Author Topic: Green River Knife blanks...  (Read 22325 times)

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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« on: February 01, 2013, 10:37:40 PM »
Hey fellows!
I've been thinking about this for quite sometime. What are your opinions on these blanks? I'm wanting to get the one below and then get a knife making friend of mine to put a set of elk antler scales on it. And then I would make a sheath for it.
What do ya think ?

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/453/2/BLADE-SHE-04

ETA... I started to buy one already with a handle last summer at a gun show, but changed my mind because I really want elk antler ;)


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Offline rogumpogum

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 11:11:55 PM »
Green River's are great skinners and slicers. I use a sheath knife (the small butcher-like one) for all my deer processing, among other things. I don't take them into the woods, but I know people that do, and I know one guy who swears by his above all other knives and he's been around the world (old Tomahawk from http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/ ).

Very fun projects as well. I did one with osage handles.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 11:21:51 PM »
Those are great blades, Bearhunter :).   I guarantee you'll be more than satisfied, they're "WOLFY APPROVED" :thumbsup:

I've put together several of those Russell's for myself and others.....they're users!   The first one I put together was a Dadley pattern and it's still one I go to for camping and canoe trips.  You can't beat it for getting into a peanut butter jar or batoning a cantaloupe.  Heck, it's even great for batoning kindling....I've used it around the campfire a lot over the years.  Good old, easily sharpened carbon steel that holds an edge respectfully well and inexpensive to boot :P
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Offline Gurthy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 09:20:54 PM »
Green Rivers are nice, inexpensive project blades. Here's a Dadley (or Classic, I guess) with curly maple handle I did last year.


Offline kanukkarhu

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 09:23:49 PM »
From what I hear, you can't go wrong.

Besides, they're "Wolfy Approved" so you should be GTG!

Elk handle does sound cool.
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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 09:27:16 PM »
Green Rivers are nice, inexpensive project blades. Here's a Dadley (or Classic, I guess) with curly maple handle I did last year.


Gurthy, that is slick! Thanks for the pic :)

WOLFY APPROVED... I'm convinced then :D


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Offline SwampHanger

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 09:10:37 AM »
I made one up and it was easy and fun. They just aren't that thick spined if you are in to batoning everything. But great general users.

Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 12:40:42 PM »
I made one up and it was easy and fun. They just aren't that thick spined if you are in to batoning everything. But great general users.
I think it'll work out fine then. I'm not a big batoning guy.
That's one of the reasons why they make axes ;)

Do you have any pics of the one you did?
If you do I'd like to see them :D


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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 01:55:50 PM »
I have several Green Rivers including one in the pattern you show.  That one has skinned a lot of animals over the years, is easy to sharpen, and easy to put a custom handle on. 

The only negative I have incurred with them is that sometimes you cannot make the handle as long as you would like due to the short length of the tang.  Not so much on the one you are going to get but the Dadley pattern.
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Offline SwampHanger

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 03:38:05 PM »
This one of the first knives I handled. I used some oak I had laying around. The other I'm doing with that tropical iron wood.


Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 04:25:53 PM »
Awesome :)
You guys are really getting me all excited about ordering a blank!

I think I'll do it tonight ;D

Anymore pics you folks have and would like to share would be great ;)


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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 11:15:19 PM »
I just ordered the blank and some rivets :banana: ;D


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Offline Gurthy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 05:53:53 PM »
It's a fun project, Bearhunter. Make sure you share pics of the finished knife with us :)

Offline rimfire63

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 08:35:52 AM »
I just started modding a GR buffalo skinner into a nessmuk style knife.
I am really impressed with the blade. I checked the piece I trimmed off on the hardness
tester at work & it was 56 on the Rockwell "C" scale. I'm really looking forward
to finishing my little project.

Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 08:46:42 AM »
I just started modding a GR buffalo skinner into a nessmuk style knife.
I am really impressed with the blade. I checked the piece I trimmed off on the hardness
tester at work & it was 56 on the Rockwell "C" scale. I'm really looking forward
to finishing my little project.
Awesome... Please post pics :D
Mine should be here soon. If I go ice fishing today, I'll look in the mailbox. Maybe it'll be there.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2013, 08:52:59 AM »
Have either one of you guys ever put one together before?
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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2013, 08:56:57 AM »
Have either one of you guys ever put one together before?
Not me.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 09:38:56 AM »
Here's some interesting stuff on the history of RGR knives for you guys.......

J. Russell & Company & The Green River Knife
John Russell was born March 30, 1797 in Greenfield, Massachusetts. He was the eldest of seven children. Little is known of his early life, except that he received a good education. Typical of the times, he learned his fathers trade which was a goldsmith.
At the age of 21, Russell left Greenfield for Georgia, where he speculated in cotton. After some initial poor seasons, he was quite successful, and after twelve years had accumulated sufficient money that he could have retired. In 1830 he left the business and married Julianna Witmer of Lancaster Pennsylvania, where he lived for the next two years. Then in 1832 Russell made what was intended to be a short visit to see family and friends back in Greenfield. After two years of idleness, Russell was anxious to become again involved in a career. His family persuaded him to return permanently to Greenfield which was rapidly growing with abundant commercial opportunities.
Rather than enter an established industry or business, Russell choose the manufacturing of cutlery. At age 35, he had no prior experience or background in cutlery manufacturing, and seems to have chosen this business on an emotional basis, being heavily influenced by the "Practical Tourist" a book published in 1832. The book contained eloquent, almost poetic descriptions of cutlery manufacture in Sheffield, England. His business was called J. Russell & Co.
Sheffield, England was then a center for cutlery making which set the standard of quality against which other cutlery making centers, such as Solingen, Germany were judged. At Sheffield the making of knives and other edged tools was not done in a factory or by a business venture. but was under the control of the guild. Individual craftsmen, who had learned the skills of one step of the process of knife-making in a master/apprentice training program, worked out of their own individual shops. Steps in the process included: forging a blank piece of steel into the rough shape of a knife and hardening and tempering the steel; grinding and polishing the blade; finally, fitting a handle. Once the knives were completed they were sent to the guild masters where they were inspected for flaws and imperfections. Knives which passed the inspection were considered to be perfect. The process was slow and tedious, but resulted in the finest knives then being made in the world.
Late in 1833, a factory, powered by a 16-horsepower steam engine, was completed. Machinery included a row of grindstones and emery stones, and two or three trip hammers for forging steel. Russell did not start immediately in the manufacture of knives, but choose to start with chisels and axes. Using only the finest English steels available as raw material, his products quickly earned a local reputation for quality.
By September of 1834 Russell felt that he had the experience to commence manufacturing of knives. His first prototype knives were simple butcher and carving knives, but as with the chisels and axes, made from the finest raw materials available. As knife manufacturing increased in importance, Russell would gradually phase out chisels and axes.
The early knives were stamped "J.Russell & Co American Cutlery." Although these knives had a local reputation for quality, most Americans of the time who were unfamiliar with the J. Russell Co. preferred knives from Sheffield.
Within months of commencing manufacture of cutlery, Russell's factory had expanded in size, number of machines, and with an additional new steam engine. The steam engines were not an ideal source of power for the factory. They were expensive to operate and maintain. Many mills and factories in the area were powered by water and Russell sought a new location for his factory which could take advantage of this power source as well.
By February 1836 Russell had purchased land and moved the factory to a location on the Green River. The new location came complete with buildings, dam and was set up for utilizing water power. The factory had barely been set up when on March 15, 1836 a fire burned out the forging shop and production was halted. Insurance paid out $4,000 for rebuilding the shop. The reconstruction had hardly commenced when a major flood swept away the dam and most of the buildings. After the flood, Russell was left with little besides the land and a few machines that had been salvaged.
Without the financial assistance of a wealthy individual, Henry Clapp, Russell may not have been able to rebuild the factory. Clapp provided $10,000 to rebuild the factory, dam and bridge that had been at that location. The new factory had one building which housed the forging room with twelve trip hammers. Another building housed seventy grindstones and one hundred emery wheels. A third building contained the hardening and tempering apparatus, with the hafting department in it's upper level. The new factory was christened the "Green River Works" and knives produced here were stamped "J.Russell & Co. Green River Works."
In order to attract skilled workers to his factory, Russell paid wages at above the levels paid to cutlers in England. The starting wage at the Green River Works was $10 per month for the first six month. After that the worker could elect to be paid on a piecework basis. An industrious worker could make as much as $25 to $30 per month.
The mechanized methods used in Russell's factory allowed his workers to be as much as fifteen times as productive as the craftsman in the Sheffield guilds. The reduction in production costs made Russell's knives competitive in the market with the products of the Sheffield guilds. The guilds however had an enormous manufacturing base, which combined with the will and resources to accept short term losses, could be used to crush competitors. The guild commenced to flood the American market with below cost cutlery. Had it not been for the financial panic of 1837, they might have been successful. The panic, although a product of the U.S. banking institutions, and limited mostly to the United States, did have an impact on imports and did cause economic instability in Britain. The economic uncertainty caused the guild masters to decide that they couldn't afford to accumulate losses in any of their markets, and they abandoned their plans to undersell the American companies.
By 1840 the Sheffield guilds had recovered from the effects of the panic of 1837 and were again out to destroy their American competitors. In order to survive under-pricing by the Sheffeild guilds, the American cutlery industry had to decrease production costs, and needed to establish the quality and value of American manufactured knives relative to the Sheffeild products in the mind of the American consumer. At this critical time, J.Russell & Co. hired an English emigrant, Matthew Chapman. Chapman was both a skilled cutler and mechanical genius. He developed processes and machinery which with knife blades could be blanked and leveled, rivet holes punched, fork tines cut and bent, and handles rough sawed. These and other innovations at the Green River works and other American cutlery manufacturers reduced production costs till the Sheffield guilds strategy of underpricing it products was no longer effective. However, it wasn't until the "Green River Knife" was designed and produced that quality of domestically produced cutlery was overwhelmingly accepted by American consumer accepted.
During the early 1840's was the beginning of the great westward movement of settlers to Oregon and California. J.Russell & Company began manufacturing a simple, rugged, utilitarian hunting knife for these emigrants and buffalo hunters of the plains. The knife, known as the "Green River Knife" was to be rugged enough to serve in any situation that might arise. These knives were often shipped unsharpened so that the individual owners could then sharpen according to need and use. The blade was about 8 inches in length with simple wooden handles. English hunting knives by contrast were fancy and lightweight. Although all knives produced by J. Russell & Co. after 1837 were stamped "Green River Works," it was this simple hunting knife, the "Green River Knife" which assured the success of the company, and was the source of the myth and legend of the Green River Knife. The Green River Knife became the source for various sayings and phrases related to quality and or doing a job right.
The Green River Knife became a favorite of emigrants, buffalo hunters, Indians, miners and settlers. Between 1840 to 1860 it is estimated that 60,000 dozen Green River knives were sent west. The popularity of the Green River Knife was so great that American, English and German competitors would stamp their products with "Green River" in order to capitalize on the success of J. Russell & Co.
With the success of the Green River hunting knife, Russell began to experiment with other new types of knives. A more abruptly curved skinning knife was put into production which became almost as popular as the hunting knife. A butcher knife, nicknamed the "Dadley", being slightly larger than the hunting knife was also produced. All three of these knife styles came to be known as "Green River" knives. Russell continued to expand his product line to include shoe knives, table knives and forks and occasional novelty knives including a knife designed for one armed amputees after the Civil War.
For more information about John Russell, the J.Russell & Co. and Green River Works refer to:
Merriam Robert L., Richard A Davis Jr., David S Brown and Michael E Buerger, The History of the John Russell Cutlery Company 1833-1936. Published 1976, Bete Press, Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Russell, Carl P. Firearms, Traps, & Tools of the Mountain Men, published by University of New Mexico Press, 1967. 448 Pages.
Hanson, James A. The Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook, 1994, published by The Fur Press, Crawford, Nebraska.


Article from 1997-----------------------------------------------------
Discover Turners Falls' hidden history
Industrial Archeology at the former John Russell Cutlery Co.

BY ARN ALBERTINI RECORDER STAFF

Recorder/Paul Franz
Albert Shane of Leverett, curator of the Museum of Our Industrial Heritage, among the rubble of the former John Russell Cutlery Co. that was located near the present-day Indeck Power Plant on the Connecticut River in Turners Falls, with old knife blades and other artifacts from the company that was flooded out in 1936.



[ Originally published on: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 ]
TURNERS FALLS -- The village's industrial heritage is easily visible in many ways: the smoke stacks rising up into the skyline, the power canal and the row houses built for workers of a bygone era.
But, there are other signs of the industrial era, which take a little digging.
On Saturday, to kick off a month-long exhibit at the Great Falls Discovery Center by the Museum of Our Industrial Heritage, museum curator Albert Shane of Leverett will be leading a walking tour/treasure hunt along the Connecticut River to showcase these more hidden pieces of the town's history.
The tour will explore the site of the former John Russell Cutlery Co. factory and starts at 1 p.m. at the Great Falls Discovery Center. Sturdy footwear is recommended.
In 1958, the cutlery factory, on the island between the power canal and Connecticut River, was demolished, leaving many of the bricks and metal pieces that held the building together lying on the river bank.
All that's left standing is the foundation, with large holes, used for drainage and as outlets for the canal that powered the factory, spaced along its base.
In the shadow of the foundation, Shane crouched down and dug through the rocks. Soon, he came up with a rusted piece of metal that appeared to have been some sort of old tool, perhaps a wrench. A little more digging and he found the handle of an old paint scrapper.
When workers made a mistake on a knife at the factory, they just through the piece out the window, said Shane.
'Here's a file,' he said after some more digging.
Shane pushed aside a few more rocks and held up another piece of rusted metal, a knife blade. Nearby, he discovered some blanks, the piece of steel where the blade was cut out of.
'If you do a little digging, you're liable to find even more stuff,' Shane said.
Trudging over rocks and trees, further along the bank Shane pointed out a railroad tie, which he said was most likely for carts that moved around the factory. A little farther down the riverbank a rusted metal cart was turned upside down.
Some of the metal pieces are recognizable, like the cart or a set of old window counterweights, but other twisted hunks of metal don't have a clear use.
In 1870, the J. Russell Cutlery Co. moved off the banks of the Green River in Greenfield; it moved to the banks of the Connecticut River.
'They needed a bigger factory and more water power,' said Shane.
The factory made knives until the flood of 1936, when the building was so severely damaged that the owners decided to abandon it. The Dexter Cutlery Co. had bought the firm in 1933 and it moved the facilities to its Southbridge plant after the flood.
The Discovery Center exhibit, running from July 1 to 31, will feature the paper and cutlery industries from the 1870s to the 1930s. A collection of John Russell Cutlery Co. will be on display.
The tour along the Connecticut River in Turners is the first in what the museum hopes are many tours of former industrial sites in Franklin County, said Shane. On Sept. 23, he plans to lead a tour on a site in Bernardston.
For more information on the museum, www.industrialhisto ry.org.


......and some pictures of the original factory.

http://industrialhistory.org/exhibits/the-green-river-mill-re-creation-project/
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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 11:47:48 AM »
Awesome read Wolfy, thanks :D
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2013, 12:02:10 PM »
Very interesting read. Makes me want to order a blank just for the heck of it. :D

Offline Binalith

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2013, 05:46:13 AM »
thanks wolf

Offline nmusic

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 09:16:56 PM »
I got the exact blade that you're looking at getting and put a simple walnut handle on it.  That knife goes everywhere with me in the woods and lives in my Jeep the rest of the time.  I use it for everything from splitting kindling to skinning deer.  I've made a couple others using their blades and I just ordered some more to do.  I think those blades are great, especially for the price

Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 09:32:32 PM »
Good for you, nmusic......and good taste in outdoor knives, too!   You knew that they were "wolfy approved" didn't you? :shrug: :lol:

When you get a chance, slip over to "Introductions" and tell us a little about yourself......there's lots of us that would like to say.... :welcome:
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Offline MnSportsman

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 05:37:44 AM »
  I am thinking I might try this myself. I kinda like the style of them. And... I can always use another knife, right?
 ;)

Besides... can't go wrong if "Wolfy Approved" the  way I see it...
 :D
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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 12:58:07 PM »
I finally got around to going back up to my knife maker friends house yesterday.
This photo was obviously taken last winter...



He's going to put elk antler scales on it for me and make me a duplicate of this Case knife I have owned for several years...



I have always loved how this knife handles, feels in the hand and works in the field, but I am not a fan of Case's SS, it takes an edge well enough but doesn't hold it!
Soo... He's going to make a duplicate of it with elk antler scales and spring or saw blade steel :banana:

Pics will come when he finishes the job 8)
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Offline hunter63

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2013, 11:57:02 AM »
I gonna go out on a limb here, but i consider them my primitive everyday knives........
Skinner


Belt knife....



Both were blanks and i did the simple scales.....Personal ly I haven't found antler scales comfortable...guess I haven't found a comfortable elk.....But Hey that's why we build what our vision tells us.

Any way I consider them.....Hunter approved, LOL....FWIW

Thanks Wolfy for the history lesson
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Offline Bearhunter

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Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2013, 09:30:33 PM »




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Offline Chris Clawson

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2015, 01:26:24 PM »
Reply #17 provides a link to our museum, which is supposedly a computer model of the original Green River Russell Cutlery. Actually, this is a model of the "Green River Mills", which is about 1200 feet upstream on the same river, in Greenfield Massachusetts. Russell moved to Turners Falls, after 1871, and the vacant property was used by his Nephew to begin the modern Tap & Die machine thread tool cutting industry. Both the Russell site and our Green River Mills began to manufacture the new patent cutting tools. I also have an computer model exhibit of the Russell site (as Wiley & Russell Mfg. Co. 1897).
http://industrialhistory.org/histories/wiley-and-russell-tap-die-co-1897-a-virtual-reality-project/

Many of the buildings in this model were part of the original cutlery, but, sadly, no photographs or detailed maps of the site seem to exist. The large, iconic building on the Mead Street riverside was gone and replaced  by 1880. The original cupola was saved and placed on the Turners Falls site, and it was then saved after the abandonment of 1936. It still exists, today.

We are hoping to expand the available information we have about the Greenfield Russell Cutlery product line, in 2015. We may also take a stab at building a computer model of how the cutlery appeared, around 1870.
http://industrialhistory.org

Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2015, 04:02:44 PM »
VERY INTERESTING stuff, Chris!   Thank you for supplementing my research with additional information......we all like adding to our general knowledge of a company with such deep American roots! :thumbsup:
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Offline madmax

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2015, 04:04:47 PM »
Great... now I want another knife.

lol
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Offline hushnel

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2015, 07:38:45 AM »
Thanks Chris, I couldn't tell you how many of these modern versions I've handled and sheathed over the years, an American Icon, with out a doubt.

Wolfy, I appreciate your research, I just came across this thread today. I've still got a few of these laying around. A heck of a lot of tool for such a slight weight penalty. "o)

Quote
Great... now I want another knife.

LOL, who doesn't?

Offline zammer

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2015, 10:08:07 AM »
This one of the first knives I handled. I used some oak I had laying around. The other I'm doing with that tropical iron wood.

Swamp... how did the Ironwood handle blade work out, any problems working with it?
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2015, 02:38:17 PM »
Thanks for adding the additional information, Chris. :thumbsup:

Offline pistachiowood

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2015, 11:22:37 AM »
Thanks for the information, everyone. I handle these blades with fruitwood or nutwoods, and the most popular one is the Russell Green River Works Danby, or Dadley blade. Most of the customers who buy them are chefs even though these are traditionally hunting knives from what I can gather. Can anyone tell me specifically why this blade is designed the way it is? Thanks for whatever information you can provide.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2015, 11:51:39 AM »
Thanks for the information, everyone. I handle these blades with fruitwood or nutwoods, and the most popular one is the Russell Green River Works Danby, or Dadley blade. Most of the customers who buy them are chefs even though these are traditionally hunting knives from what I can gather. Can anyone tell me specifically why this blade is designed the way it is? Thanks for whatever information you can provide.

This should be of help for information on the DADLY knife pattern......

OK, this is what I came up with....according to my autographed copy (Thanks to Heather) of GREAT KNIFEMAKERS FOR THE EARLY WEST by James D. Gordon.  He has some tremendous full-sized color photos of early 'Dadely' pattern knives from his collection in this book, BTW, but it states very clearly in the frontispiece of the book that it is illegal to reproduce them in any way, shape or form. :(  He says that the term 'Dadely' is something of a mystery, but there was a Sheffield knifemaker named 'Dadly'....no 'e'.   The term 'Dadely' began being commonly used by several knife collectors and students, on this side of the pond, for the pattern that we know today.  No knifemaker mentions the term 'Dadely' or 'Dadly', merely calling them 'Hunting' knives.  Earliest known specimens were produced by Lamson & Goodnow and J. Russell.  Northampton, a smaller maker, also produced that model.  The best of these were distally tapered and quite heavy at the choil.  Tangs were also tapered.  Scales were pinned with 5 iron pins and varied as to types of material....most were wood (hickory or ebony), most were smooth, but some were checkered, and rarely, some were even stag handled.  Produced from the early 1850s into the late 1870s or early '80s. 

According to James Hanson in his book, FUR TRADE CUTLERY SKETCHBOOK, in the 1860s, the U.S. Peace Commisioners to the Sioux ordered 'Dadley' type knives from Lamson & Goodnow for presents and treaty payments to the Indians.

That's all that I have here at hand, right now.  If I can find anything else, I will post it, but it think that's the most RELIABLE information I have.   There's all kinds of buhllschidt out there, but none that I'd bet my life on. :)
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Re: Green River Knife blanks...
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2015, 12:01:03 PM »
 O:-)
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