Author Topic: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.  (Read 19003 times)

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Offline madmax

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2014, 06:49:53 AM »
I agree most survival shows are bunk.  I quit watching them and I'm out of the loop.  I do believe that we can practice survival skills on the practical and mental level. ...and do it. 

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2014, 07:44:55 AM »

 But I do disagree with you on several points,  and here's where we view things a bit differently, my OP started out discussing those times when we don't expect to be camping,  just spending a few hours out small game hunting,  or by a fishing spot a half mile into the woods, all we've taken is a shotgun and a few rounds of ammo,  or a fishing pole and a pocket tackle box, and maybe a pocket survival kit,  most experienced outdoorsmen do.
 It also talks about those unexpected things like weather changes, injuries of some kind, your canoe gets upset and now you're wet and your canoe is washed away downstream with your gear,  now you're in trouble if the weather doesn't cooperate.
 You're right in that you can't prepare or train for every situation that might turn into a survival mission, but you can take measures to be better prepared for most general situations that an outdoorsman might find himself in if something goes really wrong.
 As an example, in my case I wasn't counting on getting lost while hunting, I have a good sense of direction, I'm not frightened of the woods, the morning stared out fairly clear and not too cold,  I had a compass,  I walked in to the woods and walked north,  the area I was hunting in was farming country,  even if I lost my way, as long as I headed south to get out I'd hit the town, a farm, or Rt.US-1, but if I walked in a northerly direction it wouldn't take but a half hour and I'd be in Canada and from there close to a hundred miles of forrest before hitting any major residential areas.
 Normally it shouldn't have been a problem,  but the temp dropped, a blizzard started, my compass chose that time to fail me,  and I was disoriented by the situation,  but it was before noon,  I did, with the help of my hunting knife manage to use blowdown material to build a small shelter, collect fire wood, and build a decent fire within the space of a couple of hours,  I was ready to spend the night,  but not until the initial panic of being lost wore off, it only lasted about five minutes,  but the memory will remain with me for a life time.
 As for learning from watching survival TV or videos,  I think there's a lot of BS out there, but I have also seen a lot of good stuff being shown that can help people work their way out of tight spots,  if they experiment with what they watch.

Well, that's my point. No one says you shouldn't be prepared, but once you are in the survival situation, it is usually because something for which you have not prepared has happened. At some point, we can just say that we should carry our full kit with us all the time, but we know that's not going to happen. I'm certainly not going to carry a "survival" pack that weighs as much as my regular backpacking gear. Most of us will have the basics with us in a small day pack, and we'll have to scramble to do the best we can if we are forced into that situation. You spend enough time in the woods, it is bound to happen. When we do train for those situations, we should try to make it realistic, i.e. an hour of daylight left after a day of trying to get out of the forest with minimal gear; not what we usually see of "survival" shelters which take a full day to build with an axe, and a fire which requires four hours of wood gathering. Sadly that's mostly what we see on forums, blogs, and even TV shows.

  I think we're on the same page,  one need not be a survival expert or carry a full camping kit,  we are talking about being caught in a survival situation,  not a comfortable overnighter,  and I also agree that it all depends on where you end up getting into trouble,  in my area of the country (like yours), we are blessed with a lot of natural resources such as water and wood, where there's water there are usually fish and other wetland wildlife,  where there's wood there's usually ready access to shelter and fire.
  The problem as I see it is that even with all the available resources,  if you have no quick way to make those resources work for you, or you don't have the skills to assemble them you are pretty much out of luck.
  An emergency shelter can be as little as a place out of the wind if it's too late to do anything else,  and fire may be far more critical in some instances than a shelter in an emergency situation,  it can provide heat, security, companionship, and purify water.
  I'm not suggesting that it's a must to have a basic kit with you every time you leave home,  only that it's a good idea to have some minimalist kit with you when you plan to enter the woods or any remote area where help may not always be quickly available.
 
  IMHO,  there is some knowledge to be gained in some of the TV survival shows,  but there are far better choices to pick from if one wants to try to learn by viewing or by reading,  and if one combines what they've seen with some practical experience they stand a much better chance of surviving their adventure.
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Offline abo4ster

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2014, 11:40:30 AM »

   Do you pack enough in your minimalist survival kit to survive an unexpected stay in the woods ?

  When one thinks about it,  if you keep calm and use what ever skills you have as a woodsman,  you should be able to survive a night or two in the woods even in extreme conditions if you have some resources,  some basic skills,  and the right mental attitude.
 

Just thought I would throw out there I saw no mention (unless I missed it, sorry) of telling someone where you are going.  The 5Ws... who, what, where, when, and why.

And most everyone here mentioned what they carry in the their kit and fire/shelter skills and how they would use the content of their kit to survive.  I didn't see anyone mention clothing, which knowing how to dress is probably the most important skill because if you are dressed properly to begin with, anything that happens to you becomes more manageable.   The original scenario being a prime example.

As for the falling water deal, you lose your heat 25X faster in water than air.  If the vehicle was a reasonable distance, sounds like a good idea going for it with the hope the  physical exercise in getting there would keep you warm and blood flowing to all extremities giving you the dexterity to unlock and start.

Offline madmax

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2014, 12:17:12 PM »
I'm sweatin my ass off at the put in for our Pot and Machetes.  Everybody learned a big lesson on the second one and was grateful for their e-bags.

'course you don't wear long pants or shoes... tough guy.  ;)

Kelly keeps close tabs on my whereabouts.  For obvious reasons.  I'm just not responsible.  :)
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline hayshaker

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2016, 06:47:28 PM »
n regards to the too cold fingers to start a fire'
i have for some time now carry a couple of OLIN mini flares
they are for worst case senario like some mentioned here.
not only will they start a fire they provide light and aat as a signaling device,

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2017, 09:20:43 AM »
n regards to the too cold fingers to start a fire'
i have for some time now carry a couple of OLIN mini flares
they are for worst case senario like some mentioned here.
not only will they start a fire they provide light and aat as a signaling device,

  Thanks for resurrecting this thread,  and for the tip on Olin mini flares,  I'd forgotten about this thread,  though it was only a couple of years ago that it started I'm reminded that much has changed in my life and in my kit over the years.
  In my youth I used to take off by myself for a day of hunting or fishing some wild stream,  I rarely told anyone where I was going,  my gear was usually what ever I carried in my pocket and perhaps a canteen, and my gun or fishing gear,  when you're young you really don't think anything exists that can hurt you or that you can't overcome.
  Later in my mid thirties I found myself in a real life survival situation that only lasted a short time but was a big learning experience,  I learned that I wasn't bullet proof,  I wasn't properly equipped gear wise or experience wise to meet a real life wilderness survival threat,  however, I did survive, but mostly because of luck,  I was wet, cold, scared and lacked the confidence in myself that I had always assumed I'd have.
  After that experience I revamped my emergency kit,  practiced my survival skills until I owned them,  and have been refining my kit and my skills ever since,  as I get older my abilities, skills, and kit change to meet the challenges of aging,  I read somewhere that wisdom comes with age,  that may have some truth,  I believe wisdom has more to do with life experiences that teach us to overcome potential problems before they get bad enough to bite us on the ass,  and if we get blindsided, gives us the confidence to think before we act,  then make the best possible choices. 

  I'm also reminded of three incidents that happened since this thread died and your recent post,  one was of a woman,  she was in her sixties, an experienced hiker and backpacker from New York who was hiking a portion of the AT near Mount Kathadin in Maine,  somehow she got lost, Game wardens searched for several weeks before ending the search, that was  three years ago, her remains were found this year by hunters.
  In another last year, in MA. another experienced woman hiker was on a three day hike alone climbing MT. Washington,  the weather turned bad and she also was lost,  her remains were found by other hikers almost a year later, she had injured her leg,  they think she lived for over a week curled up in her one person tent inside of her down sleeping bag,  she apparently died of starvation and thirst,  she was found just 80 feet off an established hiking trail.
  The third was just a couple of weeks ago,  a team of five people were doing some kind of environmental research near a small body of water,  they were gathered around an evening campfire and the conversation turned to the iced over water,  one, a young man in his mid twenties stated that he thought the ice was safe enough for him to walk to the opposite shore,  his team mates warned him that it wasn't a good idea,  but he went out on the thin ice anyway,  he had crossed about halfway when the ice gave way,  his team mates had no means to safely rescue him,  his body was recovered the next morning by the local fire and police dept.
  In the first two incidents the women were elderly,  but they were experienced and in good health,  had they carried a satellite GPS emergency signaling device they probably would not have perished,  and if the young man had heeded the words of his team mates he would not have gone out on the thin ice,  a bit of extra gear and a little fore thought and common sense could have saved three lives.
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Offline xj35s

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2017, 11:15:58 AM »
There were two hunters just a few weeks ago that needed help. They were in a wood lot of 45 acres. Part of it was swamp. They got separated. One fell into the water. Instead of following his tracks back to the car, He went searching for his friend's help.

There was snow on the ground. He got wet early morning. The rescue crew got to him about 5pm.

He could have followed the rail rod track in either direction to find the main roads and help.


Considering winter canoeing, That flare idea is a good one. As well as a small bundle of wood.  Another good survival tactic in winter and wet is a Palmer Furnace. Just a blanket or insulating wrap and a candle you squat over.
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2017, 07:37:16 PM »
They say, "Familiarity breeds contempt."
Famous Last Words: "Don't worry...I've done this a hundred times."

My Grandfather's Rules: "Don't step on something you can step over; don't climb over something you can climb under; and don't go through something you can go around."
Don't bother walking a mile in my shoes. That would be boring. Try spending 30 seconds in my head. That will freak you right out!!

Offline Chekmate

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2017, 09:50:33 PM »
There are so many good points being brought up here.  Practice is something I feel is the most important.  Also in all conditions.   But, I feel everyone should carry a small basic kit to get them through at least 24 hours.  When I go to the woods even for a short walk.  I step out of my truck and put my belt on with my fixed blade knife and belt pouch.   I do this even to walk in for a couple of branches to bring home.    In the belt pouch is a 500 ml flat pot with lid, trash bags, tinder, whistle, survival blanket, cordage, snare wire, multi-tool, 6" Ferro rod, fishing line and hooks, spare compass, head lamp, saw blade, tin foil, tinder, lighter, char tin with flint and steel, signal mirror and a couple of bouillon packets and hot cocoa. With these items, I'm set for almost any condition I find myself in.  I don't even notice I have it on my waist.   I also practice with the items in the kit.  Like building a shelter out of the trash bags.   It doesn't take much gear to survive, but you have to come up with something you'll carry all the time.

Great thread everyone!  Keep it goin.

Keep Your Tinder Dry
Chekmate
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 09:57:54 PM by Chekmate »
Keep Your Tinder Dry
Chekmate

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2017, 11:03:29 PM »
Murphy's Law: "If something can go wrong, it will."
O'l P's Axiom: "Murphy was an optimist."
Don't bother walking a mile in my shoes. That would be boring. Try spending 30 seconds in my head. That will freak you right out!!

Offline Orbean

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2017, 05:53:10 AM »
People find themselves lost in the Sandia mountains every year. I am always amazed that this happens, there aren't too many places where you can't see Albuquerque and if you get lost all one has to do is move west, downhill.
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Online wolfy

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2017, 09:21:07 AM »
So it turns out ol' Horace Greeley was right.......who knew? :shrug:
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2017, 09:49:22 AM »
 :rofl:
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2017, 10:11:46 AM »
:rofl:

  LOL, I had a feeling that was coming.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2017, 03:53:14 PM »
"Go into the Light! Go into the Light!"
Little known orienteering trick when lost a stone's throw from civilization:  Wait until dark. Look for the glow of the city lights on the horizon. Draw an arrow in the dirt. When the sun comes up, start walking in that direction.   :doh:
Don't bother walking a mile in my shoes. That would be boring. Try spending 30 seconds in my head. That will freak you right out!!

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2019, 11:24:49 PM »
Well, perhaps this thread has a bit more life in it!  A couple weeks back I was in a bit of a pickle in the woods of Idaho, and I relayed the story at B&B.  I had a pretty extensive "survival kit" and was pretty comfortable but part of that was luck.  In the vein of '2 is 1 and one is none' I had lots of gear; 4 space blankets and a space bag, lots of fire stuff, tons of cordage, etc.  Still, I'd have traded half that stuff for a woobie or fleece jacket!  Ultimately the gear I had did the trick but I was lucky it wasn't raining or super windy.  As Moe alluded to, I wasn't as confident as I figured I'd be an momentarily has a bit of apprehension.  But once I started to get to work to improve my situation I began to feel a lot better.  It was simple stuff- set up a space blanket as a shelter/reflector, get a fire going, lay down a bough bed, stack up some wood.  The overhead shelter made me feel better and the reflected heat made me downright cozy.

I am going to revamp my survival/dayhike/ditch kit a bit now.  While I will make it a priority to have another layer to wear I'm going to remove some stuff and add some kind of bag, blanket or woobie.  Heck, even a packable down vest or jacket would have been nice to have.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2019, 10:03:59 AM »
I try to do that periodically Phaedrus. We have a winter travel bag that gets renewed each season.  It has food, water, a small stove, a couple of sleeping bags, and other stuff to eat, drink, and keep warm if we get stuck or stopped on a closed highway due to storms.  I also have an avalanche shovel and a hi-lift jack that go along for the ride. We have a summer kit too. 

I try to pay attention to my vehicle.  Air in the spare?  a tubeless tire flat tire repair kit and air source (mimi-compressor) extra oil, anti-freeze, waterproof tape, zip ties, wire, and stuff to fix and hold up things.  Make sure you can pull your vehicle out of a problem with another vehicle.  Lots of new cars have no tow hooks and that can be frustrating should you need to pull one out.  Our all wheel drive Equinox doesn't have tow hooks or a trailer hitch at this point but it will by this winter.
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2019, 12:06:13 PM »
 Survival kits are a waste of time and money, until you find yourself in a position to need one, consideration should be given to going over your kit periodically to make sure it's up to date, many of us get complacent, especially when life gets in the way.
 Batteries go dead over time, and it gets worse if they leak and corrode what ever piece of gear they were powering, swapping them out every six months or so is good insurance,  common meds like aspirin and allergy meds loose their strength over time, and pills can be ruined in humid conditions, Alcohol wipes and handy wipes dry out and become ineffective, and antibiotic ointments can separate and turn from a gel to a liquid form, gas filled lighters can leak out their contents if not properly stored, matches (even weather proof ones) can deteriorate over time. 
 Bottled water should be swapped out at least once a year, packaged foods should be checked or exchanged a couple of times a year, I once opened a bag of instant oatmeal that had bugs crawling around inside the package, so I opened another one and two packages of cream of wheat from my kit and they had turned wormy also, all were just under a year old.
 One last suggestion,  everyone who has taken the time and spent the coin to put a survival/emergency kit together should take a day or a weekend outdoors and live out of their kit,  one will quickly determine what he/she should keep, chuck out, or replace after using it for a day.
 Some things you can do without, others are a must have, you don't need two folding knives, three Bic lighters and two ferro rods, you don't need a sharpening stone, you do need a good first aid kit, a dependable water filter, a container that will boil at last .750 ML of water, a canteen or water bottle (preferably made of metal), a survival blanket is good to have, every kit should include a light weight good quality 5'x7' tarp or poncho, anyone that has ever been caught outside in a survival situation will tell you that counting on making a natural shelter out of immediate resources is never as quick or as easy as they imagined, and almost impossible if injured.
 Cordage is a must, so is a spare compass, a good signaling device, and a flashlight or head lamp and a spare set of batteries, Now I know that all sounds like a lot of stuff, but if packed right in a comfortable to carry small day bag, fanny pack, or sling pack, it will usually come in under eight pounds not counting water.
 To those folks who choose to put a kit together that fits into an Altoids Tin or ammo pouch and think they have all their survival based covered, good luck to you my friends, but I fear luck may not be good enough. 
   
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2019, 12:07:36 AM »
Survival kits are a waste of time and money, until you find yourself in a position to need one, consideration should be given to going over your kit periodically to make sure it's up to date, many of us get complacent, especially when life gets in the way.
 Batteries go dead over time, and it gets worse if they leak and corrode what ever piece of gear they were powering, swapping them out every six months or so is good insurance,  common meds like aspirin and allergy meds loose their strength over time, and pills can be ruined in humid conditions, Alcohol wipes and handy wipes dry out and become ineffective, and antibiotic ointments can separate and turn from a gel to a liquid form, gas filled lighters can leak out their contents if not properly stored, matches (even weather proof ones) can deteriorate over time. 

Amen!  My 'survival kits' seem to get bigger as I learn more, not smaller!  Supposedly knowledge is lighter than gear but as one learns their limitations and begins to understand what survival really entails the pack winds up a little bigger.  And you're 100% correct, you can't just assemble the kit and forget about it!  In my episode I went to gather wood with my headlamp only to have the batteries die within 10 or 15 minutes. Luckily I had fresh spares and two other lights but I still should have made sure the installed batteries were good.

One last suggestion,  everyone who has taken the time and spent the coin to put a survival/emergency kit together should take a day or a weekend outdoors and live out of their kit,  one will quickly determine what he/she should keep, chuck out, or replace after using it for a day.
 Some things you can do without, others are a must have, you don't need two folding knives, three Bic lighters and two ferro rods, you don't need a sharpening stone, you do need a good first aid kit, a dependable water filter, a container that will boil at last .750 ML of water, a canteen or water bottle (preferably made of metal), a survival blanket is good to have, every kit should include a light weight good quality 5'x7' tarp or poncho, anyone that has ever been caught outside in a survival situation will tell you that counting on making a natural shelter out of immediate resources is never as quick or as easy as they imagined, and almost impossible if injured.

I wasn't in a huge amount of danger although things could have taken a bad turn easily.  But it was a good exercise spending a cold night alone with my kit.  Some things I felt were luxuries wound up being very important (eg duct tape), and stuff I thought would be very useful didn't get used at all.  Of course in a different situation different stuff might be useful.

Cordage is a must, so is a spare compass, a good signaling device, and a flashlight or head lamp and a spare set of batteries, Now I know that all sounds like a lot of stuff, but if packed right in a comfortable to carry small day bag, fanny pack, or sling pack, it will usually come in under eight pounds not counting water.
 To those folks who choose to put a kit together that fits into an Altoids Tin or ammo pouch and think they have all their survival based covered, good luck to you my friends, but I fear luck may not be good enough. 
   

Again, spot on!  I started out with just a fire but anyone that's used a fire while camping know how that works- the side facing the fire gets scorched while the backside is freezing.  The tarp shelter was literally the difference between being toasty warm and freezing my butt off.  And exerting myself in the cold gathering wood, tending the fire, adjusting and repairing the shelter, etc I wound up drinking a liter and a half of water!  In a survival situation I could have rationed it more but the point is I didn't feel like I was drinking it excessively either.

I'm going to go through the kit a bit and reduce a few redundancies (eg 2 space blankets instead of 5, 2 types of cordage vs 4, maybe a leaner FAK, etc) and try to make room for a woobie or small sleeping bag.  I'm thinking either the Wiggy's poncho liner that zips into a bag or possibly a Snugpak Jungle Bag/Blanket.  With a decent tarp and a decent bag of some kind you'd be 85% of the way towards getting through a couple cold nights alone in the woods.  Add some water and the means to store and treat it and you'd be in great shape.

Thanks for starting this thread, Moe!  It definitely has 'legs'!

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2019, 07:09:31 AM »
 I'm getting up there in age and don't have the strength and long term stamina that I once had in my youth,  so my main concerns are shelter, fire, and water,  in my area you can't move in any direction more than a couple of hundred yards without finding a stream or larger body of water,  our woods are split between hardwoods and pine or cedar, squaw wood is just about everywhere for the picking, but finding effective shelter in a hurry is another story, a guy or gal in good shape could fashion one that will keep the rain and wind out of pine bows or forest duff in good weather in about four hours or so.
 But add the possibility of cold, rain, snow, extreme heat, or an injury and the time factor is increased considerably, whether one is experiencing summer in the desert or winter in Alaska shelter is critical to one survivability, while either would call for different and specialized kits, both still require a shelter apart from ones clothing.
 In my opinion, for a compact kit shelter it's hard to beat a good quality tarp or tarp/poncho made of some form of light weight water resistant nylon, that has tie out points or grommets, when backed up with a Mylar blanket and a small fire you could still be uncomfortable but you will survive in most extreme weather conditions.
 After experiencing a real life survival situation of being lost in a freak whiteout snow storm with very little in the way of survival gear or prior planning I decided that I wouldn't be caught off guard again, I assembled a few "kits", tested a lot of compact gear and ended up with a survival kit that was comfortable enough to carry, effective enough to work, and affordable enough to make it practical.
 It's packed into a Maxpedition Jumbo Versipac, all totaled with food and water for several days it weighs out at just under ten pounds, by no means a pocket survival kit nor is it ultra light, but it is practical, covers all the bases, and most of all it's effective.
 Over time I've upgraded the contents with the very best gear and tools that I could afford, but a good survival kit doesn't have to be a big expense, decent quality gear can be pretty inexpensive if one does a little research, for example, my cook set consists of a Solo Stove Lite multi fuel stove and a 1.1Lt. Mors Bush Pot, my tarp is actually a tarp/poncho made of Silnylon and is 5'x7' in size and cost about $70.00, but in my original kit I carried a cheap stainless bush pot, a three dollar folding Esbit stove, a recycled filtered water bottle, and my tarp was a 5'x7' $10.00 nylon tarp from Walmart which held up very well to repeated rough use.   
 Another serious consideration that is off times short sheeted is first aid, I've seen and heard a lot of people brush off the importance of wilderness first aid, a popular first aid kit for that type is a bandana and a 10 foot roll of duct tape,  they don't seem to think they might get sick from any number of sources, allergies might kick in, anti bacterial cream may just keep a small cut from turning into a major infection, a couple of Tylenol may do more for a twisted ankle than a bunch of cussing and a sleepless night, a good well stocked compact first aid kit doesn't weigh much or take up a lot of room, and having one can keep a rough ordeal from turning into a terrible nightmare.
 Some folks like to assemble their own kits, that can be expensive,  I've found that buying a good quality first aid kit designed for camping or backpacking is sometimes less expensive and provides more protection than a home made kit, I have a couple of kits for my packs made by Adventure Medical, mine are the 1.5 models, they have all the basics and I have added a few things to it to personalize it for my needs, both have served me well over the years, another nice feature is that you can by replacement packets for their kits to update expired or used up stuff.
 My Survival Kit has turned into my Day Pack, I take it with me on hikes, fishing, hunting, or throw it in the back of the truck or car when traveling out of town, after a while you don't even notice having it with you, but it's reassuring to know that it's there when ever you might need it.
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2019, 08:40:27 AM »
Good topic guys :)....one day i'll need to go over the contents of my belt kit, it consists of some web gear, a molle waist pack, a pistol belt and a couple pouches for bear spray n such...if i'm going deep then i'll carry a backpack which will include a nylon tarp, lite sleeping bag and a snugpac bivy...woods
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2019, 01:24:47 PM »
I was considering a Snugpak Jungle bag for my kit, but I had some points to redeem on my Amazon card and wound up ordering a Swagman Roll from Helikon-tex!  It's very similar to a HPG Serape in appearance. The Swagman Roll uses Climashield Apex insulation, the same continuous fiber stuff used by Wiggy's to make Lamalite.  I also ordered a couple of compression bags, one of which I plan to use for the Swagman.  Also I think I will swap my kit out of the Hazard 4 Rocket sling bag and into a more conventional small daypack (likely it will my the Mystery Ranch Gallagator I recently ordered). The Rocket sling pack has some cool feature but ultimately I just don't think there's a sling bag that will carry as well for me as a regular 2-strap pack.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2019, 02:37:21 PM »
Well Phaedrus you just convinced me that I am getting really really old.  You mentioned a bunch of things and of them I had heard of only two names.  Wiggy's whom I have done some business with in material, liners, and a jacket.  Mystery Ranch is the other.

I have no clue what a Swagman Roll, HPG Serape, or who Hazard 4 Rocket is.  I have never heard of Hilikon-text either. 

Sigh.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2019, 02:52:54 PM »
Well Phaedrus you just convinced me that I am getting really really old.  You mentioned a bunch of things and of them I had heard of only two names.  Wiggy's whom I have done some business with in material, liners, and a jacket.  Mystery Ranch is the other.

I have no clue what a Swagman Roll, HPG Serape, or who Hazard 4 Rocket is.  I have never heard of Hilikon-text either. 

Sigh.

HPG is Hill People gear.  They're in Golden, CO and have been making outdoor gear (notably the Kit Bag holster and a line of back packs) maybe ten years.  Solid folks, First Spear does the sewing and all their stuff is made in the USA (except the zippers which are YKK from Japan.  Either you're using YKK or you're doing it wrong!).  A Serape is just a kind of cross between a poncho and a blanket.

Hazard 4 is just a brand, the Rocket is one of their single strap sling bags.

Helikon-Tex is a European company, maybe in Poland?  I don't recall for sure.  They sell to military buyers in Europe but to American customers as well.  By all accounts they make good stuff but this will be my first purchase from them.

I really like Mystery Ranch.  I've got a few of their packs plus one old external frame pack, a Terraframe, made by Dana Designs back before Dana started Mystery Ranch.  A few days ago I ordered another MR pack called the Gallagator that looks like a good option to replace my Rocket sling pack.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2019, 06:38:41 PM »
Thanks, I knew what a serape was but not a HPG serape.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2019, 09:59:28 PM »
I actually didn't know what a serape was til I saw the HPG version. :-[   Hopefully I'll like my Swagman Roll as much as my buddy likes his HPG Mountain Serape. :)

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2019, 05:45:57 AM »
I have heard good things about Helikon Tex and their Swagman roll.../.i also have watched the price for one go up considerably due to their popularity....very versatile piece of gear...but i wonder how they hold up under a lot of use...i'll be watching as it does look promising ;)...woods
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Save a Logger...Eat a Tree Hugger!

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2019, 07:15:27 AM »
Well Phaedrus you just convinced me that I am getting really really old.  You mentioned a bunch of things and of them I had heard of only two names.  Wiggy's whom I have done some business with in material, liners, and a jacket.  Mystery Ranch is the other.

I have no clue what a Swagman Roll, HPG Serape, or who Hazard 4 Rocket is.  I have never heard of Hilikon-text either. 

Sigh.

 LOL, welcome to the club Stan,  progress and new technology is good for mankind in many ways,  but like most benefits in life we have to pay a price for that forward movement,  and usually the cost is even higher as we get older.
 My first car was a used police car, 1951 Ford 2 door sedan, my dad bought it at a police auction, drove it for a couple of years and then sold it to me when he upgraded,  if that old car could talk it would have some great and amusing stories to tell,  back then almost everyone worked on their own cars,  I remember going to a car show with my son a few years back after he rebuilt his '79 Firebird the first time, it's in the garage in the back yard in pieces again for a complete restoration, back at the car show one old guy and his wife were there showing their early Model T Woody, it looked like new, what was more interesting than the car was the tool kit that Ford supplied with each one of it's early model T's, the kit had every tool that an owner needed to make repairs to his car from the ground up.
 Anyway, back to my point, those old cars required a lot of maintenance, oil changes and a grease job every 1,000 miles, a tune up every 25,000, bias tires wore out pretty quick especially if all you could afford was recaps, so most folks kept a basic tool kit in the trunk for making what ever repairs their cars required, todays cars come with long warrantees,  a get home donut spare tire and a one use jack,  it'll go 8,000 miles between oil changes with the newer imitation motor oils, never needs a tune up, and without a $25,000 dollar computer you can't know what's wrong with it if something needs to be fixed.
 You have to take it back to the dealer or service center that has all the diagnostic equipment and tooling to repair what ever screwed up, then pay the garage $125.00 an hour to figure out what's wrong and fix it, and parts usually cost twice as much as the hourly repair rates, if you're lucky.

 So what's my point, my point is that the reason you don't understand a lot about what younger people write today is that progress biting you on the A$$,  first we lost the ability to read and write long hand,  everyone prints what they write today, and even that looks like chicken tracks, everyone today carries a cell phone but almost nobody actually talks on one, they are too busy playing games or scrolling the interweb on it, or they are texting, and that's where we even lost the ability to use proper language, in order to expedite a message every one abbreviates or uses symbols to communicate,  progress has managed to make the written word and verbal communication just about obsolete.   
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2019, 08:00:32 AM »
Thanks Moe!....now i'm really depressed :'(... ;)
'At play in the fields of the Lord'
Save a Logger...Eat a Tree Hugger!

Offline wsdstan

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2019, 08:14:14 AM »
Well my wool blanket rolls up into a bedroll just fine and at my age I don't need to worry about long warranty periods.

I do need to worry about where the bathroom is though.   :-X
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2019, 06:39:34 AM »
Thanks Moe!....now i'm really depressed :'(... ;)

 Don't get me started Dave,  I've been living on this rock for over 3/4's of a century,  always made my home not 10 miles in either direction from where I was born,  at one time I knew just about everyone in the area,  today I know very few, most don't know me,  and most all don't give a crap who their neighbors are,  the area kids aren't bad, at least not destructive, but they don't seem to know the meaning of the word Respect, not even for themselves let alone those around them,  and even the adults are different,  they can be friendly but are also quick to get hostile at the least little perceived provocation.
 When I was younger I knew the why of most things and if I didn't I could figure it out pretty quick,  my mind is still sharp, but nothing is predictable these days,  seems no one is happy with anything,  there's even a bunch of supposedly educated young people in congress who are trying very hard to take a perfectly good country and turn it into a socialist third world crap hole state,  ain't there enough of those places around that they could live in without busting their a$$es ruining this one ?
 Used to be a person gained wisdom with age,  well it seems to me the older I get the less I understand the world around me,  now,  kick your depression,  take the dog for a hike,  LOL.   
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline Moe M.

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #81 on: July 16, 2019, 06:41:10 AM »
Well my wool blanket rolls up into a bedroll just fine and at my age I don't need to worry about long warranty periods.

I do need to worry about where the bathroom is though.   :-X

 LOL,  you still need a bed roll ???
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Survival, when fun turns into serious business.
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2019, 04:36:39 PM »
Thanks Moe!....now i'm really depressed :'(... ;)

 Used to be a person gained wisdom with age,  well it seems to me the older I get the less I understand the world around me,  now,  kick your depression,  take the dog for a hike,  LOL.   
Thanks amigo!....took your advice....i'm much better now! :thumbsup: :cheers:
'At play in the fields of the Lord'
Save a Logger...Eat a Tree Hugger!