Author Topic: Dual Survival Season 4  (Read 22908 times)

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Dual Survival Season 4
« on: March 20, 2013, 10:22:08 PM »
Well, season 3 is over. Will there be a season 4?


Your thoughts?
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Offline land cruiser

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 10:41:15 PM »
I wasn't too impressed. Let's see more of Ray Mears instead:)

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 10:42:18 PM »
Well, season 3 is over. Will there be a season 4?


Your thoughts?


                                       :shrug:     :popcorn:             
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 10:43:53 PM »
I wasn't too impressed. Let's see more of Ray Mears instead:)

  Ya but,  Ray puts me to sleep.      :shrug:
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 10:46:54 PM »
Did any of Ray Mears' shows air here in the US?
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Offline Exploriment

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2013, 06:02:24 AM »
Did any of Ray Mears' shows air here in the US?

Yes. On YouTube.  :D

I've only caught two of this season (on YouTube). Not great. Not terrible. If it comes back for another season, fine. If it doesn't, fine.

I'll take Mr. Mears any day of the back. No contrived controversies, no phony drama, no goofy stunts. Just some good info presented in a low key fashion.

Offline Wilderbeast

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 06:24:43 AM »
Season three had the highest rating of the three seasons, so I'm guessing there will be a season four.

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Offline OutdoorEnvy

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 06:54:34 AM »
Well it is about the closest thing to our hobby on TV, so I want it to come back for that reason, plus I do live seeing the different locations they go to as well
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Offline Barbarossa Bushman

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 03:53:50 PM »
I liked it and I guess I am one of the few here who likes Joe. I just take the show for what it is and accept that they push the different survival strategies portrayed, that is what the show is all about isn't it?  :shrug: I remember reading where some people thought a lot of stuff was staged. Here is a vid worth watching of Joe doing an interview about DS where you'll find out it wasn't. I think this vid shows more of a side of Joe you don't see on the show.

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Offline Angerland

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 04:58:45 PM »
If there is i wont be watching it. I don't care for Joe one bit. Just my opinion and you know what they say about those...
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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 05:48:54 PM »
I voting there will be a 4th season unless Cody decides he doesn't want to.  He does not seem motivated by money at all.  But yes the ratings were higher than ever and from the tweets of the masses they are loving the show.  Very few people like me that are critical at all of the show. 

Offline Dano

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 08:44:42 PM »
I hope there is...but I hope it's either Solo Survival with Cody by himself, or Dual and they bring Dave back.  Joe just takes too much away for me.

I think they'd do better to have Cody host the show with different guests every episode...even just non-actor/star/celebrity types.  Everyday Joe's, just not JOE Joe.

If they want to do a show about military tactics and star Joe, I'd probably watch it.

 

Offline 04man

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 10:32:17 PM »
I agree Dano,
For the military minded there could be an Escape and Evasion show for Joe.

I could watch Cody do bush craft all day. Wait, there's already a show like that. Les is the Man solely for that reason.

How 'bout a show called Bush Bums staring Cody and Les?

Offline Gurthy

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Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 05:42:44 AM »
They usually make a big deal about season finales but for not for season 3 - I didn't know it was over until I started looking for a new episode.

Anyway I expect that there will be a season 4, & I'll watch it if there is. There's certainly much worse stuff on tv!


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Offline kanukkarhu

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Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 07:30:19 AM »
Although I didn't watch the whole thing as it aired, and didn't comment too much in the thread about this elsewhere, I did catch several episodes on YouTube.

I think OE's video (as much as I watched) on the interview with Joe highlights it all: the show is about two very different survival mindsets - civilian and military. And not that those two mindsets would have you doing necessarily two different 'things' in any given situation, it's rather that unless you're really 'dialled in' to Joe's 'mission mentality', the way he thinks doesn't make natural sense to most people.

Just my opinion, but Cody, Les, Ray et al seem to work with nature, Joe seems to wanna kick it's butt.

I'd take my chances with Cody, Les and Ray any day over special ops guy Joe.

Oh, and I think Dave C was heads and shoulders over this guy.

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Offline greyhound352

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2013, 08:10:02 AM »
I wouldn't mind to see a series of Cody's seminars on tv. I would love to attend one of his classes out west. Here is a link to a blog post from a student that took one of his classes last summer.

http://barryeisler.blogspot.com/2012/07/cody-lundins-self-reliance-symposium.html?m=1

I found this blog post to be a good read about Cody's classes.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2013, 04:33:06 PM »
I wouldn't mind to see a series of Cody's seminars on tv. I would love to attend one of his classes out west. Here is a link to a blog post from a student that took one of his classes last summer.

http://barryeisler.blogspot.com/2012/07/cody-lundins-self-reliance-symposium.html?m=1

I found this blog post to be a good read about Cody's classes.

Thanks that was a good read.  The class I wanted to take is the Ultimate Abo.  9 days long of living an aboriginal lifestyle.  To me that is more interesting than his Self Reliance class.   

Offline BigHat

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2013, 09:31:51 AM »
i just didn't enjoy this season as much.

all of the discussion of Joe vs. Dave . i didn't hate dave or joe, didn't love either of them either. i go back and forth about watching dave on youtube, still undecided.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2013, 10:05:26 AM »
i just didn't enjoy this season as much.

all of the discussion of Joe vs. Dave . i didn't hate dave or joe, didn't love either of them either. i go back and forth about watching dave on youtube, still undecided.

  I guess you have to ask yourself what you want to take away from it,  and why you question watching Dave's offerings in the first place.

  For example;
  Personally I don't care for Joe's running battle with nature mindset,  and Cody's bush hippy presence turns me off.
  I enjoy watching Dave's video's because I like his teaching technique and common man approch,  because of that I'm not distracted by any bias on my part,  and I usually walk away having learned something that may help me in the future.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2013, 10:33:22 AM »
  Personally I don't care for Joe's running battle with nature mindset,  and Cody's bush hippy presence turns me off.

I guess I don't get this.  Is it Cody's appearance that turns you off?  (maybe we have discussed this before and I forgot?)   Because his message in both his books seems to be one of personal responsibility for your own survival.  For excepting your circumstances and working with what is provided.  The truth is it is the same philosophy that Les stated in his book.  If you like Les you should like Cody.  Maybe there is something I am missing between the two philosophy wise?   

I agree that I don't care for the battle with nature mindset.  And I often wondered if that was Dave's real philosophy or if he was coached to say those things for the show.  What makes me wonder that is his videos on youtube don't seem to reflect that philosophy.  I do think that Joe's skills are pretty light for the kind of survival it is likely we will find ourselves in.  Now if the zombie Apocalypse happens Joe's my man. 

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2013, 11:15:45 AM »
  Personally I don't care for Joe's running battle with nature mindset,  and Cody's bush hippy presence turns me off.

I guess I don't get this.  Is it Cody's appearance that turns you off?  (maybe we have discussed this before and I forgot?)   Because his message in both his books seems to be one of personal responsibility for your own survival.  For excepting your circumstances and working with what is provided.  The truth is it is the same philosophy that Les stated in his book.  If you like Les you should like Cody.  Maybe there is something I am missing between the two philosophy wise?   

I agree that I don't care for the battle with nature mindset.  And I often wondered if that was Dave's real philosophy or if he was coached to say those things for the show.  What makes me wonder that is his videos on youtube don't seem to reflect that philosophy.  I do think that Joe's skills are pretty light for the kind of survival it is likely we will find ourselves in.  Now if the zombie Apocalypse happens Joe's my man.

   As for Cody,  it's not his choice of personal appearance that bothers me (the nose ring does present a personal bias),  it's his total disregard for the dangers his lack of proper clothing and foot wear present in survival situations such as they are placed, for one, that gives me pause to question his good judgment.
   I can't remember a video that Les Stroud has done in which he chose to place himself in more danger than he needed to be in by shedding his clothes and shoes.
   While Les Stroud does do a fair share of worrying over the environment,  he will usually opt for using his skills at trapping and snaring to get food before he is reduced to eating grass and earth worms,  Cody it seem will eat moose $hit before actually killing anything that bears meat.
   I don't have a problem with Dave Canterbury's mindset of suck it up and do what it takes over Cody's "well, slow down, there has to be a better way",  nor do I mind Dave's relying on his military training to get "it" done,  I do mind very much Joe Tedi's approach of while we're getting it done lets kill everything that could get in our way, then grimace and look around for anything else that needs killing,  I want to learn wilderness skills because i'm a woodsman,  I'm not into black ops Joe.

  That's a sample of why Cody and Joe are low on my list of enjoyable viewing,  if that helps.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2013, 12:13:23 PM »
   As for Cody,  it's not his choice of personal appearance that bothers me (the nose ring does present a personal bias),  it's his total disregard for the dangers his lack of proper clothing and foot wear present in survival situations such as they are placed, for one, that gives me pause to question his good judgment.
   I can't remember a video that Les Stroud has done in which he chose to place himself in more danger than he needed to be in by shedding his clothes and shoes.
   While Les Stroud does do a fair share of worrying over the environment,  he will usually opt for using his skills at trapping and snaring to get food before he is reduced to eating grass and earth worms,  Cody it seem will eat moose $hit before actually killing anything that bears meat.
   I don't have a problem with Dave Canterbury's mindset of suck it up and do what it takes over Cody's "well, slow down, there has to be a better way",  nor do I mind Dave's relying on his military training to get "it" done,  I do mind very much Joe Tedi's approach of while we're getting it done lets kill everything that could get in our way, then grimace and look around for anything else that needs killing,  I want to learn wilderness skills because i'm a woodsman,  I'm not into black ops Joe.

  That's a sample of why Cody and Joe are low on my list of enjoyable viewing,  if that helps.

Good points. 

Cody says the clothing thing is to push his limits.  One point he makes in his books is anytime you are taken prisoner the first thing they do is take your shoes so you can't run away.  He believes he has and advantage that he can run away without shoes.  On the bigger picture with Cody's clothing he is kind of in a paradox.  He is supposed to be showing you how to survive.  I see two problems.  One his clothing as you mention are not what you would be wearing in some of the environments and two he is not really surviving as he has a camera crew to bail him out.  So the premise is unclear if what he is doing is seeing how far he can push limits with easy bailout possible or if he is surviving with no help.  So I see how this lacks a logical premise.  Still I have to respect his sticking to the barefoot thing no matter how hard it is because he thinks it makes him tougher and more capable. 

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2013, 02:21:04 PM »


Good points. 

Cody says the clothing thing is to push his limits.  One point he makes in his books is anytime you are taken prisoner the first thing they do is take your shoes so you can't run away.  He believes he has and advantage that he can run away without shoes.  On the bigger picture with Cody's clothing he is kind of in a paradox.  He is supposed to be showing you how to survive.  I see two problems.  One his clothing as you mention are not what you would be wearing in some of the environments and two he is not really surviving as he has a camera crew to bail him out.  So the premise is unclear if what he is doing is seeing how far he can push limits with easy bailout possible or if he is surviving with no help.  So I see how this lacks a logical premise.  Still I have to respect his sticking to the barefoot thing no matter how hard it is because he thinks it makes him tougher and more capable.


   I really appreciate that they are first and foremost creating an entertainment vehicle,  not a serious survival instructional.
   But just as others here before me have pointed out,  the actors in these shows as well as the instructors who teach survival and bushcraft skills in their individual invirons bear a responsibility to insure that the information that they present and the example they set won't get someone injured or killed.
   I also recognize that Cody's expertise lays in desert survival,  so shoeless and pantsless is not that big a deal,  and in those areas he's perfectly in the relm by going that way,  but when trekking through the Rockies in sub freezing temps in deep snow,  or wading into dangerous jungle forrests and waters infested with bugs, snakes, reptiles, and flesh eating fish,  not to mention poison thorns, plants and other hazzards,  it's a very foolish example to be giving to people who have very little knowledge of the dangers present in those environments.
  There exists a very good possibility that those fans who don't know any better would want to emulate him,  and find themselves in serious trouble that they can't get out of,  and unlike the "pro's" they are watching, they don't have a safety net at the ready to rescue them.
  You rarely if ever see Les Stroud, Dave Canterbury,  Ray Mears,  or any of the others taking such a position,  if anything they teach that your first line of survival is the clothes on your back (shelter, fire, water), dressing for your invironment critical, and the biggest complaints from Dave or Joe is Cody's impropper attire,  because it not only endangers Cody,  but also places more stress on his partners.
  In watching these shows it's a lot of fun to find things wrong with the way some issues are delt with or portrayed,  and much of it can be forgiven as staged for entertainment,  but when it become negligent it's a differnt story.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2013, 05:25:03 PM »

   I really appreciate that they are first and foremost creating an entertainment vehicle,  not a serious survival instructional.
   But just as others here before me have pointed out,  the actors in these shows as well as the instructors who teach survival and bushcraft skills in their individual invirons bear a responsibility to insure that the information that they present and the example they set won't get someone injured or killed.
   I also recognize that Cody's expertise lays in desert survival,  so shoeless and pantsless is not that big a deal,  and in those areas he's perfectly in the relm by going that way,  but when trekking through the Rockies in sub freezing temps in deep snow,  or wading into dangerous jungle forrests and waters infested with bugs, snakes, reptiles, and flesh eating fish,  not to mention poison thorns, plants and other hazzards,  it's a very foolish example to be giving to people who have very little knowledge of the dangers present in those environments.
  There exists a very good possibility that those fans who don't know any better would want to emulate him,  and find themselves in serious trouble that they can't get out of,  and unlike the "pro's" they are watching, they don't have a safety net at the ready to rescue them.
  You rarely if ever see Les Stroud, Dave Canterbury,  Ray Mears,  or any of the others taking such a position,  if anything they teach that your first line of survival is the clothes on your back (shelter, fire, water), dressing for your invironment critical, and the biggest complaints from Dave or Joe is Cody's impropper attire,  because it not only endangers Cody,  but also places more stress on his partners.
  In watching these shows it's a lot of fun to find things wrong with the way some issues are delt with or portrayed,  and much of it can be forgiven as staged for entertainment,  but when it become negligent it's a differnt story.

That was always my feelings about Bear.  Following his examples would get one killed.  For me the difference is I always thought Cody was pretty clear on the show about do as I say not as I do.  That he was doing it out of personal challenge.  But yes I would not go out to the Yukon in socks and shorts and I would not recommend anyone else do it either. 

From Cody's website:
Quote
If you love your survival shows and pick up a cool survival tidbit or two, fine. But please have the common sense and wisdom to realize the show for what it is -- entertainment.

I personally think all the shows are to some extent dangerous to a novice as they make things appear to be much easier than they really are.  All the comments that I watched a show and now I can survive are fooling themselves.  There is only one way to be comfortable in the woods.  You have to spend some nights in the woods.  You have to practice the skills. 

Offline mac

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2013, 05:38:33 PM »
they lost me in season 3 when joe drank his own urine... LOL.
everyone knows urine is toxic, look it up; sas survival handbook, etc.


HEY! maybe they should get joe and bear gryllis next season!
yea. joe could drink his own urine, and bear could squeeze fluids out of a lump of feces and drink it...!  ROFL! :D
/end sarcasm

see you on the trails...

Offline kanukkarhu

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Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2013, 08:52:19 PM »
they lost me in season 3 when joe drank his own urine... LOL.
everyone knows urine is toxic, look it up; sas survival handbook, etc.


HEY! maybe they should get joe and bear gryllis next season!
yea. joe could drink his own urine, and bear could squeeze fluids out of a lump of feces and drink it...!  ROFL! :D
/end sarcasm
OK, wow, I'm just gonna say it: Joe, that was gross! :crazy:

I watch that clip of Joe drinking from the golden stream of toxicity that is urine, and my appreciation of Cody, barefoot and shorts and all, just shot off the charts in comparison.  Of course it is TV and we all know TV never lies... so he is drinking his own pee for sure. Right?

I didn't know he did that in this show, and wow, that was disgusting. Mainly because it wasn't a really a life or death situation - I'm pretty sure the camera crew's not gonna watch Joe die of thirst...

(We all know the shows take longer to film than the time they are betraying right? Cody said that in a talk once, btw.)

That was more disturbing than the water from elephant/hippo/"macro fauna" dung trick, by FAR.

I would watch a survival show featuring Dave Cantebury again over this combo.

Super heavy edited so as not to be so tough on Joe. Joe's a person too, even if he drinks his own pee... :)

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 08:57:31 PM by kanukkarhu »
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Offline kanukkarhu

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Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2013, 08:53:28 PM »
Oops! Sorry duplicate post!
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2013, 10:17:32 PM »
I have heard of urinating into the dirt around a solar still, but that is not the same thing...
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Offline kanukkarhu

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Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2013, 10:36:12 PM »
I have heard of urinating into the dirt around a solar still, but that is not the same thing...
I guess coming from an incredibly water-rich environment, I've a hard time relating to life-threatening thirst. I find it gross even thinking of directing a stream or urine anywhere near something I'll eventually be consuming...

There's always a ditch nearby, if worse came to worse, and I'd much sooner deal with diarrhea later than drinking pee right now.


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Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2013, 10:48:21 PM »
I have heard of urinating into the dirt around a solar still, but that is not the same thing...

My experience with the solar still thing is don't expect to get much.  Maybe in the desert it works better. 

Offline BigHat

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 06:49:05 AM »
i just didn't enjoy this season as much.

all of the discussion of Joe vs. Dave . i didn't hate dave or joe, didn't love either of them either. i go back and forth about watching dave on youtube, still undecided.

  I guess you have to ask yourself what you want to take away from it,  and why you question watching Dave's offerings in the first place.

  For example;
  Personally I don't care for Joe's running battle with nature mindset,  and Cody's bush hippy presence turns me off.
  I enjoy watching Dave's video's because I like his teaching technique and common man approch,  because of that I'm not distracted by any bias on my part,  and I usually walk away having learned something that may help me in the future.

i guess what i was trying to get out of it was some entertainment with a few tidbits of new information thrown in from time to time.

for me, it wasn't particularly entertaining. Joe was a little extreme, and over time i've noticed cody get a little more full of himself. his philosophy hasn't seemed to have changed since the first season, but his lack of acceptance has grown stronger, in my opinion.
additionally, i felt that the show was repeating itself. and although i realize there are only so many environment scenarios out there, it just seemed like remakes with a Joe playing a new dave. the other thing that bothered me was they didn't seem to be sharing any new tips, just new drama.

overall i got burnt out on the show by episode 3, and haven't watched one since.




WARNING: the following contains opinion, some of which others may not agree with. please do not veer "off topic" from the original thread


i don't want to take this thread in the wrong direction, but in the interest of full disclosure; I have a hard time watching DC because i don't think he's genuine. his admitted lies and then subsequent apology (which i felt was disingenuous) don't sit right with me. i do like his approach, but not his lack of character.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2013, 08:56:26 AM »
i just didn't enjoy this season as much.

all of the discussion of Joe vs. Dave . i didn't hate dave or joe, didn't love either of them either. i go back and forth about watching dave on youtube, still undecided.

  I guess you have to ask yourself what you want to take away from it,  and why you question watching Dave's offerings in the first place.

  For example;
  Personally I don't care for Joe's running battle with nature mindset,  and Cody's bush hippy presence turns me off.
  I enjoy watching Dave's video's because I like his teaching technique and common man approach,  because of that I'm not distracted by any bias on my part,  and I usually walk away having learned something that may help me in the future.

i guess what i was trying to get out of it was some entertainment with a few tidbits of new information thrown in from time to time.

for me, it wasn't particularly entertaining. Joe was a little extreme, and over time i've noticed cody get a little more full of himself. his philosophy hasn't seemed to have changed since the first season, but his lack of acceptance has grown stronger, in my opinion.
additionally, i felt that the show was repeating itself. and although i realize there are only so many environment scenarios out there, it just seemed like remakes with a Joe playing a new dave. the other thing that bothered me was they didn't seem to be sharing any new tips, just new drama.

overall i got burnt out on the show by episode 3, and haven't watched one since.




WARNING: the following contains opinion, some of which others may not agree with. please do not veer "off topic" from the original thread


i don't want to take this thread in the wrong direction, but in the interest of full disclosure; I have a hard time watching DC because i don't think he's genuine. his admitted lies and then subsequent apology (which i felt was disingenuous) don't sit right with me. i do like his approach, but not his lack of character.

   Not a problem,  don't watch his offerings,  and don't let yourself be sucked into discussions that include him in it's content,  the rest of us can decide as we like.
   As for derailing this or the other Dual Survival thread there's no reason to worry about it,  the whole discussion revolving around the show this season has been about the main characters and how we all perceive them to be in relation to the theme of the show, which is survival in the wilds,  and the skills needed to survive.
  I could be wrong, but in reading the various posts I get the impression that there are very few members posting here that don't have a complaint with the direction the show has taken,  most centered around Joe Tedi and the scripting of the producers.
  All three of the main actors,  Cody, Joe, and to a large extent Dave,  if polled I think the majority would agree that of the two,  Joe and Dave,  Dave is the more skilled and reasoned of the two when it comes to wilderness survival,  but there is controversy about all three.

  Personally I don't have a problem with Canterbury,  and I don't think he is disingenuous,  he makes no bones about being raised poor,  and about being raised a mountain boy,  self reliance is in his blood.
  What else I know about him is that he has a clean military record and he knows and practices the skills he tries to teach to others,  and that when he talks about the gear and the skills that he uses and suggests to his students or those of us who follow his videos,  he is constant in his Common man mindset,  and that to me speaks to the character of the man.
  Now I know that some would say his character is questionable since he lied about his military service,  that is not in question,  the man admitted to it and asked for forgiveness from those he offended,  is it a breech of trust, certainly,  is that unforgivable, no, not at all,  who among us has never fibbed or embellished on a job application to make our selves more appealing to potential employers.
  Why do you think companies exist that do nothing but write resumes for job hunters,  they exist because they are effective,  and they are so because they are good at making us look better on paper,  looking at it that way it's likely that a third of the population is guilty of doing nothing different than Canterbury has,  and damned few of them have apologized for it.
  So what am I saying,  that he is being altruistic in everything he says and does,  no, I'm saying the man is normal,  he's a man that has known hard times,  those hard times have shaped his common man approch to life and that is genuine,  he's a man who has worked hard for what he has,  he's made mistakes just like the rest of us, he's owned up to them and he's humbled himself to atone for it.
  I know that not everyone will agree with me, but that's ok,  we all have to live our lives according to our own values,  mine include having faith in people and forgiveness for our mistakes.
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Online SwampHanger

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2013, 10:29:00 AM »
Well between the 3 Dave is kinda in the middle to me. He has good woodcraft skills and also treats the situation as a situation. Cody wanders around half dressed ing about everyone else being dangerous for the teams sake. Well put some clothes on. Joe is still just in it for the moment. That video was good. As long as he's getting a check he'll play Rambo.

Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2013, 02:36:39 PM »
   Not a problem,  don't watch his offerings,  and don't let yourself be sucked into discussions that include him in it's content,  the rest of us can decide as we like.
   As for derailing this or the other Dual Survival thread there's no reason to worry about it,  the whole discussion revolving around the show this season has been about the main characters and how we all perceive them to be in relation to the theme of the show, which is survival in the wilds,  and the skills needed to survive.
  I could be wrong, but in reading the various posts I get the impression that there are very few members posting here that don't have a complaint with the direction the show has taken,  most centered around Joe Tedi and the scripting of the producers.
  All three of the main actors,  Cody, Joe, and to a large extent Dave,  if polled I think the majority would agree that of the two,  Joe and Dave,  Dave is the more skilled and reasoned of the two when it comes to wilderness survival,  but there is controversy about all three.

  Personally I don't have a problem with Canterbury,  and I don't think he is disingenuous,  he makes no bones about being raised poor,  and about being raised a mountain boy,  self reliance is in his blood.
  What else I know about him is that he has a clean military record and he knows and practices the skills he tries to teach to others,  and that when he talks about the gear and the skills that he uses and suggests to his students or those of us who follow his videos,  he is constant in his Common man mindset,  and that to me speaks to the character of the man.
  Now I know that some would say his character is questionable since he lied about his military service,  that is not in question,  the man admitted to it and asked for forgiveness from those he offended,  is it a breech of trust, certainly,  is that unforgivable, no, not at all,  who among us has never fibbed or embellished on a job application to make our selves more appealing to potential employers.
  Why do you think companies exist that do nothing but write resumes for job hunters,  they exist because they are effective,  and they are so because they are good at making us look better on paper,  looking at it that way it's likely that a third of the population is guilty of doing nothing different than Canterbury has,  and damned few of them have apologized for it.
  So what am I saying,  that he is being altruistic in everything he says and does,  no, I'm saying the man is normal,  he's a man that has known hard times,  those hard times have shaped his common man approch to life and that is genuine,  he's a man who has worked hard for what he has,  he's made mistakes just like the rest of us, he's owned up to them and he's humbled himself to atone for it.
  I know that not everyone will agree with me, but that's ok,  we all have to live our lives according to our own values,  mine include having faith in people and forgiveness for our mistakes.

I still remain a Cody fan more from his books than the show.  But anyway Moe, you put this very eloquently.  Much better than I could have and it is exactly the way I feel about it.  Dave has some skills.  If you doubt that watch his Roycroft pack frame videos he recently uploaded.  I'm sure not going to let one mistake that he was penalized for in a big way and apologized for get in the way of me learning something from the guy. 

I love how some have picked apart Dave's words in his video as proof that he is disingenuous.  Dave is one of those down to earth people.  I think he is probably a good guy.  I don't think he is particularly articulate.  I think he meant his apology and said it in the best way he knew how.  Dave has a high level of knowledge and sophistication about bushcraft topics.  Not so much about public relations and communication. 

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2013, 03:51:10 PM »
   Not a problem,  don't watch his offerings,  and don't let yourself be sucked into discussions that include him in it's content,  the rest of us can decide as we like.
   As for derailing this or the other Dual Survival thread there's no reason to worry about it,  the whole discussion revolving around the show this season has been about the main characters and how we all perceive them to be in relation to the theme of the show, which is survival in the wilds,  and the skills needed to survive.
  I could be wrong, but in reading the various posts I get the impression that there are very few members posting here that don't have a complaint with the direction the show has taken,  most centered around Joe Tedi and the scripting of the producers.
  All three of the main actors,  Cody, Joe, and to a large extent Dave,  if polled I think the majority would agree that of the two,  Joe and Dave,  Dave is the more skilled and reasoned of the two when it comes to wilderness survival,  but there is controversy about all three.

  Personally I don't have a problem with Canterbury,  and I don't think he is disingenuous,  he makes no bones about being raised poor,  and about being raised a mountain boy,  self reliance is in his blood.
  What else I know about him is that he has a clean military record and he knows and practices the skills he tries to teach to others,  and that when he talks about the gear and the skills that he uses and suggests to his students or those of us who follow his videos,  he is constant in his Common man mindset,  and that to me speaks to the character of the man.
  Now I know that some would say his character is questionable since he lied about his military service,  that is not in question,  the man admitted to it and asked for forgiveness from those he offended,  is it a breech of trust, certainly,  is that unforgivable, no, not at all,  who among us has never fibbed or embellished on a job application to make our selves more appealing to potential employers.
  Why do you think companies exist that do nothing but write resumes for job hunters,  they exist because they are effective,  and they are so because they are good at making us look better on paper,  looking at it that way it's likely that a third of the population is guilty of doing nothing different than Canterbury has,  and damned few of them have apologized for it.
  So what am I saying,  that he is being altruistic in everything he says and does,  no, I'm saying the man is normal,  he's a man that has known hard times,  those hard times have shaped his common man approch to life and that is genuine,  he's a man who has worked hard for what he has,  he's made mistakes just like the rest of us, he's owned up to them and he's humbled himself to atone for it.
  I know that not everyone will agree with me, but that's ok,  we all have to live our lives according to our own values,  mine include having faith in people and forgiveness for our mistakes.

I still remain a Cody fan more from his books than the show.  But anyway Moe, you put this very eloquently.  Much better than I could have and it is exactly the way I feel about it.  Dave has some skills.  If you doubt that watch his Roycroft pack frame videos he recently uploaded.  I'm sure not going to let one mistake that he was penalized for in a big way and apologized for get in the way of me learning something from the guy. 

I love how some have picked apart Dave's words in his video as proof that he is disingenuous.  Dave is one of those down to earth people.  I think he is probably a good guy.  I don't think he is particularly articulate.  I think he meant his apology and said it in the best way he knew how.  Dave has a high level of knowledge and sophistication about bushcraft topics.  Not so much about public relations and communication.

  I'd tend to agree with you,  I think he's most comfortable when he's teaching and discussing what he knows,  but not so much in many of the interviews that I've seen him do.
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Offline BENCH

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2013, 10:39:12 AM »
I Take it for what  it is, a reality show.
 
I dont mind Joe, but I am Canterbury fan.

The show is kinda getting old hat to me, so I don't look forward to it as much as I Les's show.

As soon as I get out of this hospital room, I'm going to start testing my own survival skills.  Mores time outside and less TV.

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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2013, 10:51:32 AM »
Since we're on the topic of personalities, I'll reiterate what Moe said.
My first exposure to DC was this TV show. My personality and Dave's are polar opposites. I didn't care for the "role" he played. But I'll go on record right now saying that Joe has given me a new appreciation for Dave's style. Strictly from a man-vs-the-wilderness point of view, Joe's TV character is like "DC on steroids".  :P

There is an old, old saying that goes, "One 'aw, $hit' wipes out ten 'attaboys'".
Dave may have embellished his resume, but I find it hard to believe Discovery didn't do a comprehensive background check on someone in whom they intended to invest thousands of dollars. In my humble and personal opinion, Dave's biggest mistake was how he went along with Discovery's misrepresenting his real military career. They had to know he had never really been a Ranger, or Sniper, and when the truth came out, they threw him under the bus. I'm first in line when it comes to issues of "stolen valor", but I now think Dave's situation was more because he was infatuated with celebrity status, and less that he tried to deceive his employers, and the public.

Dave spent almost 20 years building a following based upon his post-military survival experience before Discovery ever hired him. That has to count for something.

I concur with the previous posts about Dave being a simple guy from a common background, and not the brightest bulb on the tree. Rather than being conniving and deceitful, I'm now seeing his lack of sophistication, and naivete. Hollywood chewed him up, and spit him out.
"In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue." - Cody Lundin

Offline wolfy

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2013, 11:48:03 AM »
Once again, I find myself in complete agreement with you Ol' P......I kind of suspected the very scenario you conjured up there. 8).     I hold those Hollywood creeps in the lowest regard and would suspect that's exactly what took place in DC's situation. >:(
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Offline Wood Trekker

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2013, 01:01:23 PM »
I think all survival or bushcraft shows get old. They all run out of material at some point. Dual survival got boring for me, not because of Joe (I think his skills on the show are as coached as Dave's were), but they just ran out of material and interesting situations to present. Same thing with Les. I could barely watch his new Survivorman 10 Days because it was just the same old material. There are only so many things you can show on TV when it comes to survival without having to resort to party tricks. Has anyone tried watching Ray's latest show (Wild Britain)? I tried. I fell asleep. I didn't try again. There is only so much that can be thought on the subject of bushcraft and survival. The rest is common sense and mind numbing practice and repetition. It makes for short lived TV shows.

As far as Dave, since the thread is headed that way, I don't care at all about his military record or his character. I leave that to other to judge. I still watch his videos though so I can learn something. However, I think his survival experience is greatly over exaggerated. I remember when he first started posting videos on YouTube. It was amateur hour just like all the other people posting at the time. His skills were minimal.

For some reason ever since his removal from Dual Survival, it seems that a legend has started to grow about him as a greatly skilled woodsman who lied about his military background. People seem to assume that he has been a survival expert and living in the woods for decades before starting his YouTube channel. It's just not what I have seen from him. As far as I know, he is just a guy who goes out a lot in a plot of land next to his house and experiments with different techniques. Over the years he has gotten good at some thing, and not so good at others.

I also find his teachings to be completely inapplicable to my time in the woods. His woodsmanship seems focused on either doing day trips/scouts, or preparing for theoretical long term wilderness living in his back yard. I don't think the man has had to travel in the woods for over a mile with his full gear on his back in the last decade or two. At least that's what I see from his videos. The reality is that if you want to learn skills about living in a stationary dwelling for an extended period of time, he is your man. His “Yurt” series was very interesting, and he has several more in that line. However, if you want to know how to move through the woods for extended distances with gear you can carry on your back, his experience and knowledge is just not there. There are some basics there that are simply missing, most likely as a result that this is not an outdoor activity which he practices. That is of course fine, but it has little applicability to what I do int he woods.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 01:21:56 PM by Wood Trekker »

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2013, 01:18:33 PM »
It just struck me that "Wild Britain" sounds like an oxymoron. :shrug:

As far as repetitive showing of minimal subject material, I dunno.... I never got tired of watching Bay Watch.  :P
"In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue." - Cody Lundin

Offline wolfy

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 01:19:07 PM »
I kind of feel the same way, but I am enjoying YUKON MEN, for the most part. :shrug:   Even better, I hear Eustace is coming back!  Now, THAT'S entertaiment! :lol:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2013, 01:31:45 PM »
I kind of feel the same way, but I am enjoying YUKON MEN, for the most part. :shrug:   Even better, I hear Eustace is coming back!  Now, THAT'S entertaiment! :lol:

Yukon Men is about a 'real' as reality TV gets, IMO.
Ah, yes...Eustace, AKA Useless. You gotta hand it to the ol' boy, though. He's made a lot of money convincing people he knows what he's doing. I read a blog by a gal who had spent a week on his 'mountain'. She was as tickled as a puppy with a new chew toy. Apparently all a person has to do is show a city kid how to hold a hoe, and they're an instant folk hero.
"In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue." - Cody Lundin

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2013, 03:37:46 PM »

 A lot of good points being made on this subject,  but I'm guessing that how we view the actors on these shows pretty much depends on which one of them we associate with in our own life styles.
 If you are into braided hair, tattoo's, nose rings, and bare feet,  then Cody is your guy.
 If you're into a paramilitary mindset and soldiering your way through the woods then Joe should make a good impression on you.
 If you are a simple mountain boy who hunts, fishes, and likes to camp out then Daves your guy.
 If none of them remind you of yourself it'll be easy to find fault with all of them equally.    :)
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2013, 03:50:09 PM »

...
 If none of them remind you of yourself it'll be easy to find fault with all of them equally.    :)

And therein lies the rub, for me. I'm a Type A personality and don't play well with other Type A's. I fear getting together with any of them would be like a herd of rams during the rut!
"In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue." - Cody Lundin

Offline abo4ster

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2013, 09:20:59 PM »
I have heard of urinating into the dirt around a solar still, but that is not the same thing...

My experience with the solar still thing is don't expect to get much.  Maybe in the desert it works better.

I have made 3 solar stills including one in the desert under ideal conditions with Cody.  Not worth the sweat you put out for the return you get.  He has decades of data on this from his classes.

I started training with Cody in 2004 or 05 and taken several of his classes (before and after DS started) as well as spent time with him at Rabbitstick.  FWIW, he is the same guy before DS as he was before.  He has always been very generous to me and his lessons lasting.  What you see on TV is snipits of what you get away from the camera.  Although the guy is always passionate about the lesson and backs them up with field experience, science and in many cases, points of reference from others in the industry.  And something he can't do on TV, but does so in person, is point out his mentors or where he got information... Mors Kochanski, Jim Halfpenny, David Wescott, Steve Watts, John McPherson, Peter Bigfoot, etc...

TV SHOWS ASIDE...

The majority, if not all of us here, have day jobs at which we are good at.  Think about what you know for your job and then think about what those that truly make their livelihood in the Outdoor Living Skills industry know about their job.  Simply put, training with an expert is worth the money.  Think what you could save in funeral costs alone not to mention the grief of your family...  Consider it an investment.   ;)

I have trained with several professionals, what I like about Cody in particular is the foundation he gives you in the lesson that you can then take and make your own.  In many schools, it's like getting a technical degree, you learn and then can hopefully can duplicate the skill... that's it.

Time with Cody or other true Master Woodsmen, it's like getting a Bachelor's degree in that you more than learn the skill, you understand it and put it in context.  You learn how to learn, therefore you can grow beyond the original lesson.  Your learning curve across the board is greater if you want to take advantage of it.  Anyway, Cody has always been good to me, appreciate him being one of my instructors and wish him the best.

Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2013, 08:08:15 PM »
Very cool abo4ster.  I want to take the Ultimate Abo course but money and time is always a consideration for me.  Either way it will not be this year.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2013, 06:25:27 AM »

  Maybe I'm just being over simplistic but most of what you need to know you can find in good books or on the net,  half the battle for learning is homework,  the other half is getting out and doing it,  practice, practice, practice.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2013, 07:04:44 AM »

  Maybe I'm just being over simplistic but most of what you need to know you can find in good books or on the net,  half the battle for learning is homework,  the other half is getting out and doing it,  practice, practice, practice.

A lot of truth in that statement, Moe!   It also brings to mind something that I always thought pertinent to learning bushcraft techniques from any "Bushgod".   That is, the environmental location of the instructor and the techniques & available natural materials he or she uses in teaching their craft.    For instance, Mors Kochanski, Cody Lundin & John and Geri McPherson all come from WAY different home bases and naturally teach their methods with what is available to them and what they are accustomed to in their own part of the world.  A method of employing a certain technique or raw material may not even come close to being a viable option for you where you are.   I read about our Florida-faction here on B&B using palm types of things that are scarce as hen's teeth up here in Nebraska.   Cody teaches mainly about desert-related areas, materials and techniques, while Mors relates more to the Northern boreal areas.   The McPhersons have more pertinent information for me here, since they are based in Kansas.

Just meanderings of a maniacal insomniac, but something to ponder......maybe.  :shrug: :coffee:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2013, 09:27:03 AM »
...  It also brings to mind something that I always thought pertinent to learning bushcraft techniques from any "Bushgod".   That is, the environmental location of the instructor and the techniques & available natural materials he or she uses in teaching their craft.   ...

VERY pertinent, IMO. Cody may be able to find water in the desert quicker'n a cockroach, but his skills don't relate to my environment. Learning how to make cordage from a yucca is of little value to me at this point. His performance in the DS episode on the Olympic Peninsula rainforest of Washington is an indicator to me that I should probably seek a different instructor for the PNW.
"In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue." - Cody Lundin

Offline Draco

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Re: Dual Survival Season 4
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2013, 09:31:11 AM »

  Maybe I'm just being over simplistic but most of what you need to know you can find in good books or on the net,  half the battle for learning is homework,  the other half is getting out and doing it,  practice, practice, practice.

Absolutely but there is nothing like being mentored by a pro.  You can practice a skill all day incorrectly and not recognize the problem as quickly as someone who has done it a thousand times successfully.   You may eventually figure it out or give up trying the skill where a pro can get you on the right track quickly. 

What I liked about Cody's class is they are limited to 12 when compared to Ray Mears classes are limited to 25.  Mears class also cost $4500 compared to Cody's $2750 and are only 5 days vs. Cody's Abo class that is 9 days.