Author Topic: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch  (Read 7036 times)

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Offline Alan Halcon

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Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« on: August 25, 2014, 04:20:11 PM »
I thought some of you may like this really easy tarp ridgline hookup.

Most that know me know I am more a camp loafer more than anything else. Bluntly put, I'm lazy... Call it age. What's that joke about the young and old bull bulls running down the hill?

Anyway, I've never been a big fan of the Evenk (Siberian hitch) and actually it is a rippoff of the Halter Hitch, plain and simple. http://outdoorselfreliance.com/halter-hitch-vs-siberian-hitch/

That said, I quite honestly don't understand the love of the clove hitch when there are better hitches out here.

Personally, as a result of my SAR days, I am a big fan of the tensionless hitch. However, in order to make it more woodcrafty, I came up with this.

http://outdoorselfreliance.com/ridgeline-toggle-hitch/

Please keep in mind, I am not claiming originality, but did engineer it on my own... With as many people as there are on the planet, surely someone has thought of it before me. I did, however, find out canyoneering folks use something similar called a fiddlestick with a stone knot for rappeling. So, if it is good enough for them to rappel with, certainly it can meet the safety of a tarp ridgline.

let me know what you think, I've been using it for a while

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 04:55:52 PM »
Another neat trick for the bag. Thanks for bringing it up.

I've done that several times over the years, starting a long time ago.  Never had a moniker for it, it just seemed like a good idea at the time.  :P
For those who may doubt the strength of that little twig, a 3/16" seasoned hardwood dowel has a shear strength of ~1700 ft/lbs. :shocked:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 05:06:05 PM »
See, OP, I told you you're in my head... er am I in yours? By the way, I've been big into Immanual Kant and love the Socratic way of teaching

At DT14 I did demonstrate this with a small (bout 1/4") twig. I leaned back, full weight, and it held me. OP is right correct. There are opposing forces at play that keep it "straight and square"... It literally takes less than a split second to secure and is GTG

Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 05:15:30 PM »
When I saw the topic I didn't consider the hitch. A great knot and thanks for a refresher course. When I think of a tarp on a ridge line with toggles, I was thinking more like this.





bout the same any way you slice it, but I like your knot. Good post.

Creek
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 05:16:16 PM »
That is a useful knot around the farm.  I use it mostly for tying a line to the back of my ATV rack when I am dragging tree limbs and so forth out of the way. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
(Mark Twain)

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 05:20:12 PM »
See, OP, I told you you're in my head... er am I in yours? By the way, I've been big into Immanual Kant and love the Socratic way of teaching
...

Kant teach dialectics to just anyone... ;)  (Don't you hate really bad puns?)
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 05:43:23 PM »
upthecreek, admittedly, I use that technique with a klemheist, but have never done it like that. How easy is it to slide? I imagine fairly easy by pulling on the toggle at the same time as the tarp?... I like it!

OP, that was pretty dialectic of you, lol

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 05:49:49 PM »
....

OP, that was pretty dialectic of you, lol
We need to take this to The Twilight Zone thread. ;D
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Offline upthecreek

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2014, 05:50:09 PM »
easy as pie Allen. The tension plays a roll but a little practice and the right twist, it's set and tight.

Creek
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2014, 06:48:52 PM »
I'm sure many of you remember this video that Chris showed us in the infamous Poacher's Knot thread, but this thread reminds me of the loop he shows at about 3 minutes into the video.  I read somewhere since, that this very handy loop CAN upset under extreme tension, so I started adding a small toggle to the upper end of it, too.  Ain't no way that thing can upset now! :thumbsup:

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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2014, 07:15:49 PM »
Wolfy, awesome....

I did something similar called the truckie hitch, sans the clove hitch. It was more properly called the wagoneer's hitch but found reference elsewhere first.

both are awesome knots. I have found the clove hitch variation (like you do it) doesn't tend to collapse, like the single hitch I do under a lot of tension, that said, with any static type line it doesn't seem to matter, for this tarpline application.


Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2014, 07:43:05 PM »
If you do a search on www.animatedknots.c om for the 'Bellringer's Knot' under the Sheepshank heading, I believe you will see the main loop knot of your 'Truckie' hitch.  Chris's variation with the two half-hitches around the bight (clove hitch) would stand quite a bit more strain, but to be REALLY secure, I think both of them would benefit from the addition of the toggle, but that's just me......I like the security of the two straps on my bib-overalls, instead of a pair of pants with just a single belt, too! :lol:

BTW, I liked your video, Alan.....very easy to see how you tied both knots! :cheers:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2014, 08:06:44 PM »
Can I play?
This is the vid I did on the Power Cinch knot, which is not a true 'trucker's hitch', but less complicated. ;)  The anchored end it tied with a Buntline hitch.

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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2014, 09:35:43 PM »
Wolfy, I agree on inserting a toggle for greater strength.

Now a days, on the running end I insert a toggle on a larkshead, where the truckers hitch bight would usually be, and wrap the running end around it for cinching, ala truckers hitch.

OP, that Buntline hitch went on like a magic trick... really smooth.

The question begs, after these responses, do any of you or anyone else actually use a clove hitch anymore, for anything? I can tell you I don't. There really is no reason. Even from a rescue standpoint we would use a tensionless hitch. And gawd forbid we attempted to use a bowline knot... We'd have our collective arses handed to us, but that's another story for another day

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2014, 09:52:09 PM »
Clove hitch......hmmm, ??? not really.   The only time I use it anymore is to begin a lashing sequence.  The B.S.A. requires it to pass some of the lashing requirements for completing the Pioneering merit badge and the second class badge requires knowing it, I think.  It DOES lie flatter than the timber hitch under the lashing wraps and looks neater, but other than that, I can't think of any other time I use it. :shrug:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2014, 10:13:10 PM »
...
OP, that Buntline hitch went on like a magic trick... really smooth.

The question begs, after these responses, do any of you or anyone else actually use a clove hitch anymore, for anything? I can tell you I don't. There really is no reason....
Alan, I've been tying that knot since I was about 12-13. I have a thread on here somewhere called Buntline II showing my quick method.  I actually didn't have a name for it until I met Wolfy. Hahaha!

Clove hitch? Yeah...on occasion. Here it is, suspending a 20 pound apple pressing bag to drip, prior to pressing.

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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2014, 10:28:25 PM »
I use a clove hitch to tie my bowdrill spindle into the string for the Egyptian method. I like it because it lays relatively flat against the spindle and is easy to move around if I need to.

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2014, 10:44:43 PM »
Come to think of it, the clove hitch is usually my knot of choice when snubbing the boat off to a post-pier dock if there are no cleats. I tie it slippery... Hell, I tie ever knot I can slippery.  8)
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2014, 11:02:31 PM »
Come to think of it, the clove hitch is usually my knot of choice when snubbing the boat off to a post-pier dock if there are no cleats. I tie it slippery... Hell, I tie ever knot I can slippery.  8)
I spoke too soon, I guess. :shrug:   I use a slippery-clove to tie the hoist-rope off, after the deer is hanging.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2014, 11:18:22 PM »
Come to think of it, the clove hitch is usually my knot of choice when snubbing the boat off to a post-pier dock if there are no cleats. I tie it slippery... Hell, I tie ever knot I can slippery.  8)
I spoke too soon, I guess. :shrug:   I use a slippery-clove to tie the hoist-rope off, after the deer is hanging.
I would rather have been tying a buck off, than a sack o' mushy apples! ;D
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Offline Punty

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2014, 02:01:28 PM »
  Oh my God!

   I've been using a marlin spike hitch to hang my hammock, and trying all kinds of things with my ridgeline, including the tab from a soda can!

  Why the hell didn't I think of this, using a stick hitch on the line?

   Thanks for making me feel stupid... :doh:

    This will be a HUGE help, thanks for bring it to the board.
If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct.
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2014, 04:20:03 PM »
No, no Punty... not about feeling stupid. I used a clove hitch for a long time, then one day saw a dog walker use a carabiner to hitch up the line around an object, then thought to myself why is it us outdoorsmen complicate things. From there, i thought what if I don't have a carabiner and that is what spawned.

This may be shocking to some, but many things I do in the outdoors are not learned from outdoorsman/woodsmen, etc... Those folks tend to be dogmatic. For knots, for instance, I never go to bushcrafters, rather go to climbers and also draw from my rescue experience.

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2014, 04:24:16 PM »
.....and THEY learned them from farmers! :rofl:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_loop
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2014, 04:29:15 PM »
haha. So woodsmen should refer to farmers for knot craft :D

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2014, 04:42:22 PM »
haha. So woodsmen should refer to farmers for knot craft :D
Well, the 'alpine butterfly' DID first appear in an agricultural bulletin, so if the shoe fits. 8)
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2014, 04:54:32 PM »
haha. So woodsmen should refer to farmers for knot craft :D
Well, the 'alpine butterfly' DID first appear in an agricultural bulletin, so if the shoe fits. 8)

The way I look at it is that farmers were figuring out knots to secure 1200 pound horses to 2,000 pound wagons long before people were dangling off cliffs, or topping trees.  ;D
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Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2014, 04:55:44 PM »
haha. So woodsmen should refer to farmers for knot craft :D
Well, the 'alpine butterfly' DID first appear in an agricultural bulletin, so if the shoe fits. 8)

The way I look at it is that farmers were figuring out knots to secure 1200 pound horses to 2,000 pound wagons long before people were dangling off cliffs, or topping trees.  ;D
:cheers:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2014, 05:12:12 PM »
haha. So woodsmen should refer to farmers for knot craft :D
Well, the 'alpine butterfly' DID first appear in an agricultural bulletin, so if the shoe fits. 8)

The way I look at it is that farmers were figuring out knots to secure 1200 pound horses to 2,000 pound wagons long before people were dangling off cliffs, or topping trees.  ;D
:cheers:
And rope wasn't cheap on the frontier, so knots were designed to be untied and rope reused.   ;)
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2014, 05:15:35 PM »
Awesome, OP. That's what I'm talkin bout... Stepping outside the normal classroom and learn fro those that use it everyday... I reckon the wagoneer's hitch (truckie) falls in the same boat.

I believe when Mor's developed the Super Shelter, he studied how Green houses worked. When he studied cold weather survival and living, he learned from those that live it, the reindeer people.

As upsetting as this may be to some, when a survival instructor says a wilderness kit should include a compass, I dismiss it as someone who hasn't put any critical thought into it and walk away... Crikey, you nearly got me on my soap box bout compasses


Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2014, 05:21:45 PM »
Careful there, buddy! :duel:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2014, 05:27:47 PM »
LOL, Wolfy... I fail to make friends with that sentiment. It was more meant as a map is more important than a compass for wilderness travel. Sea and air is a different beast and not a part of this

Offline wolfy

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2014, 05:31:20 PM »
OK, we'll keep playing, then. :cheers:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2014, 05:40:32 PM »
UGGG you really want me to start a new thread on this, don't ya.... I'm tell'n you, it won't be pretty

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2014, 06:01:22 PM »
UGGG you really want me to start a new thread on this, don't ya.... I'm tell'n you, it won't be pretty

It hasn't been pretty in the past. ;D  I'm of the "live by the compass, or forget the compass" school. If you don't start out using your compass when you hit the trail head, it does you no good to pull it out when you're los...er, turned around.

I spent several years in 'mapping, charting and geodesy' in the service, and I have an affection for maps. I also carry a compass in a pocket of my pack, but it's in a vacuum sealed bag and I can't remember the last time I used it.
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2014, 06:14:58 PM »
Further proof, OP, you and I are cut from the same cloth.

I was much the disdain in an online interview with my feelings when DC and his crew were in the room

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2014, 09:38:07 PM »
Awesome, OP. That's what I'm talkin bout... Stepping outside the normal classroom and learn fro those that use it everyday... I reckon the wagoneer's hitch (truckie) falls in the same boat.

I believe when Mor's developed the Super Shelter, he studied how Green houses worked. When he studied cold weather survival and living, he learned from those that live it, the reindeer people.

As upsetting as this may be to some, when a survival instructor says a wilderness kit should include a compass, I dismiss it as someone who hasn't put any critical thought into it and walk away... Crikey, you nearly got me on my soap box bout compasses
I need to add one more knot to my "handy, dandy list".  The sheet bend.  Especially for joining two different sized cords.  I know there are fancier ones, but it's served me well.
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2014, 09:41:59 PM »
haha, OP, I just use an overhand knot for joining lines... Again all camp work!

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2014, 10:10:21 PM »
haha, OP, I just use an overhand knot for joining lines... Again all camp work!
:doh: Buy 'em books, send 'em to school...and they eat the teacher. :rolleyes:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2014, 10:30:31 PM »
told ya, woodcraft aficionados don't like me. I go against the grain with a lot of stuff. Shall i tell you how a ferro rod is a piss poor survival tool?

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: Ridgeline Toggle Hitch
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2014, 11:41:16 PM »
told ya, woodcraft aficionados don't like me. I go against the grain with a lot of stuff. Shall i tell you how a ferro rod is a piss poor survival tool?
It's your thread, do as you like. ;)  And compared to a propane torch, I agree with you.
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