Author Topic: RE: Again with the politics  (Read 991 times)

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Offline Moe M.

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RE: Again with the politics
« on: May 06, 2021, 07:17:46 AM »
  Sorry PW that you feel like there's been more than the usual chatter revolving around politics on this forum, and even at that I have to ask just what defines more than, is it any mention of politics, more than a few posts, more than a few threads that seem to have a political bent ?
  Personally I can relate to your frustration, we have a big family, we've have seven kids, and a bunch of grandkids, and some of them have kids of their own, and that doesn't take in our siblings, we both come from large families, we're all religious in our own individual ways, and we are all are deeply invested in our country, most of us are history buffs, and some of us are even into reenacting and living history.
  But not all of us are on the same same page politically, a few of us tend to lean left (just a few) and the rest of us are allot more to the right,  now we don't all get together at one time very often, a few of us are pretty well spread out geographically which make family gathering pretty darned interesting, however the internet does make it possible for us to visit pretty often as far away as the Pacific Rim, so as you can see we are a pretty diversified bunch, the reason that I can relate so well to your frustration is that my home is kind of a gathering place for our clan and we do entertain informally (that means we don't make formal plans to get together, they just pop in when ever the mood strikes)several times a week, and being who we are the discussions often involve politics,  now, in my opinion and in todays times just about everybody is a political animal, those folks that were once removed from it are not today.
  Sometimes I get so fed up about hearing what "THEY" are doing to us now, that I just want to shout out "Hey, give it a rest, Stop the politics already",  But I don't put a stop to it, I keep quite when it bothers me more than it sometimes does, why, because in todays times everyone is touched and moved adversely by the politics, everything that goes on in ones every day life is politicized, every ones rights are being limited, their movements, their speech, their jobs, even their religion is being impacted.
  Every one is scared about the future, about their personal safety, about their community, their states, and their very country, about the only place that many feel safe and free is when they are among family,  and this forum is for some of us an extension of our families, it ain't like we have a few thousand participating members, this forum has about a dozen members left that post most every day,  most have been members of this family since you guys started it up, most are too old to tramp around in the bush much less do overnighters, and most have been gathering here almost everyday to spend a bit of time with family, us, we are family,  we discuss knives, knots, air guns, and exchange recipes, and sometimes we talk about things that bother us, such as the political climate and it's goings on.
  Stop and consider, do you want to be the guy that tells your family members to Shut UP, don't talk about how external forces are cutting off your free speech, your ability to share a voice of dissent, gag your ability to vent your frustration, or to share a ray of hope, or just feel lighter from getting it off your chest, do you ?
  Will the talk turn into an argument, it could on occasion, but we've had a pretty good track record of being civil on this forum,  will our occasional rants turn off potential new members, it ain't like people are crashing the gates to get in here, is it.
  Will the political talk "draw flies",  it might, but they can be managed or given the boot by our moderators PDQ.

  You have a dozen loyal root members here PW,  don't hold their feet to the fire just for being people who are overly concerned about the world they live in and feel the need to share that concern, and if  you're a member that is annoyed, frustrated, or offended by a thread or even a single post, don't participate in the discussion, it's not hard to ignore a topic that you aren't interested in or that pisses you off, just a quick click of the mouse moves you along.

 Give it some more thought,  it's your family.
In youth we learn,   with age we understand.

Offline madmaxine

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2021, 08:52:44 AM »
If I can learn to scroll down or hit "Ignore" anybody can. 

Don't feed the trolls.

I have a friend on another forum that I've camped with (We Kracs get around some) that has eased off on commenting because a few trolls jump on his every post.  He finally just pm'ed me,

"Tony I still read a lot here but if you need anything pm me."  He is just fed up and it isn't any fun anymore.  He was always entertaining and sometimes provocative in his post.  And like some here, he is an endless source of information for me.

Dad used to say, "A turd in the punchbowl ruins the party."  Two or three is the end of the party.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2021, 09:53:47 AM »
I guess I missed PW's comment and don't know where it is. 

Moe makes sense to me with his post and what Tony says is sure true. 

Politics and religion are two areas where lots of fights start.  Nobody on this forum brings up religion.  Politics slips in easily at times.  There is no interest on my part in listening to the leftists on this forum.  We only have about three and all are on ignore. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2021, 11:29:07 AM »

 Like I said above, I can agree with PW if the political talk gets too loud, too often, or gets too intense,  but when your house is on fire it's kind of hard keep your mouth shut some times.

 That said, I tried to find what ever thread or post set a fire under his back side and couldn't find one that was overboard politically, sadly there's a part of our society that's bent on getting us to hate each other (aka everything that exists in our country is either Racist, offensive, or assaulting to someone, Personally I think it's organized and intended to separate us from interacting with one another intentionally, right down to the masks that we are forced to wear every where we go outside of our homes, while it might be viewed as an attempt to keep down the spread of the virus, what it's also doing is taking away our individuality, making us all look the same,  censoring what we can and can not say and keeping us from assembling is also keeping us from exchanging ideas and notions, I don't like it any more than anyone else,  but I especially like it when we do it to ourselves, and that was my main message.

 To Stans statement, yes we have a few people on this forum that don't agree with the political views of the majority, but they have just as much right to their opinions as we do, and we can disagree with their posts, but they should be allowed to voice them and shouldn't be silenced because of what they say, as long as we keep it civil, we should be allowed to voice our opinions between us on the open forum, if we get too aggressive the mods can cool us off rather quickly,  but we shouldn't be gagged simply because someone doesn't want to hear it. 

 :shrug:
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Offline crashdive123

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2021, 01:25:46 PM »
I would suggest that if you (generic you) want to discuss politics then that discussion belongs in the private section.  It is one of the reasons it was created.

Rules still apply (no personal attacks, etc.).  It is a section of the forum that you have to request access to from PW.  For those that don't want to get in or even see political discussions it's simple ---- don't request access to it.

For many, forums like this are one of the last bastions where they can get away from the day to day toil that they have to listen to.

It's not that politics isn't important - it is.  It just has it's own place on this forum.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2021, 02:13:17 PM »
Moe I agree they can say whatever they want but I can also choose to not listen to their BS. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2021, 03:57:55 PM »
I will just say that most of us have been here for many years, and if you went back through every post we've made here, only a tiny percentage of them have been political in nature, or posted in response to a political post.   But when you look at the post history of a member and it is mostly political posts with a few token bushcraft posts thrown in, it leads me to believe that person has a political agenda for their interaction here; Especially when the time and consideration (and volume of text) in the politically oriented posts demonstrate a much greater care and attention to detail than the halfhearted attempts at actual, topical discussions.

So, like I said, I want everyone to feel comfortable talking about the things that they would around a campfire, but one of the big features of campfire talk is that generally, you don't go camping with people you disagree with.  Here, we are an open forum. 

I have been thinking a lot about how certain changes have occurred in our society, and I think a lot of those changes were brought about by people attacking our society by using our own rules against us.  And by holding us to standards that work well when people aren't actively trying to undermine us.  I think at some point you just have to embrace hypocrisy and understand that the only real rule is self-preservation. 

"Fairness" is an artificial human construct.  I have endeavored to be fair in the past.  Now I will endeavor to preserve what remains of our forum for our long time members, even if taking such actions isn't "fair".  It won't be fair, but it will be effective.

Offline wsdstan

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 05:28:48 PM »
I like the  sound of this.  Thanks PW.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 05:48:58 PM »
Moe I agree they can say whatever they want but I can also choose to not listen to their BS.

   :thumbsup: :cheers:
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2021, 05:50:47 PM »
I will just say that most of us have been here for many years, and if you went back through every post we've made here, only a tiny percentage of them have been political in nature, or posted in response to a political post.   But when you look at the post history of a member and it is mostly political posts with a few token bushcraft posts thrown in, it leads me to believe that person has a political agenda for their interaction here; Especially when the time and consideration (and volume of text) in the politically oriented posts demonstrate a much greater care and attention to detail than the halfhearted attempts at actual, topical discussions.

So, like I said, I want everyone to feel comfortable talking about the things that they would around a campfire, but one of the big features of campfire talk is that generally, you don't go camping with people you disagree with.  Here, we are an open forum. 
I have been thinking a lot about how certain changes have occurred in our society, and I think a lot of those changes were brought about by people attacking our society by using our own rules against us.  And by holding us to standards that work well when people aren't actively trying to undermine us.  I think at some point you just have to embrace hypocrisy and understand that the only real rule is self-preservation. 

"Fairness" is an artificial human construct.  I have endeavored to be fair in the past.  Now I will endeavor to preserve what remains of our forum for our long time members, even if taking such actions isn't "fair".  It won't be fair, but it will be effective.

 Good points all,  I can abide that.   :thumbsup:
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Offline wolfy

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2021, 07:30:03 PM »
The Dude & I both abide! 8) 8)
The only chance you got at a education is listenin' to me talk!
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Offline madmaxine

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2021, 02:57:04 AM »
 :banana: :camp: :banana: :thumbsup:

Offline boomer

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2021, 01:58:48 PM »
Interesting responses on the subject.

I've been reading the site since 2015 or so and observed the comments from the few remaining participants on a variety, albeit a fairly narrow set, of topics  during that time. Of course, the site was far more active in the past but today it is as  it is. To be fair there has always been a lot of political talk. Political talk that was of a distinctly partisan nature while anything vaguely otherwise was and is immediately labeled anathema. This attitude encompasses fact as well as overt propaganda. Regardless of whether the topic of the moment was Merick Garland, equating "race" with intelligence, a 2016 post election celebratory comment that "White men with guns have spoken", the Covid travail and associated disinformation or the recent failed coup attempt in DC when things got quiet the situation has been the same.

It is also fair to say we are as a nation seriously divided. The how and why are complicated but the results obvious and, i believe, far more dangerous then many acknowledge

So the question might be why one would bother engaging on an essentially moribund site?

Not necessarily to change minds-so much or to bear witness to past deeds (although both are important) but simply to demonstrate the fact that differing opinions are possible and exist. When general topics focus on the merits of Folgers coffee (it'll do) the bushcraft discussion will likely be limited.

When no dialogue is permitted on more substantive issues, especially in response to obviously inflammatory partisan political comments, then the public nature of the site devolves   into something much more closely resembling the very divisive mechanism that any cocerned citizen should question. If citizens do not allow a functional level of comity and free exchange of thought and opinion what does that tell us about our society? More,I think, than some here realize.

In the end does it really matter? I'm old and my time is coming just like others of the few remaining regulars. But i want to do what i am able in order to leave a better nation and world to those who follow. So Yes it matters. 

It matters a lot.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 02:04:55 PM by boomer »

Offline wolfy

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2021, 07:23:02 PM »
Not to me....who cares?    I don't participate in these online 'political' discussions anymore.  What's the use......nobody's going to change MY mind on the current status of ANYTHING, and I certainly won't change yours.  So let's just forget it altogether. :cheers:
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Offline wsdstan

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2021, 07:27:52 PM »
I don't know what he said but what you said is how I am going. 
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns  something he can learn in no other way. 
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2021, 08:35:10 PM »
I don't know what he said but what you said is how I am going.

   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup: :cheers:
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Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2021, 08:36:32 PM »
Not to me....who cares?    I don't participate in these online 'political' discussions anymore.  What's the use......nobody's going to change MY mind on the current status of ANYTHING, and I certainly won't change yours.  So let's just forget it altogether. :cheers:

               :hail: :cheers:
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Offline boomer

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2021, 06:52:37 AM »
Not to me....who cares?    I don't participate in these online 'political' discussions anymore.  What's the use......nobody's going to change MY mind on the current status of ANYTHING, and I certainly won't change yours.  So let's just forget it altogether. :cheers:

Fair enough all around.

I can practice restraint as long as others do likewise. Times and people change. 


Offline Mannlicher

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2021, 11:18:44 AM »
there are times when the medicine is worse than the affliction it's supposed to cure.  A pal that runs a huge gun forum with little or no moderation, tells me that 'even the most contentious thread dies a natural death sooner or later'.
I don't understand the need for a super secret double probation private forum for politics.  Just have a separate place to air one's views, and I betcha everyone here would respect and honor that.  Making it closed though in some ways  defeats the purpose.
I freely admit to being a wee bit  to the right of  Attila the Hun's world view.  Shrug.  I don't make a point of pushing that though, at least not here. 

Offline Moe M.

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2021, 03:20:43 PM »
there are times when the medicine is worse than the affliction it's supposed to cure.  A pal that runs a huge gun forum with little or no moderation, tells me that 'even the most contentious thread dies a natural death sooner or later'.
I don't understand the need for a super secret double probation private forum for politics.  Just have a separate place to air one's views, and I betcha everyone here would respect and honor that.  Making it closed though in some ways  defeats the purpose.
I freely admit to being a wee bit  to the right of  Attila the Hun's world view.  Shrug.  I don't make a point of pushing that though, at least not here.

 Good point.   :thumbsup:
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Offline Icepick15

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2021, 09:42:18 PM »

I freely admit to being a wee bit  to the right of  Attila the Hun's world view.  Shrug.  I don't make a point of pushing that though, at least not here.

I believe we could very well be kindred spirits.
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Offline PetrifiedWood

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Re: RE: Again with the politics
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2021, 01:45:47 PM »


But i want to do what i am able in order to leave a better nation and world to those who follow.


Better for whom?

Unimaginative marxist policies can't come up with a way to improve anyone's lives without diminishing those of others.  If the left and the globalists got their way, we would all have a miserable, ignoble existence, but for a few "elites". 

Here's a quote from one of the most "woke" shows on TV. 

Quote
?Better?? I say, in a small voice. How can he think this is better? ?Better never means better for everyone,? he says. ?It always means worse, for some.? ?Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid?s Tale