Author Topic: A dry spot in the river  (Read 296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 376
A dry spot in the river
« on: November 30, 2022, 05:34:57 AM »
Crossed the mighty Mississippi at Memphis heading west after turkey day gathering in GA and NC. About 1/2 of the river bed was dry at crossing. No water traffic at all in the wet.  Not my usual country but the entire area is list as in drought conditions.

If this isn't a wake up call to climate change deniers and human contribution to the problem I don't know what will be. Sometimes science is inconvenient but it is still based in fact.

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9204
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2022, 02:50:21 PM »
Crossed the mighty Mississippi at Memphis heading west after turkey day gathering in GA and NC. About 1/2 of the river bed was dry at crossing. No water traffic at all in the wet.  Not my usual country but the entire area is list as in drought conditions.

If this isn't a wake up call to climate change deniers and human contribution to the problem I don't know what will be. Sometimes science is inconvenient but it is still based in fact.

 Sorry about the drought my friend, you have to accept that it's only Mother Nature doing what She's good at, but if believing that it's everybody's fault that went before you just for living gives you some kind of comfort then by all means keep the lie alive in your mind, it didn't work when it was peddled as Global Warming, it isn't any more believable as Climate Change, I don't think most people deny that the climate is changing just like they don't deny that the world tips on it's axis occasionally, but they don't believe that it's caused by the weight of people migrating from one pole to another, or that the weather is changing because people hold BBQ's, drive fossil fuel powered vehicles, burn coal to generate energy, or because cows have allot of gas issues.
 I know that it's difficult to think that man is not in full control of his environment, but being a western man you should know by now that you can't buck nature, the land, or your environment, you only get by and do well when you learn to adapt to what nature gives you and the environment the Creator provides you with.   
 Just to show you my hearts in the right place Boomer, I thought of sending you a case of Cool Aid mix, but it looks like your a bit short of water to mix it with.   :shrug:   

 Hoping you have a Merry Christmas bud.   :choptree: :cheers:
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 376
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2022, 04:31:18 PM »
Agree man can't buck mature nut that is exactly what we've been doing for a while now. The by products of fossil fuel pumped into the atmosphere is having an appreciable effect on climate to the point of disrupting  disruption not experience by human civilization. Those by products are easily traceable and have been increasing since the early stages of the industrial revolution with exponential increases seen throughout the last 100 years or so.


That is simply a fact. Accept the facts or not, deal with it or not... it doesn't matter. The facts remain unchanged. Not affected by denial regardless of how often repeated and surely unaffected by attempts at humor.

The only thing we can fairly say at this point is the problems we have created will be very inconvenient for those who follow.

To suggest human technology has no effect on climate in the face of evidence proving otherwise is a choice. An unfortunate one but still a choice. I do wonder though how your creator feels about your attitude towards the gifts you so blithely dismiss.  But that doesn't matter either. Right?

And of course, happy holidays to you and yours as well

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9204
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 09:19:01 AM »
Agree man can't buck mature nut that is exactly what we've been doing for a while now. The by products of fossil fuel pumped into the atmosphere is having an appreciable effect on climate to the point of disrupting  disruption not experience by human civilization. Those by products are easily traceable and have been increasing since the early stages of the industrial revolution with exponential increases seen throughout the last 100 years or so.


That is simply a fact. Accept the facts or not, deal with it or not... it doesn't matter. The facts remain unchanged. Not affected by denial regardless of how often repeated and surely unaffected by attempts at humor.

The only thing we can fairly say at this point is the problems we have created will be very inconvenient for those who follow.

To suggest human technology has no effect on climate in the face of evidence proving otherwise is a choice. An unfortunate one but still a choice. I do wonder though how your creator feels about your attitude towards the gifts you so blithely dismiss.  But that doesn't matter either. Right?

And of course, happy holidays to you and yours as well

 Did you mean Nature but, Mature nut didn't make much sense to me, any who, getting back on topic, I've tried to find documentation about climate record keeping during the era of the Industrial Age and as far as I can tell nobody was keeping track of any correlation between the climate and industrialization, or for quite a while after that period in time, so I think science has been pulling your leg somewhere along the way.
 But lets accept that the dumping of fossil fuel biproducts into the environment has had an impact on climate changes, has that not been the case since this rock was formed, I mean decades long forest fires, erupting volcanoes, serious sized animals passing gas continuously for millions of years, Ice ages, great floods causing millions of acres of trees and other vegetation to decompose must have fouled the air pretty badly, and after millions upon millions of years of natures abuse, damned if we aren't still hear after several hundred years of industrialization.
 As far as all that unquestionable evidence that some scientists claim as fact, is it possible that it's not really fact, maybe it's just passion driven theory made up of some indicators fed into computers and molded in such a way as to provide models that substantiate the theory, kind of like most lies that contain a little bit of fact and a whole lot of made up falsities ?
 My Creator, really, isn't he/she the creator of everyone and everything, you see, this is just another indicator of your fear of not being in control of your life and your environment, do you really believe that every life form and this rock that they all reside on is the result of a giant meteor strike and that evolution took it from there, what are the odds that some greater intelligence didn't have something to do with it, are we to believe that the world and all of it's life forms made it this far because of BS luck ?
 My guess is that someday we will all learn the truth of why we existed, but until then I don't question it, if I was meant to understand it I probably would, in the Bible we are told that the Creator provided everything we would need to exist, the earth, water, air, vegetation and all of the animals on it, all we had to do was harvest what we needed, we were also given the gift of free will, have we abused his gifts, I've no doubt, we are imperfect beings ever since Eve talked Adam into taking a bite out of an apple (until we got the idea that we were his/her equal, until we got the idea that we were in control of our own destiny, until we got the idea that we could control our environment, until some of us got too arrogant for our own good.   :shrug:
 And even if we accept that what the scientist claim is fact, what changes would we have to make in lifestyle that would heal the damage already done or halt any future damage, we are experiencing the effects of the Green New Deal already, the economy is tanking, energy is failing, people are having to face not being able to have or afford food, utilities, mads, gas, home heating fuels, and pretty soon massive lay offs, and leftist leader that subscribe to this Climate Change/great reset crap are halting farms across the world from producing food, while science tells us of the benefits of eating bugs, what say you Boomer this is the brave new world that you would have our children inherit ?

Thank you for the good wishes for this Holiday Season, and right back at you.  :cheers:
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 376
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 11:07:11 AM »
One of the great things about our nation is people have liberty to believe in any fairy tale they choose. As Herodotus noted long ago "All men are equally knowledgeable about the divine", which I accept, I don't enter into discussions of this type as long as none are harmed.

Scientific rvidence is gleaned from many sources and is not solely dependent on written sources. The evidence concerning human contribution to climate disruptions is well documented and understood. Predictive modeling has erred only in increasing rates of change not consequences. Accept the evidence or ignore it, claim it is bs or not - it doesn't matter.

 Our global climate is a complex and dynamic system There have been cyclical changes and shifts in the past. Our situation today is unique based on well established information. The eventual consequences of our policies remain to be seen but evidence today does not support business as usual. To that point we accept the results of past volcanic eruptions but our current contributions exceed them and are increasing. Choosing to accept evidence  in one case and not the other questions claims to rationality.

What can we do? Doing nothing is always a choice but there are many interesting options. There is no Green New Deal just a broad proposal to be discussed so there is no effect to date. But the ideas are worth considering.

What we can say is things will be very different very soon. We can already see changes on the horizon. My preference is based on principles of preparednes and reasonable possibilities. Rethinking our current policies is essential. If we choose not to or deny the overwhelming evidence necessity will make them for us.

That is an option but not often a good one.

Offline Moe M.

  • Diamond Stone
  • ****
  • Posts: 9204
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2022, 02:09:33 PM »
One of the great things about our nation is people have liberty to believe in any fairy tale they choose. As Herodotus noted long ago "All men are equally knowledgeable about the divine", which I accept, I don't enter into discussions of this type as long as none are harmed.

Scientific rvidence is gleaned from many sources and is not solely dependent on written sources. The evidence concerning human contribution to climate disruptions is well documented and understood. Predictive modeling has erred only in increasing rates of change not consequences. Accept the evidence or ignore it, claim it is bs or not - it doesn't matter.

 Our global climate is a complex and dynamic system There have been cyclical changes and shifts in the past. Our situation today is unique based on well established information. The eventual consequences of our policies remain to be seen but evidence today does not support business as usual. To that point we accept the results of past volcanic eruptions but our current contributions exceed them and are increasing. Choosing to accept evidence  in one case and not the other questions claims to rationality.

What can we do? Doing nothing is always a choice but there are many interesting options. There is no Green New Deal just a broad proposal to be discussed so there is no effect to date. But the ideas are worth considering.

What we can say is things will be very different very soon. We can already see changes on the horizon. My preference is based on principles of preparednes and reasonable possibilities. Rethinking our current policies is essential. If we choose not to or deny the overwhelming evidence necessity will make them for us.

That is an option but not often a good one.

 Very well said Boomer, however just as all of the of the Climate Change supporters before you and along side of you, you all do a great job of running around screaming that he sky is falling and we must act now or be doomed to suffer extinction, and like Henny Penny, you and all of your persuasion have no specific answer for a remedy.
 Surely you know that Solar and Wind power are not advanced technologically enough to replace fossil fuel produced energy even if it were cost effective, but it's not, and those that believe that it is are not living in reality, consider electric automobiles with their short shelf life batteries, never mind that it takes coal and natural gas to produce the electricity to power their batteries, the batteries today and for the forseeable future have an average shelf life of seven years, and they cost between $20,000.00 and $40,000.00 to replace depending on the make and model of the car.
 So, owners are monitoring their car's batteries and trading in their cars when the batteries are on the wain, but the problem is no one wants to buy a car that is going to need a battery shortly after buying it, so, prices and values are in the tank for these cars, but that's not the end of the story, there's no facilities available for recycling the dead and dying car batteries, so what do we do with them, drop them in the oceans, shoot them into space, pick a national park to store them in maybe ?
 And while this administration supports and pushes this infant technology our country is going broke, our people suffering, and our freedoms being pissed away, but China is getting wealthy while being shored up by Branden and company, and you appear to be a proud champion of their agenda.   :crazy:   
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline boomer

  • Whetstone +
  • **
  • Posts: 376
Re: A dry spot in the river
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2022, 08:33:39 AM »
Reasonable assessment I think. And personal transportation is a good topic for sure.

New technologies  take time to develop. Successful ones can take longer to achieve market viability.  Among the first automobiles were some battery powered models, for instance. They lost out to petro fueled models for a number of reasons.

These days we see an increasing  number of electric vehicles (ev) on our roads and manufacturers large and small are producing them. When Ford and GM are on board the message is pretty clear.

During early modern development of ev limiting factors were range and battery life as you correctly noted.  Range is improving to the 300 to 400 miles per charge. This is similar to petro vehicles  Yet charging times are still an issue. Hybrid vehicles like the Toyota Prius offer definite advantages but are limited by size and clearance. A Prius wouldn't work for me where I live. Unfortunately

The battery issue you cite is also a valid issue. Batteries in ev are evaluated in part  by the number of charging cycles (80/20 is the usual reference) able to produce the required energy to safely and reliably operate the vehicle. What we see today is an ev battery can be repurposed to extend useful life for a pretty long time. The Tesla (Not a fan) after ev use can be used in their residential power wall for a long time as the energy demands are much less for power wall uses. Same battery, different application. When first looking at solar for the cabin 300 to 400 charging cycles was good battery life less than 2 years later 3,000 charging cycles were available at considerably less cost.

So things are moving. We definitely do not however, want to replay the " too cheap to meter electricity" mistakes of early commercial nuclear power though. I hope we've learned a few things since then.  There remains a lot to consider.

That is today. Tomorrow will look different. Current technology development is focused in part on integration of photovoltaic (pv) components into building elements.  Development of pv integration in roofing and glazing for buildings and ev surfaces like hoods, roof and trunks are well underway. 

When we talk about energy production ratings in terms of horse power we're pertly referencing a period that is long past. In the 1960's our nation developed an entire technological sector which enabled us to send men to stand on the moon and return them m safely to Earth. Computing power available then was less than is available in any pocket size Smartphone today.

Our technological abilities have and hopefully will continue to be of great benefit for humanity. We must put them to better uses than we are today to insure we have a tomorrow.

Petro is NOT going away. It is far to useful for far too many necessary things. We need to utilize the resource more responsibly, however.  Blowing it out a tailpipe or tossing it into landfills may have been useful for a brief time but that's no longer the case.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 08:39:52 AM by boomer »