacy in the short time the vaccine was under development.

Offline boomer

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2021, 05:42:45 PM »
That Pfizer and other makers have been indemnified by .gov against all claims of adverse reactions makes me uneasy.
I am not making any quick decisions about getting a shot.    You simply cannot do the clinical trials necessary for proof of efficacy in the short time the vaccine was under development.


Manufacturers of vaccines were already indemnified prior to Covid 19. Been that way for a long time - only way they would play. There is a public fund maintained to assist folks with adverse events post vaccination. Some clinical trials have been completed and are undergoing extensive peer review.

Offline Mannlicher

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 05:39:51 AM »
your response is incorrect.  I spent years in the pharma manufacturing biz, and have many contacts still working in the field.  This is a cluster f, er, a big mess,  rushed tdo market for political reasons.  There is no recourse for patients that have subsequent issues.   
That said,  the likelihood of an adverse reaction is always low, and folks should look at the risk/benefit data,  then make a decision

Offline boomer

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 08:26:33 AM »
Thank you for the response Mannlicher. I certainly agree with the concerns about political expediency. Not saying that is the entire picture or that the medical science is flawed but in these times it must be understood the fact and truth are viewed by some as unnecessary obstacles to political policy.

If I'm reading you correctly we're making the same points. Perhaps I could have been clearer in mine.


The reference to indemnification concerned Pfizer's Covid vaccine being added to the list maintained by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which has existed since the 1980s. Again, not intending to raise issues of merit or the rationale why the fund exists or operates just noting that it already is considered a necessary common practice.


I'm in no way arguing against vaccines or diminishing the obvious benefits to individual and public health; it's just the opposite. At the same time we cannot ignore the disinformation, outright lies and numerous verified instances of deliberate suppression of fact based messaging, including disparaging science or scientists and firing them for not toeing a particular line, for distinctly political reasons - an observation that applies beyond the current pandemic.

If we can learn anything important about managing pandemics from our current situation (it is not the last pandemic we'll see) it might be that actual facts and the "alternative" nonsense each have real world consequences. In many years of teaching aspiring health care providers this particular situation was never imagined. I thought we, as a nation, had moved past the long discredted eugencs stuff. But for some it seems otherwise.

Offline xj35s

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 03:54:39 PM »
Gov Cuomo say's it's going to be manadtory. Sending national gaurd house to house. Those that refuse will go to interment/concentration camps. The world has already changed. On my way south and west soon....
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 10:22:32 PM »
Gov Cuomo say's it's going to be manadtory. Sending national gaurd house to house. Those that refuse will go to interment/concentration camps. The world has already changed. On my way south and west soon....

What is your source that?  He's made no public statement of the sort that I am aware of.

Offline Pete Bog

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2021, 01:32:56 PM »
Phaedrus
    My initial reaction is this sounds out of character for XJ35s. Is it possible his account has been compromised by an imposter?

Now,,,,,,Mannlicher on the other hand  :rofl: has been known to throw a verbal grenade just to watch the dust fly !!  :lol: :lol:

Offline xj35s

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2021, 03:23:48 PM »
Cuomo said it in one of his speeches. It is out of charector for me and I'm basically repeating what my wfe said. She's a part of the mass hysteria that's going on with all the conspiracy theories.

Here is the title 8 changes.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/a11179

I've been off site pretty much since I quit my job and took the summer off. Back to work driving dump truck now.
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2021, 04:10:59 PM »
Nice to see a post from you XJ.  Wondered where you went.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline xj35s

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Re: COVID VACCINES
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2021, 03:06:59 PM »
Thanks. I'll try to add some good content...
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.