RARE OLD SILVA

[wolfy]

Many of you know I have kind of a 'thing' for compasses, especially some of the older ones.   Lately, I have been picking up a few of the older Silvas with the aluminum azimuth rings like the old Pathfinder model that was the official compass of the Boy Scouts of America.  They are very simple baseplate-style models with no liquid damping fluid inside the capsule.  There were basically two differently marked versions of this compass.  One was marked "Made in Sweden, Assembled in USA by Silva Inc. LaPorte, Ind." and the other, which looks exactly the same, is marked "Silva LaPorte, Ind.".   The bases are 2 1/2" long & 1 1/2" wide with the BSA fleur de lis logo in the upper right hand corner of the baseplate.  They are not rare and usually go for somewhere between $7 & $15, depending on condition and if the box is in good condition and has the instruction sheet.

The Silva Type 1, the older version of the Polaris, looks the same as the BSA Pathfinder, but the base is an inch longer and has a magnifying lens built in to the base.  They are liquid-filled and have transparent bottoms w/orienting lines in the capsules.  I have never seen a "dry" version, but what LOOKED like one came up on eBay about 2 weeks ago.  It wasn't pretty.....kind of scratched up & dirty and the photos were not the best, but I decided to put a bid in on it because I figured it would go cheap and I "won" it!

When it came in the mail, I unpacked it and started cleaning it up.  I Flitz-polished the aluminum capsule and baseplate and noticed that it said "Type 6" down in the lower right-hand corner.  It also said "INDUCTION DAMPING" on the inside of the dial down near the "S" and copper is evident on the walls of the capsule.  I'd never heard of an induction-damped Silva or a Type 6 before!    I looked for it in the Compass Museum website, but their Type 6 does not look like this one.  They say their version is a military compass and that there was a civilian Type 6, but it is not all that common and they didn't have a picture of it.    There was reference to a "rare Type 6" on an old eBay listing, but it has long since expired and there is no picture available.

The old thing checks out great for accuracy and the needle slows and stops much more quickly than my non-damped Silvas, Leupolds, Michaels and Keuffel & Esser, but not quite as fast as the liquid filled Silvas & Suunto do.  From a full 180* position the needle "wags" 9 times to a dead stop at magnetic north.  I'm trying to find out more about it, but don't really know where else to look.  It's marked like the first BSA Pathfinder I described, sans BSA logo.

Have any of you guys ever heard of one like this, have one or know where I can find out more about it?  I'm up against the wall in finding anything else on it at the moment.

[PetrifiedWood]

Don't know much about it, other than to say the induction damping is cool! It might be a bit slower than liquid, but it doesn't suffer the leaking and bubble problems the liquid damped ones do when changing altitude or temperature, etc.

[wolfy]

I like it too.....bubbles just drive me crazy!  I hate 'em!   I had an old Silva Prospector (no longer made) that was a liquid filled "matchbox" style sighting compass that I used for setting up irrigation lanes.  It was a great design, but developed a leak and a bubble that just got bigger and bigger until it rendered the thing completely useless.

The Cammenga Army compass and the Brunton transit were my first experiences with induction damped compasses and I really like them!   No BUBBLES.....EVER!

[wsdstan]

No help here Wolfy.  I looked for awhile in some of the vintage compass sellers but no type 6's with dampening.  Maybe you can do an Ebay search and then save it in case somebody lists one.

[wolfy]

No help here Wolfy.  I looked for awhile in some of the vintage compass sellers but no type 6's with dampening.  Maybe you can do an Ebay search and then save it in case somebody lists one.

Thanks, Stan!  I hadn't thought of that, either....good idea!   I doubt there will be any come up, but you never know.  I didn't know this one was a "6" until I unwrapped it and I doubt the seller knew it was anything other than a ratty old compass that he got hung with in a trade.  It came from a NUMISMATIST in New York state who included a 1935 'wheat' penny in the package, along with his business card.

PS.....One of those $2 words, just for you!

[Moe M.]

Many of you know I have kind of a 'thing' for compasses, especially some of the older ones.   Lately, I have been picking up a few of the older Silvas with the aluminum azimuth rings like the old Pathfinder model that was the official compass of the Boy Scouts of America.  They are very simple baseplate-style models with no liquid damping fluid inside the capsule.  There were basically two differently marked versions of this compass.  One was marked "Made in Sweden, Assembled in USA by Silva Inc. LaPorte, Ind." and the other, which looks exactly the same, is marked "Silva LaPorte, Ind.".   The bases are 2 1/2" long & 1 1/2" wide with the BSA fleur de lis logo in the upper right hand corner of the baseplate.  They are not rare and usually go for somewhere between $7 & $15, depending on condition and if the box is in good condition and has the instruction sheet.

The Silva Type 1, the older version of the Polaris, looks the same as the BSA Pathfinder, but the base is an inch longer and has a magnifying lens built in to the base.  They are liquid-filled and have transparent bottoms w/orienting lines in the capsules.  I have never seen a "dry" version, but what LOOKED like one came up on eBay about 2 weeks ago.  It wasn't pretty.....kind of scratched up & dirty and the photos were not the best, but I decided to put a bid in on it because I figured it would go cheap and I "won" it!

When it came in the mail, I unpacked it and started cleaning it up.  I Flitz-polished the aluminum capsule and baseplate and noticed that it said "Type 6" down in the lower right-hand corner.  It also said "INDUCTION DAMPING" on the inside of the dial down near the "S" and copper is evident on the walls of the capsule.  I'd never heard of an induction-damped Silva or a Type 6 before!    I looked for it in the Compass Museum website, but their Type 6 does not look like this one.  They say their version is a military compass and that there was a civilian Type 6, but it is not all that common and they didn't have a picture of it.    There was reference to a "rare Type 6" on an old eBay listing, but it has long since expired and there is no picture available.

The old thing checks out great for accuracy and the needle slows and stops much more quickly than my non-damped Silvas, Leupolds, Michaels and Keuffel & Esser, but not quite as fast as the liquid filled Silvas & Suunto do.  From a full 180* position the needle "wags" 9 times to a dead stop at magnetic north.  I'm trying to find out more about it, but don't really know where else to look.  It's marked like the first BSA Pathfinder I described, sans BSA logo.

Have any of you guys ever heard of one like this, have one or know where I can find out more about it?  I'm up against the wall in finding anything else on it at the moment.

   Wolfy,  mine is the Huntsman model,  it's liquid filled, jeweled bearing,  has a brass case and aluminum ring,  and yes it's got a bubble,  but it's as accurate today as the day I bought it new.
   I really don't remember the date when I bought it, but it was about 1960,  It lives in it's original box when not being used and I have the original instruction manual that came with it,  all it says is Made in Sweden,  nothing about Indiana.
   The face page of the manual is interesting,  it shows a painting of two hunters sitting in deer camp on a section of log,  one is holding a rifle, the other is enjoying his pipe,  both are holding their Silva Huntsman compasses,  in the background there are two deer hanging from a bipod and pole,  and off to  the left sits a 1952 Kaiser four door sedan,  they are both wearing hunter red and black plaid wool hunting clothes.
   The base plate folds and has a safety pin type affair that can pin to your coat or shirt and holds the compass at a right angle for hands free reading,  it has a clear bottom with declination lines, and markings to use as a sundial.

[wolfy]

Thanks for the reply, Moe....you paint a good mental image of the Huntsman.  So good, that I knew immediately what you were talking about.  I've seen those, but have never owned one.  I did a search on eBay and there is one on there now with only one bid on it and 3 days left on the auction.  I put it on my "watch list" so we can see what it ultimately ends up bringing.  Here it is.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silva-Huntsman-Compass-Made-in-Sweden-/121087396572?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c315f0adc

As far as small bubbles are concerned, they really make no difference in the accuracy of the compass.  They just drive those of us who tend toward the obsessive/compulsive side of life, a bit crazy. .   I've received a couple of them in the mail that had small bubbles (probably from the plane trip here) that disappeared after a few days.  Sometimes excessive cold will cause them to return, but they go away again after warming.   The BIG bubbles are a different story.....they WILL effect accuracy a great deal!

Since Marble's little pin-on compasses are now made in China and have gone south (East, actually) quality-wise, Tru Nord's pin-on, non-dampened brass compass  has become the new benchmark in quality in that world.  I've got a pocket model and vouch for their durable waterproof design, but I understand from people that own the pin-on that the pin and shank are built like a tank, too.  The main body is almost exactly the size of a stack of 6 quarters.....

http://www.trunord.com/compass-hiking-hunting-high-quality.html

[wsdstan]

All this has gotten me interested in getting out my compass and practicing a bit with it.  These days I have a Stocker and Yale Military contract dampened magnetic compass made in 1989. 

I used to use a compass a long time ago, elk hunting usually, when I was in unfamiliar country or deep woods where it was easier to get turned around than one would think.  Started with a Silva and after that was lost or misplaced went with a old Marbles that pinned on my coat.  Now where I live the declination is 8 degrees and change east for 2013 so over the next few weeks I will fiddle around with it.  I am glad you posted information about your Silva Wolfy.

[Bearhunter]

Damn Wolfy that's a helluva write up
Thank you

[Moe M.]

Thanks for the reply, Moe....you paint a good mental image of the Huntsman.  So good, that I knew immediately what you were talking about.  I've seen those, but have never owned one.  I did a search on eBay and there is one on there now with only one bid on it and 3 days left on the auction.  I put it on my "watch list" so we can see what it ultimately ends up bringing.  Here it is.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silva-Huntsman-Compass-Made-in-Sweden-/121087396572?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c315f0adc

As far as small bubbles are concerned, they really make no difference in the accuracy of the compass.  They just drive those of us who tend toward the obsessive/compulsive side of life, a bit crazy. .   I've received a couple of them in the mail that had small bubbles (probably from the plane trip here) that disappeared after a few days.  Sometimes excessive cold will cause them to return, but they go away again after warming.   The BIG bubbles are a different story.....they WILL effect accuracy a great deal!

Since Marble's little pin-on compasses are now made in China and have gone south (East, actually) quality-wise, Tru Nord's pin-on, non-dampened brass compass  has become the new benchmark in quality in that world.  I've got a pocket model and vouch for their durable waterproof design, but I understand from people that own the pin-on that the pin and shank are built like a tank, too.  The main body is almost exactly the size of a stack of 6 quarters.....

http://www.trunord.com/compass-hiking-hunting-high-quality.html

  I think mine may be a little older than the one you showed on E-bay,  mine is a bit different in that it doesn't have the doghouse (iridescent dots) that that one has and the ring is all bright aluminum and isn't painted black.
  I was a little concerned about the bubble,  I didn't remember a bubble in it before, but it was there when I went down to the shop to check it out to better answer your post,  but it's cold in my shop and I haven't run the heat down there in a while,  so I took it upstairs and put it in the sunlight on a southern facing window sill,  I just checked it and after about a half hour of sitting there the bubble is just about disappeared.
 I also had one of those Marbles pin on jobs but it got lost somewhere along the way, I'm a great believer in carring at least two compasses when in the woods,  I learned that the hard way  .

[wolfy]

Here's some pictures (scroll down) of the "Type 6" Silva like I picked up.  If you look closely, you can see where it says, INDUCTION DAMPING in the bottom of the compass capsule near the "S".....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370789745791?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

and some pictures of a pin-on Silva Huntsman similar to the one Moe has....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silva-Huntsman-Compass-Made-in-Sweden-/121087396572?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=bsNkV9g%252FKikE7qa0aazJ%252FX8xE7g%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I don't know how long they'll stay viable, but there's a pretty good chance they'll be good for a while yet.  They're both Swedish.

[Bearhunter]

Those are pretty darn cool Wolfy

I've got an older Silva Trekker model 420 that I bought in the late 80's or early 90's.
Apparently it was made in Finland.
It says so right on it

[wolfy]

Those are pretty darn cool Wolfy

I've got an older Silva Trekker model 420 that I bought in the late 80's or early 90's.
Apparently it was made in Finland.
It says so right on it

I know I've seen Silvas with origins in Finland, BH.....I think I even own one, but I can't seem to find it right now.    My brother might have it in with his stuff.

Before I forget....Stan mentioned that he had a Stocker & Yale U.S. Army compass and I noticed that one of them (an older tritium illumined model) just got listed on eBay, too.  I'll run over and retrieve the link, but it looks almost exactly the same as the current Cammenga.  They got the contract right after Stocker & Yale.  Here it is.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130877859062?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Bearhunter]

Dang that looks new
Do you have any idea how old it might be?

[wolfy]

Dang that looks new
Do you have any idea how old it might be?

I don't know how long they had the contract, but it is a "M-1950" model and the last I knew, they were still being issued during the Viet Nam "conflict".    I do not know when Cammenga took the contract over, but if I find out I'll let you know.

Here's a page from the Compass Museum that I just ran across, showing the Silva Type 6 "Rambler" that I've never seen anywhere before and just bought, the Type 25 "Prospector" that I used for setting up irrigation lanes and the Type 23 "Huntsman" that Moe has.  I'm excited to find this new info.......NOW, I'll see if I can find out when Stocker & Yale had the contract.........St an said his Stocker & Yale was made in 1989, so it's at least that old.

http://compassmuseum.com/images/hand4/silva_usa_cat2_gr.jpg

http://compassmuseum.com/images/hand4/silva_compasses_gr.jpg

BearHunter, I just discovered that Cammenga became the U.S. Army's supplier in 1992, so the Stocker & Yale listed on eBay must be at least that old or older.

[PetrifiedWood]

From the looks of it, the aluminum bezel is how they achieve the induction damping.

[wolfy]

From the looks of it, the aluminum bezel is how they achieve the induction damping.

No, the copper cup lines the inside walls of the aluminum housing.  That's what surprised me when I got it in the mail....there's no indication of there being any copper present without looking up under the edges of the aluminum bezel.  If you look at that advertising page with all the models available at that time, you can kind of read the copy, but it's pretty blurry.  I have no idea what years it was available or why they quit offering them, but the "Type 6" was apparently the only "Induction Dampened" model they offered.

[PetrifiedWood]

Hmm...

I wonder if a little non-damped button compass would settle down faster if you dropped it into a copper pipe end cap?

[wolfy]

Hmm...

I wonder if a little non-damped button compass would settle down faster if you dropped it into a copper pipe end cap?

It's worth experimenting with for sure!  I'll see if I can come up with a copper pipe cap that my TruNord will drop into and time the swing to a dead stop from a 180* 'start' position, both in & out of the cup.  Report forthcoming.

[PetrifiedWood]

Hmm...

I wonder if a little non-damped button compass would settle down faster if you dropped it into a copper pipe end cap?

It's worth experimenting with for sure!  I'll see if I can come up with a copper pipe cap that my TruNord will drop into and time the swing to a dead stop from a 180* 'start' position, both in & out of the cup.  Report forthcoming.

Well if it's already in a brass case it might not make a difference. But it is sure worth trying for the sake of science.

I have some little button compasses lying around somewhere and when I run across one of them I will definitely give this a try.

Copper might be the magic metal for this because as I recall my RCBS reloading scale has a copper paddle for dampening.

[wolfy]

How long does the tritium stay active enough to view the markings in the dark with those old SandY military compasses?  It seems like I read someplace that they were good for 12 years, but I don't know.

If that's the case, those that are selling for $35 on eBay right now, must be getting toward or past the end of their useful lives, aren't they?  If you can't see them now and the gas doesn't re-charge like the luminous ones do, then you'd actually be better off buying a new luminous Cammenga for about the same number of frog skins, wouldn't you?

[PetrifiedWood]

How long does the tritium stay active enough to view the markings in the dark with those old SandY military compasses?  It seems like I read someplace that they were good for 12 years, but I don't know.

If that's the case, those that are selling for $35 on eBay right now, must be getting toward or past the end of their useful lives, aren't they?  If you can't see them now and the gas doesn't re-charge like the luminous ones do, then you'd actually be better off buying a new luminous Cammenga for about the same number of frog skins, wouldn't you?

Tritium is a radioactive gas with a half-life of approximately 12 years.

So in 12 years half of the tritium will have decayed. This is an extreme oversimplification, but one could assume about half the brightness 12 years after the date of manufacture, 1/4 the original brightness in 24 years, 1/8 in 36 years, etc.


Think of "glow in the dark" paint. when you expose it to light, it glows for a time then goes dark. Tritium is constantly emitting energy and keeps the paint glowing, even in the absence of light.

[wsdstan]

Mine is long gone, might glow a bit if its been in the sunlight for awhile but I have not looked at it in the dark for a long time.

I saw a S&Y dated 1979 and it had the military contract on it.  Cammenga bought the S&Y compass business in 1999.   

[wolfy]

Well that clears up another mystery, Stan....thanks for letting me know!   Where are you coming up with that information?   I looked all over the place and couldn't find anything anywhere!

[wsdstan]

Wolfy,

I found this item:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Stocker+%26+Yale+Announces+Sale+of+Military+Compass+Business+%26+Michigan...-a055863628

The 1979 S&Y was on the internet.  I don't remember where but I was looking at contract numbers on the compass and trying to see what the dates where.

Stan

[wolfy]

Interesting....than ks, again!

[wolfy]

I just started a thread on the new induction-damped Cammenga in another thread.....it's pretty pricey because of the tritium illumination, though.      I was over on eBay just now and, keeping my eye out for useful old compasses, ran into this.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SILVA-WORKING-COMPASS-TYPE-6-SWEDEN-/310875054033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item486198dfd1

This is the same compass that I wrote about in the first post in this thread.....quite a rare thing for these to come up for sale & this one looks like it will clean up real well with a little Flitz polish and some TLC.  It beats the heck out of the price on the Cammenga, if you want an induction-damped compass.   Made by Silva when they weren't Chinese.  I have two, so I won't bid on it if one of you guys want to try for it.  If it goes to the end of the auction with no one bidding on it......I'll try to snipe it, if nobody here bids.   Let me know if you bid, so we ain't fightin' over it.         I DON'T NEED IT, but someone here DOES!

[upthecreek]

I bid on it wolfy

Creek

[wolfy]

I bid on it wolfy

Creek

I'll just sit by and watch from the cheering section, then.


GOOD LUCK, Creek!

[upthecreek]

It will be a nice vintage addition if I win it. I bet it will work like a champ too.

Creek

[wolfy]

 YOU WON!

[imnukensc]

I was watching (not bidding on) that one, too.  Congrats, Creek!  Pretty doggone rare to see anything won with a single bid! 

[wolfy]

He's offline right now, so he must be out lookin' for that heron again.  

[upthecreek]

It's paid for Can't wait to check it out. Not a bad buy if it is in good shape.

Creek

[wolfy]

If it needs 'cosmetic surgery' just send it to me.......I specialize in compass restorations!

[MnSportsman]

  Good one, UTC!

[PetrifiedWood]

Congrats Creek! I hope it works good for you.

[DesertBoy]

Bumping an old thread, I just acquired a Silva Type 6.  Searching for information about it was the first thing that brought this forum to my attention.  With that, a Tru Nord, and one I managed to hold onto from the Army, I think the only available induction damped compasses I don?t have are the Brunton transit and a Cammenga baseplate compass (of apparently dubious quality).  Wolfy, am I missing anything?

[wsdstan]

Wolfy will be along but I will ask if you can post a photo of the compasses?  I have three at present plus a Silva that I cannot find anywhere.  It is probably in a box somewhere with stuff it doesn't belong with.

[wolfy]

Bumping an old thread, I just acquired a Silva Type 6.  Searching for information about it was the first thing that brought this forum to my attention.  With that, a Tru Nord, and one I managed to hold onto from the Army, I think the only available induction damped compasses I don?t have are the Brunton transit and a Cammenga baseplate compass (of apparently dubious quality).  Wolfy, am I missing anything?

As far as I know, not much, if anything.     The sad fact is, there just aren't that many handheld, induction-damped compasses available out there.  I have a nice Brunton pocket transit that I won on eBay for a paltry $75, but I had to wait until 3AM to make the final snipe-bid.....apparently none of my fellow bidders were stupid enough to stay up that late! .   They are REALLY nice and, most of the time, a lot more expensive, but I was lucky.

If you would like to try the induction-damped, plastic, Cheap Chinese Knockoff of the Brunton (which I highly recommend, btw) as a learning tool, here is a thread devoted to it.....

http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=8927.0

[DesertBoy]

Thanks Wolfy, that’s what I thought.  Few good options exist for those of us that don’t care for bubbles in our compasses.  I’ll probably add a Brunton transit to the mix.  Wsdstan, I’ll look at options for posting pictures here.

[wsdstan]

DesertBoy you have to use a photo host like Imgur and post your photos to it.  in the upper right hand of the photo after it is uploaded is a icon and when you open it there is a share option and you select forums and copy it.  Then paste to your post here.  This is the Imgur hosting site.  Others are similar.

[wolfy]

Thanks Wolfy, that?s what I thought.  Few good options exist for those of us that don?t care for bubbles in our compasses.  I?ll probably add a Brunton transit to the mix.  Wsdstan, I?ll look at options for posting pictures here.

DBoy, I neglected to mention that I think the Cheap Chinese Alternative Brunton is almost certainly induction damped, too. After testing it and observing the needle coming to rest, it just HAS to be an induction-damped instrument.  After around 6-8 back & forth swings it comes to a full stop.  That's not bad for around $20.  I think you'd be surprised at the quality & capability they have.....I was certainly & pleasantly surprised when I tested my example against my Brunton!

Don't be afraid of them.....they're WOLFY APPROVED! 

[DesertBoy]

I pasted the link to a compass pic into this.  It looks like it worked.  I am definitely ordering one of those Chinese Brunton transit alternatives.  Out here, there are obvious terrain features all over to navigate by but I will be hunting hogs in an area that may be more conducive to trying out the transit.

[wsdstan]

Your thread caused me to get out my Stocker and Yale compass and look up the declination in my area.  I used the government site to get my latitude and longitude.

https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?#declination

It is 7.49 E this year.  Hadn't looked it up for about three or four years.

I have not used my compass in the field while camping for more years than I care to recall.  Time to get out some old maps and practice a bit to refresh what little knowledge I recall. 

[wolfy]

Nice #6, DB....nicer than mine.     I've always wondered why Silva didn't pursue the induction method of damping, rather than that damnable liquid that they persist in using in all their higher end compasses.     If you get a Cheap Chinese Brunton Alternative, be sure to let us know what you think of it.....I think I know, already.

Stan, I just plugged my location into the display in your link and it tells me that, according to them, we are now @ 3* east declination.  That's pretty close, but in my immediate vicinity the agonic line is closer to 2* than 3*.....around 2*+28'' east, but for most folks and government work that's close enough.

[OhCanada]

Stay away from Chinese crap. Suunto are still made in Finland,

[DesertBoy]

Bumping the old thread once more.  I found another induction damped Silva, the type 21 (pictured next to a TruNord).

[wsdstan]

I like that one, an old Pioneer if I read the baseplate correctly.  Nice shape. 

[wolfy]

A type 21, huh?         Never heard of those, either, but I like it......a lot!  Do you know where it came from or how & when you got it?  According to the appearance of the bezel, it looks to be of the same era as the one I have.  The search begins.....again!