Boy Scout Leader's Coffee Corner.

[MATT CHAOS]

Thanks, Tony.  I, actually, ordered 2 of the green ones for me and my son.  They were not the right sizes.  I had to return them.  They are cut different than the older ones.  They actually fit more like a shirt than the older ones that fit more like a jacket.

[Gryphon]

I was just asked to be the new eleven year old leader for our church's troop.  Im stoked!  Paid up my OA lodge dues and bought my new counsel strip n numbers.  Glad to be back in the saddle!

[MATT CHAOS]

Good for you! 
Eleven year olds should be mostly new kids.  (Assuming they didn't cross over earlier from the Cubs with their Arrow-of-lights).  The key is for you to appoint a Troop Guide that reports directly to you.  (A Troop Guide is one of the patrol postions that is appointed by the Scoutmaster).  Just make sure the Troop Guide has his Boy Scout Skill Set down 100%.  He can be taught by you as to what to do at the meetings but he should pass the skills on to the new patrol via the patrol method. 
You can make this a great and memorable time for you and the new scouts!

If you need any advice let me know!

[Gryphon]

Thanks brother Matt.  Been, there, done this before, got my Trained patch and then earned it with the boys! ~LOL~
Yes, I am all over the Troop Guide.  I'm not thrilled with a single Scout taking the place of the Senior Patrol concept, but at least I can use that.  I am to play assistant to another ASM who is over ther EYO's.  I'm cool with that.  He is new to the position and to the program.  I've been doing this since I was a Scout...and while I wield the skills, I like not being in charge.  Been there, done that, got the mental baggage.  I have more fun working directly with the boys and advising anyways!
I spoke with my charter org bosses today and let them know how I like to operate and they are fully on board with it.  Not met the other guy yet, but I am told he'll be happy for the help.  Either way, it's about the kids, not my ego, so I don't care. 
I'll be meeting thew other leaders Thursday.  We have a super-troop concept going, so this should be fun...more boys and more leaders...supposed to be four of us total...and it sounds like I'm the only one with experience.  They want to do monthly outdoor activities: that has always been my MO.  It'll get me out too, which I desperately need (mentally and physically!).  I'm considering trying to work in our monthly project challenges into the patrol's program too. 

[Trekster]

My scout troop experienced the same problems after the last scoutmaster left. Nobody would step up, and so they chose the Cub Scout den leader to be the Scoutmaster. Big mistake. He ran the place like a friggin' Brownie troop. No more Scout leadership, no more cool (and tough) hiking trips, no more interesting "Scouty" activities, just walks on local rail-trails and district events with dedicated campsites and lots of cushy camping gear. Nobody wanted to help him lead cause he was such a jealous and protective leader. He even treated the older boys (even my age) like we were half our age.

Needless to say, he and I didn't get along and though I've often applied for membership he somehow always "forgot" to call me back

If I could make two recommendations, I'd suggest the following courses of action:

Don't hire Den leaders with slow children to run a Boy Scout troop.

and

Don't make you troop into an Eagle Mill. Haha. The unfortunate part of troops like that is that it's so easy to attain Eagle that almost any boy with the money and clout with his parents and leaders can do it. It makes the rest of us who really had to work hard at it look like "less" like Eagles than those juvenile delinquent scouts who got away with murder, were nearly expelled from Scouts, and then somehow "miraculously" passed their review board and made Eagle! Also, because of this problem, being an Eagle Scout doesn't mean half of what it used to, lmao. Employers or colleges won't fall over in awe and take you on based solely on that, if they ever did.

PMZ

[MATT CHAOS]

Gurthy:  You are correct in saying that the Senior Patrol Leader does not have direct control over the new scout patrol and instead it's the Troop Guide.  But don't forget that the Troop Guide and SPL are in the PLC together and should be on the same page with everything.  Also, don't forget that the new scouts are learning the workings of the patrol method and will become First Class Scouts (hopefully within a year) and move on to the Senior Patrol Leader led patrols.  It takes a dedicated ASM to work with a new scout patrol and I am sure you will do great.

[MATT CHAOS]

Trekster:  I agree that Eagle Mills are horrible.  I feel that under no circumstance should the program be watered down just so a scout can become an Eagle Scout.  I have had to sit down and explain to several scouts (and their families) why I will not endorse "Pathway to Eagle" Merit badge clinics.  It is not right that any scout can go to a weekend or sometimes even a day clinic and finish a merit badge that should take 3 more months and get it completed in a weekend.  I understand that somethings can be done as prerequisites but not when the merit badge blue card was just signed the day before the clinic.

I have seen great Cub Leaders destroy great Boy Scout Troops.  The 2 don't go hand in hand.  It's almost as bad as allowing parent's to interfere (they call it help their kids) at Boy Scout Meetings. 

[MATT CHAOS]

Any one doing anything fun in the scouts lately?

My son and I are attending the OA Area C-7 Conclave in Sandwhich, IL next month.

[Gryphon]

Hopefully taking the eleven-year-olds out next weekend for their first overnight at a district camporee. 

Hey, got a rules question: to my understanding, most any knife is allowed per National rules: folder or fixed blade.  I had another leader argue with me that locking folders are not allowed.
Now that just makes no sense to me at all...it's a safety feature AND they sell the bloomin' things in the Scout Shop.  Any thoughts on that one?  I just want to double check myself.

[MATT CHAOS]

Gurthy a great question. 

National BSA has no rule against any legal knife.  Now that being said, some councils have made rules against certain knives, however, I have never seen any council that has this rule in writing.

Legal knives are allowed to be carried as long as that scout has earned his Totin' Chit.

(Now I say legal only because of switchblades being illegal in many areas).

(As I understand it, this large knife (Rambo knives etc) being not permitted RUMOR, came out when all the scouts thought it was "cool" to carry huge survival knives on their hips like Rambo.  This was not the image scout troops wanted to protray.  So individual units and some councils made the rule against them.)

Here are the rules for the Totin' Chit

This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following:

1.Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook.
2.Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw.
3.Use knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings.
4.Respect all safety rules to protect others.
5.Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and good reason.
6.Subscribe to the Outdoor Code.
The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility.

[mac]

in canada, when i was a leader in the past, (1990s)we never had a "totin chit".
what i did was test all the kids on knife carry while working on the campcraft badge. if they couldn't act safely with them, they never got the priviledge to carry.
i had 4 main rules.
1. don't walk with your knife out. definately no running.
2. always carve away from you. with a partner.
3. no throwing knives.
4. "knives only belong in 2 places. your sheath or your hand."
the way i got around the rambo knife thing, was that the kids tended to 'emulate' the leaders, so encouraged this more by carrying a folder, like a SAK or buck.
when parents asked me about gear in the beginning of the season, i used to give them a list of everything the kids needed. i tried to shun them away from large knives by doing demonstrations on how 'unweildly' they were.
most of the time, it worked.
if i showed up at camp boiling water in an old coffee can, by the next meet they were all doing the same. it worked great. 

[Trekster]

My troop had a policy against sheath knives but it wasn't always followed to a T, haha. It was mostly a council thing, I think, and a couple of the leaders didn't like fixed knives.

Most of our activities were hiking trips so it made sense to not carry heavy tools (except for axes on camping trips) along with us.

PMZ

[Gryphon]

Pretty much all what I was thinking.  I can't find anything stating no lock-blades.

Campout went great.  It was a good first-run for boys who have never been out before.  Happily we had a father who jumped to come with so we would have enough leaders (two-deep).

What is bugging my mind is how many of the people who I met tell me I have to go get trained...when I am wearing the trained patch even.  I guess thye just assume that since I am new to the unit, I am new to the program. 
Guess I need to go pick up a service star pin ~chuckle~

[MATT CHAOS]

My youngest son is attending his first Cub Scout function tonight.  He is going to an Invite-a-friend Pack Night at the Pack he is joining at the end of next month.  He is super excited.
 

[wolfy]

My youngest son is attending his first Cub Scout function tonight.  He is going to an Invite-a-friend Pack Night at the Pack he is joining at the end of next month.  He is super excited.
 

I'll bet he is!  Congratulate him for me

[MATT CHAOS]

Will do!
 

[MATT CHAOS]

My Order of the Arrow (OA) Lodge, Michigamea #110, asked that I make a ceremonial knife for the ceremonial team.  I am excited to do this.   

I have the blank drawn up on the steel (O1) and will handle it in antler possibly wrapped in leather.  I plan to make a leather sheath (Indian style with fringe tassels) and some small amount of bead work.

I will post some photos when I am done.

[Gryphon]

Very cool Brother Matt.
My son got his Bobcat last night.  We also had four Arrow of Light awards and a cross-over ceremony.  Our local OA lodge (Tu-Cubin-Noonie) does the cross-overs.  It was cool.  I stood with the OA guys (I am too) and as an EYO leader, I got to receive them too. 
Best part is my Dad was there for his grandson's Bobcat.  He is a Webelo leader across town.

[MATT CHAOS]

Tu-Cubin-Noonie = Lodge #508???

I have really been finding a new appreciation for the OA and all of it's symbolism.  There is a lot of deeper meanings to the ceremonies (which can't be discussed here).  The OA really offers a new excitement to scouting.

[Trekster]

I never got any further than the first level of the OA Never found the time to go back and continue on those weekends.

PMZ

[MATT CHAOS]

It's never too late.  If you contact your local lodge.  You can find out when your next fellowship is and ask to perform the Brotherhood Ceremony.  You will have to pay your dues and if it is not the same lodge as when you grew up, you might have to transfer lodges.

 

[MATT CHAOS]

This weekend my District (Nishnabec it means: True People) is hosting it's spring Camporee.  It is during this time that new prospective members of the Order of the Arrow will be tapped out during the "tap out" ceremony.  My son is on the ceremonial team.  I will try to take a few pictures.

Any one else have a Camporee (or what ever your area calls them) coming up soon?

[Gryphon]

Not that I know of...but we've already done two of three allowed overnighters for 11 year olds.  I miss how we used to do things...it seems Scouting was a lot more aggressive and fun when I was a kid.
We are beginning first aid and then ropes and knots.  I'm digging about for some white glue and food coloring.  First aid gonna be fun...~evil laugh~

[lgm]

Just checking in. I am active in  my son's troop. He is a life scout at 14. I am a merit badge counselor  , counsel  member and climbing instructor on our counsel wall. We are going to Colorado next month. Not to a scout camp but for some camping and adventure. The troop has a outing just about every month. And I think we do a fair job of letting the boys lead.
As for knives the scoutmaster does not want folders with a blade over 3" . And no fixed blades. Something I stretch from time to time. . My son has a small Buck Vantage. I find it a great scout knife. Made well in the U S A and not very expensive. We all k ow how hard scouts can be on gear.
I would like to hear what others find frustrating. One of my peeves is no matter how many times you tell them what  is needed on a camp out something is forgotten, water bottle, fire starter, extra socks.
Almost forgot my son is in O A also.

[MATT CHAOS]

lgm:  I am glad you posted.  My son is a Life Scout, too, and is going to be doing his Eagle Project on May 25.  Make sure your son finishes.  I know it is on him but, definitely, give him urging.

As far as the boys forgeting their equipment, my troop (which is no longer around and was on the smaller side) would have the boys do with out.  As long as it was not going to harm the kids etc.  For example, the biggest thing the kid would forget in our troop was their mess kit.  So they would do with out.  Another scout would always share and the boys would make sure that forgetful scout would bring it next time.  It only took a few outings and the boys seamed to not forget anymore.  Also, I told the boys to keep their gear in the pack that they always use so that the next time they have all their stuff ready.

[lgm]

My son and I have been talking about what he will do for a eagle project. Finding one is proving harder then I thought.
We just checked he has 23 merit badges. 10 are eagle required. 3 are the historical ones they offered in 2010.
We don't have a huge problem with them forgetting things but it seams it is always the same few boys.
Also we have one boy that is having trouble fitting in. His father goes on most of the outings and even let's him stay in his tent. That is not helping but I think we have stopped that so we will see.

[MATT CHAOS]

They can take some time to find the "right" thing.  My son went through a few ideas before he foudn the "right" thing.

[lgm]

This just in...
the Boy Scouts of America's vote on Thursday to end its policy banning gay kids and teens from joining the organization while continuing to bar adult gays from serving as Scout leaders
 

[MATT CHAOS]

I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

[Moe M.]

I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.

[MATT CHAOS]

I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.

I think I agree with everything you said.
I don't think this will be an issue.  As long as the gay people don't try to spread there lifestyle and try to over endorse gayness and on the reverse side of the coin the non-gay people don't preach heterosexual relationships (which they don't do now), I think all will be well.

SCOUTING IS TO PRACTICE SCOUTING AND TO LIVE BY THE SCOUT OATH AND LAW.  There is nothing in the Scout Oath and Law that says anything about sexual orientation.

[Moe M.]

I've been following this for some time.  Honestly, I don't really care.  The lifestyle should really have no influence on Scouting because in the Scouts we don't have sex and we endorse abstinence etc.  So basically, scouting should be scouting.

  Not to get an emotional argument going, and I do agree with you Matt except for one issue,  I think that when these discussions come up the argument on both sides is usually centered around the icky factor of homosexualism, and most people miss the bigger picture.
 I been out of scouting for a lot of years (my youngest scout is in his mtd '40's),  but when I was involved in it it was a predomenently Christian sponsored organization,  all the Dens and Troops I ever came in contact with were usually sponsored by churches,  now we all know the position that the Christian religion takes on gays,  whether we think it's right or wrong it's the official position.
 I'm not a fan of political correctness,  I think that organizations like the Boy Scouts ought to be respected under the first amendment,  and they should have the right to association with like minded people,  just like the YMCA should not be forced to accept women into their ranks,  and Girls softball teams shouldn't have to accept male players,  I hope I'm explaining myself properly.
 Personally I don't have a problem with gay people,  I freely admit that I don't know enough about the issue to hold a valid opinion,  what anyone chooses to do in their personal life that doesn't impact on others is their business.
 I do agree that there should be no reason why a non secular Scouting organization shouldn't exist for those folks and kids who are just interested in Scouting that doesn't have a religious bias as it's base,  but I don't think any religious organization should be forced by government or the law to accept members that don't conform to the principles of the organization,  any more than a Christian run school or hospital should be forced to hand out contraceptives to kids or perform abortions on demand.

I think I agree with everything you said.
I don't think this will be an issue.  As long as the gay people don't try to spread there lifestyle and try to over endorse gayness and on the reverse side of the coin the non-gay people don't preach heterosexual relationships (which they don't do now), I think all will be well.

SCOUTING IS TO PRACTICE SCOUTING AND TO LIVE BY THE SCOUT OATH AND LAW.  There is nothing in the Scout Oath and Law that says anything about sexual orientation.

    Just to introduce a bit of levity while still making a point,  I like this place and I enjoy the friendship and camaraderie of it's members,  but we are not always in agreement on everything,  we don't always see political issues in the same light, and a few of us actually enjoy eating bugs,  while you likely won't ever see me eating bugs,  and rarely see me on the left of any issue,  I'd still share a fire or a pint with any of them gladly,  if we all looked at each other in the same way in this life we would all be much better off and the world would be a much nicer place.

[MATT CHAOS]

Changing the topic for a minute.

Tomorrow my son will be carrying out his Eagle Project.  This is the last requirement toward his Eagle rank award.  He has done a really great job in planning, presenting and preparing for his project.  I've seen him make a few hard mistakes along the way but he has come back and made revisions where needed and most importantly he has learned from the mistakes.

He has decided to make a special firepit for a local park.  The thing is that the firepit will be used solely for the proper retiring of the US Flag.  The Firepit when not in use will be used as a flower planter so my son had to design a method to quickly convert the planter to pit and back again.  He came up with a pretty neat idea.  He is also installing a solar powered flag pole light and cleaning up the existing landscaping that has debris and a look of untidiness.  Then on Monday (Memorial Day) he will lead a Proper Us Flag Retirement Service.

After this is completed, his application goes in and then he waits for his Board of Review.  I am very proud of him.
 

[lgm]

Sounds like a good project, best of luck to him. Post a pic of it when done.

[MATT CHAOS]

My son completed his Eagle Project today.  He had more help than I thought he would get which was very nice.  He had planned everything thoroughly and for the most part he was able to execute it with out incident.  For those that don't know, a Scout working on his project is supposed to plan, present and execute his project.  During the execution of his project he is to act as a project manager, he needs to direct and explain how to do HIS project.  It is not for the workers to do the project for him the way they think it should be done but again by HIS plan.  As a leader of the project, he is supposed to direct the workers to do the work but there are times when a leader must get his hands dirty too.  It was nice to see my son stop leading and help with some of the grunt work.  The project had one kink.  He had to redesign on the fly the flower planter portion of his project.  I could not believe how fast he did this with out any major problems.  Now he just needs to write up the final report and turn it in to the Advancement Chairman with his Eagle Application.  Then wait for his Board of Review.  I am very proud of my son.

Many pictures were taken but I will show the whole US Flag pole area and a close up of the new firepit.

[crashdive123]

That's fantastic!  Tell him well done from all of us.

[wolfy]

Congratulations to your son on his lifetime achievement, Matt!   I love that 'father-son' photo, but I couldn't help but notice that he is not following your lead in selection of hairstyle.

[MATT CHAOS]

Thank you, everyone.

Wolfy:  He used to have very short hair but now he says the girls like it longer.............

[WI_Woodsman]

Very cool!  Taking on responsibility and leadership at such a young age!  Congratulations Chaos family.   

[Stormstaff]

Congrats Brother Matt! Please tell your son that another scouter says congrats.


Asst Scoutmaster for Troop 319, St George, IL

[PetrifiedWood]

Congrats! Looks like it turned out great and people will enjoy it for years to come. You should both be proud!

[James Huffaker]

Gents;

 Prefaced by, what the heck do I know, I'm just an old Eagle Scout (1976), who spent way too long in Scouting.
I'll go to my grave advocating for the program. Admittedly, during my time, the stars aligned, it was a serendipitous  harmonizing of leaders, parents and kids. We didn't know from the district or council, we had den meetings in my den leaders basement once a week, when we worked on badges, or projects, (do you still make your own sleds for the Klondikes, tweaking them from year to year?), but mostly BONDING as a patrol. I always learned more from the shared adversity, then the good times, but good or bad, we faced it together as a patrol, then as a troop. Troop meetings were once a month, We always had some activity at least once a month, courts of honor as necessary, and participated in 3 council wide events yearly, Trek-o-re, camp-o-re, and Klondike, with competition between patrols for the quickest time and most "gold nuggets".

 Scout leaders, committee members and active parents, are the scouts world, and have the greatest impact on the individual scouts. Strong leaders, and parents that have their head screwed on straight, that will "live" the program, and have the kids best interest at heart, make a world of difference to each and every kid in the troop.

 And yeah, I'm the black sheep that teaches ax , knife (slippie and fixed) (after tote 'n chip), fire making, shelter building, snares/traps, hunting etc...  We're not just making good responsible citizens, we're training woodsmen. The Oath and Law and Motto, ain't just words to memorize.

 Probably said too much, but this stuff matters, kids are hard pressed to find what this program teaches elsewhere, and to my mind, to their detriment.

Regards, Jim

ETA: best kept secret in my sons troop was that we took a hike where we saw some timber rattlers. If you EVER want to see Fred or Sam again, best not let mom know you hike and camp where there are critters that can cause them harm. (gorgeous snakes)

Yeah, I have the "give back" bug, but folks look at you kind of strange, when you don't have a kid in the troop.

[wolfy]

 

[James Huffaker]

Strange, I keep hearing about troops that base their advancement on the old (vintage?) handbooks/field books. Same badges, but you work considerably harder to achieve them . How they do this I don't know, but they don't seem to be having issues with recruitment/retention. If scouts/parents have issues, they are free to go to the troop down the road. Seem the farther removed a kid  (or mom and dad for that matter), is from the woods, the more they need the program.

Regards, Jim

[MATT CHAOS]

James:  what you said is a breath of fresh air.
 

[wolfy]

 

James:  what you said is a breath of fresh air.
 

I agree, Matt!

[James Huffaker]

Gents;

 Thank you, but it shouldn't be noteworthy at all. Like I said, what the heck do I know? Never been "trained", nor been to school, I just fell in love with the woods while in the program, an will forever be indebted for what it taught me. I take the oath, and law seriously, goofy I know. I think we need to get back to our roots, Baden Powell and all that, but ... Seams like we've lost our moral compass.

Still have my old uniform, handbook and field book, and got a copy of the BSA handbook c 1911. You can sense the changes, but when you read where it all began and where we are today, wow. Scouting as all other entities are a microcosm of society, and if you've looked at society of late... We need this program (old school).

Regards, Jim

ETA: Did you ever see Mike Rowe's (Dirty Jobs) thing on Scouting? Down right inspiring.

[James Huffaker]

ETA:

Patrol meetings, not den meetings. (gotta keep my progression straight, but den/pack meetings were gtg too )

Not only timber rattlers, but northern copperheads, 'yotes/feral dogs (they will tree you) (no wolves that I know of, yet), black bear, and mountain lion, not to mention the injuries/deaths from encounters with rambunctious herbivores. Lions and tigers and bears, indeed.
Truth be told, I wouldn't have it any other way, but I'm always prepared to repel boarders .

Regards, Jim

ETA: cogency

[MATT CHAOS]

It's been awhile since I have visited this thread.

As of tonight, I am a Tiger Cub Leader.  I will be running my youngest son's den.  It is fitting, as I helped my oldest son in the same way.

[lgm]

Wow you just got off the marry - go-round. Now your hopping back on. Like the saying goes " If I knew then what I know now. Have fun.