Liberty

[boomer]

Made a mistake this afternoon and looked at the news. Never thought I'd see anything like it in our nation.  Not surprised I was surprised but surprised at the emotional impact.

Sometimes it seems like we're in for better days and then it starts to look like the end of days.

We'll likely get through these days one way or another but the price we pay may be unexpected and way harder to bear than we anticipate.

[wsdstan]

Where were you when BLM and Antifa were looting, killing, and burning?

[Phaedrus]

Where were you when BLM and Antifa were looting, killing, and burning?

That's mostly fake news but to the extent it's true that doesn't give these thugs a pass.  They should be machine gunned and their bodies impaled on spikes outside the Capital Dome.  This is pretty much what the Insurrection Act was written for.  It's stunning to see the Brownshirts out on the streets of America trying to undo an election!  To whatever degree One-Pump Trump can actually control those animals he should be trying to talk 'em down before they all get killed.

[wsdstan]

You must watch different news than I watch if you think BLM and Antifa actions were fake. 

[Pete Bog]

 To whatever degree One-Pump Trump can actually control those animals he should be trying to talk 'em down before they all get killed.

   Trump has been banned from Twitter for 12 hours and other social media platforms for 24 hours. That will make it difficult for him to exert any control in a manner by which he is accustomed.
   In a throwback to the Looney Tunes Cartoons, it's easy to visualize the President sitting on the edge of his chair, phone in his hand and starting to suffer withdrawl DT's from no social media access. Hallucinating snakes and little green men. Oh, the horror of no Twitter! Surely he can fix it with an executive order!?

     It should also be noted that some of the same protesters from Portland and Lansing were also at DC today. Some just like to stir trouble and righteous political causes have nothing to do with their quest for "fun". "Let's go out, act tough and be somebody!"  Enrique Tarrio comes to mind.
Oh, wait! He was arrested and banned from today's activities. But I'm sure his friends had fun in spite of his absence.
     In Portland it was "BLM and Antifa". In Lansing it was "COVID-19 restrictions". In Charlottsville is was a "Unite the Right" rally.  Today, in DC it was "Stop the Steal".
     A casual observer might conclude they are more interested in bringing violence rather than solutions to these gatherings. It's always the same people. Well, today, with all the cameras and law enforcement around the capitol it should be easy to identify and prosecute these people. But it won't happen. If even 5% of them are ID'd and prosecuted I will be surprised. Of those, there will be the usual whining and crying.
   Defense attorney's will be proclaiming, "Oh, he/she has a family, children, a church going pillar of the community. Plea bargain down to a slap on the wrist or maybe a swirly in the men's room. Finally they find one guy, out of hundreds, to make an example of. He's sentenced to ten days, house arrest, and a stern admonition not to do it again. After all, we must protect his rights not to catch the COVID in a jail cell. 
   Guess I'm getting: To old, pragmatic, cynical, disillusioned, all the above.

   Today was a difficult day to keep up with news around the world. Huge distractions going on.
Third COVID mutation out of South Africa, 501 V2.
Sputnik V is being shipped to Argentina, Russia has another toe in the door in our hemisphere.
Iran seizes South Korean Tanker, don't know the significance of that yet. It might just be a move to antagonize the US. 
Iran jacks up Uranium enrichment to 20%. That one may be important. Only one more step to 90% and weapons grade material. They have been trading with Venezuela for gold. US sanctions don't work very well against gold so Iran has a little trading power on the world market. That's great if your in the market for centrifuge parts. North Korea is hurting economically and may be willing to sell some nuclear weapons technology.
Hacking scandal of US assets by Russia. That may be of the most pressing importance. When this story first broke a week or so ago, the news stories identified "US infrastructure" as one of many US companies and government offices to have been hacked. The term "US infrastructure" is not mentioned anymore. If it referred to the US electrical grid it would be of the utmost dire concern. Our very existence depends on that grid. If you haven't read Ted Koppels book "Lights out" yet, it's worth checking out.

   Check the sun in the morning, if it comes up in the East, all is well.
   
   
   

[boomer]

It seems apples to oranges trying to and compare (or excuse) BLM and yesterdays actions at the capitol. In the first case citizens were demonstrating against the reality of summary executions and systemic abuse carried out with virtual impunity by a heavily militarized police force (quickly deployed to "contain" them in full battle rattle) while at the capitol the lightly armed Capitol Police were "overcome" as a mob incited by a mentally impaired chief executive with the primary intention of stopping the formal process of certifying a national election where a an overwhelming popular vote has been consistently misrepresented as "stolen" based on nothing more than fear, delusion and fantasy.

What we are witnessing is something else all together. It is nothing less than a direct assault on the idea and practice of democracy and the exercise of the popular vote. The "reasons" are based in convoluted fantasies, conspiracy nonsense and obvious lies yet the actions are destructive to our republic in ways we don't seem to comprehend.  The events at the capitol yeterday were NOT about the results of a single elction. It was an outpouring of fear and hate grounded in predjudice and projection fueled by the cynical manipulation of citizens recognizing the naton is changing to their supposed disadvantage.

Make no mistake about this post. I am certainly not claimimg things are going great or that we do not face serious problems and difficult choices in many areas. We do. Today, three of our states EACH have greater Covid infection rates per capita than any other nation in the world.

There is plenty of blame to go around and none of us, myself included , can just wash our hands of what we have allowed/accepted for a very long time.

There may be some issues where the views of citizens are never reconciled. That's expected. We cannot deal with it as we have in the past. But we can still live together and work together to create the kind of nation that may eventually more fully realize the promises of our Constitution. We're not there yet by any stretch but at least we can head in that direction. It's a choice we have to make today.

It is time to choose wisely.

[Mannlicher]

my guess is that most, if not all of the 'violence' at the Capital was anfifa false flag actions.  Remember Kenosha?  Remember Portland?  antifa and blm have a long history of violence and of pretending to be Trump supporters, and then starting the riots.  Folks are SO quick to condem so called Trump supporters,  but very slow to consider that the odds are it's not conservatives, but bussed in commie thugs doing the dirty.

[boomer]

my guess is that most, if not all of the 'violence' at the Capital was anfifa false flag actions.  Remember Kenosha?  Remember Portland?  antifa and blm have a long history of violence and of pretending to be Trump supporters, and then starting the riots.  Folks are SO quick to condem so called Trump supporters,  but very slow to consider that the odds are it's not conservatives, but bussed in commie thugs doing the dirty.

I'm not generally a betting man but in this case I'll take whatever odds are offered. I'm all in on this one.

IF there is any evidence other than far right apologias and disinformation fantasies it would be useful to see it. Watching the events unfold in real time however, it seems about as likely as the millions of fantasy "stolen votes" magically turning up or the sun rising in the west.

Understandable that many (not making any assumptions just an observation based in experience) who supported or accepted the unprecedented acts of the past few days will attempt to downplay just what transpired or create some wiggle room so reality can continue to be ignored. Even the most cursory review of recent events show the absurdity of attempt to rewrite hstory we just lived through.

But maybe it's time citizens start to look at our responsibilities a bit more seriously and set the blinders of partisanship aside for the sake of the Republic. The idea of a "A house divided against itself" doesn't mean to stand idly by or support burning the whole thing down. If we do not act together now that could be an outcome we will have to endure.

The last president of the current administration's party elected with a majority of the popular vote was GHW Bush. True, we rely on the Electoral College votes to determine the presidency outcomes yet it was only a matter of time before before long standing voter supression tactics failed. Is it ironic, the more obvious voter supression becomes the less likely it is to succeed?

Today there are plenty of venues pushing "news and opinions" that range from blatant disregard of fact to bat crap crazy. What they're selling is toxic sludge claimed to be ice cream. While it may appeal to a very narrow palate of what and who we are, messages of predjudice and hate rarely make healthy table fare much less desert.

[Pete Bog]

my guess is that most, if not all of the 'violence' at the Capital was anfifa false flag actions.  Remember Kenosha?  Remember Portland?  antifa and blm have a long history of violence and of pretending to be Trump supporters, and then starting the riots.  Folks are SO quick to condem so called Trump supporters,  but very slow to consider that the odds are it's not conservatives, but bussed in commie thugs doing the dirty.

Really? Your going to go with a "Plausible Deniability" defense? 

"I didn?t do anything. I didn?t breach the doors. I got shoved in. I didn?t mean to be there. Hell. I was walking around looking for a bathroom,? the man, Richard Barnett of Gravette Arkansas, told 5News, an Arkansas-based CBS affiliate.. Barnett said he was initially pushed into the Capitol building by the mob"

Yeah, right. Cheap excuses have already started

Ashli Babbitt tweets: "Nothing will stop us!"

I wonder if she noted the irony of her statement before she lost consciousness?

I suspect both these individuals, and many more there on Wednesday, would be offended to be called "bused in commie thugs".

[xj35s]

I Don't know how to interpret the above. Here's what I know. It's not much.

My cousin went down to D.C. to support turmp. I don't know why, I don't see the point, and his actions are working against what he stood for by the media.

He saw the busses of Antifa police escorted in. He has pictures that for some reason wouldn't send or upload. I hope to see them for myself. Rumers were "they" shut down navigation so nobody could find their way in. I'm guessing the system crashed.
I'm not really a suppoerter of tump(wife is) but I don't like any of the folks headed into office. I saw the video of Kamala saying "We are coming for every trump supporter, you will pay." That sounds like a threat you'd hear in another country. That scares me.

Money runs this country. Always has always will. I knew this country ended as the greatest nation as soon as I saw a single man walking his dog alone on a country road wearing his mask. I know my mother wore one because she had asthma. But there are too many wearing a mask where there is 0 risk. alone inside your own vehicle? I gotta wonder if they sleep wearing one to too, or watch T.V. at night with it on?
I'm up to 15 personal friends and family that has had Covid. Not one had much of any suffering. Gary Knickerbocker 75, 380lbs, Diabetic, in the hospital for physical therapy to lose weight to become mobile again, got it twice. 72 consecutive day's in the covid wing. survived, never went on a ventilator, and is healtheir now than when he went in. This happened in July and August.
I'm sorry. Been gone a while need to vent to you folks. School me on the future? It looks like we might need to learn chinese real quick, no?

[boomer]

" Money runs this country. Always has always will. " At least that makes sense and it's about time citizens get our heads on straight.


Covid and masks: Just because someone, anyone, "knows so and so who had Covid and did OK" does not do much for the hundreds of thousands and climbing numbers of folks who did not or the unknown number who will not. It's a good thing folks did well and some will continue to do well but there is no guarantee that will be the case. This is not opinion, just fact.  A virus changes in 2 basic way as it circulates. In one case the change is a "drift" and not necessarily worse. In the other case it is a "shift" and there's no way of telling what will emerge.  See it with Influenza all the time and now with Covid.  Like it or not it is simply how a virus operates and not affected by any opinion someone might have. Again, simply facts of biology and medical science.

The Capitol insurrection: The national election was NOT stolen. There is no factual evidence of anything like that on a scale to suggest it was. Period. Some folks may not lke the outcome but that in no way suggests license to torch the Constitution in an attempt to burn down the house.

The real issue: None of this anger or angst just fell like rain last night. it has been building for a long time and  seriously stoked by the current politicians and their funders hoping to benefit from persuading citizens that Down is really UP. It isn't. The wealthy, however that is defined, always run things. That's so obvious throughout history that it ranks right up there with Divide et Imperum. Working folks know we're not doing good these days. Jobs are not anything like they used to be, unions are gone, our kids and grandkids will have a much harder time than any generation before us and millions of our formerly "middle class" fellow citizens have been forced onto the dole by longstanding policies and structural inequities. And those observations apply to every citizen regardless of the melanin content of their skin. Things  today look more like the 1930's than ever before and may get way worse soon.  I see it based on fact and I feel it based on personal experience. We all do. We know it because we live it.


The hard truth: (Make of it what you will). Citizens with a bit more melenin, the descendents of former slaves, comprise about 14% of the population. While they are entitled to a voice, as every citizen is, they are hardly the problem they're made out to be. It is what they represent; a usually disenfranchised group that scares the rest of us - as intended. Their real role has been to be "less than" and when some citizens are "less than" they can and have been treated "worse than".  The structural changes in society since the early mid 20th century have led us to the point where WE'RE ALL LESS THAN. That too, unfortunately for us all, is a fact.


If we, acting as responsible citizens, do not put a stop the nonsense today what might come down the road tomorrow could be much, much worse. I have been to war and led men in combat. I can say without equivocation no sane citizen wants to see that again on our soil. The only folks who entertain the notion are those who will benefit from citizens turning on each other. IF they get their way they'll be laughing all the way to their off shore banks as their followers trample the nation. That too is a fact of history but not one that we need to repeat. We still have a choice. Interweb conspiracy nonsense, perjudice and hate is not servicng us well.

I love our nation and believe the Constitution promises something no other society in history ever achieved; the notion of true liberty for citizens and equality before the law. We're not there yet but the promise remains. For now.

At least I hope so.

[xj35s]

Good read. Thank you.

[duxdawg]

You are completely insane Phaedrus and boomer.
Your take on things is the exact opposite of reality.
Scary to think y'all walk the streets without adult supervision.   

Has amazed me for forty years that there are idiots gullible enough to fall for the pathetic lies told by the corrupt commies.
More than two dozen tyrannical regimes in the last hundred years have ruthlessly murdered millions of "their" citizens using the EXACT SAME PATH that America has been on for decades.
Does no one study history? Will enough wake up before it's too late?
Sadly it seems obvious the answers are: No and No.

[duxdawg]

The incident at the Capitol was very obviously manufactured, organized and funded by the corrupt commie democrats (and RINOs! There *is* only one party in American politics: the Big Government party.), acted out by paid criminal Antifa/BLM (over 225 Antifa arrested for the Capitol incident thus far), then over hyped by the complicit commie propaganda media.

They've been doing this for decades. Do try to keep up.
#FalseFlag  #PsyOp  #OperationMockingbird

[duxdawg]

I live very near Kenosha, WI. I was there during the riots. I was eight blocks away during the Kyle Rittenhouse shootings.
To this day there are still burned out buildings, piles of rubble where buildings had stood for decades, boarded up buildings, etc.

Y'all read an article, shake your head, then go on with your day.
We're still living with the devastation inflicted upon us by the corrupt commie State and local governments, and the Soros paid criminal Antifa/BLM rioters that came here from out of State. (76% of the rioters that were arrested are from out of State. In other words, the riots were a completely manufactured, or at the least tremendously inflated, incident.)

Fact: the governor and lt gov called for and incited violence. Then did nothing to protect us, their tax paying citizens.
At what point does a government become illegitimate??

By the way, Kyle is a great American hero.
There were more armed patriots open carrying firearms every night.
Wisconsinites are most definitely not like the people in Portland!! It was obviously headed towards a very bloody massacre.
Antifa/BLM got off easy. They're very fortunate Kyle deescalated things when he did.

[Pete Bog]

Dawg,
    You seem to know an awful lot about paychecks from Antifa/BLM and Soros. And, you were there during the Kenosha riots.
    (Whispers) "_{Was the check good or did it bounce?}"

    Carl Sandburg is credited with a piece of advice: "If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell."

    Sure is a lotta yellin' goin' on, Dawg. 


 

[Moe M.]

  It doesn't take long for a few rotten progressive apples to ruin it for a whole barrel,  this place was so much better without them,  and will be much better after they are gone,  it still gives me pause to wonder why they hang on here where most of the sentiment is in opposition to their ideological views.

  Someone once said "You can stare at the road ahead of you all you want,  but if you want to see your future, look in the rear view mirror",  this country and it's people have been in much better shape and spirit in years past,  we can only hope that this evil infection that troubles us today exhausts itself and takes all it's supporting demons with it.
  Not until they are exorcised will we find unity, peace, and happiness again.    

[boomer]

I live very near Kenosha, WI. I was there during the riots. I was eight blocks away during the Kyle Rittenhouse shootings.
To this day there are still burned out buildings, piles of rubble where buildings had stood for decades, boarded up buildings, etc.

Y'all read an article, shake your head, then go on with your day.
We're still living with the devastation inflicted upon us by the corrupt commie State and local governments, and the Soros paid criminal Antifa/BLM rioters that came here from out of State. (76% of the rioters that were arrested are from out of State. In other words, the riots were a completely manufactured, or at the least tremendously inflated, incident.)

Fact: the governor and lt gov called for and incited violence. Then did nothing to protect us, their tax paying citizens.
At what point does a government become illegitimate??

By the way, Kyle is a great American hero.
There were more armed patriots open carrying firearms every night.
Wisconsinites are most definitely not like the people in Portland!! It was obviously headed towards a very bloody massacre.
Antifa/BLM got off easy. They're very fortunate Kyle deescalated things when he did.

Appreciate the attempt at humor. Sometimes the gallows type is all we have remaining. Unfortunately, these days some folks may not "get it" and like much other nonsense consider it makes sense.

I've always liked history and how our current events can be considered within that framework. What I think these days is that is that I was born into one of the most propitious times in human history. For that I am glad. The pursuit of empire and oligarchy however, has taken our nation down a road familiar in history. The events witnessed these days bring a sense of inevitability along with everything else. Where we go from today and what choices remain open to us I don't know.

 

[boomer]

  It doesn't take long for a few rotten progressive apples to ruin it for a whole barrel,  this place was so much better without them,  and will be much better after they are gone,  it still gives me pause to wonder why they hang on here where most of the sentiment is in opposition to their ideological views.

  Someone once said "You can stare at the road ahead of you all you want,  but if you want to see your future, look in the rear view mirror",  this country and it's people have been in much better shape and spirit in years past,  we can only hope that this evil infection that troubles us today exhausts itself and takes all it's supporting demons with it.
  Not until they are exorcised will we find unity, peace, and happiness again.   

There was another post asking why the activity on the forum had precipitously declined.  I seems the  questioner has supplied the answer.


Niemoller laid it out pretty clearly. In a similar manner we find ourselves in a situation he would recognize. Sometimes those exercising the liberty of speech may raise uncomfortable issues and point out inconvenient facts. Regardless of point of view or depth of passion this is the way of human affairs.


In periods of great change individual responses take myriad forms. Some are based in fear, some in hope. Some reactions are constructive, some otherwise. This is undeniably a time of great changes. Retreating from the challenges is an option. Coming together to face them is a better option. Like most options in our nation, the matter of choosing a course forward grounded in Constitutionally includes all citizens even if a few (or many) self identified elites don't like it.

Some may want to erase the memory of past actions in resposne top recent events. That's hardly unusual. Some may want to remind others of the hows and whys of our current crises. Not that unusal either and clearly necessary these days. Now, that may be uncomfortable all around but like the man said "Denying the fire don't change the heat".


And i'm pretty sure anyone sharing a love of the outdoors understrands the value of a good campfire.

[duxdawg]

Sadly Pete Bog you'd rather attack than deal with reality.
Doubt all you want. What I spoke is truth and reality.

Forty years of tracking, engaging and opposing the libtards has left me with little civility and even less patience for fools.

[Dabberty]

For f#ck sake, please start a new forum, name it "Grumpy Depressed Old Man" and the only rule there is to have no limits on the amounts of vinegar you can drink on daily basis.
This way we can keep it here bushcraft and bushlore related.

[Pete Bog]

It doesn't take long for a few rotten progressive apples to ruin it for a whole barrel,  this place was so much better without them,  and will be much better after they are gone,  it still gives me pause to wonder why they hang on here where most of the sentiment is in opposition to their ideological views.

  Someone once said "You can stare at the road ahead of you all you want,  but if you want to see your future, look in the rear view mirror",  this country and it's people have been in much better shape and spirit in years past,  we can only hope that this evil infection that troubles us today exhausts itself and takes all it's supporting demons with it.
  Not until they are exorcised will we find unity, peace, and happiness again.   

I have not heard truer words in a long time.  The evil infection and its supporting demons left Joint Base Andrews this morning at 8:45 AM.
You pointed it out most eloquently. Thank you. We're still waiting to hear about the apples though. 





Sorry Dabberty, the preceding interruption was a public service announcement, we'll now take you back to the regularly scheduled programming. 

[PetrifiedWood]

I'm shutting this down.  In this climate I think it is best that we discontinue discussing politics altogether.  Everything you say online is forever, and there are always bots crawling every page and archiving them somewhere for future reference.  With that in mind, I think it's best we all keep our posts focused on knives and outdoor pursuits, and let the politicians worry about politics.  Could they affect our enjoyment of the outdoors?  Of course.  But arguing about it with other people online will not improve the situation for any of us, and could be detrimental in the future depending on how things end up.

Please continue to enjoy the forum, but leave the politics out of it.