Author Topic: "Twilight Zone" paranormal - supernatural - unexplained thread *special rules*  (Read 115705 times)

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Offline xj35s

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ALP Is Astonishing Legends Podcast, the link before. They do a pretty good job of researching before the podcast. They did a great job with Amelia Earhart and Oak Island. I have yet to listen to skinwalker Ranch. That actually freaked them out while doing it.

EP25 is the kidnapped by bigfoot, The Albert Ostman Story

You're right the description does not say clean cut. That may have come from one of the books. It does document the coagulated blood in the description on this page. Detailing all of the bodies post mortem.  Scroll down a bit, there is a lot of very good info on this page.

http://archive.is/kQ5F2

One of the theories I was leaning to was the Mansi Tribe. But they were very helpful in the search. it's stated in the above link that Kholat Syakhl was not a sacred place but was feared and avoided. Why wouldn't they explain that rather than leave us hanging. There is a lot left to suspicion and that's how the govt wanted it. It seems to be very taboo over there to discuss it. In one of the newer podcasts, the two guy's mentioned that they were contacted and warned. They said they have family and children so it's not worth pursuing further. If that's true it lends some credibility to the Western one.
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Okay....I asked that the thread "Tree ID...sort of" be moved to the Twilight Zone. Doh! Can't move a thread to within another thread...so....

It has been moved to:
https://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=14526.msg261404#msg261404

The idea was to continue the analysis of these trees outside the mainstream of the board. May work, may not.
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Offline Orbean

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.

I have a friend that was raised on the Navajo reservation and has some really good stories. He will not actually say the word skin**lker, considers it taboo but he has experiences regarding them. His grandfather was a medicine man and was called out to deal with evil entities. He is very serious about it and will only talk about it when he is around people he trusts.
Nice matters

Offline Old Philosopher

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.

I have a friend that was raised on the Navajo reservation and has some really good stories. He will not actually say the word skin**lker, considers it taboo but he has experiences regarding them. His grandfather was a medicine man and was called out to deal with evil entities. He is very serious about it and will only talk about it when he is around people he trusts.

It's my understanding the "shapeshifters" and "skinwalkers" are two entirely different critters. Skinwalkers are nothin' I wanna fool with!
I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Well...I'm trying to get this stuff into the section where we can discuss it openly.  So I'm shuffling things around you probably already saw in other threads. But here it's visible to everyone under PW's "special rules" for this thread.

This is a ponderosa pine in Oregon that a fellow posted on a FB page I frequent.  He posted two other photos also.  Mysteriously, he has left the group and took THIS photo with him (deleted his post).  I grabbed the other two photos and here they are.







These two photos come from an Oregon backpacking/hiking site.  No consensus there either on what caused this anomaly.





All these Oregon photos are from the general Three Sisters Mountains area, by three different parties.

So I have a theory about what might be the cause, but rather than just throw it out there like a cold turkey in hot oil, I'm posting three links to sort of provide a back story.

 All of these have to do with taking a different look at the Sasquatch/Bigfoot/Forest People phenomenon.
This is not the usual view of "a big hairy mountain ape", or the "I saw a big hairy guy in my headlights" sort of stories.  These books and websites are for people who have had experiences and want to share them in a non-hostile environment.  People who want to understand more about the nature of these beings.

Take your time if you are really interested, and have an open mind.  When you've perused some of this info, drop back here and maybe we can discuss it a bit.

(Not trying to sell the book. Just read some of the reviews.)
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Bigfoot-Ronald-Morehead/dp/0985115157/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524979677&sr=8-1&keywords=quantum+bigfoot

(Listen to this fellow's experience, and you'll get an idea of what we're dealing with.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7psjy8dlgY4

This website (and Face Book Group) were created by one of the growing number of investigators who take a different approach to getting answers.  It involves what's known as 'habituation', and entails interacting with the Sasquatch, or Forest People, rather than hunting them as if they were normal flesh-n-blood animals.
http://www.teamsquatchinusa.com/

Enjoy, or dismiss the idea. Matters not to me.
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Offline randyt

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are they dangerous?

Offline Orbean

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.

I have a friend that was raised on the Navajo reservation and has some really good stories. He will not actually say the word skin**lker, considers it taboo but he has experiences regarding them. His grandfather was a medicine man and was called out to deal with evil entities. He is very serious about it and will only talk about it when he is around people he trusts.

It's my understanding the "shapeshifters" and "skinwalkers" are two entirely different critters. Skinwalkers are nothin' I wanna fool with!

My dad remembers his uncles going out at night with some nambe Indians to hunt evil things, they would not tell him. They would wear their clothes inside out as protection and of course religious medallions blessed by priests, just not any priest but priest that they trusted.
Nice matters

Offline Old Philosopher

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are they dangerous?
There are a lot of different "theys" out there.  Some are (or can be) dangerous, others are probably gentler than most people you meet.  But let's face it, if you come face-to-face with an 8', 800lb "wild man of the mountains" who wants nothing but to be your friend, you'll probably be half way back to town and need a change of shorts before you ever consider the possibility. ;)
That's why understanding who and what they are goes a long way in dispelling fear of them.
There are other entities seeking to stay as far away from humans as possible, and they are not the same species as "Bigfoot".  If they feel threatened, they can respond with lethal force. I believe the Yetis of the Himalayas to be one group of these hominid animals.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.

I have a friend that was raised on the Navajo reservation and has some really good stories. He will not actually say the word skin**lker, considers it taboo but he has experiences regarding them. His grandfather was a medicine man and was called out to deal with evil entities. He is very serious about it and will only talk about it when he is around people he trusts.

It's my understanding the "shapeshifters" and "skinwalkers" are two entirely different critters. Skinwalkers are nothin' I wanna fool with!

My dad remembers his uncles going out at night with some nambe Indians to hunt evil things, they would not tell him. They would wear their clothes inside out as protection and of course religious medallions blessed by priests, just not any priest but priest that they trusted.
I don't be to be crass, but were these priests of the church, or are you talking about talismans given them by shamen?
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Offline randyt

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thanks for the reply. My brother claimed he seen something here in northern michigan. He would never talk about it, not sure what it was all about.  Charlie Ritchie of the backwoodsman magazine is a student of these matters.

Offline Old Philosopher

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thanks for the reply. My brother claimed he seen something here in northern michigan. He would never talk about it, not sure what it was all about.  Charlie Ritchie of the backwoodsman magazine is a student of these matters.
More people than you would imagine have had experiences, and fortunately the stigma of talking about them is starting to dispel.  There are people who have lived with their 'secret' for decades who are now coming forward.

As for "are they dangerous", here's how we can look at the Forest People of North America.  You could be the nicest person in the world, meaning no harm to anyone, but if someone showed up in you house with a gun, threatening your mate and kids, you'd probably become "dangerous" toward them in a heartbeat, right?

Other species of hominds around the world have their own issues.  The Orang Pendek of Sumatra, or the Yowie of Australia both have reputations for being quite disagreeable if you're on their turf.

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Offline madmax

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    Dave Shealy is one of our skunk ape guys down in south FL.  I don't have much experience down there and really don't care to except coastal regions.  He comes off much like a roadside hawker of shrunken heads and mummified mermaids to me.  There was a guy baiting a dumpster down there after he said he saw a skink ape digging around in several times in hopes of shooting it.

    I guess if they exist here,  they would need a huge swamp, like the Everglades, to maintain a breeding population and not have many many sightings.  I am skeptical.   I don't live in the PNW or Tibet so I have to remain open about those sightings.

    And if it gets into the paranormal,  well, all bets are off.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
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Offline Orbean

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Thanks for the link.
Nearly all indigenous peoples have taboos concerning the discussing of the Forest People, Wildmen, et al with outsiders. My investigative partner has made friends with several members of the Crow Tribe, and he still gets stonewalled when he starts asking pointed questions.

I have a friend that was raised on the Navajo reservation and has some really good stories. He will not actually say the word skin**lker, considers it taboo but he has experiences regarding them. His grandfather was a medicine man and was called out to deal with evil entities. He is very serious about it and will only talk about it when he is around people he trusts.

It's my understanding the "shapeshifters" and "skinwalkers" are two entirely different critters. Skinwalkers are nothin' I wanna fool with!

My dad remembers his uncles going out at night with some nambe Indians to hunt evil things, they would not tell him. They would wear their clothes inside out as protection and of course religious medallions blessed by priests, just not any priest but priest that they trusted.
I don't be to be crass, but were these priests of the church, or are you talking about talismans given them by shamen?

Catholic priests
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Offline Mannlicher

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the strange thing about all this silliness to me,  is that with years of 'research' by (self proclimed) highly trained experts,  no proof exists that any of this is true or real.  No verifiable examples, no skin, no fur,  no bodies............. .........nothing.
I suppose if you want badly enough to believe in this conjecture, you will see what is not there, you will trust what is unverifiable, and you will quest after that which does not exist.   :)

Offline madmax

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Mannlicher doesn't care because he can't shoot them in FL.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline Mannlicher

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Mannlicher doesn't care because he can't shoot them in FL.

I'd have no problem IF they were real,  and IF one showed up.  laughing.   You would think after all these years,  at least ONE dead 'crypto' creature carcass would have surfaced. 
Out of a sense of obligation to look at some of Dr. J's 'evidence' on YouTub.  I came away convinced that that guy is crazier than a house mouse.  Seriously.
Space aliens?  Treykons?  The Xanue?  Zorth?  Seriously     ;)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 11:52:46 AM by Mannlicher »

Offline Old Philosopher

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Mannlicher doesn't care because he can't shoot them in FL.

I'd have no problem IF they were real,  and IF one showed up.  laughing.   You would think after all these years,  at least ONE dead 'crypto' creature carcass would have surfaced. 
Out of a sense of obligation to look at some of Dr. J's 'evidence' on YouTub.  I came away convinced that that guy is crazier than a house mouse.  Seriously.
Space aliens?  Treykons?  The Xanue?  Zorth?  Seriously     ;)
Short version: yes, seriously. At least the part about them being interdimensional beings. And Dr. Johnson is only one of many now who have come forward with fantastic stories of seeing these entities disappear before their eyes.  He has simply given a venue for these folks to tell their stories without the usual ridicule.

I have been chasing and studying the habits of these critters (people?) for over 50 years.  Most of my questions involve the same questions you ask:

First of all empirical evidence is the highest form of "proof", at least for those who have had a 1st hand encounter with one. Thousands of sightings during the past 120 years, plus the fact that Native American and 1st Nation members take their existence as common fact. So....

Why has no body been found/produced?
Why do we find tracks (footprints) that start nowhere and end nowhere (sometime in the middle of a road, or beach)?
How does an 800 lb "animal" disappear through heavy brush without a sound?
Why do alleged hair samples always come back "bear", or "inconclusive"?
Why do alleged blood samples tested for DNA always come back "inconclusive" or "degraded/insufficient" sample?
           (As for the last two questions, like the guy said in his encounter video, "I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you what it's NOT."  The simple truth is that no accredited lab will go on record as saying "unknown". They use their own lingo to basically say "we don't know".  When they say "inconclusive", what they mean is that the samples didn't fit any known paradigm.)

Still mainstream science wants to handily dismiss recorded vocalizations, eyewitness reports, physical tracks left by 'something/someone', and don't want to put their delicate reputations on the line.

If we think outside the box, and consider the "paranormal" (which, by definition they are), and also consider the preponderance of evidence that there is "something" out there, then the question remains, what-who-how have they evaded human attention for so long?  The idea that they do not conform to our neat little 3rd dimensional view of physics answers a lot of questions >I've< had nagging me over the years.
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Offline Mannlicher

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not saying that there aren't unexplained happenings.  Not saying that none of these discussed possibilities are totally bogus.  Just saying that until someone finally comes up with a body,  it's all conjecture.  Way too easy to just claim "I saw something".   Too easy to fake footprints,  recordings,  videos and such.  The literature is rife with hoaxes.   A dead body or a capture.  That's what is needed. 

Offline NoseWarmer

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"You would think after all these years,  at least ONE dead 'crypto' creature carcass would have surfaced."

Please forgive me for interrupting, I'm new to this thread but not the topic or subject...

A question to ponder; Just how much of the earth has actually been explored? There are new things being discovered everyday (or not discovered). The PNW has such dense forests along with South America. The Polar Ice Caps hide things along with the deserts.

My uncle had a fishing lodge in Minnesota at the Lake of the Woods, to see 25 yards through the trees was basically impossible.

Again, I have not seen a "Bigfoot, Yeti or any other type being", but I will keep my mind open, just in case I do.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated...

Offline Old Philosopher

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not saying that there aren't unexplained happenings.  Not saying that none of these discussed possibilities are totally bogus.  Just saying that until someone finally comes up with a body,  it's all conjecture.  Way too easy to just claim "I saw something".   Too easy to fake footprints,  recordings,  videos and such.  The literature is rife with hoaxes.   A dead body or a capture.  That's what is needed.
Like I said when I posted the links, it matters not to me if anyone wants to entertain these alternative explanations of the beings' state of existence. I'm not trying to convince anyone. Five decades has taught me that. Most people have a fear factor that prevents them from entertaining anything that falls outside their physical reality. That's fine. That's their comfort zone.

But one reason I've come to believe that "a body" will never be found, nor a "capture" made is because my old belief that these entities were simple flesh-n-blood beings has become a thing of the past for me.  I experienced too many anomalies in their behavior, movements and habits to be explained in my paradigm at the time.  It might sound contradictory, but accepting the possibility that they were not what we thought they were has made the things I experienced understandable.

So here is the Big IF:  If these beings are multidimensional, and their normal state of existence is in the form of light and/or electrical energy, then their elusiveness is beyond just being good at stealth in our physical world. 

Maybe "dimension" is too scary a word. Let's just say that their vibrational frequency is different from ours.  Anyone with high school physics under their belt knows that everything is energy in one form or another.  Ice turns to water turns to steam due to a change in molecular vibration. We can usually see steam, but at even higher frequencies it turns to vapor and eventually we loose sight of it. Did it cease to exist? No, we just can't perceive it anymore.  This is over simplification, but just one illustration.  You can't stick your hand into a table, but you can into a bucket of water.  Lower the vibrational frequency of the bucket water and it becomes ice, and is just  as (sort of) solid as that table.

Now let's imagine these entities can change their normal frequency at will.  They can become "dense" enough for us to perceive them in the 3rd Dimension in which we perceive our entire universe to exist.  They only become "physical" when they want to.  If you try to destroy that manifest physical body (let's say by shooting it), they would probably loose the concentration necessary for them to maintain that physical body and revert to their natural state, i.e. pure energy.  With all that taken into account, we will never find a corpse, or kill one (by conventional means). 

Many eye witnesses have reported these entities (with whom they have become acquainted) appearing inside their homes at will.  Not all of them are 10' giants. Many of the most curious ones who interact with humans are juveniles. 

Like I say, FWIW, YMMV.  Their existence is not dependent upon whether a human believes in them, or not.  We don't need to believe in 'ghosts', Dark Matter, or parapsychology, either.  We have free will.  However, that doesn't mean none of those things exist.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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So let's get back to those inconvenient tree pictures.

Theory:
1)  The Sasquatch/Oh-ma/Bigfoot/Forest People/Xanue are not normally corporeal beings, but who exist in our physical world as forms of energy.  They can change the frequency of their being to a lower range and manifest into our 3rd dimension, and usually choose the appearance of large, hair-covered hominids.

2)  These entities 'rest' inside living trees where they replenish their energy by drawing sustenance from the earth's energy field through the tree root structure.

3)  The phenomenon knowing as "tree knocking" attributed to the Sasquatch is actually "tree POPPING", a sound generated by the entities from within the tree, not whacking the outside of it with something.  It is undetermined yet as to whether this is a communication signaling practice, a warning to intruders, or simply an involuntary result of their increase in energy levels as they 'regenerate'.

Following that Theory, I have a theory of my own.  That the scars we see on these rare trees are actually ruptures of the wood fibers resulting in the audible "knock/pop" sound.

As an interesting side note, it is thought by many that anomalous tree configurations found in some locations are in the form of an "X".  It's undetermined if these are territorial boundary markers, trail markers, or if it's just their version of "Kilroy was here". It is believed in some circles that the "X" refers to the Xanue (pronounced: jaun-OO), the name of the species as alegedly revealed to some people.




It's worth noting that the raised scars on these trees is in the shape of an "X".
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Offline Mannlicher

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giving reasons 'why' crypto creatures can't/won't be found is just kicking the can down the road.

Once you accept theories like  'other dimensions', and " The Sasquatch/Oh-ma/Bigfoot/Forest People/Xanue are not normally corporeal beings, but who exist in our physical world as forms of energy",  then the door is open to believing in anything and everything.  No limits.   
But have at it.  Who knows,  there might be just a grain of fact in there somewhere.   lol


Offline Old Philosopher

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Pragmatism has its benefits, for sure. No worries about an after-life, or cluttering up the mind with other such trivia, and we can concentrate on important stuff like which beer goes best with which pizza. :cheers:
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Offline Mannlicher

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laughing.   Whatever.    ;D

Offline Moe M.

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  Seems I read somewhere that some guy quite a while back really believed the world was round and actually said it in public,  well sir the immediate response from someone in the crowd was  "LOL, Whatever".
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Offline Orbean

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I am not saying I believe in bigfoot but I am not saying I don't. This is a mysterious world that we still know little about. There are credible people who do believe so who am I to doubt them.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Let's try another topic.


Does anyone have any experience with Orgonite?
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Offline xj35s

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Well. My uncle had one he carried. Suffering from seizures and brain cancer. He died.
pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Well. My uncle had one he carried. Suffering from seizures and brain cancer. He died.
Well, they're not supposed to "cure" anything. According to the man credited with discovering 'orgone', Wilhelm Reich, the energy cleans and balances natural elements (air, water, plant life, and affected organisms).  "Orgonite" is a composite of precious base metals (gold, silver, copper) and various crystals.  To over simplify it, orogone energy is basically a "life-force" permeating everything. It gets knocked out of whack by various pollutants, and manufactured 'orgonite' cleanses and restores the balance.


Recognizing and using the strange properties of crystals is not a "New Age" phenomenon.  All the way back to before the Egyptians, crystals, pyramids and other obilisks were thought to have energetic properties.


The main use of orgonite in recent times is to construct "Cloud Busters" and "Chem Busters" to break up pollutants in the atmosphere.

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Online imnukensc

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Snake oil.
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Offline madmax

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Yeah, I am very skeptical of that.

I will say we went to Glenwood Springs in the 80's and felt like we OD'd on valium and muscle relaxants (lithium ya know).  That's as close to a solid, "Man!  I really feel that!" experience as I've come across.  Much greater than say Mt Shasta, Haleakala crater, Stonehenge, Sedona, or Popocatepetl (Mexico).  There was this deep dive in a cave, but I might have mixed my gas a little wanky.  lol.  So after Glenwood Springs we sought out hot springs out west on 2 trips.  There was one similar out of all of them in Canada.  Small and undeveloped but well known.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline NoseWarmer

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This was just brought to my attention this afternoon by my wife, I had never heard of it; https://geektyrant.com/news/apparently-theres-a-dragon-in-iowa
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Offline wolfy

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I hope it hasn't learned how to swim! :lol:
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Offline wsdstan

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Doesn't need to, them dragons can fly.  Death from above you know.

I too think think Orgonite is snake oil without the snake or the oil.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline madmax

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I wish I could see one of these crypto creatures.... there were these fairies once in college.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving pretty with a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke, thouroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, Wow! What a ride!" 
Hunter S, Thompson

Offline NoseWarmer

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I wish I could see one of these crypto creatures.... there were these fairies once in college.

Hell, anymore I think we all see fairies everyday.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Yeah, I am very skeptical of that.

I will say we went to Glenwood Springs in the 80's and felt like we OD'd on valium and muscle relaxants (lithium ya know).  That's as close to a solid, "Man!  I really feel that!" experience as I've come across.  Much greater than say Mt Shasta, Haleakala crater, Stonehenge, Sedona, or Popocatepetl (Mexico).  There was this deep dive in a cave, but I might have mixed my gas a little wanky.  lol.  So after Glenwood Springs we sought out hot springs out west on 2 trips.  There was one similar out of all of them in Canada.  Small and undeveloped but well known.
Interesting observation about the cave dives. Caves are a good place to find all sorts of heavy mineral deposits, including just about any crystalline structures you can imagine. In enough quantity, crystals can affect any person, whether they make the connection to how they are feeling, or not.
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Online imnukensc

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In enough quantity, crystals can affect any person, whether they make the connection to how they are feeling, or not.

I bet 2 or 3 hundred pounds of them on top of me would make me feel like schitt, but I bet I could make the connection as to why.
The universe is made up of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.

Offline Old Philosopher

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In enough quantity, crystals can affect any person, whether they make the connection to how they are feeling, or not.

I bet 2 or 3 hundred pounds of them on top of me would make me feel like schitt, but I bet I could make the connection as to why.


I think you missed the point. :cheers:
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Offline Mannlicher

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orgone?   Ludicrous,  laughable.   Just another in a long stream of unproven, unprovable, scientifically impossible clap trap.  Just my ever so humble opinion of course, although backed up by all verifiable science.   laughing

Offline Old Philosopher

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Just my humble opinion also, but if we (primarily Europeans) hadn't made the Physical Sciences our "god" 1,000 years ago, we might not (as a species) be stuck in the 3D box most of us are in.


If anyone doubts that crystals have distinct properties, just look up Quartz Clocks.
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Offline Mannlicher

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Quartz crystals,  as used in radios and such have real, genuine scientifically proven and predictable properties.  Touchy feely crystals don't. 

were it not for physical sciences, and their understanding and use, we would be living in the stone age.  Now some folks might like that idea,  but not the majority of folks.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Quartz crystals,  as used in radios and such have real, genuine scientifically proven and predictable properties.  Touchy feely crystals don't. 

were it not for physical sciences, and their understanding and use, we would be living in the stone age.  Now some folks might like that idea,  but not the majority of folks.
I don't know what you mean by "touchy feely crystals".  The resonance of any crystalline structure can be measured, just as with quartz. It is not some magical, especially unique form of rock.
You only assume we'd be "living in the stone age".  Modern 'science' didn't have much to do with the design of the Giza pyramids, or any of the others in Meso-America, China, India, etc., nor with pyramids in total.  Neither did was it involved in the design or construction of Gobekli Tepe.  "Modern Science" didn't teach the Ancients how to build retaining walls and dwellings by fitting stones together so perfectly you can't get a sheet of paper between them, even today...and without the use of any mortar or binder.  Nor can "scientists" explain how hundreds of feet of tunnels were excavated within the Great Pyramid, in total darkness, and NOT ONE sign of any soot or burn marks indicating the use of torches is found.


In my opinion, "modern scientific methodology" has been as much a hindrance as a help in our advancement as a species. As soon as it was decided that anything that couldn't be seen, tasted, smelled or touched didn't exist, many of our techniques and knowledge were relegated to the realm of myth and legend.
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Offline Phaedrus

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There's really no such thing as "modern science", just "science".  It's one continuous chain from the first hominids that learned to make fire to the guys running the Large Hadron Collider.  Not an unbroken chain; there have been fits and starts, periods where progress was temporarily lost and points where things didn't advance very quickly.  But it's all one continuous process.  It's absurd to say science can't explain any of those things!  Some of them are very well understood, some have been lost to time.  You need to remember that until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone ancient Egyptian had been extinct for thousands of years.  So their written records were not readable.  And of course many of those records not recorded on stone have not survived.  Incidentally that's an issue that could face future scientists- a lot of our information/data/records today exist only in digital forms that may not be recoverable in the future.  The US Navy has had major problems trying to recover technical information for the older nuclear vessels as it is stored on formats we're not able to read now.

The single silliest thing about the nutty theories about the ancient people is the racist notion that they were so stupid that aliens must have built their wonders.  I think one would have to be pretty stupid not to realize that they had very well honed technologies and methods for dealing with working stone.  After all, it's what they had.  They had only human muscle and human wit yet they accomplished wonders.  No little green men required. ;)

Offline Old Philosopher

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There's really no such thing as "modern science", just "science".  It's one continuous chain from the first hominids that learned to make fire to the guys running the Large Hadron Collider.  Not an unbroken chain; there have been fits and starts, periods where progress was temporarily lost and points where things didn't advance very quickly.  But it's all one continuous process.  It's absurd to say science can't explain any of those things!  Some of them are very well understood, some have been lost to time.  You need to remember that until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone ancient Egyptian had been extinct for thousands of years.  So their written records were not readable.  And of course many of those records not recorded on stone have not survived.  Incidentally that's an issue that could face future scientists- a lot of our information/data/records today exist only in digital forms that may not be recoverable in the future.  The US Navy has had major problems trying to recover technical information for the older nuclear vessels as it is stored on formats we're not able to read now.

The single silliest thing about the nutty theories about the ancient people is the racist notion that they were so stupid that aliens must have built their wonders.  I think one would have to be pretty stupid not to realize that they had very well honed technologies and methods for dealing with working stone.  After all, it's what they had.  They had only human muscle and human wit yet they accomplished wonders.  No little green men required. ;)
I don't even know where to start with this, and it's probably not worth the effort in any case.


It's not "absurd" to say science can look at evidence of lost technology and not explain it.  They can't explain it (or won't) because it doesn't fit in the comfortable little box they've built for themselves.
Nobody said the Ancients were "stupid".  Ask a genius who had never been taught the skills to build a car from the ground up, and he'd look at you like a deer caught in the headlights. Doesn't mean he's "stupid" because he can't do it on his own.
And I really find it revealing to call anything in this conversation "racist".  WTH?
Sure the Ancients were skiled stonemasons, but where are the tools they used? The cutting tools, the sextants, the laser levels and GPS surveying equipment to lay out precise geographical alignments?
Any anyone who still uses the term "little green men" in a derogatory way needs to get up to speed on just who our "neighbors" really are.
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Offline Mannlicher

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OP,  we tend to down play the accomplishments of earlier civilizations.  Folks are probably no smarter today, than they were 5000 years ago.  They pyramids were built by folks using the 'modern science' of that day.  Note also, that virtually all ancient construction was for religious purposes, or for the purpose of self aggrandizement by the rulers.  Little indeed filtered down to the man on the street.
As mentioned previously,  science is  built on what happened , or what was discovered earlier.  A slow journey, since so much was discovered locally,  and lost when the inventor died.  Record keeping is what drives Science.  Well, that and the willingness to use the knowledge.  A hope and a prayer have not done much to further mankind.

Offline Old Philosopher

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OP,  we tend to down play the accomplishments of earlier civilizations.  Folks are probably no smarter today, than they were 5000 years ago.  They pyramids were built by folks using the 'modern science' of that day.  Note also, that virtually all ancient construction was for religious purposes, or for the purpose of self aggrandizement by the rulers.  Little indeed filtered down to the man on the street.
As mentioned previously,  science is  built on what happened , or what was discovered earlier.  A slow journey, since so much was discovered locally,  and lost when the inventor died.  Record keeping is what drives Science.  Well, that and the willingness to use the knowledge.  A hope and a prayer have not done much to further mankind.
Two things to consider. We've been taught (even by Egyptologists) that the Great Pyramid was built as a burial chamber for Emperor Khufu over a 20 year period. That would involve placing 12 blocks every hours, 24/7 (literally...every hour) for 20 years. And that doesn't take into account the stonemasons shaping the blocks at a rate to keep up with construction, not to mention hauling the stone from many miles away.  Add that to the fact that no sarcophagi were found in any of the pyramids. Hummm...


As for slow progression due to local knowledge being lost when the inventor died, how does one explain pyramid structures appearing all over the world (as I pointed out earlier) over a relatively short period in our history?  Or other little inconvenient details like the use of the 卐 (or 卍, both having different meanings) on the Indian subcontinent, S. America and N. America, when supposedly those cultures had no physical contact nor knowledge of each other?
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Offline xj35s

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I have to pitch in here. I don't usually have the time or patience to make a long post as some of you have.

There is a theory of harmonic frequency that is said to be capable of "floating" near anything as it's opposing gravity. I can't remember all the details and can't do a complete post on this as I'd like to. Maybe more Friday.


Most of you Floridians may be aware of this if not you will probably want to check it out. Telekinesis?

Not only did he move 1000 lbs blocks alone during the dark of night, he also moved the finished castle from one to another location.

Google the Coral Castle.

https://coralcastle.com/

pessimist complain about the wind. optimist expect the wind to change. realist adjusts the sails.

Offline Old Philosopher

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I have to pitch in here. I don't usually have the time or patience to make a long post as some of you have.

There is a theory of harmonic frequency that is said to be capable of "floating" near anything as it's opposing gravity. I can't remember all the details and can't do a complete post on this as I'd like to. Maybe more Friday.


Most of you Floridians may be aware of this if not you will probably want to check it out. Telekinesis?

Not only did he move 1000 lbs blocks alone during the dark of night, he also moved the finished castle from one to another location.

Google the Coral Castle.

https://coralcastle.com/
Good reminder, Xj, thanks!  [/size]Edward Leedskalnin was a mystery.  A guy named Irwin wrote a book in the 40's (?) claiming he'd seen Leedskainin using pulleys and levers, but he's the only one ever to make that claim. Leedskainin always worked alone in the dead of night, and come daylight, some new huge stones would appear in place.[/color]
[/size][/color]
I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.