Friction Fire Fellowship

[04man]

Just watched your video LetsRock.  Well done!

[RBM]

If that was your first coal, 04man, then do yourself a favor and save your spindle and fireboard as a keepsake. My first coal was Willow on Willow and I still have my spindle and board. My video speed has problems right now that I hope to have fixed soon so I have not seen Jeff's new one yet. But I was able to see 04man's video. For some reason that one loaded and played better maybe since it was in Photobucket. Just guessing. Good job, 04man.

[04man]

Yes Sir,
Keeping the whole kit just as it is.
And to add to my wife's amusement I was thinking about displaying it with my rattler that I ate last night.http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/82toydude1/E8741CEB-4332-4E8B-A24D-582F50848585-4825-00000A0F6C6C078D.jpg

[RBM]

I had been trying to do a video clip using just Yellow Pine and Saw Palmetto for a firebow set. I have made fire before using just those two sources. I have had two problems getting it done. This time of year the fibers on the Saw Palmetto and also on Yucca are a bit more brittle than during Spring/Summer but are still usable year round. I had been trying to use a single 2-ply Palmetto stem skin cord using the standard tension method. Unfortunately seasoned Yellow Pine does not quite have a low enough ignition temperature for that. Almost but not quite. I have used the tension method successfully before with this. But at this time of year this means I had several broken cords while doing this. The Egyptian method was the only way I was going to get this done this time around at this time of year.

The purpose of this video clip was to show that it is possible to get fire with just Yellow Pine and Saw Palmetto only. The particulars of the materials of those two sources are under the video description.

[LetsRock]

Nicely done, RBM. With all natural materials too. All ya need is a cutting tool, some materials to work with, and you're good to go.

I think everyone's out practicing up so they can also be a part of the Friction Fire Fellowship. It's a nice time of the year to be out bushcraftin'.

[RBM]

Nicely done, RBM. With all natural materials too. All ya need is a cutting tool, some materials to work with, and you're good to go.

I think everyone's out practicing up so they can also be a part of the Friction Fire Fellowship. It's a nice time of the year to be out bushcraftin'.

Thanks. Yeah the weather is great right now. Outdoors is the place to be. Not working indoors.

[RBM]

Got a new video card and its doing good right now helping with the streaming speed and was able to see Jeff's video in not much more time than the length of it. Great job with all natural and lots of good points about cord, punk wood, and socket. Problems I have are deleted or edited out of my videos but rest assured they do happen. One fellow said I make it look so easy. I said thanks but its not easy. I wish it was. I also told him that he doesn't see the failed attempts and previous cord breaks that got deleted. If I included the those problems then like Jeff, the video would be "very" long. Jeff even cut this video down so he didn't show the gathering of materials and the shaping of parts or the cord construction. He has other videos that do show those things but the point is all the prep work takes time, add failures and fixes during the process. Depending on material availability that can be 45 minutes to hours for me anyway. It takes less time if material is available, more time if I have to go farther for them. As with the firebow, fire is never guaranteed even after all this.

[PetrifiedWood]

Looks good! I like how even the tinder comes from the pine. Nice to know you have enough meterials from just the two speceis. I wonder if cordage could be made from the roots of the pine tree and make it a true single source plant for friction fire?

[RBM]

Looks good! I like how even the tinder comes from the pine. Nice to know you have enough meterials from just the two speceis. I wonder if cordage could be made from the roots of the pine tree and make it a true single source plant for friction fire?

One source would be nice but Pine roots have not worked for me. I have tried them a number of times and they broke every time. Some folks claim Pine roots or Spruce roots work so mileage may vary. Maybe roots of other species will work but I can't say as I have only used the common Yellow Pine here. I have used Hickory roots, Willow roots, and Virginia or Sand Pine (some call them Spruce Pine) roots also to no avail.

[LetsRock]

Yeah, I often include my failures in my vids. The trade-off is the likelihood of boring viewers. I chose to do this as I'd get frustrated seeing other vids where folks make it look all too easy, as if they just did it in a first and only attempt. The problem is it's human nature to wanna come off having a confident and capable reputation. So personal ego can interfere with the action being portrayed, which is often misleading, like in the movies. The magic of video-editing, ha ha. Nobody wants to look bad in the eyes of their peers (or society) because it's unimpressive. They wanna look badass, ha ha. Even better if you're trying to impress your girlfriend/ wife, kids, or buddies of your virile capabilities, ha ha.

I also like to include my failed attempts because invariably I run into different problems. Especially, when working with freshly found materials.  In my last video (previous page) the challenge I had was one side of the spindle was rotted. It was an interesting encounter. My guess is because the dead branch I used to make my bow drill set was exposed to the Sun and weather. The top side of the branch was rotten where the under side was not. At the time, I was happy the branch was off the ground dry from any moisture. I didn't expect to have this issue, but I'm glad I did. Now I know, ha ha.

When I was making the cordage I thought the camera was recording when it wasn't. Hence why that wasn't in the vid. Probably a good thing as the vid was long enough as it was anyway, but as RBM mentioned I have a vid showing how I made the natural cordage. I linked to that vid in YouTube description. Or, you can see it here: Bow Drill Fire - All Natural (includes Saw Palmetto Prep)

One of the main skills of friction fire-making is overcoming problems (recovering) rather than successfully being perfect in a one and only attempt every time you wanna make a fire.

[RBM]

The trade-off is the likelihood of boring viewers. I chose to do this as I'd get frustrated seeing other vids where folks make it look all too easy, as if they just did it in a first and only attempt. The problem is it's human nature to wanna come off having a confident and capable reputation. So personal ego can interfere with the action being portrayed, which is often misleading, like in the movies.

It is not my intention to mislead anyone so I state that when posting the video on forums and discussing what problems I had and so on. I guess I should include a line in the video description about it so I will make changes under that info. Even though a lot can be learned from the failures, the goal is the coal so that is what I show rather than including a lot of extra footage and reducing retention time. Some folks might want to stroke their ego but that is not me and that is not why I exclude the failures. Friction fire is a humbling experience and I always want to be honest about that whether I exclude failures or not.

I have now made description changes to the FirebowSeasonedYell owPine video clip above.

[LetsRock]

I wasn't picking on you, RBM or suggesting you were misleading. Actually you were quite genuine. The majority of vids show just the success, which is what most people wanna see.  Trying to do it in a timely manner without losing the interest of the viewer is always a challenge. Being a film-maker (and video-editing) is also a challenge in itself. I'm guilty of making quick success vids myself. It's not necessarily wrong to do and some folks will forget to mention that it took 10 tries before success (myself included). Either on purpose or because they got so caught up in the excitement of finally being successful. It's a balancing act of trade-offs. But, other folks can be real bad about it. Like this guy:



Here's a spoof:

[RBM]

I wasn't picking on you, RBM or suggesting you were misleading. Actually you were quite genuine. The majority of vids show just the success, which is what most people wanna see.  Trying to do it in a timely manner without losing the interest of the viewer is always a challenge. Being a film-maker (and video-editing) is also a challenge in itself. I'm guilty of making quick success vids myself. It's not necessarily wrong to do and some folks will forget to mention that it took 10 tries before success (myself included). Either on purpose or because they got so caught up in the excitement of finally being successful. It's a balancing act of trade-offs.

Oh, I know you weren't picking on me or suggesting I was misleading. I know the ones you are talking about. But you did bring up a valid point and I saw the need to make changes on my videos addressing that point.

Yeah, typically I just state what is there on the video, not what isn't there or anything else.

[JTD]

Wow... like six months ago I said I'd get on board with completing this.   

As always I've slacked, and time flew by!

Well I've put together a ferro rod free BC fire fun kit.  So I'm gonna put some time in this week and knock out a friction fire. 

Cough Cough.. I have keep up on flint and steel fire starting, but I see there is no FSFF!   

Well.. until I get my FFFlame.  I'll muddy up this thread with porn pics of my new little kit!






The enemy!


TBC...

[RBM]

The enemy!

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious" - Sun-tzu

While I am no fan of Sun-tzu, there is truth there being a two-way street. Both for knowing friction fire and for knowing yourself. Don't think of friction fire as the enemy but as a challenge for yourself. Determination that never gives up no matter how frustrated it can make you. Keep at it and you will get it. Failure is a part of everything we do but we don't let it get us down. A lot of times success can be measured in failures. Without failures we don't learn what went wrong and/or what we did wrong. It took a year of failures of about at least once every week before I got my first coal....on my own (without an instructor). Another year of continuous practice before the coals formed more consistently.

Here is the theme song.

[JTD]

Decided not to slack,  so I spent the last hour making a friction fire... many many failures, but hopefully I get a FFF stamp of approval!

Soo here it is..   

Planned on starting off with a Mullen/ clamatus hand drill set, that woodsrunner taught me how to use.



Well after getting some smoke and adding some pressure I snapped my first mullen twig.


 
So I started another hole with a smaller stick, got some smoke and again put to much down pressure.. cracked mullen II!



Decided to switch it up. 

Took out my cotton wood bow drill set, and made a hasty bow.



Found I couldn't put enough down pressure on my herth board with the little rock bearing block I was using, got to wobbly.  Also the board was to thick so I chopped it down, and tried again.



Still the small size of my bearing block rock sucked!  So I tossed it for a hasty chunk of wood with wax.



That was the ticket!







Even with a good coal, the frayed jute twine I was attempting to blow light didn't go..  Didn't help I was trying to take pics at the same time. 

Coal one Fail!

So back to the bow drill..









Tossed in some char cloth to seal the deal on this flame!





Added some stank breath and.. walla! 



pitchwood



Feather sticks and twigs



Fire!



Took it outside to burn out since the wind was gusting around 25mph. 



It burned on, and didn't blow out.. so I'd say mission complete!


 
Thanks for the challenge!

JTD
 

[RBM]

  Awesome, switched sets to the lower ignition temperature wood or the set you are more familiar with and you made adjustments to reduce friction at the socket. Socket to hand fit and the socket hole itself can for sure make a difference also.

[PetrifiedWood]

Cool, I like the idea of wax as a bearing block lubricant.

[JTD]

Thanks RBM for the motivation!! 
Honestly I usually do better with the hand drill, or at least I like it more. Had a surgery in my ankle so the bow drill position is not my favorite.  Need to start practicing FF more often for sure.. 
 
PW
Wax is awesome for bearing block lube, but it can suck if you put your spindle in the wrong way..   

I noticed I have a sweet new title under my user name. Woohooo! Thnx

   

[RBM]

Thanks RBM for the motivation!!
Honestly I usually do better with the hand drill, or at least I like it more. Had a surgery in my ankle so the bow drill position is not my favorite.  Need to start practicing FF more often for sure.. 

I knew you could do it. If you are having problems with the standard body position of the firebow, then try to make an adjustment there that feels more comfortable. You need all the help you can get so being in a painful position is not good for going the distance. Just make sure you don't break the main positional rule. That is maintaining the straight line running down from your shoulder through the spindle to the board, and also keeping the socket tight against the leg preventing spindle wobble. Other than that I get into whatever position is most comfortable at the time. Sometimes the standard position or I may squat or sit on my other foot with my shoulder just above or resting on top of my knee but directly over the socket and spindle to keep the straight line.

Here I am sitting on my other foot but my shoulder is resting on my knee directly over the spindle. This position actually pushes my leg forward up against the socket. At least I hope that is what I am doing. LOL This one is Yucca on Yucca by the way. Conditions were dry so I got a quick coal under one minute. Had it been wet or humid it may have been much longer or I may not have even gotten a coal depending on the condition of the Yucca stalk. I had failures using old soft or rotting stalks. I got the coal once I had solid stalk to use.

[PetrifiedWood]

Attempted hand drill today with mullein drill and juniper hearth, didn't try too hard, but failed to get even brown dust. the difference in hardness between the two materials is too great for it to work. Will need a softer hearth material. Also, the harder shell of the mullein stalk tends to cause the drill to wear unevenly toward one side of the drill, making it wobble in the divot. I think it is important to make sure the divot hole is initially hollowed out larger than the diameter of the stalk to make sure all of the harder mullein stalk shell is in contact with the inside of the divot to prevent this.

[PetrifiedWood]

Just added a link in the first post of this thread to view the FFF member list.

Friction Fire Fellowship Members

If your name does not appear in this list, it is because your primary member group is set to something else, like moderator, supporting member, etc. You are still a member of the FFF, but your profile will have it listed as an "additional group".

[04man]

I googled "mullien" so I could give it a try. There were so many pics for it I was wondering if it(mullien) was a general name. Like "pine".

[04man]

Did I read that having the triple F rocker on the patch and shirt was a bad idea due to the idea of "elitism"? I think having it is a unique idea and is promoting the idea of harnessing the primitive that has brought us together. I haven't visited many other sites but they seem as though the common interest brings HUMBLE people together. Now isn't friction fire making a humbling experience?

Seeing that someone belongs to the Fellowship tells me quite a bit. That the person has achieved it utilizing different woods and fungi.......is Yoda-esque.

[PetrifiedWood]

I googled "mullien" so I could give it a try. There were so many pics for it I was wondering if it(mullien) was a general name. Like "pine".

I think it's a common name that a lot of people confuse for other things.

The plant has a 2 year growth cycle. The first year, it is a basal rosette of large, furry, soft leaves (which make a better TP than most leaves). In the second year it sends up a flower spike on a stalk that can reach up to 4 feet tall, though is typically between 2 and 3 feet. The flowers are clustered at the top of the spike and are yellow.

When this stalk dies and dries up, it has a woody outer layer, and an inner pith the consistency of hardened cork.

[PetrifiedWood]

Did I read that having the triple F rocker on the patch and shirt was a bad idea due to the idea of "elitism"? I think having it is a unique idea and is promoting the idea of harnessing the primitive that has brought us together. I haven't visited many other sites but they seem as though the common interest brings HUMBLE people together. Now isn't friction fire making a humbling experience?

Seeing that someone belongs to the Fellowship tells me quite a bit. That the person has achieved it utilizing different woods and fungi.......is Yoda-esque.

There is no official B&B FFF rocker, but there is also nothing to prevent members from having them made and sewing them on either.

[woodsrunner]

I agree with Letsrock...i think its important to show our failures along with our successes...
...and i would show mine too...if i had any...

[lgm]

I don't have a video. Will pictures do?

[upthecreek]

I don't have a video. Will pictures do?

Post them up...if there's a lighter or firesteel in the pics...we may question!

Creek

[BigHat]

did someone request failures? here ya go!!!

[PetrifiedWood]

Thanks for posting them. It illustrates just how difficult it can be sometimes, even with tinder dry enough to take a firesteel spark like that, if you can't get an ember...

You made the hatchet work look easy, though!

[LetsRock]

Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

[RBM]

Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

I haven't broken them but I have thrown them and started all over again. lol Its what happens when I don't get the right materials and parts in the first place and I don't do it right in the first place.

[BigHat]

Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

nothing like failing to fail right. is that even possible?

[LetsRock]

Excellent effort, Bighat! You may not think so, but swearing does help, ha ha. Although, the proper way to fail is to break the bow over your knee and throw each of the bow drill components as far as you can as you let out a loud roar of frustration. Now, get out there and do it right, ha ha.

nothing like failing to fail right. is that even possible?

If anything, it can add to the entertainment value, ha ha. If you can, convince an over-weight woman wearing too much make-up to prevent success then you might have the makings of a reality-show, ha ha.

[lgm]

Here I have a cedar and a willow set.

A cole in jute twine tendar

One in cottonwood inner bark

Fire!

My bow is willow with a little flex.
I like cottonwood the best one branch will give you everything you need hearth, spindel & tendar.

[PetrifiedWood]

Well done, Igm!  That's a nice bearing block you have, looks like it's been used a time or two.

[lgm]

Thank you. The bearing block was giving to me. It is fired clay. Works great. I guess it has seen about 20 coals. I try and make 1 or 2 coals a week. I like to play with  different wood  see what works.

[Dano]

I have a question for you all- I got 3 Mullein stalks over the weekend and am having no luck at all.  I've been able to get embers with red cedar hearth and white maple drill before and have used that mostly.  Not so good with the Mullein though.

I'm also trying this as a hand drill set, just FYI.  Anyway, what I got was near a reservoir if that matters, but it feels dry.  I put it next to a wood stove for two days to be sure.  I'd post some pictures, but left my camera in the truck and it's only 9 degrees out...

I cut the stalk a couple inches above the snow line, scrapped off the leafs and fuzz and removed most of the dark (brown) outer layer.  It has a really pithy inside, but it seems to harden as I drill.  The problems I'm having are that it won't burn in at all.  It will drill, but no smoke, no ash, not even a dark color where I drill.  I get heat, but not enough.  I'm thinking of trying it as an Eqyptian drill set because it would break as a bow drill set.

So it's new to me, it's winter here, the stalks are dark brown on the outside, very light and pithy on the inner part, very easy to break, cuts very easily...and that's about all I can think of to tell you. 

I'm wondering if it matters what season you harvest the stalk, if I need to harvest it closer to the ground, is there more than one type of Mullein (maybe I have the wrong type) as I've seen it more green on the stalk during the summer months out here...

I did get a fairly good amount of what I'm guessing are the seed pods (about the size of a sweet pea) that I'll plant here if it's the right kind.  It's kinda hard to find close by my home area.  The seeds are all the way at the top colored part, above the leaves.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks!

[Dano]

The other reason I'd like to grow it is because I've read the leaves can be dried and then crushed into a powder to make a tea with.  The tea is supposed to be really good for use as an anti inflammatory.   I've also read you can smoke the dried leaves and it's supposed to be really good for bronchitis.   The main things I'm going for are as a drill set and the tea.

Thanks again!

[PetrifiedWood]

Dano, I tried is as a hand drill, not wih a bow. Same results, not even brown dust.

[Dano]

Dano, I tried is as a hand drill, not wih a bow. Same results, not even brown dust.

At least we're not paddling alone then LOL!

[wolfy]

The other reason I'd like to grow it is because I've read the leaves can be dried and then crushed into a powder to make a tea with.  The tea is supposed to be really good for use as an anti inflammatory.   I've also read you can smoke the dried leaves and it's supposed to be really good for bronchitis.   The main things I'm going for are as a drill set and the tea.

Thanks again!

I haven't tried the tea, but I did try to loosen some severe chest congestion by smoking some of the leaves ONE time..........thoug ht I was going to end up the emergency room 

[Dano]

[size=78%]I haven't tried the tea, but I did try to loosen some severe chest congestion by smoking some of the leaves ONE time..........thoug[/size][size=78%]ht I was going to end up the emergency room [/size]

Ouch, Blah....Ugh!


I've been trying to read up on it-so far it seems as if Native Americans (hope that's PC) smoked it quite a bit for chest ailments.  It's also listed in a homeopathic medicine manual as a nicotine withdrawl aid if smoked as well.


I'd be happy to just get an ember!

[RBM]

I have a question for you all- I got 3 Mullein stalks over the weekend and am having no luck at all.  I've been able to get embers with red cedar hearth and white maple drill before and have used that mostly.  Not so good with the Mullein though.

I'm also trying this as a hand drill set, just FYI.  Anyway, what I got was near a reservoir if that matters, but it feels dry.  I put it next to a wood stove for two days to be sure.  I'd post some pictures, but left my camera in the truck and it's only 9 degrees out...

I cut the stalk a couple inches above the snow line, scrapped off the leafs and fuzz and removed most of the dark (brown) outer layer.  It has a really pithy inside, but it seems to harden as I drill.  The problems I'm having are that it won't burn in at all.  It will drill, but no smoke, no ash, not even a dark color where I drill.  I get heat, but not enough.  I'm thinking of trying it as an Eqyptian drill set because it would break as a bow drill set.

So it's new to me, it's winter here, the stalks are dark brown on the outside, very light and pithy on the inner part, very easy to break, cuts very easily...and that's about all I can think of to tell you. 

I'm wondering if it matters what season you harvest the stalk, if I need to harvest it closer to the ground, is there more than one type of Mullein (maybe I have the wrong type) as I've seen it more green on the stalk during the summer months out here...

I did get a fairly good amount of what I'm guessing are the seed pods (about the size of a sweet pea) that I'll plant here if it's the right kind.  It's kinda hard to find close by my home area.  The seeds are all the way at the top colored part, above the leaves.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

Thanks!

My first question is, "Are the stalks standing and are they dead and dry?" Dead and dry standing solid wood that etches with the fingernail. Resin (sap) free also. Green stalks or green wood doesn't work. At least not for me.

I don't have mullein or cedar here growing wild to use so I don't know that combination or wood characteristics. I would think that cedar on cedar would be your best bet as long as its solid, dead, dry, and sap free. Maybe I should say "seasoned" cedar. I believe cedar is a similar softwood to pine.

[Dano]

Let me clarify-I'm having trouble with the Mullein.  I have had success with red cedar and maple.

Yes, the Mullein was dead standing, not wet, not green.   The outer "bark" or membrane layer is dark brown and the stalk is quite brittle.  I was able to break the stalk with one hand, and it broke clean.

I tried it with the dark outer layer, which drilled through almost.  After shaving the outer layer off, the inner lighter layer did drill a cavity, but won't "burn in".  It just drills into the hearth (also Mullein) and then once the pith gets packed, it stops drilling and just polishes the hearth and spindle.

[shane]

Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane

 

[moa_shooter]

This video was made a couple of weeks ago using some materials from around the yard...



...and this one is from back in November while on a deer hunting trip.

[Dano]

Here is my first tube ever. It was made in response about the hand drill taking too long and too hard. Hope you enjoy -Shane

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3xmhz8erUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks for putting this up shane, I'd forgotten about trying that kind of hearth.  I'm going to try it with my mullein stalk.  I think the thumb loops will help too because I broke the spindle even trying the Egyptian method.  My stalks aren't strong enough to take that much side force.

I couldn't see in the video, but did you make a small notch on the hearth pieces to keep the spindle in place?

[PetrifiedWood]

Congrats guys, I got your requests and you are now fff.