Author Topic: "550" cord  (Read 28589 times)

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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2014, 08:38:30 PM »
Truth be told, my go-to cordage for medium duty chores (ridge lines, etc.) is 80% cotton/20% nylon clothesline rope.  $2.49 per 50 foot hank.
My #2 cordage is butcher's twine. 100% cotton. Besides tying stuff up, it's what I used to make a wick in my deer tallow candles.  At $3.50 per 500 foot roll, I can afford to waste some.  Bank line, or decoy line, or surveyor's twine would be superior in every way, except the cost.

I picked up a 1500' roll of sisal twine at a rummage sale. I HATE that stuff!  It only lasts one season outdoors, and it frays so badly every knot is a "jam" knot!  >:(
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Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2014, 09:10:28 PM »
That's probably why the lumber yards and home centers provide it free of charge to tie loads down with back in the yards.  Most people don't know how to tie anything but wads of double-reverse grannie knots anyway. :P     They untie them with a box-cutter when they get home, anyway. ;D
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2014, 09:17:46 PM »
Did I tell ya my rope story?

An outfitter hires a new kid as a wrangler.  He's working out pretty good, so the outfitter sends him alone up to the high camp to break it down and bring everything back on three pack animals.
When the young fella gets back, he's got all the gear, but the Boss sees one of the pack horses is bobtailed!
"What the he!! happened to that horse's tail?", he wants to know.
The young wrangler tells him, "Well, one of the lead ropes got tangled up in his tail so bad I had to cut it loose."
"So you cut the horses tail dang near off?!"
"Well, the horse can grow a new tail, but you can't grow a good rope."
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Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2014, 09:36:31 PM »
 :deadhorse:........Seemed apropos! :lol:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2014, 09:43:52 PM »
Ol'P, that wasn't exactly what I was trying to convey.....the point being, just one simple knot like the 'Poacher's Knot' can be the foundation for several different knots that have very specific jobs to do.  Being aware of the variations, just widens the possibilities for having exactly the right knot for a specific problematical situation. :thumbsup:

Very true. I wish I had a nickel for every knot/hitch based upon, or incorporating the venerable 'half-hitch'.  ???
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2014, 10:21:22 PM »
With regard to the figure 8 knot, in order to exploit the full benefit of the knot's preservation of tensile strength, it is important to tie it so that the load bearing line takes the outside radius (i.e. the larger radius) through the first turn of the knot.

I found a video here:

http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=295.msg4468#msg4468

Offline SwampHanger

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2014, 03:03:47 AM »
Anymore I carry a few hanks of para and 40' of Amsteel I got in a trade. I won't cut it and it makes hanging a hammock a lot easier as a strap extender. And it's strong.

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2014, 08:51:20 PM »
For a long time I was a type III paracord fan. Then I was a bankline fan for a hot half a second. Then, at DT14 I got 10,000 feet of free type II paracord?3 inner strands. It's all I use now.

I guess what I am trying to say is my giveadamn is broken and will use what ever is put in front of me, I don't care if it's a roll of 99 cent only store blue nylon line, though it's memory sucks, lol

Though this may be sacrilege to many of you, and though I know about 50 knots, I find myself always using a simple overhand for knots, and about four hitches?Larkshead, Klemheist, tensionless, togglehitch.

I'm telling you my giveadamn is broken

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2014, 08:55:46 PM »
Oh yeah?  :shrug:   Well, I know 51 knots! :lol: :cheers:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2014, 09:12:03 PM »
Doesn't matter, Wolfy, because you don't know who I know who knows a whole hell of a lot about nothing... so there! :P

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2014, 09:13:30 PM »
 :hail: :cheers:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2014, 10:20:18 PM »
Oh yeah?  :shrug:   Well, I know 51 knots! :lol: :cheers:

Doesn't matter, Wolfy, because you don't know who I know who knows a whole hell of a lot about nothing... so there! :P

Yeah? Well my giveadamn is more broke than either one of you!  Hell, everything I own is broke.... :-\ :(
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Offline SwampHanger

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2014, 05:52:07 AM »
Great another one! 8)

Offline greyhound352

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2014, 07:05:33 AM »
I use paracord lot more that any other type of rope. I don't think it is that badly priced when you but a roll. Paracord does well in many environments and is easier to untie than bank line.

I do love the amsteel cord for its many awesome features in such a small rope.

If you are looking for an eBay vendor that stocks small cord I would check this guy out. I haven't purchased from him but he is popular with the knot tyiers on other forums.

eBay link ---> http://www.ebay.com/sch/mowfugger/m.html?isRefine=true

Hopfully the link will work I tried to edit out some of the mobile platform lingo.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2014, 08:56:00 AM »
I've used surveyor's twine for quite a few things. It holds up amazingly well over time in the weather. I have a length of it operating the small access door to my chicken coop, and it hasn't needed replacing in about 4 years.
My complaint about small cordage that pretends to be rope (i.e., three-strand twist) is that it frays and separates with constant use.  It is handy, though, if you want to separate the plies to triple the length at the sacrifice of 2/3 the strength.  The twine I use has a tensile strength of 175 pounds, so even a single strand in pretty stout.
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2014, 09:22:46 AM »
Oh yeah?  :shrug:   Well, I know 51 knots! :lol: :cheers:

Doesn't matter, Wolfy, because you don't know who I know who knows a whole hell of a lot about nothing... so there! :P

Yeah? Well my giveadamn is more broke than either one of you!  Hell, everything I own is broke.... :-\ :(

All seriousness aside :lol: there is certainly no topping that other than to say I know a lot of people that are broken.

Okay, all kidding aside. I've found I get more mileage out of teaching people how to use something they already know as part of a system. It makes for a more informative class. if I can spend less time teaching them how to tie a knot, hitch, or bend by replacing it with something they already know, say a simple overhand knot, but use it as part of a system, they get a lot more out of it and walk away with something tangible.

Sometimes I get, WOW, I never thought of doing that before, how easy!

Here's a quick video demonstrating loops and toggles... I use these for everything, including traps



Here's a trap I devised using loops and toggles

« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 09:40:39 AM by Alan Halcon »

Offline OhCanada

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2014, 01:42:45 PM »
I don't get all the fuss; it is like anything else, make sure you buy the real thing and not a copy or knock off. All paracord should come from an American company that also makes it for the military. If you question it, don't buy it.

Paracord is not a climbing rope and there is not much you will need 550# of strength for. 550 is just the rating of one type of paracord, it is not the name for the cord. There is also paracord around the 300# test that packs smaller but has less internal strands.

I do not like the, "Forget paracord, go with bankline", fanboy talk that is all over the internet since Dave talked about it. There is no place for fanboyisms in your survival gear. Buy the right cordage for the task.

Both paracord and bank line have their use, buy the one (or both) that are best for you. Just because you carry paracord doesn't mean that you can't also carry thinner or thicker cord as well for other purposes.
BushCRAFT, it is what you do, not what you buy.

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2014, 02:26:44 PM »
That Spring Snare idea was pretty slick, Alan! :thumbsup:   Thanks for posting. :cheers:
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2014, 02:50:35 PM »
That Spring Snare idea was pretty slick, Alan! :thumbsup:   Thanks for posting. :cheers:

Ditto! Never seen that before. Thanks for sharing here. One of the few truly innovative trigger systems I've seen. :hail:

In all seriousness, one of the problems with setting a snap-up snare for larger animals is anchoring a sapling big enough to trap and hold a strong animal.  Problem solved!  Lessee... all I need now is a 30 foot lodgepole, 1/4" wire rope, and a baseball bat for a toggle. Ah'm loaded fer bear! Hahaha!
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2014, 04:29:53 PM »
OhCanada, I completely agree on the FANBOY FANATACISM. I used bankline because it was new to me and thought, "hm, let me give this a try" I fell out of love with it faster than I lusted after it...

OP and Wolfy thanks...

Truth be told, if you have the components to a figure 4 deadfall, you already have the trigger mechanism?the baitstick, and the angled stick. And actually, that was what I grabbed for when I designed it. In the video, I got lazy and used a fork in the stick

On one of my trapping classes, it took two of us (combined weight of about 350 pounds) to bend over a sapling enough while a third person set the trigger. It truly was an epic launch when we tripped the trigger. It would have taken a kid off the ground easy.

Since the anchor problem is solved, you are now only limited by the strength of the cord

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2014, 04:36:50 PM »
Alan, if that toggle trigger was your own design, double kudos!  :hail:  Way outside the box!

Now, come up with a deadfall trigger that won't take my arm off when the Figure 4 fails.  ;)
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2014, 04:42:57 PM »
OP thank you, it was my own design

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2014, 05:17:36 PM »
Entirely different technique, but it reminded me a bit of the trigger on the Paiute deadfall trap too. :shrug:
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2014, 11:15:52 AM »
That is a slick trigger!

So to avoid using a separate anchor, you are tying the cord to the base of the same tree you use for the spring?

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2014, 01:45:12 PM »
PW, you anchor it to the same tree, or another tree inline of where you want to set the trap.

The more vertical lift the snare can take, the better

Offline Monkee Peterson

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2014, 02:00:22 PM »
   I don't sleep in hammocks and I don't scale cliffs, so anything that looks like 'paracord' and calls itself by that name is fine with me.  we had some pretty good wind last nite with a storm so I checked on my 2-man bass boat that I've had tied upright to the dock for a year with orange string I got from hobby lobby labeled 'paracord.'  that boat is still secured well and the cord looks good, and I'm not gonna worry about it for another year. 
 
    early this summer i set up a small shelter with a cheap tarp to see how long the grommets would hold up in this prairie wind around here.  the walmart 'paracord' held up great but the blue tarp went south in a few days.  I've used that cord for a lotta things and it hasn't let me down yet, so I won't need to buy the real deal as long as I can get a  hundred foot hank of this stuff.  besides, everytime I teach myself a new knot, I forget it before I ever use it, so I rely heavily on the double granny knot, cut it when I need to, and get a new piece of cord.   this method has always served me well, and I recommend it for anyone that's got a pocket knife and 3 dollars for another hank of cord.       
   
   gotta head for the shade, I've got a bucket of Mexican beer iced down and I've put it off long enough.   

Offline Wilderbeast

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #76 on: August 29, 2014, 02:15:57 PM »
 
 I rely heavily on the double granny knot, cut it when I need to, and get a new piece of cord.   this method has always served me well, and I recommend it for anyone that's got a pocket knife and 3 dollars for another hank of cord.       
   
   

This made me smile  :thumbsup:.  Some of us seem to obsess about cutting cord that costs less than a nickle a foot.

Enjoy that cold beer  :cheers:




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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »
At the risk of being controversial, IMHO the mettle of a woodsman, or sailor can be measured by his proficiency with knots, even if it's only 2-3 favorite ones.
 :stir:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2014, 03:53:54 PM »
MP and Wilderbeast, I absolutely agree

OP, what if that person knows myriad knots, but whose giveadamn is so broke, he literally has gone full circle with what's needed with basic camp knots, not rescue, or heavy rigging?

Of course by that I mean me :P

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2014, 04:06:44 PM »
I guess even at this point in my life I'm not to that point yet.
Maybe I'm just that anal, or maybe it's the last vestiges of my 'perfectionism', but it goes against my nature to tie a granny knot when I can tie a square knot, or an overhand loop when I can tie a figure 8 in the same time.

Yeah, when string is pennies a foot, it's no big deal. But if you're making your own cordage in the field, ya might not want to be tying a bunch of "knife knots".

And I've never known, or used a myriad of knots. I can probably count the ones I constantly use on one hand.
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Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2014, 04:13:45 PM »
Bad knots SUCK! :soap:
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2014, 04:25:13 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot

OP, I get that reasoning... Buddy, you just need to let your giveadamn break

Offline Monkee Peterson

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2014, 04:28:20 PM »
   when I worked offshore in the gulf of mexico, I used to work with a buncha sailors, and from what I could see, their definition of 'mettle ' was the quality of their tattoos.  that did, however, remind of a knot I learned there called the wireline knot.  I rememer that one, and still use it to this day to tie up my horse because he knows how to grab and untie a slip knot. 

   that line about 'makin' cordage in the field' made me laff, if I'm ever down to that I hope to hell I see a helicopter comin' to rescue me.  or a buncha sailors.

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2014, 04:35:32 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot


You can see bad knots barely holding tarps and loads in pickups going down the highway.   Bad knots are piled one on top of the other, but have lost their tension allowing the tarps to mimic parachutes or slip to the point of putting loads in danger of going airborne. 8)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 04:47:57 PM by wolfy »
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2014, 04:38:44 PM »
MP, I picked up a lot of flack, because I said cordage is not a "SURVIVAL KIT PRIORITY". I think people are confused with twisting up cordage and just grabbing flexible material and using it for lashing. I never twist up cordage for lashing... what a waste of time. I just grab the stripped fibers and use them as is for lashing

There's been a whole army of DC fanatics who follow the 5cs and call me stupid for not considering cordage a survival kit priority, but think about the last time you saw a survival show and the participants actually packed in cordage... NEVER. Cordage is probably the easiest thing to recreate in the outdoors... Lashing with vines, fibers, roots, etc is super easy... no twisting necessary

Does that mean I don't carry cordage? Of course not, it's convenient, but NOT a survival kit necessity

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2014, 04:40:07 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot


You can see bad knots barely holding tarps and loads in pickups going down the highway.   Bad knots are piled one on top of the other, but have lost their tension allowing the tarps to mimic parachutes or slip to point of putting the loads in danger of going airborne. 8)

gotcha :thumbsup:

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2014, 04:46:22 PM »
MP, I picked up a lot of flack, because I said cordage is not a "SURVIVAL KIT PRIORITY". I think people are confused with twisting up cordage and just grabbing flexible material and using it for lashing. I never twist up cordage for lashing... what a waste of time. I just grab the stripped fibers and use them as is for lashing

There's been a whole army of DC fanatics who follow the 5cs and call me stupid for not considering cordage a survival kit priority, but think about the last time you saw a survival show and the participants actually packed in cordage... NEVER. Cordage is probably the easiest thing to recreate in the outdoors... Lashing with vines, fibers, roots, etc is super easy... no twisting necessary

Does that mean I don't carry cordage? Of course not, it's convenient, but NOT a survival kit necessity
I always considered making strong cordage in the field akin to learning how to sharpen your knife without the aid of a set of stones and guides.  Not something you rely upon often, but a valuable piece of knowledge in the 'mental tool kit'.

IMHO, if a person is carrying every convenience they might need (e.g. sharpening stones, files, metal tent/tarp pegs, yards of cordage) then they aren't really in a 'woodscraft' mindset.
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2014, 04:49:16 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot


You can see bad knots barely holding tarps and loads in pickups going down the highway.   Bad knots are piled one on top of the other, but have lost their tension allowing the tarps to mimic parachutes or slip to point of putting the loads in danger of going airborne. 8)
???  Does that mean my quadruple half hitches finish with a bow knot is no good?   :-\
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Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2014, 04:54:33 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot


You can see bad knots barely holding tarps and loads in pickups going down the highway.   Bad knots are piled one on top of the other, but have lost their tension allowing the tarps to mimic parachutes or slip to point of putting the loads in danger of going airborne. 8)
???  Does that mean my quadruple half hitches finish with a bow knot is no good?   :-\
Not at all....I visualize exactly what you describe.  The ones I'm talking about exist nowhere more than once and are non-repeatable......or they SHOULD be!
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Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2014, 04:57:30 PM »
Wolfy, define a bad knot


You can see bad knots barely holding tarps and loads in pickups going down the highway.   Bad knots are piled one on top of the other, but have lost their tension allowing the tarps to mimic parachutes or slip to point of putting the loads in danger of going airborne. 8)
???  Does that mean my quadruple half hitches finish with a bow knot is no good?   :-\
Not at all....I visualize exactly what you describe.  The ones I'm talking about exist nowhere more than once and are non-repeatable......or they SHOULD be!

I think my daughter took that knot class....:P
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Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2014, 05:01:02 PM »
OP, at the expense of this attempting to look like a spam opportunity, it reminds me of this article, Dude just wrotehttp://dirttime.com/a-survival-kit-what-for

The last line says it all, IMHO

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2014, 05:07:06 PM »
Ok here's a question.

I have a knot tying class next week, so i am asking what knot's and hitches should I teach for "CAMP", not rescue, or seafaring work? Is there any reason why a clove hitch would be superior to the toggle hitch? Is there any reason why a figure 8 is superior to an overhand knot for tying off loops for camp? Is there a reason why a prussik would be superior to a klemheist for tarp rigging?

Those questions aren't meant to challenge rather to educate me. Perhaps there is something I've missed. I am willing to change midstream, but please explain why

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2014, 05:24:04 PM »
Ok here's a question.

I have a knot tying class next week, so i am asking what knot's and hitches should I teach for "CAMP", not rescue, or seafaring work? Is there any reason why a clove hitch would be superior to the toggle hitch? Is there any reason why a figure 8 is superior to an overhand knot for tying off loops for camp? Is there a reason why a prussik would be superior to a klemheist for tarp rigging?

Those questions aren't meant to challenge rather to educate me. Perhaps there is something I've missed. I am willing to change midstream, but please explain why

I'm not a knot expert, so all my knots are basic, and simple. Here's my "kit":

Bowline (end loop preferred by myself over the figure 8, or overhand loop for ease of untying. can be used with Toggle Hitch)
Power Cinch (http://trailmeister.com/how-to-tie-a-power-cinch-2/)
Buntline Hitch (http://bladesandbushlore.com/index.php?topic=8939.msg168005#msg168005)
Clove Hitch (for tying off loads to vertical structures -- like a tree or post)

That's about it. I tie every knot possible "slippery", also, including a bowline on occasion.
I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2014, 05:29:52 PM »
I tend to use the slipped version of the Lapp knot quite a bit.

http://knots-guide.blogspot.com/2008/03/lapp-knot.html
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #94 on: August 29, 2014, 05:31:21 PM »
Awesome, so the power cinch is what I do with a klemheist loop. It gives the same mechanical advantage., but won't jam under load, especially when wet

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #95 on: August 29, 2014, 05:33:03 PM »
Wolfy, is it superior to tying a loop with an overhand for camp? Why?

Offline Old Philosopher

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #96 on: August 29, 2014, 06:06:06 PM »
Awesome, so the power cinch is what I do with a klemheist loop. It gives the same mechanical advantage., but won't jam under load, especially when wet
I'm dense. I don't see the similarity.
I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.

Offline SwampHanger

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #97 on: August 29, 2014, 06:10:36 PM »
Because it's a friction hitch Op. Like a  Valdatain tresse .

Offline wolfy

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2014, 06:17:04 PM »
Wolfy, is it superior to tying a loop with an overhand for camp? Why?
It's just as fast to tie as an overhand, BUT being 'slipped,' it comes undone with a quick tug....I find that feature to be VERY handy.  It's considered to be useful, even in rescue situations.  Works for me. :)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
Augustus McCrae.....Texas Ranger      Lonesome Dove, TX

Offline Alan Halcon

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Re: "550" cord
« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2014, 06:24:12 PM »
HAHA, Swamp Hanger, I actually had to look that up, but yes it is, Just like an icicle hitch.

So, Wolfy, if I carry loops, ala my video, does it matter if the loops can be undone? I carry them like rescue teams carry prussik loops